NLC India Limited ($513683)

Good afternoon. On behalf of ICICI Securities, I welcome you all to the Q4 FY '26 earnings call and investor day of NLC India Limited. Today, we have with us from the management, Shri Prasanna Kumar Motupalli, Chairman and Managing Director; Shri Prasanna Kumar Acharya, Director, Finance; Shri Rajesh Pratap Singh Sisodia, Director, Planning Projects; and Shri Ashok Kumar Mali, Executive Director, Finance. We will start the meet with a brief audio-visual presentation. Can we start the corporate video? [Presentation]

Now I would request CMD sir to start the proceedings with the opening remarks. Thank you, sir.

Thank you, Mohit-ji, for the introduction. And thank you, ICICI Securities, for hosting this investor conference. I also wish to place on record my sincere appreciation to all participants for their interest in NLCIL and to our investors for their continued trust and support. It is my pleasure to address NLCIL's shareholders today and to respond to your questions on our financial results for the quarter and year ended 31st March 2026, as well as to provide an update on our capacity addition program. We value your engagement and constructive feedback, and I look forward to a focused and productive discussion. I am Prasanna Kumar Motupalli, Chairman and Managing Director of NLC India Limited. And I'm joined by Dr. Prasanna Kumar Acharya, Director, Finance; and Shri Rajesh Pratap Singh Sisodia, Director, Planning and Projects, along with other senior members of the management team. At the outset, I wish all the NLCIL team members, investors, and all stakeholders on the occasion of Platinum Jubilee celebration of NLC India Limited. On 20th May, we celebrated Platinum Jubilee celebrations. Before we commence, I would like to briefly present the key highlights and performance of NLCIL for the quarter and year ended 31st March 2026. NLCIL has achieved all-time highest ever annual coal production of 19.14 million metric ton from Talabira II & III OCP. NLCIL achieved all-time highest ever annual coal dispatch of 17.69 million metric ton from Talabira. We achieved all-time highest ever renewable energy power generation of 2.26 billion units. During the financial year, the group has capacity addition made to the tune of more than 1 gigawatt, including thermal 660 megawatt, that is Unit #2 of Ghatampur and renewables 303 megawatt, 300-megawatt solar at Rajasthan and 3-megawatt rooftop in Tuticorin, Ghatampur, and Neyveli. We have achieved an all-time highest ever capital expenditure of more than INR 9,131 crores since inception for the financial year. Pachwara South Coal Block, having capacity of 9 million metric ton has commenced coal production in March 2026. Ministry of Coal has accorded an in-principle approval of mining plan and mine closure plan for New Patrapara South coal mine. CCO has accorded approval for mining plan and mine closure plan of Machhakata revised open cast mine. NIRL has received the letter of award from Solar Energy Corporation of India, SECI, for development of 600-megawatt solar capacity, coupled with 1,800-megawatt hour energy storage system awarded through tariff-based competitive bidding process. As a step towards asset monetization, 7 operational renewable assets of 1.4 gigawatt has been transferred from NLCIL to NIRL. Further, we are in receipt of an approval from Government of India for an alternative mechanism for listing of NIRL through fresh issue of equity shares and disinvestment of NLCIL stake in NIRL through public offering to the extent of 25% of NLCIL's stake in NIRL in the domestic market as per SEBI rules and regulations. We have also received an approval from Government of India for the formation of JV company between NLC India Renewables Limited and National Capital Region Transport Corporation for setting up of renewables project of 100 megawatts in Uttar Pradesh. Today, we got approval from MCA also for the formation of this joint venture. A composite license has been received from the state government of Chhattisgarh for Semhardih Phosphorite & Limestone Block and Raipura Phosphorite & Limestone Block to carry out detailed geological exploration in the block. We got this composite license in record 3 months' time. External commercial borrowing of EUR 100 million has been tied up with KfW Germany. NLCIL share has been traded at exchange at an all-time highest ever market price of INR 387.80 per share on 14th May 2026, with the all-time highest ever market capitalization of more than INR 53,774 crores. Now with regard to key stand-alone physical and financial performance highlights, I'm glad to mention that NLCIL achieved coal production of 19.14 million metric ton compared to 17.20 million metric ton of previous year, registering a growth of 11.28%. Revenue from operations stood at INR 10,864 crores against INR 10,286 crores in the corresponding period of the previous year, registering a growth of 5.62%. Profit after tax is INR 2,525 crores against INR 1,900 crores in the corresponding period of the previous year, registering an impressive growth of 32.90%. Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization, EBITDA, is INR 5,006 crores against INR 4,788 crores in the previous year, registering a growth of 4.54%. Net worth stood at INR 19,270 crores compared to INR 17,465 crores in the previous year, registering a growth of 10.33%. NLCIL had declared and paid interim dividend of 36%, that is INR 3.60 per paid up equity share. Further, the company has recommended for a final dividend of 2.50%, that is 0.25% -- 0.25 per paid up equity share for the financial year '25-26, subject to shareholders' approval. Now with regard to the key group physical and financial performance highlights, I'm happy to mention that the group achieved gross power generation of 28.95 billion units in the financial year '25-26. This including RE power generation of 2.26 billion units, which is all-time highest. We achieved an all-time highest ever revenue from operations of INR 17,490 crores as against INR 15,283 crores in the previous year, registering a growth of 14.44%. We also achieved the all-time highest ever profit after tax of INR 3,769 crores as against INR 2,714 crores in the previous year, registering an impressive growth of 38.91%. Further, we achieved the all-time highest ever earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization amounting to INR 7,475 crores as against INR 6,513 crores of previous year, registering a growth of 14.78%. The net worth stood at INR 21,525 crores compared to INR 18,723 crores of the previous year, registering a growth of 14.96%. The collection efficiency of our debtors for the financial year stood at 100%. With this, I thank all the investors and all stakeholders for the outstanding support to the company. Thank you. Mohit-ji, we can start the question-answer discussion. Okay, we can have a presentation.

Now I would like to request Director Finance for the presentation.

Yes. Good afternoon, everybody. We'll have a small presentation. So I'll just take you through, and then we have a question and answer. So as CMD already told, so this is the revenue from operations, INR 17,490 crores on a consolidated basis and PAT of INR 3,769 crores. We have reached CapEx of more than INR 9,000 crores in this last year '25-26 and the total net worth has crossed INR 21,500 crores. We have paid and declared dividend of 38.5%, including the final dividend recommended by the Board and market capitalization crossed INR 50,000 crores. So this is also -- CMD sir already told that coal production, we have crossed 19 million tonnes and Pachwara coal work has started production in March. So coal dispatch also 17.69 million metric ton last year. And we have received a few tenders through participation in the open tender process by SECI, NHPC, Gujarat, and all these things. So almost 2 gigawatts of renewable capacity tenders we won during the last 6 months period. We have formed 2 JVs in this financial year. Another -- today also, we got an approval for JV with NCRTC. So the renewable production is also 2.26 billion unit last year. So this is about our vision and missions, and we are declaring dividend consistently since last 26 years and profitability we are declaring since last 48 years. So this is the journey up to 2026 in different phases of this company since last 70 years. I'll not go through in details. So this is the pan-India presence of NLCIL across various states. Presently, we have presence in more than 11 states. Recently, we have added Punjab in that list. And by owning 1 tender, BESS tender. Of course, that is not formally done, they have not given LOI, but we appear to be the L1 bidder in that tender. So this is the composition of our Board of Directors. The total shareholders is more than 3 lakhs and the market capitalization as on 31st March, it was INR 48,000 crores, but it has crossed INR 50,000 crores during the month of May -- 14th May, I think, INR 53,000 crores. So we have operational capacity of renewables 1,734 megawatt and the renewable project currently under implementation is around 5,810 megawatt. So out of that, 2.5 gigawatt is already under construction and the balance is under development at various stages. All these things, we have owned through the competitive bidding process and PPA will be signed with respective utilities. This is further through development through joint venture modes also close to 4 gigawatt with Rajasthan, Assam, and other states is in the pipeline. So these are the projects which are operational project, 1.8 gigawatt and under development and construction stage is 5.8 gigawatts. Details of all the projects are there and all the projects are won through competitive bidding process. Next. So by 2030, actually, we have targeted to reach 104 million metric ton of lignite plus coal mining and thermal also, we want to cross 10 gigawatts and renewable also more than 10 gigawatt by 2030. So our equity capital is INR 1,387 crores and Government of India Holding is 72.2%. And total asset value is INR 65,000 crores, INR 65,202 crores. So this is this renewable at work is around INR 38,000 crores, solar plus wind projects of 5,881 megawatts. Energy storage projects in pipelines is around 3,300 megawatts, 500 megawatt in Tamil Nadu, 500 in Punjab and another 800 through SECI recently we won that. So this is the -- this is the details of these projects, which are under construction pipeline and the total estimated value of the CapEx. This is PPA signed for this battery storage with TANGEDCO is INR 700 crores, that Punjab is in progress, and SECI also PPA is yet to be signed. Next. So for diversification projects, we have started this OB to Sand project, which has already started operation. Critical minerals 2 block recently, we won through the competitive bidding process, and we are also targeting for a few other critical mineral blocks in India and abroad. Battery storage also we are taking various projects through competitive bidding process. EV charging stations also, we have installed EV charging station in all our locations, operational locations. And also, we are targeting to expand this further in the commercial mode. Coal gasification, coal and lignite gasifications based on the recent Government of India guidelines also, we are targeting to that also. And green hydrogen pilot project, 4 megawatt, we have already in the process of installation at Neyveli. And based on that successful commissioning, we will further expand it to the next level. So this is the various projects actually, which is under conceptualization, prefeasibility of different projects and review and collaboration with various state utilities. And this is the projects under various implementation stage at various levels. So we are also doing research and development with tie-up with various premier institutes like IISc, Bangalore, NIIT -- IIT Madras, and various other state and central utilities -- and universities for development of almost 13 R&D projects. And based on this initial development, further commercialization of the same will be taken off. These are the research institutions with whom we have tied up for various research projects. Coming to financials. This is the total income, INR 18,467 crores and total expenses, INR 15,000 crores, and profit after tax, INR 3,700 crores. With segment-wise, if you see that mining segment, it is INR 8,795 crores and thermal INR 14,000 crores. Of course, the intersegment adjustment is there. Renewable revenue is INR 726 crores from the existing operational assets. Total asset is 61% and liability is 39%. If you see this overall financials, our expenses is 79% and PAT is 20%. Tax this year is 1% because of some exceptional tax advantage because of transfer of renewable assets to the new company as well as ATI reversals in NTPL, it was there. So debt-to-equity ratio is 1.29. We can leverage up to 2.33. The scope is there for further capital additions, CapEx. Operating margin is more than 22% and net profit margin is more than 20%. Debtors turnover ratio is close to 5x. So this is this financial on the consolidated basis, the same revenue quarter-to-quarter and the annual basis. So 39% increase is there in the PAT on a consolidated basis over the previous year. Next. So EPS is INR 25.40. It has recently based on that market increase also has increased, but this is 31st March figure is INR 25.4, which is declared one. That is 33.28% increase over the previous year. And net worth increase is 11.2%. Next. So return on capital employed is close to 10 and debt-equity ratio is more than 1, 1.29. Capital employed is INR 52,000 crores and dividend this year, including this final dividend proposed by the shareholders, is 38.5%. So this year, PBT and PAT is close by close because of the tax reversals from NTPL as well as NLCIL to asset transfer to NIRL. So around INR 500 crores in NLC to NIRL and INR 800 crores is there in NTPL also, that impact has come. Next. So we have the credit rating from 5 credit rating agencies -- 6 credit rating agencies, the highest credit rating for all our NLC stand-alone as well as for this NIRL also, we have received the highest credit rating from the credit rating agency for their loans. So this is the net book value of the assets in various segments: Thermal, mines, renewables. And the present capacity is 23% renewable and 77% is thermal. So we want to make it 50-50 each by 2030. So this is the total income breakup and EBITDA and EBIT. So that figure, you can see from this, INR 5,097 crores is the EBIT and EBITDA is INR 7,475. This is the industry overview. I need not require to go through all because you know all these things. Next. This is with respect to NLCIL, actually with what about the diversifications we are doing. So all these details we have captured here, various pilot projects and other initiatives. Our capital expenditure mix up to 2030, that capacity is 10,000 each, 50%, 50%. And this growth also, we have captured 1.8 gigawatt to 10 gigawatt and what are the savings is coming in terms of clean power India and how many homes can be powered with these power -- renewable power, how many -- how much coal can be saved with that, all these statistical details are there. So with these renewable movements, so this is the benefit going to come towards our net zero target and reduction in carbon emissions. The projects in pipeline, these projects -- these are the projects which are in pipeline. So South Pachwara coal block already production has started. So the CapEx cost is INR 2,243 crores. Similarly, upcoming projects include Neyveli Mine III, Gurha and Bithnok Mines in Rajasthan, Machhakata and North Dhadu -- Machhakata and Patrapara in Odisha, North Dhadu in Jharkhand. Similarly, critical mineral 2 mineral blocks in Chhattisgarh, we won, that also activity has started. So thermal projects, Ghatampur third unit is likely to be commissioned very soon, maybe this month itself. And Odisha TPS Phase 1, that is 2,400 megawatt activity has started at site. And we are in time -- we are also adhering to the time line for completion by August -- February '31, third unit. Second Phase 2 800-megawatt tendering activity is in process. TPH 2, second expansion tendering activity also in process. Rajasthan Thermal of 375 megawatts. That tender also already has been floated in the tender floated and it is under taking it forward. So renewables also, these are the ongoing projects at different stages and the upcoming projects of all that also, we have gone through the tendering process. Competitive bidding process, we have kept it to around 2,000 megawatts. And pump storage also 750 megawatt in Odisha, that DPR is under preparation. Next. So we are targeting to reach revenue of more than INR 30,000 crores -- INR 37,000 crores by 2030 and profit more than INR 5,000 crores and asset more than INR 1.5 lakhs crores by 2030. And EBITDA margin is close to 50% by FY '30. Next. This regulated equity from INR 19,000 crores, we are targeting to INR 19,000 crores and nonregulated is INR 10,000 crores. Total is close to INR 30,000 crores by 2030. So mine regulated equity will be around more than INR 5,000 crores at thermal more than INR 14,000 crores. Commercial mines also, we have on 3 commercial mines, that also investments will be there. That is not regulated, of course. And renewable also, this investment is close to INR 10,000 crores as equity and other diversification projects also equity investment around INR 400 crores, INR 500 crores is there. The same thing, what are the existing mining and thermal and diversification projects. Next. So we have done this ESG rating from 2 ESG rating agencies: CareEdge and ICRA. So both has given a very good ESG rating overall rating of 61, and 59 by ICRA and 61 by Care and different fronts also, this rating is they have given. So we are also targeting to improve the rating by performing better in this renewable front and capturing all those details whatever required as per the ESG rating requirements. So over and over year-and-year also, we want to improve this rating and to reach at the highest level of rating whatever given for the ESG. Next. So we have presently around 9,700 workforce and out of that 757, close to 8% is women workforce. And we have completed around 32,000 training hours during last year. And our energy man shift -- output per man shift in mines is 18.5 tonne lignite and thermal, it is 37,200 kilowatt hour. So these are the CSR activities. We have INR 48.06 crores CSR expenditure in last year, which has benefited to almost 9 lakh beneficiaries across 3 major states. And our CSR expenditure mostly concentrating on healthcare, education, rural development, administrative expenses, and art and cultures in various parts of the country. So this is our core value and our statutory and other strategy requirements, audit committee, risk management, all this committee are in place. So as per this requirement of SEBI and Companies Act. So this is the various risk aspects, external risk, operational risk, and market risk, which we have analyzed and we have a risk management committee is there, Board level committee and below Board level committee are there. We are -- which are continuously monitoring the risk and evaluating and taking appropriate actions to mitigate the risk. With this, thank you. Thank you very much.

Thank you, sir, for the detailed presentation and insightful presentation. Now I'll begin with the Q&A session. Before you ask question, please mention your name and firm name. Thank you.

I'm Aditya from Axis Securities. My first question is with regard to our revenue projection for FY '27, we are projecting almost INR 25,300 crores of revenue from INR 17,500 crores in FY '26. So if you can -- I mean, if I just do a quick calculation, we are going with 1,000 megawatts of solar additions in FY '27. And apart from that, from thermal side and from mines, we don't have anything substantial. So how is this revenue jumping? If you can just quickly glance through that. And the same for the margins?

Okay. See, in all 3 verticals, there will be an augmentation of production and generation. Mining, we are going to start the production from our Pachwara South coal block. This year, we are targeting more than 2 million metric tons of coal production. In thermal, our Ghatampur Unit #3, the trial operation is on the verge of trial operation. So for the period from now onwards, all 3 units will be available for generation. Similarly, in renewables, solar, almost 1 gigawatt capacity works are in progress, which are expected within the next 6 to 9 months. So with all these things, we hope that whatever projections we are giving here, that will be fulfilled.

So 1 gigawatt solar we are expecting to get installed in FY '27?

Yes.

My second question is with respect to our merchant coal sales volume in FY '26 and any guidance? And if you can provide some revenue and EBITDA number actual for coal division, merchant and lignite both?

Okay. In Talabira, particularly, this time, we sold 12 million -- more than 12 million tonnes of coal through e-auction compared to last year's 7.3 million metric ton. But this time, the rate per tonne is comparatively lesser, slightly. This year, it is INR 987 crores. Earlier it was INR 1,046 crores. So the total sale value is INR 2,517 crores '25-26 compared to INR 2,429 crores in the previous financial year. And the average sale price for total Talabira was INR 898 crores in the '25-26, which was INR 897 crores in the last financial year.

Any guidance for FY '27?

FY '27, we are targeting 20 million metric tons from Talabira and 2 million metric ton from Pachwara. So total 22 million metric ton production will be there. And the revenue will be based on the whatever prices that are derived.

Yes. My question on the current surge of power demand in the country. Currently, the peak power demand is 270 gigawatt. So in terms of utilization of current operating assets, what is the utilization so far in our both renewable and thermal capacity? Okay.

So if you are talking for the last financial year or the current?

Recent.

Recent past, okay. So in the recent past, as per the grid requirement, I think around 1 month back, many of our units were under reserve shutdown, there was -- because there was no demand. But now in last 15, 20 days, there is a huge surge in the requirement. To meet that requirement, all our power stations are operating. And at one point of time, the entire -- all the units of 21, 23 units of NLC were in operation to meet the grid demand. So in the current financial year, almost the plant availability factor of many of the units is more than 80%.

Right. The second, sir, we have recently signed 2 MOUs, one is NPCIL and second is Dhanbad. So can you tell us what kind of capability we want to build and how this will benefit us in terms of revenue generation, profitability over long-term?

As you know, NLCIL always believes in the balanced approach. While adding the conventional capacity, we are always balancing with the renewable capacity and other green initiatives. And in line with the Government of India's mission of 100 gigawatt of nuclear by 2047, we have been trying to associate with NPCIL since long. And finally, it got materialized. So we are going to form a joint venture. And with that joint venture, we will be establishing 700-megawatt nuclear power station. We will be jointly deciding the place of that nuclear power station. And our association with ISM Dhanbad. As you know, we are having an experience of more than 70 years in open cast mining. So to leverage that experience, we have been trying to get critical mineral blocks, which is the need of the hour. So we have been participating in all the critical mineral auctions. And last auctions, we got 2 blocks in Chhattisgarh of Phosphorite & Limestone. And going forward also, we are participating in all the auctions. So the main challenge there is once we mine the raw material for the critical minerals and rare earth elements, the processing of them to convert into the final product is a challenge. In many of the cases, technology is still not available. It is in the experimental stages. So in this context, we are having a tie-up with ISM Dhanbad. So that they will help us in taking forward the exploration work and also the processing of the raw ore to the finished product.

Secondly, sir, last question from my side. Like we projected INR 37,000 crores of revenue by 2030. What share of revenue will come from critical minerals aspect in our data?

I don't think by 2030, any major share will be there from the critical minerals. We are targeting to produce critical mineral ore of 1 million metric tons by 2030. But as on date, we are not exactly sure how much revenue it will fetch us because whatever blocks you have taken, they are in the G3 stage, you have to bring them to G2 and G1 stage and then start the production. So that will take some time.

Let me put it differently, like how much money we are spending for next 5 years on critical mineral vertical per se?

We have not allocated any amount, but it is in the exploration stage, like whatever blocks we got the Semhardih block and Raipura block, there the exploration cost is around INR 15 crores to INR 20 crores each coal block. So because it is in an exploration stage, not much investment is required. Subsequently, once it is proven, then the production stage, then only investment will be required.

I'm Kirtan Mehta from Baroda BNP Paribas Mutual Fund. Could you also highlight the specific projects which will be underpinning growth in revenue as well as EBITDA in FY '28? And what are the status they are at this point of time?

Okay. So the first and most important one is our Ghatampur. In the month of December, we declared COD of Unit #2. And now we are in the verge of the declaring commercial operation of Unit #3. So once that is done, the entire station 1,980 megawatt will be operational. And the -- both the units, the Unit 1 and Unit 2, Unit 1, which was commercial production declared in December '24 and Unit 2 in December '25, both are operating exceedingly well. So we are expecting that once the 3 units are operational and the demand for power also there in that region. So we are expecting that good improvement in the generation will happen. That is first in the thermal point of view. And then the Pachwara South coal block, where we are targeting at present 2 million metric ton, we will be trying to do more than that. And from Talabira also, this time, we are targeting 20 million metric ton. Last year, we targeted 18.5 million metric ton. So this year, we are targeting 20 million metric tons. So that also, there will be increase in the production. And renewables, whatever capacity we are going to add in Khavda, we are going to add 300 megawatt more and other places also, we are going to add. So that also will add to our revenue in financial year '28.

Just a follow-up in terms of Pachwara South block, when do we aim to ramp up to the full capacity of 9 million tonne?

See, as per mine plan, the full capacity of 9 million metric ton will be achieved in the fourth year. But we are targeting to achieve the 9 million metric ton peak capacity in the third year itself. And our Ghatampur thermal power station, the coal requirement will be around 6 million to 7 million metric ton. So the balance will be available for e-auction in the open market. And this being a very good quality coal, it is G10, G11 coal -- grade coal. So there is a huge demand for that coal in that area.

In terms of -- can I also go for a couple of more questions?

Yes.

In terms of the merchant coal volume that we will be selling, what could be the target that can go outside our mines for FY '27 and '28?

Okay. So this Talabira mine, we are targeting a capacity of production of around 20 million metric ton. Out of that, around 3.5 million to 4 million metric tons will go to our NTPL Tuticorin to 500 megawatt. And the entire balance 16 million metric ton will be available for sale. And this will be the case till 2030-31 when the first unit of Talabira thermal power station will be commissioned. So till that time, this will be available for sale in the merchant sale. Similarly, for Pachwara, as I already told, once we reach the peak capacity, there will be around 3 million metric ton for sale in the open market.

Sure. Just last question from my side. Would you be able to give us some sort of EBITDA indication at each of the -- like what kind of EBITDA we make in mining, what would be for our thermal generation and for renewable generation?

Are you talking about the current, the last financial year or future?

Probably last financial year and the forecast for FY '27.

Last financial year, we will be able to tell, but forecast, it may be difficult. And the EBITDA for the mines in the financial year '25, '26 is INR 2,030 crores. Thermal, INR 1,393 crores and renewables, INR 492 crores.

This is Dhananjai Bagrodia from Alchemy. Sir, I wanted to understand a little bit about your critical minerals. When we go for bidding, what is the process? Like is it that we know there's estimated reserves? How -- what cost are we thinking about reserves? And could you just shed some light on it because I mean, it's...

The entire critical mineral auction process is well established, transparent, and is going on very smoothly. And from tranche A to tranche A, a lot of improvements are being done by Ministry of Mines to make it more visible to the participant. Like before the auction process, all the details of that critical mineral block. If it is explored, the correct reserves and if it is not explored, the tentative reserves and all the constraints, the coordinates, everything is published by Ministry of Mines is in their website. So even they facilitate for visiting the area also to understand any challenges and difficulties. And subsequently, we have to quote the premium, which we have to share with the government in case the production happens. So we have to quote on premium.

Okay. So sir, just for example, like the one we won in Chhattisgarh, what were the reserves like? And let's say, us and the next bidder, what was the difference?

Like the Semhardih Phosphorite and the limestone block, which we got there, it is having reserves of 428 million tonnes of limestone. And approximately around 4 million tonnes of phosphorite. And similarly, the Raipura is having 170 million metric tons of limestone and around 15 million metric tons of phosphorite. And as you know, our country is almost 95% depend on imports for the phosphorite.

Okay. And so now in this, is there a royalty rate, like how is or how will it be? What do we have to pay the government for this now?

We got this at 6% premium. So once the production starts, that 6% is to be shared with the government.

On revenue.

On revenue.

Okay. And what are we estimating? What could these revenues be like for this?

So that is very premature to estimate the revenues now.

Hello, [ Dhruv ] this side, from Monarch. I have 2 questions. First is, in this current financial year, the auditors have flagged a going concern issue on the Neyveli mines. So can you help us understand what exactly is this?

Yes. As you know in Neyveli area, 3 years back, we faced a lot of problems for lignite production because of land nonavailability. That was mainly because of diversion of one of the river and land -- critical land, which we were not getting. But with the support from state government, central government, the Paravanar River was diverted permanently. And going forward in the next 25 years, there will not be any problem with this river. And we got around 650 hectares of land at that point of time. So from 2023 May onwards, there is no generation loss on account of lignite availability. Even today, that is the status that as on date, there is no generation loss on account of lignite nonavailability in Neyveli area. Because in the Neyveli area, we are not selling any lignite. We are using only for power generation purpose. So whatever demand is there last year and this year due to subdued demand, the consumption of lignite is also less. But as you rightly said and auditors mentioned this, there are some issues in land acquisition of -- in one of our mines. And because of some election process that was going on, things were not moving. But now most of the issues, we are on the verge of solution, and we will be getting that land. But as on date, because of land, no production is getting affected and no generation is getting affected.

Okay. And for this FY '26, I'm talking about a bridge between FY '25 and FY '26. The net regulatory movement income moved from almost INR 22 crores in '25 -- INR 20 crores, INR 30 crores in '25 to almost INR 900 crores in '26, which is kind of giving that boost on PAT and PBT levels. So how much of this is sustainable in the future? Can we get some understanding in terms of bridge between FY '25, '26 and a sustainable trend into '27, '28?

As you rightly said, whatever orders we got in the FY '26 were -- all the orders were in favor of NLC. And because of that, there is a net regulatory movement of around INR 900 crores. And there are similar type of appeals are already pending with CERC. So if not INR 900 crores, some positive contribution will be there in the next year also from the regulatory movement.

So this INR 900 crores is realized in cash or it is an accrual-based accounting?

Accrual-based accounting.

So when can we expect the cash flow?

So they have some time line of 6 months period before that...

Sorry, I can't hear you.

There is a time line of 6 months period. So before that, that will be...

This is Shaunak Godbole from SBI Life Insurance. So I had some questions on the regulated equity part. The mining regulated equity is around INR 3,400 crores as of FY '26, and it's expected to be around INR 4,580 crores by FY '28, so around INR 1,200-odd crores equity addition. But when I'm roughly calculating the regulated equity addition from Pachwara, it's coming to around INR 670-odd crores. So am I missing something because the total is maybe not matching, because it's around INR 600 crores of Pachwara. So when I'm adding INR 3,400 crores plus INR 600 crores, it comes to around INR 4,000-odd crores, and we have a target of around INR 4,500 crores, so.

Some capitalization is there in other mines also. We are having Talabira also, they will be there and other mines also capitalization will be there.

Okay. And sir, second, on the thermal side, current regulated equity is around INR 9,000-odd crores. So when I'm looking at the breakup, stand-alone is around INR 4,000-odd crores, NTPL is around INR 1,700-odd crores. So what's the difference, around INR 3,300-odd crores?

That is in NUPPL. NUPPL regulated equity is around INR 3,298 crores. So that is a difference.

Okay. But I suppose only 2 units have been commissioned, right, if the total...

But complete capitalization is not yet done. So that will be coming forward once Unit #3 is also...

So if I calculate the total cost is around INR 21,800 crores. And if I calculate our share, it comes to around INR 3,300 crores. So we have capitalized everything.

Capital equity full. Loan has not been drawn.

Okay. And sir, what about the FY '28 target, which is around INR 12,260 crores, the difference which is around INR 3,200 crores. What is that related to?

The third unit of Ghatampur.

Can you just explain me because if I'm calculating the total cost, which total cost is INR 21,000-odd crores, when I'm calculating 30% and 51% NLC share, it comes to around INR 3,300 crores. And currently, we are taking INR 3,300 crores in the...

Actually, in thermal, other activities are also going on our Talabira thermal unit, 300 to 800 megawatt. The activities are in fast progress. FGDs construction is also happening in the NTPL as well as NNTPS. So this will get added. That is difference.

This is Namit Arora from IndGrowth Capital. Sir, I had 2 questions. My first question is that the organization has been transforming in terms of from its mining routes to renewables now on critical minerals, et cetera. So what are you doing to train your leadership team and the next level to keep in step with the changing nature of the organization?

Very good question. As you know, we were the first in the country to add 1 gigawatt capacity solar. When everybody was planning about solar, we installed the solar. And we were the first in the country to add battery storage system in Andaman, which is successfully running. So our team is competent enough to take care of the transformation or transition that is happening. And we formed full-fledged teams. Our renewables team and green initiatives teams are full-fledged are there. And they are competent enough to take forward this transformation into this one.

My final question was on technology and innovation. So it's very heartening to note that you have partnerships with more than 10 very leading academic and research institutions of the country. So if you could provide more perspective on the kind of work you are doing with them, which will help the organization going forward?

The major one which we are talking about, we are having association with more than 13 reputed institutions for carrying forward our R&D activities. We are having a full-fledged research center card and which is doing an excellent job. And the institution is having patents also, lignite to humic acid patent also they are having. And one of the important project that is going on, which is of national interest, the technological evaluation of carbon capture. As you know, going forward, we have to achieve the target of net zero by 2070. At the same time, we are having huge reserves of coal with us. So utilization of coal with in a sustainable manner and maintaining net zero, the carbon capture and sequestration is very important. We are in the advanced stage of process where this carbon capture and sequestration happen in a very cost-effective way. We are in the process of setting up a pilot project in one of our units in Neyveli in association with IIT Chennai so that the trial can be taken there and subsequently, it can be implemented in other units also. Similarly, many activities are going on, like one of the important one, which is on the final stages is converting lignite to semiconductor wafers. That is also in the advanced stage, almost -- we got an encouraging result in the Phase 1 of the study. And now we are in the final stages of the study. So that is also a major breakthrough in the semiconductor industry.

And congratulations on the 70th year milestone.

My name is [ Yusuf Rangwala ]. I'm the shareholder plus -- I'm the very oldest shareholder of your company, sir. Wishing for the 70th, which you mentioned, I'm very happy and very proud shareholder of this company. I'm from Madras. So it is very close to my heart, sir, this company, sir. And I'm seeing your project in film. I'm very happy and I wish our company good luck and you will return in a good dividend and good bonus, sir. Thank you very much.

Certainly.

Sir, I must be. Sir, employee cost has been reducing quarter-on-quarter and year-on-year. What are the reasons for that?

See, NLC was having initially more than 35,000 employees. And now there is a lot of automation, implementation of SAP, HR activities, finance activities, all these activities are being done using the latest technologies. So because of that, our total manpower is less than 10,000. As you know, to compete with the other private companies, we have to optimize the manpower utilization. That's what we are doing for that.

Sir, do you use robots in mining?

No, till now, that is -- we are not using robots in mining. But a lot of automation is being done in the mining. Particularly, we are going -- recently, we are awarded integrated command control system for all the mines in Neyveli as well as all other mines, where all the activities of mining are monitored from a single control room so that the effective mining -- effective and safe mining can happen.

My name is Varun. I'm from Bandhan Life Insurance. We've signed 3 projects on the battery energy storage side. Can you help us understand the unit economics of these operations? And how should we think about ROI and ROE of these investments, if you can help us understand, yes.

So as I already told, we were the first in the country to establish battery energy storage system almost 4 years back in Andaman. Andaman was fully dependent on diesel-based power generation and the entire island, diesel smell was coming. And at that point of time, we established our solar plant along with the battery energy storage system, which is successfully running now. Taking this initiative forward, we are aggressively entering into the battery energy storage system because we believe that for integration of renewables, unless we have a battery storage system, it is very difficult. So we got one order from Tamil Nadu government for 500-megawatt hour. Then we got an order from SECI for 1,800 megawatt hour. And recently, we got an order from Punjab of 600 megawatt hour -- 500-megawatt hour. So now going forward, storage system is going to play a very important role, both battery energy storage system as well as the pump energy storage system. So we are giving importance to both these storage systems. And our 500-megawatt hour in Tamil Nadu, we are in the process of final award of the -- we already awarded the contract. And for any business decision whenever we take, we expect a return of more than 12% ROA. And taking the margins, almost it comes to more than 14%, 15%. In thermal power generation, we get around 15.5% post tax. In mining, we get 14% post tax. Similarly, in renewables also, taking all precautions, we maintain that level of return.

And any time lines that you want to share for these projects?

Yes, all these time -- this 500-megawatt hour that we have to complete in the next 18 months. And similarly, all the storage systems, all the battery energy storage system plant, the maximum time that is allowed is 18 months only, 18 months. So we internally are targeting for much less than that, so that we will complete ahead of schedule.

Got it. And on the solar side, what sort of debt to equity we work with when we bid for projects? And also, we've seen significant aggression in the competitive bidding. So how has been our experience in terms of delivering the targeted ROE in this segment?

See, in thermal power plant, we -- as per the CERC regulations, we follow 70-30 debt to equity ratio. But in renewables, we follow 80-20 debt to equity ratio. And coming to the -- whatever ROA based on which we are participating in different tender, we are getting better margins because when we got the tender because of that time, the modules prices were at higher side and now there is module prices are lower. And also, we are taking all the measures to maximize the generation from these plants. So the initial plants were established with CUF of around 19%, 18% to 19%. But the latest one, which we are establishing in Khavda or which we are going to establish in Rajasthan, their CUF will be more than 30% to 33% using the bifacial modules as well as using the tracking systems. So we are hopeful that whatever estimations we have done, they have done -- we have done conservatively. So we will be getting more margins by improving the operational practices as well as reducing cost by optimization of the design.

ROE profile of solar operations, if you can share?

So that's what I was telling, we are getting minimum 14% is our target.

And let's say, if interest rates were to rise from here, would there be sensitivity to our ROE here because there won't be any pass-through of any rise in the interest rate?

See, any interest rate is always sensitive in the nonregulated equity system. But in -- particularly in our case, whatever financial excellence we achieved in the last financial year. One of the reasons was we rationalized many of our loans. And there was huge savings on account of that, almost INR 1,200 crores interest saving was there. And also, as you all think, already know, we entered into EUR 100 million loan from KfW, which is a green loan and which is at a much lower rate than domestic interest rates. So as you rightly said, there will be some effect will be there, but we are putting all the efforts to reduce that effect by going for soft loans.

Got it. And lastly, on the 8th pay commission, if you can just share broadly what sort of impact do you expect?

See, 8th pay commission is for central government employees. And once that is implemented after few years only that will come to the public sector units. So at this point of time, we cannot predict anything. Once that 8th pay commission recommendations come and are implemented in the government, then we can expect what is the effect on our operations and financials.

Yes. Sir, my first question is on the fixed charge under recovery in Q4 and FY '26, if you can give on stand-alone and consol basis?

Well, I think when you are talking about fixed cost under recovery, I should share with you a good news. This fixed cost under recovery, whenever we were talking TPS-II expansion was the main point of concern of all the investors. We were -- all these years, there was issue in the -- with the technology. And with our initiative, we modified the boiler system in one of the units, unit #1. And the result is that, that unit last financial year achieved more than 90% of availability. That is really a great achievement not only for NLCIL to the entire sector. And against 300 million units that was generated last financial year, this financial year, that unit generated almost 1,000 million units, almost triple the generation we are maintaining. And the unit #2 also, the activities are in fast progress. We are awaiting for the time slot from the grid authorities so that we can start the modification work in unit #2 also. Once that is done, this is -- this is going to be better than any other unit. And coming to the figures, almost last financial year, INR 822 crores was the total under recovery. And this year, it is INR 865 crores. But in terms of the percentage recovery, it was 82% in the last financial year, and it is 86% this financial year. And we are hopeful that with the improvement in our TPS-II and improvement in this TPS-II expansion, we will be able to reduce it to at least half in the first half of the financial year and almost 0 in the entire financial year.

This is Gopal from SBI Life. So last year, we have guided for INR 16,000 crores of CapEx for this year. We have ended up with INR 9,000 crores. So what is the guidance for next year? And where was the miss in this year?

So next financial year, last year, our target was INR 9,130 crores against target of INR 5,000 crores. So next year, the...

Last year you've guided for INR 16,000 crores, CapEx for this year.

Pardon.

You have guided for INR 16,000 crores of CapEx for financial year '26.

Okay. So this '26-27, our CapEx plan is around INR 19,000 crores -- INR 19,722 crores.

And what will be the breakup between renewables and thermal plus mining?

See,'26-27 -- sorry, '26-27, including JVs, our total CapEx plan is INR 23,600 crores. Out of that, power INR 19,722 crores, mining INR 1,490 crores and diversification renewables is INR 2,388 crores.

Okay. And sir, out of this 5,800 megawatts of renewables for that under construction and at various planning stage, how much of this capacity is backed with the land acquisition and transmission?

See, out of the capacity which you are telling, most of the capacity, which we won through competitive bidding process. And most of them are the solar parks. Like our 600-megawatt Khavda, everything is lined up, land is there, like connectivity is there, everything is there. Out of that 300 megawatt, we are going to commission. And last year, we commissioned 300 megawatt in our Barsingsar. There also, we were having both the things. And this 810 megawatt in Rajasthan. We are having the connectivity this is in the scope of Rajasthan that work is going on. And the land is already available. And recently, with the intervention of Honorable Minister for Coal and Mines, the land is also transferred to NLC -- NIRL. So in almost all the projects, the land is not an issue. Connectivity also with the advanced planning, we are applying in advance. So the connectivity is also not an issue. In Assam, we are planning to develop 1 gigawatt, out of which we identified some land parcels for 500 megawatt and 200 megawatt. There also, we identified the land and connectivity applications already in process.

See, the reason I'm asking is because there are a lot of plants which are up and running right now, but waiting for transmission. So is this could be the case for us also. Are we on track?

We take any project after seeing all those things only. We plan it accordingly. Whenever you are connected -- getting -- whenever the plant is getting completed, before that, the connectivity in place. That is always our target. And we are -- till now, we are successful in doing that.

Yes. Sir, as per the projections, the profit -- EBITDA is almost doubling in 2 years or maybe 2.5x in 4 years, but PAT is not moving that. PAT is moving just 30%, 45%. So that means there is a substantial flow for interest and depreciation or taxation because taxation, I'm assuming to be still at 25%. So what is the likely debt profile? And what is the reason for slow PAT growth?

Acharya-ji?

So as I've already told that this year, there was some tax advantage because of this NTPL ATIA reversal as well as the asset transfer from NLC to NIRL. So both impact is close to INR 1,200 crores actually, which will not be there in the future. Going forward, we are targeting to add more capacity in the renewable sectors where returns is not compared to the thermal that is 15%, here around 12%, 13% will be there. So although the capacity addition is up to 10 gigawatt, but overall profitability will not increase to that extent.

So tax will remain 25% from which year?

Sorry?

When will the tax be normal?

Tax number will come next year.

From next year it will be normal.

Any more questions? Okay. So with this, we have come to the close of the proceedings. I would like to thank everyone for attending this Investor Day and on NLC behalf. And thanks to the management for giving us an opportunity to host this event. Note that high tea has been arranged outside. Request you to avail this. Thank you. Thank you for coming. Thank you.

Thank you to all the participants and investors for joining today's investor meet and for your continued support and encouragement to team NLCIL over the years. A standee with the feedback form has been placed in the venue. Participants may kindly fill the form for sharing feedbacks and for any further interaction. I extend my heartfelt gratitude to all our investors for their continued trust and support, which has enabled the company to deliver consistently and outstanding performance. We sincerely look forward to your continued support and association in the years ahead. Thank you once again. Thank you all.