Noah Holdings Limited (NOAH) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Distinguished guests, good afternoon. Welcome to Noah's 2024 Corporate Open Day. I'm the host from the IR team of Noah Lily. Welcome. Today, with us, we have the management, investors, analysts, media and competitors, also the clients representatives. Thanks for your support. Before the start of the event, I'd like to remind you some of the event will be conducted in English or Chinese. [Operator Instructions]. Now just a quick up heads up before the event. Part of -- most part of today's discussion will be in Chinese. So if you need the simultaneous translation in English, please raise your hand and let our staff know. And for those listening through the webcast, you will have the option to choose either the English or Chinese channel. Now, let me introduce you the agenda of the day. We have 3 roundtable discussions about the wealth management demand of the Chinese-speaking net worth clients, our competitiveness and our service. After the roundtable discussion, we will move to the Q&A session. You can [indiscernible] question of your interest to the management team. At the very end, we have arranged a cocktail reception, and you can feel free to mingle and exchange with each other in the relaxing ambience. To show our courtesy and our appreciation for your support, we've prepared you a souvenir, so let us know before you go, at the reception. We will contain some forward-looking statements, that is all eventually confirmed by the disclosed documents. Before the official start, let me give you a few words about the company. We are the preferred wealth management platform for Chinese customer, providing asset and wealth management as a one-stop solution provider. We are also the first company of this kind to be listed in both Hong Kong and the U.S. We have over 400 registered customers. Among them, there is over 10,000 allocated over [ RMB 2 million ]. We provide the service in the major cities in China, Hong Kong, Singapore, U.S. and Japan. In total, we have allocated over RMB 1 trillion assets through Gopher, Olive Asset Management, the AUM surplus is RMB 150 billion, including self-management agent products, the AUA surpassed the RMB 240 billion. We are 21 years old and witnesses the growth from 0 to prosperity of the wealth management industry in China. In 2003, we get started. And in 2010, we get listed in New York Stock Exchange. And 2 years later, we get listed in Hong Kong. In 2012, we entered Hong Kong, in [ 2017 and 2019 ], we entered in U.S. and Singapore. So we have 12 years of international experience. The Chinese enterprises and entrepreneurs are navigating the overseas market. As the pioneer we're helping them get the great potentials and opportunities at the overseas market. We set it up the insurance team in Los Angeles in California, primary product center and Japanese office. We have researching the possibility to set up the office in Canada and Australia and serving the local Chinese clients. This year, we are trying to connect well with the international wealth management industry, Ark, as the major brands, it is the customer interface. It is synonym of 2 traditional wealth management interface. We have the subsidiary brands; Olive and Glory for asset and wealth management. The 3 roundtable discussions will be about those brands, respectively. Last week, we just disclosed the quarter 3 financial statements. Overseas performance is really stunning in the net revenue and the transaction amount surpasses 50% of the whole and the transaction of the PE is over 250. Insurance, also very impressive, we have 170,000 customers as the overseas registered. Core client is over 1,550, the asset manager at the overseas is over 146, AUA at the offshore is accounting 60% accounting total 25.4% of the AUA. We have the 2 clean healthy, strong, resilient balance sheet. The first one is the AUA balance sheet. From the day 1 of our company, we take -- we don't keep the asset pool. No leverage, and we have 120 compliance. We are quite visionary. As early as 2016, we issued the residential real estate, RMB assets and the credit RMB asset. Without those 2 kinds of assets, our AUA is rather clean that help us to move forward easily in the overseas market. The second asset, balance sheet is our own. We have sufficient cash and 0 loan. That's why we can be concrete and strong in moving forward at the international stage. In recent years, we improved the return to investors and share holders. In 2022, it was the first distribution of the dividend and then it's moved up to the special dividend, the total exceeding RMB 1 billion in 2024, except from the regular dividend, we added RMB 50 million buyback quarter. That is our commitment to the shareholders. We have the strong capacity to go abroad, and we have the commitment to help the customer to navigate the international market. In the process, we will find out the demand of the customer and give better service to our customer. What is the competitive advantage of Noah? With those questions in mind, let's move to the first round table discussion on the wealth management demand for the Chinese customer at the overseas market. Let's invite the panelist of the first roundtable discussion. They are Ms. Wang Jingbo, Co-founder and the Chairwoman; [ Mr. Yin Zhe, ] Co-Founder, Director and CEO; Mr. Pan Qing, CFO and CEO of ARK Hong Kong. Ms. [ Yijun Gu ], Deputy General Manager of ARK Global Wealth Management. In the meantime, let's invite the global capital markets person, in charge and the Senior Manager, Ms. [indiscernible], to moderate the session.

Thanks very much, Lily for your introduction of the company. I believe it gives a very clear and a brief introduction to someone who might not be very familiar with the company. First and foremost, I'd like to express my gratitude to the analysts, media friends and investors and our clients. When we're designing the agenda, we had a lot of the discussions on what to be covered and how to cover, that's why we invite all the management team of the company to give you the 3 roundtable discussions and let you know our ideas on the 3 major brands and how we will move forward. I hope through the 3 roundtable discussion, we will give you the updates on the company and give you more details and more fruitful source, probably you have learned that from the video at the beginning of the event. We have updated our brands at the overseas market after private wealth Olive Asset Management, it is the asset management and a Glory family heritage that is the comprehensive heritage program. I'd like to start with -- I'd like to start with Mr. Pan as the pioneer of the upgrading campaign and give us the ideas behind this kind of movement.

Thanks to media friends and institutional investors attending this meeting. This is -- today marks a very private event with investors and media friends as an exclusive occasion. I have been carrying on the idea of the 2 founders. So I'd like to start with my answer, but open for more additions from Ms. Wang and Mr. Yin. This is an upgrading of our brands. It is our commitment of the global strategy as the listed company and the Group, they are unchanged. Ark and Glory are wholly owned subsidiaries of our group. They are consistent with the ideas, the mission of the group. You know the story and the name originated from the Bible, it represents a lot of the wisdom. This boat is designed to go against the changes and the challenges from the flooding, but we've been making the preparation 3,000 years a height of the time. So we like this kind of the forward-looking and long-term view. Noah, as an artist, and he saved 2,000 animals and human beings. So that is showcasing our mission that is to be centered around customer and offer our value, helping them move forward. So apart from the main brand, Noah, Ark is the main overseas wealth management interface and our interface with the clients directly. And as you know, the arch in the Ark, when the flood really approaches us, then the audience want to go on the deck and to see how the flood is moving forward. And then it was sent -- the doves outside, to check out the flooding level. So olive trees represent hopes in the future. So Olive really is embedded with our philosophy of the future wealth growth. As to Glory, is more like a rainbow after the flood recedes. We hope that the Glory can give more -- this glory and victory to our clients, particularly overseas clients. That's why we named these 3 brands like this. This is our brand family. While there is a super logo. Well, internally, we often said this is kind of an involving evolution logo. But actually, it looks like a siloe. So in the -- this kind of a super logo in our family icon, and it's still in the same umbrella of Noah family. And we hope that these sub-brands that we have launched could receive recognition and support from our investors and analyst friends and media friends. Mr. Wang, please?

And welcome to like opening a new account in our company. We'll provide the best-of-class service to you. As you may know that we are dedicated to providing service to the high net worth individuals, particularly the Mandarin-speaking individuals. And we used to focus on the Chinese families located particular based in Mainland China. But after the pandemic, we have seen this trend of globalization of these families going global. So with that footprint going global, we have our plans and expanding our footprint globally as well. And we have built a team of like 400 overseas adviser teams. And we have the client's persona profile investigation. And we have investigated the client structure of those new emerging Mandarin-speaking investors and some of the mature immigrants overseas. So I would like to give the floor to [ Mr. Wang ] to give us an overview your insight on our clientele.

Oh, I see a friend from Korea, you are the Korea adviser. Last year, you have raised a very excellent question. I think it was really good. I'm going to make a better response today. I think it's kind of a new effort or a new step for us to go global. I'm not trying to go back to the business models of 2020 or 2021. So now if we want to benchmark against 2023, when we want to build a whole global strategy, then we need to understand the true underlying needs of our clientele. So that is why we need to make it ahead of schedule. So based on investigation, our main dominating clients are those immigrants or potential immigrants of the Chinese families and Chinese high net worth individuals. Because we understand better of their underlying philosophy, their lifestyle and their thinking. Well -- but the weigh factor of the above-mentioned weighing factor is getting smaller and smaller. So after the pandemic, we have seen this trend that many of the Chinese families have already moved to overseas countries and now they have settled down with their children going to school, and then they want to start a new business in overseas market. So they have already moved to overseas market. And we need to build a localized team to support the service. And our domestic team couldn't support that needs anymore. That is why we would like to build a global service team. And we found the like the mature or the old migrants, they have earned the first bucket gold in China like decades ago, and they try to migrate to other countries, and we have to do the investigation in Germany and France, like they are very distinctive when they want to move abroad, they just build their hotel or bed-and-breakfast inn hotels or they just buy property. So they would like to invest in various or diversified financial services to tackle with the currency or like the interest risks. And we have discovered that many of the clients of ours, they would like to fly to Singapore, fly to Hong Kong to talk with us to understand what we can do to them. And these clientele can build connections to us. Of course, we want to have -- want to develop innovative system to get into their circle, like we need to build a novel connection with the, for example, the Wenzhou chamber of commerce, for example. Well, the question is, if we are capable enough or if we are prepared enough to provide services to those immigrants, while Noah had been in some troubles in China, but we should avoid that kind of troubles of being cheated in a scheme overseas. So we need to optimize the opportunities that we can grasp in the overseas market with better poised capabilities. The first is our product lines. We need to build a more competitive product lines and portfolio lines to provide better services to those emerging immigrants and also the already immigrants. While we need to solve the visa -- work visa application and their children's application and their identity planning, for example. And maybe we need to also cover the insurance planning and also some of the elderly migrants who have a bigger pie of the asset pool and they can endure a higher level of risk. So all in all, we need to have an optimized philosophy or mindset of navigating the portfolio line. So we used to focus on our package in China, which used to be our core capability, has always been our core capability, but also is potentially being achilles heel for the future. That is why we would like to build our overseas capability including hiring the localized RM team, and we need to hire more undergraduate students, fresh graduates, who can like -- have learning curve in our group since they graduated. I have a saying that here -- know, the -- it's a blue ocean for us to see the wealth management of the global Mandarin-speaking high net worth individuals. And this is a blue ocean that represents the new money. But we don't know who is -- who will be the winning provider. Well, Noah always has been the most favorite player. We want to be the most favorite player, and that is the ultimate goal. And Ms. Wang is always very humble and very direct straightforward. Well, I'm very not quite humble, I'm just too straightforward perhaps. Now let's move as to the new emerging Mandarin-speaking migrants, we have iterated our structure, and we have some split-offs of our business sectors. And let me give the floor to Mr. Yin to share with us more on details.

We always -- like Ms. Wang mentioned, we have covered -- we have seen this trend of different shift to different markets. We need to see the shift of our clients' behavior and their preferences. We need to always keep abreast and keep relevant with their dynamics. And against this macro global environment, we found that more and more Chinese families and high net worth individuals are more in clients who have strategic allocation of their assets. They pay more emphasis on this, particularly like the enterprise -- entrepreneurial clients, it's kind of an important part of the total asset allocation. And that's what we can do. It's quite a fluctuating environment in China in the recent years. And we -- against this backdrop, we want to provide a very solid and stable returns to our investors and to our clients. That is why we need to build a strategic planning in advance. So -- that is why we have launched this plan of releasing biannual CIO report every half year. We would like to upgrade and update our CIO reports with optimized strategies released and shared with our clients, and with more diversified options and investment portfolios. So we have this whole structure and guidance in place to navigate our asset allocation for our clients. And like Ms. Wang mentioned, the core is the capacity building for us in the overseas market in the future. And we need to move fast and move as early as possible and we need to build our network in the overseas market. The core is if we -- whether we are capable enough to provide a service to overseas clients, and that is the biggest part of our work here. And that's why we have built different and various BUs, business units overseas. So we used to only have Gopher Asset Management to have global allocation. But now we have built 3 independent BUs, Ark, Olive and Glory for the overseas markets. First is the Olive that is more focused on the asset management. So in the recent years, we have built our in-house platform or ecosystem we have built internally, to manage our assets and wealth. So we have this well-connected network with our investment partners. So a few years back, we have deployment in Hong Kong. And in 2016, we have deployment in U.S. So since 2019 and since the pandemic, we have already started to like aim for the highlights of the overseas market. And the first thing we did is to build a platform for overseas market. So we would like to kind of adapt our internal in-house ecosystem to the overseas market. So last year, including this year, as you know that U.S. market is the most significant market in the global asset allocation. So we have this product center localized, and it's in just its infancy. [indiscernible], we have equipped this essential with very high-quality management covering both the primary, the secondary, the PE market. Later on, we will have the dedicated roundtable on those services. Because of the very capable personnel, we gave sufficient preparation and build up the readiness for the customer and offer them sufficient offerings of products for selection. Glory, I'd like to see a few words on that. It's designed to offer global solutions for household, familyhood and lifestyle. Previously, it was providing the insurance service domestically, but now we rebrand ourselves to provide the household facilitations in all aspects. For those personnel moving -- moving to the overseas market or places that require the very comprehensive services related to their life, their education, their finance management. So we provide the very comprehensive service that will cover every aspect of their demand, and we are building up this kind of strength and capacity to do a good job. Speaking about the specific business, and we set it up the online platform, which is catered for the Chinese speaking or Chinese clients at the overseas. You know Chinese people are very keen to apps on their cell phone. It's a part of their life already, which is also true for those in the overseas market. So the iARK is the app we developed that delivers our product. It is the technology platform with a lot of investment on R&D. And also, that brings us to be closer with the customer by offering the online service. I believe, in the future, it will provide more support and release more capacity in serving the client. I might spend a bit more time. Operation and overseas capacity in those regards are just the basics, but what we want to highlight is that, first, is the transparency of investments lets the customer know what they have invested. Second, the comprehensiveness that -- of this, whether we can offer the customer the comprehensive allocation of portfolio in a single glance. That's why, at this moment, for every client, we offer them support from the big data perspective, consolidate all their investment data, they can get the access of the allocation of investments with Noah at every pieces at every corner of Noah, so they can get everything at the single place and we can even offer the underlying insight from this data consolidation. I don't dare to say that we are the pioneer in this regard. But as we hear from the customer, we are comparatively the best one compared with other Chinese banks. So that is the authentic customers' feedback. It's very trustworthy. Whether it's good or not, just set up the account with us and have a try, you will see how brilliant it is. So the door is open to you. Set up the account on iARK and Olive and also Glory. And all of those services are available for you. I think the secondary -- the big shareholders at the secondary market, they actually started to approach us with our Thailand team, and they keep trying different services we provided at the international expansion, we are making the best out of the strength from the domestic market. But I believe there are certain -- various certain challenges. First, we need to be adaptive to the different customer, different culture, different market, and we need to adapt our talent team, our management to make us to be a part of the ecosystem. And it requires a rather long time of endeavor. Probably, I'm a bit rationale. I'm not that optimistic. The second generation of those customers, they are speaking English. They have international visions. Like my children, probably they don't need the service provider like us. They get the information from the engine -- from the English -- from the English media. So that's why I feel it is a bit nervous. I don't think the system is really advanced yet. So we don't have the English interface yet that could cater the demand of the second generation of our clients. So we are not yet the best. We can serve the old money or the aged people -- rich aged people. But for the young people, they are growing up in those families. Probably they don't have the decision-making power at this moment, but I'm quite nervous. I have the concern on this kind of emerging trend. So I'd like to reserve my surprise yet, and it keeps me awake at the night because myself won't purchase any financial products from my website, from my app. Why? Because they think this kind of the app, Noah's products are quite outdated and it belongs to the grandpa's and the father's generation. That's why the technology team in the future will be relocated to the overseas market. Now they are based in Shanghai and Shenzhen. In the first step, it will be relocated to at least Malaysia to set the international steps. We have 10 years to go to improve our capacity, that's why, on the contrary of Mr. Wang, I'm really confident. So I think the share price is affordable enough, though it's dropping, but we are buying back, that is the bottom opportunity to buy. You can really find out Ms. Wang's confidence on the buy -- buy campaign. Now I think I found from many customers and to clients, Hong Kong is one of the important stop in the international journey of our clients. That's why I'd like to invite Mr. Pan. Mr. Pan is also the CEO of Ark and Mr. Goh is in charge of the Hong Kong office, Mr. Goh is also in charge of the wealth management of both Hong Kong and Singapore also the sales of the wealth management products in those places. I'd like to open the floor for 2 of them and let them give us some insights, some local insights from Hong Kong. Hong Kong office contains Ark, Olive and, Glory. So we have a couple of the floors in this building. That's why the office is serving the functions of the 3 brands and Yixin is mainly serving for the wealth management.

Dear investors, media and partners. Good afternoon. I'm Goh Yixin. I'm a bit nervous actually to speak at here because this is my first Corporate Open Day. Though our company just setted up the annual event for our core clients in Hong Kong, but as what has been mentioned by Mr. Pan, this is my first year to relocate from Hangzhou to Singapore. And then I moved to Hong Kong. Though I have been working in this industry for over 30 years, and I've been in this company over 10 years, but I'm still pretty new for the overseas business? And I'm also developing myself on the overseas business. I'm leading the ARK team in Hong Kong with over 115 team members on team ARK. The major target that is to build the products and accumulate the client base. We have over 7,000 clients from the international market. They are mainly transferred from the Mainland market, but we need to build more channels through our efforts in the -- in the past 2 years, we built up our RM team. In the Hong Kong office, locally, we have 12 years of experience, but this team, RM team, has only been here for 2 years, for those over 100 of them are licensed financial practitioner. Though I'm still pretty new to Hong Kong, but I get a huge benefit from the local policies like the immigration schemes, high-quality talents. I joined the immigration forces through those immigration scheme of Hong Kong Government. I think some of the stuff of Noah, they are representing the profile of our potential client base. I joined in the quality immigration scheme in Hong Kong as early as the policy launches. So we have various means that opens the doors to some of our customers to relocate in Hong Kong. That boosted us the confidence. Second, the education system here is really resilient. There are 5 universities among the top 100 and more people pursue the further education or pursue the basic education for the second generation in Hong Kong. So they get in Hong Kong through the education tracks or education channels. Third, I think Hong Kong's freedom give a boost of confidence and the tax scheme and the stamp duty removal for purchasing properties are also boosting the confidence for the customer in the Mainland China. The ARK team is mainly responsible for the transferred business from the Mainland China, but our more important task is to go abroad. Most of our customers are doing the overseas importing and exporting businesses. Some of them have -- have set it up their overseas account in Hong Kong and the asset management account way earlier than us. So we have a good client base in the Tier 1 cities. We have the team there serving them, and we need to do a good job in serving the new demand from them at the overseas market. That's why we are working closely with the private bank, both in Hong Kong and in many other places. In the recruitment process, 1/3 of us come from the Mainland who are seasoned managers. Second, 1/3 of them come from the private bank. Locally, they have been serving private bank customers with profound experience. And then we also recruit the fresh graduates from the top 100 universities of the world. So we can transfer the sound practices from the senior team members, so this kind of the metrics give us the very nice strength and played out the different -- very nice strength of different -- of the Thailand. The immigration scheme and the immigration are the emerging things in Hong Kong. That's why we need to focus on those immigrates. And people have been asked what will be the top task for Ark next year. I think the top priority for us is to enhance the comprehensive capacity as a private bank and serve the Chinese-speaking customer in a better way. We are a part of the client base. We represent the profiles of the customer base. We have sound experience in managing the personal wealths in the past 20 years. And we accumulated both the lessons and the sound practices. That's why we can step out the concrete actions in the international market, and we need to cater and to serve better our customers in the asset allocation of the international market. This kind of job is the top priority and also one of the biggest challenges for me in the next 1 or 2 years, that's why I really want your support; media friends, investors and analysts, though we are very committed on the overseas development. And even me, at the rather late stage of my career, I'm still committed and determined to go for the international market. I'm determined to be a part of Hong Kong, to be deeply rooted in Hong Kong. I just rented my house in Hong Kong, and I hope I can spend the rest of my career here. My husband just visited me and will visit me in Hong Kong from time to time to give me the best mentality to stay here.

While I would like to show my support to her, I'm very confident. No, the most important trading. I have belief in her and she used to be the CEO in Zhejiang [indiscernible] Wenzhou, Hangzhou, as you know, are the most important trading centers in China. And since 2019, Noah was trapped in the fraud trouble and our clients show doubts on us, but Ms. Goh navigated this trouble and by showcasing a double-digit growth in our returns and to our clients. So as long as Ms. Goh Yixin is here, we have faith in her business. So we are here serving the most sensitive and most relevant customer base from Zhejiang. They have presence and coverage in Singapore, Hong Kong and Europe. So they have a global coverage and they have a global expertise. And Goh is our big black card account in us. Well, from the perspective of the Hong Kong office, Yixin touched upon the interface with clients. Well, the reason that we have this distinctive connection with our clients in Noah is because we are very similar or we share the mindset with our clients. We are very close knitted. And many of our clients are entrepreneurs, private entrepreneurs in China. If we couldn't keep relevant with those entrepreneurs going global, then how could we better serve their needs. So last year -- that is why last year, we moved from Shanghai to Hong Kong office. I think the first priority for us is to -- we need to be ready and poised to serve the needs of our clients with the capabilities needed. And going global, like moving from Mainland China to Hong Kong is the first step or the semi step of going global to them. And it's a buffer zone or a stepping stone for them, and they are still looking out for overseas opportunities. So our office in Hong Kong was founded in -- for around 12 years now. So now we have this mature structure built up in operation. So in the future, we're going to have office in Singapore, U.S. and booking centers or real estate headquarters in those regions. So our capabilities in -- built in Hong Kong could be replicable in those other markets. So whether it's our ARK talent or ARK capabilities of service or infrastructure experience, these capabilities can all be learned or outsourced [indiscernible] in other markets. Well, if -- when our clients go global, they need to adapt to different environments. But Noah Wealth Management has always been the backbone to support their growing global strategy. And we look forward to more comments from our team -- from other team members. And yes, we have done a lot of investigation in our Chinese markets. And we would like to share this insight with you, particularly our global coverage. Can we move to the map. Well, go back to Mr. Pan, we have done investigation in research in markets like in Japan, Singapore and onwards Australia. Can you share with us your mindset and underlying philosophy of developing your international strategy.

While [indiscernible] is more familiar with this, and she was here last year and she shared with us why we had fluctuations of our performance. Well, we used to have office in Australia and Canada. But back then, our strategy used to be relatively more optimistic or too optimistic. We would make the first move of secure all of the licenses necessary and our operation capabilities lagged behind. And today, we would like to develop a deeper insight in the market in the first place. Well, as you see, the market size in Mainland China is around 3 million households, while the same persona profile in overseas market is nearly 500,000. So in total, it's around 50 million. It's a big scale. Well, a lot of the wealth management companies used to prioritize those migrants who are undergoing this journey of going global, but we would like to also cover the clienteles that have already have roots settled in the overseas market. And we have built the Ark Japan office and in Australia in the future. So based from the market size and the marketing strategy, we expect that our investors, friends and media friends could have a better understanding of our globalized strategy, our international strategy. For example, like in Canada, as a good example here, you actually are Canadian resident, right? Yes. And then you come back and you will do this questionnaire or investigation on the Canadian residents of particularly the Mandarin-speaking Chinese in Canada. So they are more -- well, I would say it's more spoiled, but we could provide more all-around development to them. And those service providers are the main banks. And those smaller banks and the smaller partners can have quick expansion. Well, I won't be too optimistic. this is not more forward-looking comments. Well, actually, I'm a residence in Canada. I sat down with like 20 or 30 potential clients in Canada. And also, I visited some potential competitors, some regulators and peers in Canada. So throughout my investigation, and I found a lot of the clients are old clients, established clients. And we have this 12 hours of time gap. And for the past few years, we have lost a connection with them. That's why I just went on site and introduced in detail our strategy, our global strategy and our product portfolio upgrading strategy. At the end, I felt this underlying need or demand from them. In Canada, the dominating players are the 5 major banks. But these banks won't provide any alternative asset allocation to their clients, particularly in the private banking, they would just provide like mutual fund asset and some of the stock or structural assets, but we are more specialized in PVC, hedge fund assets, primary and secondary assets, all of the alternative assets are in our coverage. We have a full coverage compared with those local service providers. But of course, we need to make greater strides than expansion of our clientele coverage in overseas markets. So these underserved high net worth individuals in Canada and overseas markets should get into our clientele portfolio. So I had already done some investigation of the top players, and we interviewed the CEOs of them, and they could serve those Mandarin-speaking clients. And I think these CEOs just told me that they are less competitive with Noah Wealth Management if Noah really entered their market. But they have established clientele for many years now. So maybe we can discover the opportunities that we can cooperate with them and like tap into that market. So those non-mandarin-speaking market in Canada, we still find a great room to maneuver and to explore this clientele of the high net worth Mandarin-speaking investors. And we think we can keep relevant with them with more offering of our like alternative asset portfolios. So this is the reality that we have witnessed.

Well, I would like to ask, do you like the name of Olive?

Well, some friends love that name. While we used to name ourselves as Gopher, Well, Gopher is also in the story of ARK. And then it's kind of a -- Gopher is kind of a small tree and Olive right now represents a canopy tree. So I hope that represents our expectation. And when we're going to open the Q&A session after the 3 panels, but maybe we still can leave some room and time for a couple of questions here now. But if there is no question, we can just move all the questions to the Q&A session. And then we can have free discussions at the cocktail party as well, and we have QR code for you to raise your questions. Thank you.

Thank you for sharing. It's a long and bumpy road. It's going to be a bumpy and long road to go global. I expect that our endeavor can be reflected in the high performance in the future. And let's move on to the second panel to discuss on our insights on the clients' demand from the management team, and we have our moderator CEO, Mr. [ Lee Ho ] from Olive International, and we have speakers, Mr. [indiscernible] from Olive Asset Management; CEO, [indiscernible] from Olive New York; and also Managing Partner of Olive Partners Management, Mr. [indiscernible]; and CEO, Mr. Wang Fuxin from Olive International; and Mr. [indiscernible], the Director from the Olive Structural Products. And Jeff, the floor is yours.

Thank you for being here at the open day. The last panel is conducted in Chinese, and this panel is going to be conducted in English because our products are majority oriented to overseas market and our working language is more of English. I'm Jeff based in Hong Kong. I'm running the -- so the investment product solutions for Olive. So as the previous panel says, our strength is really in the so-called product solution. But if you look at the products, we focus a lot in the investment -- alternative investment solutions. So that's what we feel we differentiate ourselves with our -- from our competitors. So today, you see people sitting here, everyone -- each one of them is focusing almost at each sector or each asset classes in the alternative investment. So then before I ask every one of them to explain the strategy, let me give people a little bit -- give you guys a little bit update on how we performed last year. So if you look at the chart, from 2023, I mean, now this is only till the end of November. So it's not the full year picture. We see a tremendous growth in the -- in our private market, right? So Andy will talk a little bit more on that and how we achieved such a good result. And then if you look at the hedge fund, also is one of the alternative investment solution, it's a very rapid growth as well. So of course, the total AUM is probably still not really meeting our target, but we hope, but we see the growth, we see the potential. So the potential is really there. And then at the same time, the structured product is something relatively new we introduced last year and also this year. 2023 is almost a structured product is the so-called guaranteed return type of structured product. And this year, we actually opened it up to a little bit more different kind. So we also recently introduced the [indiscernible] as well. So [indiscernible] he will talk a little bit more on that. And then the -- this growth, look at the private market, we see the private credit is a main driver. So as we know, in the past several years, there's a lot of demand on the private credit side. So this is something we capture the opportunity a lot earlier than our competitors. So that's something we would like to highlight. Venture capital doing good. Also the real estate, Roy will talk more about that. And then in the hedge fund side, we see the demand on the so-called diversifier kind of strategy in the portfolio. So the CTA or the trend following is something that we feel our clients will be interested and also they will need to diversify from the equity exposure. And equity long shot, given the strong performance in the market, and then we see the strong demand as well. And then one thing we have done is slightly different compared to before, we emphasize on the total solution or so-called portfolio approach. So instead of selling single product or single strategy of certain -- hot and kind of products, we actually look at the whole portfolio from our clients' asset base. So if a client -- well, this is actually an example, it's not really -- it's not a real portfolio for our clients, but it's an example. So if -- our clients have this kind of investable assets, we separate into 2 asset classes. One is really the low-risk assets. So those are the highly liquid, low-risk assets. And then the other one is the kind of risk assets. So it could be liquid and could be also illiquid products. So with this kind of solution, we see the client will balance -- well balanced with their liquidity, right? So if the client needs liquidity, you have a highly liquid portion. And then also for the longer trend, if they identify to the trend of AI or the other, and then you actually can invest in the long term. So then you see the -- we have a good allocations on the so-called illiquid private market side. And then the liquid alpha or the liquid alternatives, so we have the hedge funds and also the other that generates the alpha to our clients. So overall, we create a very balanced solution for our clients. It's not just chasing for the beta. We have the beta product. We also have a lot of alpha. So then at the end, as our leadership just mentioned, our clients' wealth, I mean, the goal is really obtain or achieve a long-term compound return. So the compound return, as we all know, managing the risk, managing the drawdown is very important. So the alpha actually give them a very steady kind of return stream. So that is really something where we talk to our clients, even though they invest $1 million, $2 million, $3 million, $10 million. So we all talk about -- we approach using this portfolio kind of solution. And then in terms of -- if people ask us, how do you select the products, right? So there are so many different kind of products, different kind of strategies in the market. So what is your principle? So we have something we call it the principle for the product onboarding and selection. So the #1 is we want our product shelf to be fully covered. So we have all the asset classes. We have all the strategies. So that's the #1, very important for our clients to achieve their long-term investment goal. And then the second one is that we need to have the products that can offer strategic value to the clients. So the asset allocation point of view, they need to have some sort of something -- everybody will need to put in their portfolio. #3 will be the brand. So when we identify our partners, right? So we have so many -- the really top-notch partners in the world. We -- the brand, the history, the AUM are very important. So that's -- we are not just like selecting a high performance, very short period -- short history kind of producer. So then is the brand is important. And number four is when we see this opportunity in the market and also we see the huge uncertainties under the Trump 2.0, and then we have to identify the relative and the good related strategy to put on the product shelf so that this one can kind of resist the turbulence in the market. The fifth one, the last one is we develop a very tight relationship with our the fund managers. So this one shows when the CIOs, they come to our company and they share the insights and also the head of strategies came over to our company to share the insights and also we include our clients and also all our business partners to kind of listen and participate. So that's kind of built up a long-term relationship and hopefully, with some sort of exclusivity as well. So we will be ahead of our competitors, kind of leading in the product offering. So that is pretty much my part. So I would love to answer the questions if you have. But maybe before that, let's go through this round and then deep dive in each asset classes and then we can explain that in more detail.

Good afternoon. My name is Andy, myself, Roy and Byron. So we're the partners at our private -- global private solutions. So private market, essentially, just to give you a broad overview, it's a $15 trillion market, which consists of 4 major asset classes. We have private equity, we have private credit and real estate and infrastructure. Noah has been known for private market allocation for our clients for 20 years. So if you look at our current AUM overseas U.S. dollars, 80% of our AUM is on private side -- is on private market. And my -- so we're talking about a few thousand active clients every year, and Jeff just showed. So this year, we're going to push around $1 billion assets allocated for our clients across different asset classes and different strategies. So our main goal for the 3 of us on the private market, so we've been telling this to our clients. Our main goal is very simple. Our main goal is to make money for our clients. That's one. And second is make visible money for our clients, which means we manage our downside risk, and we achieve returns that close to our expectations. So we constantly study the market and monitor our products' performance. And when the trends change, when the markets change, we'll give our clients a timely notice, if you will, so they can start putting their money or start allocating their money differently, moving their money around different products or getting into new products or coming out of their existing portfolio. So these are the 2 goals. And to achieve these 2 goals, we have communicated to our clients, so they need to, and we're doing the same thing. They need to have 3 fundamental principles. Number one, especially in today's market, highly uncertain. Principle number one, you need to be diversified. Jeff touched on that. So you need to diversify across different markets, different asset classes, different strategies and different managers. And second is you need to pay close attention to underlying assets. Historically, a lot of our clients, individual investors, so they tend to believe in good brands to the point of superstition. So they trust everything a good brand does. But in reality, even good managers, they can have bad products. So obviously, you need to work with good brands. They need to have a good track record. But now we're asking our clients to ask one more question. So before you invest in a product, ask yourself what this product actually holds, what underlying assets are we actually investing because fundamentally, the underlying assets are the things that are generating return for you. So that's #2 principle. And the third principle is stick to the leaders, because in the future, strong tend to get stronger. I'll give you a sense. So this year, top 10 -- not 10%, top 10 managers globally raised about 40% of all the capital that's raised today or this year. So that's how concentrated this market is. So you need to stick to leaders. But back to the second principle, even leaders, you still need to go through their product mix and pick what I call the flagship products. So this year, we're very proud. Overall, private market, given the high interest rate, this year it has been very slow for private market globally. The latest statistics, so this year, across all different asset classes, private market overall fundraising declined by 5% year-over-year. But we are -- well, touch the wood, we're still not at the year-end yet. But -- so we're looking at about 50% growth year-over-year for our line of business. So we're proud of that. And this year, we -- so I want to talk a little bit about this product selection. So this year, we did 15 different products across all different asset classes and strategies, 15 different products. And this year, about 1,000 customers allocated the capital within these 15 different products. But to give you a sense of why I'm growing a lot of gray hair. So I talked about the overall market is $15 trillion. There are about 40,000 different managers and 120,000 different products. So out of 120,000, this year, we did 15. And last year, we did 14. So really, in Chinese, we call [Foreign Language] really, you're picking one good one out of 10,000 candidates. So we follow that just now the Spiderweb approach. And we also have this 3-step approach, which I can explain later. But that's the scale of the database that we have, 120,000 products that they're all in our database. And we're really strict. So our bar of putting one thing on our product shelf is very high. You can talk to a lot of global names, global managers. They chase me every day and say, "Hey, can you please consider our product"? So the thing I say very often is thank you. You're good, but you're not good enough.

Well, actually, I'm glad to ask you a question. Yes, sure. So we are if you look at the private credit, I think we are quite successful ahead of market, right? So share that with our investors. How did you identify this kind of asset class? And how did you engage the relationship with the top-tier players?

Right. So this question actually can entail a very long answer. So I'll give you a sense. So I joined Noah in September '22. So it's been -- it's my third year. So the first day I joined the firm, the first message I delivered to our clients is, please get out of real estate and getting credit, okay? Because...

Roy, you are not offended, well.

I agree.

Roy's business line is different. His strategy is different. What I mean is...

Just kidding, I mean Roy is very unique.

And it has different assets and different strategies. What I mean by getting out of real estate is getting out of real estate assets that are yield generating because rates are going higher, valuation cannot hold. So valuation comes down and your return will be hit. So I'll give you an example. So Blackstone. Blackstone has 2 flagship products. One is BREIT, so Blackstone's flagship real estate investment trust. And the other one is what I brought online in September '22, which is the direct lending, the credit -- their flagship credit strategy. So last year -- this year is not finished as we can say. Last year, BREIT, real estate investment trust generated a return of 0 for clients. And BCRED, the credit product generated 13.2% net for our clients. So sector rotation, given different market environments is real. And that's why our team is really staying on high alert every day to monitor the market changes. And to dig a little bit further, I want to report to you guys that -- so our 2 products on credit, one is Blackstone, the other one is Ares. They are #1 and #2 in direct lending strategy. So these are very stable and well proven, has been 20 years-plus years track record. So well-proven strategy and good managers. Going forward, we still want to do more things in credit because the inflation and rates are staying high. And we want to continue helping our clients allocate in credit asset class. But we're moving away from direct lending. So next year and the year after, my major thesis, I give my current product line a score out of 160. So we're okay, but we're not exciting enough, and we're not unique enough yet. So today, panel, we're going to talk about how we differentiate from our competitors? Who are big names, the big name private banks? How we differentiate is -- so from my product line perspective, we want to dig deeper. So outside of plain Manila direct lending strategy, we're looking at a few dimensions to try to be more creative and innovative. Obviously, our bar stays high. One is geography. So we're looking at Europe, we're looking at Japan, trying to find value opportunities there. And second is we're going up and down the capital structure. So we've been doing senior lending. So what about mezzanine, what about junior or about structured credit? Is there an opportunity there? And we're going after different types of underlying assets. So direct lending is corporate lending. So your underlying assets is corporate cash flow. But what about aircraft leasing? What about real assets? What about portfolio financing? What about life insurance? The credit market is very complicated. So we are -- in terms of asset class strategy, geography, we're looking ways to bring our customers more chances to generate risk-adjusted return and chances to diversify their portfolio and manage all risk.

Very good. So basically, you develop these insights from really top down, where we have our own research team and also bottoms up, you connect with a lot of market players in getting all this kind of information. So you identify the opportunities in certain areas like private credit, for example. And also when you select the products, you have a pretty big database and you look at each individual asset classes and strategy and then you develop your quantitative approach and qualitative due diligence, right? So you basically not just identify the opportunity, but you also identify the best player, right? And then you work with the team to kind of promote this good idea to our investors.

Right. So maybe let me spend 30 more seconds on this before I don't want other guys to get bored. So I have...

I haven't decided about that.

So I have a 3-step approach. So on a macro level, so remember, I talked about 4 asset classes. So equity, credit, real estate and infrastructure. So on the macro level, we identify in today's environment, which asset class I like. And then the mid-level is within the asset class, there are different dimensions. There are different strategies, different geographies, different underlying assets. What specific subsector do I like? And then on a micro level, within the subsector, there are dozens and dozens of different. So what manager do I like? So I have this sector mapping that for pretty much every sector, mainstream sectors, we map top 30 global managers from their size to AUM, from their historical return perspective. And then we identify those top performers and then we'll go into deep diligence. We interview their team. We look at their invested projects, we study their terms. So everything -- we have a scorecard that has 6 major categories with 30-something different scoring items. So we sum them up. If a score is north of 80, that's something that we will dig deeper. So it's a lot of work, and our clients only see 15 different names every year. But behind the scene, there's a lot of work going on.

Very comprehensive, very detailed. I think, Andy, if you ask him for another 2 hours, he probably will spend more. So next question, I actually go to Roy, our U.S. real estate CEO. So share with people about your strategy as well. I mean how come you did so well and always attract lots of audience to your panel.

Well, I feel like this is like a beauty contest, right? So I try to tell people how pretty we are, how smart, how beautiful. So well, Roy Chen, I'm Olive's -- I joined Gopher in 2017, now Olive as U.S. real estate investment partner. And we're based in New York, and we focus on commercial real estate investment in U.S. real estate is obviously a very significant asset class. It's about $25 trillion to $30 trillion asset value and almost all major institutional investor family office has a component of commercial real estate from anywhere from 15% to 35% or 50%. It is a very significant asset class. So we, in New York, in U.S., we focus -- our team focused on specific need in U.S., it is highly sophisticated market. So to survive, to thrive and to have a long-term sustainable future, you got to have a certain focus and expertise. So we tend to focus the most resilient asset class, which is multifamily and which meaning rental housing. The reason is that I'm in U.S. for over 20 years in real estate. I acquired -- over my 20-year career, acquired office, hotel. I also analyzed or underwrote shopping mall and why not. So over $5 billion worth of asset value. And over the years, we see institutional capital shift from, for instance, 20 years ago from shopping mall to a warehouse distribution center and recently from office to rental housing. So the trend is that you -- the capital give premium pricing on resilient asset. So meaning that the asset that can weather a lot of economic downside and up and downs. So the -- it's also my experience over the years, I look back, the most profitable or the asset class that I have invested so far that provided me with the best return is multifamily. So this is just by my experience. So that's why we're lucky in 2018, when we start building our real estate, we focus on multifamily. And we also focus on multifamily development, which is on the upper stream. So what we do is we work with sophisticated local developers we buy land, we build, we create value. And we -- then we sell, we lease up, create a cash flowing asset and then we sell to institutional buyer. So, so far, we almost sold each one of our developed project to institutional buyers. So it's created a business model. So the key thing is to create a business model that is sustainable. You can duplicate it. So almost every our projects look very similar, almost a cookie cutter. So we can do that sustainably. And we can do -- now we are Fund IV. We just closed our Fund I and sold Fund I, and we're on our Fund IV, and we have -- we will have a Fund V, VI, VII. I jokingly tell our investors so before I retire, I can keep doing this for 25 years. So this is very important for our investors to -- so you're not getting into -- so we're not an opportunistic investment strategy. And we're also not as smart as Jeff to beat the market. We can't beat the market. So only Jeff can beat the market. So...

I'm still trying.

Yes. So we do fundamental investments. We create this asset class that is very valuable to institutional buyers as an investment product. And the downside is because rental multifamily in U.S., the fallback is we can always keep it as operating cash flowing property to weather the time. If you look at the history of 20, 25 years or 30 years, every U.S. downturn is about 2 years and 18 months to 24 months. So including financial crisis, '08, the actual downturn is 24 months and then started taking off. So you want to have a long-term value, long-term resilient asset that can weather a certain economic down. So we can't predict, right? So that's very important. Also, I want to give our investor suggestion that when you invest in U.S., construct a long-term view. So I think you always hear a lot of us and also other professional -- investment professionals in U.S. I think the most frequent phrase you hear is a long-term view, long-term view. So let's not focus this year. Let's not focus next month. And majority of U.S. money, majority of U.S. money, whether it's family office or institutional money, majority of the money is invested in a long-term sustainable strategy, not focused on timing of the market. So I always hear from the investors, I always ask me a question, is it a good time to invest? I always tell them, there's no good time, bad time, but you look at long term, you always want to stay in the course. So you make money sometimes more, sometimes less, but you construct your investment strategy, so you have a compounding return that's the major -- the most important probably investment strategy to create value. And also, especially when you are in 40, 50 or 60 years old, at that time, you look at your investment strategy, not for 2 years, for 3 years, but average U.S. family office, the horizon they're looking at is 40 to 50 years. So it's really to create a wealth transfer strategy to the next generation. So just mine.

Yes. So very good. So actually, this is really in line with our goal to service our clients as well, right, because their wealth is really long term. They want to pass the wealth to the next generation, another next generation. So in this strategy, we look at 30, 40 years kind of very long horizon. And then Andy's investment horizon is probably about less than 10 years, right, 3 years to 10 years kind of range. And also later, Byron will talk about your strategy on the VC capturing really the super trend. So I think for Roy, you just mentioned that you're kind of lucky that you invest in the multifamily. I think, while you said it's lucky, but at the same time, we feel that it's also really your skill. You probably identified this is good -- why you did not choose the commercial real estate. And then -- so to us, I think the Chinese is also kind of very interested in investing in real estate anyway, right? So that's the biggest buyer. So that's in line with our -- when the company select you, when you select the company and you select the right asset classes, that's quite match.

Right. I think sometimes you need a luck, to be honest with you.

Absolutely, yes.

But I think luck doesn't come from thin air, right? So before I joined Gopher at that time, now it's Olive. Before I joined Gopher, I was actually invest a lot of money into multifamily. So I see this asset class, the character in the capital market when we sell and also the resilience of the -- through a different time. So it feels -- it applies to me that I want to create -- I want to focus on something that in 20 years, it's still working. It's not like in 2 years, it no longer works. So at that time, actually, office is also very attractive. And -- but because of our scale, so we're not a $5 billion fund, thankfully, actually, if you have a $5 billion fund, you may focus a lot on office, then today, you're running into trouble. So sometimes bigger is not necessarily the good thing. So because our scale is relatively small, so we can't do beyond one asset class. Let's focus on one asset class. So it's really a calculated decision that that's what fit us. So -- but then with COVID and office is absolutely out of favor. So if you look at the BREIT, office is 1% and rental housing is like 50% out of $90 billion asset value, the rental housing is 50%, office is 1%. That tells you that institutional buyers pretty much do not want to touch office anymore. It used to be one of the major -- very, very major asset class. So things do change like shopping mall before, right? So...

Shopping mall now, I heard that it's becoming apartment, people are living in the shopping malls.

Yes. So shopping mall, when I started business 20 years ago, shopping mall is very attractive. A lot of large institutional insurance money, pension fund, they hold a lot of more shopping malls. And then at that time, Amazon is selling DVD. So nobody cares about Amazon. It's a DVD distributor. So now from DVD to books to now to, obviously, a big -- yes -- so Amazon really changed the U.S. real estate for a shopping mall to warehouse distribution. So you see the trend, right? But at the end of the day, we are pretty sure that people are going to live somewhere. So they can't live in air, right? They can't live in a Bitcoin, right? So they have to have a land and a building structures, we think that's probably going to be...

Probably maybe one day they live in Mars.

Yes. We will we build a fund in Mars. A mars multifamily fund. So that's why the thesis is you want to do something that your underlying asset has a long-term horizon. So we feel very good about it. And even though the high interest rate environment impact our value short term, because we know when you have a high interest, they always come back. So I tell you the -- our experience the U.S. cycle, if there is economic cycle, it's usually 24 months. So then the flip. So that's why we ask our investors to construct a long-term view. Don't be confused by 6 months, even 18-month economic downturn.

Good. So you are in a very traditional old school -- very old fashioned.

Old fashioned.

Not s*** enough, but let's go to...

Nothing s***. And we like the pay...

We make money. That's more...

Hopefully, yes.

All right. Let's move to Byron. Yes, you are the s****** one.

That's a s*** one. That's a s*** girl. That's a s*** girl.

Okay. Can you pass over the remote control.

Talk about the venture capital. Yes, the most s*** part of our business, right? So yes, this business has been changed actually since COVID. I will share a little bit to you today. But venture capital business, it's core business, our firm. It has been our DNA. Ever since our Chair lady and our CEO built this firm 2 decades ago, right? This is our DNA. This is our core. But we talk about the U.S., right? So I let -- I'm leading the U.S. all U.S. operations, right? So team-based in silicon valley. And since -- ever since the -- everybody using Chat GPT, right? So it started -- this wave of revolution starting in 2021. Chat GPT 3.5 will released. But artificial intelligence has been developed over years 70 years, right? So suddenly, it started to commercialize, right? And AI has been become a big trend in across over the world, right, especially in United States. So AI is groundbreaking, you mentioned. I would say in human history, right? So coupled with this favorable electrical trend, plus I see the rapid adoption rates. So our team has built a very strong pipeline for next year in the venture capital industry, co-investment opportunity with very high-profile deals, right, plus some crypto web 3 start-ups. We're also looking at it, and we're doing a lot of research on that, right? We haven't released any crypto or web 3 related product yet. But we will soon, yes. Talking about our team, right? So U.S. team is a little bit different because we hired a team in local right? So the team all educated in the U.S., they have average over 10 years experience in local states, in investment banking, in venture capital and a lot of the top asset management firm across the world. And because of the team, right, we've been on the ground for past 8 to 9 years. And the team has cultivated the very extensive network in venture capital ecosystem and entrepreneurial communities in the Silicon Valley, okay, in Boston, in New York, in L.A.. So because of this team and allowed us to gain access to the top managers in the venture. I want to share with you about our playbook for venture investing, okay? So the playbook of our venture investing currently in this market is about to get access. So access to what, right? People are asking. And Andy mentioned a little bit, like top 1% yet. How many venture firm actively fundraising this year? 500. It's about 5,000 venture firms in the United States, but we only look at really the top 1% the 30, 40 VC firms is in our list. Those are the managers who want to gain access, right. People were asking why is the situation like this, right? And if you look at PitchBook, if we look at the right, the database, people talking top quartile. But now it's not top quartile anymore. It's like top 1%, even less, right? So it was largely due to based on our analysis, it's largely due to the persistence of the performance of those top managers. So people jokely saying, right now, the VC business is about again assets, it's called access costs. Okay. So nobody want to invest on those like maybe your VC firm anymore. So for our challenge is getting the access to those.

Actually one question though. I mean sometimes when they analyze the performance, right? So the past performance usually was not really a good indicator of the fact for the future performance. So when we -- when you mentioned about the top 1%, so -- and then it's very hard to get access. I think that's -- you have that relationship that's great. But also mentioned a little bit about how do you kind of ensure this these things?

Yes, it's a very good question, right? So in our additional right, the top 1% is very different from the database from PitchBook from -- it's very different. So our database has been built for over a decade, right? So data has been accumulated for over a decade. And like 10 people on the ground, right, across the United States. What we do every day, right? Every day, we have a meeting with managers. We monitor every partners within the firm where they go, which deal they get, right? Every day, we work with the engineer in the Silicon Valley. So what they like, which firm they like, particularly those continuously successful entrepreneurs, right? When they started a new business, they're looking for a partner, you're talking about money partners, right? So which partner they pick? This changes quarter-over-quarter, right? It's not like static data in our database. So that's the groundwork. It's very detailed and tedious work every day we do on the ground.

Can I just add one more thing to your question. So if you talk to institutional investors, they will a lot of them will tell you, how do you try to figure out which ones can keep performing, at least to their historical standard. So remember, 3 words, when you evaluate a manager. One is understandability. Do you understand their strategy. So if somebody tells you a crazy story or a not so clear strategy about what they're doing, run away. And second is predictability. So you study the market and you studied their playbook, you study their strategy and their team, figure out, is their strategy, it's their core strength is their team a good fit for where you see the world is going or the sector is going. And the third is repeatability can their performance repeat? Meaning, is there a strategy consistent? Is their team stable? Is the market going through some changes? So remember the 3 words when you trying to figure out if a manager can keep delivering in the next 10 years, what they have been delivering in the past.

Yes, to agree, this is Andy. In addition, I'd like to report to here to the audience -- so Ali Partners management, which is all of the U.S. first registered the fund manager firm. And we -- in the past 12 months, we have already launched 3 flagship VC fund of funds. The total AUM about over $150 million. And we currently is preparing the fourth one. And then next year, as I just said earlier, we have a very strong pipeline for those branding, very hard to access managers and offer this product to our clients. And besides that, we have also built our co-investment vehicle to access those very high profile. Very hard to get top deals in the market, right? I couldn't share you with more detail, but once you become our clients. Well, that really shows our unique strength, right? So I think with the 2 direct investment team, Roy invested in the real estate, and then you invest in early stage either company or venture funds through the funnel fund, I think that shows our -- really the investment capability. And I would like to move that forward a little bit more from -- to the liquid side right? So we can see these 3 gentlemen are more kind of responsible for the more illiquid and private market. And then the other 2 is because our client also needs liquidity. So you cannot maybe Andy, once I kind to invest their only $100 into your private fund. But I think the $100 need to break down into smaller pieces and then maybe $20 to liquid alternative. So Frank, so you tell us.

Sure. Thank you, Jeff. My name is Frank Wang. I'm Deputy CEO of Oliver. I'm the public market. All the guys -- some guys on my right side, they are private side. I'm on the public side, which sexy. So today, in the last panel, our Chairwoman and our CEO insight that our strength is the product hedge fund is one of the key asset class on our platform. As you know that in durable country, right, hedge fund has been a very attractive asset class. It's for the inst client. It offer relative high returns with very good liquidity and risk very well. But for our client, primarily all those high net worth individual, right, the hedge fund has been greatly new and family. So -- that's why we are committed to bring this appealing asset to our platform. By doing so, we enable our clients to have access to all those appealing asset class for their portfolio asset allocation. That's the reason why I develop all my life, all to hedge fund. So in the past 1.5 years since Jeff and I rejoined Olin, once we do, we try to focus on all those top asset management. In the past 1.5 years, we were able to bring over dozens of globally top rank asset management. Here, I want to give you an overview of what we have, some of the strategy we have on the platform. As you know, hedge fund, one of the benefit is they offer a variety of investment strategy, right? So for our client, whatever you want, you can always find ones which can meet your specific risk profile. And here on market side, we work with Morgan Stanley, we have Morgan Stanley Omni firm and for the market, we have [indiscernible] Capital Mine Group. And for Global Micro feature brand Howard, Longshort side, we have Willington [indiscernible]. And for the [indiscernible] is one of the key offering we have it's very strong performance. [indiscernible] side, we work with PIMCO, and we even offer crypto. And when clients come to our platform, we have the BTC ETFs. We have the brand called digital for the hedge fund. So as you know that yesterday, Bitcoin has passed USD 100,000, which is the milestone. And we -- early on, we were able to bring this asset to our platform, give access to our client. And again, in the past 1 year, we made a huge progress on the product side, and we were able to target this top $15 billion hedge fund, and we have covered half of them. And the one highlight on this table, either they have the product on our platform or they are in the process of process with us. And my goal in next 1 year, I'm going to cover the risk and bring either cover all those and onboard all those remaining half of the top $15 billion hedge fund. Again, all the fund that we bring -- we select and bring to our platform have consistently show a stronger performance. What I show here on this chart is this orange color basis the performance for 2024 this year as of September and year 2023. The gray bars show the benchmark in the same period. As you can see that the orange color, which is the fund performance, most of them outperformed all the benchmark -- consider outperform benchmark in the past 2 years. That has been validated the high quality of the fund we bring to our platform and we offer to our clients. And in the past 1 year, also the hedge fund business in all -- we have a tremendous growth -- as of this November, the capital we raised is already 2.5x of what we raised in 2023 full year. And also for the investing, we also tripled. So again, hedge fund has been one of the focus asset class for all and we -- the growth is very strong, and I expect this momentum will continue. So our mission remains very clear. We want to offer the right product at the right time to right clients. That's what we do here. And...

Okay. Thank you so much. The reason we pick hedge funds is because -- most of our clients have the equity exposure, right? So equity exposure, especially China equity exposure. So we would need something which is uncorrelated with the equity market, right? So either it's a low correlation, negative correlation and also liquid as well. So that's why we focus on the global hedge funds. So global hedge fund so many strategies, so many players. So at the same time, how do we pick the top tier, top one? That becomes difficult. For example, some of that essentially have the access issue. We have a very limited capacity, right? I don't want to give you the name. I mean we know the top tiers, I mean, Citadel, Millennium, 0.72, it's very hard to access, very good fun. But they cannot -- we cannot access to it. So the question is that for this type of players, Frank, do you have any plan to access to it? And what's your view?

Yes, one of our goals try to get a hard to access, is it the fund managers stripe our platform. Right now, currently, we have a few strategy. We are 1 of the -- if not the only one, but one of the few players in this market. We were able to access what other company does not have. We both dive work in the U.S. for work in U.S. New York City for 18 years. I use work for the Citi Group head fund unit and get to work for Goldman Sachs. So we're both in the head fund business. So through our network through our access and with all the -- our ARK channel, the influence in Asia market, we were able to consistently talk to all those managers, and we're able to get access to those hard asset class. And our goal continues -- we will try to get all those hard assets to our platform. So when you go in our platform, you get access to all those asset class.

Yes. Okay. Thank you. So one thing I would like to add is -- this year, in the past several years, lots of alternative managers is trying to expand or get into the soft wealth channel, right? So they are no longer just taking institutional money, but also work with a wealth manager to actually taking the high net worth individuals money. So Noah is actually in a very unique position because we kind of represent the largest investor base in the Chinese high net worth. That's why we kind of were able to develop relationship with the top managers. So for example, AQRs and also Wellington group, is Wellington and Vice Chairman actually visited here, who had a very good conversation to develop the longer-term relationship. Even if assets came over here to have a talk with us a dialogue and then to our investors as well. So I would say we should leverage this kind of opportunities and also our resources and hopefully, we can actually get access to the more difficult access.

We will continue to do that to build our stronger product line for the Oliver.

Okay. Thank you. So last one, let's go to Sherlock, when I went, okay, you always think about some sort of some sort of English detective. Okay. James Bond or Sherlock, Okay. So explaining to us, structured product is very popular products. offered by private banking banks. Why do we need to offer this kind of product to our clients? Where are our unique kind of advantage in the -- all that.

Hi, everyone. My name is Sherlock Hang, and I'm the Head of Structured Products at Olive Asset Management. Actually, like if you look at structured products, this is 1 of the promising business in private banks. One of the reason is structural products, actually, if you look at the underlying, you spend a cost like equities, credit, currency, interest rates, et cetera, I can actually spend quite a lot of asset classes. And then besides that, you look at like stocks or indexes commodities, like credit, this is also some of the sectors that is structured products have lots of underlying that is actually linked to it. So if I give you like the business over for 2024, actually, like you moved the high interest rate environment, we actually rolled out 8 different print role protect structures. Which we can look at the changes like the PBM booster, some of the -- like the bullish and [indiscernible]. The auto carbon notes and also like the -- like [indiscernible] and also some of the quantitative investment strategies. Like these are some of the structures that in 2023 that we do not have. Because like in Noah, like we started this business, it's actually quite new, like back in like April 2023. But then like going forward, we actually think this is actually a promising business. And for all of these different structures, we're actually linked to like stocks and indexes, commodities and also like the interest rates, currency, et cetera, which we think actually offers quite a lot of product diversity to our clients. And besides that, I want to add that like in 2024, we added 7 different issuers, like which includes like some of the outback banks. -- talking about like Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, JPMorgan, BNP Palmer, Credit Agricole and also like DBS. So with all of these like 7 international banks, it actually helps to like increase our product offerings and also like make our products more competitive compared to other companies. Okay. So for 2024, if I want to -- like let me give you on the financial overview of the 2024 Structural products business. Actually, like if you look at the -- like for the commission per trade, the average commission per trade has increased by about 2x in 2024 compared to 2023 because we sold more high-margin products. So to give you an example, like in 2023, the average annualized commission rates is 0.47%, which increased to 0.92%. And in 2024. So this is talking about like a twofold. And the total commission amount has increased by 56% year-over-year. So going forward, we also like stick with this kind of regime. And then like we also think that like in terms of the annualized commission rate, it's also like kind of towards like the high end of like 1% level or even more. So for some of the like popular products that sold this year, is like [indiscernible] guaranteed trimming, which we actually saw a lot. Like, for example, in April and also like in May, we saw quite a lot of Tesla, NVIDIA, minimum coupon talking about like 3.5% or 4%, like...

One thing you sold it to our chair ladies. She was not happy.

But besides like this minimum Cub guarantee staffing, if you look at the bullying, we actually have the products that -- like if -- like the Buletin like KO level. So after the stock rise above like KO level, you would get like a 5.5% like annual coupon. So this 5.5% if compared to like an annual like deposit rate in U.S. dollars is talking about -- so at least like we get like a KO key point, that is 5.5% is even more than you put in a bank. And this is also 100% piece of protected. So for our clients because they are more conservative like for our Chinese clients, they are quite interested in these kind of products, and they're able to like every day, they can just sleep comfortably and then instead of looking at the products, but then it's also as a way to help them to like invest in like the stocks today like okay? And -- Right. So I just want to answer a question like what are competitive, like edges. So in 2025, as Jeff just touched upon like we bought FCN, which is the fixed coupon NOx products. This is one of the products that private banks actually saw a quite a lot these days, and it is one of the most public products. If you look at the sales volume in like Morgan Stanley as an example, they sold like 36% out of the total non-principal protected product sales volume in first half 2024. And these kind of products, one of the good thing is the panel is actually you can say about 3 months, 6 months, quite a sort tender. And even if KO investors can actually get back their money quite quickly and also Q1 quite quickly, but also as an opportunity for the investors to buy the stocks at a lower price. So this is one of the products that we just rolled out like this week in December. And our clients actually are quite interested like the atmosphere kind of stay very late at night and a lot of people kind of crowded in your sections.

But one thing I would like to add, actually, our kind of unique value proposition and also the strength is. You think about this, a lot of our clients are really entrepreneurs, right? So they have a lot of views in their own industry. And also, a lot of their products is kind of linked with the global market, right? So they know even a global name talk about Apple, for example, if you look at supply chain, many components kind of build in China, right? So for this kind of entrepreneurial they know what's going on, how the stock will perform, meaning people have their own view the view on certain stocks up or down in the next 6 months, the next 12 months. So with this kind of view the structured product, it actually is a very good structure to offer investors to realize their view, right? So if you have a long view, you think the stock will go up, but within a certain range, they can design the product for you. If you think the stock is too bad -- value is too high, valuation is too high, it will go down. They can designed another product for you. So highly customized with the view. And then that's one important advantage that the other one is our client has come to us for one-stop shop. So they come to here and then they look for almost our order solution. Of course, we can find the structure product from the private bank. But at the same time, if they already have the money here, they have the account over the year, they can actually choose all kinds of products. They would like to just come to our place. So structured product is actually a very important addition to our alternative investment products.

I think we have -- times up. But okay, last one.

Last one to touch me is like before we partnered with Goldman Sachs, which we launched like the Goldman Sachs gross breed gross asset low beta index. And this is 1 of the index that they only sell to the institutional investors before. But we are the only company like only wealth management company that is able to sell to our high net worth investors. So these are some of the key products that actually like only offered by us, like other companies that they don't have -- and it's more like kind of pricing, yes.

Thank you. So last word, I remember last year, Eileen, actually Eileen, right? So we had a long and good conversation. At the end of the conversation, you show me a book written by Victor Hagi, who was my partner a long time ago, right? And then the book name is missing the missing billionaires. And then I read it. So the key part for this book essentially talk about how the wealth should be built. It's -- people should look at compound return. That's number one, right? So compound return is a low volatility manageable. But it's more important, it's about sizing. Sizing your investment is probably even more than picking the right asset in some case. So if you look at this, what we are building right now is actually to offer a more comprehensive, more diversified solution to our clients. The goal is actually to lower the volatility of their wealth so that they can actually carry this comfortably in the long run to achieve the compound return. So that's pretty much our theme here. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks very much for your insight and discussion on the strategy. And we found out the kind of the conflicting potential between different products and strategies.

For people on site, we will have a 10-minute teabag you can enjoy the tea outside of the venue. Let's come back at 45 25 minutes past for that's gathered together here. We will join together for another round table about the comprehensive service capacity. Let's see you guys in 10 minutes. [Break]

Dear guests, please be seated. We're going to commence the second session, sir. Apart from asset -- investment assets, we have also insurance options available. We're going to begin with panel 3 -- young CEO, Glory Family Heritage to be the moderator for today's panel 3. And we have speakers Clement Ting, Head of Glory Overseas insurance business. Ken Tin, Head of Glory Trust business. Jingbo Wang, Head of Glory Global Life business. Ivy Zhang, General Manager of Financial Department and Head of Tax; Michael Chen, General Manager of Glory Family Heritage.

Good afternoon. Gao Yang. It's not my first open day, but I represented the Department of HR, finance and operations. Last year, I joined the Glory Family Heritage BU. Why do we -- how is Glory born and how we offer this section. I think insurance or Family Heritage could provide us the safety net. The safety net is the bottom of the pyramid that we mentioned in the above 2 panels. It includes insurance, identity planning and global lifestyle. And we also have a representative of the tax department to share with more insights on that part. And a lot of the clients have their taxation considerations. So we could integrate the taxation considerations into our product offerings. And what we do is long-term planning long-term investments. So we would like to provide this long-term platform and services to our clients. From the point of digitalization and insurance, we can provide this long-term services to the clients with a comprehensive product portfolio. So it's not just a product offering, but more of a solution provider. Originally, we have secured a license of insurance brokerage in 2008 in China. So this business was born in 2008. And in 2011, we have secured a license of insurance brokerage in Hong Kong and the Ark Glory Family Heritage was just built in Hong Kong. And then we went global. Now we have office in Singapore. So the overall global lifestyle package was based in Singapore, and in 2019, we have secured a license of insurance brokerage in Singapore. And in 2023, we resumed our insurance brokerage in U.S. market. So our insurance coverage includes North America and we have the office and service center in Los Angeles. And this starts -- since this year, we're going to have updated planning. Apart from Hong Kong, we will have a channel network in other parts of the world. And Mr. Ting will give us more insight on our expansion of operations and innovative practices in other parts of the world. So now we have global insurance, overseas trust, global lifestyle and global strategy for enterprises. So we have expanded the coverage from 2B and 2C. And this is a very diversified platform to our clients. And next, we would like to give the floor to Clement Ting, Head of the Glory Overseas Insurance business to give an update on our strategy and planning on the insurance and particularly the performance we have achieved over the past few years.

Thank you. I would like to introduce you the Glory Insurance business in overseas markets. We covered Hong Kong, Singapore, U.S. and Bermuda with different product lines offered to our clients. And also it covers different assurance companies, whether like the Semma and those very prestigious insurance companies in Hong Kong and also those partners in Singapore. [indiscernible] for example, [indiscernible ], Manulife and those large partners and Lincoln, Next Life in U.S. and some of the partners in Bermuda. As in insurance market, we have the -- like for example, in Singapore, U.S. and Bermuda, we have IUM assets, IUM options. And those are most coveted and popular products. While in insurance, in Hong Kong -- in these 4 markets, we -- the insurance premium coverage is at a high level right now. And in Hong Kong, we can cover 95% and 98% in U.S. So as you can see, our client coverage and footprint in different countries, we had a good performance. And in Hong Kong, the premium coverage in Hong Kong amounted to [ USD 230,600 million ] in U.S.A. So we have deployed different strategies in these other 3 regions. Now we are also tech-enabled. We can provide a tech-enabled experience and delivery to our clients. We are the first digitalized offer -- a provider of the insurance products in Hong Kong. While in 2024, we have been awarded digitalized insurance awards in Hong Kong that really signifies our capability to provide digital insurance service to our clients. And with 2 years of consultation and endeavor, we have been able to provide the integrated service system to our clients. So the clients can just sign their signal and the policy form in our platform and then the policy form could be transmitted to the insurance company directly. And like we have built this platform integrated with [indiscernible] and other prestigious insurance companies of Hong Kong and same practices will be replicated in Singapore, U.S. and Bermuda. And our tech team is very highly capable and they are an innovative team. Well, in partnership with the different insurance companies, including Hong Kong, we have issued 3D insurance options. And this is -- this has laid a good foundation and we expect to build our network and expand our network in Singapore and U.S.A.

I have a question. While this year, like the Hong Kong Insurance Authority has released a couple of regulatory policies, and it involved several like penalty policies on certain practices. And what kind of characters do you think are the most competitive in our company to provide quality service.

Well, the penalty that you mentioned are more oriented to the high premium commission. But in Noah, we are service-oriented. We don't have any like commission distributed to our clients. And the comprehensive capabilities that we boast of are really one of the distinctive advantages. We can provide diversified options, including the planning and the allocation and also the portfolio that we can provide. And also, we can cover the planning of the identity and heritage. So we can not only providing the insurance planning, but also cover other parts of the demand like overseas trust, overseas insurance and identity planning. We believe like now we are working to expand other channels in Hong Kong, and we have received massive recognition from our partners in Hong Kong, and these qualities and capabilities could be channeled to their own high net worth individuals or clients.

I have another question for you. Now a lot of enterprises want to go global. Once they want to go global, then there are a lot of 2B demands like the critical illness insurance and life insurance.

Well, in Hong Kong for the top institutions, those top institutions are our partners, too, like whether the clients of the enterprises. While their bosses or the high net worth individuals, they would like to have insurance planning comprehensively. Well, the insurance of Hong Kong is beyond the insurance product. Well, we can provide a backup plan, plan B for entrepreneurial clients, while the [ foray ] has the FWD insurance private so it's kind of multi trust that we can earn. In Bermuda, it's quite compliant and it can be isolated with liability and insurance. So for enterprises going global after they go global, they will have a concern like for the medical insurance because like if you are a Chinese entrepreneur, you want to move to Dubai and other places of the world, they will have a concern of like high-quality medical insurance, how can they secure the high-quality medical insurance at other places. To be honest, probably they don't know much about the insurance and the available products that's why we are working closely with most of the insurance company on the market, especially with FWD. Next year, we will have a tailor-making high-end medical insurance package for our clients only.

I apologize for the mandarin of Clement. If possible, we can speak English with him. Chow Chen, it's your turn.

Could you give us some ideas about the global lifestyle, how to make the arrangement and planning in this regard, also the development of the company in this part of the business?

I'm [ Jo Yang ] responsible for Global Lifestyle. This should be my first participation of the Corporate Open Day. In the past 8 years, we have been doing the attentive arrangement for the high net value individuals. In the past 2 years, something new has been embarked that like Ms. Gao Yang mentioned that we relocate the whole team to the overseas places in Singapore, Hong Kong and Europe, even some of them are in the U.S. Regarding our business, one of the major business is the identity planning, which is designed for the high net individuals. For themselves, they want the freedom of traveling as a benefit and the privilege of getting education. They like to -- their kids to have the education in the U.S. and U.K. This is what we have been doing in the next 8 years. In the past 2 years, specifically, as the representative of the Chinese companies, we offer the representative typical services for the enterprises going abroad. One of the basic step for those companies going abroad should be the setup of the local company and the application of the visa for the staff. These are the derivative business from our original identity planning business. All of our work can be consisted with 2 parts. We should get a deeper understanding of the demand of the Chinese customers, and we offer the required services and then we need to be highly professional at the local places and help the customer to deliver the service required. The third business is more related to -- is related to the deeper level, that is the property purchase at the overseas place and the education access of their kids at the foreign places. They are the essential demand no matter for whatever reasons, the education access, the property purchasing could be a part of the -- a crucial part of the global lifestyle or the international lifestyle, all of those business could come back to facilitate the major business development of Noah. No matter corporate clients or the individual clients, this part of the business give us the connection and opens the door for the customers to get into our company. Then we can contact with the customer in more dimensions and build up the loyalties so when we know that the loss of the enterprises build up their business as the overseas places in one hand, we find the incremental demand our business will definitely seize the opportunity of this kind of the trend. And this part of the business will definitely help the going global strategy of the company. So we are doing -- we are trying our best to do -- to make the best out of the supplementary role. Like Ms. Wang mentioned at the very early beginning that to service the Chinese mandarin-speaking community. That means to serve those Chinese people who have been in the overseas places for 2 decades or who plan to go abroad or who has been just landed in the foreign land. They are pretty there. You mean you are asking those who are already at the oversea places. If you're specifically referring to those who just landed but they are pretty new to the new places at the foreign places. First of all, look, if you're pretty new to a foreign place like Hong Kong or any other foreign countries, you will definitely face a lot of the challenges. If we have an underground local team who could help you on every aspect of your life like setting up the banker account and paying the bills of the oil, of the gas and the electricity probably you think they are quite straightforward, but that might be a challenge for the newcomers. And we also expand our service for the staff who just relocated to the new places, our service also includes getting the access to the education for their kids. All of those kinds of the demand requires a team who are familiar both, the local knowledge and the customer of Chinese. If we have been -- for those who have been leaving overseas for decades, we have the team in Hong Kong, in Singapore, also in the European countries to serve those who have been leaving in the foreign places for many years, as Ms. Wang mentioned that they are still quite keen on the investment of properties. We are quite -- we are the experts in this regard. We have the expert investments team serving the Chinese people in Singapore, and we figured out their demand to invest in property in Japan, in Dubai. So in those regards, since we have the dedicated team at those targeted place, we could do a better job than others and serve them in a better way than others. That is very great. And I think the slide is also showing you the advantages of our business. I know there are lots of companies over the market outside of the company, who could offer the similar services. Now I want to draw your attention on the uniqueness of our service in this regard and what kind of the risk control measures are in place, and we don't regard this kind of service as one off, how to make it sustainable. I'd like to -- I think this is related to the mission of our company. Our company is deeply rooted in the Noah Group. All the investment strategy, investment decisions are related to the company -- are related to our company in many layers, in many aspects will offer the comprehensive service like the taxation, planning, insurance and trustship, also the identity planning. In the selection of the products, let me put it in a simple way that EB-5 is one of the channel for our customer to get the U.S. identity. We help the team of Roy and they are based in the United States. In 2019, we worked together with the team of Roy on the EB-5 immigration. And that product was actually delivered and the risk control part of that product was actually done by the team of Roy. So you can see that from the very beginning, we made the very good foundation of the products, which differentiates our products with others. We have a very comprehensive team, and we have the investment team in-house and risk control team in-house. They can help us with their professionalism and the expertise on the risk and on the quality of the products.

Let's move to -- the microphone to [ Tim ]. And let's talk about the overseas trust.

Glory Trust has been -- has established in 2014 where we set up the team in both Hong Kong and Singapore. Now I think you have been helping the family trust for over 500 families. How to make over trust different from others can? I'm responsible for the trust and the corporate services. Glory Trust as the brand has been in the market for over 10 years. We set it up in Hong Kong as early as 2014 and in 2019, we set it up in Singapore. We got the lessons from the 2 places. In addition, we have special branches dedicated to corporate services specializing setting up onshore and offshore companies. The nature of trust is a legal framework, which might be different from other business offered by the group. I think the trust -- but the trusted service is complementing with other kinds of the service, like insurance and investments, we can connect well with the trust, and those products can be a part of the trust design or the transfer package. And you see, we have been doing the trust service for over 500 families. They are mainly the successful entrepreneurs, business owners, when they go to abroad, we help them to provide different services. Some of them are dedicated for families. Some of others are dedicated to the employees. That includes the incentives of the incentives for staff before and after IPO. Let me be specific about the competitive edge and our portfolio of products. Compared with other trust service provider like the bank-backed service provider, we can be flexible and our reach is more compatible. So more importantly, we don't have the dragging force of the banks. For those bank backed service providers, they always look at the trust issue from the banking perspective, but we are specialized in the trust design, and we have the Corporate Secretary, the solicitors and the investors. We can understand the compliance issue of the trust in a better perspective, and we can judge the reasonability and the sustainability and unique perspective because of this mix of the talents. We have done some very important measures that is the Royal list. We have other list of service providers like the law firms and the investment institutions. They give us customer, they expand our customer base, they are also helping the customer demand together with us. I agree with you, in addition to the family trust and ESOP trust, we have connected with the insurance in many dimensions and the products this year. Insurance products is closely connected with trust. They are eventually mean to protect something. Trust is the structure Insurance is a guarantee. If you buy an insurance package policy, the policy -- the beneficiary will get a huge amount of the money at once. But if you don't want to do so, you'd rather to put it in the trust and the trust management team will do the investments smartly and intelligently and distribute the returns upon the request. There are a lot of the updates on the taxation and the legal issues of the trust. And would you like to give us some new ideas after that, I'd like to pass the floor to [indiscernible] for the latest of the recent laws, like it is the BVI. BVI in 2023, and that requires average trust company to provide the financial reports and statements to the local agents. As I mentioned that we are closely connected with the accounting firm and the legal firms. And so we can set it up the structure in a coordinated manner and submitted them to the authorities on time.

Good afternoon. Let me introduce myself. I'm [indiscernible] I have been in this business for 20 years. For the first decade, I was worked in the accounts -- in big accounting companies. And then the second decade was working in Noah, majorly engaged in taxation. The reason I'm here today is I gradually realize that tax is one of the major concerns and most important parts particular in regards of the compliance when enterprises go global. So tax is not an independent BU, but taxes the most important integral part in every BU, and we always advocate client-focused strategy. And taxes on one of the top list of considerations for clients. As you may know that tax is unavoidable, but one of the painstaking parts and also very complex. So I think I tried to explain this with the 2 triangles. We need to have the following considerations. We want to incorporate tax in the product line. First is the structure. So whether it's individual or family or enterprise? And family is an integral part of our clientele, but mostly neglected. And individuals are the identity for IR taxation is one of the major concerns for the going global individuals. There is compliance policies, regulations or individual can be covered by different jurisdictions. And the taxation needs to be submitted individually in some places of the world and a lot of regulation is concerned in the process. And that is frequently asked by our clients. And in recent years, laws of regulations are particularly in terms of the information exchange is also one of the major concerns. When enterprises go global, then it will involve the cross-border taxation planning. We need to be compliant with the local tax regulations. At the same time, we need to reasonably design their taxation structure to this enterprise. For this enterprise with the controlling stakes, they need to also be compliant with the local regulations. And as to families in -- for individual or enterprise, there are some of the main concerns that could be shared for the family clients as well. So for families, the distinctive feature is the comprehensive like family protection or segregation of family enterprise risk and the intergenerational inheritance plans and some of the special identity planning. So all the taxations can be found in those planning strategies. And we need to take into consideration of the geopolitical as well. In China, enterprises or entrepreneurs pay more attention to the policy dynamics or the changes, policy trends. For example, in the adoption of the Big Data, the taxation of risk management could be the significant part. And we need to do the taxation risk management plan ahead of the task and we need to get more customer used to the practice of taxation risk check regularly so that we can regulate or adapt our taxation plan period by period. Well, in overseas markets, we found is quite common to be seen. Well, in overseas market, in every new market that we entered, we have an opening plan we need to get a better understanding of the local taxation policies as quickly as possible. And then we need to adapt on characteristic features of our business to the local taxation policies. We need to single out of those major considerations. And then we need to work with the local law firms to facilitate our taxation planning as well. Well, the thing I would like to highlight is like for our high net worth clients, when they go global, they don't know much about the local regulatory environment. So we can be the facilitating role as well. When I just joined [ AY ] accounting firm, we would help our clients to get to know better about the local policy I think the role of us facilitating their going global, penetrating a new market is -- could be very significant. So for those 100-year established enterprise that will pay close attention to the taxation consideration. So when Chinese companies want to go global to overseas market, this taxation issue is really on the top list of the concerns to them. So apart from the geological consideration, we should pay heed to the associate transaction compliance or the cross-border, the tax treaty considerations. So all of these factors need to be weighed in and then in planning authorization, we need to highlight that when facing the needs of the core clients, we need to clarify that this is not an instant solution. So you need to get a better understanding of your own structure and the local policy. So the process will be implemented step by step and it takes time. So whether it's family, individual, enterprise, there will be upgraded or updated needs period by period. So we need to adapt our taxation plan according to the changes of their own needs. And then we could have the special arrangement to their data needs. So in this panel, I think another highlighted item could be that -- one of the highlighted issue is taxation that will come up in every topic that we cover. And I think it could be waived a very integrated and weaved internally with every investment plan. So Ivy Zhang has been working those big 4 companies. And when we try to seek our partners, of the accounting firms, we have expertise to find out the best options.

And then the final speaker of this panel, Michael Chen. Michael Chen is very experienced professional in asset management, wealth management in Noah. And this year, Michael Chen joined our team, and he really is an enabling a key part of our team, please.

Well, I've joined the open day for many years now. I used to do the open day in the 4 markets. Well, this year, I'm here in Hong Kong. So this is kind of a new part for the open day here in Hong Kong for a lot of us are analysts, right, investors in this room. Well, in this BU -- in this independent BU, so the incremental growth came from the insurance and some of the inventory like contribution were really from the commission fee or other channels of the income. While I have 8 policies for myself, 5 from the overseas market, 3 is medical insurance, 2 is like life insurance and now that is a life insurance and overseas market. So it's like a low-frequency product. Well, if we -- well, the key part for us is to acquire new clients, maybe it's not appropriate to acquire new client teams through our RM so we have built a team of commission-only agents. So in the expansion of Ark, this is quite a key strategy for us. Well, there are around 100,000 professionals of agents in Hong Kong. Why do they choose you? Why don't join those big insurance companies in Hong Kong because we don't offer the basic salary. Well, I think while I had this all-night discussions with another specialist, banker who is over 60 years and is very experienced in this field. And he really pays attention to the Hong Kong identity. And he has the Hong Kong identity and he wants to like persuades relatives and friends to come to Hong Kong and get the Hong Kong identity. And then we help those network to get Hong Kong identity, plan the identity and have the asset management. So he has this philosophy of being beneficial to others, be benevolent. So why I took this example. The reason is that he is a very successful entrepreneur. He is highly educated and he joined us as an agent and the core element of ours is to incubating a talent system. While he's very successful renewal already, well after his retirement, he still want to contribute to the society. And so after retirement, he like would like to build his own network of friends in Hong Kong and also make his own share of contribution. So this is really consistent with the ecosystem will need. So we need a big talent team. The distinctive feature that we boast is like -- while this morning, we just -- we had a conversation with the [indiscernible] and he's also one of our team members of the global agents. So we are very capable of singling out those high-quality agents. I think this platform that we built is really helpful to really help those emerging talents or retired talents to launch their second degree -- second career. And for some like they need to get the training to understand the underlying logics of the investment. But these are high-quality talents. They are swiftly learners. They are quick learners. And we -- our team is getting bigger and bigger for the past year. And this team member can really learn a lot from the activities that we organized and they can have a better understanding of insurance and also investment as well. And we also expect that the team members, they can build their own brands, like we have this track record in Singapore and U.S. Some of the agents, they are KOLs online. They can build their own branding. So for the first batch of agents, 80% of the contracted brokers are high-quality professional talents in Hong Kong, and we're going to build this network in Singapore and other overseas market as well. And the entrepreneurial that I mentioned over 60 years old, he's more senior, but the average age of our talent is 35 years, and they all have well-educated holding Masters degree or higher. And they really pay attention to the overall capabilities and what the platform can offer to them, and they would like to like the -- they are reluctant to be an insurance agent. They want to use this platform to launch their second career. Of course, this is kind of a [ pie pro ] process that I made on this deck. And we recruited them, we have them trained and then they can build their own business and build their own branding in the same time. And we would like to do expansion as well. Glory is kind of a provider of a one-stop and comprehensive solutions. We can provide the solution offerings. What we want to offer is platform to our brokers, but also partner networks that we can have. We are serving financial professional institutes like -- has been working, also those who are the other partners or in the peer industry like a consulting firm for the license the financial institutes. We have been working with many of them. The trust, we're working with -- are actually recommended by the [ iBank ]. After getting IPO, the [ iBank ] we recommend us to the trust part. The financial institution, they like to expand their business to the Singapore, and we can seize this opportunity. Second, the big accounting firm and the law firms can recommend the very to needs of clients. I've been working with someone who have been working in the big 4 accounting for before and one of his previous manager and the clients would like to use their trust. The consulting team, they are providing the advisory work for the entrepreneurs on the heritage and passing down the family wells. They can get us in, if needed. We a benchmark ourselves to UBS and other top notch investors, but for many others, they actually drew the reference from us. We want to empower ourselves in recourse and upgrading our operation management and marketing on IQ system, which are quite inspirational for others. One of the private bankers that I've been speaking with this morning, they haven't any trust business at all, but their client has the demand of going to the offshore market. Information system is also interesting. You are working in the banking sectors and the information across the legal service, financial institutes should be integrated. So the information could be flow freely and get connected here. We are working with a law firm that is and researching on the package that includes the trust, insurance and the donation so the insurance is the major driver. The major driver should be driven by the accumulation of new customers and how to expand the traffic flow and full force probably we will recruit a huge amount of the dealers and agents with no guaranteed salary as the bottom salary, but to give them the full more incentives. And that is how our business would like to develop. Glory set it up more channels to connect with the outside world to also replace the demand of the insurance and the heritage demand. [indiscernible] is also the Editor in chief of one of the magazine and the report of our company. I think in your upcoming report of the Chinese economy and the business insight are you going to connect your report with the wealth heritage. I think it's pretty certain that the huge uncertainty has been settled down. That is the U.S. election. Donald Trump is getting reelected. I'd rather not to speak about the overall economy because I know you know much better than me, but for the global strategy, I think we are helping the customer based on their demand. That's why I think the speakers in this roundtable and the panelists for the previous round tables are addressing both at the emerging topics, but also as well as the risk controls. There are 2 kinds of the security of the interest of our customers. The first is the account security. Second is the information security. To go abroad, every client, they need to set up a bank account at the foreign countries. So for example, for some security brokers, they require the individuals to have sufficient income from the overseas place and the bank account before getting on board of the customer. They also requires the consistency in the security and the certainty, the life insurance and the Singapore's privilege are both reflecting those 3 points. So in this June, we reflected this pyramid that has been referred by the previous speech of Ms. Wang, our CEO. Most of the customer, they set insufficient allocation of the safety buffer layer and the U.S. customer set 24% of their assets were as a Chinese customer -- much less than that. So what is the essential demand of our customer. In the first 3 to 5 years, our clients, they are very hesitated. They are very panicked. They don't know what to move forward. Like me I've been interest in Hong Kong for a couple for 1 year. And after this year, I settled down. I just renew my rental contract. So it takes some time to build up this kind of the clientele. Glory has been developing for a considered about the time though is rather short, just 2 years. We found a launch of the area to improve and you can find our improvement in the management structure, the impartment of the technology and also the product portfolio. Besides much more ambitious for 2025, which requires continuous efforts from our team, like Ms. Wang mentioned that she committed to be a start-up company and carry out the entrepreneurship. Last but not at least, let me show us the dashboard, which is also available at the 33 floor at the entrance of the company. This dashboard is also encouraging you and reminding us the quality, the client and our target. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much for your insight of the round table. Now let's move to the Q&A session.

Ms. Gao, would you like to stay on the stage and let's invite [indiscernible] and the CEO, Mr. Yi Zhao and Hong Kong CEO, [ Mr. Pan Xin ]; and also [ Milo ], who are in charge of the Hong Kong business.

I believe all of my colleagues, they are all very good speakers. Thanks very much for the marvelous speech and the pine discussions. And this is the much awaited Q&A session. I've collected some questions from the online webcast and our link has collected some questions from the on-site attendance. Shall we started with [ Alan's ] question? I'm sorry, though I pass my notes, but I don't really want to be -- I don't want to be sharp through raising up questions. Don't misunderstand me. I just want to get more information through Q&A. In your presentation, you mentioned about Monga, Mr. Monga, who has been a venture a seasoned investor because this industry requires the loyalty of the customer base. Like Ms. Monga mentioned that Noah is as conservative as what Monga desires to. If we give the opportunity of investment to Monga, I think there might be 2 concerns for Monga. One is the ROE and ROE in the recent 2 years of no compared with other wealth management company of the world was still rather low. I understand that I understand that, that the company could issue a lot of the currency and they are deep pocketed. That's why you have the 50% of the dividend or asset 50% shareholder returns and the payout ratio. In this way, that will draw down the ROE further because you're burning the money though you're deep pocketed. So what is your target ROE. And what is your outlook on the division and the buyback of shares. And how could you relate to those questions together. The second question or second concern would be the growth potential. The revenue of the company started from 2019 has been rightly has been really stagnated. And the core client base haven't grown much from 2022.

If I bring -- if I would bring this to those questions -- if I bring Noah to Mr. Monga, I guess probably those 2 questions would be asked by Mr. Monga. I think Chinese issue, there is the immigration motivation in China, which has been reflected by some of the clients. But I think your competitive advantage are still in the Mainland China. I think the management team has made very good decisions before like the establishment of Gopher and have to -- and to keep the cash flow and capital flow free never do cash flow and the education for the customers on the PE business strategies. But when you come to a new arena, competing with the international customers and companies, do you still keep this kind of competitive edge? What the management team are relocated to the Hong Kong. If I am based in Hong Kong as the client, but I don't have any plan to go abroad, I might feel frustrated because my RM and the whole management team are both relocated to the overseas places. So if something happens and everything tends to be positive in the Mainland China as a capital in the Mainland China started to show the brighter future. Would you think that China would come back to the mainland by that time, you might spend a big time in the overseas market? And how would you like to deal with that and thanks very much for relate those questions with the source of Mr. Monga. I think ROE should be one of the parameter of the performance for any listed companies but it should not be the only parameters because the book share has been -- has had much more cash flows than us. There is the principle that is to save the money as much as we can and to ensure the ratio, the margin also to get the larger leverage if we can, in this way, we can make larger revenue with more profit. We won't have any loans to be interest, but the next step for us is to make larger revenue and to distribute more profits of development and profits. We could optimize our expenditure. But in the short term, expanding to the overseas market is expensive. It's not cheap at all. Every headcount, if we relocated to Hong Kong, we will pay 2x higher to Singapore 3x higher, but we don't want to be stingy in this part in recruiting talents because we need those talents. In recent years, we've done a lot of the restructurings of the headcount like in the middle and the back office, but we secure sufficient headcount at the French office. For distribution of the profit starting from 2025, we have the dividend payout and the repurchase and buyback to secure the ROE in the healthy condition, but there is the precondition that is strategically the development is resource for us and the balance sheet is robust enough to support the development. As a wealth manager, we are not backed by the government we need a strong clean, resilient balance sheet to give a comfort of the clients, they can then trust of our company and to work with us in the long term.

I agree. Well, I have been working in the financial industry for over 30 years, and I've been like working in this company for 20 years, so the wealth management industry, we are very close to capital. As long as you keep consistent with your principle, then you are in a good position to have a return, have good return and earn money. The reason we keep standing, I think part of the reason is that other competitors they just exited game, and they failed in a game. And we could keep standing. Part of the reason is we are conservative, we are very prudent. I think we are a long-term thinker, and we don't like to aim for the short-term goals. As you said, the stagnation of the revenue in 2019, I mean, the stagnation of the growth rates. Well, I also asked myself the same question with -- without the fraud happening in 2019, we would like fail or be dead because we have learned lessons from this fraud in 2019. Maybe like in 2019, it's kind of a peak year for a lot of other players. Well, I think that is the kind of a peak level not -- it's more than stagnation, and that is kind of a bottom and we have bottom up. We are like recovery and climbing step by step. We were too optimistic at that time. I think all -- most of the Chinese think too highly of them, and they neglected the bubble at that time. So in the hindsight, we have 0 concern about the potential return of the wealth assets we have. As long as we are holding tightly to our principle of our risk management and asset management, we are very confident and have faith in the solid and robust return on our assets. And the ROE is very healthy. And even beyond my expectation, please forgive me, I think it's beyond my expectation. And as you said, it's kind of a cash cow. Well, it's very robust. Well, I don't think we are in a position to exit the Chinese market. It's just we emphasize going global. We want to expand our coverage. We want to like invest in China, and we have acquired a building in China. And we have established our client center, operations center in China. While, a lot of you have visited our offices and headquarters in Shanghai, but that doesn't mean that we are moving. So we are based in China, and we have seen this robust growth of the Chinese business. And it's -- we have enough faith, and we don't think that we're going to tumble even if the Chinese market rockets. So in the primary market in China, we have invested around RMB 6 billion. So as long as we are in a position, qualified to do acquisition and do investment, we're in a healthy position. And I saw a lot of the e-mails like some companies went public and some companies are ready to go public and some of the potential M&A projects. So I received a lot of these e-mails. And that really means that we have good investment projects in hand, and we have kind of a RMB 50 billion in our asset pool. So the majority of our projects are very profitable. One project have a return around 70%. So Noah is never investor-oriented, sorry, but we are client-oriented. If our clients really become poor, then we are dead. As long as our clients have assets in hand, then we have the foundation to keep standing a flush. So I will -- of course, I will safeguard the interest of our shareholders, and we will pay the dividend and do repurchase to protect the interest of our shareholders. So I was kind of persuaded by that. So as long as the stock price is low enough, then we could do the repurchase and really like Mr. Monga and Buffett. And we -- so the sugar there, we can be deadly in a long period of time, but we still want to pay out to give the sweets to our investors like we keep paying the dividends to our investors as our gesture return. Well, Mr. Yi?

While we haven't covered much about the Chinese market yet. Well, in China, we're not never abandoning the Chinese market. It's never our intention. It's always there because like our Olive team spoke English, maybe we give an impression that we are focusing in international market. No. We are just keeping our abreast of the dynamics of the international environment, like the -- and [indiscernible] is focused on like mutual fund and the secondary market, and we can try out all of the strategies to diversify the product portfolio and investment portfolio for our clients. RMB is a part, is one tool or one part of our strategies. Once our clients understand that they can have more options in the international market, then that's the opportunity for us to provide relative service. And glory is our office -- our sector of the insurance part, including global lifestyle and elderly care and insurance and trust. And it's kind of a rigid demand. And we have our asset management team in China, primarily in the primary market. Our investment team now has become the after investment team, paying heed to the -- our inventory asset performance. Like in China, we have around RMB 90 billion. Well, in RMB and PVC is around RMB 90 billion, while the DPI in total is around 0.5%. So half of those has been paid back to our clients. So we have a large solid foundation of the domestic team as Olive team mentioned, like how do we select best-of-class options from 5 dimensions. I think while we are the leading player in the fundraising fund, so tech wise, it's quite universal across different players. But in plus, we have a global insight. We have a global outlook. We can have a clear insight and understanding of the international market right now.

Well, Helen from UBS.

I'm The financial analyst from UBS. Like Mr. Wang mentioned at the bottom price, Noah will repurchase the stock. But how do you define the bottom price? This is my first question. And for the first 9 months this year, we have outstanding performance for the overseas business. But moving forward, if we're going to prioritize or highlight the overseas market, do you think you have any legacy of experience that could be replicated and sustained in those markets? And do you foresee any challenges moving forward?

Thank you for your 3 questions. The first one is the bottom price. Well, for us, we are in the bottom right now. It's not fairly valued. It's still not to the level of equity or other multiples. It's still in the bottom level. How do we like fairly value I think if we see the exclusion of ADR influence, I think that is when we can like decide this bottom out level. And second question is, do you have any legacy or track record experience that could be replicated to the overseas market. And the third question is, do you foresee any challenges? Well, about the challenges, I would like to go back to the year in 2003 when I just founded this company. We just -- when I founded this company, I was 33, and now I'm 53 now. I was very aggressive and ambitious. And maybe today, I'm not so energized as previous years. And I will kept telling myself, I need to keep exercising. Like I will get up at 6 or 7, I'll do exercise, work out. My husband like always said to me, well, you're so energized and you are very disciplined. I think the thing for me is that I need to keep healthy to sustain my work. So I believe I'm even like healthier or in a better shape or condition than many younger generation in our firm. Anyway, we need to work hard. And I think my condition is really good. I still have dreams and I still have ambitions. And our aim is to build a century old enterprise. Now we are only 20 years old. So we need to still take a longer view -- longer-term view and aim for longer-term view. And this is a really good challenge to keep devoted and keep committed. And about the track record experience. Well, I'm also a client of UBS. I'm a client of almost all of the private banks because in that way, I can learn a lot from them. Like I want to learn how they market, how they introduce their products, how do they like market structured products. And what elements are really beneficial or could be replicated in my company. So those experience are like...

What are the experience that could be replicable to go global? What do you mean? What do you mean like successful experience?

For example, like the inheritance that we have built or legacy that we have built in China, sorry, I'm kind of -- it's almost dinner time. I have a very healthy timetable. Well, I just mentioned that I worked out in a gym, at Singapore branch. It's a 24-hour gym, and the service is good. So some of the competitors couldn't provide the 24/7 service. So some of the private bankings like the clients have their own limited slots of availability to talk with you. So what we can do is to provide full availability of our staff and our talent to our clients. We need to be like 100% committed to our clients. But maybe this model is not sustainable. It doesn't -- it may not adapt to the local culture, maybe like in Hong Kong, Singapore and U.S.A. Like in U.S.A., like during the Christmas festival or other like weekends, then they don't want to work for you. They don't want to work in the office and serve the clients anymore. But it's kind of a different culture in China. Like we have different online systems. We have Taobao, like JD.com in China. But in Singapore, I can tell them it takes you like 2 months to get your products delivered in Singapore, and you need to slow down your pace to become a local citizen with a local mindset because you are used to the quick delivery in China, but you're not so used to the delivery time in Singapore. You need to be resilient and patient to get adapted to the local culture as well. And of course, I love UBS. I think all of the private banking, UBS is really prominent in many regards. You're one of the top players. So while a lot of my capital are in UBS, not even in Noah. So I would try to learn the best practices from them. I always tell them that you can compete with my health management accounts both in Hong Kong, Singapore and many other places. I think Singapore team is building up. I have one asset manager in Hong Kong, but it is performing quite good, but not yet the best. I think in Noah, there will be very challenging to be able to serve Ms. Wang because some of them has been disqualified because of their so so performance. Any other questions? I see one hand is up here at the back.

[indiscernible] Asia. So I want to follow up with more questions on Noah's thoughts on GP relationship for next year. You guys have invested in some of the top-performing managers in China and U.S. and globally. So what's the thought for next year? Are you guys planning to keep the current numbers of GP relationships? Or you guys are thinking to expand more? And like what's the factors of driving this decision? Yes, like -- and if it's possible to share -- it would be great if you guys can share more on like what are the focus next year when it comes to the PVC side.

May I reply you in Mandarin. We are really closely connected with GP. Why? Why is the case? First of all, GP when we were working mainly in the Mainland China, we were the largest investment. We were the largest further fund in terms of the volume, and we issued the largest amount of PEVC in the Mainland China as well. Now we shifted to our major market, fund of the fund. We don't do much fund of the fund, but we still maintain really positive connections with GPs. At one summit and one event like today, one institutional investor shared with me a picture and let me know that I found all 5 people participating in this event was previously working in Gopher. That's why we -- that definitely shows that we trained the talent for this industry and shows our connection with GP. Why it's like that? It is related to our comprehensive service and the selection process. Another point I'd like to make that both in the Mainland and the offshore market, PEVC institutes expect more proportion and more penetration to the high net worth individuals. They share this kind of the thoughts. And we know the language, we have the know-how of the high net worth market. Andy has been speaking a lot about it. And Andy has been supported by a team, by a group of the people that reflected the deep knowledge of us. We are working closely with GP because GP thinks that we know them well. We know how the GPVC are working. Every year, by certain times, they will issue new fund, and they want some partner fund of the fund who can understand them well and work with them. That's why we can work closely with them, and we have the loyalty with the GPs. Second, we have our selection process. We are not just investing all kinds of the fund. No, it's not. If the fund is something that we cannot understand, we will not do that. Like Andy has mentioned that even Blackstone is a very big name. We just select the best strategy under the Blackstone at the best time. So we don't just invest them because of their name. We connect them with GP well, but we select with scrutiny, and then we can perform well as the role of gatekeeper for our customers. So we only serve and offer something to our customer after screening on behalf of the customer. Let me share with you one case or one example in the roadshow at our first listing campaign in 2010 in New York Stock Exchange. At that time, we were selected by the fund manager. And at the end, we asked fund managers 3 questions. First, what is your principle of investment? Second, under this principle of investment, how much would you like to commit for if I want to give the score from 1 to 0? And what do you -- what is your understanding about wealth? And most of the answers were that those questions were not easy to answer. And when it came -- because it's related to the higher level of the philosophy of investment -- being able to ask this kind of question is showing our multidimensional connections with the GP. We have different pipelines, different good pipelines and sufficient reservations in the pipeline. So we have ahead of the time planning. I'd like to add a bit more. I'm not sure if I understand your question. Correct me if I'm wrong. I think we are related to GP and working with GP. But more importantly, we -- our mutual cooperation could be beneficial with each other. First, as the LP for them, I will pay there. Second, they will offer the good returns for our clients. So it's highly market-driven. Every GP will be aged sooner or later, when the founder retired or there are some spinoffs, the GP started to decay. And so we need to cover as much as GP -- as many as possible, and we need to monitor the market trends and some of them might not be suitable for the time. So we will get rid of them when it's needed. I think GP industry is facing lots of the challenges in both U.S. and China. The secondary markets are really booming as long as you buy something related to the index, it is definitely good. That's why you found a lot of the withdrawal of the GPs in both markets, China and the United States. There are a lot of the single GP. They are rather small, but investing at the initial stage, it takes a longer time of withdrawing. And we will help them to select what kind of the customers they are willing to invest for them. United States, they don't have the IPO time window. I think if you give the recommendation to the customer and the investment to the NASDAQ indexed products will be always true or go-to option. So what will be the future? -- or I think there is one point I want to mention. We will not fall in love with any single sector forever. We were associated with the real estate sector and the industry. At the peak time, we have very good returns. But when it comes to the wrong timing and I think it is something not suitable for us, we will simply say no to them and get rid of them. Though we have the strong emotional ground, strong ground of cooperation. I will forget about it. I will just focus on the benefits and the returns. I will care about the cultivation of the relationships with the customer instead of the GP. For example, my good friends, [indiscernible] even we come across with them here and there from time to time, but I don't really have the kind of the genuine emotional connection with them. It is -- everything is kind of based on the ground of the mutual benefits. To do -- to be -- we are always looking for something new and for the future. I think the best opportunity is always the future. So I always put the benefits above the relations.

I'm Liu. I'm a fund from based in Hong Kong. Many years ago, it has been mentioned that risk control is the core of the financial industry. It has been witnessed that you attached the great importance on this regard. And I want to ask you how do you implement this kind of awareness to the frontline staff, including RMs?

Very good question. I'm not sure whether it is absolutely true or not. First, our products are concentrated in certain areas. We have been working in both the Mainland and the overshore market. Even though we have the regular meeting on the risk control on every afternoon of Monday. We don't authorize some lower level management on looking at the financial issue by themselves. Probably I don't have much knowledge on the ETF and the REIT and EB5 personally. But I still want to bring those topic to our risk control meetings because we don't like to neglect any details, any tiny things. Compliance and risk control has been attached to a lot of the importance. So every detailed issues will not be streamlined to the lower level of the management. It always -- it should always bring to the Board of the risk control meeting. For the foreign banks, when they are doing the allocation of assets, they are always submissive to the decision to the preference of the customers, but Noah is different. We believe most of the customers, they don't know as much as we are in terms of the financial products. As a result, at a certain time when we think something is good, we influence the decision of the customer and the risk and the asset managers. If we made a mistake, that is very risky, I'm afraid of that, but we respect our own knowledge because the financial products are really risky. So it won't be a supermarket model like the foreign banks, they are doing. They are just simply leave all the decisions to the customers themselves. No, this is not how we do the things. We will not simply follow the rest of the customer. We will let them listen to us. Like Elon Musk said that 95% of the industry are not operated by professionals. I shared my professional ideas to Mr. [indiscernible] and then we have -- then I have -- and every of the management team are learning languages on Tolingo, and we experienced the products and learn language and then invest the shares of the Tolingo. All of those things that we have invested, we have the first and personal experience and associations with those products.

Peter from JPMorgan, is your turn.

Thanks for chance to raising up this question. I'm Peter from JPMorgan. The first question is about the insurance for Mr. Goh. For Goh, I want to ask about the competitive landscape of insurance. What are the changes? And how do you like to deal with those changes? Second is about the overseas market expansion, you set it up the RM teams in both Hong Kong and Singapore. As you mentioned earlier, those RM team are mainly serving the customers' demands transferred from the Mainland China. Based on your observation, what will be the size of this kind of transferred demand? When this kind of the demand will be used up, by what time you will be forced to figure out the demand locally in those places? Third, I think, as you mentioned earlier, most of the customers are actually the business owners, entrepreneurs. They made their own business successful. You have been serving them in the past 1 or 2 decades and with a very sound records. So you also mentioned that you want to serve well for the second generation of those business owners and make them embrace the service of Noah. So in the mid and long term, are you going to consider to expand and cover this kind of the client base? What is your strategy and source in this regard?

About the insurance. In Hong Kong, it's a very competitive market. It's most competitive here. And our insurance strategies include that we don't work with exclusively selected insurance company. Like we have over 10 partners of insurance company in Hong Kong and other network in Singapore and U.S.A. And about the products customized between us, that is also the key part. So this product is customized to Noah and it's only available on Noah's platform. Another thing is our connection with the trust, for example, the Bermuda insurance and some of the trust plus insurance package could be sold to Japanese market and some particular individuals. So based on special needs, we're going to customize our product offerings. And we also see that a lot of the potential clients are not just individuals. They also represent the enterprises like, for example, medical insurance and the like senior dividend insurance and like overseas medical insurance. And so based on connection with the Mainland China, we have seen that the second generation or younger generation of the high net worth families are going global, but their parents are based in China. So we could provide this global insurance options, but the dividends or the benefits could be delivered in China. And also, we have seen some of the regulatory policies released covering like limits of the benefits and also the premium recognition that would be capped around 50%. I think it's a good environment that could be built for Noah because Noah is long-term -- has the long-term mindset. Like we have a very high retention rate around 97% or 98% of retention rate in the insurance, which is the highest level. And we have built this loyalty with our clients because we are not a sole insurance product provider. We are more of a comprehensive solution package provider so this serves with our long-term view. I just ate something. I kind of feel my energy backed up. I think we are running into challenges of insurance today. The key part is competitive. And like it's about the nonstandard policy. So a lot of the graduates in Hong Kong, they are Chinese residents, but it's really hard for them to find a job. So they had no choice, but become an agents of insurance in Hong Kong. So it's like there's a lot of high commission incentive from other insurance companies try to attract those high-level talents, but that's not what we do. Even with the qualification, we don't do cash pooling because it's a bad habit because -- and we found some of the bad habits inherited or migrated from Mainland China to Hong Kong. And a lot of this really failing culture of Chinese cheating other Chinese. So well, even as an individual, it takes 10 years of me to fulfill the premiums of this policy for as long as 10 years. And even I couldn't guarantee that this staff can work sustainably for 10 years in my company, how could we provide a sustainable service to our clients. So I think as a long-term committed brand, we need to stay close to our goal and principle. So we need to provide a safety net. We cannot just provide this high commission incentive by just assigning our -- this high responsibility work to those fresh graduates. We don't do that. This policy scale that we have is not as large as the overseas investment per capita. Well, we can find a sticking point. We need to train our staff. And if the staff or the brokers couldn't meet our principles like you couldn't tell the story of our long-term view to our clients, then you are not qualified because we need to tell our clients with a long-term view and the challenges exist, and we are in the process of tackling those challenges. Like of course, differentiation is one part of the puzzle. It's just we don't want to be sales-oriented. We want to be client-oriented with a long-term view. The second question is about how do we serve better the domestic clients? You mean the -- how do we complete the transfer of domestic clients through RM? Well, we are getting started to setting up branches in overseas markets. And we still see the supply-demand gap for the high net worth Mandarin-speaking individuals overseas market, and that is based on investigations in Canada, U.S.A., Europe and Singapore, et cetera. So we have a large pool of Mandarin-speaking individuals, but they have their needs unmet. This is a blue ocean, as we mentioned. But while this is a promising market, everyone wants to go to get their share of pie, but it requires your capability, preparation and what we can do is to start deploy in those cities, in those markets. Of course, our -- we have our own internal plan. By 2025, we have a goal of like overseas coverage of RBP. So we have already embarked on this journey. Well, for the first part, as you mentioned, we need to be capable enough to take on the Chinese individuals or Chinese clients, those transferred clients. Like we had just held the annual conference of the Black Card clients. Of course, the participants or attendance is not up to our expectation, but we're going to have another annual conference in China. Well, for the annual conferences, we don't even have -- we didn't even have like enough chairs or enough tables for group discussions. So we are on this way to meet their demand, and we only have 146 service centers. That is not enough. And we are trying to explore how do we effectively provide the service. Of course, it takes some time. It takes step-by-step incremental accumulation. And we are like -- well in Hong Kong and domestic markets, we are hiring the local professionals. In addition, we are exploring how do we develop an effective long-term strategy and plan in cultivating the local professionals from the scratch because they can -- they should become and grow to be your core contributor or core staff in the future based on the trainings that you give them, like queuing and other stuff. We have deployed them in those overseas markets to build those teams -- local team from scratch. So time over time, we're going to see these turning points and we will report the updates quarterly, of course.

I think I was here -- I was there with you 10 years ago in Shanghai. And I'm happy to reconnect with you after 10 years and wealth management has gone through major changes. I have a couple of questions. I have witnessed this strong talent pool. Well, in U.S. and overseas market, why do they choose you? And why do you choose them? So can you explain a little bit? Do you have any incentives? Or do you have any appraisal system to single out simply the best of class talent? Yes, I would like to know more about on that. And the second question, why did you invest in property in Shanghai because the current price that you paid, based on the current price, will you repeat the practice in Shanghai in the future? And the third question is, in the next 3 years, you have expansion plan and capital expansion overseas market by around a margin -- by a factor of 3. And the sales team will expand by a factor of 2 or 3, 2. Do you think that what are the drivers for that potential? And are you ready? How do you like build your readiness for the future. And you just mentioned you don't touch the nonstandard fixed income. And as far as I know, a lot of the other players, they are heavily involved in the nonstandard credit. So how do you control the risk? Well, as far as I know, in China, Mainland China, the portfolio is limited. But of course, it's much a bigger market of the product portfolio in overseas market. But in that regard, how do you control the risk? And then about the house view, who will make the decision -- who is the core decision maker? How do you balance out the house view? Is it sustainable enough? Or is it correct enough?

I think I needed to repeat the question for me. Well, why do we buy a property in Shanghai? Because we -- it's in our favor. It's quite promising. Well, for the last 20 years, we always rent our premises. But I think in the latest year, we think we can't continue just expanding without premises. And as we mentioned, we exited the residential real estate based on our in-depth knowledge, and we found this bottom price at that moment around JPY 20,000 per square meters. So we thought that was a good price, so we bought it. But then in the hindsight, maybe that is still not the bottom price. But while today, we are very happy with the property if you -- well, it's in a best location ever, it's close to any of transportation hubs. And Shanghai is like our one of headquarters designed by Roman Foster, same designer with Apple headquarter. So we really love the office building. Of course, it's not kind of a bottom price. The price still went down, but we have bought it. You got accepted. Well, the performance is still satisfactory in Hangzhou, it's a huge building. And our occupancy rate is as high as 95%. So it's really good, and it could save us some tax expenses, and we can set up a lot of service centers in our premise and it's a good location for us to get connected physically with our customers. So it's N plus value-added role. Your first question was about the -- is that you find the new recruitment, they have international background. They are very excellent. So why do you think the -- it is appealing for you. It is -- you are appealing to them. They are over 35. It is rather difficult for this age range to find a new job. So that offers the base to be selective. So -- but it's also a part of the destiny like Jeff Lee, we have know each other for quite a long time. And Jeff at that time, who cannot find an ideal job, and I'm really in need of a position. So we made it. So we don't have a one size fits al standard. But it's kind of the joke. Don't let joke to have the access to that part of my statement. It was a joke. Human resources, that is the area we have invested a lot. We want to recruit the seasoned professional who are -- who is the very -- balanced visions, probably not from the ICEs, but not completely international background, and he knows the different -- the person knows different markets. And yesterday, I interviewed a Caucasian candidate. And Andy said that if you work in Noah, don't you look for the best pay. If you are still ambitious on your career, I think that probably don't let that person to hear this. It's a joke, sorry. It's a joke. We have a very clear human resources policy. First, we have 23 layers of the management. We have track M track and P track for different kinds of the talents. We have another strategy that is one pay is designed for one position. So we have -- so the pay is associated with the different level of the position. And any movement and adjustment of the pay should be correlated to the level and the weight of the position and the final year bonus should be permitted by the Remuneration committee. It is 25% of the total salary based on the performance. We have the share incentives the share price is rather low after 2019, the COVID-19 and this kind of the market situation. For those who remain with us, they should be the die hard fans with our company. And we have the brotherhood and the long-term commitment with each other in the company. So I hope at the bottom price of the -- at the bottom share price, it is good for them. They will hold their shares and they want to share -- sell their shares. We will continue to give the share as the incentive and they will carry on to work for us. The management hold a large portion of the shares. If we carry on like this, we will start to build a time owner or century owner company. Let me share with you my experience. I joined in this company at the age of 40. I -- previously, I was working in the auditing industry. I was an auditor. I thought the auditing job would be replaced by AI, and I was quite conservative before joining in the financial industry. There were a couple of the points that supported my decision to join in Noah. First of all, Noah is a really unique Chinese concept share company. A few of them -- a few company will be -- is like Noah. 100% of the business are included in the balance sheet and the founder does not have any extra businesses. I -- that's why I'm very committed to this company. And this is only the way to make the company sustainable. And because of that, I introduced Andy to get on board as well. And while, probably you are not aware of this, I was working in Deloitte and the United States. I believe in the future, we can gradually build up the partnership and we got the respect, we got the recognition, and probably you might get the best pay at the moment, but when we have some long-term incentives of shares, I think the financial return is also good. It is important for us. I've been working in Noah for 7 years. So why I still feel delighted to do the annual events for the core clients and building up our branding campaigns. When I contact with our customers, I found it is very lucky for me to join in this kind of the client base. They have various experience, different wisdom. We have seen that at the front line, you will definitely find the unique wisdom of human beings. Working as the front line will get you the opportunity to witness those kind of wisdom and this kind of the partnership will be something really promising. 20 years for the financial industry is rather short. If in the long term, we are just at the beginning. If we can make it and get there, what we are doing now will be hugely beneficial to us. So I think I can ask more people, even my next generation to join in. Now it is RMB 8.7 billion. The growth target is over RMB 20 billion revenue with the driver mainly from the sales. Do you think we are ready to make it? Another question associated with that is the private credit, whether they are nonstandard and how to control the risk of them. Probably I'm running out my energy and the blood sugar to keep this event running. We are not in the shortage of the customers. We have 17,000 customers who have the transaction with us. But we have a very limited number of the managers. So every RM is serving a big number of the customers. So just now you mentioned about the transfer demand. We got the license in the overseas market for our domestic RMs, they don't have the license, so they can only refer to the RM at the foreign countries. For the RM in our company, they don't need to fund their customer at this stage. Therefore, I think for the every referral, we give the RM kind of the cash incentives like 50% of the commission stuff like that to make them more invented incentive to make it. I have requirements that make every of your customer know the name of your RM. And if you just make this small step possible. It is a big success because at this stage, we have to admit that the customers, they don't have very good understanding about our company. He shared with me that he can only contact the RM based in Nanjing, not in Singapore. I let them know that we have the RM in the Singapore actually, but the customer, this VIP customers, they don't know that. If we make the best out of the 17,200 customers, we have the same size of the customer base in the U.S., in Hong Kong and in Japan. If we can make the best out of this base, I think USD 20 or USD 30 as the revenue will not be a problem for us. I never study how deep the pockets are for our customers in the past 40 decades. In the past 4 decades, the reform and opening up made a lot of the fortunes for our customers. They have really deep pockets that can be deeper than ever you can imagine. So I never study on this. I just offer the best and the most suitable products for them. And when it comes, they will definitely buy from us. Private credit is different from the nonstandard products in the Mainland. So regard -- in addition to the capital pool, and there is the underlying. And let me take this question though my energy level is rather low. We are proactive in managing the product. I think we are investors in nature. In the overseas market, in addition to those mature products and strategies, we need to be selective in for other products and strategies. So we are looking for the big names, the big managers if the Blackstone bankrupt because we follow the big names. And I can really commit my mistakes, but I think the possibility is really low. Like Andy said that we are not yet the best of the best. That's why we have a great number of the people researching on the equities, the products. We purchased different data base, and we want to get the assets of different insights and to know the words behind the information behind the data. In the Mainland, we have over 40 researchers. They are researching the funds and the macro economy. They are our access of information and our eyes to look at the unique and such messages. And we ask them to come up with their ideas and we consolidate our views. 3 to 4 years ago, we started to concentrate on the Japan. There are different sectors, there are different industries, and we get the comprehensive understanding of the share price trends of different shares. At the beginning of the pandemic, we started to pay attention to YPP because we found this kind of reference and inspiration from our study of Japan, and we started to sort [indiscernible] would be promising way ahead of the time. Those research was graduated from the mathematics, physics department of the PKU or [indiscernible]. So they are under the supervision of [indiscernible] who are researching on the market and the data. With this strong research capacity, they can offer us a lot of the insight. I think when there is the opportunity, I can introduce you guys with this super guy. We have our unique understanding of the GP. We've been doing fund and the fund for rather long. for any fund who'd like to join with us, they have to let us know their track record. That's why we got the unique access of data. For those who did a good or bad job on the investment and their valuation, we have the different set of the data that tells the different story and offer the unique insight for us. My energy and blood sugar is running to the bottom low. So I probably cannot carry on further. I think it's rather the time to wrap up the event and so we can move outside of the venue and enjoy the cocktail reception. Thanks very much to the management team. Thank you.

Before leaving to the venue, please speak to the reception people and get your revenue -- gets you [indiscernible] and you need to scan the QR code before get your [indiscernible].