Nobia AB (publ) (NOBI) Q4 FY2025 Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Nobia Q4 Report 2025 Webcast and Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your first speaker today, Kristoffer Ljungfelt, CEO. Please go ahead.

Thank you very much, and thank you for joining this quarterly result webcast. And before we dive into the quarterly numbers -- and please, operator, if you can take Slide #2 here. Before we dive into the quarterly numbers, let me start by saying that we are very pleased with the strategic steps that we have been announcing on January 14. We are now a truly strong Nordic kitchen powerhouse. With the divestment of our U.K. operations, we can fully focus on our market-leading brands such as HTH, Marbodal, Sigdal, Invita, et cetera. These are brands with exceptionally strong market positions and structurally high margins. At the same time, we are strengthening our balance sheet through a new share issue and by renegotiating our existing credit facilities on significantly improved terms. We have also initiated a reorganization of the business to adapt to the future without the U.K. operations, but also to give our brands the ability to act more swiftly in the marketplace and unlock opportunities for cost saving going forward. The cost for this program was a [ recorded ] item affecting comparability in Q4 and is currently being implemented. As of the result for Q4 then, we are very encouraged to see volume growth returning to our sales after a substantial volume decline that has lasted for 12 consecutive quarters. The positive volume growth contributed to 3% organic growth in the quarter. Volumes are still at historically low levels, but the positive trend is creating stronger momentum in the organization, and we are seeing much higher activity across the product market in general. Judging by these indicators, it is likely that we will see growth starting to pick up more materially in the second half of the year, but we will need to come back on that one in the next quarter. Our gross margin improved slightly year-over-year, driven by higher average order values and stronger mix. Supply chain productivity was somewhat softer in the quarter, mainly as a result of higher transport costs, something that will also be mitigated and addressed with our consolidated supply chain. SG&A cost was broadly in line with last year as we're now facing tougher comparables. However, and having said that, as we embark on the new organizational structure, we expect to have further cost reduction materializing in the second half of '26. Altogether, this meant that EBIT improved slightly compared to last year and despite currency headwind of about SEK 10 million. Cash flow was weaker in the quarter compared to last year, mainly due to timing with exceptionally strong cash flow in Q3, but also because of payments related to several major machine investments that were concluded in Q4. However, on a full year basis, as we will see a bit later, the picture is strong. Our operational cash flow improved by SEK 250 million in 2025. And we then will complete the share rights issue to fix our balance sheet, we will also have the advantage of lower interest rates cost and significantly reduced investment needs as we head into 2026. If we can take the next slide, please. And I will just briefly now walk you through the key benefits of these major initiatives that we have. And for you that would like more of a deep dive, please see our webcast on January 14, where we provided more details than I will cover today. And you will find the webcast available on our homepage, nobia.com. So first of all, the divestment of the U.K. operation has been signed with Alteri Partners, and we're expecting to close this transaction by the first half of 2026. It will be a big reduction of our debt [indiscernible] for leasing cost, primarily related to the store network of SEK 750 million, and the transaction may result in a consideration. To get the deleverage financial profile, we are issuing a share rights issue amounting to SEK 1.5 billion, which is fully guaranteed by our main shareholders, and we expect to complete this during Q1 2026, and Robert will come back on that a little bit later today as well. As I said, we will have improved financial terms with our newly negotiated refinancing, which will be a SEK 2.5 billion revolving credit facilities with our current lenders that have been partnering with us for a very long time now, and this will also give us normalized market-based covenant structures. And finally, the launch of cost reduction initiative, we will also address that a little bit later today. So please, let's go to next slide, which is Slide #4, and it's a wrap-up of 2025. To say the least, 2025 was another eventful year for Nobia in which we made several important strategic decisions while also maintaining a strong focus on driving margin expansion. And although we are not satisfied with 5% margin, which we have in this new constellation, we do believe that we have built solid momentum as we head into 2026. In '25, our volumes continue to decline, mainly due to historically low residential construction activity across the Nordics. To counter this, we delivered growth in our B2C business and improved average order values, which helped us sustain gross margin despite the volume pressure. We also took important steps towards a consolidated supply chain and managed to rightsize our production units to the lower volumes with a result of a broadly flat gross margin compared to last year. We have also significantly reduced SG&A, offsetting inflationary headwinds through targeted cost-out activities, staff reductions and strict discipline in overall spending. And as a result of these cost improvements, we now operate with considerably a slimmer and more agile organization, providing a strong foundation for the future. Adjusted EBIT came in at SEK 299 million, which is an improvement of roughly SEK 140 million compared to last year. And cash flow from our operating activities for the year totaled SEK 490 million, which is also stronger than last year on the back of better earnings and favorable working capital development. And as we turn to the next page, this is a pro forma for Nordics and the group costs, which will remain in the business. And historically, you can see that we have operated this business entity, which is now Nobia going forward, at margins north of 10%, and we are fully committed to returning to those levels. And if you turn your head to '22 to '25, this is a period where we lost more than 40% of our volume and SEK 2.5 billion top line. So again, after 12 consecutive quarters of negative volume development, it's encouraging to finally see growth in the fourth quarter and hopefully, this marks the beginning of a gradual recovery. Regardless of this and how quickly the recovery unfolds, we remain committed, as I said, even at these volume levels to drive margin expansion in line with our financial targets. And we also have proven that we can deliver margin improvements in this environment, just as we have, and you can see, over the last 2 years. And also now with the new opportunities that arise from focusing entirely on Nordic kitchen business, we believe we have a solid platform to do so. And then if we take next page, please. I would just lead you through the strategy we have with unleashing brand potential through a dedicated Nordic kitchen business. If you can please take Slide #7. It's a somewhat busy slide, but it illustrates how we are positioned within the kitchen market. And as you can see, our sweet spot and core is the mass premium segment, where we hold a significant share, thanks to our well-established brands. Our success in this segment is driven by 4 key factors: a strong and distinctive brand proposition, a proven partnership model with franchisees and builder merchants built and refined over generations with what I would say is the best capitalized store network in the Nordics. We have also, with our recent investment, put ourselves in a position where we have a highly efficient manufacturing operation with scale and harmonized product platform. And our people and our partners have a very long and impressive know-how in kitchen designs and consolidation of kitchens at high speeds, which is critical in this space. Together, I strongly believe these elements give us an exceptionally strong foundation. On top of this, we're also expanding into adjacent kitchen segments and dipping our toes a little bit. And for example, we have developed partnerships with electronic retailers, e-commerce platforms and other trade channels, where we offer a simpler yet functional product range. And further into that as we go ahead. Slide #8, please. This is how we define our strategy, and we will also later on in the year come back to more -- give you more information regarding these different pillars. But we split it in 3 strategic priorities and 2 enablers. The strategic priorities are extracting the HTH full potential, capitalize on our country-leading brands with strong customer intimacy in B2B and realizing the potential of a consolidated supply network. We will have the strategic enablers, which is to drive efficiency through complexity reduction, which we are addressing, and a recovering Nordic kitchen market. If we take the next slide, Slide #9, just a little more voiceover of our transformation in supply chain, because this is one of the most important pillars we have going forward to fully transform our supply chain. And we will move from a fragmented setup, which you have to the left, where we had the brands having a specific factory with a specific product range and in some cases, even more factories in the same countries, to a much more harmonized situation, where we have a supply chain that supports all the different brands. And this transformation will bring a wide range of benefits, which you will see on the right-hand side here. It will lower our unit cost, where we have the ambition of lowering conversion cost by 30%. We can do very efficient mass customization at high speed with flexible automation. The delivery precision will be second to none; automated tracking of on time in full, which is so important in our B2B business; sustainability leadership, a thing for the future and where we are already excelling at, and we will just become even better; and then we will continue to evolve in our product performance and designs. If we move to Slide 10, I would just give an update of where we are in this supply chain transformation. So firstly, we now have a harmonized and efficient product range that stretches across all our brands. Where we once had 50 shades of white, we now have one white, the Nobia White. And where we identify strong design elements that resonate well with the market, we can scale them across multiple brands and channels in a highly efficient way. Secondly, during the fourth quarter, we consolidated our Finnish manufacturing into our Danish site in Olgod, significant benefits both in terms of efficiency and from a product range perspective. Thirdly, and maybe most importantly, we inaugurated our state-of-the-art manufacturing facility in Jonkoping in Q4 with over 2,000 customers visiting us over 2 days. Nobia Park now serves as the main producer and the hub for the Nordic network of components and flat-pack products. Last year, we also began shipping Marbodal products from the site, and those deliveries have been ramping up steadily since the inauguration. In line with our long-term plan for this and budget, we still have additional investment to make in the factory of approximately SEK 200 million to continue increasing capacity and improving process flows. All in all, we have taken huge steps forward in our supply chain transformation, yet more work remains to be done. Our priority now is to continue to push forward and gradually introduce more volume and over time, also more brands into both Nobia Park and Olgod. And throughout this process, we will ensure that all new flows are continuously optimized across the network. In the fourth quarter, we incurred SEK 30 million transition-related costs referred to as double line cost in our books. And for 2026, we expect the transitional cost for these supply chain activities to be somewhat lower than the levels we have seen in '25 with the phasing weighted slightly more towards the beginning of the year. And with that, I hand over to our CFO, Robert Belkic, to update everybody on the cost reduction initiatives that we have ongoing.

Yes. Thank you, Kristoffer. If we can move to Slide 11, giving you some more details then on the cost reduction initiative that we announced on the 14th of January. So what we said was we are posting items affecting comparability of SEK 122 million recognized then in Q4. And the bulk of these costs, the [ EFEF ] cost relates to then cost reduction initiatives designed to further decentralize the decision-making within Nobia, clarify the roles and responsibilities after the divestment of U.K. operations, increase the agility and the speed to capture growth opportunities, reduce the complexity and the matrix organizations to minimize overhead costs. And what we are expecting with this initiative is that we'll have a run rate cost savings of approximately SEK 80 million starting from Q3 2026. Another [Technical Difficulty] of SEK 122 million is then the -- as Kristoffer alluded to, the double line cost for transition of volume from Tidaholm to Nobia Park, SEK 31 million is part of the SEK 122 million [ EFEF ] in Q4 of 2025. So with that, I hand over to you again, Kristoffer.

Thank you, Robert. So next slide, Slide 12, is just an update of the market and the market forecast, and this relates to the housing starts that we see in the different Nordic countries. And where we stand today, we still haven't received the Q4 update from the statistics on '25. However, our forecast is that the dwellings now gradually seem to increase. And you see the same pattern in all the different countries, whereas we have had a strong decline in number of dwellings being started. But in '25, in all countries, we see a gradual improvement of the housing starts. And it should be added here that for Nobia to deliver the kitchens to these housing starts would take about 12 to 18 months before we come into the project as we have one of the products that come in at the last point in this. So we do foresee a recovery eventually. And again, coming back to potential in the second half of '26, we see it materialize at a somewhat higher speed. Now over to you again, Robert.

Yes. Thank you, Kristoffer. So if we look at some more details around the financial performance of Q4 2025, and if we can then move to Slide #14, please. A snapshot from the Nordic region in Q4 2025. Yes, we saw pretty much flat sales, SEK 1.4 billion, compared to the corresponding quarter last year. And organic -- which then translates into an organic growth of 3%. And what we saw then in the quarter was that the Project and Trade segment had a slightly improvement in the quarter. If we look at the adjusted gross margin, it increased to 37% versus 36.7% same corresponding quarter last year, so an improvement with 0.3 percentage points. SG&A pretty much flat as well, SEK 314 million versus SEK 319 million. EBIT in absolute terms, SEK 110 million, also flat. And then a slight improvement in the EBIT margin, 7.9% versus 7.8%. If we then look at the items affecting comparability in the Nordic region, it amounted to SEK 110 million, and then once again -- primarily then related to the cost reduction initiatives to ensure that the organizational structure is aligned with the needs of the business going forward. If we then move to the next slide, Slide 15, looking at the financial position of Nobia. And looking first at the investments we did in Nobia Park in the quarter, it amounted to SEK 48 million. And as Kristoffer alluded to, the remaining investments for 2026 is estimated to around SEK 200 million. If we look at the financial net debt in the quarter and for the full year, we had a financial net debt of SEK 2.8 billion, which is then an increase of roughly SEK 600 million compared to end of December 2024. And then also reiterating what we said on the financial position when it comes to what we announced on the 14th of January, we are amending and extending our current revolving credit facilities. We are launching a fully guaranteed share rights issue of SEK 1.5 billion with singling out some of the important dates in the indicative timetable. So 11th of February is the publication of the final terms of the rights issue. 18th of February, we have the Extraordinary General Meeting. The subscription period lasts between 24th of February and 11th of March, and then 17th of March announcement of the final outcome is planned. So with that, I hand over to you again, Kristoffer, to conclude this presentation.

Yes. Thank you very much, Robert. And just to conclude and summarize, I mean, we know our priorities going forward. And we now have to complete these programs that we have talked about, the U.K. divestment, the share issue, the new terms with the lenders and the cost-out initiatives. And this will put us in a very good spot for the true Nordic kitchen powerhouse, Nobia, and to drive progress towards our long-term financial targets, where we look at coming back to growth, 3% to 5% within our financial targets. We look at coming back to our profitability of above 10%. We look at coming back to a better financing position over a little bit of time here at 2.5 in leverage. And eventually, as our financials strengthen, also come back to our dividend policy of more than 40% of our profits. And we will do this through leveraging our leading Nordic market position. We have a fantastic brand in HTH that has a very strong momentum, and we will continue to extract the full potential of HTH. We also have country-leading brands with strong relationships with B2B, where they have had partnerships over generations, and we will continue to capitalize on these fantastic brands. We also now have a well-invested new supply chain network, where we still have a bit of transitions between volumes and factories, but we have a very highly efficient supply chain to support our brands going forward, which we very much look forward to. And then we will continue to drive efficiency through complexity reduction, and we do so through our harmonized product platform we have talked about, and we do so through the cost reduction initiatives that we have initiated in the beginning of this year. And last but not least, eventually, we believe the market growth will recover and then we will be very well positioned with a strong foundation to also deliver on that growth. So with that, a very exciting future for Nobia, and we look forward to any questions that might be.

[Operator Instructions] And your first question comes from the line of Sofia Sorling from DNB Carnegie.

A couple of questions from my side. So just to clarify, the items affecting comparability of SEK 110 million related to the Nordics, I calculate that SEK 50 million is related to U.K. So just if you can clarify why is it recognized within the Nordics and not as a central cost?

Yes. Sofia, can -- if you give all the questions, I'll come back on answering those.

The one related to the posting of the SEK 50 million in the Nordics, if we can connect that, yes.

Yes. Can you hear me?

Yes, we can hear you. I'm not sure we fully understand. We're looking at each other here. We don't fully understand the question. So if we can come back to that after the meeting.

Okay.

Yes, after the call. Yes.

After the call. Okay. And you also expect the transfer of production from Tidaholm to Jonkoping. When do you expect that to be finalized? And can we expect that it will continue to be SEK 30 million in nonrecurring costs until that is ready?

Yes. Again, we now do a lot of transition across the entirety of the supply chain. So it's not just a transition between Tidaholm and Jonkoping, then also between the other legacy sites and Jonkoping. So we expect the transitional cost to be slightly less in 2026 than in 2025 in order to complete these volume shifts.

Okay. Yes. And then can we expect that -- yes, maybe I will address another question then. So during the CMD in 2023, you mentioned an EBITDA run rate of SEK 1 billion as a return of the investments of Jonkoping, and you highlighted that SEK 300 million was related to cost efficiency and SEK 200 million related to harmonized platform, and you touched a little bit about -- on that during the presentation. But can you give some color on like when and how much of these returns will be reflected, perhaps during 2026 or rather in '27 and 2028?

Yes. First of all, that -- those numbers were related to a kind of normalized volume situation. And currently, we have quite a lot less volume, again, coming back with 40% lower in volume. So I think from a value perspective, it's, of course, related to sales as well. However, when it comes to margin expansion, we will still have some transition to do during this year, and we expect gradually margin improvements coming in from 2027 and onwards. And of course, the moment we get the volume going as well, we will reach -- we will strive and we will reach also our target for the long term, which has been the 3, 3.5 percentage points improvement over time. But again, it requires obviously stronger volumes as well.

Yes. Okay. Yes. And -- but over the -- like what would you say is a sustainable gross margin for the Nordic business if we look just perhaps midterm then? Yes, if you look at 2027, would you say that it's closer to 37%, 38%? Or what is your expectation for gross margin here?

Yes. We've never gone out with a specific kind of gross margin target. But I must say that I'm very pleased with how the organization has handled this quite tough situation with the volume decline, because we managed to hold on, and it's been extremely important for us to be disciplined with the gross margins. And we managed despite the volume decline to hold on to fairly okay gross margins still. This is also without the improvements we will get from a completely automated manufacturing in Jonkoping. So obviously, we will see margin expansion coming through from a gross margin perspective. But again, a driver for higher gross margin would also be volumes coming back so that we get better leverage on our assets within both Jonkoping but also the other legacy sites. So we are extremely disciplined with gross margins and we continue to be very disciplined with it. And again, hopefully, at some point, with the recovery of the market, that would also help us in that regard.

Yes. Okay. A question on CapEx. So what remaining CapEx do you have after the finalization of the Jonkoping factory, for example, ERP systems or other project facilities? Yes, maybe if you could guide on like percentage level of sales or in absolute numbers what you expect beyond the Jonkoping factory?

Yes. After we're done with the Jonkoping factory, we will go -- our normalized CapEx levels will go back to roughly the same levels that we have had for this entity, so to say, historically, which is definitely on a considerably lower level, about 2% to 4%, tracking about 2% to 4%. And the investment need that we had before in multiple sites, we don't have anymore. So we weighted slightly higher towards -- if needed to, towards also the commercial side. However, we are not intending to kind of have any big CapEx -- we don't intend to and we don't need to have any [ extended CapEx ] programs after we have completed Jonkoping.

Okay. Okay. And can you say anything of your current like production capacity for the whole Nordics in terms of utilization rates, so we get a sense of that? And ahead, are you looking at closing down more facilities? Or do you expect to perhaps increase volume through new customer relations to reduce overcapacity or potential overcapacity? And -- yes.

Yes. Yes, we have obviously available capacity now with both the new factory and with quite low volumes in the legacy systems as well. That's one of the reasons why we also took the opportunity to close the Finnish factory, for example, and in a way, improving that situation. The transition now of the volumes between the factories is utterly important for us. There are some -- historically, we manufactured absolute everything in all factories we have in the Nordics. We're now going over to a system where we specialize the factories we have, and Nobia Park will be the central of this kind of equation, so to say. So they will be able to handle a lot of different flows. Olgod probably as well to a little bit lesser extent, and then the rest will be highly specialized in a specific process, you can say.

Okay. Yes, a final question. A lot of questions here.

Yes, sure. No worry.

But I just noticed that other central cost was, yes, perhaps quite high in Q4 or relatively high, SEK 38 billion. And I was thinking, given the divestments in the U.K., what do you expect this cost to come down to during '26, '27?

Yes. Like we've said, the cost program that we initiate now is also to adjust to the carve-out of the U.K. And obviously, we still have U.K. in the books in Q4, and it will take a little bit of time to complete this reorganization that we have embarked on. We expect SEK 80 million run rate savings from Q3 in '26. It will not entirely be from the group costs, so to say. It's a net across the group.

And the next question comes from the line of Marcela Klang from Handelsbanken.

You mentioned SEK 200 million remaining investment in Jonkoping, among others, to increase capacity. Can you talk a little bit more about what capacity you're targeting compared to previous normalized levels? Or what kind of increase compared to where we are now you are talking about? And then a follow-up question. Is this to be able to serve new customer segments or new product groups? And what is the capacity utilization that you are expecting ahead?

Yes. When we say increased capacity, it's not above the capacity that we have once communicated for Nobia Park. I mean we are still expecting to manufacture almost 1,000 -- around 1,000 kitchens a day in that factory when we're up and running fully. There are certain processes that we didn't bring in at the first to begin with, the more -- a little bit more customized -- complex customized processes, and those are being developed now basically. So that's the remaining investment. And that's again in line with both plan and budget. In terms of capacity, yes, we have free capacity. It comes back to Sofia's question there on the capacity in the network. We have available capacity in -- obviously, in Nobia Park as we are moving over volume to Nobia Park. We do have available capacity to some extent also in the other legacy sites. But with these different transitions, we will also have available capacity to bring in more business as we go along, both in terms of we want to strengthen our market position and gain share primarily in B2C as we have already very high B2B market shares. Of course, we also intend to improve our B2B business. And we expect to need to have that capacity free for that expansion. There could also be other opportunities that you were alluding to, both within -- as I said, we're dipping our toes in the more -- in the other segments, where we have seen some opportunities. And eventually, but not now -- but eventually, there might be other partnerships that we will build around that supply chain as well.

All right. And then a question related -- regarding the competitive situation in your key markets in the Nordics. How are you perceiving your competitors? Are they aggressive? Are they targeting consumers and the same consumer groups as you are? And would you be able to use some of the available capacity that you have maybe to serve -- to produce for other players?

Yes, there has not been any new entrants in the market these last couple of years. I think every company has had -- every kitchen company has had fairly tough times, and there's been available capacity from existing players in the market. We have kept good market share and we have kept our market share in B2B, and we have gained market shares in B2C by being more aggressive and pulling resources over to B2C. And that's something that we will definitely continue to do. Historically, we didn't really also have capacity in the system. And with Jonkoping, we think we both have the capacity and we definitely have the product specification to drive more customization and at higher speed. So we will be very difficult to compete with going forward. I also think that I'm very proud of the brands we have. They have done a lot of good things during quite difficult times in terms of proposition, the product ranging, et cetera, and not the least on new designs. So I feel we are really well positioned for B2C growth as well. Again, if anything, there has been more of the smaller -- it's been quite fragmented in the slightly higher price points, and we've seen a lot of those players disappear from the market. And it's been our clear intention to drive up average order values by introducing more premium products to the market and also to add items to the basket to increase the basket size. And again, I think our colleagues have done a tremendous job in the market to do that. With a new organizational structure, that is to enable even further kind of and faster growth in that segment.

You mentioned previously that you have been discipline with gross margins, saying now introducing more premium products. The previous guidance regarding operational leverage, that, with the new factory in Jonkoping, you could achieve a 3.5 percentage point higher EBITDA margin compared to previous levels in the Nordics. Are you confident on that? Or do you even think that might be even better with better volumes and better capacity utilization?

I'm confident that we are done with this transition, and we see the market coming back slightly. I'm confident that we will reach those targets. And what I see now is a very efficient supply chain structure being formated, so to say. Of course, again, the -- we talked about the EBITDA as value. It's also based on slightly higher volumes than what you have now in the Nordic markets. But in terms of efficiency, we're there where we should be with this new setup. Again, we still have the full transformation to be completed, so to say. As you know, we have also communicated we will move in HTH volumes to Jonkoping in order to realize that benefits in gross margins, which we're also looking into in the plan. And I think the...

That was my...

Yeah. Sorry. Go ahead.

Please continue.

No, no, I was also saying the -- also the consolidation now that has been enabled with consolidating the Finnish factory into Denmark. These things help also on the gross margin, and that was not even in the original plan, so to say. But it's an opportunity that we have taken. And I think the team has done well to incorporate the Finland business into the Danish organization. And that's the type of activity we will continue to drive performance with.

[Operator Instructions] And your next question today comes from the line of Adrian Elmlund from Nordea.

Elmlund here from Nordea. I just have a few questions, please. So first off, could we get some sort of update here on the capacity utilization on Nobia Park? Kind of where are we now? Are you in line with your previous expectations on where you should be up and running now? And also, if your kind of market recovery expectations there that we saw on the slides hold, when do you expect Nobia Park to have achieved the sort of maximum capacity? Will that -- how long would that take?

Yes. A lot of questions, Elmlund. But again, Nobia Park is expected to do about 1,000 kitchens a day, and we're far from 1,000 kitchens a day. That would have basically taken the whole volume in the Nordics for when the market volumes were normalized. So -- or let's say, it would have taken about 65% in the normalized market of the volumes in the Nordics. So that's not where we're at. We are progressing on moving over the old volumes from Tidaholm factory into Jonkoping or Nobia Park. At the same time, we have progressed slightly ahead of plan on the component manufacturing. So Nobia Park is supplying components across the estate. When it comes to assembled kitchens and rigid kitchens, there's a lot more capacity, but we still have -- we're still operating the legacy factory in Tidaholm, and the transition is about to happen as we speak as well. So there's a lot of things to be done before it's completely -- when everything is completely in place. But again, that also involves moving HTH volume over to Nobia Park. And then we've done something in a little bit different sequence where we have closed the Finnish factory to utilize the available capacity in the Danish network.

Right. Okay. So could we have any kind of timetable on Tidaholm? Or is that -- we'll see that maybe in the next quarterly report?

Yes. Well, again, we have -- we will have the transition cost, which -- during 2026, which will be slightly less than in '25. And that goes for the entire network, so to say. So in total Tidaholm, we're gradually moving out of that site, and that will continue with as high pace as we can. And mainly leading to, I mean, higher pace towards now in the beginning of '26.

Okay. Another question here on kind of the expansion strategy here with HTH. Trying to figure out kind of what in -- like what the strategy look here in practice. And I'm trying to figure out as well how you will manage the kind of brand portfolio going forward. Should we expect that you continue operating the brands that you have now across kind of the full price spectrum? Or will you move down to more premium or the mass premium or kind of move away from the economy segment with Superfront? Or will you keep things as is?

I would try to answer short, I can get lengthy on this, but HTH has a quite wide variety of products, and they are very strong in the middle -- the sweet spot of the mass premium segment. We will both continue to expand the sales distribution footprint for HTH. So Finland has been an important market now when we closed the Finnish factory. We will introduce more franchisees across the entire Nordics. And for us, HTH is a true pan-Nordic brand. They have the ability to stretch upwards. And we know with good design, there's also higher average order values to be had in the higher price points. And we believe that we have that opportunity with HTH. And actually, HTH is a little bit different positioned in the different countries. So we see the higher price points across some of the markets to be very attractive. We don't foresee that our existing brands that are in the mass premium will stretch downwards towards the low-end segment. That's absolutely not going to happen. And again, it's to protect our sweet spot, our gross margins and provide beautiful kitchens to consumers. So HTH will be further developed to that strong brand across the Nordics. Then we have local brands like Sigdal, Marbodal, which have a segment of the countries where they are extremely strong. So take Marbodal, for example. We have 200 sales distribution points through builder merchants, and we have a product assortment that is fit for that customer. That's one of our core customers, and they are doing extremely well. We -- with Nobia Park, we will introduce slightly more advanced product portfolio for this type of customer to both have them selling the kitchens in a more efficient way, but also having them gaining market share against other type of competitors. So it's a little bit different strategy than from HTH. And that's why we also believe that these brands do not compete at some regards, they compete in the local markets, but they also have a different proposition in the local markets.

Okay. All right. The...

Again, if I answered your question there.

Yes, yes. Kind of a quick follow-up to that. Kind of what I was trying to allude, should we have some mix effect going forward? Should HTH drive better product mix for you in the future going ahead this strategy?

Not HTH as such, but it's important again to drive average order values for us. And that would be for all the brands. So just by having one brand grow in front of the other, that wouldn't drive any specific kind of mix shifts for us.

Okay. Fair enough. Last question here, could we have any sort of trading update here for January?

Yes. Like you said, we unfortunately cannot give you that type of update.

There are currently no further questions. I will hand the call back to Kristoffer for closing remarks.

Okay. Thank you very much, and thank you for all the good questions. There were -- we really enjoy speaking about kitchens, and we hope to hear from you soon again. Thank you.

Thank you. This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.