Nomad Foods Limited (NOMD) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

All right. It's 3:45, so we'll get started. I'm just going to read this disclosure quickly. For important disclosures, please see the Morgan Stanley research disclosure website at www.morganstanley.com/researchdisclosures. If you have any questions, please reach out to your Morgan Stanley sales rep. So thank you, everyone, for joining this session. I'm [ Megan Kloss ]. I'm one of the consumer analysts here at Morgan Stanley, and I'm really pleased to be here today with Nomad Foods, the company's CEO, Stefan Descheemaeker; and the CFO, Ruben Baldew.

Well done.

Very good.

For those unfamiliar, Nomad is a leading frozen foods company headquartered in the U.K., and I'm sure we'll get into a lot more about what you are as a company.

Maybe, Stefan, it would be great if we could just start with a high-level overview of Nomad's story to set the stage for those who might be new here. Can you spend a few minutes maybe just talking about the evolution of the company, where you stand today? As we think about the future, what your priorities are?

Well, when we started, actually 9 years ago, we put together the 2 leading brands in frozen food in Europe. I think what we like from the start is 2 things. One is it's a good category, and it's -- we've proven to be right; and second, we're the leader. So the combination of both is -- well, in FMCG, definitely you'd like to be the leader. You don't like to be the #2 and #3, and there is a direct correlation in terms of margin. So that's the first, the starting point. From there, I think we've been through a series of interesting ups and downs. But overall, we always have delivered. So we've been through a turnaround to start with. Then we've been through Brexit, COVID, Ukraine crisis, inflation. And well, every year between 2016 until today, we've been able to grow sales, EBITDA and EPS every year. So year-on-year, despite all these things. So it says something about -- probably about the resilience of the team but also very much about the resilience of the brand, very much about the resilience of the category. And that's what we like. We like this is -- we like being the leader of a good category. I think today, in the food industry, that's absolutely critical, especially at a time where food has to differentiate to define whether they belong to good food or not so good food. We like to believe that we're good food. 93% of our business is about non-high in fat, sugar and salt. 2/3 of the business is about vegetable, it's about poultry, and it's about fish. I don't think you have -- you find a lot of companies doing the same. And I think it's also time now to make -- to accentuate the difference between us, good food and other people. That's something probably for the next 10 years because it doesn't happen overnight. You need to change the perception, but the reality is there.

Great. And I want to come back to a lot of that, but maybe, Ruben, we can move to you briefly. So you joined the company in April, I believe it was.

June.

June, okay. Sorry. Spent 17 years of your career at Unilever. So can you just talk a little bit about what attracted you to Nomad? What have been some of the biggest surprises over the last 6 months, maybe good and bad, if you don't mind? And kind of how are you thinking about the opportunities going forward in your first full year with the company?

Yes. Well, what attracted me from the outset, I knew the brands. I actually started my first role just fresh out of university in ice cream and frozen food, like 23, 24 years ago. But really having started in June, and one of the questions I actually had in the application process was very much how strong is the category. I always believe that you want to play in a category which has strong fundamentals. And I'll come to the fundamentals. But actually, the category we're playing in Europe, frozen food, has outpaced total FMCG in Europe growing 3% in the last 10 years, so more than 1% -- around 1% more than the average. You can have many reasons why that is. But one of the personal beliefs I have and it's what Stefan also said, it's healthy, nutritious food. From field to frozen like in certain countries is within 90 minutes. And then you preserve the nutritional benefits, you preserve the health benefit. It's more tasty. I like food. I like the tasting sessions at Nomad with innovation. So I think then there's benefit of less waste. And probably because of less waste, it's also more affordable for consumers. It's convenient. So I really like the category. That is, I think, what attracted me from the outside, but actually coming in and seeing it from the inside, it actually is more confirmed than I thought. And then we're well positioned, 2/3 what Stefan just said, strong brands. I think also coming in, and I can say it because I haven't done it, is the capabilities built in terms of RGM, especially after years where a lot of pricing has to be taken is quite impressive. So we had some questions today of what do you see inflation or not? But I think we have the tool kit, the capabilities built to be very sophisticated and sharp. How, if and how we're going to do pricing on all levers, promo, normal pricing, mix of that. I think how we're doing CRM. And lastly, I like the people in terms of right mindset, team collaboration, but also with -- we're smaller than some of the other companies. And with that comes more speed and a bit of an edge, which attracted me. So so far, so good.

Awesome. Well, let's maybe talk about something which you both talked about, which is good and bad food, as you put it upon. And there's obviously a lot of talk in the food world today about GLP-1s, potential policy changes with RFK maybe getting into the administration, just general consumer preferences for healthy lifestyles. And I think frozen foods can sometimes get a bad reputation as it relates to how it fits into that -- all of those themes. So maybe just talk a little bit more about how you think your portfolio is positioned for some of these changes and what's underappreciated about it?

Well, you have 2 things. One is frozen food. And when you think about what frozen food can deliver, no additives. No, it's about water and it's about ice and that's it. And then quite frankly, the waste level is great. So it's really -- I mean, in terms of health, it's really great. On top of that, you're adding what we -- where we're playing in frozen food, which is really mostly about these categories. So it's the combination of both frozen food and these categories, well, we're spot-on in terms of I think you guys know, I think Morgan Stanley came with something like early samples of how the Ozempic people, how they eat, what they eat. And what we've seen, it's early days, again. It's -- well, they eat less first, but they eat more of basically good food, which is exactly where we are. I think it goes beyond Ozempic, let's face it. I think it's a big question. It's a question of obesity, it's a question of health collectively, individually. But you know what, I don't know any example of people becoming obese because they're eating too many fish sticks, quite frankly. So that doesn't happen. So we believe that, yes, it's -- and if there are questions about, well, about should we tax bad food? Well, I think it's an interesting idea.

All right. Fair enough. And you talked about this a little bit too, you're the market leader. You're starting to -- you've seen positive volumes, your market share inflection, and this is despite some maybe transitory issues from the ERP implementation. So taking a step back, can you talk about the underlying momentum you've seen in the business? What's driven that? How that gives you confidence as we head into 2025?

Well, the first thing is when you are in high inflation, and we've been in high inflation at the retailer level in '22 and then high inflation in '23 at the consumer level and also the first part of '24, well, it's a great time for private label. I think people are really concerned about their own money. And we're never going to be able to compete price-wise with these guys. And we shouldn't, by the way. I think we just need to really monitor the price difference. RGM is a great tool for us because it doesn't limit us, doesn't -- we don't limit ourselves to price. It's more promotions in all the other tools, which is great. But what we see is, well, I think retailers back in '22, '23 only were talking about price. Now we're starting to talk about quality. We're starting to talk about A&P. We're starting to talk about innovation, and that's the kind of things where in a mild -- in inflation, which is exactly where we stand right now. I think, obviously, people like us, brand-wise, if they're doing the proper job, obviously, have the ability to take market share back from private label, not necessarily where we lost it, but in the categories where we want to gain market share.

Maybe you could talk a little bit about that piece specifically, private label share gains may be stalling because I think we're seeing a little bit of a different picture in the U.S. So how is the outlook for the Europe consumer today? Is there a better environment for food, in your opinion, in Europe than in the U.S. as you think about some of the things you talked about, maybe the opportunity to gain back from private label?

Well, the first thing is back to food and frozen food. Frozen food over the last decades in Europe has been slightly higher than food. So it says something about the people, whether we like the rotation and all these things, which at least they like it and rightly so. And there are reasons because it's affordable as well. In Europe, it's -- well, you have all these things. So I think I would put it that way. I think inflation is going to be milder. I think it's always difficult to predict how you're getting out of a crisis. I think that's also a big lesson with -- we thought it would come faster, but it takes more time. But at the same time, I think we see the sellout and all these things, and it's -- what we see is people getting a little bit more confident. And the difference with frozen food maybe in the U.S. is -- I mean, frozen food in the U.S. is really about pizza and about prepared meals, ready meals. Ours is really about all the things I mentioned. That probably is also a reason we're doing reasonably fine.

Okay. Makes sense. And then you talked about it just maybe in a more benign inflation environment. Ruben, you talked about some of the RGM sophistication. How are you thinking about pricing going forward? Obviously, in 3Q, you had a little bit of an anomaly as it relates to price. But how are you thinking about the ability to price going forward into 2025? And are you -- are retailers pressuring for concessions? Is kind of low to no price growth or maybe even deflation something that could occur in your mind in the foreseeable future?

Well, I would say if the retailers were not trying to pressure to negotiate price, I would really feel uneasy, quite frankly. There must be something wrong with these guys. That's the name of the business as well. So it's -- prices are going to be always a question. At the same time, what we know is I think we're going to rely much less on inflation. Volume is going to be a bigger piece. But as we know, even '22, '23, well, sales were high, but sales were high with a lot of price and negative volume. Right now, our sales are going to be lower, but obviously, with a much better, let's say, combination between volume and price. And we like it. And I think we can do a lot of things on top, obviously, of RGM. But RGM in a mild -- in a lower inflation is obviously going to make a difference. But it's critical during high inflation, it's very useful during a lower inflation environment.

Okay. And I brought it up multiple times now, but the ERP system, and you faced some challenges related to that in 3Q. Can you just -- maybe for those who are less aware, including myself in the room about this, maybe spend a little bit more time discussing exactly what transpired and kind of your confidence level that the growing pains, if you will, are behind us.

No, sure. So maybe 3 things, what happened, where are we now and the kind of interventions going forward. So what happened, we've gone live in our U.K. and Irish business, which is around 1/3 of our business. So EUR 1 billion revenue, 4 factories. So we've gone live a big part for our business as the first go-live wave. And with every ERP change, you change the system, you have to shut down the old system, you ramp up again. And I think we've learned a lot in terms of how the system works, how it interacts with suppliers. We've actually gone live also on a factory where we have a bit limited overcapacity because we see high demand in the market in terms of poultry. Now if you now look where we are currently, service levels have restored. It's maybe less than 1% difference, but we're very confident either in the next weeks, but definitely in January, we're out of this. So I think this is kind of what happened and where we currently are. But I think more importantly, going forward, and I think there are 3 things. As I already said, we've gone live for 1/3 of our business, 4 factories. The future go-live waves, so to speak, will be a smaller size of business. I think it's too early to exactly pinpoint how much, but kind of the current view is that next year won't even be half of this size. So we're going to kind of do smaller ways. The second bit is what you see with these kind of ERP implementation, it's really about training people at the factory line. And it's really about onboarding your suppliers. It's really about user acceptance testing, all these kind of things. So we're going to take our time for this, which means that if we talk about next year, and again, it's not formal and we're looking at scenarios, but it will be in the H2 and maybe more towards the back end of H2. So we'll take time to do this properly. And the last bit, which I think is definitely not least important is we know the system now. We know how it works. We know what I just said, the interaction with suppliers. There will be different things you will find out per country. But because we've gone live for such a big size of business, we are more equipped to know what we expect.

Okay. Awesome. Maybe a little bit more here now, but your implied 4Q guide I think called for sales growth in a wide range, 3% to 7%. Can you just talk about kind of your approach to guidance for the fourth quarter coming out of the challenges you saw in the third quarter? Obviously, price may be not as impactful as it was in the third quarter, but perhaps volume is a little bit better. And maybe because it was a wide range, what was assumed at the high end versus the low end?

Well, I think what we've learned is also, as I said, it's the combination of 2 things. One is the end, the exit of this ERP situation. And second, the fact that the market remains volatile. And so we've decided, okay -- by the way, 3% to 7% is still a nice combination. So I would put it that way. So what we see in the meantime, we haven't received all the numbers in terms of market share, but we've just received Italy, which is a big chunk, I think, yesterday, 0.5% market share in terms of sellout. It's sellout, it's not sell-in, but it's a good start. But definitely, as I said, it's market is volatile, and we prefer to be -- I mean to take a measured approach, I would put it that way.

Fair enough. And maybe we can shift gears a little bit to margins, and you've talked a lot this year about productivity and that being a driver of you've had some pretty impressive gross margin expansion. So what are the sources of the productivity you've seen so far? And how do you kind of think about the road map going forward from a productivity standpoint?

Yes. Maybe first a bit broad on the gross margin. So we've seen that drives in the gross margin is focused on our must-win-battles, which are more profitable, which drives mix. And maybe there are 1 or 2 quarters where that's a bit less, especially going quarter 4 because of a bit of a different supply. But I think if you look a bit more mid to long term, we will continue to drive that mix benefit, which will help in the gross margin. The other bit, if you look at -- which also a driver year-to-date, there are efficiencies in our supply chain network, in factories and logistic warehouses, and we think we have more room to go there. Again, don't think about big factory closures or 200 basis points of increase year after year. But I think every year, we should be able to get benefits there. So those are a couple of examples how we see how we can drive further gross margin benefits, and we call it really fuel for growth. Now how that will fall to the bottom line? Again, the strategy is really to invest in our products, to invest in our brands. So a big part of that is most likely A&P. But if we see that links to RGM, if we see opportunity to actually use some of that gross margin benefit to invest a bit on shop floor and some surgical price investment, we will also look at it. But it needs to lead to a return of volume and overall value accretive.

Maybe just to touch on that. I think correct me if I'm wrong, but you stated the goal to end A&P around 4% of sales this year, and you've talked about wanting to increase that. So as you think about A&P, do you have an idea or are you thinking about what the right level for A&P is? And are there certain brands and categories that you're looking to invest in more than others or markets?

Well, where we're going to invest more than others, definitely, it's going to be the newly defined in our must-win-battles. And we've done this in the past. For those who have monitored us and followed, we've been with us for quite a number of years, we started with the concept of must-win-battles something like 9, 8 years ago. And we said, we don't have enough money to reinvest behind everything. And by the way, the very definition of strategy is to decide where you're going to invest and where you're not going to invest, simple. And so we decided, okay, 2/3 of the business is going to be must-win-battles, the best and brightest categories per country. In other words, again, back to leadership where you have the biggest market share and the best market, the best gross margin. And we've invested all A&P behind this and obviously, all the talents and all the rest of it. And we've seen this every year. This category is growing by 5%. The rest is growing by 0% and sometimes declining, which is absolutely fine by us. Because at the same time, you see that the margin is improving and is increasing. What will happen after 6, 7 years is, well, the 2/3 became 90%. So again, you need to do the same exercise, which is how can you be more choosy in terms of putting your money, your A&P money. And so we've come up with a new range of must-win-battles, really the best and brightest plus what we call the growth platforms, which is 1 or 2 maximum categories per country, where we think with persistence, with patience, with investment, these companies' categories are what it takes to get to become a must-win-battle. Like, for example, poultry in Italy, which is a category we're building almost from scratch together with the retailers. And that's exactly where we're investing A&P. The question is how much A&P should we invest? Well, we started to reinvest in the second half of '23. This year, we're investing much faster than inflation, much faster than sales. We're going to do the same next year.

Fair enough. Chicken, you mentioned in Italy. Can you talk a little bit poultry, I think you'd like to call it. Can you talk a little bit about the progress there? Any metrics you can share from a share standpoint of where you are and benchmarks to think about what the incremental opportunity could be?

Well, I think we like overall above and beyond Italy, by the way. Italy, Germany, U.K., we like to -- the nickname for us in terms of poultry is going to be the new fish. So that's the big thing. We're not there yet, but we can see, by the way, that across the board, by the way, not limit to us -- limited to us, you see that the -- let's say, the growth of poultry consumption in Europe is really remarkable even compared to fish, which is more expensive, by the way. Poultry is coming with the right components in terms of protein. It's healthy, it's very versatile in terms of what you can do with the product. And what we have in the U.K. is remarkable. And then in Italy, I think you're starting from scratch and you have -- I mean, numbers like 40% plus 5 to 50%. Again, a bit of marketing numbers starting from a lower level, obviously. And so these numbers are going to slow down at some stage as obviously, it's going to be bigger. But definitely, we're going to grow much faster, and the trade likes it. The trade likes it because it's a good margin business for them. We're starting something new, so it's a win-win.

And do you have the capacity?

Yes, we do have the capacity for the next 2.5 years. We actually -- we invested behind a new big line 2 years ago in the U.K.

Okay. Great. Maybe we can just shift big picture to innovation. It's certainly been a bigger focus and you've talked about it a little bit. But can you just, again, maybe if we take a step back, talk about how your process is related to building that innovation pipeline where the ideas are sourced, how that's changed over the last couple of years?

Well, let me start with -- let me -- that's a good segue with poultry in Italy. And now I may shock you, but I would say poultry in Italy coming from what we have in the U.K., which is basically an adaptation, a bit of changes because for the Italian, let's say, taste, it's an innovation for us because for the consumer, in Italy, it's an innovation. And what I really like about it, it's an innovation that is already proven in other countries. So what we see is innovation, don't get me wrong, it's exciting, it's great, you need it. But the success ratio is obviously smaller than renovation, by definition. So here, basically, we have something which is proven. And so what we have is it's a lower-risk innovation, this lift and launch. And we have a lot of examples within the organization where we have some great products in some countries, we believe there could be a must-win-battle or growth platform in other country. We're adapting, if needed, the product and off we go. In the meantime, we're also starting -- we believe -- we're working on our strength. For example, next year, probably Q3, Q4, we're going to come with frozen food really dedicated to high protein. And we have what it takes. So that's kind -- these are examples of the kind of things we're going to do. On both, we're feeling very comfortable. It's going to be a success.

Awesome. I want to pause there just to see if there's like 10 minutes. Let's see if there's any questions in the room. Any brave souls?

Your efforts in ice cream, are they foreshadowing in any way or...

No. No, no, it's working well.

I just want to repeat to the webcast here. So your efforts in ice cream, are they foreshadowing in any way?

Yes.

Foreshadowing, what do you mean?

Yes. Do they suggest that there's greater ambitions inside of ice cream?

Inside ice cream. Well, for example, if you're asking me, well, are we going to build the Ledo brand, which is a great brand in Croatia. Are we going to introduce it in the U.K.? Absolutely not. That would be totally contrary to the concept of must-win-battles. I think you're dealing in the U.K., for example, with big guys like Unilever, even if they're trying to sell their business with Magnum and then Froneri, we're not going to do this. However, we've been surprised. For example, the trade in Austria, ask us, we would like to have your brand in Vienna. And why? Because basically, there is a community of 500,000 Croats in the country. So we're going to do this. But again, we are a strong believer of being a leader in a category. And so building a category from scratch like this in countries which are very mature already and where the big guys are there, we're going to waste some money, and we don't want to do this.

All my questions would have been [indiscernible] since we are worsening opportunities of acquisition.

For the acquisitions, yes, there are the opportunities in -- well, the first thing is, are we obsessed by becoming big for the sake of becoming big? No. Absolutely not. So we like this positioning of being the leader in a good category. The category has what it takes to grow organically. And there are also some other businesses that we could acquire or categories where we are present in some countries. For example, we did it in the U.K. with pizza and with the Yorkshire pudding, and it generates a lot of synergies, which is great. Or we could acquire a new business like Findus Switzerland, which is the leader. So 2 different businesses, but again, very focused behind the frozen food. We're not going to deviate from this. You still have a sizable number of opportunities. At the same time, well, we were talking to an investor today who has a good business, local business, good brand, leader brand in a given country. Well, the asking price was 12, our stock price is 8. Well, the math do not work. The math are working when we are trading at around 10 and we can buy something at 10.5. And then we know that with all the synergies, we can bring the final price down to 8 there or thereabouts. At this stage, doesn't work. The best acquisition we can do at this stage is buying our shares.

And by the way, I'm not cross-selling and also linking ice cream. It's a great business, great ice cream business, high premium. But the brand Stefan just alluded to is also branded frozen food. If you talk about cross-selling, we have quite a bit of expertise in frozen food, fish, vegetable. So actually leveraging our product capabilities into this market because we have both go-to market access, and this is how we look at that.

Is it changing a little bit of your logistic system ice cream back in Austria now? Or...

No. No, it's very simple. It's been produced in Croatia, and it's been sent by truck to -- it's basically it's #2 and #2 retailer there and well, in their DCs, and it's working well. No, it's good. It's -- and by the way, we're taking a bit of space during the summertime, which is great. So we like it.

Anyone else? No. Maybe related to some of these questions, anything -- maybe just big picture, how does -- it's been a few years since you've done an acquisition. So I understand the math doesn't math 12x, 8x. But how does M&A kind of fit into your priorities today just given your history with...

Well, M&A is my background. So I like M&A. I don't love M&A. In other words, I'm not going to fall in love with a deal for the sake of a deal. I think I'm taking a very surgical approach behind the M&A. For the first 3 years, between '15, '16, '17, we have no right to play in the M&A game because we have first to build our business, the business model. So why would you do M&A when your business is not in the right order? Then we had this M&A period between '17 and '21, I would put that way, 4 years, fine. And we did 4 deals in 4 years. Since then, I think we -- the first 2 years, '22, '23, quite frankly, I think we had other things to do during that time. We just had to make sure that we would go through the pricing increase and all these things. So -- and any way, the market was gone. Since then, it's starting to come back. But again, I think it's going to be -- if these guys are able to sell their business at 12x, good for them. Well, it says something at some stage, we should consider the investors, why don't you buy our shares at 12x, that some stage. And if they don't buy it, they don't sell it at 12, then we have a conversation later. But we're not going to -- I think we have a good track record in terms of M&A by being focused but also by being rigorous, and we're not going to change this.

How -- what's your appetite to get more into the U.S. market?

Well, let me start. I purposely started with we are in a category that we like. It's a good category, but we're also the leader in every country where we are. To be the leader in the U.S., well, it's a big thing. And we don't want to be the #3, the #4 because I can tell you, in all the FMCG business I've seen, including, by the way, retail, be the #1, maybe the #2, don't be the #3. So then you're talking about big business. And well, some big business are there. But again, I think it's a question of currency. And at this stage, we don't have the currency, it's a fact. And then you can decide to cry about it or then to be about -- or you have to decide, okay, fine. Well, let's go, let's move on, let's deliver. Let's make sure that we're coming with the right guidance next year, which is something that I didn't do well this year. And then let's move on. And then well, every multiple point is going to help, and it's -- by the way, it's worth our dollars.

Okay. Going back to the good food versus bad food, I think we talked in an earlier meeting about the definition of process and I think inherently, fish sticks are technically a processed food. So what are you focused on? This is more, I guess, a medium, longer-term question, but what do you -- how are you participating in educating and lobbying and things of that nature to make sure...

More and more, we're becoming vocal, I think, and we don't want to limit ourselves to the U.K. I think we're working with all the -- all our leaders in the countries to make sure that they're going to deliver this message, not only to the media, media is an important piece, but also to the trade. Trade likes it. Trade likes it. It's back to day values in terms of, again, I mean, good food. I think the trade doesn't like the idea that they're going to limit themselves to non-processed food. I think it's difficult. And by the way, I'm not sure that -- it's remarkable, not very scientific. But -- and also, is it realistic, feed the whole population in the world with non-processed food? Well, that's a bit difficult. And I think what we've done is, for example, in pizza, we've reformulated -- our business was really -- was too high in terms of fat, sugar and salt. And what we've done is we reformulated -- while respecting the taste, we've reformulated all our pizza. They're all now below the level. We're very proud of that. That's reformulation. That's not a bad word for me.

Are there any other categories where you might think or need to do reformulation? Or you feel like you're good at this point?

I think it's a never-ending story. I think there are always things that we can do better. And so as I said, besides ice cream, which is 5% of our business, 93% of our business is -- it's a U.K. definition, sorry for that, but it's a non-high in fat, sugar and salt. So non-HFSS, it's terrible. UPF works better, by the way, from that standpoint. We still need to find something which is a bit more catchy. But it's scientific there anyway. So 93%, well, the ambition is to keep that level or even increase sometimes aside from any acquisition where we obviously have to come back to progress not at the expense of taste. So that's a very important piece. We want to be affordable, we want to be healthy and we want to be tasty. I think the big learning also from also the -- what we also -- we've seen in terms of plant protein, which was sustainable but more expensive, not necessarily tasty at that time and also, by the way, in terms of ingredient, debatable. I think we all have learned from these lessons. And I think these 3 things are very important for the consumers, taste, price and health.

Makes sense. Okay, We probably have time for one more. Anyone, any brave souls in the room? Anyone else? Okay. Then I'll end maybe on a softball that we've already -- maybe we've already answered, but what do you think is the most underappreciated part of Nomad's story today by the investor community?

Well, I think you know, that way, I think the market doesn't see the growth that is the underlying growth in this business. I think we suffered from the risk profile of the business increased during the war with the question of fish and all the rest of it. I think we have totally changed the whole thing. Obviously, with the fish, by the way, with new acquisitions, with fish growing -- chicken growing faster, has moved from 42% to 1/3. And by the way, our dependency on Russian fish has decreased as well so that the risk profile has really decreased a lot. And I don't think it has been -- what we lost has not been regained. And second is, well, I'm starting with what -- I'm going to finish with what I started where 9 years of growth, sales, EBITDA, EPS, you may say, well, the past is the past, but at least we have a good -- we have a very good track record. And we think this combined with a good category and leadership, we have what it takes to grow in the future, which is not in the stock price right now.

Awesome. Great place to end. Thank you, Stefan, Ruben, for being here, and thanks, everyone, in the room and on the webcast for joining.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.