Obrascón Huarte Lain, S.A. (OHLA) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good day, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the results presentation of OHLA corresponding to the year 2022. We begin this event, giving the floor to our President, who will convey a message on the general perspective and part of the company in the last 12 months and the future growth expectations.

Good day, ladies and gentlemen. Please allow me thank you for participating in this results presentation corresponding to the year 2022. We are carrying out this event remotely, and I do probably as for not being present in this event are the headquarters of the company in Madrid. In this regard, well, the CEO and the rest of the management team of OHLA will be available to answer any of your questions. Before I focus in the achievements of OHLA in the last 12 months, I'd like to thank the nearly 25,000 employees of this company for their commitment and effort, especially; I'd like to do that after a difficult year, full of important achievements. Together with the great performance of the OHLA team, I need to refer to the support of our stakeholders that has allowed us to achieve our main targets. Next, I will give a general overview of the company's evolution. We have obtained a record in our total project pipeline exceeding EUR 7,000 million, best year since the year 2015. We have boosted our concessions activity, and we have kept working to reduce our debt, which is something we will continue focusing on in 2023. We have achieved all these milestones by reinforcing our presence in 3 reference geographical areas. The U.S.A., where we have achieved a total pipeline of EUR 2,830 million with great projects such as Purple Line. And in this country, I'd like to say that OHLA in the last 10 years has participated in contracts for around EUR 2,600 million to improve New York transport. In Latin America, we have more than EUR 1,760 million of total backlog and new contracts in Mexico, Peru, Colombia, and Chile. I need to highlight the awarding of projects and concessions in Colombia and Chile to promote road and social infrastructures. The company has had experience for more than 100 years. And in Europe, we have a total pipeline of more than EUR 2,400 million with new infrastructure contracts in Spain, the Czech Republic, Norway, Ireland, or Sweden, where we are the biggest contractor in the Stockholm underground, and we're prospecting in one of the most advanced railway detection projects. The technical excellence of our projects has been reflected in obtaining important awards from Europe to the USA, including Latin America [Audio Gap] infrastructure carried out by Huarte Lain. Chile has achieved important recognitions. And we have achieved that thanks to our belief in methodologies and innovating solutions that favor efficiency in productive processes, safely economy, and biodiversity protection. In the slides, we are currently showing, you may see the awards given to projects as relevant Canalejas Center in Madrid, the Curico Hospital in Chile, and many other infrastructures, single infrastructures in the U.S.A., Colombia, Ireland, or the Czech Republic. I'm closing this presentation, sharing our forecast for future growth, a growth that we will achieve together with ethics, transparency, and good governance. Economy development, social advancement, and the welfare of citizens depend heavily on infrastructure investment. It is not the first time we hear that in the world, we need to invest in housing, education, health, leisure, and single-spaces so that we can live in communities that favor progress. At OHLA, we will keep working to promote sustainable, safe, and quality infrastructures using resources with greater efficiency and effectiveness. Together, we mean sustainable development goals of the UN and we will do that to the support of the collaboration formulas for public private partnerships that represent a convenient investing alternative due to the impact in public deficit and management efficiency. Also with the support of the revenue infrastructure programs in the U.S.A., Latin America, and Europe. Because of Europe, specifically Spain, I need to say that today more than ever, we need to activate the next-generation funds. It is essential to pair receiving the funds with their arrival to the real economy. I go finish this presentation, highlighting that after the arrival of the Amodio family in the OHLA Capital 3 years ago after exceeding our initial target of stabilizing and getting the company to grow. Our target hereafter is to increase its margins through the promotion of different business lines to obtain a higher growth in terms of profit without forgetting our firm commitment to lower debt. I am sure that we will achieve that with the support of the talent of our teams and their excellence when it comes to creating avant-garde infrastructures. Please rest assured that we will keep working to give the maximum value to our employees, investors, shareholders and society at large. Next I'll give the floor to the CFO, who will detail the results of the company in this year 2022. Thank you so much for your attention.

Thank you, President. Well, today in this event, we have Mr. Tomas Ruiz, General Corporate Director; and Mr. Jose Maria Sagardoy, General Economic Financial Director. And we will all be available for the Q&A session after this presentation. Before I give you the details on the company's evolution in the year 2022 and in line with what the President mentioned, I'd like to share my deepest gratitude to all of our team. No doubt they have been the stars of the year where operatively, we have exceeded our targets. We have strengthened the company from the business perspective. Especially, I'd like to refer to the important task of our team in Turkey for the support work in human interim where they have carried out after the tragic and devastating earthquakes in Turkey and Syria. I'd also like to remember the Ukrainian people, one year after the beginning of the Russian invasion and to highlight their courage in defending and protecting freedom, international order, human rights, and the rule of law. After this brief introduction, I'll mention that the topics that I will deal with in this presentation. First, I'll refer to main milestones and figures of the year 2022. Secondly, I'll focus on the evolution of the company's liquidity. Focusing that we're very close to the operating cash flow generation. And I will also highlight our firm commitment with reducing debt. Now we finish, we have in first to the forecast for the year 2023 to focus later on the biggest strategic objective of this company in the short to midterm road map, which will be marked as I've mentioned, a new boost in reducing debt for the OHLA group. As the President has mentioned, OHLA has finished the year 2022 with important operational results, exceeding our forecast regarding the macroeconomic parameters of the company. And we have achieved that in a year marked by inflationary pressures, the tightening of economic and monitor conditions, the Ukrainian war, the tensions in the energy area, and the evolution of the global economic activity that is sending to a slowdown. Thanks to the work done in the last 12 months, we have achieved important things. Our sales have been above EUR 3,250 million versus the more than EUR 3,000 million that we have set as a target for last year. We have achieved a record in contracts in the last 8 years with nearly EUR 4,300 million awarded. That represents a great advancement versus the EUR 3,500 million plan for contracts in the short term in the year. Our total pipeline, therefore, exceeds EUR 7,000 million, the best figure since the year 2015. Our EBITDA has been above EUR 140 million versus the EUR 110 million planned for 2022. And that reflects the good evolution of the business operationally. We have promoted our concession activity line, adding 2 new assets under management. The Roadway Corridor Accesos Norte II in Colombia. And the enlargement, the expansion of the hospital Niño Jesús in Spain. We have reduced our leverage until we place it in 3.8x EBITDA, confirming our commitment with that decreasing debt. And thanks to that, we have set the basis for future growth. Next, I will focus on the evolution of the main figures of the group in the last 12 months. Sales have been at EUR 3,259.7 million, 17.3% more regarding 2021. EBITDA closed the year 2022 at EUR 114.1 million, 25.1% more than in 2021. The EBIT amounts to EUR 45.8 million, nearly doubling the EUR 24.5 million of 2021. That is 86.9% more. And the net attributable profit reflects losses of EUR 96.8 million. This year has been affected by a specific one-off accounting impacts, such as the reasonable value accounting effect of bonds, the exchange rate differences and the value adjustment regarding the our stake in the Canalejas Center Madrid. If we exclude this impact, the natural attributable profit would have been minus EUR 21.2 million. Regarding the evolution of different divisions from the P&L account perspective, construction has achieved sales of EUR 2,709.3 million expressing a growth of 21.3% versus the 2021 figure in an EBITDA of EUR 129.3 million advancement of 28.7% regarding 2021. The division improved its margin up to 4.8% of sales. This profitability is higher than what was achieved in 2021, considering the improvement trend that began in 2018. Regarding services, we have sales growing at 9.1%, up to EUR 394.3 million. And that presents a decline in EBITDA of 27.2%, placing it at EUR 11.5 million due to a one-off extra impact. It is a one-off of EUR 3.5 million, the vision had to face last December after a Supreme Court ruling. Industrial finish the year 2022, with sales of EUR 130.6 million, 21.1% less than in 2021. This division is undergoing a great transformation and it is focused hereafter in renewable energy projects. And it shows an improvement in its margins throughout the year, placing them at 3.4%. The result of the production of these assets. From this division, we have a firm commitment to consolidate a highly specialized team in developing these kinds of projects. From the balance sheet perspective and to sum up the 2022 year, we highlight the important reduction of the gross financial debt and the total recorded the predisposition, which is something that I will explain in the next slides. Now I will focus on 2 of the pillars of the company. Contract and the pipeline. In the year 2022, the total contracts of the company has been 4,273.7 million. That is 15.6% higher than the 2021 figure, and that is the highest you since the year 2014. OHLA has closed the year 2022, with a total pipeline of EUR 7,034 million diversified by geographies, types, and projects. These total portfolio amount is best figures since 2015 and represents a growth of 21.1% in comparison to the year 2021. The order book for construction reaches EUR 5,807.3 million, that is 21.1% more, representing a coverage of 25.7 months of sales the construction contracts in the year were 16.2% higher than in 2021, amounting to EUR 3,576.8 million. Among the main construction contracts achieved in the year, we have in the U.S.A., as President mentioned, we need to highlight the light train in Maryland on as a Purple Line, one of the biggest railway projects have been built in the U.S.A. avoiding the commute of 17,000 vehicles lately. To that, we are other relevant initiatives in the New York underground that would allow us to keep increasing our portfolio in this country where we have a successful track record of more than 16 years. Latin America need to refer to the work in the Chile underground and building the concession of Accesos Norte II in Colombia. Nearly 8 million inhabitants will be able to benefit from that corridor that aims to improve the mobility and to get rid of traffic jams of vehicles that travel the Bogota and the connection of the capital in the Northern country. And in Europe, I'd like to highlight our firm commitment in building sustainable mobility projects, such as one we're doing in Spain with actions in high speed. Also in the Czech Republic with railway corridors and other active projects in the railway sphere in Norway or Sweden. On the next slide, you may see the relevant growth of EBITDA since 2018, which reflects the great effort carried by the company from the operational management perspective and also from the products perspective, focusing on controlling risk, developing active management of the capacity of the guarantees and bonding lines focused on the activity in our 3 business areas. Likewise, the closure of the year 2022, as I've mentioned at the beginning of my presentation, the gross financial debt EBITDA ratio is 3.8x, including in this figure, the bond repurchase offer that we have closed this very month of February. Regarding the evolution of the company's liquidity, OHLA has finished the year 2022 with a total liquidity position of recourse of nearly EUR 700 million. As you may see on the slide, the group has improved the control and the management of liquidity since the year 2018. In this regard, it's relevant to refer to fact that we are very close to positive operating cash flow generation. In 2022, the cash flow consumption of the activity amounts to EUR 49.2 million, 26% lower than in 2018. We need to highlight that this consumption in 2022 is a consequence of specific factors such as the delay in the recoveries of some clients by the fall in 2022 that eventually happened at the beginning of January 2023. Taking all that into account and softest, the company is very close to positive operating cash flow generation before investments and divestments. Regarding the evolution of gross debt. As you may see on your screens, we have improved our capital structure since the year 2018. OHL has reduced this gross debt in 2018 in nearly 37% and finishes the year 2022 in pro forma terms in EUR 449 million; EUR 412 million in bonds, which is a big that includes the repurchase of this month of February and EUR 37 million in policies and others. It is a very relevant figure, taking into account the nearly EUR 700 million of gross financial debt with which the company finished the year 2020. Among the main milestones of the year 2022, we have the total cancellation of the credit with ICO guarantee that amounted to EUR 54.5 million and a repayment of EUR 43.1 million of principal of a bond repurchase offer. Something that happened after 2022, as I've already stated, last February 20 of this year 2023, we formalized another partial bond repurchase for amount of EUR 33.5 million after receiving the funds coming from the delayed recoveries of the Old War Office project. Since as all of you know, our commitment with reducing the leveraging has been and will keep being firm and decisive to advance towards sustained growth. For that, I am now announcing that we'll proceed to accelerate no strategic divestments of the company, such as services, the CHUM Hospital in Canada and our participation, our stake at the Canalejas Central Madrid. – consolidating our efforts in our main business activities, which is construction and concessions. For all that, we keep working at OHLA, and we are in accordance to our sustainability 2022-2024 plan. That said, our strategic priorities in ESG terms of these environmental, social and governance. In that way, we advanced towards sustainable growth, promoting decarburization of the economy through fighting climate change; the belief in secular economy, innovation, transformation and biodiversity protection in all of our projects. Responsible management, we focus on ethics, good corporate governance, and the reacting protection of human rights as well as transparency has great assets of the company. Social progress. We keep working to contribute to the growth and welfare of the companies where we are present, boosting local economies and generating shared value. I am now beginning the end of this presentation; we would like to share with you our midterm targets. First, our focus on achieving the milestone set since the year 2019. And that year in February, I made the first presentation to the market since then the evolution of the company has been constant. Between the year 2019 and 2022, sales have grown more than 10%. EBITDA has grown in more than 76%. Gross financial debt has been reduced in more than 40%. Leverage has gone from 11.3x to 3.8x. Contracts have grown in more than 60%, and the total pipeline has grown in about 30%. All these figures reflect the transformation of the company in the last 4 years. But no doubt, we will keep working to reach sustained growth. Next, I will mention the targets of the company for the year 2023 in operational terms. In this regard, our forecast is to achieve sales around EUR 3,450 million, and EBITDA higher than EUR 125 million, and contracts above EUR 3,600 million. Regarding our business lines for 2023. In construction, we'll keep reinforcing our portfolio with new projects awarded in our geographical areas of reference, where we have great experience in the civil works and singular buildings. In services, we will reinforce our position and more valid value in the sector with the support of the transformation. We have recently implemented in Spain, cardinal and versatile solutions that are proprietary and pioneering in our country to improve urban climate management. In Industrial, we will focus on renewable energy projects, where we expect to add new awards. Currently, the company already has more than 25 projects of renewable energies. Some of them have been built, those are being built now in Europe, the Americas, and the Middle East with a total installed power of more than 1,200 megawatts. In concession after the recent awards in Chile, Colombia, and Spain, the Chilean public works department has usage design, building supply and installation of metal equipment, and maintenance of the National Council Institute in the city of Santiago with an investment higher than EUR 300 million. In development, we highlight our growth experience in hotel tourist resorts that have a great heritage value such as the case of the Canalejas center in Spain. Once we've mentioned our forecast, I'll next refer to the road map that will have the strategy of this company in the midterm. Ladies and gentlemen, this road map includes no doubting superiority, promoting the reduction of that of the company, the new global financial scenario with a more aggressive monetary policy that tends to normalization is forcing us to as anticipated specifically. In that way, we'll work in the short and medium term to reduce our gross financial debt below 2.5x EBITDA, which is something that will allow us to have an improvement of our credit rating to achieve financial operational stability, to partially totally release lateral cash and therefore, it will increase the working capital funding or financing lines. On that will entail an improvement of margins, profits and recurring operating cash flow generation, and we will achieve all of that pointing the divestment plan of the group. In this regard, the company will assess proactively the divestment of assets or nonstrategic companies are not linked to our main activity of construction and concessions. We need to build the future of our Chilean -- we need to do that with the support of all of our stakeholders, our aim is to achieve sustained growth, creating value for our shareholders, investors, and the rest of our stakeholders. To achieve these important targets, we will work with our greatest effort and commitment. We're going through turbulent times of transformation and great uncertainty, but also great opportunities for the infrastructure sector in the geographies where we're present. That will be essential when it comes to finding a new movie growth model, the need to invest to renew infrastructure to technological advancements and fighting climate change is already a priority. A clear example of that is saying that the U.S.A. and Latin America are not far behind. After arrival of our country in the European Union, in the middle of the 1980s, there was a great investing effort in all the transport infrastructures with a target to converge and connect our networks with those of the rest of Europe. With a strong drop of investments and maintenance that happened in 2010 due to financial crisis has led to an aging of all the infrastructures in Spain and many other countries. It is now the time to approach that deficit and modernize those infrastructures, promoting more efficient and sustainable transport methods with a necessary addition of public and private partnership formulas by the hand of retail section and technologies as the next generation funds promote. We're walking towards modes of transport that are less polluting in the framework of the 2030 EM agenda and towards a neutral mobility, safe and connected that will set the new configuration of future cities. It is in our hands to bottle up the growth and the improvement of the quality of life of citizens. The investment team infrastructure has an impact on the cost structure of the company; the productivity of production factors, connectivity, and territorial accessibility, and also in the general welfare of the population. At OHLA, we really put infrastructure on the service of citizens, and we do that thanks to technical excellence of our human team and the support of our stakeholders. With your support, we'll contribute to progress together with innovation and utilization as external differential values that create advancement competitiveness and sustainability. Always taking into account the role of the business sector committed with creating economic and solid value. A committed company must believe in a business model able to generate value for all their stakeholders, in strengthening business success in the long term and contributing likewise and at the same time to improve society. Thank you very much for your attention. Ladies and gentlemen. Next, we're going to begin the Q&A session. I'll give the floor to Mr. Pedro Arellano, Investor Relations Director. Thank you.

Thank you, everyone, and thank you for your time. Please remember that this presentation will be available on the website after we finish the presentation. And except for some human error, I hope I will not forget any question. We have quite a few that we're getting through webcast. And all these -- I mentioned those questions now. If any question has not been mentioned to us later, investments account that for any reason, is not being answered now, please remember that we'll answer them all one by one from the Investor Relations department. Next is [ Antonio Tomas Somalia ]. We'll hear the first questions we got this morning. The first question is what's the current situation of the lawsuit with Qatar and the claim of EUR 50 million of the Madrid region in the train for most of it to Navalcarnero. Is it a delay in the recovery? Has there been an advancement? Which information can we give to markets in that regard?

Well, regarding those 2 important lawsuits for the company, there hasn't been any significant change in the year 2022. However, we're getting closer to the time when both lawsuits should resolve, and we hope that will happen in the year 2023, probably towards the end of the year.

So after having answered that question. The next one is regarding Pacadar. How much does it contribute to the company? And what do we expect from the company in the future? Could it be a possible sale in that divestment plan that has been announced?

Well, Pacadar has contributed this year in 2022, with EUR 9.1 million in EBITDA. It has given a 10% margin and that's a company that gives good vibes. It's in a recovery process and if we got a track to offer for sale, we could assess that. But right now, we are trying to make the company grow profitably.

So the next question refers to the consumption of cash flow this year. Even though it's better than in 4 years, it is negative in EUR 49 million. So the question refers to whether we expect that this consumption will repeat again from '23, where do we see the cash flow consumption for next year? Could we give some guidance there? And could we give a few more details about it?

Well, regarding the cash flow consumption, the CEO has already explained it. The cash flow for these type of companies is deeply marked and effective of whether the money is recovered before or after. Cash flow does not respond to problems that we may have had in the past. Legacy problems or nothing like that. This time, we have a 3 specific recoveries that you have taken place in December. The recovery of those projects has been somewhat delayed, and we have recovered that and we will recover it fully in the first quarter of the year. For 2023, the target of the company is to break even in cash flow generation before divestments and investments.

And I could add that if we look on the trend since 2019, the last few years, it's a positive trend. Therefore, the expectation for 2023 is favorable.

The next question comes from Minority Investments, asking about the [indiscernible] group debt. How much is it? When does it mature? And whether we expect to get an early payment of that somehow.

Well, a relevant fact was issued by the company back in the day, that company had 3 tranches. One of them has already been collective in the year. And the other 2, if I'm not mistaken, one of them has a low maturity, which is EUR 125 million, EUR 126 million related to the value evolution of [indiscernible] shares, and the other one does not depend on us. They need to get a recovery. And as they get it, we have the recovery guide on that recovery they get.

So there are some questions that are related, whether Spain is a strategic market for us? or whether we see Europe as a strategic market because they say there are many opportunities in Europe, and we're not having the same number of contracts that we had up to 2018. So could Spain be a primary strategic market for us?

Well, of course, it is strategic. These companies have called Madrid, Spain and it is clearly a strategic market. In fact, production has been increased. And for this year, we expect productions above EUR 450 million and contracts have us improved, but we are very selective in contract because we're always looking for markets with the highest margins.

Well, there are other questions regarding the debt and the figures we have given about the figure of 2.5x ratio of financial debt/EBITDA. How to reach it has been mentioned briefly in the presentation. Could we give some deadlines and amounts for each of the examples that have been mentioned? And there is another question related. Do we expect to do any sort of tender offer of bond repurchase offer throughout 2023, taking into account the terms of the first question?

Well, part of the question has already been answered. We're going to reduce the leverage and achieve the target of being under 2.5x debt-to-EBITDA by divestments. These are investments will take time and obviously, we will try to maximize the value to reduce the debt volume as much as we can. We think that that will take time. Foreseeably, we will see some divestments in the last part of this year or the beginning of next year. That's a realistic approach regarding divestments and leverage reduction.

Regarding leverage and bonds, there are specific questions that mentioned that in September, the step-up of the bond will go up in the big part. So you should remember that we have a cash parting a big part that is capitalizable at the end of maturity of the bonds. It is not cash flow. So do we expect to do any traction for a possible refinance or go to market or have holding some sort of conversation or alternatives?

Well, for the company right now, it is not a priority to refinance the bonds. Our bonds mature at 50% in March 2025 and the other 20% in March 2026. However, we are attentive to the markets to see the evolution of the situation and try to extend the maturities, but that links to what we've already mentioned. It will be easier to refinance, aiming to extend the term and shipping the costs. After that volume has been reduced that the strategy will follow, and we have plenty of time ahead to that term extension and refinancing.

There's another question mentioning Mr. Gallar. Also, it might be for the Financial Director, or even for Tomas. About whether the company has thought of investing money in self-treasury stock and whether this could be well perceived by the market?

No, we have not thought about it. Our money gets reinvested in our business, and that's it.

Well, the message has been given here since 2018, as our CEO was mentioning, is that our priority is to grow the company to deleverage and to normalize to keep growing comparison to last few years. But regarding substantial restock, we only have a liquidity contract managed apply from the company. And from the Investor Relations department, we get questions about people who think that we manage that self-treasury stock, but that is managed by Banco Santander investments. And I think the questions I answered. Regarding the presentation targets, and as I mentioned before, an investor is asking the following. The targets, taking into account the sales, the contracts of last year and the EBITDA do not seem too hopeful. That person says they're not very aggressive. Why is that? Or why do we not think that the targets could be higher? And secondly, do we think that the net profit could be positive from 2023 onwards with this?

Well, the company tries to be cautious in its estimates, we are still at the moment of uncertainty. We need to remember that inflation is not going down yet, not just in Spain but also in all the geographies where we are present. And despite the fact that we have had an important growth of contracts that were satisfied with a proud of. Those contracts do not always represent a lot of production in the year after. It just means a lot of years of production. For example, the Purple Line, the Maryland railway I mean that doesn't mean that we don't take a differential leap in production, but rather, that we're going to be having a guaranteed production for 5 years. And regarding the EBITDA, as I was saying, the world lease is still undergoing that high inflation, and we need to be cautious because all transaction companies are trying to defend those inflationary cost rises. And the administrations are beginning to acknowledge them.

Well, and regarding the contracts, of course, contracts are an objective, a target, but not at any price. And internationally, we keep being demanding in one of the essential bonds, which is a contract margin defense.

And we have a question that is two-fold. Related to our constant conversations with rating agencies, whether we talk to them. So I can say, yes, from the Investor Relations department, we constantly speak to them. We have constant communication with Moody's. And then when do we expect Moody's to review our rating and which result can we expect? Well, I think that has more with Moody's analysis. For about a year since the last review, they had, they made, they have a positive perspective. Would you like to add anything here?

Well, I think that briefly, they should do a review since they review annually the writings of the companies and then you take into account these results presentation with the guidance. Thereafter, they will make a decision. But we think that the evolution in the last few years should be positively assessed to reduce that and generate Capita. All of that together with our willingness to keep reducing debt and that should be taken into consideration by rating agencies.

We have other questions from bondholders asking something like what we mentioned earlier, whether we will refinance bonds now, whether we have an explanation in the future, I think that's been answered. And we also have some other questions related to what we've seen so far. And there is a question that I might answer myself, if you low me regarding the current repayment of bonds. That tender offer for that partial repurchase finished just now in February, for total of EUR 33.5 million, including PIK interest and nominal. The question refers to equity taking into account to decide which amount to repay your counsel. And why it was on that way? I just say that, that was done with the calculation agent, which is a financial intermediary that calculates all the received offers, and then they cautiously assess that with the legal parameters and the terms and conditions of the bonds and the offer announced back in the day. So, the company made a pragmatic decision so that no investor – so that the rounding matches the offer of EUR 33.5 million. No investor could be out; they received a low nominal value than the minimum that was also liquid. So the company is how we felt for that minimum that is announced in the relevant fact to market. And there's an investor asking why we're not repurchasing from him, that's why I give this simple explanation. If we have any questions, please remember that we can give you the details from the investor relations department regarding the specific situation. Well, there are other questions regarding whether we are happy with the share price currently and they're asking about future perspectives and someone is asking whether there is any obligation for the management team or the Board of Directors to hold shares.

So whether we are happy with the share value, of course, we are not. But the market is as it is. And regarding what the management team or the Board of Directors have a stake as of today, no, but maybe in the future, we could have share plans, which is something quite common.

So there's an investor who's asking, well, in the past, at long-term plan was presented, not yearly, but in the very long term specific until 2023 or 2024 to achieve internal targets that have been said. So the investor was asking. As of now, are you planning to publish acetic plan for the next 4 to 5 years to shed light and details on the divestments and investments and how do we see the company in the year 2030.

Right now, we're not thinking on that. Right now, the priority has been expressed by the CEO with expectation to achieve targets in the last part of the year or the beginning of next year. So it is a short and midterm target, as mentioned by the CEO, which is an additional boost to deleveraging. And then we'll review the projects and the plans in the long term.

Well, we could remind that in that strategic plan, we spoke about 3.5x EBITDA as acceptable figures, but the financial well has changed. The company is very responsible, and we are acting accordingly.

Okay. So unless I'm missing any update, I think that we are here by covering all the questions we got. But from the Investment Relations Department, if there is any pending question, we will contact to the people who have left their e-mail. If they have not left their email, please write to ask again. And I'd just like to thank everyone connected for the time. They can check the recording afterwards. And I'd like to thank our colleagues for their kindness and transparency and also to all of you, the long holders, investors. Please remember, we're here to respond to anything you need. Ladies and gentlemen. We hereby finish the presentation. Thanks so much for your attention, and see you soon. Thank you, everyone. [Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]