Observe Medical ASA (OBSRV) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, and welcome to this investor presentation from Observe Medical and the trading update. We have come a long way since we last had a presentation in August last year. And we would like to give you all a -- some transparency on how far we have come and also looking into the immediate future in terms of our ambitions and plans. We are going to do this as a presentation. Our CFO, Johan, and I are here, and we'll do this presentation. And if there are any questions, please state them in the -- on the platform, and we will pick them up at the end of this presentation. So we might not meet -- be able to answer all questions, but we will try and manage as much as possible. And the rest will be answered in writing after this presentation. Thank you for joining, and let's go into the presentation here. This one is relevant, but probably known to most. So the important also is that this presentation will be shared afterwards. So you will be able to find the details if you need to refresh or share or whatever. In terms of strategic vision, some of you or maybe a lot has already been part of the Observe Medical universe for some time and knows who we are and also a little bit about our ambitions, but we would like to give you an update on how we see this. We are playing on 2 major strings. We are looking at the one string -- one strategic string being our sales of proprietary products, meaning products that are within our own complete control, under our own trademarks and under our own regulatory umbrella. This is where we have come the furthest at the moment, and we are going to show you a little bit about how far we've come. We have also another leg of our strategy, which is to become a preferred partner of innovative companies within the Nordic ecosystems of companies that has ambitions of bringing in new and innovative products into the global platform for medtech devices. And we are working with several companies on that journey. We have not launched any product yet, but that is also an ambition to build that part of our strategy. What you will see shortly is that there are certain decisions and there are certain things we have done that has facilitated this ambition to be -- that we are able to implement this ambition. And it has had a lot of impact on our decisions in the last 2 years. M&A opportunities, yes, well, we definitely see that there is -- there are opportunities to join parties with some of these companies that we will meet and we are meeting already. We do not want to dilute the share, but we do see that by combining forces, also from an ownership perspective, will strengthen both companies -- both us and the companies we work with. Commercial strategy, progress and plans. This is the recent past of our company. We were created in 2019 as a spin-off from the Norwegian pharmaceutical company in Navamedic. And in the backpack, we got Sippi, which is a innovative and one-of-a-kind digital urine output measurement system. And in the first years, the focus was on that product, launching that product into a global market. We took a lot of steps to go in that direction. Conditions were a bit difficult in the context of COVID. Getting access to intensive care units proved to be rather difficult during a COVID situation or actually rather impossible, you could say, because no one was allowed in. And we also have to say that we struggled in the context of bringing one product into one country at a time. The journey was long and hard. And therefore, when the opportunity came later on to bring in the Convatec portfolio to become the platform that we could build our business on, that was our preferred strategy. Before we came to the Convatec journey, we did also make another acquisition on the Biim ultrasound device back in 2022. We have been working on that for some time. And we still believe we have a good product. It's still completely fully commercialable in the context of it is regulatory approved, and we are still having conversations with Fresenius Medical Care in terms of them scaling this product. But we also have to say progress has been slow and difficult, and therefore, this is not our main priority at the moment. Coming back to the Convatec acquisition that we made in 2023. Convatec was, at that point, the global leader within urine output measurement under the trademark of UnoMeter. They had a number of products in their portfolio. They were doing, more or less, the same thing as Sippi but in a mechanical way, whereas Sippi offers a digital version of the same functionality. And the decision was made, let's enter this space because getting access to the trademark, to the product portfolio would actually not only establish a basis for revenue and profit but also a platform that Sippi could be launched on. And since then, we have launched a number of products, firstly, the 2 products -- the portfolio consisted of 3 products. We have launched all of them now. Firstly, the 2 product, UnoMeter 500 and Abdo-Pressure, they were launched in late 2023. And just recently, in November '24, we launched the most important product in that portfolio, being the UnoMeter Safeti Plus. And right now, we are driving that product into -- on a global scale into the distribution base that we have established. And we do actually see a lot of progress, a lot of positive market feedback that I'll give you more detailed input to in the next slide. So this is where we are. And coming back to our 2-string strategy. The bottom half here where you see what we define as our scalable platform. We do now have a manufacturing platform established in China with a third party, and they are completely integrated in our quality system. And this is our choice of creating a platform that can bring us into a strong profitability position and certainly also someone who can deal with many technologies. That is the platform we have created. We have now a competence within product development. We have launched the product that you see there on the top. But -- and we do feel that we are capable of bringing in more products, and we have a pipeline that I will show you in a minute that, we believe, is a strong pipeline that will bring us to the level we need in terms of revenue and profit. Sales and distribution, yes, we have worked with that quite intensively since 2 years now, 2.5 years. And we now have sales and distribution in more than 35 countries. And we are building our business on a distribution setup, and the status of that is that we are now represented, as I mentioned, 35 countries, and this platform was built on the basis of the Convatec portfolio, very important for us. But that distribution base will definitely also be capable of bringing products from our second leg of our strategy, the innovative ecosystem string, into a commercial position. Last but absolutely not least, we have now our UnoMeter products under our own regulatory umbrella. All products are listed as with Observe Medical as the legal manufacturer, meaning that we are fully in control of these products. They -- we have our own quality system that is managing these products. And therefore, we also have that capacity to bring other products under the same quality system. Very important things for us. We could have chosen sometimes a simpler route, but then we would not have been potentially and expectedly the preferred partner for the second string of our leg -- of our strategy. In terms of portfolio, we now have a rather complete portfolio and, without any comparison, I would say, the strongest portfolio within urine output measurement on a global scale. Many -- we have several competitors, obviously, in some of these segments, but none of them having a portfolio like us and none of them having it as a strategic focus. So we are very happy about that position. We are the strongest by far. And the next step for us is definitely to exploit that position. We also have the Biim product, which is still completely regulatory approved. And if we get orders going forward, we could basically execute them, but right now, this is a rather dormant product as we are still in conversations with Fresenius. But our main focus, as we have earlier communicated, is urine output measurement as we're speaking now. So if you look at the market potential that we are reaching out for, we are looking at this one here. You would see on the top here is that the market for what we call mechanical urine output system, which is the Convatec portfolio, we are looking at a market size of around NOK 1.5 billion on a global scale. They are -- they consist of 2 segments, one segment being the product you see on the left there on the top, which is the way we design our product, a top-mounted system, it's often referred to as. We have a market size of around NOK 680 million. The lower part is a product that is the preferred model for the U.S. market and certain Asian markets, definitely also something we are looking into, but focus right now is on the top one. But totally, we are talking about around NOK 1.5 billion. If you zoom into the top-mounted system, the ones that we have, you see that the -- you see that, that market is around NOK 680 million. Our part of that, so to speak, if you take the revenue that Convatec had in 2021 and then adjust that for currency and market pricing, that market was NOK 360 million. So short term, that is our ambition: to retake that position that Convatec had of NOK 360 million. The other NOK 319 million, as listed here, is the competitors, and that's definitely also within our scope, obviously, but the first step is -- and has a great potential for us is to retake the position that Convatec had. Next step for us is definitely still Sippi. Sippi has been on the table for some years, as most of you will know. It was put a little bit on the back burner when the Convatec portfolio became available to us. We are still having it part of our pipeline, and we do intend to launch that product within the next year. The reason why this is important for us is that this product has just a totally different portfolio -- sorry, opportunity than the mechanical ones are. Let's put it like this: the mechanicals can grow into -- the usage of mechanical, which has a value of NOK 1.5 billion, if you transfer that into Sippi, fully transferred, will have a market potential of NOK 4 billion. So -- and that is driven by 2 things, mostly pricing because that product offers just much more value but also because the product consists of a disposable part and a console and electronic part. And together, they form a portfolio of NOK 4 million (sic) [ NOK 4 billion ]. Sippi being extremely strategic for us, and we still have that in clear sight in terms of getting that on the market. So this is our journey in taking the position as the global leader within urine output measurement. This is how far we have come on the portfolio side. The 3 products that we have now launched that you will see, they are the complete Convatec portfolio. So when I was referring to the NOK 360 million market that they had in 2021, they represent that opportunity. And the latest development here is that we launched the Safeti Plus product. It was launched in November, but first deliveries happened in January. And we are now seeing an order intake that is growing by the day or by the week. So we are happy with the progress. It is still early times. We've only been active for 2 months, but we still have seen a very nice and very satisfying order intake and also deliveries of these products. Our pipeline is also very clear. First priority is to launch an upgrade of the UnoMeter Safeti product, which we call UnoMeter Safeti Max. What that does is actually takes patented technology that was developed in the -- when Sippi was developed. It is a solution that can expectedly reduce the risk of infections in a patient. And that is the key element when you talk about urine output measurement, when you need to protect an intensive care patient from the risk of infection. So that product speaks directly into that opportunity. What you could say here is that if you look at the left side here, the UnoMeter 500 product that we launched in late '23, that has, let's say, 10 competitors. If you look at the UnoMeter Safeti Plus, we have one competitor. And we would even say that we don't have a competitor because we have a number of elements, both clinical documentation but also specific features that no one else has. And therefore, we are very confident of this journey. But of course, when we move into the next steps, we are outside of any competition. There are no one out there right now with an electronic urometer that has the same strategic focus as us. No one can offer the same benefits as the Safeti Max. So that is a very nice position that we are looking into. And we're talking about a launch of Safeti Max, definitely within a year, and the same ambitions with Sippi. We are still looking into how much money we can put into the accelerated market launch of Sippi, but that's something we are working on, on a daily basis. Far right, you would see what we call the -- also a Safeti Max version, but that is actually the -- let's call it, the U.S. design. It is the front-mounted one. If you remember the presentation on slide -- a couple of slides back, you would see that there was around NOK 700 million market for front-mounted systems, mechanical systems on U.S., Asian markets. And we, of course, want to reach out for that as well. And in order to do that, we need the front-mounted system. We have said this is not our first priority because it needs competitive edge. And what we see we can give is by adding the SippCoat technology, the infection-controlling technology, we can position ourselves well also for that particular market. So this is an overview of what are the markets that we are playing into, specifically related to the Convatec business that we have taken over now. What you see on the left side here is the market size. Well, it is the actual revenue corrected for currency and market pricing that Convatec had in 2021. So they had a revenue and net sales of NOK 160 million of UnoMeter 500 and Abdo-Pressure. What we are now launching with Safeti Plus is what you see on the right-hand side, the NOK 200 million extra market. And if you had the same picture in terms of margin and profitability, that would be even more dominant, the value of the UnoMeter Safeti Plus. So now we have -- as I've said a few times, we have full portfolio to address this NOK 360 million that -- and we take that position that Convatec had only a couple of years ago. So comments on this one here. This is basically what you need when you launch a medtech device. We have -- based on, of course, the knowledge and the experience and the work that Convatec has done in the last 30 years in building the position they had, we are now continuing that journey, basically with the same messages because also a number of clinical documentation has been created to support that -- those positions that we are building on. So as I mentioned before, when you look at Safeti Plus, that has -- that product has clinical documentation, and no one else in the market has any clinical documentation. We have clinical documentation that shows how well UnoMeter Safeti performs, both in terms of infection control but also in terms of managing low volume so it can be used for pediatric. There are a number of elements that sets us aside compared to the competitors. And we definitely have high ambitions and to position us back basically to where Convatec was. No one has taken that position. It has also been confirmed now. When you look at how far we've come, the situation is that we in -- on the 4th of January, received the first shipments of UnoMeter Safeti Plus into Europe, to our warehouse in Gothenburg. And since then, we have started supplying these products. A number of customers that you will see here, a number of countries with distributors have orders for the Safeti Plus, and you will see them here on the left-hand side. We are quite happy with the reach that we have already made. Actually, we showed the product first in November, but only here in January, we made the first deliveries. We now have an order intake of more than NOK 10 million, and that is growing continuously. In the last -- since we have made the last announcement on -- the last press release on the Norwegian Stock Exchange, we have had the first-ever order from France. We've never sold to a French distributor because UnoMeter 500 was historically not a strong product in that market. Safeti Plus was. And now we are back in France. We took the first order very, very recently. We took -- have taken the first order in Chile. And Chile being a South American company may be not seen as the biggest potential, but actually, Chile is -- was and will become again a very significant country for us. So we are happy about the representation we have now in Chile. And we also now have the first Safeti Plus order from the Benelux countries and meaning that we, right now, are looking at a situation where we have orders on Safeti Plus from 24 countries. Out of those 24, 10 has already -- have already placed repeat orders. And why repeat orders is so important is that the common sales process we are looking at here is that our distributors will place orders, normally not major orders in the first steps. Some of our distributors have done that because they know us from the quality of safety of the Uno 500 and the Abdo-Pressure, but most of them will place relatively small orders to start with to go out and test the quality of our product and to start the conversion of customers because what has happened in the market in the last 2.5 years is many players have been trying to take the position that Convatec had. No one has succeeded, and that is mainly due to functionality. The products have not really performed. I'm talking about the competitor products now. So the market for us seems to be still very open, and we are getting that confirmed every day because products are being tested with very good results. We have not yet seen a situation where a distributor has not progressed and are not happy with the results that they are seeing when products are being tested in the market. But very importantly for us is that when you sell a first order, you get the market confirmation, and that drives the next order that is then of a reasonable size. And that obviously depends on the size of the country and the distributor. But that again gives access to bidding on tenders, and it will also give access to converting more and more customers. So this is a snowball effect that we are looking into, and having an order intake of NOK 10 million after only 2 months -- 2.5 months after we actually were able to show the first final products of the Safeti Plus, we are happy with, very happy with. So what we're looking at right now is that the countries that we are now having received orders from represents 83% of the historic opportunity that Convatec had, or specifically saying that of the NOK 360 million that Convatec was selling, we are now selling in the geography that covers 83% of that. And we have a number of areas or countries that are still in our scope. Australia and New Zealand and Argentina are the countries that we, right now, are focusing on. When we take them on, we are getting very close to 10% of the historic market that we have not yet reached out to. So these are the countries that we have in focus, and you will see very easily on the donut here on the right-hand side that only having -- only missing now 17% after 2.5 months is quite satisfying. And it's also relatively easy to see which countries are the main focus of the work we do. U.K., Spain and Germany and Italy represents the very large majority. Nordics, very important also because it's our home base but also because they are better positioned for -- in terms of profit on our side. So this is our road map for further growth. I mentioned already a little bit about what are the challenges that our products are solving at a hospital and patient level. And these are the challenges that are listed here. They -- if you look at infection for one of them, you're looking at a situation where catheter-associated urinary tract infection is the most common hospital-acquired infection in hospitals. And what our product is speaking into is specifically that because when a patient is catheterized and using a urometer, they are in a high risk of getting this such an infection. And if you're an ICU, intensive care patient, you are vulnerable to additional complications. And as you will see on the right-hand side, what are the complications if you get a catheter-associated urinary tract? There are some lighter ones, but actually, there is increased morbidity and mortality when you're talking about infections of this sort. So this is definitely something that is speaking into the users and focus areas, and that is why we have developed the Safeti Max, but actually also, Sippi that is coming has potential and has specific features that speaks into the infection controlling element. In terms of nursing safety and time optimization, using a urometer is one of the last, if not the last, manual process on an intensive care ward. On an hourly basis, the nurse will go and read the urine output of every patient in the intensive care unit. And if your product is able to speak into that and make that process more effective, you would definitely be able to position yourself better, claim market share, but definitely also claim higher prices because that is, of course, our ambition. And if you combine these 2 elements and look into our portfolio, you would see exactly what Safeti Max and Sippi is speaking into. Safeti Max is, as I said, an upgrade of the UnoMeter Safeti Plus that we have just launched. We are taking the technology that has been developed, which is patented. It's a coating technology that you will see some indications of here on the right-hand side that has -- where a PhD has been written on the infection-controlling elements on that technology. And right now, we are in a situation where this product is actually something we could start manufacturing tomorrow. We have all the manufacturing equipment established. Now we will use the next months to build our claims. We will build the -- our ability to communicate increased value to the end users through the infection-controlling journey. And we are now already in process of showing and doing a process that will prove this infection-controlling element. So -- we also need to do the regulatory side. It's not been done yet. We've just launched Safeti Plus, which was a tremendous journey for us in terms of resources, and we are quite proud that we've done it in such a short time. And now our focus is turning towards the Safeti Max. So we expect the launch of this product in the late part of this year. Mainly, it is going to be a regulatory and clinical claims that will drive the timing of this. As I said, we can launch the product from a physical perspective already tomorrow. And we already have products sterilized and everything, so we are starting that clinical test journey very, very shortly. In terms of Sippi, that was actually the product that originally established the foundation for this company. The idea of Sippi is that, as I mentioned before, urine output measurement is one of the last, if not the last, manual processes done in an ICU. Resources are scarce. Resources are very expensive in an intensive care unit. There is an increasing demand, generally speaking, within the clinical world that you are documenting your numbers and your -- the patient journey. So more and more hospitals has electronic patients journal that they are -- and their demand in terms of documentation on the patient journey is just increasing. And as I mentioned, infection is this -- the inflection that you can get if you don't use the right urometer is the most common and potentially fatally for an ICU patient. And if you look at Sippi, that product speaks into all 3 of these elements: data accuracy, risk of infection and definitely time consuming or time -- reducing time spent on reading the urine output on an hourly basis. Very important for us to get Sippi back on the road. There's -- I would say, on a weekly or at least biweekly level, we get mails and phone calls from hospitals around the world who are very interested in getting access to Sippi because they find it on the net. We haven't seen any competitor yet positioning themselves into particularly this segment. There are a number of companies out there that wants to make a urine output measurement device, but that is for more niche-kind strategies. Our journey, our ambition is to position this product as a product that will convert the mechanical urometers to a digital urometer. And that's a different story altogether compared to our -- the competitors we have seen so far. In terms of Biim, already informed during the rights issue out of 2023. This product is a second priority compared to the urine output measurement portfolio. We are still in a process with Fresenius Medical Care that we've also been for some time to -- where they are having a program that will show -- hopefully will show, seen from our perspective, that the benefits of Biim will actually be able to carry a business case that will enable Fresenius Medical Care to sell the use of Biim. Biim is, on a daily basis, today and tomorrow and whatever, is being used on around 270, 280 clinics from -- on Fresenius clinics in the U.S. They are very happy with the use of it. They are not -- have not scaled it yet into the remaining 2,500 clinics they have because they have not seen the data. And right now, they have just completed a pilot study here in December that showed -- that indicated there are a number of positive drivers of such a decision, nevertheless, not strong enough for them to make a short-term decision on implementing it. They are continuing that journey into the next 6 months where they will be continuing to -- continue to lock data to see if they -- if that development continues to increase and thereby creating the foundation for scaling. We've been on that journey for quite some time, and we have only -- had have only very limited investments within -- in this portfolio. So as you will also have seen in the interim report that we published on the 18th of March, we have taken down the value of Biim quite significantly due to that situation we are looking into. It is still fully regulatorily approved. We can establish or reestablish the manufacturing if we want to within a reasonable time frame. But right now, this is not the scope of our short-term business strategy. That can change, of course, if Fresenius gets into a position that they will accelerate. That's not what we see right now. All right. I will leave the floor to Johan, our CFO. So there you are.

Thanks a lot, Jørgen. [Foreign Language]

Thank you. Thank you, Johan. Yes, rounding this off, we will -- I'll try to do a summary of how we see -- how far we've come on our journey and what we've been able to create in the last 2 years and also give you a little bit a summary in terms of our -- summary of -- on our ambition side. So repeating, we are now in a situation where we have a fully scalable platform. That means we have a fully integrated third-party manufacturing platform placed on a platform that is extremely effective, supporting our ambition to become cash positive, strong -- have a strong bottom line. That is -- has been established now. It has not been an easy journey, and we've spent time that we could have cut some corners if we had not had the strategy we have of also bringing in third-party products in our portfolio and through our distribution. So we've taken the time to do this right, basically to have the right platform to move us forward. We are also having a situation where we have capabilities and also a history of our ability to launch a lot -- to do product development. We have taken several products now to market, and we do feel that this is a capacity that we have going forward. Absolutely, a strong point for us now is our distribution platform. We are selling our products. You may remember 24 countries I mentioned on Safeti Plus. Remember, that is specifically on Safeti Plus. If you then add where we are already selling UnoMeter 500 and Abdo-Pressure, we are above 35 countries where we are selling the UnoMeter-branded products. This is in a platform that very few companies have after only 2 years of commercial operation. And of course, when you look at these -- our future platform, but definitely also the second string of our strategy, this is something very few companies have. They normally are looking at a situation where they have to bring their products into a distribution platform, country by country, a stand-alone product. That's a very difficult, very expensive, very slow progress. We can offer a much faster and much more direct approach on that. Quality and regulatory is also a capability that is absolutely key within our industry. If you do not many -- master this particular competency, you are not really in the game. And as we have done also there, taking some -- or say, not taking some shortcuts. Most of our competitors are not the legal manufacturer of these products. They use their manufacturing platform, which are always in China, their regulatory platform. We have chosen not to take that journey. We want to be able to manage regulatory and quality. Otherwise, we will not be able to deliver on our strategy. We have launched the products, and we have launched them within a short -- within a narrow frame within the time line we have communicated, and we have now reestablished the full Convatec portfolio that in 2021 had a revenue of NOK 360 million in today's currency and price. We are now chewing into that market opportunity and have come some way after 2.5 months. We are happy with the progress. We want to accelerate that in the next year and years, as you saw from the numbers Johan showed you a minute ago. We are in this ongoing market penetration. As I said, we are now represented in 83% of the countries that generated the NOK 360 million. We have delivered products to many, many of these because first products arrived on the 4th of January. We've taken in orders of more than NOK 10 million. We have seen even smaller countries delivering significant orders that reflects the market potential. This is an accelerating journey we're looking into. And not least, we do see that we have a very specific and patented or a pipeline where we are speaking into the most significant challenges within the -- within this market segment, the infection-controlling element but also time-effectiveness elements with this pipeline we have. Short term, as we put it here, we are launching a product that will take us into a position with no competition. Price is always a competition, and that is what we need to build our claims on, on the fact that we have to be able to communicate the value to our end users that this product offers superior value compared to our competitors. Otherwise, we will not, of course, be able to communicate and take the price we want on the Safeti Max, but we do believe that we have the foundation to do that. And with that, I conclude hereby the presentation, and we can take a number of questions. Let's do that.

[Foreign Language]

Yes. I think that's the million-dollar question these days, isn't it? Well, difficult to answer. I think everyone will appreciate in terms of what exactly is going to happen in the future. But I think that I would use history as a guide here. The fact is that even under the sanctions of the Ukraine-Russia war, the medtech devices were not included in those sanctions. Medtech devices like this one here where you are treating terminally or critically ill patients are normally not included. And that's also what we saw when Trump implemented his newest sanctions -- or sorry, tariffs. They were not -- they did not include medtech devices. So in that -- under that context and as most costs within our medtech world are paid by the systems of the countries, meaning the governments' budgets, they are normally not a part of the scope of those tariffs. But obviously, with -- this is not a guarantee or anything. But I think that if you want to be anywhere in the world that we're looking at right now would be in the medtech world.

We have a question about if Convatec is still in business. Or have competitors taken market share?

Yes. The short version about the Convatec world is that they -- Convatec, in 2022, transferred the manufacturing of this portfolio and a lot of other products in what is call -- within their intensive care range to a manufacturing platform in Belarus. And as we all know, shortly after in the early parts of '23, the Ukraine-Russia war broke out. And that led to Convatec being forced into closing down the manufacturing plant. No raw materials, no ability to operate that manufacturing plant. That meant that they stopped completely manufacturing within only a few months. Therefore, Convatec is not part of this game anymore. They transferred that to us, and they are not in the game. They are not competing, and they can't compete either because that's the agreement we have. We have, of course -- when a 50-plus percent market share holder, like Convatec was, steps out, an element of chaos erupts, and in this case, it was, more or less, complete chaos because that was more than -- it was like 55% of the volume that were sold into this particular segment. That has meant a number of competitors have stepped in, and there are basically 2 segments here. There are the larger industrial players out there that are already -- that already had products similar or at least measuring urine output. They have scaled up their manufacturing, and a number of smaller players have come in because the opportunity was there. What we have seen and have now confirmed also is that none of these have, first of all, this as a strategic focus. And secondly, the products they have brought into this segment have not performed. It has not performed at all at the same level as the Convatec product, the UnoMeter Safeti Plus particularly, because that offers both significant better practical usage and also infection protection. And even though 2.5 years has passed, no one has taken that position on the high-quality segment. And that is where we are going in and that we are seeing continuously that the comments are coming back. The products that are out there is not performing as the markets are expecting based on the previous performance of UnoMeter Safeti Plus.

We have a question about Biim. Why are we only focusing on Fresenius Medical Care? What's the backup plan if Fresenius won't continue their cooperation?

The reason why Fresenius has been in a particular focus is because the technology of Biim means that it has perfect application performance within this particular market segment. This is the dialysis segment, and the technology that Biim is offering fits perfectly into the use of this particular segment. That was the starting point of focusing on that segment. Why it has not been expanded into other areas, I think it's -- the reason is because Fresenius, we -- a contract was made. Progress was made. A lot of lights were green. Everything was going in the right direction. At a certain point, Fresenius came into a situation during COVID where they lost a small portion of their patients. They simply died, unfortunately. And that meant that the clinics in the U.S. went from profit creating to losing money. And that journey for Fresenius meant that their, let's say, scrutiny in terms of what they wanted to do and what they have money to do in terms of investment changed -- that perspective changed quite radically during that. Since then, they have changed the management -- top management, but also the management team that is managing this. So starting point, perfect match in terms of usage. Very good progress with Fresenius. Then suddenly, Fresenius took a turn, and we were sort of left a little bit on the wrong foot also from a financial position of scaling this into other areas.

Okay. Then we have a question about today's stock exchange notice. Could you elaborate more on the debt restructuring negotiations?

Yes. As the announcement said, we are now in a situation where we have agreements made with the 2 major parties that -- where we have debt, being Navamedic and Convatec. They have certain conditions on them in terms of how much money that can be raised going forward in order to secure a viable platform. So those agreements are now -- have been made in full agreement and has been completed. There are conditions attached to them. So that's where we are. We have other debt in our balance sheet. And we are, let's say -- next step for us, as also the announcement said, will be to address our situation on debt with the remaining parties where we have debt. But I think the first focus for us has been we need to manage the big ones. Then we can drive those results into the smaller debt holders for us. So that's where we are. Yes. Maybe a comment there on the Convatec agreement also. This is a detail, but an extremely important detail for us. The original plan or the original agreement with Convatec was that the full ownership and rights of the UnoMeter trademarks were transferred to us when the full payment was completed. We've been very much focused on the fact that we need to be in control of our own destiny, also on that point. So in the new agreement we have with Convatec, it is now clear that when the first installment of the debt is paid, which expectedly will happen in the near future, full rights of all the intellectual properties that is part of that deal is transferred to us. So important for us in terms of creating value within the company, but also being fully in control of our own destiny.

There is also a question about a potential new equity issue. Jørgen, I don't know, you can elaborate a bit on that.

Yes, we can. I think the announcement was also alluding to a little bit on that point. But I think that what we are saying here is that our situation is that we are now with our Board discussing intensively what the next steps are to establish a situation, a capital situation that will enable us to execute on our growth ambitions. Those conversations are ongoing and has not been concluded at the current time. So that, we'll have to wait a little while before we can be 100% clear on that.

Okay. I think that is what we can manage today. If there are any more questions, you are welcome to send them in, and we will answer them by e-mail or phone.

Yes. Don't hesitate to reach out, mail-wise or phone-wise, if there's additional questions or comments. We would definitely try to answer all of them. And finally, here, we would like to thank you for joining this session, and thank you for your support in the times before and also hopefully in the time ahead of us. I think, as I said, we've taken some very tough decisions. We've really worked hard in establishing where we are now. And our position here that you had in mind is that very difficult part of the journey has been now completed. We have products in the market. We have a platform that we can launch additional products on. We are quite optimistic in terms of the fact that we can now scale this business. So hopefully, we'll be seeing you also in the future with your support going forward. So thank you very much again for joining, and talk to you soon.