Oceania Healthcare Limited (OCA) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and fellow shareholders. Thank you for joining us today for the Annual Meeting of Oceania Healthcare Limited. I am pleased to advise that this meeting has been properly convened and the notice of meeting duly given. There being a quorum of shareholders present, I declare the annual meeting open. I am Elizabeth Coutts, Chair of Oceania Healthcare. To begin, I would like to take this opportunity to introduce to you those people alongside me today. On my immediate right is Brent Pattison, our Chief Executive Officer. I would like to welcome Brent to his first annual meeting as Chief Executive. Although Brent was only pointed to the role March 2021, he brings a great deal of experience to the role with over 10 years' experience in the aged care and retirement village sectors. We're delighted with Brent's appointment and it's great to see him continuing to execute Oceania's growth strategy. Alongside Brent is Alan Isaac, an Independent Director; Alan is Chair of our Audit Committee and a member of the Remuneration Committee. To my left is Dame Kerry Prendergast, an Independent Director; Dame Kerry is Chair of the Clinical and Health and Safety Committee. Next to Dame Kerry is Greg Tomlinson, an Independent Director. Greg is the Chair of the Development Committee. Joining us today by video link is Sally Evans. Welcome, Sally. Great to see you prop up there. Sally is as an Independent Director. Sally is Chair of the Remuneration Committee and a member of the Clinical Health and Safety Committee. Sally is in -- lives in Sydney and due to the pause in the travel bubble between New Zealand and New South Wales, she is unable to join us here in person today. Patrick McCawe, an Independent Director, is also -- resides in Sydney, and he is unable to travel here today for the same reason. So he sends his apologies. Patrick is a member of the Audit Committee. Also in attendance today, there are members of our executive team: Kathryn Waugh on the -- stand up Kathryn. And we'll introduce Kathryn as our Chief Financial Officer. Anna Thornburn as our Group General Counsel; Mark Stockton as our Group General Manager of Property and Development; and Jo Copeland as General Manager, People and Culture. Unfortunately, Dr. Frances Hughes, our Group General Manager, Nursing and Clinical Strategy is unable to be here today -- with us today as she is on route to Australia. Also in attendance with us today are representatives from PricewaterhouseCoopers, our auditors, including our lead audit partner, Leo Foliaki. Thank you, Leo, for joining us. And our legal advisers, our Chairmanship and thank you for coming here at Roger Wallace. Our voting, when we come to the formal business of the meeting, I shall put various motions to the meeting that will need to be seconded. Where appropriate, I should give an opportunity for discussion and then put the motion to the vote. In accordance with the NZX listing rules, voting will be by poll, and I will ask only shareholders and/or proxy holders to vote, please. PricewaterhouseCoopers, our auditors, will act as scrutineer. The results of the meeting will be published to the market later today. I will give further directions on voting later in the meeting. For now, you should all have a voting paper which was given to you when you registered. If you do not, can you please indicate now by raising your hand and a member of Computershare team will assist you. So is anyone without a voting paper that requires a voting paper? No? We look like we've been well catered for. Also at the appropriate time, should you wish to address a comment or question to the Chair, please raise your hand, and we will bring a microphone to you. By way of introduction, please introduce your name, whether you are a shareholder or a proxy holder, the name of the shareholder represented. The notice of meeting was mailed or e-mailed to all shareholders and contains the business to be dealt with this meeting. Apologies. Are there any apologies that anyone would like to have recorded, please? No, there's no apologies. A number of shareholders have appointed proxies to cast their vote. 418 shareholders holding 238,835,962 shares, which represents 33.88% of the shares on issue, are represented by valid proxies. The Board is holding 231,951,666 of these proxy votes. I will advise on the number of proxies held by the Board to be voted in favor after each resolution that will be put before the meeting today. The minutes of the previous annual meeting were reviewed at the first meeting of directors of the company following the annual meeting and were confirmed as a true and correct record of the meeting. The minutes are available for review on the company's website. The Group General Counsel also has copies available should any shareholder wish to review them at the conclusion of this meeting. The first item of business is to consider and receive the annual report and the financial statements for the 10-month period ended 31st of March 2021 and the audit report thereon. The annual report containing the financial statements and the annual report for the 10-month period ending 31st of March 2021 is available to shareholders on the company's website and was circulated either electronically or in hard copy form to all shareholders on the register at the time of mailing. We shall take the annual report as having been read. Before seeking your comments on the annual report, I will provide you with an update on your company's performance. This will be followed by an address from Brent Pattison, our Chief Executive. This is the first Annual Shareholders' Meeting since we changed our full year balance date to 31st of March from 31st of May. Much of the financial performance set out in the annual report and the financial statements contains a shorter full year period of 10 months and covers the trading period from 1st of June 2020 to 31st of March 2021 rather than a full 12-month period. We are pleased to observe that both of our underlying metrics being underlying earnings before interest, tax and depreciation and amortization, and net profit after tax are up 8% and 4%, respectively, on the prior corresponding 10-month period from 1st of June 2019 to 31st of March 2020. These strong financial results have been underpinned by record sales volumes, strong key performance and the successful delivery of our new developments, which we will outline later in the meeting. Brent will take you through the financial results for the 10-month period ended 31st of March 2021 shortly. One of the highlights of the period was the successful completion of an oversubscribed $100 million equity raise in March 2021. This equity raise was undertaken by way of an $80 million placement and a $20 million retail offer. It was greta to see existing and new shareholders' support of Oceania's growth, the proceeds of the equity raise were used to fund 2 new acquisitions. The first acquisition was the acquisition of Waterford and Hobsonville Point, Auckland. This village provides Oceania with an attractive development and a highly sought after location, and currently comprises 64 independent living villas and 36 independent living apartments as well as a vibrant resident community. The existing site also offers development land that is resource constrained to develop approximately 60 apartments. This is a highly attractive brownfield bolt-on acquisition to Oceania's existing portfolio. Since taking ownership in late April, Oceania has already secured new sales of apartments. Oceania has also completed the acquisition of a leasehold site in Franklin, also in Auckland, together with some adjacent beer land. Franklin is a key location in the broader Auckland region and part of the fast-growing South Western Corridor. We are in the process of finalizing development plans for the site with a mixture of independent living units, independent living apartments, care suites to be constructed on the site. These recent acquisitions signal a pivot in our strategy to the identification and execution of value-accretive M&A activity as well as growing our greenfield presence. In addition to acquiring these 2 new sites, Oceania is making good progress on its development projects. Some of our directors visited our Eden Waimarie and Lady Allum development sites in Auckland last month, and it was pleasing to see how each of these developments is taking shape. We will again provide more detail on each of our development projects later in the meeting. Oceania has continued to focus on improving refining resident experience. Everything we do is designed for our residents and the things that matter the most of them being their identity connection and purpose. There has been increased scrutiny of the retirement village sector recently. And the terms that operators offer to the residents, the retirement commissioner has recommended an urgent review of the retirement villages' legislative framework. The industry's response through the Retirement Villages Association is that the commissioner's call for an urgent review of the legislation is unnecessary and excessive. The RBA is suggesting the retirement commissioner's office's steer focus on its efforts on working with the industry to implement a series of improvements that are already underway. Oceania is an active member of the RBA with Brent being a member of the RBA Executive Committee, and we take our responsibilities as retirement village operator very seriously. As noted in the annual report, Oceania has made tangible progress with our sustainability initiatives over the last 3 to 6 months, as is continuing to work towards its goal of becoming carbon neutral in the future. One of the main contributors to Oceania's waste is the disposal of incontinence products. It's pleasing to see some initiatives being developed to address these issues. For example, in recent months, Oceania is participating in a trial of vermicomposting of incontinence products. We're looking forward to hearing how the trial is progressing to see whether this is a project that can be rolled out on a larger scale. Directors have visited many of our sites around the country since last year's Annual Shareholders' Meeting, both as a Board and individually. As I noted before, some of us visited the Auckland development sites last month, and we enjoyed holding our March Board meeting at the Bellevue in Christchurch. We appreciate meeting with our staff and residents at sites to observe the culture and day-to-day operations, and to receive feedback, which we can then incorporate in our continuous improvement processes. The landscape in which Oceania operates has changed significantly since our listing in 2017. As you will have seen from our corporate governance statement, over the last 2 years, your directors have attended a significant number of additional meetings during this period. This has resulted in increased demands on directors' time. Last year, there was considerable heavy lifting to do by directors with the bond issue, acquisitions, capital raising, the change in financial reporting date as well as governing and the challenging COVID-19 environment. Looking forward, directors' workload will increase with more legislative regulatory changes being proposed, stakeholders' expectation increasing to consider and monitor a broader range of nonfinancial measures together with governing through the ongoing uncertainties of the COVID-19 environment. Given this environment and Oceania being positioned for performance and growth, your Board considers it may be beneficial to consider appointing additional Board members. The directors' skills mix was provided in the 2019 annual report and is available on Oceania's website. The skill mix matrix has served Oceania well to date. Over the next year, the Board will consider additional skills that would be beneficial to Oceania as well as start planning for Board succession over the next 5 years. The Board will also undertake a review of directors' fees in the next year, noting that fees to each director have not changed since Oceania's listing in 2017. The maximum aggregate amount of remuneration payable by Oceania to directors for fees and Board committee responsibilities was fixed at $582,500, and the product disclosure statement dated 31st of March 2017, when there were 5 directors. With a subsequent appointment of 2 additional directors and the resignation of 1 director, the pool is now $672,500 per annum for 6 directors, inclusive additional remuneration for committee chairs. As part of the intended review, the Board will consider the introduction of additional payments should significant additional board work be required over and above usual duties. This is an approach taken by many NZX -- other NZX listed companies. At this time, Oceania is in the early stage of considering these matters, and we'll provide an update in due course. Dividends. We were pleased to declare and pay a final dividend of $0.021 per share, which takes full year dividends, nonimputed, to $0.034 per share and represents 55% of underlying net profit after tax. This reflects strong trading performance and operating cash flow throughout the period. The dividend reinvestment plan for our New Zealand and Australian shareholders was also applicable for this dividend. Looking ahead, we'll be releasing our financial results for the 6 months to 30th September 2021 and late November 2021. In closing, I would like to thank our team of dedicated staff across all of our 46 sites. They have worked extremely hard over the past 18 months in challenging conditions to keep our resident safe. each other safe and all the while providing outstanding care and service to our residents. I would like to thank the Board. Your directors have a broad and complementary range of skills backed by years of experience, wisdom and the import has been invaluable, particularly in these difficult times. Finally, I would like to thank you for your -- all of your support of Oceania and for attending the meeting this afternoon, we remain committed to transforming the aged care and retirement villages sector by putting our residents at the heart of what we do, and to define Oceania as a provider of better outcomes and growth. I'd now like to hand over to Brent, our Chief Executive, who will present our financial results and talk about the execution of Oceania's strategy. Brent?

Thanks, Liz. And as Liz has already said, a very warm welcome to everyone here today. It's a fantastic day looking at the sun out on Eden Park. You will see from the front page of our annual report that we have led with believe and better. And this is far more than a catch phrase. It signals our intent to build upon past achievements and to challenge ourselves to be even better in the delivery of a resident experience. the positive impact we make in our local communities, programmed growth for the business, shaping perceptions around aging, being allude to our carbon footprint, as well as making a conscious effort to make Oceania a great place to work. Touching on the financial overview, firstly, I will take you through the financial results for the 10-month period ended 31 March 2021. As Liz has already mentioned, unaudited underlying EBITDA of $56.2 million for the 10 months ended March 31, 2021, was 8% higher than prior corresponding period of the 10 months to March 31, 2020 unaudited. We've delivered an increase in our premium revenue strategy, a steep change in our sales volume and strong underlying EBITDA growth. This was largely as a result of both strong sales of new developments and resale volumes in the current period as well as the ongoing receipt of deferred management fees from developments completed in prior periods. Oceania's total assets as at March 31, 2021 are $1.9 billion compared with $1.5 billion as at May 31, 2020. This material increase is due in part to the reversal of CBRE Limited's COVID-19 related valuation assumptions. That had led to a decrease in the value of Oceania's existing investment property assets in the prior year. The completion of key development sites as well as reflecting strong sales volumes of new retirement village units and care suites that have been developed over the last 2 years. For the 10 months to March 31, 2021, operating cash flow was $96 million compared to the $99.4 million for the 12-month period to May 31, 2020. This reflects strong sales volumes over that 10-month period to March 31, 2021. As at March 31, 2021, Oceania had current drawn debt and bonds of [ $329.9 ] million and $79.9 million of cash, representing $225 million of undrawn net debt headroom. This low gearing, coupled with sufficient bank facilities in place, puts Oceania in a sound position for future growth and enables us to continue to execute on our development pipeline. The effects of COVID-19 have continued to have an impact on the business in the 10-month period to March 31, 2021. As we have noted previously, the business showed resilience throughout the COVID-19 related disruptions given its focus on care. In the 10-month period to March 31, 2021, Oceania operated under a Alert Level 2.5 or higher restrictions for 53 calendar days. This is in addition to the 50 days of Alert Level 3 or higher restrictions and the 12 months to 31 May 2020. Despite the shorter 10-month trading period and the number of days operating under lockdown restrictions, we've recorded 388 total ORA sales in the 10-month period to March 31, 2021, which is an increase of 9% or 33 units and key suites on a full 12-month period to May 31, 2020. When this is considered on a 10-month corresponding period basis, the business actually achieved 25% growth in volumes across both our units and care suites. Our 194 new sales included over 75% of sales outside of the Auckland region, including villa, apartment and care suite sales in Gracelands, which is in Hastings, Green Gables in Nelson, Elderslea in Upper Hutt, the BayView in Tauranga, and Awatere in Hamilton. Despite this regional bias, our development margin remained strong at 26%. Our 194 resales in the 10-month period were up 17% on the 12-month period to May 31, 2020. There's certainly been another busy year for our property and development team. Despite ongoing COVID-19 disruptions, we delivered 217 units in key suites across our brownfield portfolio and 3 geographical regions. This was the number of new units and care suites that we intended to build over the full 12-month period. So it was very pleasing to achieve this result for the shorter 10-month period. Overall group occupancy has increased to 92.4% for the 10-month period compared to 91.5% for the full year 2020. In terms of our strategy, we are focusing on being the provider of choice for critical infrastructure and essential services for older people. We adopt a people-centric approach in everything that we do. whether it's in the design of our buildings. So that we said that our care suites can accommodate couples or our hospitality led dining experiences or the investment in our newest practitioners so that we can continue to provide outstanding care to our residents. Turning now to our people. Our people are at the very heart of what we do. We are pleased to announce that we have made 3 senior appointments prior to March 31, 2021 to further strengthen our leadership team. Kathryn Waugh has been promoted to the role of Chief Financial Officer. After joining Oceania in 2009 as Financial Controller. Kathryn is a qualified chartered accountant, and prior to joining Oceania, she held senior roles at PricewaterhouseCoopers. Anna Thorburn has been promoted to our Group General Counsel. Anna joined Oceania in 2012 after having previously worked as a senior solicitor in corporate and commercial teams at Russell McVay. Both Kathryn and Anna have been heavily involved in Oceania's corporate transactions over the last 5 years, including the IPO in 2017, the corporate bond in 2020, and the most recent capital raise and acquisitions in March 2021. Jo Copeland joined the Oceania team in March 2021 as General Manager of People and Culture. Jo started her career as an employment lawyer and then spent the last 20 years in human resource leadership across a variety of industries, including IT, telecommunications, professional services and pharmaceuticals. We've seen some other changes within our executive team. Mark Stockton is now the Group General Manager, Property and Development. In addition to overseeing Oceania's current development projects, Mark is also responsible for identifying potential land banks and development sites for further greenfield development. Dr. Frances Hughes is now Group General Manager, newsing and clinical strategy. Dr. Hughes was instrumental last year in leading the industry response to COVID-19 and who work in this area has continued with the rollout of the COVID-19 vaccines. In addition, Dr. Hughes is the Chair of NZACA Nursing Leadership Group, which provides nosing leadership and focuses on ensuring that registered users in aged care are supported to work to their full potential. Over the last year, we have demonstrated a continued commitment to invest in clinical training and development for our staff so that we can offer a genuine career development pathway and learning opportunities for all staff that enable to practice to their full potential. We strongly encourage our people to undertake professional development as clinical leadership and education are key to the delivery of quality care, improving overall skill levels in surveillance activities. We are also offering our employee share scheme to all permanent employees again this year. The scheme has achieved a 77% uptake in September 2020, and it's great for our staff to own a piece of Oceania and to further reward them for the vital role that they play in Oceania's ongoing success. I'll now move on to an overview of our current developments and our development pipeline. As Liz mentioned earlier, we have continued to make good progress on our development sites during the year and have proven our ability to execute our brownfields pipeline. We currently have 402 villas, apartments and care suites under construction across 6 regions. We noted in our annual report that 221 units and care suites are due for completion during FY 2022. I'll now provide an update on each of those developments in turn. In April 2021, we completed the construction of 49 luxury apartments and a new community center at Eden and Auckland. Eden Village is a well-established village, located in the heart of Mt. Eden. With the completion of new apartments, the village now comprises 67 care suites and 89 independent living apartments and outstanding community spaces. Some residents have already moved into the new independent living apartments, and we are continuing to take applications for these. We're expecting to complete the development of 113 key suites at our Lady Allum Village in Milford during the second half of full year 2022. Building weeks for this project are significantly advanced, and the completion of this new care development will enable further site optimization. Stage 2b of the Bellevue and Tauranga comprising 39 independent living apartments has also scheduled for completion before Christmas of this year. We completed 35 independent living apartments at the BayView in March 2021, and have already seen strong sales from this premium development. We are also scheduled to complete a further 18 new independent living villas at Gracelands in Hastings during full year 2022. Gracelands is a high sought-after village. And following the successful sell-down of the previous 2 stages, we're seeing strong levels of presales in this final stage of the villa development. We are looking forward to welcoming our newest residents to Gracelands in September 2021. Finally, we are expecting to complete 2 villas at Stoke and Nelson in the next 2 weeks. Stoke is well-located village on the main road and it offers a range of affordable 1 and 2 bedroom pillars. We're intending to continue to develop 2 new bedroom villas at this village as space becomes available on site. Looking further ahead, we are progressing other significant developments at Stage 2 in Awatere, which is in Hamilton, and Waimarie Street in St. Heliers Bay here in Auckland. Construction of 63 independent living apartments and a new community center is progressing well at Awatere. This development is expected to be completed in the first half of full year 2023. The property already comprises 39 independent living apartments as well as 90 care suites that were completed in 2019. The completion of 63 additional independent living apartments will complement the existing offering at Awatere, which is a very well-located village close to the center of Hamilton on the banks of the Waitakere River. Our flagship development at Waimarie Street is also progressing with groundworks well underway. The villages in one of Auckland's most sought after locations, with 360-degree views of Auckland and the Waitemata Harbour. Once completed, the village will comprise 79 independent living apartments and 31 care suites. And we have already had a high level of initial interest with a significant number of inquiries already registered. As you will see from the video that we're about to play, as well as offering magnificent views across Auckland, the site also boasts the largest tower crane in New Zealand, and we're expecting this development to be completed in the full year 2023. So in conclusion, we are focusing on delivering performance and growth to our investor community, moving forward, while also maintaining and continuing to deliver clinical and operational excellence. We are intending to build on the success of our projects over the last period and to continue to invest in resource and infrastructure to achieve this. As I've explained, we have a significant development pipeline to build upon, including both brownfield and greenfield opportunities. Thank you, everyone, for your ongoing support.

Thank you, Brent. We now move to question time. Are there any questions arising from the annual report from my address or the presentation from Brent? If you wish to ask a question, please raise your hand, and we will bring a microphone to you. Please advise your name, whether you are a shareholder or a proxy adviser and the name of the shareholder represented. We have a gentleman with his hand raised just back there.

Alastair Duncan, shareholder with E Tu Incorporated, one of the unions for our staff here at Oceania, I want to thank the Board for the presentations. Congratulate them on the work of building better and particularly acknowledge the dynamic that now sees a board with a proper gender balance and some recent Board appointments where we see women. But my eyes are drawn to the poster on the right-hand corner of the woman who looks interested in something going on and behind here are a series of play cards. And I've been trying to work out what those play cards might say. Because what I'm mindful of is I can find out how much our Board members receive for the important work they do. I can find out how much our senior managers do for the important work they do. But because I work for the union that represents the staff, I know what you might not. I know that too many of the women who may be behind those play cards, who work in our cleaning, our laundry, our kitchen, our administration roles, are paid on or close to the minimum wage. So my question is, 4 years ago, the organization, Oceania, aspired to become a living wage employer. What steps have been taken so that those women who continue to deliver the extraordinary service that underpins us, are actually valued properly?

Thank you for your question. Brent, would you like to address that first? And...

Sorry. So a very good question. I mean, obviously, staff are incredibly important to us. And if we think about the staff that we have across our organization, that's very large. We have over 420 registered nurses. We have over 550 kitchen and household staff. And it has been part of the desire of the company to attract, retain and provide the right sort of work environment for those staff. We do pride ourselves on paying our registered nurses well above both our peers and what we're contractually funded for as it relates to newses. And we know that this is an area of skill shortage in New Zealand. So a new grade coming into our employment starts around $29. And as the skill levels increase, we're paying around $39 for a senior registered nurse. Last year, this category of staff received a 3% to 7% pay increase to compensate them for the amazing job that they had done during COVID-19, keeping our reason in stay. Our kitchen and household staff are paid between $20 and $22.51. And they received a 3% increase in July and then a further 2% increase in April. As it relates to equal pay staff, we have about 1,500 staff that are paid in line with legislation. And each year, we assess where we sit relative to our peers. We assess where we sit relative to our market, and we're undertaking both wage rate but also environmental factors to ensure that we have a motivated, engaged and well looked after staff and the execution of what we're doing.

Thank you, Brent. We have another question from a gentlemen.

My name is Rob Chamblin. I'm a shareholder. Anybody here post on Trade Me, my name -- my post name is Maverick. I've got 3 questions. I know I'm only allowed one, but I'm hoping my friends here will give me a couple. So my first question is a technical one, and it's on the new care suite sales. Your care suite sales have been predictable, which has been good until this year when it went a bit strange. I'd worked out, you were supposed to sell about 60 in the first half of the year and you sold 84. And in the second half of the year, adjusted up to at 6 months, obviously, it was 4 months. You sold 33, which is well under the 60 I was expecting. So it raises a couple of concerns because you've said that it's not a seasonal problem in one of your other meetings. So either you sold them too quick in the first half and didn't have any left in the second half, which means perhaps a bit cheap -- which may be intentional. And the other concern is that the demand dropped off a cliff on the second half, which is a problem. So my question is if you could comment on why they were so heavy and the high in the first half and so low in the second. And if you could just give a general chat on how demand is going on the new care suites and the resales particularly in the recent deliveries that are starting to mature of Meadowbank Sands and BayView?

Yes. Okay. Well, I tempt to answer that question, if I can. I think what we'd say is we had 388 sales, 194 of those were new sales and 194 of those were resales. The key suite products sold very well in that initial first 6-month period that you've just referred to. There is often a seasonal impact if we think about available days during that Christmas period. So people either delaying a decision to move into an independent living unit or delaying a decision around care. But given that care is a needs-based product, we do see some fluctuations in the purchase, but some of it is represented in the availability of stock. So we are materially up as it relates to sales momentum year-on-year and care suites and indeed IRUs, we have just progressed quite a significant new delivery around care suite product. And that will be part of what we hope to grow into in this new financial year. So I think unpacking your question, there's nothing untoward in terms of that last period. It was only a 4-month period. So it was a difficult period, disrupted to a degree by Christmas, January, February, summer holidays. And also, there was still some lingering COVID-19 disruption in that period as well, which accounted for some softening around care suite. As it relates to new demand, we're seeing a very strong demand for our product. People have realized that to be in our facilities and in our care is a great place to be. And so we have seen renewed inquiry into our product. And we are seeing strong sales momentum in both new sales product that we have available and resale that we're making up and down the country.

That was the answer I was hoping for. But when you said it wasn't seasonal previously, it threw me off. The second question is really easy. This is probably for Greg or for Liz, being the building people. Can you comment on the supply issues we're hearing around the country and cost of trades, how that might be affecting Oceana's pipeline and budgets?

Greg, do you want to answer that?

. Yes, sure.

And we've got Mark in the front row as well.

. That's right. Well, I might get Mark to step in if I can't answer it all. But you're right that there is pressure in labor and resources, particularly materials with some -- yes, some large price escalation. Now what I'm pleased to say under our model, what we've got is fixed-price contracts. And so we're actually sitting in a very good position. But that's not to say, as we go into our new projects, there will be escalation in pricing. And hopefully, that will be captured in sales.

And what about supply issues?

. Well, we have resourced up to handle that. We do a lot of that internally. So we really manage and over -- and it's probably not the right word, but we certainly have a great oversight into the materials, particularly for the subcontract tractors. And so we're really -- we're here as a watching eye on everybody to make sure we can get our projects completed on time. And I know in instances, we've got -- we have invested in storage. So in certain items where we know they are hard to procure. We've actually brought in early, and we are paying for that storage of those items.

May I ask one more or have I overstayed? Your'e welcome. This one is probably for you, Brent. I'm very nervous, sorry. This one is for you, Brent, sorry. With the government regulations that you touched on earlier, looming, the overhaul. My question is can you give your opinion on what they might be asking for? Because we've heard all kinds of things from something reasonable to -- well, in my opinion, unreasonable sharing capital gain and all that stuff. So what might they be asking for and what it might look like? And more importantly, would that actually affect Oceana materially? Are you doing this kind of stuff already with your contracts?

Yes. So I would like to think that what people are most interested in is the resident voice. So if legislation is improving and securing resident voice, both of that relates to the services that we and others provide, then that's a good start. Now we've already set ourselves the challenge of doing that, and that's part of a change in our marketing brief around believe and better, setting that expectation for ourselves as an organization. I think there has been a lot of commentary in the presentation. It's actually hard for people to make sense of it. Oceania holds itself to a very high standard as it relates to the services that it provides. A number of the topics that have been canvassed by the retirement commissioner, are things that we already had well in hand. We're very sensitive to residents leaving our care and having weekly fees continued or independent residents with weekly fees continuing. We've always been in the practice of stopping those immediately. We're very sensitive to buying back residents apartments or villas or key suites as they vacate because that's the very nature of where we make our profits by reselling that product. So I think it's the legislation and the commentary focuses on what we're providing as a service and encouraging participation as people age, and we know there's a very strong tailwind of an aging population. If that's where the focus is, and we are totally supportive of that, we are not supportive of the narrative around agent review the sector provides fantastic services to residents. And as a consequence of that, we're going to continue to speak into that just through what we do. We'll see that with admissions, we'll see that with the services. We'll see happy and full villages through that provision of service. I sit on both the Retirement Village Association Board and the New Zealand Aged Care Association Board and am actively interested in those things that are in the industry and actually getting some facts out there. We surveyed 95% of the resident population. I'm talking as a sector and have had very high approval rates. And we wouldn't characterize residents as vulnerable residents in our care are intelligent. They've been involved in many property decisions over their life in the way in which they contract with us is relatively straightforward, and they seek independent advice and have an opportunity to change their mind. So it's actually hard to get cut through, but the best thing we can do is just keep delivering great service.

Okay. That's me done. Thank you for your patience. And congratulations on a great year getting through COVID and your 2 acquisitions this year. Thank you very much.

Hello.

Carly Bank, I'm shareholder. I've been hearing some alarming stories about the porosity of cheap Chinese steel that has gone into CBD boards. So I'm asking about your procurement, especially when supplies are in short supply. Where are you sourcing your steel and concrete from.

You're going to have a medal, Mark.

That's a very good question. So well, concrete, that's pretty obvious where that's coming from. That's local. But Mark, just on steel, I mean, we're very stringent on our every think meeting standards. But I suspect there's some risk, of course. But Mark, maybe you would like to step in and give some further depth?

Yes, here we go. You are quite right. There's been instances of -- and reports in the press around steel from China. We did find it on one of our jobs we've removed it all, and that was 2 or 3 years ago. So we're sourcing all our stuff. As Greg has already mentioned, we've got our standard contracts in place, specifications, but clearly stipulate what contractors can and can't do. We're very much around getting our levels of compliance, our documentation. Some of our stuff does come from overseas. That's just the nature of the game, but it's making sure that you're employing competent contractors via our standard contracts to make sure the surety of supply.

So is it coming from China?

Some of it will do, absolutely.

And are you testing at all?

. No. We rely on the independent testing and validation that comes with the product. We don't physically independently test ourselves. We have our consultants who go through the checking process to make sure the product meets the building codes in New Zealand. And it's also independently verified and checked by council as well as part of the building consent process.

Yes. My name is Hailey Cheng. I'm a shareholder of this company. Yes, just to say a little a little bit about the steel. What about the [indiscernible] in the South Island, they are making steel, then can they supply those steel to me, to us. Yes, because of also I say I have built my own house 20 years ago, and I used New Zealand steel for the -- one of the beaming's and it's really, really, very good because there are 2 earthquakes happen to my house. I was at home. And one is a 4.8-something around [indiscernible] island. And also, I say I was sitting in my chair, suddenly like bungee jump, it just went down and then went up. But then I also don't know what's happening. And then at the 6:00 o-clock news is earth quick. But I look at my house, nothing wrong. And really nothing wrong. Both as the house built by New Zealand steel is really #1, not to save money but to have the best product, yes. Thank you.

Thank you for that. And that's good that you had a good experience.

Thank you. My name is John Boscawen. I'm a proxy holder on behalf of Hobbs Enterprises as a shareholder in the company. But my questions relate around the theme of parking. But before I raise them, let me just first congratulate the directors and the management on obviously running this business during the period of COVID, it was very difficult for old people. I've had the privilege of visiting most of the company's facilities, including all of the facilities you mentioned today. And I think you're building some of the best facilities in the country. And I'd be very surprised if there's any facility other than that can beat Waimarie Street once it's completed. Having said that, building premium facilities requires or obtaining premium prices requires you providing premium facilities. And if you look at a place like the Sands or Meadowbank, you fully provided underground car parking. When I go to Bellevue and Christchurch, which is where the directors held the meeting in March, I don't see any underground car parking. I see car parking totally on grade. I know the first stage is only 22 independent apartments and most of that building is care suites, most of the care suite clientele won't be driving. But you are planning to build some more independent units alongside it. So my first question relates to Bellevue. Are you satisfied with the parking rumens in Bellevue because the way I see it, a very active 82-year-old, 85-year wanting to go shopping is going to have to walk out in winter with an umbrella to their car and bring the groceries back with an umbrella. And I think that's a problem, and I think that will -- you may prove me wrong, but it will impact your ability to get premium prices at Bellevue. That's my first question.

Yes. So if I can tackle that, John. I think it's a very important point. And thank you for your positive comments about our build profile as I know that you have visited a number of our sites. Part of the reason why we have on-grade parking at Bellevue was to do with the resource consent and just the street frontage as it relates to Windermere, so Windermere Street. We are sensitive to the local environment and Christchurch can be cold over the winter months as we know. One of the things that we're thinking about because there isn't the provision of underground on-site parking before we get underway on our next stage of development. is we have the ability to put in some overhead canopies for parking. And we also are thinking about the provision of some form of concierge car parking to support residents for those more inclement days as you described, grabbing groceries out of the car and making the way along and into their apartments. We have 26 apartments. There's plenty of parking on site, but as part of our resource consent, we weren't able to put the normal canopies that you might see fragments taken in a shopping car park, which provides some of that additional protection. So that is very much on our mind, John. It is good to raise it. We do think about design. And we certainly put our hand out when we get it wrong and try to do better as we move forward. So we are thinking sensitively about that particular site. We have another site in the portfolio in Tauranga. Where we're doing multistage development of apartments. And there's some villas on that property that had some disruption. And so we put in a concierge car parking service in place for a small number of disrupted resonance to just be sensitive to the very need that you're talking about.

. Sorry, John. Just look -- just to add to that -- I don't know what's -- is that working? That's better. The one of the key concerns in that Christchurch location is liquefaction. And so hence, we've made sure that we are not going to ever have that problem with that design. So I think that's important to note.

Thank you. And the point you make is well made. And I guess that highlights the fact that I could have this private conversation with Brent myself, but I'm raising it publicly because it's a chance to talk to all of the directors. And Mr. Tomlinson, I know you've got a big personal interest in this company. my money is with you. So I take some comfort that you're representing both of us. So let's go back to BayView.

. John, all of us.

Let's go back to BayView. Brent, you've built 35 independent units there. My understanding is there's only about car parking for about 30 in the underground car park. You are completing, you say today, a further 39 later this year. So essentially only 1 person or 1 apartment and 2 can have under cover car parking. You're also -- we're proposing [indiscernible] similar to build at least 2 if not 3 more blocks. Now my understanding is they don't have underground car parking. So the ratio of people who enjoy undercover access might only be 1 person in 5 or 1 unit and 5. And just like Waimarie Street is in the heart of the wealthiest part of New Zealand. BayView is very well located in Central Tauranga. You've got a tremendous chance to create a premium product and get a premium return. But if people who have got $1 million or $1.5 million to spend on independent apartment find that, hey, I've got to go and park my car. If that's out by [indiscernible], it will be 200 meters. It will be impossible and you'll basically deny yourself a sale. And I guess the reason I raised it finally, my final point with the directors, as I do think you need to look at the design of that Tauranga to maximize the returns.

Yes. I think that's very useful feedback, John. I guess -- We are also conscious as we think about car parking in those future stages that you've mentioned at BayView. Just what's happening with motor vehicles generally. So we are thinking about sustainability. We're thinking about our carbon footprint. We're thinking about the cost of underground car park. We've got an eye to the premium product. We are a premium operator as it relates to the new developments that we have underway. So we have seen as with [ Canvas ] residents voice around car parking that, that ratio has come below 1 car park, 1 resident. It sort of sits around 0.8 but we've also got an eye to the future in terms of where motor vehicle transportation is going and the need that residents may be coming into our apartment living without our car or sensitive to selling a car. So recognizing that we have fantastic amenity, which allows them to still access the community, still access our transportation options on site. So it's very good that you've raised it. And we're balancing the demands of both of that as we think about those future stages. We are not out of the ground entirely in BayView, which is going to be a magnificent property until sort of 3, 4 years from now as it's fully realized. So that's part of the balance that we're working through, John.

Thank you, John. That was an easier questioning than the Board gave you, Brent.

It was easier than the Board papers. You must have read my Board papers, John.

Do we have any other questions? No other questions. Thank you. I will now move to the formal part of the meeting. All items of business are ordinary resolutions. To be passed, they require approval by a simple majority of more than 50% of the votes of shareholders entitled to vote and voting on the resolutions. Voting will be by poll. Each share held by shareholder confers 1 vote. To cast your vote, please complete your voting paper by ticking for, against or abstain in the appropriate place for each resolution when I invite you to vote on the resolution. Voting papers will be collected at the end of the meeting by Computershare. If you have any difficulty, please raise your hand and a member of Computershare team will assist you. Reelection of directors. So we move to next item, which relates to the election of directors under Rule 2.7.1 of the NZX listing rules, a director must not hold office without being reelected past third annual meeting following that director's appointment or 3 years, whichever is longer. In this case, Alan Isaac offers himself for reelection as a director of the company. The Board has determined that in its view, if reelected, Alan Isaac will continue to be a non-independent director for the purposes of the NZX listing rules. Alan Isaac extends reelection with the support of the other directors of the company. A brief biography regarding Alan is included on the website and I now invite him to briefly talk in support of his reelection

Thanks, Liz. By profession, I'm a chartered accountant, but have had significant commercial experience with a range of international and New Zealand operations. I mentioned the commercial experience because it's not necessarily fashionable today to be a [indiscernible]. And in my opinion, experience is being undervalued in the interest of greater diversity, thankfully for the Cricket fans in the room, the New Zealand Cricket has still valued experience so well done, Ross Taylor. I retired from KPG in 2006 after leading the firm in New Zealand for 10 years and have been a professional director since then. In my governance roles, I chair a number of Audit and Risk Committee. So in addition, my other current listed companies are [indiscernible] in scales. And I have, in recent times, been on the listed company Boards of Opus, Wakefield Hospital and Fliways. As a nonexecutive director, I'm particularly proud of my IPO track record. I mentioned that because I've been involved in 3 listings and they've all been successful and then someone will be well aware that a number of listings in the last 5 or 7 years haven't been successful. Also for the last 2 years, up until in theory, next Tuesday, COVID alert levels in Wellington providing, I've been the President of the Institute of Directors in New Zealand, which -- it's been a fantastic experience, but it's also facilitated me keeping up to date with current governance issues. Liz has commented in her address on the Board's succession plans and 1 or 2 other items that were being raised by the New Zealand Shareholders Association and their review of our governance, partly in response to one of the points that they raised. I would mention that either personally or through my family trust, I have an interest in more than 280,000 Oceania shares. So in summary, I believe we have a well-balanced board and I look forward to your support so that I can continue to add value to Oceania, which as Brent mentioned earlier, has a strong balance sheet and is well placed to achieve profitable growth. Thank you.

Thank you, Alan. I now move that Alan Isaac be reelected as a Director of the company. Can I have a seconder, please? Thank you, Bruce. Is there any discussion? I now put the motion -- sorry? Thank you.

My name is Shri Skofa. I am a Bimba as well. And I also work for you guys. My question is do you go support mandatory safe staffing? Mandatory staffing, do you support it?

Not sure I understood that question.

If I can assess, mandatory safe staffing means that we are believing in better and taking a leadership role. Do you support safe staffing being mandatory?

What we see in the support safe staffing, that's what we're in the practice of doing. There may be some reasons as to why that can not...

To point of order, my question is not to you. My question is to the candidate.

Well, absolutely, I do. As liz has mentioned and Brent's mentioned, the safety of our staff is paramount. So if that helps, but certainly, personally, that's my position also. Incredibly important, obviously.

Thank you.

And the same question to each of the candidates, please.

We'll ask them to address that in their presentations. So as I've now put the motion, and if there's no further questions, I invite you to vote by marking resolution 1 in your voting card, please. I'll give you a moment to do that. [Voting]

I advise that the Board is holding a total of 232,276,502 directed and discretionary proxies, which will be voted in favor of this resolution. I now move to Resolution 2. In this case, Dame Kerry Prendergast, offers herself for reelection as a Director of the company. The Board has determined in its view, if reelected, Dame Kerry Prendergast will continue to be an independent director for the purposes of the NZX listing rules. Dame Kerry Prendergast stands through reelection with the support of the other directors of the company. A brief biography regarding Dame Kerry is included on the website. And I now invite her to briefly talk in support of her reelection. Kerry?

Thank you, Liz, and good afternoon, our shareholders. As you heard, my name is Kerry Prendergast, and I've been a Board member since the IPO in 2017. My skill set -- and I'll list them, I trained as a nurse in 1970, went on to get a deployment intensive care, then worked as a midwife in management roles. And so I had 40 years in the health sector. I had 24 years in local government in Wellington. I've had -- which gives me a good understanding of the Resource Management Act, which we made around getting building consents and resource consents. I was a member of Work Safe for the first 3 years of its being set up by government. And so I had a good understanding of health and safety. I've had 15 years of choosing residential and rest home and hospital level care for both of my parents, and more recently, an aunt and uncle where I hold the enduring power of attorney. And finally, I'm a shareholder. So all of the above makes me really passionate about this sector, and I am honored to be part of this board. We attract 2 sorts of clients to our properties. There are residential clients who choose to buy a villa or an apartment. And then our rest home and our hospital and our dementia clients. The former, the people who purchase a unit, what they're looking for is they want a location that's close to amenities. They want ambience, they want great specifications. They want to feel a great place and they want added value amenities, both within and close by. For those who are there as our patients, they want quality spaces, of course, and they want really good clinical care. They want to feel safe. And whether they're choosing to go into a risk time or their families or their children are choosing for them. They're looking for quality clinical care. And you want to know as a child of a parent that your parent or family members are going to be safe and well looked after. We invest in our staff in lots of different ways to make sure that they deliver the sorts of level of care that is both mandated but also as a rest home provider, we make sure happens. What's good for our residents and our patients and our brand is that we fulfill all of the requirements I've listed. And that means we get a good return, and that's good for all of you, our shareholders. Thank you very much. I look forward to your support.

Thank you, Dame Kerry. I now move that Dame Kerry Prendergast is reelected as a Director of the company. Can I have the seconder, please? Thank you, Bruce. I now put the motion and invite you to vote by marking resolution 2 on your voting card. Before I -- are there any questions? No? I'll leave you some time to vote -- to cast your vote. [Voting]

I advise that the Board is holding a total of 232,833,380 directed and discretionary proxies, which will be voted in favor of this resolution. These numbers are a mouthful, aren't they? In this case, the resolution 3, reelection of Sally Evans. In this case, Sally Evans offers herself for reelection as a director of the company. The Board has determined that if reelected, Sally Evans will continue to be an independent director for the purposes of the NZX listing rules. Sally Evans stands for reelection with the support of the other directors of the company. I'm assuming that Sally is online. So she is online. So a brief biography regarding Sally is included on the website, and I will now invite Sally to briefly talk in support of her reelection via the video link. Welcome back, Sally.

Thanks, Liz. Firstly, I apologize for not being in Auckland today. It is disappointing that after a prolonged period of living without restrictions in Sydney, that I am unable to join you today. I was fortunate to be able to join our May Board meeting in Auckland and spend that time catching up with the executive team. While we have all managed the change to online meetings and frequent phone calls, it was great to be able to meet the executives and make the most of those face-to-face conversations. Thank you for considering my reelection to the Oceania Board. Soon as I graduated from the University of Otago, I have worked in sectors where it was possible to influence and lead structural and systemic change in hospitals and aged care. It has always been with the intent to provide better outcomes for patients and residents. If I couldn't see the value and the benefit to the users of our services, I couldn't see a point of any of the change. The last 10 years of my executive career was in the field of investing in residential aged care with a focus on the operational side of the business and delivering better care for residents. Since then, I've focused my career on working as a director in businesses that are leading change in retirement and aging sectors. And that is a reason I was particularly delighted to be a member of the Oceania Board. I'm also a member of the Advisory Council to the Australian Aged Care Quality and Safety Commission. And I am a huge supporter of the changes that will ensure that the [indiscernible] safe system for staff and for residents. It has been a pleasure working with the Board and executive at Oceania and meeting many of the residents and staff across New Zealand. I welcome the opportunity to stand for reelection and join the Board and executive in delivering our plans to bring believe and better to life. Thank you.

Thank you, Sally. I now move that Sally Evans be reelected as a Director -- I'll give the opportunity in just a moment, that she may not have heard that earlier -- that Sally Evans be reelected as a Director of the company. Can I have a seconder, please? Bruce, thank you. Thank you. Is there any discussion? Now ask Sally. Just to answer your question because the connections from here to Sydney may not be that clear. So the question was, do you support safe staffing?

Yes, safety is a fundamental requirement. Unless staff is safe, our residents won't be safe. So the 2 for me are very connected.

Are there any other questions? Any other discussion? Thank you. I now put the motion and invite you to vote by marking resolution 3 on your voting card, please. [Voting]

I advise that the Board is holding a total of 232,856,785 directed and discretionary proxies, which will be voted in favor of this resolution. I now move to Resolution 4. In this case, Gregory Tomlinson offers himself reelection as a Director of the company. The Board has determined that in its view, if reelected, Greg Tomlinson will continue to be an Independent director for the purposes of the NZX listing rules. Greg Tomlinson stands for reelection with the support of the other directors of the company. A brief biography regarding Greg is included on the website and I now invite him to briefly talk in support of his reelection. Greg?

. Well, thank you, Liz, and welcome all. Just -- it was always hard going last, particularly behind the rating of these people around me. Look, I originally started in the aged care industry in the mid-1980s, building cluster housing for the elderly and quickly moved into integrated care. And I've experienced firsthand the evolution of the needs-based model of today. I'm very proud of the model that has been built to service our New Zealand elderly. And all this has started from a very humble background if you think about care for the elderly. I still hold the passion today for providing our aging population access to the best available housing and care to meet their changing needs of today, and importantly, the future. My skills and experience now, again, may not be rated like the others around me, which I put my hand up about. But my skill's really around risk and reward assessment. I've got a strong background in construction and development, business building. and importantly, the business of looking after the care of the elderly. Oceania -- sorry, better put my glasses on. Yes. So really looking after Oceania's customers, employees and shareholders, of which I'm one. If I am reelected, you have my commitment for another term of this very exciting business as it remodels itself to become the top provider in arguably the most strategic locations of New Zealand. Just to the workers' union, of course, because -- of course, I really take great pride in looking after staff. There's -- yes, it's not an accident. This business has 3,700 residents and 2,800 staff. So you've got to be on your game to get to this level. And this is -- regardless, this business, it wasn't that long ago, it was a start-up. And I -- being one of the original start-ups in this industry. So I know that well. So I understand what it takes to keep everybody happy and keep everybody employed and importantly, pay the taxes and give a return to shareholders. I hope that answers it. Thank you.

Thank you, Greg. I now move that Gregory Tomlinson is reelected as a director of the company. Can I have the seconder, please? Bruce, you're doing a great job there. Thank you. Is there any discussion? Thank you. I now put the motion and invite you to vote by marking resolution 4 on your voting card. [Voting]

I advise that the Board is holding a total of 232,734,445 directed and discretionary proxies, which will be voted in favor of this resolution. The next item is the remuneration of the auditor. I now move that the directors be authorized to fix the remuneration of PricewaterhouseCoopers as the auditor of the company for the ensuing year. Can I have a seconder, please? Bruce, again, you're so good. Thank you. Is there any discussion? I now put the motion and invite you to vote by marking resolution 5 on your voting paper. I'll just give you a moment to do that. [Voting]

I advise that the Board is holding a total of 232,464,005 directed and discretionary proxies, which will be voted in favor of this resolution. Thank you to you all -- to all of you for your voting. This concludes the meeting's formal resolutions. The results will be published to the market later today. Please put your completed voting papers in the ballot box as you leave the meeting and please ensure that your voting paper has been signed. So you may have ticked the boxes, but please make sure that you've signed it. I now move to general business. Are there any items of general business that haven't previously been covered within the meeting that you as shareholders now wish to raise, please? Again, please raise your hand, and we will get someone to bring a microphone to you. State whether you're a shareholder or a proxy holder and the name of the shareholder you represent. Yes? Thank you.

Jim Familton, shareholder. I note that you're building a property 5-story level or even more than 5-story level. Can you tell me what people prefer? Do they prefer to be in the upper level or the lower level?

You can answer that, all of the above.

I think all of the above. Sorry, my microphone has come on quite loud. I think all of the above, to be honest. I mean, some people like the security of being on a lower level and having access to a small garden area. Some people like being in the middle of the building and some people obviously like the higher floors, which may offer a view advantage or a feeling of looking out across the property. So it's not an easy one to call, but what we do have is obviously properties, which have a mix of residence across all of those levels enjoying our services.

Can I just make a comment? In New Zealand, we seem to have a strong opposition to building apartments at the moment. That's why I asked the question.

Yes. I think people are aware of the general housing crisis that exists in New Zealand. I think there's general acceptance that higher density is required, whether that's in a residential setting or whether that's in the services and products that we provide. So we're sensitive to that. Our sites up and down the country, we find worked very well by having a combination of different building types, whether it's a villa or whether that's an apartment or whether that's a care suite. It's inevitable that we will go to high density. And I'm talking about just the broader market with the unavailability of land.

Thank you, Brent. Are there any further questions? No? No further questions? Yes, in the back there. So we'll bring a microphone to you.

Derek Tan, shareholder. In the recent rights issue, was there a formula used to allocate the shares? And was it applied universally?

Yes, there was a formula that was disclosed for the capital raise. We were very, very encouraged by the level of those subscriptions that we received for the capital raise. I think it's a vote of confidence around the maturity of the business. It was a vote of confidence around the acquisitions that we were raising that capital for. Unfortunately, for all of us, we were scaled on the same basis. So all of us probably sitting in this room would have liked to have received more shares than we did. But we had applied uniformity as it relates to the scaling, both on the retail offer and on the private placement. While we were flooded with demand, we didn't take that extra demand. So we're very sensitive to raising enough capital to put the business on a good path as it relates to its growth. But to be sensitive to loyal shareholders that have traversed with us, the capital raising represented about 8% of the total shares that we had on available at the time. So we were sort of sensitive to the size and also consistency around application and proceeds.

Would you be able to review the allocation formula, please?

Well, we -- yes, in what sense?

Sorry?

In what sense because we have applied it...

I just want to see if it's applied fairly.

Roger, would you like to answer that?

Is that a secret?

Sorry? The way the scaling was applied consistently and evenly and pro rata, yes. So yes, it was done on that base pro rata and consistently applied.

Would you -- sorry, would you give the formula, please?

Well, the formula was simply the division of shares that you'd asked for relative to the demand that we had. So I guess on that basis, if you had asked for 10,000 shares, and we had $30,000 worth of demand for those 10,000 shares, and that's a ratio that we've used for the scaling. So if we had 3x the coverage for the shares, then that's the sort of the scaling that was applied.

So...

On the question about consistency, there wasn't a level of assurance in terms of the allocation process. So the allocations as calculated were checked by the share reach. So it's consistently applied and we got the assurance that, that had taken place. So everybody was treated the same way.

Thank you. Are there any other questions? Yes? There's a question, three rows back, in the middle. Okay.

My name is John [indiscernible], shareholder. My question is, can you see any more raising of capital coming up in the next few years like we had recently?

We do not have any on our agenda at the moment. But if we see opportunities to acquire, grow, develop then we will be coming back to shareholders.

Yes. So if potentially you might need to raise capital, then why not reduce or stop the dividend altogether so you have the money available?

Because some retail investors like to get -- receive the dividend. And secondly, if the shareholder wishes to reinvest, we offer the DRP dividend reinvestment plan. So if you want to keep investing in Oceania, you can participate in the DRP.

But Wouldn't you save the cost of raising capital if you had the dividends sitting in the bank? And also tax, it wouldn't be tax...

But it's not material enough, the dividend, to -- if we're going to raise capital for large acquisitions, we'd be much more than our dividend. And as I say, to appeal to a broader range of investors, it is more ideal to actually have a dividend, but we get a broader base of investors.

Yes, shareholder. Like to complement his question because I'm a shareholder of Aveda as well, and I think they save a lot of money just by buying more villagers because each year, they will not raise more than 20% of the company's shares to give them to the existing villagers. We would like to sell to Aveda. So Aveda just got this villagers, free of charge. Yes. that's good. Yes, yes and -- oh, sorry. Yes, thank you. I think you still have tea now.

Thank you. We have a question at the back. There's -- the afternoon tea is in the back room. So I can assure you it's not running away. We've got plenty of time for questions.

My name is Robert Gray, shareholder. I thoroughly dislike these capital raisings. I put on one the past, where I applied for a whole lot of shares, I got least than 1% I asked for. And since then, I very rarely take the mark, but I nearly always take up rights issues. I guess don't like a whole lot of money that I'm not voting around that I'm not going to get any shares for and in it gets paid back into the account. It's a bit of a nuisance. Most people, I think, agree to prefer shareholders and prefer rights to shares.

Thank you for letting us know your preference. Look, we've got any other questions? Certainly, you only get an opportunity once a year to ask us questions.

My name is Josh. I run the Josh [indiscernible] YouTube channel. We talk a lot about your stock on the YouTube channel. Just a question on...

So you're representing a shareholder?

Shareholder, private individual. So I was just wondering on the DHP subsidy allowance. Has that been -- can you provide any commentary on the government subsidy for HK for the next year? Is this higher or lower than you guys expected? And what's the impact on care going forward to the next year?

Yes. That's actually ahead of us. So I can't comment because it doesn't get -- gazetted until the 1st of July. It's fair to say that Oceania and its peers have provided essential services. We've seen the great services that were provided across the sector during COVID. And hopefully, that's represented in the funding that we receive from the DHPs. But we won't know what that is until on or around the 1st of July of this year.

There's a question down here.

Any forecast for the next year or first -- next half year or next year for the performance of the company?

Well, we've provided, hopefully, our outlook in terms of developments that we have underway for the next financial year. It's been a good canvassing of questions. So very grateful for that in terms of how the sector is performing and what lies ahead of us. So our materials do provide a very strong and transparent view of what we hope to achieve in the next year.

Thank you, Brent. All right. Well, thank you for your attendance. I now declare the meeting closed and invite you all to join the directors and management for afternoon tea and refreshments. I would also like to remind you to please put your completed and signed voting papers in the ballot boxes as you make your way to afternoon tea which is served in the room behind us. Thank you very much. We'll see you next year.