Omani Qatari Telecommunications Company SAOG (ORDS) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

[Foreign Language] Hello, and welcome. This is Younis Al Naabi, Head of Investor Relations. I would like to thank all of you for joining today's call to discuss Ooredoo Oman 2023 financial results. As part of today's discussion, I'm pleased to introduce Mr. Bassam Al-Ibrahim and Nasser Al Yaarubi. Bassam, he is the CEO; Nasser Al Yaarubi, he is the CFO; and [ Mohamed Mumtaz, ] Director, Financial Accounting. First, our CEO and CFO, will take us through the results of 2023, and then it will be followed with Q&A session. Before we move in Slide #2, for necessary disclaimer points. If you refer to Slide #2, in the course of today's discussion, we may make some forward-looking statements. This will be based on the information available to us as of today, and you should not assume that in the future, we will continue to hold these views. Also, we do not commit to identify you if our views got changed, we therefore, refer you to our public filing in MSX for some factors that may cause forward-looking statements to differ from the actual future events or results. Now we'll move to the presentation. Mr. Bassam?

Thank you. [Foreign Language] Welcome everyone. Thank you for joining us today for our 2023 results. It's a pleasure to have you here. Lots of familiar faces and people that we know in our previous sessions. So you're very used to our presentation lineup and the process of us going through that at the moment. So let me just take you through the key highlights for our 2023 revenue, EBITDA and net profit. 2023 has been a year for us to return back to growth. It is the intention of the -- myself and the management team to regain the market share that we have lost. It is also an important factor for us to do a lot of cleanup, to have the proper strategy for us moving forward that will allow us to grow in the key areas that we believe are extremely important for the company's future success. So some of the key achievements that we have done in 2023. And as you can clearly see, as we're moving forward, some of the efforts and strategies that we have set up in 2023 are now reaping the rewards as we go into 2024 also. So some key achievements are: one of them, mobile postpaid revenue has grown by 2.8%. Our B2B fixed revenue has also clearly shown growth by 3.7%. The major driver and a huge boost has been ICT with 124%. And devices has also been a key driver for our growth of around 45%. During this time, we've also taken initiatives to improve one of our key aspects and part of our strategy for -- as of last year and moving into this year is, of course, customer satisfaction. Our CSAT score has also made tremendous improvements in that area as we look at areas of how we can specifically target the customer and have this one-to-one relationship with them to improve our relationship with the customer and to give them that special VIP service that we always would like to give the customer. At the same time, we've increased our landing stations. We have currently 2 landing stations now to improve the quality of service that we provide to the customer, meaning this could improve our capacity to the Internet, which would provide better service to the customer. Our customer base, because of the strategies that we have taken forward, has allowed us to increase our customer base by about 50,000; 3,000 of those being in fixed and 47,000 of that has been in the mobile base. If we move on to the next slide. This is the market share slide overall and throughout Oman. The differentiation, of course, between our competitors Omantel, ourselves, the resellers being MVNOs and such. And of course, the new entrant to the market is Vodafone. As I clearly mentioned earlier, the key factor for this slide is for you to see the fact that we have improved our customer base by about 50,000; 3,000 of those being fixed, 47,000 of those being mobile. The intention as well as part of our strategy to slowly start to regain our base in the market share space, specifically in mobile. This is a key area and part of our core business. We believe that the initiatives that we have put in place has stopped us for declining and the intention is to move forward and improve and increase our market share within the mobile base, which we believe is to be one of our key factors and one of the major drivers for revenue for Ooredoo Oman. We move on to the next slide. Here, the customer base, as mentioned before, has shown successful improvement based on the strategies that we have put place between myself and the CXOs within the organization, an improvement of around 1.7%. Prepaid has improved by 3.4% and postpaid, as you can see, the slight decline. But the point of the decline here is not because of just pure reduction. This is a strategy that we have taken in place internally. What we did was we cleaned up any non-value generating customers. The intention here is to improve the base purely through ARPU. Yes, there are customers that have provided little amounts of ARPU. What we're trying to look for here is quality ARPU improvement with regards to our customer base, reduction in the postpaid means that not necessarily means that we've lost that revenue. The intention here is to improve the revenue base, have quality revenue customers, improve our ARPU levels, which is the key strategy that we had in 2023. And of course, we're moving with that going forward into 2024. And this will continue to improve based on the strategy that we have set into place in 2023. Looking at our fixed. Fixed likewise has improved by 1.6% based on our strategy that we had established in 2023. That's an additional 3,000 customer base. And this has been an advantage for us because that increase has purely been in the FTTH space, which as Ooredoo believes is the supreme service to provide to the customer. This is the kind of customer quality that we would like to give to our customers. So our increase in FTTH strategy shows that this is now reaping the rewards from 2023, and now we're going to continue with that in 2024 as well. Moving on to the next slide. Of course, our part of our strategy is to always increase our 5G rollout plans, aggressive plans have been put in place as of last year. We put a lot of aggressive drive even towards the end of 2022, moving into 2023 to roll out faster to ensure that we have 5G throughout this alternate. And as part of that, you can clearly see here from the slides, they are populated areas of 5G mobile coverage, currently equate to 71.6%. By the end of Q4 2023 because of our drive in rolling out 5G and a big, huge push from our technology team, we roughly have around 2,000 sites covering 5G, are providing the 5G services. Additionally, of course, we have multiple certifications from international vendors that allow the customers whatever mobile devices they have to utilize this 5G service, ensuring that we provide superior service to our customers. Moving on to the next slide. The same goes, of course, for our fixed. There has been a massive push for us to drive, provide 5G fixed services throughout the country and in areas where FTTH fixed line services are not available, Ooredoo is always there to ensure that the customer has that excellent quality that we prevail to have. And what we do here is we provide fixed wireless access services. And because of our strategy of rolling out extensively in the 5G space, this has allowed us to improve in that area also. So we continue to boost our broadband capacity throughout by providing customers with this wireless service. The broadband has also been upgraded, as you can clearly see with access speeds reaching almost 1 GB. And in some areas, this is actually a lot faster than even FTTH, because of our prime service and quality that we give to the customer. And of course, we still continue to push FTTH because regardless of the fact we have an amazing quality service with regards to fixed wireless, the ultimate prime service that we want to give our customers is through fixed-to-the-home. So we continue to drive in that field, and that will be one of our driving factors also moving into 2024. Moving on to the next slide. Because of the massive efforts that we have done throughout the years, we have also been lucky to be awarded with many, many awards because of the initiatives that we pulled forward. And also, I take this opportunity to thank the entire organization, the leadership team, and the entire organization for the efforts they have put in place. And based on the awards you can see here, we have been awarded best and largest call center for 2023, and also on top of that, providing superior service to our customers. And this just goes towards the efforts of the fact that one of our key strategies is customer experience. Likewise, our data centers are the ultimate state-of-the-art, providing quality of service to our customers, B2C, and B2B customer base. Likewise, we improved our branding and hence forth, we are -- that has proven in the award that we've been given here by being Best Branding Campaign. So it shows that this is the feedback not only from our partners that we work with, with regards to branding, but also the customers see us more in light, more in line with what it is that they need and they see us visible within the market. Telecom Review Awards awarded us Best Digital Customer Experience, ranking one of the highest, and compared to our competitors in the market here and in the region. And likewise, of course, our continued efforts in CSR has also been noticed with the award for Best CSR initiative. So it continues to show that our strategy is not only in rolling out, but providing customer experience to our customers is not only seen by us as a clear strategy of improvement, but is also seen by the outside world, and we are being awarded for it. Thank you. And with that, I hand over to Nasser, the CFO, to run you through the financials for 2023. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Bassam, and Ramadan Mubarak, although it's a little bit late and Eid Mubarak in advance. To take you through the financials and throw a little bit more light on our financial performance, the year of 2023 has been a year where, actually, as a management, try to fix the fundamentals and review the strategy and ensure that actually, we are set for the future. From the revenue perspective, yes, we saw a decline of around 1%, of around OMR 2.5 million, mainly coming from wholesale as well as prepaid that was partially offset by growth in the postpaid as well as revenue coming from the devices and ICT. Now of course, that decline and also change in the revenue mix. If you can move to the next slide, has also represented some challenge when it comes actually to the expenses and of course, impacting the gross margin. So we can see that actually our network and interconnection operating expenses has grown in 2023, well on the 12%, mainly driven by actually the expenses that are associated with the ICT and devices as well as customer acquisition. We -- I have to remind you about the fact that actually in 2022, also we had some favorable adjustments and reversals in bad debt as well as the regulatory expenses that we were not having in 2023. On the capital expenditure, Ooredoo Oman is also committed towards actually enhancing its capabilities. It's also infrastructure. We spent around 17% of our total revenue in the year 2023 of around OMR 45 million in areas of continuing to roll out our 5G network, enhancing also our digital capabilities, our systems, our applications, our softwares as well as actually strengthening our position in wholesale. Next slide. So the profit has actually been impacted by the gross margin and also the drop in the revenue, that's why we see actually a decline of around 44% in 2023. On the cash position, which has -- we've seen actually very strong performance of our operating cash flow, and it continues actually to be our main source of funding our expansions as well as our projects. We have seen basically good control in our working capital and very strong control in our payables and receivables as well as in inventory. Now Ooredoo Oman also maintains extremely low gearing where our total loan balances is around OMR 14.4 million towards the end of the year. That's, of course, higher than last year. Of course, our main loans or financing facilities is actually in the form of overdraft kind of or revolving credit facilities, again, due to the fact that actually most of our cash needs is generated or is actually funded through our operation. Now with that, I hand it back to Bassam to give the closure notes. So Bassam, over to you.

Thank you very much, Nasser. And in summary, just an overview of the key highlights and key points of our 2023 results. Total base of our mobile has grown by 1.7%. Year-to-date revenue reduction last year was 0.96%, and this is impacted, of course, by our mobile prepaid, wholesale and fixed sales. But this was partially offset, of course, by the improvement in revenue for postpaid and ICT. Likewise, we mentioned, of course, the increase in our fixed 5G base by 27% versus the year before 2022, and again, this is, of course, all related to the strategies that we have put in place. We'll constantly be discussing or mentioning at least the strategy that we have been putting in place because this will be a key highlight for us as we move into 2024. From commercial operational overviews as well and a reminder of what we discussed is that we were still committed to providing customers with that differentiated seamless omnichannel experience. And as you can clearly see that is coming out in the results that have shown the improvement. It is also coming out in the awards that we've been given specifically in our digital space. We are ranked one of the highest throughout our operations and also compared to our peers in the market. We are committed, of course, to continue providing that exceptional experience to the customers and, of course, by default, providing value to our shareholders. And this will be part of our structure moving forward. It's clear to understand that we have adapted to the market dynamics due to the fact that, that it's now becoming quite congested. So how do we change? And we ensure that we are always differentiated and provide that excellent service to the customer is that we are driving efficiency. We are innovative, Ooredoo has always been known for its innovation. We ensure that they are strong and sustainable future for the company. This may take a strategy which is very stiff, tough, very harsh, but that's the reason why we're here, and we want to ensure that there is sustainability and growth for Ooredoo in the future. The cost efficiency program that we have put in place is ongoing, and it's offsetting, of course, the decline in gross margin. And as mentioned by the CFO, that's associated with the revenue mix change as well that we have in place. And of course, our rollout plans for the 2023 have been extremely successful. This will also continue to happen in 2024 for us to be extremely aggressive to ensure 5G is available everywhere throughout the country, that quality of 5G is international standard that we want to give to the customers. And in closing for the summary results to everyone, just to ensure that customer experience will be a major driver for the 2024 year. It will ensure that we differentiate ourselves to the competition and customer experience is considered to be an aspect of every single decision that we do in the organization to ensure that the customers brought for us, the customers first when it comes to Ooredoo and they get the best service when they are part of our network. Thank you very much, everyone.

Thank you, Bassam, and Nasser. Now we'll open the Q&A session. [Operator Instructions] Okay. The question from Vision Capital.

Hello?

Yes, We can hear you.

This is Bishen Bhalla from Vision Capital. I had a few queries. Firstly, on the operating side, you mentioned the challenges that the company has faced and sort of what cost measures you're taking. I just wanted to understand from you in terms of what would be your aspirational, let's say, gross profit or EBITDA margin in '24 if the measures that you mentioned sort of were to be implemented?

Thanks for the question. Actually, as Bassam mentioned and has been highlighted also several times that we are having a lot of initiatives and projects in place to boost our top line as well as improving also the efficiency and the overall theme that we are currently operating in is actually the effectiveness and efficiency. Yes, we are having a cost efficiency program that is continuously looking at all possible opportunities to optimize, but what we are actually driving here is how to create value or to maximize the value for the shareholders. So we are investing, and we are also continuing to seek opportunities and drive values. And at the end of the day, it's a balance between the opportunities that we are pursuing as well as actually maximizing percentages-wise, the ultimate objective is to ensure we are driving the organization in a way that continues to generate profitable or that operates in a framework that's actually growing profitably in a sustainable manner.

Okay. Because if I break down your customer base, you've seen some growth on the prepaid side, some drop on the postpaid side, which you explained. Now your key revenue driver, like you described is on the postpaid side, and I would imagine on the home broadband side, that would probably be your 2 key sort of high-margin data drivers. So sort of, a, how do you plan to retain onto this postpaid base? Are there any growth plans there? Or you just want to retain the profitable segment and let go off, let's say, the non-profitable customers on the postpaid side?

Yes. Basically, our -- we are looking at the profitability. We are viewing at actually our channels, all of them, and the quality of customers. We do have a focused strategy, but I can assure you that we are also looking carefully at our market share and ensuring that actually our market share both in terms of revenue and in terms of customer is also a success story. Bassam, probably you want to add a little bit more on this?

And just adding on to Nasser's point. You raised a very valid question. And of course, the fact we've also answered some of that with regards to the cleanup that we've gone through and ensuring that we retain our high-ARPU customers. But as you also know very well, we have made some changes in the organization and with that comes a wealth of knowledge, there will be a review of our product portfolio. And based on this, the product portfolio will drive with it improvement in our postpaid base. There will be also a funneling of our prepaid coming in, because Ooredoo has always been very successful in its prepaid base. Postpaid has been something very new for us to come into, but we want to strengthen that area. And of course, FTTH is one of our main drivers for 2024 to ensure that we not only improve the quality of service of FTTH, but also to onboard a lot more customers because we are seeing that there is a serious improvement in that area. And likewise, the quality of service that we provide to the customers has always been one of the highest ranking when we see our CSAT results.

Noted. Could you quickly comment on what the ARPU trend is, because we've seen a significantly decline on the prepaid side. Do you see it being stable? Or is there still an incremental drop quarter-on-quarter?

Yes. Our strategy is to stabilize that and push it higher. We are looking at the customer value, and we do have actually very strong customer value management team who ensures that actually we upgrade -- we develop our customers and we improve the revenue and our share of wallet from customers.

Interesting, because I mean, on the other telecom calls that we were and we saw the numbers, the ARPU numbers, because it's not available here. We've seen a constantly declining trend in the ARPU. So when you say increase the ARPU, sort of what strategy would you try and sort of deploy over there?

Yes. So yes, we are looking at actually our sales distribution. We are strengthening our partnership with -- in all -- actually, with all our partners in all touch points and of course we are also improving our distribution. We are improving our footprints in areas that previously we were not targeting. So it's a mix of actually multiple initiatives where we work closely by strengthening our internal capabilities, which are working actually in the marketing and sales of mobile as well as actually improving and strengthening our partnerships with our dealers, distributors, and all other stakeholders.

Adding onto the CFO as well, you're mentioning how are we going to increase our ARPU. And that goes to the point that we discussed earlier is that we're looking at a complete revamp of our product portfolio. We're looking at adding more value for the customer. So the customer sees the value there. And with that, he sees the value of quality that he's getting. He's also looking at the fact that there is an improvement in what he's actually getting in the past. This is the reason why there will be a trend of growth in both prepaid. Prepaid will then funnel into postpaid. And then the intention here is to grow our postpaid base to ensure a reduction of churn. The stickiness is there, longevity of the customer in our postpaid base.

Bishen, we just want to give opportunity to others.

Sure. Sure. I just have one last question, if you may allow me. You know what, I'll come back later. That's fine. Please let others go in.

Abbas from Vision Capital.

That's right. If I could ask you 2 questions. The first one is on the competitive landscape. I've seen Vodafone, obviously, market share go up. Bassam and Nasser, the analyst community has discussed this over a while. It's no secret when the third corporate comes in, it takes it from the second sort of incumbent. Now when do you see the sort of pace of increase sort of settling down? You're looking at 8% market share for Vodafone. Obviously, this has come as a hit to ARPU, not just for you, I mean, across the sector. When do you see that competitive pressure sort of easing out? And when do you see some sort of normalcy returning to the market share scenario for you guys going forward?

That's a very good question, Abbas, actually, it's a very good question. So as you clearly mentioned, you said it, and this is the understanding, and it was part of our strategy knowing that Vodafone was coming into the market. It's not uncommon or unknown that when a new entrant comes in, the usual attack is on the #2, which is Ooredoo. But overall, they're entering into the market, has also, as you clearly said, declined overall. It's also hit our competitor, Omantel. So overall, this is a decline from an ARPU base because they come in with the attraction of bringing in customer base through cheaper products, maybe lower costs to these products from a customer perspective. Any organization at the end of the day has to create value to the shareholders. And this is a major -- this is one of the biggest topics from my CFO, is to ensure that we always create value to our shareholders. At some point in time, that will have to stop, and there will be a sort of an improvement in the cost to the customer. This comes -- this will come at a cost to Vodafone. This will come to a cost for the entire industry. So the expectation is that -- and then looking at it from previous history of Vodafone entering into new markets, this usually comes within the sort of third, fourth year. So the expectation within this year, probably that they will have to stabilize out, because revenue needs to be one of the major initiatives, and it's not only attracting customer base.

Okay. Got it. So hopefully, better days ahead for the sector. And just a quick -- since you're talking about Vodafone, they're still piggybacking on your network? Or has that agreement been terminated?

Sorry, can you repeat the question, Abbas?

Is Vodafone still piggybacking on your network? Are they still using you guys for the national roaming interconnection in the country?

Yes, yes. They're still utilizing a portion of their network on ours, yes.

Okay. And the second question, of course, I ask you this on every call, Bassam and last time, I think you gave me some input regarding the tower sale, you said that the reason it's taking longer than expected is because you want the tower expertise, to sort of, the infrastructure to remain in Oman. Any update on the tower sale? Because you mentioned interestingly enough, of course, that's -- I mean, shareholder value maximization. And of course, in a challenging environment that the telecom sector is going through over the last couple of years, tower sale could be 1 sort of cash potentially available to shareholders in an environment where your operating cash flows, even when they have dipped, they are enough to sort of sustain your CapEx needs. So logically, the market keeps asking about the tower sales side. Is there any update for us?

As of the last update, there is no update as of that. It still remains the same update that we gave last time. We are still reviewing the situation that we are in with regards to the tower sale. It's still through the motions of going through a review, both financial, both commercial, what is the best value for our shareholders with regards to this. It's taking a bit longer than expected. I understand that the -- the market is asking a lot of these questions because it was a hot topic. We don't want it to fade out as well. It's a hot topic for you. This is an important topic for us as well at Ooredoo Oman and we will continue to go through the motions until we finalize and come up with the best outcome for our shareholders.

Okay. And do you see walking away from this deal or it's -- even it's too early to be mature to comment on that? Do you feel like if you don't get the value that you're looking for, you're like, hey, listen, I'm not going to -- let me revisit this in another 2 years. And if that happens, would you announce it to the market saying we've terminated the idea of sort of selling our towers?

Still remains to be seen. We still -- we have not -- we're still going through the motions of evaluation. So we can't really say that at the moment.

Okay. Okay. I may have a few more questions, but let me wait my turn in the queue. I'm sure my -- the other community has a lot of questions for you.

There is a message in the chat. So Amit, you can go ahead.

Yes. So just to understand the cost increase wanted to know why the increase in legal and professional fees, is there a huge increase there as per the filing? And also in the income statement, you have mentioned OMR 3,877, I think provisioning for impairment loss. So wanted to understand why increase in provisioning now? Yes. So this is my first question.

Yes. So basically, there are one-off charges in the legal and professional fees also associated with the tower sales and looking at actually our options, the options of the tower sales. What is the second question related to the provisions?

Yes. Has there been an increase in provisioning in 2023 versus '22?

Yes. I have to -- as I mentioned, that actually 2022 includes some favorable adjustments of around OMR 1 million that was not there in 2023 as well as actually the bad debt provision or the provision for receivables will go hand-in-hand with the increase of the customer base. And obviously the growth of the postpaid. Yes.

Okay. And how is Vodafone like performing in the postpaid market? Is it still mostly in the prepaid or they have some market share in the postpaid also?

They have launched actually postpaid recently and they have been, what we call it, also aggressive in that arena. We saw their launches, and we saw also a number of activities. They have been aggressive in both postpaid as well. But as far as we -- I know, I don't have the numbers in front of me, probably Bassam, you might add a little bit more light in terms of the split between postpaid and prepaid, but I think they are more on the prepaid.

Echoing what CFO is saying, most of that is on the prepaid.

And the question is now from Joice Mathew, United Securities.

Hello?

Yes, we can hear you.

Just 1 question on your receivables. We are still -- we continue to see increasing pressure on your receivables side. I'm seeing almost 54% -- already 54% of your receivables is as prime, but at the same time, we continue to see increase in the provisioning expenses, impairment provisions. So what's your outlook on this trend?

Yes. Of course, as I mentioned in my presentation, when you mentioned actually the cash position and the operating cash flow and looking also at all measures to control the working capital and drive efficiency in basically enhancing our receivables as well as actually controlling as well the payables. So the receivables is an area that, of course, is impacted also by the nature of the business and as we move slowly away from prepaid towards actually postpaid, the receivables will grow. We do have measures. We do have actually KPIs and control parameters to ensure that the receivables do not go out of control and of course, explodes in the form of bad debt.

So do you see further increase in impairment provisions? Because what I'm seeing is, over the last 2 years or 3 years, we are seeing continuous provisioning for impairment losses, which is right now, which stands at around OMR 12 million for over 90 days. So what's your targeted provisioning level for these exposures?

Yes. So one of the things that's actually -- which represent a challenge for all CFOs is the fact that balancing between business requirements, having actually the right or the fair share of the market. And of course, the risk associated with that. So we are looking and working closely with all functions to improve the quality of customers and enhance our, actually, what we call this, the quality of our receivables. Of course, we are looking at all possibilities in terms of our banning cycle and in terms of, of course, our collection activities that is internally. We are also engaged with external stakeholders and parties, the regulators or the [ Mela ] and the other players in the market where we can, of course, control or better control this particular aspect. So far, as of now, I can say with a great deal of confidence that actually it is under control. And things are actually looking, what we call this, stable in this particular angle.

There is a question in the chat. What is the associated roaming cost for the new offer of Roam like Home?

Yes. On the roaming cost, of course, there have been a number of activities that, of course, diluted the margin amongst which is actually the Roam like Home, where, of course, we have to act and react quickly. We are leveraging the group power and the group basically NIM, when it comes to negotiating with other operators outside to get the best deals. The way actually, it is currently done is through kind of commitments or through kind of contracts, which can facilitate the -- this particular service. Of course, there will be an increase in this, but what we are trying to do is to offset this increase through enhancing our contracts with the partners, especially in the destinations that are targeted by our customers or actually the most favored destinations by our customers.

There is another question. What is the revenue trend from Vodafone, keeping in mind they are building their own network?

We mentioned also, I think, in one of the slides, the fact that actually the contract with Vodafone is around 3 years. And of course, during this period, Vodafone will continue to roll out their own network. And it's no secret that actually as Vodafone continue to roll out their network, the revenue or the national roaming revenue from Vodafone will shrink.

Thank you, Nasser. It seems no more questions. And we want to thank you all of you for joining today's call. So please refer to Ooredoo Investor Relations website and MSX website for additional updates. And also if you have any questions, you can send us -- contact the Investor Relations department, and we'll come back to you.

Thank you, everyone.

Thank you.

Hello?

Yes. Yes, proceed.

Bishen, here again. Sorry, I was waiting in queue. Since there are no other questions, I'll just go ahead with my question. On the tower part, I understand you've given us clarity on the tower sale part, but actually on the tower itself, I just had 3 questions. A, what is the number of the passive towers that you have? What would be the cost to build a tower? And what is the current depreciated book value of these towers? If you could just give us some clarity on this.

Our current tower base that we have is around 2,700.

That's the passive infrastructure.

Yes.

Okay. And what is the cost to build a tower in your books?

I don't have the number in front of me, but actually some of them have been depreciated over -- because some of them we build them since the inception. But unfortunately, I don't have the number in front of me related to this particular category.

Okay. And what would be the current carrying value of the towers?

Sorry, can you repeat the question?

As mentioned by Bassam, is actually all options are there. It's still...

I'm not talking about towers still right now. I'm just asking what's the carrying value of the towers. Just to understand the carrying value, not the transaction value, nothing to do with the sale of towers. Just what is the carrying value of the towers in your books?

We don't have any other value about -- but the net book value of the towers.

Yes. Yes. What is the net book value of towers? That's my question.

Yes. Unfortunately, I don't have that number in front of me.

Sure. All right. I'll try and contact the Investor Relations number given on your website by tomorrow. If we could have this answer, I would really appreciate that.

We just went back in queue because yes, thank you -- thank you for the opportunity. I just went back in queue because I thought my colleagues will have more questions. I just had one more question. I think -- my question was on...

Abbas?

Yes, I am. My question was, is there any conversation about royalty revision in the market? I was talking to Omantel some time ago. I mean, they were said, that's always something that we're talking to the regulator especially on the fixed line side. Is there any sort of conversation you and Omantel have had with the regulator regarding, revising royalty downwards, simply now there are 3 operators and the market is challenging. So any sort of talks about that?

This would be in the hands of the regulator. Regulators constantly reviewing the market based on the market dynamics. So it would be up to the hands of the regulator, whether they plan to make any changes and they will, of course, inform us accordingly.

In terms of actually the -- basically, any sorts of engagement, we are looking at all expenses, all of them. There's no exception, including actually the royalty and see basically whatever can drive value and retail work and, of course, enhance the bottom line. Why not? We will welcome any reduction or any, of course, a brief in this particular area.

Right. And my last question is, I mean, I guess, Bassam would be well placed to answer this because you're also representing the larger Ooredoo group. Is there -- do you see any potential of sort of a merger or an acquisition of Vodafone? If market continues like this, no one is making money, including Vodafone. So do you feel like there's room for consolidation at all in the sector? And would Ooredoo parent would be okay with something like this?

At this time, I mean, in Oman, the market -- the industry itself is going through a change. It's going through multiple iterations. The regulator is evaluating what the market will look like now and it will look into the future because it could be something that the regulator brings up to all the operators to see whether the industry is not improving. As you can clearly see there is a downward trend. Omantel recently released also their 2023 results, showing a downward trend in their mobile revenues. So there is a review in that space. This could be something that is reviewed by the regulator to ensure longevity of the industry. But at this time, it's -- everything is up in the air.

Thank you. Thank you, all of you. And please refer to Ooredoo website and MSX website for additional updates, and feel free to contact us if you have any questions. Thank you so much.

Thank you, everyone.

[Foreign Language] Thank you much.