OneMain Holdings, Inc. (OMF) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and thanks for joining us. We're very pleased to have the management of OneMain Financial with us. OneMain is a leading nonprime consumer lender. The company has enjoyed strong growth. But what I think is has impressed me the most has been their discipline as it relates to pricing, risk-adjusted margins and capital generation and deployment. And I think that's what has made the company in my view so successful. We're very pleased to have with us Doug Shulman. Doug has been the CEO since September 2018. He joined from Bank of New York Mellon and had government position before that. Micah Conrad, the CFO, on the far right -- my far right. Micah had been with OneMain through Citi for quite a few years. So they're both very, very experienced. We're pleased to have them with us, and we're going to jump into kind of the fireside chat. So Doug, can you talk a little bit about the competitive dynamic in your business, how it's changed and how OneMain is responding to it.

Yes. No. Thanks, Moshe, and thanks for having us here. First of all, we serve non-prime customers, as you mentioned. There's about 100 million people who generally have credit scores between 550 and 700 in the U.S. And it's actually a very underserved population in the country. A lot of folks have a hard time getting to credit. A lot of banks have vacated the space. And so there's a lot of room. Our competition, we're the largest non-prime installment lender. We've recently launched a credit card. We've bought a financial wellness app, FinTech called Trim, that allows us to kind of broaden our reach. We compete generally with 4 basic types of competitors. One is while we're the largest nationwide installment lender, there's a bunch of regional players. Regional is a public one, Oportun is public one, et cetera. So in certain markets, there's competition there. Community banks and credit unions often come in and out of the space. So there's times we compete there. There are some large digital players now, Upstart and LendingClub have both moved into to our market. Some over the last year, that's -- I think digital players have come in and out. And then we also kind of other forms of lending that aren't installment loans like credit cards At the margins, people will take their -- the $1,000 they need. What I'd say is, like most credit cycles, spring of last year. So second quarter 2021, a lot of players seem to have really kind of opened up their credit box and come in and there was a lot of competition. It also demand followed. So demand was about flat where it was 2019. We've actually grown. Demand was flat, but we generated more loans than we did in 2019. And we think that's because customer loyalty. We're super focused on our customer, treating them right, setting them up in a payment plan that they can actually afford. We also opened a digital channel in addition to our branch channel. We've added products, the credit card being the most notable one. And so what I would say is it's a competitive market. There's definitely been some new digital entrants. We, as a management team, talk a lot about it that it actually takes some history and scale to manage non-prime. And if you don't know what you're doing, you're going to get in trouble over time. And so we feel really good about the loans we've been underwriting. If history repeats itself, a lot of people come in and then they go out when they don't like that. But we're not counting on that. We're just counting on it being competitive and also having to make sure we compete on great product, great customer service, great value to our customer.

Got you. Okay. And you've got guidance out there for loan growth, 5% to 10%. That's a metric that you've kind of done 3 times as you've provided. And one time, you were above the high end. The other time, you were at the high end. So talk to us about what the drivers are that you think would be -- if it were only going to be 5% or if it were going to be 10% or better, what are the things that we're going to are going to influence how successful you'll be relative to that?

Yes. So Moshe, the 5% to 10% that we put out in our last quarter earnings call is really representative of our long-term operating framework and where we think on average and over time, we can grow the balance sheet. To your point, in 2019, we grew by 13.5%, 14%. In 2020, of course, a very strange year. The balance sheet actually shrunk by about 2%. And then this past year in '21, we're up about 8.5%. So you can see varying differences depending on macroeconomic environments. And there's really a lot of factors that really come into what the ultimate receivables output is. Of course, Doug just talked about the competitive environment, there is consumer demand, there's our own credit box and our appetite for risk and how that influences the receivables that we're bringing on. Then there's also other factors that often are not necessarily thought about right off the -- right upfront, which is our customer payment behaviors. So in 2021 and 2020 because of stimulus, we saw significant customer payments, which suppresses the And then we also have the normalization of charge-offs and coming out of a very unusual environment. That creates a little bit of pressure on the receivables. So we think 5% to 10% is a good starting point for the year. I think from a macro standpoint, as I think about the bottom end of the range, the top end of the range in addition to the factors we just -- I just mentioned, is also just the overall macro environment. And we found over time, I have been in this business about 8 years. Our customer borrows when they feel good about their financial future. So a strong environment, a strong job market. Our customers are seeing some wage growth. So those are all positive influences. That could lead to stronger growth if all those other factors we talked about play out. On the lower end, you also see consumers. There is -- the inflationary environment is relatively challenging right now and consumer confidence has declined over the last couple of months. So that's something we're watching closely. Those could certainly also influence the ultimate receivables growth.

Got you. So you mentioned there's digital players that have come in. OneMain is -- and you also mentioned that OneMain added kind of the digital product. But you are at the heart of it, a branch-based business. And so could you talk about the benefits that you see from that? And how is the branch going to be -- the branch footprint going to be shrinking, growing? And just talk about the benefits that you see from having that branch network?

Yes. Look, we -- our history is branch-based lender. And we get a lot of competitive advantages from that. We're in communities. People know us. We develop a personal relationship with people, which -- when they're having trouble paying, it makes it easy for them to have a conversation and us to work something out with them. It also makes it more likely that they're going to come in. Again, with that said, I would say that's our history. We're now an omnichannel lender, and it's the way we describe it. So in 2015, we had 2,100 branches. Today, we have 1,400. So we've actually been shrinking our branch footprint. And now almost half of our loans are originated with someone not coming into the branch. What we've done is try to replicate the -- some of the secret sauce of the experience in the branch, which is both customer loyalty and also low losses. And if you survey our customers, what they'll tell you is what they like about OneMain is the experience is consultative. So they can talk through their options, what they can afford, what product they might have, whether it's a secured or unsecured or if there are some other products that we have. Two, is it's educational? So we actually do a budget with people, and we walk through your income, here's your net income from your paystub after taxes, here's your utility bills, here's your clothing bills. Do you have a kid in college? What do you need? And so we only put them in loans they can afford. And last, we get a lot of feedback that people really like dealing with a financial professional. And so if you think about -- our average customer makes $50,000 or $60,000 a year, a lot of financial institution have pushed them to call centers. And so actually being able to sit down face-to-face with someone, customers give us a lot of great feedback about that. We've recreated that experience with our digital origination where we actually usually end up on the phone with them or we co-browse and so we can look at the same computer screen with them. We offer video options. And that's -- and people -- our losses have been very consistent between digital and branch. I think that would be different if we were a pure-play digital. The other thing our branches do, which is kind of counterintuitive, is a lot of people say, I booked with you online because I know you've got a branch in the neighborhood, and I've driven past. So a, I know you're not a Russian bot. And b, I know that if I have an issue, I can come in and talk to you. And so our philosophy is we should meet the customer where they want to be met in a branch, digitally, on the phone, that's going to be our model. This year, we're closing a bunch of branches, places where we can consolidate or there are shrinking population or we're not seeing the production, but we're also opening branches in places like California where we haven't penetrated. So I think it's going to be evolutionary over time where we land. We now, like I said, half is digital, half is branch. The credit card will probably have less in branch. The branch, it will be offered, but it's a lower amount of credit, so it will have more central servicing through our call centers, I think we will evolve. We probably won't have a lot more branches, but I also don't think we'll have a ton less. I think it's an important part of our model.

Got you. Makes sense. So Micah, one of the elements of your guidance is capital generation. Can you just talk to us a little bit about what that is? And what you kind of target -- what you're targeting? And how you think about what that could be higher or lower over time? Like how does -- what are the factors that would...

Yes. So capital generation is an alternative metric we use. It's simply our adjusted earnings prior to changes in loan loss reserves. And so we view our reserves and particularly as we entered an era under CECL, where we have to reserve for all of the potential losses of a loan upfront and we moved a big slug of equity, about $1 billion or so from 1 side of the balance sheet to the other. So if you really step back and look at that, the health of the company didn't change. So we began to incorporate after tax reserves plus tangible equity into our view of capital. Another way to look at that is one of the primary things we want to protect against is loss -- losses. And so we view these two things as loss absorption capital we incorporate our leverage framework. And so in order to be consistent with that, we introduced the metric called capital generation, which eliminates that noise between moving around the balance sheet. And so that's as simple as that. It's a way we look at the capital that we're going to deploy, whether that's right back into the balance sheet or that's coming back to shareholders. And over time, we've come out and talked about the $4 billion in capital generation we plan to generate over the next 3 years. Our capital generation guidance for this year is between $1,150 and $1,200, so $1.2 billion on the high end. That equates to about $9.10, $9.50 a share in capital generation and that's how we will evaluate now the use of that capital. We also had put out a future vision about a year ago or so. And within that future vision, we anticipate being at a minimum of $1.5 billion of capital generation by 2025. So we feel really strongly about the earnings power and the capital generation power of this business, our new products, our credit card, all of the different things that we're introducing are big part of that.

Moshe, I'd just add to that. It's the basic economics of the business. It's the money that comes in and drops to the bottom line that we can either invest in the business or return to shareholders. And so we thought we owed it to our shareholders. That's how we evaluate ourselves. That's how our Board evaluates us. That's the real economics of the business. And so we want to make sure the shareholders know how we're managing the business. And so those are the metrics we put out.

And you each kind of talked a little bit about some new products in there. How important are those in the process of getting to those goals of capital generation and maybe talk a little bit about the card specifically since that's the one you've spent a lot of time on recently?

Yes, look, we -- so let me start with card and then let me talk about new products in general. So our history was we were an installment lender. When you need cash, you come to us, it's $8,000 to $12,000. It's usually episodic. You take a loan, you pay it off over time a couple of years back when you need money, you take a loan. We thought a card was a very good adjacency for us to move into. So it added a daily transactional product with our large episodic product. We think we're going to have lower cost of acquisition, and that's proving out because we already have customers, we have a database, you're coming in for a loan. Most of our customers have 5 cards in their wallet already. We already have pipes built into bureaus. We have a credit database. We have a lot of people on our credit and analytics team and our marketing teams who come from card companies. And so we think there's a lot of synergies. It's also a huge total -- well, it's a much bigger trouble addressable market than installment lending. So non-prime installment lending is an $80 billion total addressable market, we've got about 1/4 of that already on our balance sheet. Cards is $400 billion. And so it's a big area to move into. We're moving into it in a very measured pace because you asked the -- Micah answered the question about our guidance for growth. We don't manage the growth. We manage the profitability and growth should be an output of running a great business. With cards, we put about 60,000 cards into market. We put it across a number of test cells by channel, by risk grade with some tests of the product proposition, And we have 2 different kinds of cards, kind of a smaller card and a smaller line and a larger line. We're going to run those for 6 months and see what payment patterns are, how credit performs. Early signals are our acquisition rates are higher. So our response rates to our marketing are higher than we had anticipated even in a super crowded credit card market, fourth quarter 2021. Our line usage is in line or a little bit better, which is positive. But we're going to look at credit results second half of the year is when we think we will grow the card once we -- assuming the models test out for credit. We publicly at our earnings call earlier in the month said that cards would be $100 billion to $150 billion of that of capital generation. 2015. And we've said a minimum of $1.5 billion of capital generation. So call it in the 10% range. Just to dimension it, we've also said cards will be as or more profitable than our current loans. So if you look at our return on receivables of about 6%, that gives you kind of a $2 billion range of card. We feel very confident that's kind of a base case. If I were sitting here today, I'd say we have a much better chance of exceeding that rather than undershooting it, but we try to be conservative in the guidance and make sure we hit those. Other products are innovation around our current product. So we've been innovating around pricing. So we've been taking some higher credit quality customers, lowering the price some, lower expenses because they're less likely to go into any sort of default, so we don't have to have people calling them. Theoretically, it would lower the cost of capital and they have lower losses. And so it's just been continuing to innovate around price. We've also done some innovation around size. And so we've introduced a $2,500, we call it a smaller dollar loan. I think the industry thinks that small dollar loans as $300. This is a smaller dollar loan. Losses could be a little higher. We can take a little more risk, but the payment is lower, so people can afford it. And we also think it will help us. It will be a feeder product that will help us grow. The other thing we're betting on is we have some $500, $600, $700 credit limits on some of the lower-end cards, we think they will grow into loans. And so look, if you look at all the industry research, it says the installment loan market will grow 5% to 6%. We're the biggest installment loan player in the country right now. So our estimates are in that range, we'll probably grow and we should be able to keep our own. We should beat that. But cards and these other innovative products, I think, will be important. The last thing that we've talked about, you can debate if it's a product or a channel, but we've also moved in and are doing some point-of-sale partnerships. So when someone is getting their house remodeled, when someone is buying a snowmobile or an ATV, they can link into our system, we can get on the phone with them. We can work out an installment loan with them to pay for that. And so we think that's going to be a growth channel, too. So...

Just a quick follow-up on the credit card piece. I made a note to ask you in 6 months on the credit side, but you said that you're getting better uptake. Is that a OneMain brand thing? I mean because it is -- I mean you mentioned it is a crowded market. Any thoughts about what you'd attribute that to?

Look, I think we've created a very differentiated product. I mean we spend a lot of time with our customers and potential customers about what other cards are out there, what do they want. And our strategy as a company, our overall vision is we want to be there when people have a shortfall between their income and their savings and their expenses. So it's a cash need. But we also are going to work with them to help our customers move to a better financial position. And so the credit card is built on the concept of reciprocity. So whether it's our lower line card that has an annual fee or our bigger lines, and our bigger lines are like 2,000 to $3,000. It's not huge lines for current customers that actual -- doesn't have an annual fee, both of them have rewards points. But the key to it is if you pay 6 months on time, 6 on time payments, will either decrease your price or increase your line. We've got a lot of room in our models to do that for multiple years for people. And so the idea of we will share economics with you as you grow with us is really resonating in the market. If after multiple years, we kind of tap that out from a credit perspective, we'll be able to give people discounts on loans. We own Trim, we can give discount bill negotiation, those kinds of things. But we will always do something for you. I think that's one. Two is our brand resonates. We've -- with non-prime customers. And then three, I think we're a challenger, right? And so we're kind of a new card in the market, which helps. But response rates have been great even in, as you said, a crowded market.

Yes. So One of the areas that's gotten a lot more focus from investors lately has been expenses and operating efficiency. You've always talked about your business in terms of like a core expense growth and investments that you're making over -- kind of over and above what the core business is growing. Can you talk a little bit about that, where the money you're spending? And how should we kind of on the outside judge the effectiveness of that?

So let me start with the core expense. We gave a little bit of a view -- a little deeper view in our expenses than we've ever done in the fourth quarter, and some of this was to help -- certainly help investors understand where we are placing our investment and our capital. If you go back and look at 2019 and then you look at where our expectations are for core expenses this year in 2022, it would be roughly similar. The numbers, as you look at them, will be very similar, despite growing the balance sheet by $2 billion, $3 billion over that period of time. And so within our core expenses, we continue to drive leverage. We're very disciplined on expenses. Doug talked a little bit about how we have reduced the branch network. A lot of that has been driven through technology enhancements and enabling our branches to be more effective, which then allows us to consolidate those branches and get more flexible. When it comes to the expenses, we've been investing over the last few years in our core technology. We've been investing in digital. We generated the ability to close loans digitally. That work was started back in 2019 and really got deployed in 2020. We've been investing in cyber and just maturity of our operations as well as enhancements to customer experience. And so a lot of this now has enabled us to be able to begin investing in our new products and channels, which would have been difficult without that initial investment in the infrastructure of the business. And so now we're investing in, obviously, the credit card and some of these new distribution channels. That investment, roughly speaking, we said it would be $50 million higher this year. If you break that down a bit, about 60% is going to go into new products and channels. That includes a credit card, which is roughly half of that 60% and then also the relationships we have with Dealertrack and currency, Doug touched on this a little bit, where we're connecting into these other organizations where they're putting together consumers, sellers of product and us as a financing partner. We have to have people who are generating those relationships. We service those assets outside of our branches. So it gives us a little bit of flexible distribution option. The other 40% is really continued investment in our tech stack, data science and all the things we need to continue to do to remain competitive and provide great customer experience.

Yes. Next topic I wanted to talk about is the idea of credit normalization. The -- this has been something investors have been focused on for the last 4 months or so, I would say. And talk a little bit about, number one, whether you're seeing anything that's worsening in your portfolio faster than you might have expected? what are you seeing? And if that were to happen, like how do you take steps to kind of mitigate the impact to the P&L and balance sheet?

Yes. Look, let me make a couple of points about kind of how we manage credit. One is we estimate losses at a customer level when we underwrite a loan. And we operate in 44 states, and we operate under state licenses. So some places, we charge higher amounts than others, so we can take more losses. As a result, we actually manage to returns. We manage to the bottom line, a little bit like we talked about, capital generation. And so we don't manage the company to losses. Second is we put guidance out that this year, we think 5.6% to 6%, which is below our 6% to 7% overall operating framework as a company. So we feel pretty good about that. Look, I think it's a tricky environment right now. When we think about normalization and I think investors should think about it, they shouldn't pinpoint a certain year, right? They should think look at our losses from 2015 to 2019. And as long as we're in that range and as long -- the main thing to look at is our 6% return on receivables. That's how we're going to manage the business. In my view, there's been a lot about AI, underwriting, et cetera. I mean my view of the world is the pure building of the machine of underwriting, like just the algorithms in the box that it goes into has gotten commoditized over time. Increased computing power off the shelf, open-source software that allows you to use up-to-date machine learning without having people invent it. And so any company that's any good has great data scientists and has built that modeling team. And I think we've got world-class, we're all machine learning, AI, and we back test with our old regression models. And we've got more proprietary data than almost anybody else because we've been doing non-prime underwriting for a long time. But the secret of actually underwriting well is being all over the data in micro cells and the minute you see something, you make adjustments on the fly. And so we're doing this continually. In 2020, March, before the government shut down all the airlines from Europe and everyone panicked, 1st week of March, we pulled our 2020 -- our 2008, 2009 playbook and just cut our underwriting by 20%. We slowly by last spring, it opened the box back up, different cells, different geographies, different industries. But generally, we were opened up. We've actually, in the last couple of months, been doing some micro trimming. And so just to give you an example, more customers were funding their loan with ACH directly into neobanks. And we actually found some payment behavior, if you fund it in a neobank versus a traditional bank that there was different payment patterns. And so we actually tightened up around their increased verification. We also will treat you very different. We don't do a lot of thin file underwriting, and that's defined in our models by less than 3 credit lines. You get a very different score than if you have more than 3 credit lines. We actually found if the threshold that took you from 2 to 3 was a student loan just in the last couple of months, the payment behavior wasn't as good. And so we took that out and treated it as thin files. And so my view is we feel good about all the business we're underwriting today, 6% return on receivables. In 2019, that was in the high 5s. So we're actually more profitable today than we were. So we've got cushion to move above that. But we're going to be like super aggressive at a micro level, finding things, getting on top of it, making changes to our box. And it's a big experiment for all of us, $6 trillion of federal stimulus, most of it going into pockets of consumers, rising interest rates, it's an environment where you've got to be really good and on top of it. And we have a model that we can adjust very quickly.

Perfect. You talked a little bit about the regulatory environment. You mentioned that you're actually opening up some branches in California. California has kind of been a state that's cracked down on high-cost lenders. So is that like this -- I mean, are there opportunities that are created by some of the things that are going on in the current regulatory...

Yes. Look, California 2 years ago, capped -- they set an interest rate cap of 36%. We actually were super supportive and worked with the state legislator to put that on because we voluntarily cap our rates there. And high-rate lenders, that's not viewed -- that's viewed as responsible lending for non-prime credit. High rate lenders are lending out at 100%, 200%. I think it created some opportunity for us. But generally, our customers are not going to pay day lenders, right? They're kind of middle American and working-class Americans, they're paycheck to paycheck, they might use it some, but not that. Look, I think the regulatory environment, we come out of bank routes. We come out of Citigroup and then American General came out of AIG. We've got a big compliance department. We have constructive relationships with all of our regulators. We are always making sure that we are super transparent with clients, putting them in a loan that they can repay and that's what we focus on. But -- the regulatory environment is going to change. We've been pretty successful through many different stripes of regulatory climates. Our mission is to improve the financial well-being of hard-working Americans. And we've doubled down on this vision to be there when they need money, but also help them move to a better place. And I think as long as we stay true to that, we should be in good shape.

We've talked already a couple of times about the very strong level of capital generation. On the flip side of that, you've got your growth plan. But you've also had both -- you pay a high current dividend. In the past, you were paying special dividends. You've talked about now allocating more of that towards stock buyback. Can you just give us a sense of your thought process as to how we should think about that? And how to think about the total amount of capital and the form of capital distribution?

Yes. So Moshe, you've gotten to know us, and I don't put like numbers out in the public lightly, right? So we said that we're very confident that we'll generate approximately $4 billion of capital over the next 3 years because we wanted people to understand kind of just the capital generation power of this business. Our -- we've evolved our strategy over time. From 2015 through 2018, we delevered because we -- our leverage was too high. And we got to a place we're very comfortable with rating agencies. We worked with them. And I think we're in a very responsible place. We started then with capital return. We started with a $1 regular dividend, and we ended up doing special dividends. And the debate in the Board was -- we didn't want to do buybacks then because we had a large private equity shareholder who had 40% of the shares. We didn't have a lot of liquidity. And we wanted to attract more value and income investors, and we didn't want to take liquidity out of the market. That's evolved over time. And so we then subsequently increased our regular dividend. It's now $3.80 a share. At current share prices, it's about a 7% yield. We have done a lot of downturn planning, like '08/'09, worse than '08, '09, we think we still have plenty of cushion to pay the dividend because we don't want to cut our regular dividend. And we wanted something -- we moved away from specials because we wanted something that people could just rely on put into their models and assume. Over the last year, the large private equity firm sold out their stake. And so -- and our liquidity in our stock went from about 700,000 shares traded per day to 1.4 million. And so we have a lot more liquidity, and we've moved into buybacks. We've announced a $1 billion 3-year buyback program. We've said we'll spend about 1/3 this year. And so our framework is, first and foremost, we have 6% return on receivable yielding assets. That translates into over 30% return on tangible common equity. First thing we're going to do is invest in our business to make sure we generate a lot of receivables, serve more customers. And long term, we're very successful. The rest we plan to return to shareholders. Right now, this year, if you do the math, $3.80 dividend, 1/3 of $1 billion buyback, that's about 70% capital return. The way that shareholders should think about this is we're growing -- we're investing and growing our balance sheet. As we grow our balance sheet, we have a very profitable business that returned 6% return on receivables. That means we're growing our bottom line and generating more capital. That means we're going to continue to have capital to reinvest for the health of the business in the long term, we're going to be able to have a good robust dividend, and we'll be able to increase that every year. And we'll be doing buybacks, which increases the per share metrics, which accrues to the benefit. We think that formula grow the balance sheet, grow the bottom line. The bottom line allows you to reinvest in the business and have a healthy return to shareholders is a really good value proposition for shareholders.

Great. We've got a couple of minutes left. Micah, one of the topics you actually mentioned on the earnings call was potentially opportunities on the funding side. Can you talk just a little bit about how you see that and the impact and how you're prepared for an environment where interest rates are going up?

Yes, sure. Thanks for the question. We've been building this balance sheet for good 5 to 6 years now. We started in early 2016 with a very deliberate strategy to increase our liquidity runway, reduce our reliance on secured debt, move a little bit more towards the longer tenor unsecured debt side of things and extend our maturities, term maturities out. We've been really actively over the last year managing some upcoming maturities we have. We've taken actions and took advantage of a very, very strong market to issue about $3 billion of debt. We took out about the same on the debt side of about $3 billion, and we did so issuing it roughly 2.5% versus what was coming off the books at 5%. And so we've put ourselves in a very, very strong position to be flexible and adaptable and issue when we feel comfortable doing so. I'll give you a couple of metrics just to put that into perspective. If you were to go back into 2016 time frame, roughly mid-single digits of our debt that was maturing in excess of 5 years. And today, that's more in the 40% range. And so we've really extended those maturities to give ourselves flexibility. In terms of the current rate environment, we did talk on the earnings call, we said we expected a tailwind from our interest expense, and we do feel very, very comfortable with that even in a rising rate environment. Part of the reason I'm comfortable is because we have 95% of our debt that we will need in 2022 already on our books at fixed rates. When you bring that out another year to 2023, that's roughly 70%. So that terming out of the balance sheet and extending maturities really insulates us. We don't have another unsecured maturity or bullet maturity until early 2023. So it gives us a lot of flexibility to managed through markets. We also have shifted from having 60% of our debt in secured, which encumbers receivables back in 2016, now it's closer to 45, right. So even if we wanted to, we could shift a little bit more towards the cheaper secured funding mix. So just a lot of flexibility is what I would leave you with. And -- it's taken a lot of years. You got to do these things when times are good, and we're prepared for the future.

So Great. And with that, we actually have reached the end of our time. Please join me in thanking Doug and Micah for their time today. Thanks so much.

Thanks, Moshe.

Thank you, Moshe.