Pacific Basin Shipping Limited (2343.HK) Q3 FY2025 Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Welcome to today's Pacific Basin 2025 Third Quarter Trading Update Conference Call. I'm pleased to present the Chief Executive Officer, Mr. Martin Fruergaard; and Chief Financial Officer, Mr. Jimmy Ng. [Operator Instructions] Mr. Fruergaard, please begin.

Thank you. Yes, and welcome, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for attending Pacific Basin's Third Quarter Trading Update Call. My name is Martin Fruergaard, CEO of Pacific Basin, and I'm joined by our CFO, Jimmy Ng. At this time, we are with you from our office in Singapore. Assuming you have already gone through the presentation, we will highlight key points discussed in it before we proceed to Q&A. I'll first hand over to Jimmy for a quick overview of the third quarter performance and market review.

Thank you, Martin. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I will share with you some observations on the market and a snapshot of our business performance for the third quarter. Please turn to Slide 3. In the third quarter of 2025, Handysize and Supramax market freight rates showed good upward momentum post Chinese New Year, especially sharply in the Supramax segment. Market spot rates for Handysize and Supramax vessels averaged about $11,600 and $14,300 net per day, respectively, representing a decrease of 1% and an increase of 4% compared to the same period in 2024. The Baltic average Handysize FFA for the remainder of 2025 is $13,090 net per day, and the average Supramax FFA rate is $14,140 net per day. Please turn to Slide 4. In the first 9 months of the year, global minor bulk loadings rose 4% compared to the same period last year, mainly driven by bauxite, fertilizers, minor ores and concentrates. Chinese steel exports were up 10% year-to-date as demand from emerging markets remained resilient. Bauxite loadings from Guinea into China continued to be strong. If we exclude bauxite loadings, year-on-year growth of minor bulk would be around 3%. Grain loadings on the other hand decreased 9% year-on-year. Grain imports to China dropped by 15% on the back of China's record high domestic harvest. China has switched soybean sourcing from U.S. towards Brazil, at the same time, reducing corn purchases. Even so, U.S. grain exports were up 12% year-on-year as there were buyers in the Middle East, North Africa, Southeast Asia and also Latin America. Next, if we look at coal. Coal loadings reduced 6% year-on-year due to weaker demand from China, South Korea, Taiwan and India. China seaborne coal imports fell by 15% because of higher stock levels, migration to renewables as well as overland trade from Mongolia. The drop in imports to North Asia and India was partially offset by increase in coal imports into other emerging Asian countries such as Bangladesh, Vietnam and Malaysia. Finally, on the right most column, iron ore loadings also dropped 3% year-on-year with bad weather impacting Australia imports in the first quarter as well as a reduction in the exports from India. Although Australia has been trying to catch up with its targets in exports, Australian exports were still down 3% year-on-year. India also saw exports dropping by 27% in the third quarter. Please turn to Slide 5. Our core business generated average daily TCE earnings of $11,680 for Handysize and $13,410 for Supramax in the third quarter, representing a year-on-year decrease of 15% for Handysize and an increase of 10% for Supramax. When comparing to the market, our average daily TCE earnings outperformed the BHSI Handysize Index by $90 per day in the period, but we underperformed the BSI Supramax Index by $900 per day. This was mainly because of the strong uptick in market rates in the third quarter, especially in the Supramax sector. We typically underperform in fast rising freight markets due to the time lag between spot market fixtures and voyage execution. However, when we compare our year-to-year performance with the market, of which our average Handysize and Supramax TCE earnings have outperformed by $1,540 and $1,960 per day, respectively. For the fourth quarter of 2025, we have currently covered 72% and 87% of our committed vessel days for our Handysize and Supramax core fleet at $12,380 and $14,060 per day, respectively. In addition to our core business, our operating activity generated a daily average margin of $750 per day, over 6,830 operating days in the third quarter. Our operating activity complements our core business by matching our customers' spot cargoes with short-term chartered vessels, making a margin and contributing positively to our results throughout the cycling. I will now hand you back to Martin for market update and strategy.

Thank you. Please turn to Slide 7. Looking at Clarksons' latest forecast for 2025 and 2026, forecasted coal and iron ore volume growth continue to be weak. On the other hand, minor bulk and grains are expected to see healthy growth going forward with especially bauxite, alumina, manganese ore and scrap steel growth anticipated to remain robust. As Jimmy said, the decrease in coal volumes are mainly due to China, the world's biggest coal consumer, already has stockpiled for energy security and is expected to source more coal overland from Mongolia. Soybean volumes are expected to be strong with Brazil projected to achieve a record crop in 2025, while China continuing to reduce its reliance on imports. Overall, in the dry bulk segment that we are focused on, trade volumes are expected to remain resilient. Please turn to Slide 8. According to Clarksons Research, the combined global fleet of Handysize and Supramax vessels is estimated to grow 4.3% in 2025 and 3.9% in 2026. Newbuilding vessel deliveries account for 4.8% and 4.4% in the growth forecast, while scrapping is estimated to remain low with 0.4% and 0.5% for 2025 and 2026, respectively. The order book stands at 10.3% of the existing fleet, but newbuilding ordering dropped by a significant 76% year-on-year, given the concerns arising from the latest decarbonization rules and the ongoing uncertainties in respect to various port fees schemes. Meanwhile, the global fleet of Handysize and Supramax continues to age with nearly 40% of the ships being 20 years or older. Minor bulk fleet supply passed peak growth in 2025, and with supply growth apparently manageable going forward, we remain positive about the minor bulk supply and demand outlook in the longer term. Please turn to Slide 10. Vessel values have remained high since 2021, and we continue to maintain discipline in managing our fleet renewal. Our core fleet currently consists of 120 owned and long-term chartered vessels. During the quarter, we sold 1 Supramax vessel and exercised the purchase option on 1 Handysize vessel, which was delivered from our long-term charter fleet into our own fleet. We exercised another purchase option on 1 Ultramax vessel that is yet to be delivered in the coming months. And we have taken -- we have also taken delivery of 2 long-term chartered Ultramax newbuildings of 64,000 deadweight. Looking ahead, we maintain fixed price purchase options on 13 long-term chartered vessels. And in addition, we will take delivery of 1 Ultramax and 1 Handysize long-term charter newbuilding during first half of 2026. Our 4 low-emission dual-fuel methanol Ultramax newbuildings from Japan will be delivered 2028 onwards. Our focus is to strategically renew and grow our fleet and continue to expand our growth optionality. Please turn to Slide 11. In preparation for the implementation of new port tariffs, we have taken all required proactive steps within our control to protect our business and position Pacific Basin to continue serving our global customers freely and competitively across all safe ports and countries, including China and the United States. This includes expanding our Singapore company structure, which holds our Singapore-owned and flagged vessels. We have already transferred several vessels on an initial plan to transfer about half of our own fleet to Singapore ownership and flag. In addition, responsibility for the company's overall and ultimate strategic leadership and commercial decision-making along with responsibility for technical management of our Singapore owned fleet are located in Singapore. And our Board composition has changed as announced 13th of October for the purpose of compliance with the regulations. Pacific Basin is the independent, publicly listed company with approximately 99% publicly traded shares with no controlling shareholder. As such, the company shares are traded freely every day and are broadly held by investors across the world. Based on public beneficial ownership reports filed with the stock exchange as of October 15, 2025, Pacific Basin does not believe that 25% or more of its equity interest is held directly or indirectly by either U.S. or Chinese entities or persons. We do believe the special port fees under both the U.S. and Chinese schemes are not applicable to us. In an abundance of caution, we continue to work with our advisers to analyze the rules and their revisions, while also engaging with authorities to clarify and mitigate any applicability or impact they may have on our company, our vessels and our operations. For further details, please refer to the third quarter trading update as published to the stock exchange website. Please turn to Slide 12. Our commitment to returning value to shareholders remains intact. With respect to our share buyback program, we have so far used approximately $26 million out of the announced $40 million to buy back and cancel about $109 million of PB, or Pacific Basin, shares. As about 65% of the targeted share buyback program completed, and it is our intention to execute the remainder of the program within 2025. Please turn to Slide 13. The dry bulk market is firm, and while seasonality as well as volatility and uncertainty due to shipping tariffs actions are to be expected, near-term market conditions are expected to benefit from steady minor bulk demand growth and likely increased supply disruption, which would support tighter freight rate -- freight market conditions going forward. Supply fundamentals are also favorable. And overall, the age profile of the global minor bulk fleet, combined with limited newbuilding orders, driven by industry uncertainties suggest a potential structurally undersupply in minor bulk shipping in the future. We are prepared for continuing general macroeconomic and industry uncertainty and volatility, remaining vigilant and nimble to safely navigate the challenges that arise and continue to capture opportunities along the way. Our financial strength, low cash breakeven level, agile business model, enhanced growth optionality and the experience of our global team, position us very well for the changing market conditions. We thank our customers, our shareholders and advisers for their ongoing loyal support to Pacific Basin. And I also like to thank our skilled team of colleagues all over the world for their dedicated efforts and hard work dealing with multiple complex external challenges during the year. That concludes our 2025 third quarter trading update presentation. I will now hand over the call to our operators -- operator for Q&A. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] Our first question is from Parash Jain.

Congratulations on a good set of data. I would appreciate if you can talk a bit more on the congestion and the disruption related to the port retaliatory tariff. And help us clarify again, is the headquarter being in Hong Kong does not qualify to be a Chinese corporate? And what measures you have done with respect to fleet and flag to Singapore? And hypothetically, if that has to be attracted, if you can share your exposure to the U.S. market as we speak?

I didn't get the first question...

More with respect to congestion, where are we -- which pockets where we are seeing congestion, and particularly because of this retaliatory port tariffs, how your peers who are affected by this are coping? And is that creating a congestion?

I don't know if it's creating congestion. I think what we've seen so far and especially here in the third quarter is, of course, that everybody has probably stepped back a little bit from decoding the U.S. sort of trying to figure out exactly what will happen. So when you look at the market, the market has actually been -- since the summer has actually just improved quite a lot actually, and that's very positive. It's been a little bit of a split market. So Atlantic has actually been the main driver of it, but also, of course, the Pacific has been good, but there's a big difference. Atlantic has been higher than the Pacific. And we think that is partly due to the uncertainty about the U.S., which have created people sort of trading there -- or changing their trading routes, which, of course, again, creates some volatility in the market. In respect to our headquarter, maybe we say it in a little bit of a funny way, we are saying that our strategic leadership and also ultimate commercial management or decision-making that is now in Singapore, and that's the definition of your main office or your headquarter. So that has also changed.

Fair enough. That's fair.

And in respect to the last part about -- was that about the exposure to the U.S., so we -- what we saw in October is only a few days ago, but of course, U.S. has always been about 10% a few days ago. But of course, U.S. has always been about 10% of our business -- in the last 4, 5, 6 months, and we, as so many others, have also scaled down a little bit on our U.S. trading, but have been focusing mainly on servicing our long established customers in the area and waiting a little bit to see how the rules will be implemented.

And Martin, maybe I'll take an opportunity to ask 1 follow-up question. Given the IMO meeting is ongoing in London, what is your expectation? And if it goes through as per plan, what would it do due to the supply dynamics come 2027 for the sector? Presumably, it will be quite beneficial, but I'd like to hear your thoughts.

First of all, I think you're predicting what's going to happen at the IMO meeting, that is probably a little bit too much for me to do. That would actually, I hope is...

No, only 2 outcome, right? Yes or no. So it is hypothetically.

Yes. I think, Parash, maybe there's is -- maybe 3, maybe things are just being postponed. That is not the first time that is happening. But I think our vision, our hope is, of course, we will be proud if shipping could be the first mover in respect to have the regulation of decarbonization. So that I think will -- that's our hope that, that is, of course -- that, that the rules are being rectified. I think that will be a good thing. And of course, it will be supported to the newbuildings that we have in Japan and the things we have been doing the last couple of years. And of course, it would also start supporting a little bit the green fuels, and also, of course, supporting that we have to get different ships into our fleet over time. So I think if they were rectified, so it will be good for the climate, it will be good for our business, and of course, also good newbuildings.

The next question is from Qianlei Fan.

I think I'll ask a follow-up question following Parash's question. I think his first question was about the potential disruptions from China's port tariffs towards U.S.-linked vessels. We heard from like some media reports that there are some vessels already on the sea. But after China announced the new regulation or new port fees, actually, those vessels are now waiting outside Chinese ports to clarify whether they need to pay for the port fee or they want to do some like unloading in nearby countries and then transship cargo to China. Have you seen any of these kind of things happening in the market? Do you think that could lead to some disruptions to the overall like trade flow and vessel, like effective supply? So this is the first question. The second question is about the U.S. holding. I think on Bloomberg, they have categorized like your share stakes by like stakeholders' nationality. I think that data shows you have like more than 50% of shares held by U.S. investors. So just want to double confirm when you said your U.S. holding is below 25%, did you take into consideration of those like secondary market investors who might be U.S. investors? And also want to confirm, I mean, even if there are like more than 25% of U.S. investors, I think you can get exemption from China as long as you use like Chinese-built vessels to ship cargo to China. Is that right?

Yes. So first question in respect to disruption, and of course, that China implemented similar rules as the U.S., so I think we've been so busy following up on our own thing and making sure we are ready for that. So I think there's a lot of rumors going on at the moment, but I have not followed up on, and I do not know about transshipment and these things. But there's no doubt, of course, that all these things has created some concerns. And normally, in our business, we all hold back a little bit, and I'm sure some people have stopped their ships until they understand exactly how the rules are to be understood. So of course, this creates disruption and inefficiencies, and that is, of course, normally very good for our market. So I think it will have a positive impact on the market, depending a little bit on the overall outcome of all these things. And yes, the last question you asked, it's also correct that the Chinese built ships seems to be able to call China without any tariff. I think that has been confirmed. In respect to the U.S. holding, we've seen different medias and others quoting shareholding in Pacific Basin. And I think it's important for us to say that our shares are hold by custodians and funds and other investment vehicles. And I don't think -- we do not have access to know who the ultimate owners are of our shares in that -- and I don't think anybody else has that. And that is the case that we have presented, and that's also what we see others in similar situation in the market is saying. So I don't think it's possible for anybody to predict or say what our shareholding is on that side. We ourselves have looked at it. And, of course, if there's anybody who has shareholding above 5%, they would have to -- that I think it's called public beneficial ownership, they have to report to the stock exchange, the ownership side of it. And we looked at all these things and we have concluded that as we see, we do not believe we have anybody above 25%, neither Chinese or U.S.

Got it. So may I follow up on the question? So do you have enough Chinese-built vessels in case that you're like viewed as a company like over 25% held by the U.S.?

Yes. We do, of course, also have Chinese. I think we have 70:30. I think we have 70% Japanese built and 30% Chinese built. But our ambition is still the way we look at it is to be able to trade freely globally to service our customers. So depending on how the rules are, whether the rules are changed or anything like that, we will, of course, be waiting for that, as we always are. But at the moment, we are trading our ships freely, both in China and the U.S.

Last question. So your China exposure is also roughly 10% -- 9%, 10%, right?

Yes. If you look at the last year's trading, the volume-wise, I think it's volume we calculated, it's 10% U.S., and similar in China.

[Operator Instructions] There are currently no questions.

There are some questions through the -- over the portal. So this question is about the Red Sea opening. So the question is, is Red Sea open now? Is Pacific Basin able to transit? And will the market drop when Red Sea is back to normal?

We are, of course, following the situation, and I think it's still fairly new. And one thing we look at as an indicator is the insurance prices. And at least until early today, I was not informed that there will be any reduction in the insurance premium to transit the Red Sea. So -- and I think it will take some time. I think everyone just wants to see that is all is in a stable situation. And I think the first indicator is when you see insurance premium coming down. I think we said all along that it has an impact, of course, on the supply part. But for minor bulk, for the smaller ships, maybe less than for the bigger ones and probably less than for other segments, like containers and others. But it's clear that if Red Sea opens up, we will create more supply in the market. But with the number of disruptors we see at the moment, I'm sure something else will happen or something else has already happened that will take that over. We're not so worried about that part of it. And we also just like to see there has actually been a number of attack on ships not so long ago. I think it will take a little bit of time before things are opening up again, but let's see.

The next question is from Qianlei Fan.

I think maybe if there are not too many people in the queue, maybe I can ask another 2 questions. So I think the spot market of Handysize and Supramax has been like much stronger than expected since third quarter to date. What's the reason? I mean, what's driving that really? And also going forward, if we look at like normal seasonality, also taking into consideration of what's driving the third quarter-to-date rally, what's the outlook for the rest of the year? And the second question is about the outperformance. So I think we have some like underperformance in Supramax in the third quarter of this year. The outperformance for Handysize remained positive, but slightly narrowed. What's our outlook for our outperformance in the fourth quarter of this year?

Yes. Good questions. Thank you for those. First of all, the market, of course, for minor bulk segments being demand has actually been positive. We see still a lot of steel out of China and a lot of activity around. Growth has not been as high as the new supply. And I think early in the year, we were a little bit nervous about that part of it. But what we've seen during the year on top of actually some positive demand growth, even though it hasn't been as high as the supply -- new supply, what we've seen is all these disruptors. They just keep coming and impacting the market. And I think that is a part of it. So I think the conclusion is that this continues, then if you have 1% growth in demand, you definitely need more than 1% growth in supply to cover that. And I think that's probably a trend we will see going forward. I think outlook-wise, we are -- first of all, I think we are probably getting a little bit more optimistic about the world economy. Looks -- things look maybe a little bit better than they did early in the year. On top of that, I think for the short term, and when I talk to the commercial people, the commercial team we have, they are actually quite -- they are quite optimistic about the market for the rest of the year. And of course, everybody expects there will be the normal seasonality leading after Chinese New Year when we get into the new year. Demand for some of the minor bulk segment looks fine actually. And you can say supply this year has peaked -- new supply has peaked this year, and it will be lower next year. So I think fundamentally, there's some positive things in the market. But I think we still need these disruptors or these multiple disruptors in the market. But so far, in the last couple of years, we have had plenty of those, and it's hard to see a world where they will not continue at the moment. In respect to our performance, I think as Jimmy said earlier, quite normal that in a market that goes up, we will always sort of run after the market. And what you see this time, especially on the Ultras is that the market in June -- sorry, in July, actually went up about 50%. And, of course, we fix our ships forward a month or 2. So there will be a delay in that and that very naturally, especially when it increases so fast and so much, we will always, you can call it, underperform. But I think more we are running after and trailing trading the market. I usually say to my colleagues, I will defend any day to the market and to the investors if the market continues to go up that we are not performing or not outperforming a lot. But normally, when the market shifts again, then, of course, we catch up with the market, and we start outperforming again. So I think when you look at the outperforming the last 9 months or the last 12 months, it's a solid outperformance. And let's see what the market is doing. I think we will continue to do our outperformance going forward. I hope that answered the question.

Yes, yes, indeed. May I clarify, you said when there is a 1% growth in demand, there is more than 1% like need of vessels. What's the reason behind that?

I think -- well, many things. But one thing is, of course, that the speed of the ships has decreased this year compared to last year same period, the speed of the ships is down 2%. And since 2021, the speed of the ships -- the average speed of the ship is down 6%. And every year since 2021, speed has reduced every year. So I think that is one reason for, of course, you need more supply to compensate for that part. And then on top of it, you have the disruptors. And then, of course, trade, we have to start trade the ships differently, maybe more grain out of Brazil than the U.S. Gulf. People hesitant to call -- some ships can call U.S., others cannot. So the efficient supply chains, they are broken. And therefore, we probably have to save a little bit longer, and that, of course, takes supply out of the market. And that is -- if it's not the Red Sea or Panama Canal or different wars or congestion or now tariffs, there's plenty of those who take supply out of the market because of inefficiencies.

Got that. Got that. So do you think the vessel speed decrease has -- is mainly because environmental, like policy requirements or it's because of some other reasons?

Yes. I think that is definitely because of the decarbonization, the regulation, lots of -- also the disruption has also been, we have had a lot of ships in dry dock actually, more than normal. That's another thing that takes supply out. And also many ships, of course, of the rules, have equipped their ships with this power limitation devices. So reality is that, that has reduced the speed of the ships when they come out due to compliance with the regulation. So you're absolutely true -- it's actually true that, yes, that's happened because when you look at the freight rates, and actually, the oil prices are actually coming down somewhat. So the logic would, of course, be in a good market with a lower oil price, we would speed up that, that just make economic sense. But that is not happening to the extent that -- so that has to be because of the decarbonization and environmental rules.

So you mentioned more ships in the dry docks. It's also because of the regulations.

Partly regulations, but also partly, I think, because a number of ships were built at the same time back in probably 2016 or earlier, so it's just a timing thing on that part.

So you mean that's because of the overall global fleet has been aging.

Yes, no, it's actually more -- it's more because every ship has to go to dock with a certain interval. And if you have 1 year in the past where many ships were built in the same period, many ships have to go in dry dock at the same period here. So it's just a technicality.

The next question is from Parash Jain.

Sure. Now Martin, could you also remind us on your CapEx plan for this year, potentially next year? But more importantly, with the improved rates and probably shipyards opening up the capacity for '29 onward and probably container rolls over, do you see the dry bulk operators get back to the newbuild market? Or you think that even despite the improved rate, the returns are not justified to see a surge in new ordering?

Yes. So, Parash, I probably will answer the CapEx question first. So typically, in our CapEx, we will have certain dry dock expenditures. And as you know, we also will look at a number of our purchase options to see if there is potential to exercise. And in terms of our cash usage, we also will use some of our cash for share buyback. We covered in the presentation that we set out to do USD 40 million this year. We have completed $26 million. So there's a remaining $14 million that we would aim to complete in this year. So that's our basic use of cash. Now, of course, we will maintain and keep an eye on the secondhand market and also M&A opportunities, see if there are opportunities for us. But as we said in the presentation, the secondhand market currently, the way we see it is still at an elevated level. So that is something that we need to bear in mind as well. So that's on the CapEx side.

And with respect to the yards and newbuilding, secondhand prices and so on, what we see right now is, of course, that the secondhand -- not of course, but secondhand prices are actually coming up. And I think that is, of course, partly an impact on the spot market. And I think people have a little bit more positive view on the future of the market. Of course, the rates at the moment, they are getting close to be able to justify buying a secondhand ship, but I think there's still a little bit of a gap in it that we have to see how sustainable the rates are. But I think overall, people are getting a little bit more positive about the outlook. The newbuildings, if you want a newbuilding today, you probably have to say 2028, and I also hear somebody saying 2029, but probably in 2028, you can still get newbuildings in the minor bulk segment. Prices have come down somewhat. There is -- not a lot, but it has come down in the last year. China seems -- steel prices have been low in China, and that gives China a benefit compared to Japan on the steel cost. And therefore, they can probably be more competitive on the pricing. As we also said earlier, the new ordering is down quite a bit compared to last year. I think it's clear that the market -- many of the owners and players in the market has good balance sheets, and similar to us, wants to, of course, grow the business. So let's see what happens. I think we're all sitting waiting a little bit for the IMO to make up -- hopefully, deliver on the decarbonization part. That will also guide us a little bit on how to do it. And also, it is important to say that the yard capacity also because of minor -- of course, the feeder container ships and so on, which is actually the same size as our ships, many of the yards will prefer to build those ships. I think the margin is better on those kinds of ships than our ships. So there is pressure on the capacity at the yards. So I think in some ways, it's -- we sort of always say we are very disciplined in our buying and selling ships, and -- but we also, of course, like to grow. But on the other hand, we have a core fleet of 120 ships, increased high asset prices is also good for us. I think what is positive for us at the moment is, of course, also that our gap between fair market value and our share price has also closed quite a bit. So we are probably in a position where we have a nice balance sheet, we have a good share price or better share price at least. We have the LED ships coming in newbuildings, that design we know. We are waiting for IMO. And then, of course, we have to see what we do and what the share prices are doing. I hope that answered the question, Parash.

There are currently no questions.

Okay. There is one more question on the portal. May I know if the U.S. and China port fees is a positive or negative factor to the shipping rate and potential company earning impact?

I think definitely in the short term because it does create this disruption, then of course, it has -- it will have a positive impact on the market. I think everybody, including ourselves, we have also asked both in the U.S. and China for clarification on some of the regulation. We've been totally transparent with them with both the challenges we have in reading the agreements, and we've been seeking advice on different things. So there's, of course, a lot of uncertainty in the market at the moment that, that, of course, creates this disruption, and that is definitely good for the market, that's usually how it works in achieving. In the longer run, I have to say we hope that -- we are doing -- we are transforming. We are living off global trade. So, of course, we have to hope that it doesn't take overhead and has a negative impact on the global trade for sure. But in the short term, it's definitely a positive for our market.

[Operator Instructions] As there are no further questions, we will now begin closing remarks. Please go ahead, Mr. Martin Fruergaard.

Yes. Again, I'd like to thank you again for joining us today and for your continued support to Pacific Basin. If you have further questions, please contact Luna Fong of our Investor Relations department. Have a great evening, and thank you again.

This concludes our conference call. Thank you for all attending.