PB Fintech Limited (POLICYBZR.NS) Q1 FY2026 Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hello, good morning, and warm welcome to PB Fintech Limited Earnings Call for Quarter 1 financial year 2025-2026 Today, we have with us Mr. Yashish Dahiya, Chairman and Group CEO, PB Fintech; Mr. Arun Bansal, Executive Vice Chairman, PB Fintech; Mr. Sarbvir Singh, Joint Group CEO, PB Fintech; Mr. Santosh Agarwal, CEO, Paisabazaar; Mr. Mandeep Mehta, Group CFO, PB Fintech and I'm Rasleen. I request Yashish, for his introductory note.

Thank you very much, Rasleen. Good morning to all and different good afternoon or good evening from wherever you're joining. Thank you very much for joining. I just wanted to start today by, first of all, acknowledging and thanking our team not just for this quarter but for the continued years and years, very good work. And what I mean by very good work is, number one, staying focused on what is right for the consumer, putting that center of everything we do and at the same time, delivering every plan -- I know we are broadly on plan, but every plan becomes waste the moment you get punched the first time. And our team takes multiple punches every day and continues to hit plans which is never easy. But I just want to acknowledge that right up, and that goes for the entire 23,000 of us. So thank you very much. Our total insurance premium this quarter was INR 6,600 crores, up 36% year-on-year. This was led by growth in basically the core protection business, but specifically health we grew at 65%, which is the highest in the last 9 quarters. And the core online insurance premium grew 35%, with 46% from health and term, which is the protection area. Our consolidated operating revenue grew at 33% to INR 1,348 crores for the quarter, and core insurance was up 37% year-on-year. Core credit was down 22% year-on-year. Our renewal and trail revenue of the last 12-month rolling basis is at INR 725 crores, up from INR 506 crores last year, so about 43%. This we are seeing at a very consistent rate moving at about 43%. For instance, the quarterly renewal revenue is that an ARR of INR 673 crores right now, up 47%. This is only for insurance. So the insurance quarterly core revenue is at INR 673 crores, up 47% year-on-year. So what you're seeing is the insurance revenue is actually been growing at about 47% right now. I don't expect it to be at 47% forever. This will be somewhere in the 45-ish for the foreseeable future. This is a key driver of our long-term profit growth. From a rolling 12-month perspective, the delta between 4 consecutive quarters has been increasing consistently and is now INR 218 crores at an overall level. Steady growth continues for our core news insurance premium, net of savings business. This is another metric we have been highlighting for some time. If you take the savings part out, our core business has been growing at plus/minus of 40% now for 9 quarters, and we were at 42% this quarter. Our savings business has grown at more than 100% at times and is currently at about minus 5%. We'll continue to support to improve our customer onboarding and claim support services. And the insurance CSAT is consistently above 90%. Our credit revenue for the quarter is INR 102 crores and disbursed at INR 2,095 crores for the core online business. We'll continue to strengthen our leadership in new initiatives with a revenue growth of about 50% year-on-year with adjusted EBITDA margins moving from minus 12% to minus 6% with a 5% contribution now. PB Partners, our agent aggregation platform continues to lead the market with 350,000 advisers. We have moved the business increasingly towards smaller and higher quality advisers, and the growth is much higher in that segment. We are present now in 19,000 PIN codes, covering 99% of the PIN codes in India. Our UAE business, along with our health business, is another star outperformer in the group. They were -- they've been growing at 68% year-on-year. And they have now been profitable for the last 2 quarters. So that's starting to become quite consistent. Our consolidated PAT for PB Fintech grew from INR 19 crores, excluding exceptional items last year to INR 85 crores. So basically, from 2% to 6% margin. To summarize our performance since the listing, our revenue has grown at a CAGR of 54% from INR 238 crores in Q1 FY '22 to INR 1,348 crores in Q1 FY '26. And our PAT margin has grown from minus 47% in that quarter in Q1 FY '22 to 6% in Q1 FY '26. Of course, we have seasonality. So Q1 is usually our weakest quarter, but that's just the way the industry is. I'd be very happy to take questions now. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Yashish. We'll take a minute for questions to queue up. [Operator Instructions] We take the first question from Sachin Salgaonkar.

I have three questions. First question, I want to understand, again, how is management thinking in terms of balancing between growth and profitability. Clearly, as Yashish indicated for last 7 quarters, we have seen 40% plus growth in terms of core business. But when I look on a Y-o-Y basis, your core online EBITDA margin is largely flattish at 14%. So should we sort of look at this business that it's matured from a margin perspective, and management is focusing in terms of growing at 30- or 40-odd percent plus going ahead? Or should we also continue to see a margin improvement plus the growth out here? So that's question one. Let me pause here and pass it on to you guys.

Cool, we would have taken all 30 answered. Q1 is actually fairly straightforward. Our focus for the time being is entirely on growth. Yes, we will deliver profits, but there will be an outcome rather than -- so we are clearly not optimizing for profits right now. There will be a point when we will perhaps optimize for profit. I hope that is as late as possible because we want to -- don't get me wrong here, guys, because this is not meant to be a statement of any sort. We're not trying to -- we are a profitable company. We will keep becoming more profitable, but that will be a natural course for a while. Of course, if we wished we could have a lot more profit right now. But our bias is entirely towards growth. So whenever there's a call we have to make on can we make this investment, and maybe there's a doubt that it will help us in terms of growth or not, we will more often than not meet that investment and air on the side of having taken on extra cost and not being able to deliver the growth rather than having the growth opportunity and not being able to deliver because we did not take on a particular cost. So that's the state we are in. Now just to -- Sachin, specifically get into whether that's a sign of us maturing or the sign of us being young, I think that's a sign of us being young. You could take it whichever way because I think there's an easy part, which is to deliver the higher profits, which we can do at any stage, but it's clearly on the stage to do that. It's like a 14-year-old kid. Do I want the highest performance from him today, or do I want them to train and have a lot of protein so that he grows into the future and becomes a far stronger adult? I think we are in the stage where we are still growing into becoming a far stronger adult in the future. And that is why any of you noticed, when we talk about 2030, we start talking about a INR 1 lakh crore premium. We're not talking about profitability because for us, that is the not coal goal that we want to achieve growth, and we want to achieve a certain scale. Profits will automatically come.

Got it. Very clear, Yashish. So that was question one. question to Santosh. I wanted to understand if there is any change in-strategy at Paisabazaar since you've taken over, Clearly, market, especially on credit lending on unsecured continues to remain soft. And I know you guys were exploring and focusing a bit more unsecured. So it would be great to understand from your broad changes in-strategy since you've taken over Paisabazaar.

See, I think three things. One that we are growing the secured area, and you'd see that secures actually come up well. Just overall, we are growing wireline. The other bit is, I think doing more of -- I would say this, we have a lot of existing customer base, about 53 crore customers on our platform. We want to monetize our traffic for other products as well. So you'll see us doing savings. We've already launched ones -- we've already launched fixed deposits. You will also see us mutual funds in a while. So I think that is another area that we are investing in. And third, I would say is building a lot of alternate data sources to basically sharpen our risk ability. Our ability to, I think, underwrite better and help our partners underwrite better, that is one area we're heavily investing in. So I think the sharpness and risk can be able to qualify a customer better for credit, that is, I would say, the third area that you will see us do a lot of work in. So you will see us now doing collections. You're seeing us now doing bill-payment sector. So a lot of that really builds up from a deep risk capability.

Thank you, Santosh.

And last question off late, there appears to be some increase in competitive intensity from some of the smaller players and platforms in the new initiative space. Wanted to understand, are you guys seeing any competitive intensity and any impact of that we could see -- which could be visible on the numbers?

I think you may be speaking about the POSP platform. So I'll just defer to Sarbvir on that.

I think, Sachin, I would say this has been a very competitive space all around. I don't see anything very dramatic that has changed over there. I think there's a whole bunch of people who've been competing. And I think the basis of competition has to shift. We have to focus on more granular business and work with smaller partners and add value to them. So I think that's the rate. It's no longer actually, if you ask me, honestly, it's no longer a competitive issue. It's the issue of can we add value to our agent partners and how much so that we can all have better economics.

So Sachin, I just wanted to add there more from a outside-in perspective. See, I believe every market with scale starts to become more and more real. So that market, in a way, started with any scale is equal and any scale is okay. I think slowly, the understanding is coming within the investor community as well that look granular business is better and business quality is important. And I think people think to assess that better. And for us, quite genuinely, and me and Sarbvir is discussing this before our call as well. As the market matures towards reality we benefit because we are, in reality, we are actually quite a player that does the right things anyway. So I would say that's the kind of stated play. I think the market is becoming more and more real, and that plays to our favor.

Thank you, Sachin. We'll take the next question from Suresh Ganapathy, Macquarie.

So just one main question is now that health has done so well. And of course, term has always been doing well for you guys. What would be now your market share in these 2 products, Yashish? If I were to take retail health premiums overall in the industry, what would be PB Fintech and also on the retail term, roughly if you can state those numbers.

I'll try to, but I state something else a little before that because I've been thinking deeply about this. The year Policybazaar started, the total health and term business in the country was about -- for retail was about INR 200 crores. So if we thought market share at that time, and actually, there was an investor at that time, Suresh. I would name them. But they said, listen, the total market is INR 200 crores. If you get the 30% of this market, that INR 60 crore opportunity, should we invest INR 20 crores behind a business like that and they left it out. I did not know what the health and term market was. And so they did invest and they kind of reap the benefit. I think we are not in the market share gain. And I think that's a very important statement to make. We are in the market creation game. Since you asked a question, the very specific answer would be, I think in health, we would be the retail business. We would be somewhere about maybe somewhere about 15%-ish, 15%-ish or so. And in turn, we would probably be 1/4 of the business in the country. But quite genuinely, we don't think in those terms. We just think in terms of our own scale, and if anything is coming. And I'll tell you how we think about it. We think, in India, there is this 300 million, 400 million people who earn sub of about INR 1 lakh to the family, and they can't afford the current health care solution because everything is getting hard. Claims is getting hard. Prices are getting hard. Everything is tough for them. And we hope we can play a very meaningful role in enabling health insurance for them with our partners and so doing it make health insurance a much larger industry that it potentially can be in the next 4, 5 years. And should we be a participant in that, we should have a significant part of that growth. But that is really how we think. I think currently, it is a little stuck as an industry. But yes, 15% at 25%. Those will be the real numbers.

And in savings, you would be how much?

Maybe 2% or so.

2%. No, the reason why I'm asking is...

About 5% of the non-LIC maybe, but about 2% overall.

Okay. Okay. 5% on non-LIC. Okay, that's clear. No. No, the reason I'm asking this is, Yashish, you guys I know these questions keep getting asked, but you guys have done a very good job about your growth being at 36%. I know you guys have also been realistic that longer term, you believe we should grow twice the -- or medium term twice the industry may be closer to 30%. The problem that I have got is that you're already 25% of the term market. And I don't think the term market is growing beyond 15% and so should be held. And you're already at such a high market share and the industry growth rate itself is curtailed, it is becoming difficult to digest that you can even grow at 30% when the overall market growth is stunted to some extent. Is that -- is my assessment right? Or how do you look at it [indiscernible]

Suresh, that is a very fair way of thinking about it. I wouldn't expect any outside person to think any differently. But that is not how we have ever thought about -- that's the point I was trying to make that when we started in 2008, the total business was only INR 200 crores. And nobody expected it to grow very rapidly. i we had thought that way. So I'll make one statement, right? There is -- I'm sure you have a market projection, let's say, over the next 10 years for both health and term. Whatever that market projection is, our belief is Policybazaar with our alone will be bigger than that market projection over the next 10 years. But now that is the gap, right? The gap is we are coming at it from there is an opportunity out there. We feel we are better placed at solving that opportunity, and the opportunity is solved, the market will actually grow much faster. And we also believe there is 2 parts of the market, right, and we believe we are a contributor to the growth of the market. So as we become bigger and bigger, the market actually does start to grow faster. So you heard, for example -- you heard one of the public players go out there and say that, look, our digital business is growing at 73%, right? So it's not like, yes, we are growing by the digital business of the entire industry is growing. And someday, this is a phase shift and that part of the business is perhaps going to grow faster because perhaps it has better disclosures, perhaps it does better cost controls at the back end. So there are things that are happening, which make it a more viable business. Only to say there's a more sustainable way of doing business and that sustainable way doesn't have a scale problem. And there's a kind of not sustainable, which does have a scale draw.

Just one last question on the savings thing. I'll just squeeze in. So you are right now 2% of the market, but it's stuck around that for quite some time, Yashish, right? And the growth has not been great here. I mean that's an enormous opportunity because 80%, 85% of the market is savings business. What's wrong here? Or what's getting stuck here as to why you're not able to do this at a faster.

So Suresh, I just answer that question once and then I'll hand over to Sarbvir. At IPO, we were 0.4%. We're at 2% now. So in 3 years, we have moved from 0.4% to 2%. But I think Sarbvir better placed at why we are at 2% and not 15% like wealth, et cetera.

Thanks, Yashish. I think the -- Suresh, it's a very difficult question to answer on our open forum. I would say that, you have to look at it from a relevant perspective. If you look at ULIPs, you look at the better quality products that are sold, I think we are -- I think our share is more meaningful. And we always believe and in line with what Yashish was explaining on health and term that in the end, the better quality products will -- and they will become a greater and greater part of the market happens, our growth will also come. So I think it's an enormous long-term opportunity. There are -- like the -- we have entered the pension area in the last 12 months. I think slowly, but surely, we are building a very robust business in that side. And you would agree that pension is a very big opportunity in the country, and it is coming. It is going to be issue for the next 10, 15, 20 years. So I think we are building such, I would say, anchor legs. We are selling very high-quality products. I would encourage you to get a slide that we have in the deck, which actually shows that some of the low-cost products that we sell on a cost basis are lower than mutual funds. So from a time when ULIP were discredited and there was a concern around cost structure, et cetera, to a point where they are now in the long run, actually better than mutual funds. So I think we are moving, it takes time. It will take time for these low-quality products to come through. And when they come through, I think we will -- all these questions about market share, et cetera, will become less relevant. So it's a game of patience how I would look at, so thanks so much.

Thank you, Suresh. We'll take the next question from Sanketh Godha, Avendus Spark.

Yes. Just again on that health point, see, we know that underlying industry is not growing. So you delivered 65% growth in the current quarter. Is it fair to tell that large part of your growth was driven because you have a higher contribution to long-term policies because -- and that materially improves the growth for the -- for you? And on that line, just wanted to understand, given you have chosen to take commission on deferred way in the long-term policies, is it fair to say that your take rates because you have chosen to take in a deferred way will be better when you recognize an up-front basis on revenue? That's my first question.

So Sanketh, on the revenue part, I will defer to it. I just wanted to answer one question, not just for you but for everybody. When we say we've grown at a particular rate, our number of transactions has actually grown at faster than that. So that lays to rest all kinds of questions like has ATS grown faster, has number of -- has -- have you done multiyear policies more than last year, all of those questions get made to rest. I will answer one last thing, we just came to my mind. It's not because 1 customer is buying 3 policies. It is simply because that can also happen. So the simple question is we are adding more customers ever before. And our number of customers added is growing at a faster rate than our premium growth. But after that, I will just -- because this is something obviously check. Sarbvir can answer the question on the commission side and the cash flow side?

So Sanketh, I think as Yashish explained, I just in say it simply, there are no games in this 65% number. This is based on number of policies going up, number of lives are going up. Our multiyear share is roughly the same as it was last year. In fact, in decimal points here and there, we get paid as per the rules on a yearly basis. That has not changed our outlook towards that business in any way, and that's how we are continuing. So I think it's -- if I were to actually answer your question, maybe the real question that you're asking as to what is driving this growth? Then I would say there are three things. One is people have, I think customers have seen the value that Policybazaar but are bringing in terms of comparison in terms of having more efficient products. They are buying those products. We are getting a better customer experience, both in the policy issuance process and at the point of claim. And that is, in turn, creating a positive word of mouth and our marketing is -- if you see our marketing is totally talking about how people are being benefited at the point of claim. So I think that goal is a virtuous circle right now. And as Yashish said right up front, I would say that our teams are doing an outstanding job. We are, we have set up regional presence. We are -- we have [indiscernible] team. We are -- so I think every part of the business is firing and I think that's why you are seeing the results. So, so far, it looks like it's a very robust performance.

So, okay. And the second question, just wanted to check on the new initiatives, contribution margin, which every quarter seems to be improving today. It is at 5.3 percentage for the quarter 1. So can you give a bit of color on this 5.3% broken down into POSP, UA and corporate where this delta improvement in the contribution margin in new initiatives coming from? Maybe if you can break this 5.3 number.

Sure, sure, sure. No, no, I'll explain. See, there is 3 aspects to it. I don't know if we want to give out all the specifics right now, but see, UAE has become profitable. And so obviously, that contributes to the margin. In fact. I think UAE and corporate kind of balance each other. So they together come very close to 0. And POSP has been improving in margins. It has been growing in scale and improving in margins. And it's just the quality of business they are doing, and they're constantly transforming towards smaller and smaller partners. So I think overall, I would say, look, if you want directionally, there's a likelihood that next year, we should be very close to numbers which have become meaningless from a profit or loss perspective, both from a new initiative perspective. But we don't want to hold ourselves to it. As I've always said, we could end up being a bit countercyclical in this because we do want market share. I don't think we will hold ourselves back for any short-term profit delivery target. We will always do what we think is best for the long-term strength of the business. So yes, that's sort of.

Yes, the reason I'm asking is this 5.3% can say, say, improve to, say, by end of [ FY '27, ] around 7, 7.5, 8 percentage or you assume this number to hold up at the current levels?

I would say next year, you should expect it to be about 0. I don't know. Were you asking from a more short-term perspective than next year or anything...

Even in long term, say, FY '30, if you really want this number, the contribution margin or EBITDA margin, how do you look at this business to play out?

Maybe a few percentage points. There isn't that much margin. And please understand, the POSP business, I've explained this, and you know this very well, Sanketh. It's merely a pass-through business. So when you have your revenue a bulk, see, it's somebody else's business, which you are providing them a tech layer for. But your revenue accounting is essentially for the entire business, right? So yes, you are getting the commission of, let's say, INR 100. But of that INR 85, INR 90 is going to somebody else. So eventually, as a percentage of revenue, only about 10, 15 or whatever, is staying with you. And in that, you have to incur all your costs. So it can't be like the core business, right? So -- but yes, it can deliver something. And I would say, let's see. We're not putting pressure on that, but I would suspect maybe something like a 5 percentage point should appear at some point. But whether it happens by on 30% or 29% or 30%, I don't know.

Okay. Okay. So basically, long term, you believe this is a 5% adjusted EBITDA margin business in that sense?

Let's see. Let's see, but yes, yes, why not.

Got it. And lastly, a few data-keeping points. If you can give a premium breakup of POSP corporate and EUA, we have, but maybe POSP corporate, if you can give. And second, in new initiatives revenue of INR 514 crores, can you break it down into insurance and credit?

Yes. Yes. So corporate is INR 430 crores. POSP is about, is almost 1,300 in you already have, and what did you want? You wanted.

It is revenue of INR 514 crores broken down into credit and insurance.

That much I don't have it. Maybe Rasleen can answer that offline, something. I don't know no.

Thank you, Sanketh. We'll take the next question from Shreya Shivani, CLSA.

Yes, just on the data keeping question, you had given us the PB partner -- sorry, PB Connect revenue last quarter of INR 55 crores. Have you shared the equivalent number for 1Q? And my second question is also, again, on the data -- on ESOP cost. So we were following a certain trajectory, the ESOP cost, which has come in at about INR 55 crores. Can you help us understand what would be the outlook for the next 2 years probably? Now my two main questions apart from this is, first is on the non-ULIP savings business, and we had indicated that we are considering certain other sectors or certain other segments where we would want to expand into. Can you elaborate anything incremental on that? And my second question is, while I appreciate the part that for growth, you would want -- you are prioritizing growth. And for that, your expenses are up in this quarter. But what I see is that your expenses outside contribution has picked up faster than the expenses within contribution. So just wanted to understand how does this pan out when you start the year? How does it pan out that if it is for growth, shouldn't have been the expenses within the contribution that should have scaled up? And just trying to understand how does the math work out.

Sure. No, thank you. So TV Connect is INR 43 crores this year. So whatever it was for 50 something, and there's a bit of seasonality in that. On the non-ULIP we had an aspiration to grow into pensions. Please appreciate pensions was almost 0 last year. It's about 15% of our savings business now and getting bigger. Of course -- I don't know Sarbvir, do want to say anything specific on that on...

Yes. I mean charge plan only ULIP [indiscernible] always So they're not much...

Now when you think about ESOP charges, see, basically, if the management performs, which I think we are all working very hard and we will, then the management must be awarded. I have zero doubt there. Now the only thing we can say, and that's what came across in our ESOP thing, is we will only get rewarded when the when over a long period of time, over a 5-year, 8-year period, the stock price also does well. Of course, we're getting rewarded in terms of our basic compensation, but our ESOP compensation is largely linked to our share price performance over the long term. So we are aligned with investors in that respect. And yes, it will over time increase and decrease, that's okay. But it will be associated with the ESOP price movement. Then we have new initiatives in new initiatives. Because they are not, they are not yet profitable. The management team's long-term incentive planning is linked to the profitability of those businesses. So the only number that matters to the management, but this is not from a short-term perspective, it's been an 8-year view. Their entire ESOP is -- or whatever you want to call it, long-term incentive plan is all relinked to those businesses becoming profitable and significantly profitable because that is when they make serious money. On expense planning, see, what you have as a contribution line is also brand out there. And sometimes in a brand 1 month, we may do something extra, 1 month, we may not do enough. But over the year, the cost will not grow in line with our revenue. It will grow at maybe about 2/3 of our revenue growth or so. And increments is something that hit every quarter. So every year, but they hit in the Q1. So when the increments happen, you can have some coming -- some impact coming from that. So that is how it is. But otherwise, if it in detail, I'm sure you think can provide that. But that is how the planning happens. Of course, before the beginning of the year, we do have a plan or obviously, we don't just have a plan. We can have a multiyear plan usually. And we give out some of those numbers to the market like we did about 4, 5 years ago, about 227 profitability. Today, we are broadly starting to talk about our 2030 premium numbers. But more than that, we don't put out in the market in terms of our short-term business plans. But of course -- and our intent is not to have our fixed costs growing at faster than our revenue, of course, not.

Got it. And sorry, probably I missed, I didn't understand. On the pensions, you mentioned that you've already started scaling up the business versus it being at 0 last year, right? That's the only product that you decided to go ahead.

There are 2 products. See, at a fundamental level. When you think about insurance, there are 4 products that matter to social security. They're actually 5, but I'll talk about all 5. First is health and pensions because you can fall ill. And if you get older, you need to cover for pensions. The second is term and child education. If people die early, then they can have a problem with their family costs. That is term insurance. And just in case something goes wrong, people haven't planned adequately for their children's education that can get affected. These 4. And then, to some extent, credit is another enabler of social security in various situations, right? These are 5 products we focus on. Now ULIP was a somewhat market-linked opportunity did have a component, but our intent was always to sell more child education and pensions. And I'll hand over to Sarbvir will explain that. There's been a beautiful transition in that over the last year. But.

Yes. I think, Shreya, the way to think about it is that product is a means to an end, right? And I think ULIP, we believe, is more efficient. And in a growing country like India, equity is a better long-term solution. So if you are trying to save money for 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, then equity is the most efficient solution. And you can look at Indian equity returns over -- I'm sure you guys know better than us. that over the last 10 years. Any rolling basis, you will find that they tend to converge around 14%, 15%. So that is the basic philosophy that we have. In that philosophy, we try to offer products for children education as Yashish just explained. We have created a pension line where we are talking about long-term savings for pension products. These are accumulation products, then they have an annuity component. You can have straight out accumulation, if you like. Then the third thing that we have focused on is protection of capital. For a lot of people, the concern that they don't want. They want the upside of the market, but they also want to protect their capital that they're investing. So we have a capital guarantee solution which is comprised of ULIP as well as a fixed return, non-par product. So I think these are broadly, I would say, the 3 big areas that we focus on. Over time, we will look at, especially as Paisabazaar gets into the savings area, we will look at forming more complete solutions for some of these areas. And I think that's the direction we are going, right. Now we have no particular interest in going down other savings insurance products at this point.

Understood. Understood. So just one follow-up, last 2 years. So in this pension product, there's a slide where you've mentioned how many partners you have in the savings and in health insurance, et cetera. So almost all of the partners are offering the pension product or it's just at an nascent stage and you're doing it with some partners. It's not 14 insurance partners. Is that a correct way to think?

Shreya, it's pretty much everyone. I think it's over 10 already, and whoever is left is slowly come on board. I thank everybody sees this opportunity and I think we are presenting an attractive way of accessing that audience.

Thank you, Shreya. We'll take the next question from Dipanjan Ghosh, Citi.

So just a few questions from my side. First, in terms of your [indiscernible]. Would it be possible to quantify the sort of sales personnel or feet-on-street really supporting that journey? And how that has scaled up over the past few quarters or years? Second, on the POSP side of the business, if you can quantify the mix between motor and nonmotor and if there is a strategy to increase the nonmotor portion as your granularity of the franchise on the PB Partners side increases? And third is on the Paisa side. You've mentioned at the start of the call that you will be introducing mutual funds out there. And when we see the broader space, it seems that most of the platform players are kind of converging towards a stage where the focus is on mass wealth advisory sort of a proposition. So would Broken be on the radar for you guys? So those are my three questions.

Actually, what Sarbvir better placed to answer at least the first 2, when we come to Paisa the hybrid and the POSP.

Yes. So we have about, I would say, almost 25% of our sales team is present in over 100 cities where we offer feet-on-street capability. About 30% our business comes from there.

Health and life business.

Health and life assisted business, I would. So I think that was on the FX side. I think the second question was on PB Partners and granularity. I think what I would just add two things. One is that the percentage of business that we're in with smaller regions, is growing, I would say, every month. And the contribution of them to the business is now almost 2/3 or more of the business comes from people who are doing very small amounts of business every month. And I think that to us is the most important metric. And as we go forward, the second metric that matters is that what are other things that these people are doing. So one of the powerful parts of the platform is for an agent to be able to do other things. So if they sell motor insurance, which mostly people do on our platform, can they sell some health insurance? Can they sell some PA cover? Can they sell some life policies, et cetera? So I think that part of the cross-sell is also continuing to grow every month. I think those are the two things I would say at this point, I mean, I don't want to get into too much detail beyond this.

Paisa also, I'll just hand over Santosh to kind of answer the question about mutual funds and about more than that.

See, on I think the mutual fund side, you see, I think the industry is growing at a 20% rate. So if you see there's still a lot of adoption coming. From a Paisa perspective, because we have a very young customer and that customer needs both out saving solutions and solutions. So having both on 1 platform makes, I would say, the platform, so our richer from an initial perspective, solution perspective. And also that when these customers come to our platform, we already know what is -- how much do they save? We have a pay on product called PB money. So we did have access to what the money lying in the bank account. And what we are doing is educating people to say that why do you want to keep money growing at 2.5%, 3%, when you can invest in equity, especially when you're young, benefits of the country that we are in and make money at least 12% to 15% CAGR is something that this industry can generate for you. It is an extremely, I would say, consumer-centric product. And we see a lot also -- see, just with bonds being launched a month back, we are already 1 crore AUM without this -- without any marketing spend. So I think that also I would say raises the confidence that there is customer who is wanting to look at good savings solutions. And I think Paisa should be that platform.

See, I think it's very, very early days. Paisa right now has a dual challenge as I see it. One is they have a current quality of operations and the current quality of business, which they are transforming very rapidly. And second is there is a future platform that's been built. I would encourage some of you to spend time on the PB money part of Paisabazaar that's. It's in early stages. But you see account aggregator platforms have really leveled the playing field in terms of what you can offer to consumers from access to their own banking data and access to their own investing data perspective. And to some extent, Paisa is leveraging that to build up a platform with its own consumer base without further marketing. But as we said, early days, I think this is going in many ways, corporate deposits, mutual funds, there could be some pension element here. There are various pieces coming along. At this point, not a major revenue driver. The big revenue driver continues to be lending. I'll just share one thing and I know businesses have financials and businesses have a soft part of it, not the soft part of or the heart or part of it. As I interact with Paisa's partners, and now I've been interacting with very few, what I hear across the Board is that your focus on quality of book has changed. And they feel far more comfortable with us as we distribute for them into the future. And that is the soft change one is seen. Also from a client perspective, what you're seeing is a lot of the back-end platforms that Policybazaar had bid, which have a lot of integrated capability in there are somewhere being leveraged by Paisabazaar now because the Paisabazaar platforms were not of the same quality in terms of overall ability. Policybazaar result is perhaps one of the world's best sales platforms. whereas Paisabazaar was quite early stage in that. So a lot of changes are happening in the background, which should make good sense. But on this part, very early days. So I wouldn't account for too much in terms of what's going to happen in mutual funds or investment products.

Just one small follow-up to Sarbvir. You mentioned 25% of your sales team is deployed in these 200-plus cities. What would this similar number would have been, let's say, last year?

It's been growing. I would say we've been in the late teens, maybe 15%, 16%, maybe I don't know.

So see, now it is not growing at a very dramatic pace anymore. I think what is happening is it's deepening a lot more. So big city, how much, what kind of people, what mechanism and so it's a little bit of a area where -- so in some cities, the call center person is taking calls and also doing physical meetings. In some cities, we would have dedicated who are only doing feet-on-street, who get appointments. So it's a mixed model. What you can see is it seems to have settled on the assisted business, about 30% of our business is -- seems to be coming from fiscal meetings. This might grow a bit. I would say, if you look 3, 4 years out, maybe it's 50%.

Thank you, Dipanjan. We'll take the next Nischint of Kotak.

Just two questions. One is, what was the receivable figure as on June? I know you don't share the entire balance sheet, but could you share this number?

Receivable figure. So Rasleen can provide that to you. But I wanted to -- I'm trying to understand the question behind the question. So look, there is going to be till September, a little bit of drag on cash flow from normal course. That is because on the one by end, the collection is on one by-end basis. This is a cycle that's playing out since last September. It will play out in September this year. The other point is, of course, our health is growing very rapidly, and that is where this 1 by end has some impact. But it's not at our scale, it's not material enough. It's just being digested in the flow is what I would say. But Rasleen could share the exact numbers.

Sure. The other one was on tax rate. If you could guide, your tax rate is, I think, closer to 7%, 8%. So what sort of tax rate we would be for this year and the next year? I could give some thoughts on that.

Yes. Mandeep, got an opportunity to speak here.

So our tax is basically primarily if you track Policybazaar, you would notice that we have accumulated losses to -- carryforward losses benefit, which is available to us right now. And whatever tax we are paying is largely on our investment income, which we drive from investing our surplus plants. So otherwise, there's no special tax rate to us, this is a nominal rate of tax, which is applicable to all businesses. It's just a combination of business profits, other income and carryforward losses.

But yes, somewhere about 8% to 10% is, I think, the right number to assume for the next 18 months or so.

And the profitability guidance that you have shared in the past that assume some say 8% to 10% tax rate.

Never have you destined as change, our guidance, our long-term guidance.

No.

That's it. If we haven't changed now, it is so close to that, why would we change it now?

No. No, I'm not saying change. I'm saying that.

It stays exactly the way it is. Nothing ever changes. And please appreciate, we don't give short-term guidance. to usually get these 4, 5 years out. And like let me give you an example, right? Right now, we're saying we want to do INR 1 lakh crores of insurance premium in 2030. What is the 95? Is that bad? Not really. If we do 105, if you do 110, is that great? It's okay. The point is we observe. We should be there. We put out a goal, which is sort of feels good to everybody. And we should be about there. Yes, it's okay. I think -- and then we feel confident that should be fine. There'll be no challenge there. Now if people in their own mind resumes only much more than that and much less than that, that's their minds working. That's not us saying anything. And please I want to point one thing is this you will face challenges. Just to give you the operational part of it. Paisabazaar the year 2024 had a INR 64 crore profit. right? They may barely hit INR 64 crores in 2027. Now when I put that out, obviously, I thought in my back pocket, I had INR 200 crores of profit from Paisabazaar. So because if it's gone from -- now maybe the quality of that wasn't as strong, and that is why we are facing a challenge. But these things will happen, and we have always factored in sufficiently when we give our long-term guidance. There's not a few hits here and there, right? And what I take heart from is not that gap on the better side. But I take hard promise, the quality of business is actually improving, and now we have control over the quality of business. So -- but I'm just trying to explain to you how -- when you're managing stuff, some things will go on, and you have to always factor for that and still achieve your plans. So your plans will always have a bit of buffer. And please appreciate, our health growth is not helping our short-term profitability. But that doesn't mean we don't do it. It will be almost race not too hard fresh health growth.

Thank you, Nischint. We will take the next question from Nidhesh Jain, Investec.

So I have two questions. First question is on trends on the health insurance renewals take rates. Because we believe that as the vintage of the portfolio increases, the economics for that portfolio for heating company deteriorates. So how do you think about the trends over longer term on the health insurance renewal take rates?

So Nidhesh, I will defer to Sarbvir for a more medium-term answer. I'll explain to you in the long term. In the long term, we are responsible for our business. Whatever we see whether we believe it, whether we don't believe it at our scale, we will never be able to pass on even 1% loss to anybody. And that is not a reason why anybody should work with us. Our objective is to make sure we have a sustainable profit, and we want to work with all our partners in making sure this stays profitable in the long run. And we will never shy away from being partners with them and taking on that responsibility and making sure what we also expect in the long run is that as we do that, we also have more and more control over our destiny in the sense if it is our customers, and we are responsible for bringing down their claims ratios, then we should also be part of that in making sure that we help in that, and we work in that direction. And I think eventually, the industry is getting more and more real. So as I said, whenever the industry gets real, that actually benefits us. I'll hand to Sarbvir because he's the one who's kind of dealing with the situation on a regular basis.

I think Nidhesh, I 100% agree with whatever Yashish said, I think, there is no -- I mean, one can -- there's always tempting to make predictions for this year, next year and all that. But the truth of the matter is that at this point, we have a favorable fresh 2 renewal ratio. We -- our quality of our book is better than, I would say, average. We are actively managing the book, whether in the short term in terms of disclosure, in terms of looking at different cohorts, how to manage that with our partners. And the final thing I would say is that all that we are doing on the PB health side, in a way is going in that direction that where we are saying that the industry will go more and more towards preferred networks work with -- more with providers who are providing a more efficient outcome from a health, both from a consumer perspective as well as from an economic perspective. So I think over a period of time, we are part of the change that the industry is going towards and the direction that the industry is going. And I think in that scenario, we will get our fair share of what is due to us. And I don't, particularly at this point, see that being a huge challenge. Having said that, if we don't take action and we don't move in the direction that we ought to, then definitely, what you are saying is right that there will be pressure on everything. So I think that's how we look at it. It's a dynamic thing versus a static view of the world. And I think we are moving directionally to solve these problems.

Sure. Can you also comment on the near-term trends that we have seen in the renewal take rates -- are the study or.

At this point, we have not seen any change.

Sure. Sure. And second question is on credit business EBITDA margin and contribution margin for Q1, if you can share that.

On the credit business, Santosh, okay, let me try and do that. I'm going to -- Rasleen, do you want to say it.

From contribution perspective, we're at 41% and adjusted EBITDA has been -- for core of credit, it will be closer to 30%. On adjusted EBITDA margin basis, it will be minus 20%.

Minus 20% rate.

Yes, over overall basis will be 14%.

See, when you look at the credit business a cycle term, I think the last, still until about July, August last year, we benefited because of very high approval rates in the industry. Today, we are on the opposite side of that. I think we have -- not just I think we have bottomed out clearly. We are on a month-on-month growth course. However, this is an issue. You will see with somewhere with our savings business and with our credit business. We have been benchmarked with our high marks. Our high marks were last year, August, September. And of course, those were the great positions, but we have been now benchmarked against us. That's fine. I'm sure we benchmark against these lows. If anything, may or may not be lows. So I think we are good to take that. And we'll move in that direction. I think we have -- as I said, on the savings side, great news is pensions, child plans becoming a much bigger part of the channel. On the credit side, the big advantage is we are now becoming very good quality partners with our suppliers. I'm increasingly hearing from our suppliers and listen, on your old book, I want to pay less, but in a new book, maybe we can pay a little more. And that's a great sign because that implies they are more comfortable with the quality. Of course, it's early days, but the focus is much steeper in terms of getting data pieces together, et cetera. But yes, with stress right now.

Sure, sir. And just one more clarification on the PB money. So the natural fund that will be alginate. Is it a fee earning mutual fund or direct plans?

Fee earning.

It's fee earning.

Thank you, Nidhesh. We'll take the next question from Sachin Dixit, JM Financial.

I had a couple of questions. I know some of -- I mean, discussion at least the first one has been answered in some way or the other. So my question on this is option margin side for core business. right? We have seen a Y-o-Y dip. Obviously, there are factors which you highlighted that you have been investing in things. Can you give us some drivers or some point as on to what is driving this dip? Because at least on a Y-o-Y basis, renewal income should have come from last year and also there should have been slightly up or trajectory is what we are anticipating?

So in a very simple terms, our renewal business has grown, but equal amount is our fresh health business and our fresh health business has grown faster. Our fresh health business, on a 1-year EBITDA basis, probably operate at minus 20%. Our renewal business probably operates 75%, 80%. So obviously, there's a trend upward in there's a trend downwards. Clearly, that is the reality. It's just that the trend which is coming from fresh health growth is -- and the second part is credit. I'm sorry, if you're looking at the core business because I was talking about the insurance part, but looking at the credit business, I think the insurance part is stable. I think it's 43%, it was 43%. It's the credit business, which is on the negative and that is what has caused the problem.

Understood. Understood. My second question is...

Credit business has lost about 15% on the contribution margin.

Fair enough. Fair enough. My second question is on basically slightly higher level, right, in the presentations you have highlighted how the penetration of life and noninterest life insurance is happening, right? And what we see is that the penetration has now dipped back to FY '18-odd levels. So I mean, obviously, PB has done quite a lot, has grown quite well during the same time period. What do you think is actually plaguing the Indian insurance sector? Like how do we recover out of this? How do we actually play the insurance story in the long term?

I think we can only speak for ourselves. And I would say we are part of the solution. The solution is complex. It's never a straightforward solution. In India, it always looks like it's very straightforward. The moment you get into the 400 million Indians who are in that zone of earning under INR 1 lakh a year, but they are the middle class, and they are the aspirational class, and they do not -- they want their children to do much better than themselves. They invest in child education. They want to make sure that they have health coverage, all those things, the moment you speak about that segment, it is not a simple solution. Because on one side, they are seeing price hikes on another side, they are seeing stress on claims. So all being the news, nothing I need to say there, right? That's the reality of the situation. And they are looking for solutions. And that is where I believe exactly what Sarbvir said, that some way Policybazaar is coming out as their hand holder who claims who can help at the point of issuance who can give them the right guidance, who also keeps them on the right path in terms of disclosures, and overall, it's part of the solution. And as that grows, the industry doesn't have a lack of opportunity. I think our solution, we have had challenges with circumspectness with covering all the different ands, right? And I think as we start to cover all the different angles and a solution does appear. I do think that has a challenge in terms of growth. So somewhere, you're going to see a big transformation towards a more viable, more growing, more stable industry. Today, our nominal GDP growth that we were discussing, right? In 10 years, our nominal GDP is tripled for the country. There is no reason why insurance should not have been 6x or 10x given the underpenetration levels. And I think that's absolutely achievable. As long as the right solution gets created in a very circumspect manner, that's a challenge. It's not an easy trivial problem to solve.

One other thing, Sachin, just think about interliner eventually, you're getting into the contract were both sides be tour. And if the disclosures are not up to the level it's required, that impacts the whole claim experience as well. So it's a tough situation for the industry, you're right. People need to get this product early on in their career and their journey. But somewhere the thing of the product be very near to the actual claim incidents, and that obviously doesn't help anyone. So it will be more about education. It will take time. We do what we do as Yashish sai, I mean, in terms of creating awareness in terms of fraud control, in terms of higher disclosures, now trying to have a customer with that play for the last couple of years, trying to look at the garage networks, hospital networks, everything. But yes, we are -- is still a very small part of the total industry, we can do what we can do.

Sure. Just my final question on the health care for side. We have not heard much. So any update?

Nothing much the work is going on in terms of both creating the whole health care service layer, which includes hospitals as a cynical part and a lot of other from the tech solution from the rate GP layer from creating a lot of solutions, which can keep patients outside the hospital. It's a slow build in that sense. It will take us another few quarters to get everything in place. And that's when the real impact starts to come in. See, the way to think about any of these stuff that we do, whether it's PB Health or Gera Network or a lot of stuff that you talked -- heard about the credit space that we are trying to do today is not to do immediately something which is going to impact in the next quarter or 2 quarters. It's planning for the next few years of how we see industry shaping up, and we need to be ready when that opportunity appears. So this will take time. I think in about a year time, we'll start to see some impact. But yes, we will have to give us almost a year from now.

And Sachin, just to kind of answer that question, right, we already have a consumer base, what we'll be doing with our consumer base, right? People who are not very well, we should start working with and trying to make sure they take the right steps to stay out of hospital. We should start to guide our people at the point of renewals towards narrow networks. We should start to guide our people, our consumers and I say our people, our consumers towards using hospitals appropriately in terms of different care pathways, at home care, day care, secondary care, tertiary care, right? I think you will think on all those steps, which are absolutely integrated into making health insurance more viable for the same consumers and giving them a great walk-in, walk-out experience. Now please do appreciate whatever I said, all of that does not necessarily require us to be in the physical infrastructure, right? But you will see the whole thing playing out and a lot of actions that will happen even before the physical infrastructure comes into place. And I think as you see the next few quarters, you will hear a lot more action happening from our side on that front, along with our partners. I think we as an industry need to work together in this in solving this problem.

Thank you, Sachin. We'll take the next question from Madhukar Ladha.

So first, if I calculate the renewal insurance core online renewal revenue take rate, I'm not seeing improvement of there. I would have expected some improvement over there given that over the years, we've been selling more health. So what exactly is like, is causing this drag? Second, if I look at the indirect costs of the new initiatives, that have grown really sharply in this quarter. So my calculation suggests that that's grown about 41% year-over-year. So I wanted to get a sense of what is driving this and on a continuing level, what should that sort of number be? And third, on our health business is growing really well for us and you be seeing that new business health growth is at 65% year-over-year. So I wanted to get a sense of what is the potent business of here? And how much of the potent is from within our customer base opting for a new sort of insurers? And how much of the potent is from outside our sort of customer base who are coming to us? So yes, that would be -- yes, those would be my three questions. And I have a data-keeping questions also, which I'll go later.

So on the renewal take rate, FY '24, we were at 6.5%. FY '25, we were at 6.7%. Now we're at 6.9%. These are not going to change dramatically, but they are sort of on the way up, if anything, and that is reflective of the fact that health is becoming a larger part of the renewal base. In terms -- that's not a EBIT terms, it remains pretty stable because our renewal rates of life are also very high. And what happens is that help the vintage renewal rates take rates are obviously lower than the first year renewal take rate. So actually, there are lots of puts and takes. I mean, I think you're going to a level of detail, which is hard to model from the outside. So it's, that's the only reason. Otherwise, as Yashish said, they have inched upwards.

Over the years, yes, that's right. But I was just looking at a year basis, like Q1 to Q1. But I get your point that...

Look at these things on a rolling 12-month or a year-over-year basis, very hard to model months.

Understood. Understood. Got it Yes.

I think both the indirect costs and new initiatives as well as the port questions I would defer to Sarbvir. But on the port, I would essentially say we are part of the solution. We're not part of the problem. But I'll kind of leave you there.

The most recent number in portability. So I -- first of all, for our own base, we don't put. So we do not encourage customers to renew with another insurer. That's why if you see the same insurer renewal rates in health are extremely high. We do not do any kind of porting at that level. Number two, on the fresh business, I can give you the exact number, 82% of the business that we did was from new customers, new to insurance customers. They may have had a corporate policy, but they did not have a retail health into policy. So I think that should give you a sense. And this number actually if anything has grown, we have less sporting now external last year.

Madhukar, we are the -- I don't want to talk like Trump, but we are a beautiful solution. They're not the problem is all I would say.

And yes, on the fixed cost on the indirect side -- indirect costs on the...

Even more but stupid not to monitor, but, it's not meaningful in any way.

But I would say, Madhukar, there is no, we are very acutely conscious that especially in the PSC business. It is a business where costs have to be controlled, it is not a business where Yashish explained very well up-front that it's a fixed is you can only do something which is what the -- to cut the clot to what you have. So I think over a period of time, all other costs will be controlled and will come down. In any given quarter, it may have been up or down depending on some investment in people, some investment that we may be doing towards something. But it's nothing more than that.

All right. And just some data keeping questions. Can you give us the renewal premium breakup of PoSP, UAE and corporate?

Yes, sure. PoSP would be about INR 180 crores. About crores. And corporate is a huge INR 292 crores. So that's the beautiful part about the corporate business. And I think that's where I'm taking out of heart over the years. Our renewal rates are very strong. So INR 292 crores of renewal. Now just to kind of put this in perspective, if you look at our total business, last year same quarter from corporate is INR 22 crores. And we've done INR 292 crores of renewals. So if anything, our premium from the 272 has grown, which is a signal of how the content business kind of is edging. And it is largely built from renewals.

Thank you, Madhukar. We'll make the last question from Prayesh, Motilal.

Just firstly on this care health care part, where you mentioned that things are in progress. But more importantly, from an insurance point of view. So would you -- all the partners would be working along with you on this or how would this kind of pan out or you need a special insurance company or product or all your existing customers would get adoption? How will kind of this thing move?

Prayesh. What is our responsibility As an industry, forget that Policybazaar, forget insurers. We have a certain base of customers, right? Policybazaar ha a base of customers, there's a base of customers in the industry. Our job is to make sure these customers have a they have paid with their trust and they've laid their trust in the insurance industry. And look, at the point of claim, I should have a great experience. I should -- not a great experience or on word. I shouldn't have a poor experience at the point of claim. Now for that, two things need to happen. Number one, the incidence rate needs to go down. Now the incidence rate is a factor of two things. One is people maybe not taking care of their health, and I would give that or not doing the right things to kind of stay out of hospital. But the second is there is, in a fee-for-service model, there is an incentive towards overutilized. And I think the whole industry is coming together in working at this, some through narrow networks, some through working with there. If you look at countries like South Africa, this is the primary business they do. And that is why people like MMA, discovery, et cetera, even Bupa does a lot of this globally. What they will do is with their customers, they would work towards improving the late time of these people, so they stay out of us. In case they do need to go to the break them down into care pathways. And they say, listen, you need to -- probably if you have malaria, you don't really need to be in a hospital. Chances are you will probably catch a bug in the hospital, which would be more serious for you. Maybe at-home care is much better. And so you need to invest in that. And for that, there is infrastructure that needs to be built for that. Maybe there are daycare centers. So if you need an operation, a bulk of those should happen at daycare centers so that we can come and go back. Today, a 24-hour insurance thing is there that, look, if you are not hospital the 24 hours pre-hospitalization, post-hospitalization, the coverage rates would be challenging. So the industry has to go through a transformation. To a specific question, of course, every partner in the industry is doing this. There is no doubt. The entire industry is moving towards a narrower network, towards a more managed care approach. We cannot have, as an industry, a conflict of interest with our suppliers. Our suppliers currently have a conflict of interest. They make more money when our customers -- when we lose money. Essentially, as an industry, whenever we lose money, our partners make more money. So that imbalance can somewhere only be connected if you have some active role in that, and you'll have an active role if you're adding value to your customers. So yes, that's the journey we are on. And every partner is with us in this. There is no doubt about it. we are us. Like it's not just us. It's the whole industry rate.

Right, right, right. The other question was on the mutual fund piece of the business, right? You mentioned that it's going to be a commission-led model, not in the direct one. So first of all, is this a second attempt at mutual funds if I recall well, Paisabazaar earlier also had some mutual fund business? And is this a new [indiscernible] what is it? And second, you have so many, so much competition on the direct guide with these discount brokers giving all the tools for investing as well as advising? So what is the right to win that you would have to kind of grow this business?

Yes, right to win comes from execution, right? To win does not, nobody is born with the right to, neither are we born with the right to win. Yes, we have some ins into the consumer. And yes, we had a previous attempt at this about 5, 6 years ago. By the way, that did not do badly. That did quite well. But there was internal conflict between management. Because of which that group left and that does Paisabazaar business. In fact, truth be told I'm a small investment in that business. Very few things are investing, but I'm a was more invested in that business. So I don't believe they're doing a bad job. They're doing a great job actually. Now Santosh believes in this, and I also believe in this, that look, through the PB Money app that we have, we can get consumers. And our attempt is to give an array of offers, which goes from corporate bonds to mutual funds to some of the insurance products. And yes, mutual funds are also open. That said, it is very, very early days for us to comment on whether we will be successful, what is our right to win. I guess those are fairly backward unless Santosh, you have a different answer on this.

No, absolutely. I think the fact that mutual fund is a large part of household savings for the country today, I think that gives, I would say, a lot of confidence that we should be in this area. And PB money, I think now we are far more mature as a business to be able to talk about savings as a holistic solution. And I think mutual fund sits very well as part of that solutioning. And I think over time, I think we'll have an answer of right to win. I don't think we have that answer very clear upfront today. But I think there's a play for another partner. And I think if we execute well, there will definitely be a business to build.

See, as I look at -- and yesterday, Alok and me were also discussing this. As I look out into the medium to long term, I actually see Paisabazaar now in a position where it will become a very, very strong player. A lot of confidence. I -- at a fundamental level, and again, this is something, with Alok, businesses don't succeed or fail because they are great businesses. They succeed or fail because the people are very aligned to building them for the long term, and those people are of great quality. And I feel more confident than ever that we have that alignment and we have that team now, which is directionally moving in absolutely the right direction. Prayesh, I could be proven wrong here. Like so far, I have been proven wrong many times, but I don't think often enough is all I would say. Sarbvir is looking around when -- but I think that's our bet here. And let's see. Let's see how we fare on it. It's very early days right now. And we are right now as far as Paisabazaar is concerned. We couldn't be in a worse position from a financials perspective, but we couldn't be in a better position from a team perspective. So I think Rasleen is saying time out.

Just last one small question, Rasleen, allow me for that. On the loan part, right, the core online business, where do you see it bottoming out? And when do you expect it to kind of start picking up momentum again?

I think quarter 3 is when we see things really turning. I think the first 2 quarters, we are taking this time to build our back-end operations, build, I think, product maturity, do a lot of integrations where we have a lot of digital solutions and not do lending in the traditional way. And I think we're building a beautiful solution where for every consumer who comes to our platform, what is the best chance of approval a customer has to get a loan and at the best possible rate. So that's -- we are building that solution. I think quarter 3, all of this should come together, and we should see healthy growth resuming from quarter 3.

Thank you, Prayesh. Thank you, everyone, for joining. For any residual questions, please reach out to us on [email protected]. Have a good day.

Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you, everyone.