Peet Limited (PPC) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Thank you very much, and welcome to this presentation on our '24 results. Also with me is Brett Fullarton, the Group Chief Financial Officer as well to participate in the function -- in the presentation, but also answer any questions that you may or may not have. Just probably to start with and set the scene, in terms of the result for '24 just gone, it's a result that is broadly in line with our expectations. Certainly, after a period of strong earnings delivery over the past few years, we saw FY '24 as somewhat of an adjustment year given the significant set settlements that we've achieved throughout '23 -- '22 and '23 financial years. Our production profile to deliver the results in '25 is now in place. But also, we've seen some significant price growth achieved across the areas for the financial years in '23 and '24 as well. That will mostly be embedded into future years as we move forward in relation to new sales and settlements. There have been a number of settlements that did fall from '24 and into '25. So there was potential to outperform our expectations, but that is now -- those settlements have now occurred throughout late July and the first part of this month in August. In terms of strategy, our strategy execution remains on track. And I think definitely, when you look at the results that we have achieved of the last number of financial years, but also in relation to FY '24 and where we see ourselves in future years. It is delivering results. It's providing flexibility to manage market cycles and that includes the underperforming markets that we are experiencing, particularly in the Victoria and the ACT markets, which I'll touch on shortly. In addition to that, the Flagstone project and its associated Town Center. That strategy is underway and on track. And likewise, with the University of Canberra, which we've now settled and own, it is on our balance sheet. The development approval for that project is underway, and albeit is on the current time frame that we expect. So therefore, just seeing the scene as we move into and talking through the results, we are a leading developer. We do provide quality residential communities. We've been around for pretty much 130 years. We have a very nationally diverse land bank that provides economies of scale, but also quite a wide variety of product. That is critical. We do see ourselves playing an important role in relation to delivering affordable product where we can and it makes sense to do so. We have extensive capabilities and acquisition, delivery and marketing. And we do have the expertise to expand in the new opportunities, which we are doing as we move into more medium density to really capture a change in government policy around increasing infill targets, but also importantly, around what buyers want and where they want to live. So we have adapted quite quickly to that, and we have a pipeline that is built up to achieve that. And the other thing, quite important is we do have a well-established funds management capability. Obviously, there are a number of our peers, competitors moving to this space as well. We pride ourselves on being the leader in this space over almost 130 years. But that is -- that gives us plenty of capacity -- financial capacity to partner in relation to new acquisitions. But also how we can use that funds management platform to unlock value within our land bank, which is quite diverse now moving forward, and particularly around University of Canberra and Flagstone. The pipeline that we do have which sits just under 34,000 lots, it is underpinned by a vast number of low-cost, large-scale projects which are located in very -- the key growth corridors of Australia and the markets, which I'll expand on a bit more shortly. As we move forward to Slide 4, it gives you some sense. We have 44 projects, just under $13 billion in end value. It is a geographically diverse pipeline. A number of key projects across those key states that are listed on that slide. There is strong embedded margins in these projects, and I'll give more insight into that and how we see that. But certainly, I would say that certainly the last 18 months to 24 months, we've seen those embedded margins improve. The average age of our land bank sits at 13 years, which demonstrates the success in our strategy of acquiring long-dated, low-cost projects. We have to be patient and make sure we buy well, and I think we've definitely done that. And that large scale provides economies of scale to deliver quite a wide variety of product. Just touching on our ESG framework. It is a core part of our business. It's what we do. We're very much integrated into the community across the country. And we know that we have a very important role to play. And there's a number of those listed on that slide, particularly around conservation, water, solar and energy. Our buyers do demand that, and we're responding. And I'd like to think that we're probably leading the way as well into proactive. One of the big things that we do internally, which many of you who know me, we're very much of the view that mental health is quite an issue across the country in our communities. And we see ourselves playing a very positive role in doing that, and we do that principally through the Black Dog Institute and our sponsorship with the Scorchers and WA cricket. It is linked because we do leverage sport in relation to the youth. But also with Black Dog in terms of our own internal team members, and also throughout the community, where we can play a role in leveraging Black Dog's network to assist with all our community residents nationally. So that's well and truly entrenched, and I'll say it's part of our DNA in terms of how we do business. Just quickly touching on the financial highlights. Our view, it's a solid performance in a mixed market. The strongest markets remain WA Queensland and South Australia our 2 challenging markets remain Victoria and the ACT. Those markets, the ACT and Victoria markets are home to a select number of long-term low-cost projects with significant and better margins in them. But the ability for the business to adapt throughout FY '24 and reacting, not only reacting to those market corrections in the cycles, but more importantly, positioning the land bank and the delivery profile to come out of that and continue to deliver earnings growth throughout '25 and beyond. And that's where I see a core strength in where we are today. In terms of the first half, second half, we did see a stronger second half in relation to sales and sets profile and also importantly, through price growth. A lot of that is going to flow into throughout FY '25 and into '26 and beyond. In relation to the profit, it's just under $37 million. As I said, there was a handful of settlements that slipped from '24 into '25. Otherwise, I thought we would have outperformed that. Earnings per share sits at $0.78, full year dividend $0.025 fully franked. Our NTA has continued to improve at book $1.31 and we'll talk about that shortly where the market value of our business, in our view, is significantly higher. Our EBITDA margin was slightly down at 21%. That's principally driven by the ACT and the Victoria market cycles in terms of the underperforming and where they are in those cycles. But when those markets begin to return even with normal market conditions, the sensitivity to the uplift in that EBITDA margin will be quick and flows straight through to the bottom line. If you looked at the gross margin -- gross profit margin for us, backing out overheads that 21% sits at roughly between 33% and 35%. So underlying health of our business and our projects remains strong. But as I said, in relation to the current markets in Victoria and ACT. We are ready to respond to an improving market in relation to production profile and product. On the right-hand side, the group delivered just over 2,500 sales for the year, settled just over 2,400. We expect that to improve in '25, but also the mix to change. We have contracts on hand that is an increase of circa 8% to 10% up on the first half of FY '24. And given the sales activity that we've seen through the first bit of the first quarter of FY '25, that continues to improve. Our land bank activation, which is a key for us and making sure that the majority of our land bank is production, which means strong earnings visibility and cash flow that sits 72% and that will continue to rise as we move forward into '25, '26 and '27. Just touching on Slide 8. In terms of our strategy, really, the key things to note there is that our land bank is really well positioned to growth corridors that are undersupplied. An example of that would be Flagstone where we've seen our market share almost double. It currently sits around 17% to 18% of that corridor. That project delivered well. It delivered roughly 330 sales in FY '24. That's about a 90% uplift in sales activity from the previous year. We are targeting up to 400 sales for Flagstone in FY '25. And likewise, with a number of other projects in WA and SA, we were well positioned and we're finding ourselves that given the constraints around supply, given that we're well established, we have all the necessary approvals in place, there's a natural increase in our market share, which obviously flows through to sales volumes as well as price growth as we move forward. In terms of our focus areas, a key where we see value creation being unlocked over the medium to long term. It's definitely the Flagstone project as a whole, but also the Flagstone Town Center and University of Canberra. As I said, the development approval is underway. That's on track, and we have a number of new project commencements to occur over the next 3 years. In terms of Flagstone, interesting enough to give some context around the value of that project and the core, if you like, of our future and what we can build around that. Flagstone certainly has had strong price growth throughout the FY '24 year. That price growth has meant that we're probably achieving a cash margin per lot of between 115 and 120 per lot. The market value definitely is improving and we're seeing and expect strong volumes out of the project from here on end. The Town Center, we expect to effectively unlocking value of the Town Center flag from FY '27 onwards. And it'd be fair to say that we're progressing the development strategy as well as capital partner strategy as we sit here today. In terms of expanding as we've -- and moving into that product diversity, just not within our existing land bank and certainly medium density sites around it. We have a pipeline of 1,200 townhouses nationally, which we are at various points of their construction cycle depending on where the market sits and where we can make an acceptable return. It'd be fair to say that construction costs do vary state by state like given the size and scale and the diversity of our land bank. We've been able to make sure that we bring on delivery of product, whether be it through our master planned communities or a built-form area that makes sense to do so, where it doesn't, we will put that to the side and we'll be patient and wait for the market to return, which it obviously will and then -- but we're ready to respond accordingly. As I said, first settlements from 8 new projects will occur over the next 3 years, and that will increase our land bank activation up to 84%. So I tend to think that as a rule of thumb, if we can operate around that 85% activation or thereabouts, that gives us extremely strong visibility of the earnings and cash flow delivery into the future. There's an ongoing focus on capital management. As you would expect, there is a fair bit going on with production levels and moving around and we'll talk about it shortly, but we are expediting development at Flagstone in particular, to deliver that 400 sales in relation to FY '25 and into '26 and as well as other company-owned projects. So that has -- money has gone into the ground throughout '24, and that's reflected in our cash flow statement. But as we'll talk through shortly, we do expect a fair bit of capital and operating cash to come back into the business from '25 and beyond. And that's just adjusting for the ACT and the markets, which principally have joint venture projects as well. If I just touch on now on the group financial results to probably a little bit more detail, but it's pretty self-explanatory. Sales were up materially, lot settlements were down just on 7%, but we expect lot settlements to flow increase throughout '25. Our revenue was down 14% when you compare it to the '23. That revenue does include the sale of the -- or the settlement of the New Beith property sale for $80 million in early FY '23 and also the material change in the ACT and Vic markets, which has obviously impacted a number of our very high-margin projects in those states/territories. Our EBITDA is down 38%, which is broadly in line with our expectations. Our margins -- EBITDA margins held up well at 21%, as I expect that to gradually improve. And if we can do around 28% through the cycles, which I think this portfolio can do on average, that's a good outcome. And as I said, the gross margin is higher than that. And as we move down, as I said, our NTA sits at $1.31 versus $1.28 and that doesn't reflect the market value of our development projects or our investments in our JVs, which clearly, when we -- what we're seeing in the marketplace demonstrates that, that market value is much stronger than what our book given that we've bought really well over the last number of years. Just moving on to cash flow, core focus. You can see that there's been a fair bit of investment into the project for '24. We had a significant amount of settlements, revenue that came through in '23 and obviously, the markets have continued in terms of sales activity has continued to improve in '24 and certainly has continued in the first bit of the current financial year '25 but we have really starting to position the group in relation to ensuring that we have the stock to deliver into the market in a short construction time frame period or a settlement period through '24 and '25. And Flagstone is a good example of that. We are ensuring that we're currently bulk earth working up to 550 lots. And that enables us with confidence that to deliver at least 400 lots this year in relation to '25, but also puts in a strong position to continue to deliver into a strong sales activity market in '26 and '27. So the '24 year, we've looked at it in a couple of ways of making sure that we set our delivery program up for the future, bringing on these new projects, these new projects are starting to mature. So we have a much broader buyer profile from first-time buyers to second home buyers to downgraders to investors. And the '24 has been that transition where we have positioned the group to capture that into '25 and beyond, and we're well on track to do that. So we do expect strong operating cash flows to come back into the group from '25. There hasn't been a lot of activity in acquisitions. The payments there relate to University of Canberra. We are active in looking at opportunities, but we're not -- we don't need new production for the foreseeable future. So we'll continue to focus on effectively delivering and maximizing what we have but being active in the market, pricing it right, if we get it for the price, we're happy to pay, we'll take it. It also gives us valuable market insights in terms of, I suppose, the ongoing improvement in the underlying value of our existing land bank. In terms of balance sheet, over $1 billion in assets, almost $1.1 billion. It is a big business. And obviously, that's just our share. The book NTA sits at $1.31, which I was touched on. Our bank debt has gone up slightly, and that is just purely putting money in the ground for development. Our Peet bonds are pretty much standard. We refi the $75 million bond in May this year just gone. That was a successful outcome for us. Gearing sits at 34.8%. That's when we took on the acquisition of both Flagstone and University of Canberra, we did flag to the market that we expected our gearing to trend up. We're actually trending quite a bit below where we put that forecast out. So that's a positive. I would note that, that is -- includes land vendor liabilities as well as bank debt and bond debt. If you do strip out the term payments for flag and you see that balance sheet gearing, which is our cost sits at 29%. And then if you look at where the mortgage valuations alone are trending, there's further reduction in that gearing and then obviously, overlay market, there's a significant reduction in gearing. So my point here is that we have very good visibility of our gearing and our balance sheet. We have very good visibility of where the mortgage valuations and market assessment of value of our projects sit and we have a very clear transition in terms of how that gearing will trend down throughout towards the end of '25 and beyond. So -- and in terms of covenant gearing, there's plenty of headroom. So there's no issue whatsoever in relation to our banking covenants. Interest cover ratio is down, and that's just a function of the EBIT given the earnings profile for '23 to '24 we expect that to obviously rebound as our earnings growth rebounds in '25 and beyond. The next slide, I think it's important. We do pay dividends, and they're fully franked. We have delivered just over $200 million since FY '18. Our payout ratio between 50% and 60%. We do oscillate probably at the midpoint there, generally speaking, on a full year basis. As part of our capital management strategy and shareholder focus, we do have a share buyback in place that has been extended to September of '25 again. We continue to be in the market acquiring our shares where we see fit to do so. The average buyback price to date is just over $1 around $1.06. And that's equated to roughly $22 million. So I'd see those 2 working in tandem as we move forward to effectively continue putting money back into shareholders' hands. I'll just touch on the group operating performance to give some insight in relation to EBITDA. Our EBITDA is down, that's just a function of lower settlements and obviously, the impact on both the ACT and big markets, as I touched on. It's also -- the East Coast continues to be a large driver around our earnings. And that's been a deliberate strategy to effectively reweight our land bank towards the East Coast driven by population growth, net interstate migration, population movements, employment, infrastructure, they're the most populous cities. That still remains the case. We're certainly well positioned in WA, and we've been obviously a beneficiary of that, but most of our own projects or our development projects do sit on Eastern seaboard. Our joint venture earnings were obviously lower, and that has impacted our EBITDA, and that's coming mainly out of the ACT and Googong and also out of Victoria as well. But our funds management income, our fee income has obviously materially jumped as well, mainly given the strength of the West Australian market, where most of our projects here are in funds and the fee income there has project management selling fees has rebounded quite strongly. To put things in context, and this is more of a look forward or get a feel for what's happening in our space, it's just not I suppose, isolating FY '24. In terms of Queensland, the average price growth we've achieved throughout '24 sits around 18% to 20%. Flagstone in particular achieved 28% which is quite significant. And WA, probably we've averaged between 30% and 34%, depending on the corridor, but the northern corridor comfortably sits at 40%, 42%. So a very strong rebound and probably arguably a catch-up in relation to where land sits and housing and also where it sits relative to the East Coast, obviously, driven by there's investors, obviously, upgraders, but our first-time buyer and WA has certainly increased as well. In terms of Adelaide, we've seen on average about 20% to 25% price growth. And that's quite important to note because I think those -- that growth hasn't really been fully impacted in '24. You will see that flow through from sales in second half '24 that will settle throughout '25 new sales in '25 that will continue to flow off the next number of years, it's actually elevated the underlying margins in our projects. And that's quite important because I think the projects that we do have now are at a maturity where they're probably through past that 20% life cycle, and that's where we're getting a much broader buyer profile. So we're seeing our margins sort of step up, if you like, as we move forward. And if volumes are able to be maintained thereabouts, then that's quite -- that gives us confidence in relation to the future of the business in terms of its unlocking its value. In terms of the ACT and Vic and the impact it's had obviously a material drop in sales, but we've probably seen around the 12% to 15% pullback in pricing the ACT. But that's off a high base. The prior year in '23, we probably saw up to a 40% price growth. So -- and Vic's probably around 10% to 12% price reduction but we probably saw an average around 30% to 32% price growth in the prior year. So my message here is that, yes, these markets are adjusting. They're going through their natural cycle. Nothing new or concerning for us. We're giving back a little bit of the price growth to achieve that when these markets return, those margins net are still materially higher than what they were 3 years ago. So we haven't lost these projects. We haven't lost the sales or set. It's just a timing issue. But as I said earlier, we're well positioned to respond to an improvement in market and we are starting to see some signs of that, which I'll touch on shortly. In relation to sales activity, it's pretty self-explanatory, but I think you can see that the ACT in particular, was a challenging market and underperforming. That has stabilized as has Vic. So we do expect an improving in that market. We're probably -- our view is that we're at the bottom and we're bouncing at the bottom. And there's a number of lead indicators that demonstrate that for us. Cancellation rates are stabilizing that the builders are starting to look to accept a bit more in their pipeline. Our inquiry levels are starting to improve at various levels of website traffic. So there are all the things that we've sort of taken note that gives us confidence in terms of what we move forward with. If I touch on now on Slide 16 -- sorry, 17. As you can see, our inquiry levels have been quite strong throughout the second half of '24 and we've seen that momentum continue in the first quarter of '25. And as I said, we can just -- we're just starting to see some improvement in acquiring the ACT just not from a consumer but also from the builders. So that's a positive. And obviously, the SA, Queensland and WA remain quite robust. I think it's also important to note that with the market such as Victoria and the ACT, we're not bringing on any new product or stages. So that does impact the sales inquiry. But I think certainly, the feedback to date in the absence of that, that we're still finding people going onto the website and searching is a good sign moving forward. In relation to the outlook, we still have a busy 3 years. We've got a number of projects to kick off. We have 2 new land projects being Craigieburn West and our Palmview project in the Sunshine Coast. Both those projects are extremely high margin. And then as we move into the townhouse apartments, University of Canberra is the largest one there. As I said, that DA development approval is underway, is progressing in accordance with time frames and probably on track to start doing some sales in '26. I suspect, and I'm relatively confident that the launch of that project could actually time rightly in terms of the uptick in that market, and we'll be at the blocks pretty quick, I can assure you that. In terms of Keysborough, Cranbourne, Glendalough, Forestville they're all on track. So they're all owned projects balance sheet. That will come through and deliver earnings into the next 3-year period. All those projects are fully funded out of existing cash flow and facilities as we move forward. Just rounding out in terms of where our focus is. We'll continue to balance the portfolio. Our acquisition activity still and focus still remains on the Eastern Seaboard. And obviously, given the challenging or the underperforming markets in Vic that remains a focus and hopefully, there's a few opportunities that may come out of it. We do consider acquisitions, as I said, but again, we're not hand to mouth. We can strategically and tactically replace our pipeline in terms of how we look at it and how we can structure deals, which can make terms or options up to be long-dated but we're not hand to mouth. So we price it right, and we will be selective and disciplined as we always are. We'll obviously accelerate, and we are doing that in relation to our land bank and Flagstone is a good example of that and anything else that we can bring in early in terms of project commencements, we'll do that and we are actively looking at maybe a number of projects that we can look to do that. Targeting infill projects. This is a key thing, particularly around government funding for affordable and social housing. They do require more middle ring infill projects or product close to universities, schools, hospitals, transport, et cetera, et cetera. So we've been working in partnership with obviously the government in relation to trying to provide will be part of the solution and our ongoing focus on capital management, which really doesn't change. And we'll continue to look at that payout ratio between 50% and 60%. And as I said, we've extended the on-market buyback and as well as leveraging our funds management platform and capital partners to unlock value and the 2 key projects there remain Flagstone Town Center in particular as well as University of Canberra. In terms of the outlook, we have the delivery program in place to make market demand. We're building in excess capacity to ensure that if the market continues the way it is, and our market share in various corridors continues to increase, we can deliver into that. And it also means that if we are proactive in that space, our settlement time frames can come back, which means early delivery of earnings and cash flow. There are various market cycles. And as I said, WA, Queensland and South Australia continue to be strong markets for us, but underperforming markets remain the ACT and Vic. As I said, with those cycles, there's nothing in there that gives us cause for concern. It's going through, its natural adjustment accordingly and given the population growth that is occurring and given the under supply, then we do -- those markets will respond accordingly. It's just a timing issue but we're making sure that we're well positioned to do that. The cost of living. I don't have to go too much. We can all feel it and consumer confidence. They do remain cautious, but the banks are still lending. And certainly, what we're seeing with our buyers is they are very well prepared in terms of demonstrating to the banks the ability to service the debt. But we are conscious in terms of ongoing price growth to make sure that there's a balance between ensuring that we can continue volumes and we can deliver affordable product as we move forward. But what I can say is the underlying resi drivers remain supportive, and we'll do for some time. There is an ongoing constraint in housing supply. We're seeing it daily. Obviously, the overseas migration, the population growth continues as well as labor market conditions continue to be tight. So we're seeing the touch points throughout all our business, whether it be us directly, our consultants and contractors, they're all feeling it. They're all seeing it. So I can't see any short-term fix to this. But what I do feel is that the housing side of it is not going to go away, but we certainly see ourselves as well positioned to play a role in assisting with alleviating housing crisis that is currently going on in this country. Inquiry levels continue to improve as we touched on. We're very well positioned to navigate the current environment and particularly ACT and Vic markets and where we see things moving forward and obviously subject to conditions and timing of settlements, we are well positioned to deliver growth in earnings for '25 and also deliver strong earnings cash flow profile as I said, supported by the contracts on hand and sales activity. But quite importantly that price growth that we've managed to deliver or achieve throughout the last 18 months that is embedded, that is flowing through and will particularly flow through from FY '25 into '26 and '27 in conjunction with the maturity of the broader maturity and the activation of our land bank on a national footprint. So with that, I hope that gives you some sense of the '24 result where the business sits, where we're heading. We're really well placed. A lot of hard work we done over a number of years is paying off, and we have very, very good visibility of the flexibility of the projects, the upside to these projects. They're significantly derisked from an infrastructure, environmental planning, regime or regulations. So for us now, it is really just ensuring that we are well positioned to deliver the product in a timely way into the market. So with that, I'm happy to open up for any questions.

[Operator Instructions] Your first question is a phone question from Gavin Allen with Euroz Hartley.

Brendan, so just a quick couple for me, if you wouldn't mind. So just I'm exploring the ACT and Canberra, which you touched on. Just interested if you can give us a bit of flavor around the volume that you see through there now versus those previous levels? And maybe a sense of what sort of [ GP ] still making out of that inventory at the reset prices. So just perhaps it's around what sort of contribution is added as those markets sort of stabilize.

Good question. So to put in context, the ACT market as a whole in FY '24 effectively delivered net 0 sales. The reason for that, our gross sales were okay, but '24 soar effectively a reasonable amount of cancellations that flowed through in relation to parties, not being able to -- probably more to do with the house construction. They settle -- they signed up for the block. And then they went to get the pricing for their dwelling and their serviceability in conjunction with the 12 interest rate increases throughout the year had an impact. So put that in context, last year, for example, Googong did 200 sales versus 0. Now when you're talking about a gross margin of probably 200 or so per lot, it's material.

Yes, absolutely. So they're starting to sell again out there at all? Or have you seen any uptick or change or is it too early yet?

No. We're starting to see the cancellation rate abate effectively '24 appears to be a cleanup. So seeing the cancellation rate decline, we're seeing the number of resales within the state diminish. So where I'm getting is probably as we got closer to the second -- towards the end of the second half of FY '24, we've seen that market tighten up in relation to the cancellation rate and resales. And growth, we're still achieving gross sales. And as I said that in terms of the price adjustment, we've probably seen about a 12% to 15% pullback in price but we achieved about a 40% price growth the prior year. So we're probably net close to 25% to 30% still up and that margin, I quoted you then is the margin as we sit here today. So -- and the indications from the builders and they've been working through their pipeline as well in terms of managing their cancellations and not wanting to take on too much and work through all contracts. The indications are that the build is expect to start taking on new contracts from October this year.

Got it. So plenty of leverage there. And just 1 more for me. So you mentioned that you're targeting 400 in sales in Flagstone in 2025. Can you remind me or us of what you settled there in '24?

Yes, I can do that for you mate. So we settled just over 220. And I'm sorry, yes, just over -- so we settled about 280 versus 220 in the prior year. Sales, as sales were up 91%. So we achieved 334 sales in '24. Now that will flow through higher settlement profile in '25 and then obviously, we're targeting 400 sales, which we think we can do in relation to '25, which flow into increase -- further increase in settlements out of that project into '26.

Your next question is a webcast question from Ian Christie from Argonaut. This reads, Hi, Brendan, could you comment on difference between growth and sales up strongly and growth in contracts on hand values up much less?

Yes. And that will be growth in sales, that will be effectively a combination of the product mix. So the material impact will be ACT. The ACT obviously will impact that. So we settled a fair bit of the ACT or the Googong settlements in the second half of '24. So our settlements for Googong for this year was 142 versus 0 sales. So -- and probably Jumping Creek is similar as well. So that's probably the big swing factor in conjunction with WA, whereby a lot of the WA projects are fee income driven so not 100%. That's probably the key difference, I think.

[Operator Instructions]

All right. If there's no more questions, then I'm more than happy to wrap up. But as I said, just in closing, FY '24, in line with our expectations probably missed out on some upside, which has flowed through the '25. We expect earnings growth to come through in '25 and beyond followed by cash flows. The business is really well positioned. Our key projects are performing exceptionally well, both in terms of volume and price growth. And as I said, the ACT big markets have had a material underperformance in FY '24 when those cycles do change just even an average market will be quite a material impact -- positive impact to the Peet Group's earnings as well as cash flows as we move forward. And that's a timing issue. So as I said, there's nothing in those markets that gives us cause for concern. So with that, thank you very much for your time. Much appreciate it, and I look forward to either touching base between now and the half year. Otherwise, I'll talk an update as the business moves forward into the first half of '25. So thank you.