Perrigo Company plc (PRGO) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Okay. Good afternoon, everybody. I'm Chris Schott at JPMorgan, and thanks for joining us. I'm pleased to be hosting a fireside chat today with Perrigo's CEO, Murray Kessler. Murray, first of all, thanks for joining us and Happy New Year.

Same to you.

Before we jump into questions, Murray, I was hoping you could just maybe make some opening remarks as we think about kind of coming off an extraordinary 2020 and as we think about the company's positioning heading into the new year.

Well, thank you, Chris. Thanks for having Perrigo at the conference. 2020 was certainly a different year than any of us could have predicted in the beginning of the year. It was full of uncertainty and volatility due to the COVID-19 pandemic, but I'm proud of how Perrigo performed through the crisis, and importantly, believe that a number of consumer trends have emerged that when combined with some of the lessons we learned internally through trying to satisfy the demand within the pandemic, will make us even stronger and a better company going forward. And let me elaborate. For those of you who don't know us, as a company, we make many essential products that were needed through the pandemic, and our priorities were, first and foremost, to protect our -- the safety of our employees, who were heroes. If you think back in March and April, even though the numbers on infections are higher today, the fear was tremendous in the beginning and getting folks -- while some of us like myself were safely locked down at home, to get folks to come into a manufacturing facility and keeping those running was no easy challenge and took a lot of communication and a lot of support. And -- but we did that with probably 70% of our normal staffs, whether it was local restrictions, et cetera, we probably carried most of the year, 30% absenteeism, either because of local restrictions because we told people they were high-risk and we didn't want to take the chance and they needed to stay home or there were some who were -- who were fear. But those -- the employees that kept the plants running remarkably kept north of 30 facilities globally running through the entire pandemic, many of them 24 hours a day, 7 days a week without missing a single shift for the year, which is I can't tell you how proud of them I am. Our second priority was with surging demand. We had a real challenge of what we could supply because as a store brand manufacturer, we don't have lots of excess capacity in our system, purposefully. So we needed to prioritize the products that society needed most, ahead of profits. We believe that was the right thing to do. And third, we needed to keep our transformation to a consumer self-care company on track when we were managing sort of 40 or 50 major initiatives within the company and all of a sudden be able to do that remotely. Despite the uncertainty we experienced at the end of 3 quarters, we reported total Perrigo revenues up nearly 8%, and we'll show good growth for the year. We'll give a little back. I'll talk in a second about cough, cold. And with worldwide consumer revenues growing just north of 10% for the first 9 months and strong growth well over our targets organically. And that was mainly driven by North America. Our international operations were more negatively impacted by the product portfolio and the channel system there, which is a lot of individual pharmacies, where more of those were shut down and difficult to get to. So U.S., this was the year of our consumer self-care Americas division carrying the way. Remarkably, I'm proud to say that the original guidance we provided pre-COVID in the beginning of the year, we've been able to maintain that despite a number of headwinds, including, for us, big numbers, $25 million in incremental COVID costs, a significant product recall and on albuterol, the sale of our nonstrategic Rosemont business, which was in the original guidance and what has turned out to be -- I don't even think very weak cough, cold season describes it. It's with all the social distancing and masks and kids not going to school, it's almost been a nonexistent cough, cold season. As I also said, we've had a -- our team has been amazing, not just the ones working in the facilities, but also the ones working remotely from home, have been able to keep virtually all of our consumer self-care transformation activities on track, which are critical to us achieving our long-term growth algorithm of 3%, 5%, 7%, 3% organic revenue growth, 5% operating income growth and 7% EPS growth. As far as the external consumer trends I referred to go, they broadly favor our business model. E-commerce, everybody has seen that, but that's an area we had invested in heavily over the past few years. So we were ready for it, but it literally accelerated in any of our strategic planned projections by 2 to 3 years, and it provided Perrigo a source of competitive advantage because we had invested it, meaning our market shares are higher in e-commerce than they are in traditional brick-and-mortar. Our focus on doing the right thing in ESG and diversity and inclusion launched in the last several years benefited us to the challenges the U.S. faced during periods of social unrest and will continue to do so. Private brands benefited from new trial during product shortages and has historically benefited from difficult economic times, which we're in. And for perspective, a recent McKinsey report indicated 25% of people tried store brand for the very first time during COVID and 80% of them intended to continue using them, which is a real positive indicator. A Daymon report indicated 9 out of 10 consumers now trust private brands in our categories as much as they do the national brands. And in the same study, 86% of U.S. consumers view private brands as equal or better to national brands. And obviously, and I don't think there's anybody who will disagree with me. We had a little bit of foresight and we thought self-care was important before. But in the new world we're living in, clearly, self-care has become front and center for consumers in the new world we're facing. I also talked about some internal gaps that we learned about. The pandemic did expose some gaps, primarily in our supply chain. And we are an organization that provides over 11,000 SKUs and has high capacity utilization, surges in demand at unprecedented levels in combination with the absenteeism I referred to, challenged our supply chain and put pressure on our retail partners. But remarkably, this showed us a path towards higher productivity via SKU rationalization. So we had to focus on what was best. And in doing so, during the period of time when we focused back down onto the product society needed, we had 5 out of 6 of the highest production weeks in the company's history. And that showed us a gross margin opportunity and that we will be going after going forward, and will result in stronger service levels, and it also presented a significant opportunity to go beyond just price discussions with our customers and really start some hard work for real strategic partnerships. This is a real opportunity for Perrigo and a top priority. So bottom line, Chris, I'm extremely proud of the Perrigo team, the performance of the business and the progress of our transformation. I believe the next step to really unlock value because I do believe we're undervalued, is to work through the tax overhang over the, call it, next 18 months and thereby provide more certainty to the business. And we believe when we can get through that, the company should see a meaningful increase in value, more in line with our consumer peers to which we can currently trade at a significant discount. I mean, almost half what that consumer multiple. So we're excited about the opportunity. I love the team that we've built. It's been a quick 2 years and are more excited than ever about Perrigo's future, but we have some things to work through.

Great. Well, it's great opening remarks. Just going back to the COVID impact, first of all. When I weigh in on versus kind of weigh all the some positives, some negatives, was this a net positive or net negative for your results overall? And I think there was kind of that surge in demand early on, there's obviously some increased cost of production. There are some businesses impacted. I'm trying to like push through all that. How do we think about the overall impact for the year?

I think if I look at the budgets from the original part of the year, internally the way they were set and the way guidance was built, I would say sort of the impact wasn't that big, but that's why they tell you to diversify, right? We're a diversified portfolio. So if I look within that portfolio, CSCI significant -- was hurt on part of it. They managed it beautifully, and I'm proud of the way they handled it. But CSCA performed -- overperformed, CSCI underperformed a little bit. In totality, they kind of came in over the course of the full 12 months after pantry load out and all that, about what we expect. We had albuterol that came in and we had built that into our forecast, and it overperformed in the beginning, but then it came back out again, but they overperformed in the beginning portion of it. So we weren't that far off there as well relative to our internal projections. E-commerce overperformed, traditional brick-and-mortar underperformed. Our maintenance kind of products, it's almost intuitive. Product -- people don't want to cough or sneeze right now. So now when that happens -- had a very strong year-end, should continue to do so and be a tailwind. People eat and ate a lot during lockdowns. We sold a lot and continue to sell a lot of digestive aids, and that continues to be a very strong business for us. Conversely, even within the CSCA portfolio, which should all have a great year, cough, cold season relative to last year's very strong cough, cold season, as I said, was -- pediatric illnesses were almost 0 this year, down 90% plus versus a year ago by IQVIA and some of the measurements of that and that was deeper than expected, and that will recover how much in 2021, we'll see, but that was a factor. So bottom line is we're a diverse portfolio. We had our ups and downs. We were able to help society. Our team feels great about it, rallied at it. And as a company, we help society, we are delivering on our commitments, and we're proud of our role in what is just a terrible, terrible crisis.

Yes. Sticking on some of those near-term COVID dynamics. I think you mentioned cough, cold, but just how in general should we be thinking about 4Q on the consumer? It's been one of the, I guess, themes you've been talking about the conference. In general, we had this kind of second wave. It seems like it's hit different parts of the ecosystem differently. So talk maybe a little bit more just how impacted is cough, cold right now? And then conversely, are there offsets elsewhere in the portfolio as we think about the quarter?

Yes. Well, listen, you can do the math yourself based on what we were projecting for the year. We -- before cough, cold, we had forecasted a softer fourth quarter. We got some pushback on that, but I think we were very accurate. And the only one that was -- we had certain parts of our portfolio. But to put in perspective, cough, cold. Cough, cold is going to -- over the course of the year, is about 8%, 9% of our business. And the kind of declines that you can read yourself in IRI would have a 1% to 2% impact on the year. But the cough, cold season is about 4 months. So 2, 3 months, 2 months of that, good solid months of that are in the fourth quarter. So it will be more exaggerated in the fourth quarter, but it's isolated and it will come back. And we had other offsets that keep us on track with our guidance.

Okay. And then maybe on, I guess, the near-term dynamics, just any update on generic ProAir in terms of potential relaunch there and the progress of addressing some of the challenges of that product?

Yes. I mean we've had a lot of learning, a lot of studying have been done. I have sort of foreshadowed to the market that on the one hand, I think we feel very good about that. Our primary concern is we built a faulty device. And that would have taken years and years to go through the whole process again in the FDA, and we have learned with pretty well certainty that it wasn't the device itself. I mean, said another way, you can -- and we have done full-blown tests where we use competitive products, put it into our device and it works fine and doesn't pause. So having said that -- and I don't want to go into any more detail of what was the issue, but it's more quickly addressed. But on the other hand, you have to convince the FDA and because of that, it might be a pleasant upside surprise, but I think it's unlikely to be back in the market in '21. It's a huge market. There will still be a market for us at the -- and we believe it will be at the size that was there beforehand, there's room for -- we had only built originally a 5-share estimate. And so that opportunity will be back. But we're not planning on it, and we won't guide for it in 2021.

Okay. Okay. So treat that more as if something happens an upside event for '21, but probably not going to be multiyear delay. So maybe kind of 2022 and beyond, that's back in the market?

Right. And I think you have to look at -- what I've been saying at 3, 5, 7 and look and say, is the company on track for 3, 5, 7, putting that one issue aside.

Sure. Yes. Makes sense. Maybe last question, just in kind of this dynamic. Can you just talk a little bit about the progression of the business through '21? It just seems like 2020 was such a crazy year in terms of dynamics. Is 2019 a reasonable way to think about kind of the flow of the business through a typical year? And is that a reasonable analogy for '21? Or just any color you can provide on -- is this going to be like a more back-end weighted year, more front-end weighted year? Sort of any color there?

Well, it will definitely be a -- I want to answer your first part of your question, but it will definitely be more back-ended because of all the pantry load in the beginning of the year, and we're starting with a weak cough, cold season. So even if it is exactly like 2019, it will be back loaded, right, because a lot was pulled forward in 2020. Whether it's fully back to normal again depends on recovery and the seasonality of different businesses. We have a big sun care business in Europe. I think that will be like 2019. I think people will, by then, a lot of people, by summer will be traveling again...

Knock on wood.

A lot of people will be rejuvenated and I think -- I believe in the fall, kids will be -- we assume kids will be back in school, and it won't be a second year of home schooling and or remote schooling and bless their souls, they'll get head lice and all of those [ head ] things. Catch colds and bring them home. That was terrible. Sorry. And -- but I do think the dynamic of cough, cold will -- fortunately, there's not much left of the cough, cold season, but it will affect the first quarter some. But I think we have enough growth initiatives that more than I ever imagined when I joined the company, and I think we've proven over the last 2 years through not only what we guide and put in the plan, but our ability to continue to identify good bolt-ons that will supplement the growth. I don't see any end in sight to those. And I think the tailwind on e-commerce and the investments we made will benefit us and the talent and the business intelligence and then add to it, what I just referred to in my opening remarks, an untapped opportunity in mining for gross margins through SKU rationalization and strategic partners with big customers. So despite all the uncertainty, I'm still bullish, and I think it should be a third good year in a row.

Maybe just elaborating on those points you made on the gross margin side. Can you talk a little bit about -- more about what that initiative is and the magnitude of that opportunity as you take some of the learnings from COVID and try to apply that going forward?

Yes, sure. And this is -- takes partnership by our customers. But in the early days of Perrigo, we had a lot of excess capacity, and we -- our strength is our complexity, but any strength to the extreme can become a weakness. So Perrigo, pretty much says yes to any variation, a different cap, a different -- slightly different label size. You want 50 count? You want 60 count? You want 70? You want 500? You want 510? You want 520? Well, all of those add complexity and weaken productivity. So when we saw what we were able to do when customers all partnered with us to say, look, we're just going to make, on acetaminophen, these 5. That's it. The world needs it. We can't be doing a bunch of changeovers. The productivity increases in face of 100%, 200% demand surges allowed us to fill a tremendous amount of what was beyond any normal variation. I mean, they were a huge surge. And we had a little backstop to help us as well. Then the numbers come in and you like look at the productivity, look at the numbers and the efficiencies, the cost coming out of the plants, there's more to this. And with the business intelligence, we've given ourselves and the analytical capabilities and the teams that we've put in place over the past few years, we dug into it, and you started looking at the opportunity and you say, through COVID, in the U.S., it's different than Europe, we're in the 90s in service and -- or x were in the 90s. But in the U.S., given the demand surges, we probably filled 70% of the orders. And meaning we left 30% on the table that we just couldn't fill those orders. Now that doesn't mean we would have shipped 30% more, but we would have shipped a lot more. Because some of those were repeat orders trying to get us sold. So you say, well, why are we leaving some of that on the table? And you start tearing it down line by line, and we're a complex business, right? 11,000 SKUs, liquids, tablets, gels, I mean, powders, everything. And you start tearing down those lines and where those bottlenecks are and what you're leaving on the table and what the margins of the products. We went through the analysis and at the end of the day, we had something like 20% to 25% of our 11,000 SKUs contributing 95% of our gross margin dollars. And we had big numbers and SKUs contributing nothing, yet we were leaving high-margin items unshipped. So that is the opportunity besides the demands of our customers and the rightful expectations, by the way, that when someone places an order, we can fill it, right? So that is a little bit of a mindset change, that we don't say yes to everything. And in some cases, it's better to say, no, but fill -- and get that full customer service and in effect, you probably end up shipping more. So the net of it is, I think you should expect to see gross margin. It already started in the second half, but continue to make progress through and grow through the year, not be a negative.

Okay. Great. The other question is on that same topic, your relationship with the customers through COVID. I mean, I think it's really highlighted the value of what you offer and the necessity. Do you feel like you have a different dialogue and relationship with your major customers than prior to COVID? Or do you think that kind of goes back to maybe more the normal dynamic as we move past the pandemic?

I think there's a lot of customers. So I would say, on some, it significantly improved. On others, it -- there is no customer that likes to place an order and not -- and have an empty shelf, right? So in the beginning, there was unbelievable partnership and there are recognition. But after 4 or 5 months, that waned. But what it did present an opportunity and what I'm excited about is that -- and it really was driven by the dramatic change channel shift to e-comm. There were some customers who invested heavily, and there were others who were sort of slowly -- it's expensive, we're investing much more slowly and lost a lot of share. And there was the -- and we had invested heavily. So we were gaining share. That created the opportunity for real dialogue on how to have strategic partnerships and not make the only dialogue about price. Price will always be a challenge on our business. We understand that. But to the extent that our -- that we can partner with customers and make it win-win and less about price and more about innovation and more about consumer trends and e-comm and e-commerce and digital communication and the development of unique brands that give different retailers different competitive advantages and grow their categories and their overall basket, that's where we think there's a big opportunity. And by the way, I think that's not only a Perrigo opportunity. I think that is an entire private label industry opportunity. I served on a CEO panel on PLMA last week and I think you would have heard that echoed from every CEO in -- you did hear that echoed from every CEO on that panel.

Okay. Great. One thing that we've talked about so far is innovation. I know that's been a priority for you from the time you joined the company. Just give us an update in terms of the progress you're making in terms of increasing innovation coming out of Perrigo? And are there any examples we can kind of think about as we look out to 2021 on innovation?

Yes. I mean, in the consumer business, it's less the big new drug, and it's more lots of singles and doubles. But I think across the world, we had gone from back in '16, '17, '18, where our new product launches had waned to somewhere around $200 million in launches globally last year. And I had said we were -- we had developed a pipeline of $0.5 billion, but I'm happy to -- I'm more happy to say today, the pipeline is still $0.5 billion, even though we launched a couple of hundred million, we refilled it and it's now -- so we should -- we'll have a very robust year in new products in both the consumer side and in the Rx side in 2021. A couple of examples. We had talked about a natural line coming into the United States. That's a big piece of business for us in Europe. That's on track. On attrition, we should have a good year. We had to delay the hypoallergenic launch because of capacity challenges on COVID that comes early in the year in a meaningful, somewhere around 10% of the market that we have a 0 share of. It's a big item and that will come in this year. We have another natural line launching pan-European in the year that I'm not willing to say. We bought the skin care product in some Eastern European countries from Sanofi. And so they're the new products. And we do this a lot in Europe. We'll take the strength of the ACO line and we will -- which is the #1 brand in all the Nordic regions. It's a heck of a line with hundreds of SKUs, but it's just -- it provides a constant new product pipeline. And that pipeline drove double-digit growth in Belgium this year on the Dermal X line and we expect that. Those are just a few examples. But every brand or every segment in the company has innovation and new product activity coming in year, and will the year after that and the year after that.

Is there any Rx-to-OTC switches we should be watching this year? Or is that more '22 and beyond, we should think about that?

Well, you're going to have the other 8 months of the Voltaren equivalent. So that's in the first half of the year in 2022, we're leading the way on the NASONEX switch, which is we'll see if we -- how we do on the branded side of it, but it's also the private label wants a $1 billion brand on the Rx side, and that's all on track. You've got probably a couple of years out, but you've got the combo products that Advil launched ibuprofen and acetaminophen combo, that creates opportunity for us, and that's being worked on. You've got Cialis, Tamiflu, probably still a few years out but in the right pipeline. But the good news there is, Chris, I joined the company and everybody told me there were no more. And so we built -- that's why we bought Rx and got it -- I mean, excuse me, that's why we bought Oral Care and Ranir to sort of give us other avenues of growth that weren't so reliant on the regulatory process or others. But then all of a sudden, that pipeline has filled back up. I think there's another lice product, Sklice, which is a very big product as well that is working its way through. And for those of you who don't know us, we have a reputation of, because of our scale, we make the investments that -- we don't wait for the conversion to happen. We have a portfolio and so that we're ready to be first to file when a brand does make the switch.

Great. Great. Can you talk -- I think some of this innovation addressed this, but that 3, 5, 7 target. It sounds like ex ProAir, you're feeling like '21 is kind of -- is that a reasonable way to think about that be on track absent as of ProAir? Is that a fair assessment?

Yes. I mean I want to be clear, I'm not going to be able to cover for ProAir. I probably could, but then I would undermine all the work I've done in the last 2 years on getting Perrigo back to doing the right things, making the right investment and spending properly. And so yes, you got to sort of have that mindset of 3/5/7 and then take out ProAir. On the other hand, I don't rule out that, and no guarantees, I don't rule out that another bolt-on or to come in some point and fill that gap.

Sure. But just in terms of positioning the company for that sustained growth, it sounds like you feel like you have the pieces in place now with that -- I guess your confidence of that is a sustainable kind of growth algorithm for the company versus when you gave it, is -- just talk a little bit about the progress you've made, I guess, to get the company ready for that over time?

In essence, we've done it 3 years in a row. And if you take out the incremental COVID costs and the fact that we sold off the Rosemont Rx business in Europe and forget about the cold and cough. You just sort of take those couple of issues and the albuterol recall cost, we're doing it now. We're doing it a year early. And we were able -- and because of that being early, we were able to cover for it. Our cost savings are all in line. You're going to be -- you're going to see much tighter numbers on the OpEx expense and the investments that I made, I said year 1, I thought it was $25 million. I came back year 2 and said I was wrong. It needs to be at about a $50 million level, but we were holding the line there, and we will deliver on that. We -- that will be our pot to work with on sort of those future initiatives. So that's all delivering. I really think, look, I'm proud of the way Perrigo performed. If you look at the numbers, we should be trading at a much higher multiple. So why aren't we? I think the big thing that Perrigo needs to deal with next, that the CEO needs to deal with next and are the 2 drags on the businesses, If you're a consumer investor is what are you going to do with Rx? And what about this overhang on the business? Because that makes -- both of those issues make me nervous, what if the worst-case happens, et cetera. So what's become a priority for me is clearing the decks on the overhang and if the opportunity presents itself to still go forward with the reconfiguration of the portfolio to be a pure consumer soft care play. And at today's multiple, it wouldn't take much of a multiple uplift to offset any dilution associated with it.

Yes, absolutely. On that tax issue, that's certainly, when I have conversations with investors, it seems it just creeps a lot of people out of the story. So I guess your sense of urgency to address that I guess how much of that is within your control? And how much of this is you just have to let the process play out a little bit more to get to a point where you could maybe put that behind the company?

I would say that if I wanted to go slower, it would be easy. I could have appealed -- the board could have appealed the judicial review. We had a good case. We think we were right on the judicial review. The judge disagreed. But we know we have a much, much stronger case on the merits and on the technical aspects at many different levels of whether throwing it all the way out or even in the world of capital gain that this number becomes down significantly. And there is no real chance of meaningful settlement discussion until you're in that kind of world, not into a judicial review world. So because of that, in the last -- I don't know whether it was last week or the week before, we had to notify the court to whether we were going to appeal the judicial review. And we made the decision, no, it's too big a priority, for the reason you said that it unnerves a lot of investors, which was learning for me because I carried much, much bigger uncertainty in the tobacco world. And yes, much bigger, like life-threatening. This is not life-threatening to us in terms of the life of the company. No fruitions and -- but it's weighed much more heavily here and to some extent, it makes me operate in certain areas with caution that I've always got an eye towards it to make sure we can comfortably pay or do what we need to do, but still grow the business, right? So we made the decision to go forward. So what's that mean? I can only guess right now that the size of this and the pressure on the Irish legislature to clear some of this back tax cases has been a debate in Irish Parliament that this will get fast tracked. I don't know that for a fact, but we look forward to that. And so if it would normally take a year, we think it could be significantly before that. And as soon as I have a date, we'll get that out there. We haven't been assigned a -- when they're going to hear it yet, but I'd like to get to it, and we can argue these cases and get this number. We're confident we can get this number knocked down or if the right opportunity presents itself, and it's the right -- in the best interest of shareholders to find other ways to make it go away. But like I said, it's clear to me that it's weighing on our value, and we need to clear the deck.

Yes. So it's disproportionate to the size of it.

Yes, it is.

In that context, the timing, I think, did I hear you mention before, like it's just like an 18-month type of time horizon? You think we'll have clarity on this? Is that a reasonable way to think -- I know it's hard to pin down times, but...

In my world, I hope it would be faster. Yes, that's a number I threw out there. The only way it's longer than that is if the legal argument is so wrong and it's -- they went to the extreme, and you ended up having to -- there are multiple appeals you could do there. But that's not my hope, my -- I understand what's weighing on the stock, and I'd hope we're rational people and work our way through this and get this thing behind us.

Yes. Yes. Absolutely. And then on the Rx separation, I know that is something that seems to make a lot of sense of the valuation gap, it's extreme. Is that something that is higher in the priorities than maybe it was 6 months ago or a year ago? Is it -- how is that thinking in your, in...

I think of the offer -- I think, it's not that it's higher priority. It's always been a high priority. But I'm always dealt with the fact that I have to look at does it create value? Which is sort of a mathematical model, right? And which I'll talk about here in a second, against the fact that it's a great business that throws off a lot of cash, right? That has been paying for a lot of this investment. So -- and helps protect our investment-grade and a number of other things. So the reason that I talked today to folks that it become a higher priority is because one, more of our earnings have shifted toward consumer, so it's less dilutive. And two, at the valuation levels that we're at, the implied consumer multiple is much lower than it was 6 months ago. So if I'm looking at peers at 20x to 22x or 23x and at Perrigo at $60, $61 a share is -- and you look at the -- take the Rx earnings and apply it to the generic Rx multiples, then the implied consumer multiple was reaching 18 with it, right? So to get the multiple expansion to cover the dilution was a bigger stretch at mid-40s, you do the same -- and at 11 multiple the implied consumer multiple, 13, 14, 13, 14 against 22, 23, you've got...

A different argument.

It's a different argument. That doesn't mean a buyer is going to present itself, but we're always evaluating it, and I'll leave it there. But it is a different amount of circumstances today than it was a year ago. So maybe it's something.

Makes sense. Yes. Well, I think we're just out of time. Really appreciate the dialogue. And obviously, kind of you guys navigated really well through a tough 2020. And looking forward to, hopefully, a more normalized '21. But thanks, again, for joining us today.

Thank you, Chris.