Photon Energy N.V. (P7V.F) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. It's a pleasure to welcome you to the Q3 results conference of Photon Energy. And today, I'm very happy to welcome next to me our new CFO, Stanislav Zeman.

Good morning.

And we will be running you through the presentation. Those of you who have been with us for a while know the structure. So I will run you through the business results for the third quarter. Stanislav will then run you through the financial results for the third quarter and the first 9 months of the year. And at the end, we will have as usual space for your questions, which we will try to answer as well as possible. So we'll start with the electricity generation in our IPP portfolio in terms of size in the third quarter, there was no change in installed capacity. Since the beginning of the year or year-on-year, we have had a reduction of 6.2 megawatt peak which is mainly driven by the disposal of our Australian power plants in the fourth quarter of last year, which had a combined installed capacity of 14.5 megawatt peak. And since then, we have commissioned 3.2 megawatt peak in Romania that was also in the fourth quarter last year. And in the first quarter of this year, we added 3 power plants with a total installed capacity of 5.1 megawatt peak. So in total, a reduction of 6.2 megawatts peak. In terms of electricity generation, we have seen a decline of 9.4% to just shy of 50 gigawatt hours for the third quarter. And of course, that is mainly driven by -- to some extent, driven by the reduction in installed capacity, but also by the nongeneration of some of our Romanian assets, which are shut down for various regulatory reasons. And in the third quarter, they had a total capacity of 37.2 megawatts. So a significant part of our portfolio. So in the light of this, the decline of 9.4% is actually a good result. Of course, overall not satisfactory because we want these assets to generate, but it has due to some extent been compensated by good generation results mainly in Hungary. Speaking of the situation in Romania, so one of the power plants that was in the region of Sarulesti received the license in October. Aiud and Teius we expect to receive the license before the end of the year. So specifically, we hope that by the beginning of December and for the last remaining 2 power plants, Faget 3 and Săhăteni, they are currently undergoing testing, and we expect them to receive the licenses in early Q1, so hopefully by the end of January. So that we step into next year with all our -- January will be relatively weak month in terms of generation. So it will not be complete 100% center. We hope that the availability of our Romanian assets to deliver to the Romanian grid will be very close to 100%, and we will be in a situation where we have these regulatory problems in Romania behind us and all the power plants will be able to generate. And I think when we get to the financial results, you will see the impact of this Romanian situation on our revenues, but also on our EBITDA. So in short, we expect that to be behind us as we enter 2026. So just standing kind of what I said before, the output decline was pretty much linked to our merchant portfolio because all these power plants that have been affected. But also the Australian power plants that we sold were all operating on the basis of merchant model that means we were selling into the electricity market without any government support, but also not on the basis of a power purchase agreement. And as I mentioned before, what helped in the third quarter was the performance of our Hungarian assets, which were 17% above their generation forecast. And the problem with the underperformance came from Romania for the reasons we mentioned before, with the other countries, Czech Republic and Slovakia performing more or less in line with forecast in the third quarter. Looking at the prices we realized in the third quarter, we had a year-on-year decline of 5%. And again, the main driver there has been the situation in Romania, where not only the volume was lower, but also those power plants that were producing, but still have not received the license were impacted by ready to change that limited the revenues we were getting from Transelectrica. So just as a quick reminder, when we originally connected those power plants or connected our first power plant, the PPA that we signed with Transelectrica in the period from commissioning grid connection to receiving the license, we were paid the 90-day rolling average updated daily of the day ahead market price in Romania. And in October last year, that changed into a scheme where our power plants are not paid on weekends, and that's also when we switch them off. And we are also paid in public holidays and during weekdays when we produce and when we sell into the grid, we are subject to a maximum price of EUR 80. That means if the price is below, we get whatever that price is. And if the price is above EUR 80, typically in the morning and evening hours, we're limited to EUR 80. So this regulatory change had an impact on the average price realized by the entire portfolio. In October, it means after the end of the third quarter, we have seen an increase compared to the number achieved in the third quarter. Now in the fourth quarter, we -- and also the first quarter, of course, we will be benefiting from higher prices. And once all our power plants have generation licenses, there will be no cap and of course, full production. Looking at the revenues for the quarter from electricity generation, we achieved EUR 7.8 million, which is a decline of 14% for the reasons just explained. And that represents a 14% decline compared to last year's level. I think that you'll see it in the financial results. So this is, of course, [ minus EUR 1 million ] that is missing in the revenue line, but also [ almost 121 ] at the EBITDA line of course, these revenues or the lack of them flow through straight to the P&L. For the full year, we -- at the end of the third quarter, we stood at EUR 20.1 million for the full year, which represents a decline of 5.7%. So looking at EBITDA for the third quarter, we had -- we saw a decline from EUR 7.3 million achieved last year [ to 6.6%, which is 9.8% ] and this effect we expect not to repeat next year as all our power plants will have the generation license issue in Romania. When we look at engineering and here, we're looking at these numbers are based as with all the other segments are based on purely external revenues. We had a decline in the third quarter compared to the quarter last year to EUR 1.4 million and that is a reflection of, on one hand, the completion of the power plant that we perfected an EPC contract in New Zealand. So the majority of works and the process of invoicing was completed already in the second quarter. And also delay in start of construction of the 34-megawatt EPC project that we're doing in Romania where construction will only start in the first quarter of next year. So a lot of revenues that we were originally expecting to book through this year. And of course, revenue start rolling in when construction starts that is also delayed and therefore, has not been recognized in the third quarter. Where we see -- we also had so far a difficult year is in the C&I segment, where we are active particularly in the Czech and Slovak markets in Europe and the Australian market. And here, we've had another difficult -- a difficult year in the Czech Republic. So this market has been behind our plans. However, we do see now a significant pickup in activity. And I think the main change in the type of projects that we are seeing is that essentially today, almost all C&I projects include batteries. So projects where we only install rooftop behind the meter, sometimes also ground mounted behind the meter installations is becoming a very small minority. And here, we are actually quite satisfied with the pipeline development for 2026. So our expectation is that this segment will show a very dynamic growth and of course, also improve the picture. Looking at EBITDA, again, year-on-year, we have had -- this segment has slipped into a loss. And the main driver here was because of the lower revenues have been cost overruns and also delayed penalties that we were subject to in connection to the project in New Zealand. And so we have been largely paying the price for building a project in a market that is early stage of development. And so a significant part of this loss is about 50% is attributable to this cost overruns and liquidated damages we had depending to customer contractual penalties for delay in connection. In the new energy segment, we have had a year-on-year strong quarter with external revenues actually growing 38% to EUR 8.9 million and that has happened despite the fact that the contracted volume from the auctions with PSE has been significantly lower. So we only had 1/3 of the megawatts contracted with PSE. However, we have been able to use the contracted capacity with our DSR clients in the additional auction, which was held in the second quarter and started as of July 1, which has allowed us to cover a significant part of the gap in terms of revenues year-on-year from the Polish capacity market. The issue that we have had and that we referred to in our half year presentation of delayed revenue from PSE in relation to this additional auction has been resolved in the meantime and all the revenues that we were due to receive have been received from PSE. In terms of energy trading volumes, you can also see a very dynamic development year-on-year. We've more than doubled the volume of electricity that we have traded in the market, sold into the markets. And these markets are Poland, the Czech Republic and Hungary, where we offtake electricity from, in some cases, our own power plants, but also from a growing number of external customers. And as you can also see, as a result, year-on-year, the EBITDA based on external revenues has improved very significantly from less than EUR 200,000 a year ago to over EUR 1.4 million. And we're also making strides in launching ancillary services. So we have completed our connection to the so-called LFC nodes, which obviously the communication channels with transmission system operators, both in Poland and the Czech Republic. So we are working now on completing the last tasks. And so we will start with the work of certifying our first assets that we will want to trade in the ancillary services market in both countries. Operation and maintenance has had another very, very strong quarter where we have been -- and you can see that on a year-on-year comparison, but also through Q3 alone, we've also been able to add additional capacity. So on a year-on-year basis, you can see that we have increased the volume of contracted capacity to which provide technical operation maintenance, asset management, but also cargo, which is a service target on the maintenance of inverters, we've been able to grow that by 34% to just shy of 1.2 gigawatt peak. And on the next graph, you can see which -- how much of the capacity is active, which means what we are invoicing and which are nonactive. And that nonactive part means that we have signed agreements, but we are still in the process of taking over or waiting to take over those assets under our O&M or in some cases, asset management. And so typically, these contracts get signed somewhere between 1 and 3 to 4 months before commissioning of the power plant. But we have some assets or some power plants that have incurred longer delays than that. And so there we are centering the standby mode. But the important thing is the 319 megawatts are contracted and will start generating revenues once we take them over. What I can say is that this positive trend is also continuing in the fourth quarter. And looking at our pipeline, we see a lot of potential for further dynamic growth next year and beyond. And what I would like to highlight is that when we talk about O&M and assets under management, while asset management services, which we currently provide to customers in Hungary, this relates to PV at this point in time. But we now see the first utility scale -- large-scale utility scale batteries coming on grid. And this is also a very strong focus of our attention. So we are expanding our scope to also servicing batteries of all types. But of course, in terms of numbers and volume, utility scale batteries are much larger. And at this point, we expect to sign our first O&M and asset management agreement for a large-scale utility scale battery in one of the markets where we're active, which we then expect to open the door and put us on the map as a provider of these services. So it's essentially a completely new energy asset type, further increasing the potential for growth in our O&M segment. From a technical point of view, we have -- as we have our own teams in all 5 markets where we operate, of course, there's some training required, but we are perfectly capable of also servicing batteries, which in many aspects are simpler than PV plants. And in addition, what also helps us a lot is that in -- so far in Hungary and Romania, but over time, we may extend to other countries, we are also certified to maintain high-voltage equipment very often for large batteries, large PV plants, substations get built, and we can also service those. And that's one of the competitive advantage we have over some of our PV O&M competitors that they don't have this certification. So we can essentially provide a full package to very large energy assets, whether they are PV or batteries. So in terms of external revenues, the growth year-on-year has been 7.7%, which is, to some extent, driven by the fact that in Q3 last year, we had some one-off revenues that have boosted the EUR 1 million revenue last year. So stripping that out, the growth would have been more than that. Talking about the EBITDA of the segment, it is very important looking at this to point out that these numbers are misleading to the extent that as we strip out the revenues that the O&M segment generates from providing O&M services to own portfolio, but all the operating costs remain in these numbers. So another way of looking at it is that in the third quarter of 2025, EUR 432,000 was the cost of maintaining our power plant portfolio in the entire region. The value of that is significant. So when we look at it only within the segment, leave the intergroup revenues in the P&L, this business line is actually profitable and that profitability is also growing and will continue growing. The next segment is Photon Energy Technology where we wholesale key components, which are mainly modules, inverters and batteries. At this point in time, these batteries are mainly residential, but more and more also for C&I applications. So residential is typically 10 to 20 kilowatt hours maximum, sometimes a little bit bigger. C&I, we're in the hundreds of kilowatt hours and sometimes even below -- even above 1 megawatt hour. And as you can see year-on-year, we have -- we would like to just remind that as of October 1 last year, this business line is under new management. So we are comparing the Q3 results from last year on the previous management with the results under new management. So in Q3, you can see that there's been a very significant increase in revenues by nearly 150%. As you can also see that growth has been driven primarily by the volume of modules that we have distributed. So from a few megawatts, we reached almost 40 megawatts in the third quarter. So it's an almost tenfold increase. In the next couple of quarters, we do expect batteries to start playing a more significant role. And in terms of prices because one thing is volume and prices here, we have seen a more or less stable situation in the third quarter. And now the fourth quarter, we are seeing a little bit of a decline. And our understanding is that module prices for next year may start edging up around the second quarter of next year. In terms of profitability in the third quarter, we have booked an EBITDA -- negative EBITDA of EUR 200,000, but it's important to point out that the vast majority of this is related to the disposal -- the final disposal of stock that we've had in our inventory for 1.5 to 2 years and which, of course, today, we have to sell at a book loss. So stripping that out, we would have been more or less around the 0 mark breaking even in the third quarter. In terms of the fourth quarter, we do see -- we do expect a strong finish. Typically, the fourth quarter is strong in the segment. And there's still a few weeks to go, but we are quite confident that we will see revenues that will be at least at the level and most likely higher than what we recorded in the third quarter with a positive effect on profitability in Q3 and in Q4. With this, I'm happy to hand over to Stanislav to walk you through the financial results.

Thank you, Georg. So let's go through the first slide, financial results. So as you can see on this slide, consolidated revenues reached EUR 24.2 million in first quarter 2025, marking a 6.2% year-on-year increase. Revenues from electricity generation totaled EUR 7.7 million, down by 13.8% year-on-year following weaker capacity generation and slightly weaker revenues. Other revenues increased by 19.3% year-on-year to EUR 16.4 million in the third quarter 2025. The most significant growth was recorded in the technology trading business and the new energy division. Under other income, the group recorded proceeds from the sale of the Yadnarie project amounting to EUR 3.6 million. The net impact of Yadnarie sale on EBITDA was EUR 1.4 million in third quarter 2025. EBITDA of EUR 4.4 million in third quarter 2025 compared to EUR 3.8 million in the third quarter '24, up by 18.1% year-on-year, thanks to a positive impact of Yadnarie project sale. Below EBITDA, the group recognized an impairment charge of EUR 1.6 million received primarily to the write-off intangible assets in amount of EUR 1.2 million associated with the software development for the new energy division and additional EUR 1.4 million -- sorry, EUR 0.4 million primarily related to the write-off projects on the development pipeline. Financial expenses amounted to EUR 2.2 million in third quarter '25, representing a 22.2% decline year-on-year related to the underwriting of hedging position in Hungary. The total comprehensive income came at minus EUR 2.2 million in third quarter 2025 compared to a positive roughly EUR 1 million in third quarter 2024. Now I'm going to focus on the balance sheet. As you can see, fixed assets amounted to EUR 220 million compared to EUR 216 million at the end of 2024. This increase of the assets can be primarily explained by the commissioning of the 5.1 megawatt peak in Hungary and the revaluation of the Hungarian assets. Current assets declined to EUR 48.1 million, down by approximately EUR 7.8 million compared to the year-end of 2024 due to reduction in inventories by EUR 2.5 million, other receivables by EUR 5.4 million and assets held for sale by amount of EUR 2 million. These trends were partially offset by higher contract assets by EUR 1.4 million and higher trade receivables by EUR 3 million. Equity. Equity of EUR 55 million and has declined by EUR 4.9 million compared to the level recorded at year-end 2024 due to the negative result in this period. Adjusted equity ratio stood at 35.6%, excluding Hungary and Romanian regulatory changes and 24.2% with carve-out effect. Long-term liabilities stood at EUR 171 million, up EUR 3 million compared to year-end 2024. This increase was driven primarily by reclassification of EUR 5 million EBRD loan, an increase of deferred tax liabilities up to EUR 1.6 million. Current liabilities amounted to roughly EUR 41 million, down by EUR 3.4 million compared to year-end 2024. This is partly due to the abovementioned reclassification of EBRD loan back to long-term liabilities, which was partially offset by higher contracted liabilities by EUR 2.3 million. Okay, cash flow now. Operating cash flow of EUR 2.2 million compared to EUR 6.8 million. Weaker operating cash flow can be partially attributed to higher noncash items, which were booked into the third quarter results as this transaction differential and other noncash items. Investment cash flow of minus EUR 0.4 million as net difference between the acquisition of assets in the amount of EUR 1.2 million and the proceeds from the sale of Yadnarie project in the amount of EUR 0.8 million. Financial cash flow of minus EUR 1.9 million related to interest cost payment while outstanding amount of debt remained stable. Net cash position decreased to EUR 3.7 million. It's all about the cash flow on the last graph on the file. So in the first 9 months of 2025, the reported consolidated revenues amounted to EUR 72 million, which represents about 72% of the lower end of the guidance range. In the same period, EBITDA amounted to EUR 8.5 million, approximately 94.8% of the guided level. Up on the publication of the third quarter 2025 results, management maintains its view that the forecast EBITDA at the lower end of the revenue range remains achievable and at this stage, see no basis for revising the full year guidance.

Thank you. So this concludes our formal presentation. And so we are open to your questions.

And we will -- so while you use the chat box to type your questions, we have received some questions beforehand. So I will start with those and we will then address those that are coming to the chat box afterwards. So the first question is what exactly will the group's liquidity -- how exactly will the group's liquidity situation be stabilized in the short to medium term? So I mean, as you can see for the numbers, liquidity, of course, has been an issue for us. And the action that we are taking is at multiple levels. So one is the sale of assets that for us are noncore and nonstrategic and that mostly relates to some of our development projects. I've seen the first question in the chat box relates to the Domanowo project in Poland, a 20.4-megawatt project, which we are in the process of selling to Uniper. And this project has received -- has reached the ready-to-build stage, and we are currently in the closing process with the buyer. The net impact of the sale to our EBITDA is in the fourth quarter is going to be somewhere in the region of EUR 600,000 to EUR 700,000 because the delay of the project -- getting the project to the ready-to-build stage, which are due to the complexities of developing a PV project or essentially any project in Poland. We have had higher costs, but we also had to reflect the development of prices in the market for PV projects in the Polish market so that the revenues have been adjusted downwards. So it is on one end the success because we got to the final stage, but the economics are somewhat worse than what we are anticipating. But the important thing is we got it across the line, and we are in the process of closing this disposal. But of course, this is only one aspect, one of the projects, the other one that we have already spoken about before is the plan to dispose of our project, [ Turceni ], in Romania. So here, we are at a very advanced stage of negotiations with a potential buyer. And at this stage, we expect to sign a sale agreement before the end of this year. The closing of that is targeted before the end of the first quarter next year, partially because some permits still need to be updated. And secondly, in Romania, this transaction will be subject to regulatory approval, which takes about 2 months. But of course, this is only one side of the action taken. We are also taking a very, very close look at all our business lines and trying to cut costs and streamline our operations as much as possible. So looking at -- this is kind of forward-looking statement, by the end of this year, I think you will see the headcount of the group will have come down somewhere between 10% and 15% compared to the beginning of the year. So we are trying to take costs out where we see that the impact on our revenues or the potential to grow our business is the lowest. And so headcount is one area, but of course, there are other areas and other cost categories that we are taking a very, very close look at. And so definitely for 2026 for our outlook, it's important that first, we want to grow in the business lines we have. And that, of course, is not only related to energy. But -- and here, I'll maybe go to the second question that we received beforehand, which is what specific reasons do you see for the possibility of a turnaround? So while we see growth opportunities in the energy segment, we are -- we believe very strongly that we have now reached a stage in our water business and in particular in relation to PFAS and PFAS technologies that we have developed and continue developing to grow the business in '26 and beyond in a way that will become a material contributor to our revenue but also profitability. And here, one important element is that our in situ nanoremediation technology, which can be applied to PFAS successfully has been -- we received patents for the technology in China and Japan. And we've also been notified that we will receive the patent in Europe, still waiting for response from patent offices in the other jurisdictions where we apply. And we've also made significant improvements in relation to our filter technology to remove PFAS. I think we spoke before already about the implementation of a PFAS filtration unit with an industrial customer in the Czech Republic at the beginning of this year. So that system works perfectly. The same customer actually has for another PFAS issue, they had a second container. And we are also further improving the capabilities of this filtration unit and that's -- at this point, I would like to say that there may be some public news coming shortly on what we're able to do with our filtration unit. So we see a lot of potential and also the right conditions to grow this business very, very dynamically. Next question, how we intend to prevent the equity ratio from falling below the covenant threshold, which would trigger a right of termination for the bond? Of course, a key question. And here, of course, it is important to point out that in the ratio that we published, you can also see we have in the covenant carve-out to adjust for the impact of regulatory changes on our business. And these situations have materialized both in Hungary to a lesser extent and to a most exterior extent in Romania. So adjusting for the impact and the impact is double, we have generated fewer revenues this year, but of course, also has an impact on the value or the carrying value of our portfolio in that given country. So I mean that we are still above the 25% threshold. However, of course, we are comfortably close. And we are -- so there are several -- first of all, we're trying to, of course, get the best possible fourth quarter in our operating businesses. We will have a positive impact from the Domanowo transaction. We, as I said before, expect to sign one other disposal before the end of the quarter, which should also have a positive impact. But we're also looking at some other measures to -- another important area is, of course, the valuation of our assets, the carrying value, which is established on the basis of the discounted cash flow, of course, the interest rate level and the energy price futures play an important role. Here, we have seen a downward trend in interest rates, which had a positive impact on the discount rate, but we also see a strong outlook for next year and beyond for energy prices. So we believe that there may be a positive impact from the valuation of our power plants, but we're also looking at some other options, which at this point, we cannot be more specific on. Needless to say, we are fully aware that this equity ratio is a key metric. We understand what the consequences would be if we fall short of staying within the conditions of the covenant and the management attention is directed at making sure this is not going to materialize. The next question relates to our dividend payout policy where we have been consistent in communicating that we do not plan to pay out dividends in the medium term. So here a question by the investor is what the definition of medium term is. Well, I think it's obviously at this point in time, the paying out dividend is not really possible, first of all, based on our financial results, also the covenant that we have in our bond. And at this point in time, we need to redirect all the cash that we generate from our operating business and the disposal of noncore assets to build our business. And if someone is left at this point in time, we use it to reduce our leverage. And here, I get to the last question we received beforehand, which is how we plan to refinance our bonds and whether we are planning to repurchase bonds in the market? So that relates to the last statement I made that any free cash would be used -- will be used to reduce our financial leverage. And clearly, given current market prices, repurchase of bonds is the best option to do so as those who've followed us know we have done so. Over the last 24 months, we have bought back around 1 million of nominal. And if cash situation allows it, we will, of course, continue doing so. And of course, the purchase and retirement of our bonds at below par also has a positive impact initially on our financial results and then, of course, also directly on our equity and it decreases our interest payments going forward. So, depending on the liquidity situation, this is, of course, on our cards, and we will execute on that. And in relation to the first part of the question, which is how we plan to refinance our bonds? Well, the first part of that strategy is for sure to have a significantly better financial performance in 2026, then continue with that trend for 2027. And we will start, let's say, a more formal and more focused process on -- deep diving on the options that we have across public and private markets, but also, of course, bank financing after the audit of the 2025 results of the group. So, actually, this weekend is exactly -- it will be exactly essentially 2 years away from maturity, which is not a lot of time. So, we are understanding that everything will take time to organize. But the most important thing now is to improve the financial position and financial performance of the company and of course, not just a little bit but drastically. So, all efforts are now focused on laying the foundations for an excellent 2026. I will now address the questions that came from you through the chatbot. So, the first question related to the capital gain or the positive impact of the sale of the Domanowo project, which I think I answered already. The second question is, why is there the need to [ write off ] New Energy software? Well, in our business, we are using a lot software and a lot of that has been developed in-house and some of the applications are targeted at specific aspects of our business and not all of them are fully functional, so we see that. But there's a better solution and let's say fully functional, when we find that there are softwares that are -- that have been developed externally, we sometimes decided to switch. And then, of course, we have to write off those capitalized development costs. So, we have done a deep dive during this year on all the product development projects that we've had and sometimes, of course, it also comes from the discontinuation of some development work. So, we have what I would call -- we're talking about tens of projects that are separately tracked that have their budgets, have the targets. I think it's not completely uncommon in software development that not all efforts work out. So, we have done a very detailed deep dive on this during this year and have essentially what I would refer to as clean house and make sure that we only carry and of course, our in-house go first on anyway, but we have done this exercise where it's [indiscernible] identify those software that we will continue carrying on our balance sheet and which need to be written down. So, it is [indiscernible] a significant number, it is a one-off. We don't -- at this point in time, we don't expect any further need to write off additional software at the end of the year. And we make sure that we are essentially compliant with the rules and the logic of carrying capitalized intangibles on the balance sheet. Well, next question is that, we have reached the covenants before the carve-out. How will you address that? Well, so before the carve-out or the effect of the carve-out that is correct. And I think I won't be repeating myself. So, first of all, we expect operationally a good fourth quarter. We have, for sure, won most likely 2 transactions and the second one, which would be -- certainly it would have a more significant impact on our financial results. There, most likely, it will be a capital gain and not contribute to EBITDA. But of course, has the same effect on our equity position. Of course, buying back some of our bonds is also an option that we are evaluating. And if that's possible, we will do that. And then, as I said before, there are some other options that we are evaluating, but we cannot disclose at this point in time. The next question is, what is your liquid assets, financial hard assets, how easy can they be materialized? So, what we refer to as liquid assets are cash or equivalents. So, these are -- I think when you look at our balance sheet, what you will see is that we have available cash and then also restricted cash, restricted cash is essentially all of it or most of it is, about USD 1 million is collateral for bank guarantees, but the rest is our reserve accounts that we have set up and filled as part of our project financing. And over time, we are able to add on some of that, which is actually what happened in the transaction with K&H Bank. The financing arrangement with [indiscernible] of the EUR 5 million cash proceeds, EUR 750,000 were actually the unlocking of a reserve account. So, when you look at the cash position, it's much bigger. But restricted cash, of course, is what it means, is what it says, but all the rest is essentially holdings in financial institutions. So money in accounts, and therefore available. The next question is, will the impairment of intangibles indicate the potential decline of the New Energy segment as such and potentially write-off of other intangibles, including goodwill? Well, in the audit, we -- just as we have done since we acquired, but of course, every year, there is -- one of the key discussion points with auditors is impairment testing of intangibles, which partially relates to our portfolio of generating power plants, and of course, all the goodwill that has arisen from the acquisition of Lerta. And here, an important element is the value of the business based on its opportunities going forward. And at this point in time, we feel confident that we will be able to sustain and defend the valuation of the goodwill that relates to the acquisition of Lerta. So, the impairment as such relates to software. And as I mentioned before, it's an impairment within the business division. And we have tried very hard to adhere to the guiding principles that any software or any project that has not been completed and for example, it doesn't make sense to complete or there are better options available either in-house or -- so even if we replace a software with a new or different software, the old one needs to be impaired. And in some cases, of course, as the market develops, sometimes external software is better than what we have developed, let's say, 2 or 3 years ago. And if it's not amortized yet, then it needs to be written off. So, this is what we did, and I think we did it thoroughly. The next question is what is our minimum liquidity level to operate? Well, it is probably quite a difficult question to answer. I assume it probably relates to the cash level that is involved in the cash flow statement in our presentation. But I would put this way, of course, a cash balance that will be twice as high would be a lot more comfortable. So -- and disposal of the projects we mentioned and actually what we have not referred to yet in terms of cash in, we are still working on the refinancing of our 5 Romanian power plants and linked to that also the project financing of another 42 megawatts that we are ready to build in the Romanian market. And this is something we also are working hard towards to close still before the end of the fourth quarter. So that will -- so there we have a lot of own funds trapped or tied up. And we expect -- so as things stand today with that refinancing of approximately 20 megawatts of operating plants in Romania, we expect to be able to repay external financing that relates to that, and we expect to generate about EUR 3.5 million of free cash usable for our general purposes. And that alone should get us to the point that I was referring to before, about double the level of the cash that you have seen in the presentation. So, next question is, current trade payables significantly exceed current trade receivables considering also regular bank loans repayments and low balance of cash, lower revenues, how do you want to repay all the upcoming short-term liabilities? Well, we are -- our businesses are -- some of them are -- most of them are generating cash, firstly. Secondly, we expect some cash from the refinancing. I was just referring to the sale of projects. So, it is a situation that is definitely more and more complicated than in the past. But at this point in time, we are confident that -- well, we have been able to manage and that we will continue to manage the working capital management of our group across all business lines. The next question is, should we be buying bonds from the market since their prices are low? Well, I don't think that we are -- it's a good idea for us to provide investment advice. So, this question we cannot answer. The next question is, is the current share valuation, correct? It is very low. Yes, we are, of course, aware of this, probably we're a significant shareholder in the company, and therefore, absolutely motivated to make sure that this picture changes as quickly as possible. So, the next question is that if we wrote off EUR 1.6 million from intangibles and the balance of intangibles at the end of Q3 compared to the end of '24 has not changed that much, what else is in there? Have we activated anything else which compensated the write-off. So, the short answer to this is yes. Of course, we continue developing and upgrading the systems we're using mostly in the New Energy division. So, yes, we continue spending on the development of software that we use in our business. One area, for example, is the software, but also the systems required to provide ancillary services to the TSOs. And here, we're working on this simultaneously in Poland, in the Czech Republic and Hungary. So there, for example, we have to establish physical connections, server connections and that is actually also included in what we capitalized and then amortized over time as we use the software. And in case where we discontinue using the software, we write it off. So yes, that write-off has been more or less compensated by further capitalized development of software/solutions. The next question is, what is the current status of the project in South Africa? And here, what we can say is that we continue developing the project. We have commenced the EIA process. And we are currently fine-tuning the final setup of the project. I think what we can say at this point is that it will also include traditional PV and battery systems. And we're currently fine-tuning the final setup of that so that we can also update our grid connection conditions with the DSO and proceed with the development and look at doing the build. So, I guess here we will, at the appropriate time, then make an official announcement or update you either through our monthly reports or the quarterly reports. So, the project is progressing, and we still work on assumption that the project will be ready to build next year. And so, it means obtaining all permits. I think we have clearly stated in the past that this is a project that where the lead role in executing it will be someone else. We see our role here as kind of a developer, and we expect to basically make money on this project from the sale of this project to a [ final investment ]. The next question is, it's more like a wish that please remember that many people have invested and believe that the company will eventually overcome the impasse. Well, I see that as a wish of support for which I thank. And all I can say is that we're highly motivated to do exactly that. And I believe that over the last 6 to 9 months, we've put a lot of thought into how to reorganize ourselves, refocus, streamline processes. So that is something ongoing. As I mentioned at the beginning, we have looked into many areas where to cut costs. And of course, it's an ongoing and never-ending process. And that is something -- so we are really putting effort into being ready for a much stronger 2026. The next question is, after the sale of Yadnarie, what is the support for valuation of RayGen investment in the balance sheet? Well, here it's important to point out, actually I'm very happy that this question was asked in this forum. Our investment in RayGen as a company and also the option agreement we have for bringing additional projects in the future is unrelated to the -- or loosely related to the project that we developed in Yadnarie and have sold to AGL, which is also a shareholder. So, in RayGen itself, our shareholding is currently slightly above 5%, much bigger or larger investors both in terms of their shareholding in the company, but also their own size. And after the last financing round, the largest -- most important investor is SLB, formerly known as Schlumberger, so the oil and gas services firm, which has also entered into a strategic technology development agreement with RayGen and is looking at making the system more efficient, but also focusing on finding new applications to the technology. So, what we have been developing in Yadnarie, also in South Africa and what we've mostly been talking about is essentially the full scale of a utility scale RayGen plant, which has the generation part and the storage part -- but there are potential applications only for the development part. So we know that the projects are being developed, which focus on only capturing the heat, of course producing electricity, but capturing the heat from the modules and using that -- supplying that to an industrial offtaker or even using the heat to generate cold and cool data centers for one, I don't know, specified project -- which, of course, then only uses one part of the overall package that RayGen has developed. So, it does not include the storage part. And from our point of view, so we are an investor in the company, definitely not the most important one at this point. So SLB and AGL as an investor into the RayGen plant, of course, now are much more important for the further development of RayGen. On the other hand, the Yadnarie project has been -- is extremely important for RayGen as a company because it is much bigger than the pilot plant that was commissioned in Carwarp. And it also shows that a major energy producer, AGL is the largest energy producer in Australia, is willing to invest into this asset because they are convinced that the advantages of this technical setup, outruns the investment. So, I would say for the -- what you would otherwise call bankability, or the Yadnarie project has definitely been or is extremely important for RayGen as a company. Our role going forward will be to identify suitable locations, find permits, go through the permitting process and create projects that will be using the RayGen technology, which then again will help RayGen in commercializing its technology. Of course, we are not the only developer that is trying to develop projects for the RayGen technology. RayGen has, I would say, it's eyes on projects across the world, working with different partners, also in very close cooperation with some of its key shareholders. So, I think what we've done is with Yadnarie, we have provided an important anchor project for the next stage of development. Going forward, we will probably bring more projects to the table, but there will be hopefully many, many more, which then should underpin the value of our investment in RayGen. But these are, again, two separate things. And therefore, the value of our investment in RayGen is loosely linked to Yadnarie because it's an important milestone. But longer term, it will be a function of how many Yadnarie-type projects that will be in the world that will be using the RayGen technology. And we will try to contribute to that, but others will have to do so as well. The next question is, whether we have considered using Chinese suppliers for our projects to reduce CapEx also in terms of transformers, switch gears, pads, power generation equipment. If so, what is your experience? Well, I think since we have started our business 18 years ago, we have not used any -- in our own projects, not any non-Chinese modules. So, even back when Chinese were dominating the -- maybe I think some Taiwanese, but essentially already at that time, module manufacturing in Europe was insignificant. What has changed since then is that the Chinese of course become dominant in inverters. So, we still remember the time when SMA was the gold standard. Now it's a small -- comparatively small struggling competitor to Huawei and Sungrow some of the other names. And I think the same applies to batteries. So, I would say for these 3 categories, there is essentially no alternative, no viable alternative to Chinese products. With switchgear and transformers, it is a different story. There, we have so far relied on European producers. And we're talking about the whole transformers, the whole switchgear, of course, components, I'm sure are coming -- have been coming from China for a while now. So, what we do see, and I think it's a matter of the last year or 2 that some of these Chinese manufacturers are also now trying to gain, I would say, for now market share, to say, gain control, but gain market share in relation to transformers and switchgear. And here -- I mean, here it becomes a lot more sensitive because modules and inverters and batteries are more or less standardized products, but transformers and switchgear have to be compliant with local regulations as we are building in 7 countries, those regulations, even if they're only EU members, they're still very -- they differ. And of course -- so transformers and switchgear are not necessarily the same type of commodity product as modules, batteries and inverters are. So here, we definitely take a cautious approach. I mean we do see that the offers we are getting are below what we have to pay from a local supplier. But here -- that's an area we just cannot make a mistake. I mean ordering a transformer that is not compliant and then you have to order another one or has that redone can cause a lot of damage. And if only it delays, for example, the commissioning of a power plant and whether it's ours or that of the client that leads to contractual penalties, almost doesn't matter. So, in other words, just to save 10%, 15% on the transformer, you have to be 100% sure that that equipment is usable and compliant and will not lead to this kind of troubles which -- the consequences are a huge multiple of what we're expected to save. So, I hope that was a good answer to that question. And I guess -- well, I believe that this was the last question. Last question is, what are the financial effects of the Pukenui project for the company. So, well, I think we -- in the quarter report, you see we've made a description. In short, it has been below our expectations. So, we have had cost overruns. So, the margin -- the gross margin on the project was materially lower than what we expected. And unfortunately, we have incurred delay, which led to liquidated damages, so that overall, the project has been loss-making for us. So, a rather painful experience. I would say, already a long list of lessons learned, some of them related to how the project has been managed in the light of this project has been executed in the market that is still at the very beginning. So, we have also signed up to provide O&M services to this power plant for the next 2 years. And the Pukenui project is, I think, the fourth or the fifth utility scale PV plant in the country. Now a lot more is getting built. The pipelines are quite significant. But it also means that the whole ecosystem in New Zealand is still on a relatively steep learning curve. I mean in some cases, I would say, know-how could be imported from Australia, which, of course, is a mature solar market. For the DSOs, it was for the first time some of the equipment manufacturers. So, some of the cost overrun and delay is also attributable to the fact that the whole market is still learning. And perfect world, you have lots of time buffers to absorb that, which essentially we ran out of, on this specific project. Okay, the last -- the next question is how many -- how the company is going to address the green bond issue in 2 years from now? So, well, I think I addressed it already, but I'm happy to repeat. So, our #1 priority short term is to set the stage, and that's what we're working on, set the stage for a significantly improved performance next year. And that includes cost savings, some of them HR, but also other types of costs; a strong focus on winning more business, executing the business lines that so far have not been that active and that can bring a lot more to the table. That includes Water and Remediation, which will play a more significant role next year. There's definitely more business we will be able to do in EPC, whether that's utility scale behind the meter, our method will be -- we hope for growth from those areas. Operations and maintenance is a business that can -- as it grows, will start performing very strongly because the operating leverage in this business is very strong. And I also mentioned that we have a completely new category of assets to take care of in the form of battery systems. And -- so, improving business and financial performance is the basis. And we will -- once we will pass the audit and publish our results, the due date for that is the 30th of April next year. We will deep dive on our options and strategic possibilities to refinance the bond and develop a, I would say, multiprong strategy to start executing on. And that will cover, as I mentioned before, bank financing, capital markets. Of course, with our current bond price performance, the bond market, at least in Germany will be rather difficult. But we believe that there are multiple pathways available, and we will start working on developing a clear strategy. And I think as we make progress in this, we will also make the corresponding announcements to the market. The next question is, whether the impact of O&M on finance right now is negligible? How much it would have to rise to have a meaningful impact on the finance as well? Yes and no. I mean, O&M, and let's not forget, not having asset management services is a business that has high operating leverage. That means you have certain systems, you have a number of technicians, which, of course, you -- as you take on more assets, you keep growing. But the marginal profitability of new assets to take under management is actually going up. And asset management, which is a relatively new service for us is actually particularly lucrative because it's an office job and leveraging the experience we have gained from managing our own assets in the various countries. So, it is a business that as it grows, we expect its profitability to go up dramatically. At the moment, our strongest market is Hungary, both in terms of megawatts under management and also profitability. And if you ask me this question a year or 2 ago, I would have said the target achievable margin for our O&M division is about 20%, maybe 25% EBITDA margin. But we've seen in Hungary that it's possible to do more in the right set of circumstances. So, I believe that there's a lot of runway for us still to grow this business strongly in the 5 countries that we're focusing on. And of course, we can also -- I would not exclude that at some point in time, we would add other countries, whether there would be a, let's call it, a westward move to maybe address the German market, which, of course, is very mature. There's a huge installed capacity, but also quite a lot of competition or an expansion into one of the neighboring markets in Southern Eastern Europe. And this is just an example. I mean, for example, Bulgaria is a market where a lot gets built. It's right next to Romania. So, such an expansion is definitely something that if we had, for example, an interested existing client who would ask us to take care of their assets there. It's definitely something we would very strongly consider and then use it as a basis to win additional clients and business in that country. What we will not do is just go to any market because it looks like a good idea it's nice to have a flag there. But it's not -- the customer base that we have built and continue building in the region as the only regional O&M player is, I think, quite impressive. So, it is literally the household names of institutional investors and IPPs that invest into the region from outside. Of course, we also have local customers. But I would say it's the who's who that invest in the region. And with some of these customers, we have -- we take care of assets in 2 or even 3 countries now. So they really seem to like the fact that there's one telephone number they call, the same contact persons to discuss the Polish, Hungarian and Romanian assets. And I think that still has a lot of runway to go. And I would not exclude that we would follow the call of one of those investors into a new geography. That is not too far away. And to conclude my answer, I firmly believe that going forward, it will have a much more significant impact on our revenues, but mostly also EBITDA than what we have seen so far. Next question is the number of projects under development seems to get smaller and smaller. Can you elaborate on that? Is there no more opportunities in investment for now? Or is this caused by not enough capital to engage? It's actually both. Clearly, we have been investing quite strongly into developing projects in the past. But I think it's important to bear in mind that things have changed very fundamentally. And the economics of a PV plant and the project is just the -- kind of the stage before, is different than what it was before. There's essentially with a few exceptions, there is a lot support schemes. So, any major renewable energy project and it's not only PV, but can be wind, can be biogas today has to rely on the market price of electricity, which, of course, can come in the form of power purchase agreement, but definitely if the revenue model is linked to the market price. And given where market prices are today, the margins are same but the investment costs on PV have come down a lot, but you have to be really -- to get to the return levels that you need, you have to be -- you have to know what you're doing and understand also the energy markets, which I think overall, we do. But even then, the kind of excess returns above our cost of capital or the cost of capital at the project level is very hard to do. And then the question is, is it actually worth the effort? Is it worth the risk? And when you develop projects, of course, you have also time delays, some projects we have worn off, so it's write-offs. And here, I think, our approach that we focus more on providing services to other people's assets at any stage of the lifetime and that would include EPC, that would include O&M, that would include asset management, offtake is ultimately a lower risk and significantly less capital intensive strategy. As I mentioned before, we still have 42 megawatts that we want to build in Romania for which we hope to close the project financing. But I would say our appetite, to some extent, it is driven by our limitations, but also sensitive appetite for developing PV, but even hybrid projects is somewhat in Europe. We are, of course, developing the big project in South Africa. It is a country that has a lot of [ irradiations ]. It has a shortage of energy, relatively high energy prices. So, essentially all the hallmarks and all the ingredients that a company like ourselves would like to see. And also now we see that there are more investors coming into the market. The banks are ready to finance projects even on a relatively long-term basis and the numbers simply [ speak up ]. So, I would say from that point of view and develop the projects is a lot cheaper than in Europe. So, which does not mean that we're not going to enter 15 more countries and trying to do the same, but South Africa, where we have now been on the ground for 2.5, almost 3 years now is definitely a market where we will try to leverage our experience, including project development and try to create value. But coming back to Europe and particularly the CEE region, development project has become very painful. So, it's something that I think we should now focus our attention on. And that's where the pivot to put us in a position to provide a long list of services to investors that do create assets has [indiscernible]. Clearly, we need to improve the execution of that strategy and, once again, this is currently our main focus. So, with no more questions coming in, I would like to thank you for your attention and wish you a great day and we will see you again in the second half of February when we're presenting our Q4 and full year unaudited numbers. So, thank you very much, and have a great day. Thank you. Bye-bye.