Physitrack PLC (PTRK) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, everybody. Welcome to Sheffield in Yorkshire in England. I'm very happy to be here today to be joined by Mr. Harry Bliss, the CEO and Co-Founder of Champion Health; and my CFO, Charlotte Goodwin. We're here to talk about this very exciting news that we released on Friday that we are joining forces with Champion Health, and we're here today to talk you through that. I'll give you a little introduction talking about some of the acquisition rationale. I'll hand over to Harry to introduce Champion, very, very excited about that. And Charlotte will walk us through some financials. And finally, I will look at the calendar ahead for what we can expect. So let me just kick this off. We are extremely excited about this because, as you know, over the last few quarters we've been talking about our holistic wellness ecosystem Access. This is the crown achievement in that. And we really feel that this is an amazing opportunity for us to create a world-leading product within the holistic well-being space. Now a few soundbites on Champion Health here to kick things off. Champion, our B2B Software-as-a- Service platform, very, very high degree of recurring revenue, which is common for Software-as- a Service was founded in 2018 by Harry. And Champion empowers employee holistic well-being using data, insight and action and algorithmic methodology to understanding the needs what an employee -- a human needs to be happier, healthier and more productive professionally and privately, very, very nicely, you wrapped into an amazing user interface that you've seen a little taste of here on interaction. Here, we feel that we are very well positioned to meet new trends here in digital in that consumers want one simple amazing place to go with all their needs in well-being. They don't want to mix and match several apps and several solutions in this. They also want something that's hyper-personalized. Champion solves that very, very elegantly in their algorithmic way of establishing exactly what an end user -- what a consumer needs for this day-to-day journey in well-being. Cutting-edge technology, Harry will talk a little bit more about that in a moment. But the target market for Champion right now are a little bit larger companies with 500-plus employee ecosystems. What we are doing similar to what we did with Physitrack, we'll be bifurcating that into enterprise, where they are now with the larger customers will be entering the small to midsized enterprise space over time with a self-service version of Champion, so we can scale that very nicely and rapidly across our target regions. And down the line, we have the potential to do this in the B2C space, which will be incredibly exciting for us. Couple of soundbites on the financial performance at the bottom, but Charlotte will give you some more details on that shortly. So majorly for us, this is really what wraps up our journey here within the Access ecosystem. And so it's a comprehensive product now at this point. And it's the most important acquisition to date because of the way that we can now work with the end user, a very, very elegant, very high-tech, algorithmically driven way. So it's the final piece of the puzzle for us -- for Access. And so therefore, it's a very big day for us here today. And as we hinted to earlier -- in earlier quarters, being able to address new customer segments and to accelerate with end-user revenue dynamics, very, very important, and of course, down the line going into the B2C market that Champion makes that possible and the work starts now on that. And so we are pursuing that full integration with the Access ecosystem and Champion both Champion in itself on a standalone basis. They have some amazing revenue streams and then an amazing growth trajectory, having grown already 300% just since the end of last year. And so this really fast tags growth for us in this segment. And we are doing everything that we can to put more rocket fuel in the tank of Champion Health and the Access ecosystem going forward. So very, very nice acceleration on the books in the U.K., in the Nordics and Germany, in North America as well. And we can wait to get started. And just a little reminder on that holistic ecosystem with -- or having the full range of what you can need inside of a holistic wellness journey starting with the biometric testing and the coaching piece designed by Fysiotest, very important front end of that. Well now, who's bought agreements and work with major, major German industrials. Examples of that is Tesla, the Gigafactory outside of Berlin are great customers of [ Wellness ] for example. Champion, very much that's holistic, emotional well-being, physical well-being journey, fits in perfectly here. Rehabplus as you've seen about their virtual-first rehab piece and are wrapping everything in the Champion's beautiful methodology for data allowances for the leaders to draw conclusions about their corporate ecosystem. So this is really catering to a rapidly accelerating market that's moving more money into digital for well-being. It's becoming more proactive rather than reactive and its hyper-personalized today, when you use an app, you want that app to be set up for you and your needs. That's actually quite hard to do, but Champion has found an amazing way to just do that. Now before those Champion, there wasn't really a solution for this. And if you also take into account that we are adding that human touch into that biometric testing, the coaching, the rehab, both on a physical level and an emotional well-being level that makes this 100% unique. So coming together today is really a big step. It's a big step for us, and I think it's a big step for the market as well. But now for me, I'm going to hand over to Harry now, so that he can introduce this amazing company that he and his co-founder, Ricky, have built over the last few years. So over to you, Harry.

Thank you, Henrik. And good morning, good afternoon, good evening from your joining really excites us. So present to you a bit more about Champion and where we're heading. But before we do that, where I always love to start is the why behind Champion for me and for our team. So as Henrik mentioned, in 2018, I founded Champion Health with the vision of making well-being more inclusive, more accessible and more engaging to everyone and empowering people with choice rather than having 1 app that does look at 1 or 2 areas of well-being, we can do it all in one unified place to make healthier -- easier for everyone. Now I work at the largest health and well-being provider previously, and that's where I looked at 1 or 2 areas of well-being. And that's the big focus for us. So we were founded with a team of around 50 to 60 academics and health experts. And that's one really important thing is that everything is evidence-based. But the area that I locked in was how to run and grow business from the operational side back in 2018. So I approached a friend of mine who is the youngest director on the FTSE 100 at that time working for a global wealth management company. And my friend and mentor James was someone that was very successful inside his career that had an amazing family life as well, friendship group beyond that, too. Now the reason why I share with you this story is that James was someone that didn't have the time, but he found the time to invest into me, and we wouldn't be working with global banks through to one of the world's largest law firms, if it wasn't for James' support. Now James lived with positive mental well-being throughout his lifetime. His career has come from strength to strength and he had an amazing family, as I've mentioned. But tragically, 6 months into Champion's journey, my friend and mentor, James, ended up taking his own life following a short bounce of stress. Now this is the fire in my belly that will never leave. This is the fire in my team's belly as well as Champion Health. And the business turned from something that I wanted to work to something that I needed to work because that's the place that I always love to start and what I'd love to take you through is how we support people like James whilst they're well and whilst they're thriving, but how we also support people like James that may be struggling and how we can get them into services faster and earlier than before to make a life-changing app. So, the first thing I'd love to touch upon is the general market when it comes to well-being at the moment, and it's so noisy when it comes to health and well-being. There are over 400,000 health apps on the App Store on iOS and Android. Again, they look at 1 or 2 areas of well-being. They're highly reactive, as you can see on the left hand of the screen. They're clunky to navigate. They're low usage often, especially in the B2B SaaS health care system and also it lacks data for leaderships. The HR managers don't really know where to focus. Is it financial well-being with the increase of cost of living? Is it actually mental health and anxiety? Or is it something else around back pain, for example? That's where we can start to make data-driven decisions to support the most important asset that we have within our organizations. And that, of course, is our people. So Champion Health is a really exciting proposition. I'm going to take you through today, and we'll take you through where we're going to get to in the next few years as well. So the well-being market isn't slowing down. It's doing exactly the opposite. Now COVID did accelerate the market very quickly, but it's no signs of that slowing down. The compound annual growth rate is estimated to grow just below 15%, so 14.8% across the next few years. As you can see, in 2019, compared to [ 2026 ], there is huge growth within here. So a big opportunity, and we want to be leaders within this space. So introducing to you, The Netflix of Well-being. One of the things that Netflix does so well is bring everything together, from your documentaries through to your sitcoms. It might even be pathetic from my example. And this is exactly what we want to do when it comes to health and well-being. So one platform for all areas of well-being. As Henrik mentioned, a huge opportunity for us to extend our impact being part of the Access ecosystem. Now the big thing within here is all hyper-personalized, as we've mentioned is all our algorithmic, and the gross margins are very high. So huge scaling opportunities, not just in the U.K., where we have a very strong foothold at the moment, but globally as well. And that's something that really excites me to be able to extend our impact. Now when we look at the Netflix and well-being, what we're looking to do, our vision is to become a global leader within this space. We're looking to get it translated. I'm going to talk a little bit more through how that's going to happen and when that's going to happen. Our target market traditionally is plus 500 employee organizations, but we're going to be moving into the SME space. We're going to be looking at B2C as well. And so we can take on the likes of Calm and Headspace for example, going forward. At the moment, we're a leading U.K. health tech company. But again, that global position is something that really excites me. And the market outlook, there's no signs of this slowing down. There are increased budgets within HR, but also I know many people that can benefit from Champion Health and why the society as well. And you can see some of the organizations that we're working with from the NHS through to one of the world's largest law firms -- trough to e of the world's largest banks, and we've got a really exciting pipeline that I can't wait to share with you going forward. So a little bit about the platform. One big area is we look to empower people through choice. And so again, if you're interested in exercise but not nutrition, we will personalize that to you. If you also want a new parent, for example, we'll personalize that to you. If you're someone that's leading up to retirement. Everything will be tailored to you, your needs, your wants and your unique challenges. Now we also look to utilize research from the likes of University of Cambridge, the University of Oxford, LSE, for example, and we've also been inspired by incredible tech companies such as Spotify, Apple, Netflix, that make things easy, make things fun and make things personalized, and that's what's lacking in the well-being space at the moment. So introducing to you the employee platform, first of all. So this is where you go through a 15-minute online health assessment, looks at all areas of well-being, the algorithms in the back-end system and produce well-being action plans that are tailored to your needs. We then have workouts with Olympians, Paralympians, all the way through to Yoga Parties. So again, we're covering all areas within just workouts and exercise. You've then got all of your recipes built by a Tottenham Hotspur, nutritionist, for those of you who follow football, through to all of your mindfulness, sleep stories, master classes, I can keep going on and on, or then again, one tailored ecosystem to you as the end user. The second area that we really look to drive homes and the data-driven decisions for leaders. That's where you have all of your trend data to see impact, see the ROI of what you're investing in. You can also start to determine trends. And so is it mental health getting better? Is it getting worse at the moment? And we can start to then build well-being strategies off the back of that. We also support organizations with campaigns and communications. So this week marks Mental Health Awareness Week, for example. So we're doing loans to support global organizations going forward with supporting again the most important assets. Now when we compare to the likes of Headspace and Calm, who have valuations of $3 billion and $2 billion, respectively, you can then start to see how in-depth Champion Health is and how big this opportunity is with Henrik, Charlotte and the rest of the team. So when we look at Headspace, wonderful platform, same with Calm, they only look at mindfulness and sleep stories and maybe some workouts a little bit of learning within that. When we start to consider Champion Health, you've got all of your assessments and reporting. You've got friends and family access to every single employee can share the platform and no additional charge with 3 friends and family members. You've got nutrition plans, you've got personalized experience, it's inclusive to everyone, no matter your ability or disability. You've got all of your data-driven decisions and we can keep going on and on and on in terms of what Champion can do for you and for your people as well. And the big thing before I hand over to my new boss, is innovation never stops at Champion Health. I've got my co-founder behind me at the moment, and that's one of the most important things for us is that we continue to grow, continue to develop, so we achieve this personal mission that's very personal to us. We've actually achieved half of what we set out to be already, and we're only halfway through Q2 in 2022. And so the mobile app has just launched friends and family access globalized content. We're also looking at the kids market, which is a huge market to support the next-generation of the workforce, but also chunking students to support colleges and universities again with their students' mental well-being. And as Henrik mentioned, finally, the direct-to-consumer offering that could be huge within this opportunity. So thank you for taking the time out. Really excited to hopefully go along this journey with you going forward, and I'll hand over to Charlotte now.

Thank you very much, Harry. So a quick overview here of the numbers. To give you an idea of size, Champion Health ended April with a revenue run rate of just over EUR 400,000 and that revenue is almost all subscription, and over 95% of it being derived from subscription revenue. The revenue dynamic here is slightly different to our Physitrack SaaS platform. So although we are paid by the employer, our revenue is based on a per user -- end user, so per employee. And so we can see quite large contracts in the future of Champion. Current contract value is just over EUR 12,000, as you can see. But we've seen that expand and certainly, in the last few weeks, we've agreed to the contracts much larger than the average value. On the margin side, because it is an automated tech-driven platform we do see margin dynamics very similar to our Physitrack's SaaS platform. So even at this very early stage, EBITDA margin is currently at about 30% mark, and we expect Champion to move toward Physitrack's goal of 40% to 45% very quickly in the next couple of years. On the deal structure here, so upfront consideration of GBP 2.5 million with a further potential earn-out of GBP 7.9 million, and that's based on restricting revenue targets with the profit underpin built in. The other piece to pull out here is that we are, so we can continue to invest in opportunities that we think will give us a good return on those investments. We are in advanced talks with banks about putting in a facility at around the GBP 5 million mark. So that's all for me. I'll hand back to Henrik, who will take you through the final pieces and a bit of Q&A.

Thank you, guys. Really, really nice. Very exciting now. So what's up ahead before we go into the Q&A. So we closed the deal on Friday. But that, in fact, was just the beginning of this journey. So many exciting things ahead. And in fact, we also started early. So we've already been looking at operational integrations, development team, acceleration and obviously, the commercial side of things. And so we are already pushing this out, as you can see on today's date, the U.K., Nordics, Germany looking at multinationals with English as the first language, leveraging off of all that fantastic business development work as done by Physitrack and its subsidiaries around Europe and the world. We'll be launching as well in Canada as a first taste of North America. Just looking at the third point there from the top, the U.S. market is hopefully just around the corner. We're looking into the regulatory aspects of launching Champion Health as a standalone as we start in the U.S. market. And hopefully, that study is done quite soon, and then we see if we can also leverage on the excellent market that we have at our fingertips there in -- on the other side of the Atlantic. Now Q4 2022, small to midsized self-service version of Champion Health will be very, very important because that means that we can scale with a product-led strategy that has the potential to give us logarithmic type revenue streams that can grow incredibly fast. We already seen a taste of that since the inception of Champion with how fast revenue can accelerate, but that's actually based on an enterprise style manual sales process, although with a lot of automated algorithmic triggers in the way that the end users are treated, but applying a self-service, self-pay, credit card-based acceleration strategy could give us some really, really nice revenue flows here starting in Q4. Next year, we're obviously always keen on localization. Physitrack is available in 15 languages. So we have localization teams for different target markets. It is very key that we get a German version into the hands of our German care subsidiary well now because we really want to work with not just multinationals in Germany, but we want to work with German-speaking companies as well, and they are so perfectly positioned. And remember, they have the ability to attach care and coaching from their network of 1,000 German providers across the country. That's going to be a very important market for us here in Europe. Q1 2023. So we hope to integrate the Access ecosystem fully into the Champion Health user interface so that we have a seamless collaboration on the tech level between that algorithmic, automated way that you look at employees and their needs, but attaching the availability for coaching, which is done by humans and live chats. And obviously, biometric testing, which is the specialty of Fysiotest. It's an accreditation program with Fysiotest that scales very, very nicely and the reasons where we want to be and as well looking at the rehab piece that Rehabplus is designed. So all in all, we want to have holistic ecosystem. We want to automate the piece, but we obviously want the ability to escalate things into hands-on in a value-added Champion Health Access package down the line. Q2, Q3 2023, B2C version will be very, very exciting for us, obviously, taking the full step into that world from having been B2B to C for all this time. This Is going to be a very, very interesting milestone, and we see some very interesting revenue synergies and acceleration going forward. So that concludes our presentation. We're now moving into the Q&A section, and we don't have any voice question today. So we actually have everything here in writing. So we already have some questions here.

Let's see, I'm going to start at the top. So approximately how much of revenue are you expecting Champion to generate in 2022? I mean that's one for Charlotte.

Yes. So across the full year, and obviously, we don't own Champion for the full year. But across the full year, we expect revenues in sterling at around GBP 0.5 million mark. They're obviously exiting the year with a much higher run rate of that because it is very high growth in subscription revenue.

Right. Good. A question here. Will you assist Champion with sales? And the answer to us is yes, 1,000x yes. Although they are very good at this. So actually, I don't think they need any help, but we actually happen to have a very, very nice presence on the ground in the U.K. with insurers and insurance intermediaries that could probably need some of the Champion's Health -- Champion Health's magic. There's obviously Germany, where we have a very strong presence there among large industrial companies. And they have an excellent sales team down there, which are also growing that business very, very strongly. And in the Nordics, where we have already national and multinational customers, not to mention we have feet on the ground in North America, in Canada and several places in the U.S. market. So yes, we will be able to leverage some great business development and sales synergies from inside of the group while also adding to Champion's team, obviously, be quite important. Jointly, I'm going to see, very exciting is the ambition to use Champion's platform interface as the core in the Access platform? Yes. That is the same answer to that. In the sort of medium term, there will be 2 versions of Access, one version, which is more focused on the actual care provision side of things, the ability to escalate things into care and coaching and biometric testing, which is based on Physitrack's customer app range. Now obviously, over time, we want the full integration into Champion. So Champion becomes the wrapper, a very, very sexy intelligent wrapper to the Access ecosystem and that will be the flagship product in the -- in our holistic wellness range, which we internally call Access. But obviously, for the outside world, it will be Champion Health Access once you have those care pieces switched on. In what way does this springboard and complementary virtual care push your relation to competitors offering. First of all, Harry did a nice overview there with the likes of [ Mindspace], et cetera. So Champion on a standalone basis, it's hugely competitive. There is nothing like that out there in the B2B space in terms of how that user journey is set up and organized and how people interact with personalized content. That's based on algorithmic analysis and input from the employee down the line with that Access integration and the ability to do the biometric testing, refine those algos and also to have a biometric focal point for that employee or the consumer journey, and nobody else does that. And obviously, the ability to chat or interact with a coach that takes care of your company, your ecosystem and also the ability to escalate to care, there is nothing like that out there. So it's very unique in that holistic approach. So let's see final here, how it ties into the other acquisitions. So you can see the Champion Health product as the wrapper, w-r-a-p-p-e-r, to that ecosystem so that you have that -- you have an interactive -- sorry, beautifully designed and very nicely flowing algorithmic-based journey as the front end for that. And then you have a presumably an API integration of the Access ecosystem behind that. Now it ties into the other acquisitions because you have local business development. You have the locally licensed, you have the locally regulated care subsidiaries that can sell not only their own product, which is based on the coaching, the biometric testing and the rehab and what these subsidiaries do, but they can actually take this product on and they can sell and accelerate from day 1 with this. So the synergies are very substantial in that you have teams that are on the ground already not just for business development, but also for the clinical care side of things and coaching. So that's what pushes this in a very, very nice way and ties up the subsidiaries in a perfect way. I have a lot of questions here. How should we think about the time line for potential integration and synergies going forward ? So we covered that in the presentation. So the business development synergies for Champions is standalone, they've already started. So we already have lists of multinationals that we are approaching from the Physitrack side of things so that we can get this into as many hands as possible starting immediately. In terms of the SME piece, there are some really, really nice things that we've done in terms of the automated customer journey in terms of how we onboard customers automatically, how we charge them subscriptions automatically with the credit cards, and how we track the data rather than that. And we optimize user experience. And so those types of synergies, they will come into play very, very quickly because that's on the software development side of things. So many, many things there to expect. Okay. EBITDA margins appear very high. It's a very, very nicely run company. But can you say anything on CapEx investment levels for Champion? And what levels of investment needs need to be taken in order to localize the content platform in Champions for the markets you plan to roll out the offering? So let me do a couple of high-level things and I'll pass to you, Charlotte. So this is why this is such a beautiful joining of forces because what we do with development, what we do with that SME piece with the automated customer on-boarding and the subscription management, all those things. We will be recycling existing technology, existing know-how and existing development firepower into that. So those are not additional costs presumably that we'll have to take on the Champion side of things, which will make this into a very, very nicely accelerate, I don't that word, at proposition for us internally. Localization, we already have these teams inside of Physitrack. We already have the know-how. We have the systems, and we have the people to translate into up to 50 languages. And these are not people that Champion will have to hire, and so it's not going to be a load on their CapEx. So of course, there will be some investments that will continue to be made on the Champion side with partly a big part of the cash flow that, that business generates, but also with some investments that we do. And it's mostly inside the content side of things. And -- but also, if you want specific specialized developers, that we want to have a laser focus on this. But yes, there are so many nice synergies in terms of the teams that we think that this is going to be a -- even on a bottom line level is going to be very interesting journey. I don't know, Charlotte, if you want to jump in there?

Yes. So on the CapEx piece, Champion's current CapEx spend is about GBP 400,000 a year, and that's with their existing plans. As Henrik says we're able to be very efficient with the investment on the future pieces, but we are planning over the next 4 years about GBP 1 million investment in Champion spread over those 4 years to put some of those additional plans in that we've talked about already.

Okay. I have another one. The first line is multiples paid up here, which in light of recent multiple contraction in the digital health space. Now that might be -- that contraction is obviously something that is happening for listed companies. You start to have a spillover into private companies. However, for really, really rapidly accelerating companies of this type of quality like Champion, you do have richer multiples. And to be honest, if you read the press release, you can see the 3.7 on the existing run rate. This is still a very, very attractive multiple, given the rocket fuel that's in the tank. So we actually -- we see that this is a good solution for all of us, I think. And yes, I think shareholders should be very happy about that. And any ambitions for the fiscal year revenues for Champion based on the current run rate, et cetera?

Yes. So the group as a whole obviously has a target to the 30%. We have said that we expect Champion to exceed that. In the short term, I would expect more in the region of 100% growth in the Champion level of business.

From now until the end of the year, so 100%. Now there is a lot of rocket in that tank. There's a lot of rockets in the tanks of our care subsidiaries. Everybody loves this. Everybody just can't wait just to hit the road, running here with what we're doing. So I think it's quite a reasonable little mini forecast from now. But we'll be reporting some nice KPIs, and we'll get our hands around how we want to do the revenue reporting and the forecasting in terms of what the Champion business going forward. Okay. We have another one here. What would the potential aggregate earn-out payments now be in light of recent 6 acquisitions for 2023, 2024? And does this impact your financial flexibility to pursue more acquisitions? Just starting from the end there, and then I'll hand over to Charlotte there. So we have historically had a very strong financial position in that. We've always been fast growing and high margin. This has been incredibly important for the launch of the M&A program, which now clocks in at as the sixth acquisition today. But this is the way that we have set up. These things make it very possible for us -- we use this earn-out structure, it makes it possible for us to have a very nice high volume of deals coming in, especially when you do them with profitable companies. And so what we've done here today, it doesn't really affect the velocity of what we can do going forward. And also, as Charlotte mentioned, we have the ability to get credit facilities, which is a seal on quality based on years of hard work and just maintaining our financial robustness. And so if we want to, we can combine what's generated on a cash flow basis inside of these acquisitions with credit. And we don't actually need to slow down unless we really want to. Charlotte, anything you want to add there?

Yes. So we've got 4 acquisitions now on earn-outs. So the previous 3 being Rehabplus, Fysiotest and Wellnow and Champion join that. And obviously, the details of those all in the relevant press releases, and we have made a few earn-out payments in relation to them. So the aggregate is dropping there. But of course, if we are paying those earn-outs to the max aggregate level, that means that the business is accelerating hugely and therefore, the profits in the business will be able to service those earn-outs.

Right. Next one here with regards to the M&A landscape right now, given what's going on in the markets, are we seeing more of a willingness of private companies to sell at this point in time? Or they are still getting to get back to where we were 6 to 12 months ago? Well, I don't think there's one clear answer to that. Everybody is different depending on if you're independent, you're founder, or founded and you have a cap table that's limited to just a very few people. Then that point where you're interested in selling will come whenever the founders feel that they are ready for it, when they want to take the step and they want to accelerate and they want to do something bigger. They want to take that mission widely, et cetera. And so this is very much the case here with Harry and Ricky with Champion, an amazing story. They have this global ambition that you really ideally need a strong industrial partner to do, especially with the need for that care, integration and the human aspects of this that you want to integrate into. Now this will be different from VCs and private equity companies that are still private. I would say there's probably a lag there with the multiple contractions in the public market hits in the private markets. I think there's still some stubbornness in terms of VC and private equity have appetite to sell at current levels. I personally think there's probably a catch-up that will come there, sort of a return to reality because fundraising in this type of environment where interest rates are going up, there are other alternative places where you can put your money and get nice returns on them. So when that filters through to VC and PE, then it's not unlikely that we'll see more flow there. But it's all -- it's very individual depending on what you're looking for. And as you know, we always look for well-performing, ideally founder-led, founder cap table controlled companies. And for that, there is always a very interesting market. When you see some fluctuations in terms of multiples, depending on the seasonality of it. But yes, I don't think anything has really changed there, to be honest, not in the segment that we are looking. Okay. Given the organic growth rate of some of the acquired companies, appears to be higher than your own 30-plus percent target, albeit at somewhat lower profitability. Do you see any need to revise your midterm financial targets at some stage over the coming year? Well, there are some really interesting revenue dynamics in Champion Health and also obviously in Wellnow, in Fysiotest, Rehabplus that are quite different from the type of revenue dynamics you see in the original Physitrack SaaS ecosystem, which is based on a quite modest per care provider subscription fee, which doesn't actually scale with the end user too well. And so it is probably natural for us to take on board these new revenue dynamics, have a little tinker around and see if this is something that will require us to change our guidance, i.e., we have a theory that, that will probably be the case, but we're going to let this percolate a little bit. We're going to continue to develop a fantastic business here with Harry and Ricky. And then over time, we'll see if that medium target needs to be revised or not. So a nice and vague answer to that. But we have a very, very positive outlook on the future, given those end user revenue dynamics. Char, do you want to add anything there?

No, I think that covers it. I mean, obviously, at the moment, Physitrack is still by far the largest business, obviously, of Physitrack and Physiotools, the SaaS business. So on a percentage basis, that's what influences the group's revenue growth the most. But as these subsidiaries do grow and then they become a larger proportion of our revenue, I think that is the point that we would need to look at aligning our group targets more closely with their targets.

Good question here. Is there a freemium offer in Champion Health currently? So Harry, do you want to answer that?

Yes. So at the moment, it's not a premium offering. We want our organization to see the value in Champion Health, first of all, and then increase usage and the total contract value can increase off the back of that. When we look at the B2C offering, we'll look at considering a freemium offering, where there might be a 7- or 14-day free trial, for example, hooks them in, and they can see the value and then the user can access the platform at a certain cost. So that's something we're going to be discussing later on today and it's a very exciting opportunity. But for the B2B outlook, we don't have a freemium offering our organizations pay off from.

So there isn't a down effect that it's very important for this. So especially in B2B, bigger enterprises, they're usually -- there's usually a pilot process where you come in and you get to test this out with a smaller group of employees. And if and when that works, you scale it widely. So such there's really no space for a freemium piece there. As Harry said, when we look at the more automated side of things, automated SME and obviously B2C, there might be some interesting things that we could do there with the less cost average when we get there. Can you cover the tech stack of both companies and anticipated synergies in that area? Yes, we can. And there are some very interesting things that are going on right now, both -- in both companies in terms of the growth of the team. There's some great creativity. There are some great dynamics there already. And so obviously, the aim is that we optimize this. I believe that there's a need focus on the heads down at both ends in terms of especially when it comes to innovation and design and architecture and things like that to just really be in Champion Health or Physitrack bubble when it comes to ideas and development of these things and not to try to mix and match too much in between the teams. But when it comes to React Native coding and when it comes to Ruby on Rails coding, which we saw back end and the integrations and recycling of components is going to be quite important to have the sharing of knowledge and the sharing of team members in between the 2. And this is something that we're working on at the moment just to see what we take that forward. But the common denominator full speed ahead on both sides in terms of those teams and in terms of how that product evolves and how we get new interesting features to market. Moving on here, more clients. Does more clients mean that they need to scale the amount of employees. Well, so when it comes to, obviously, enterprise sales, there is a high degree of handholding, customer on-boarding, and there is a more personalized context when you get to work with these type of companies. This is a highly personal thing for a lot of their employees. It becomes a personal thing for their HR departments, for the founders, for the CEOs, et cetera, and as such, you have to spend more one-on-one time, there's a lot you can do with automation of customer training and understanding what they need, on-boarding and things like that. And of course, Champion's algorithmic in terms of how they roll out with employees, and that's going to continue to be the case. So for enterprise, yes, we will scale that up. But of course, we already have, as I explained, people on the ground in key geos. And so I don't think this is going to be something that's not at all linear with the on-boarding of new customers and things like that. And of course, we have our customer value task force that can look at user patterns inside of the platform and then optimize the question on your features and on-boarding and things like that just to make sure that you can scale and do things and maintain this high-margin concept that we're in. So yes, but we will scale because we will hire more people but will be very, very smart about that because there are some very, very small people already inside of Champion Health and inside of our group. So, yes, I'm not expecting any major movements there in terms of margins, sales potential for 2023 and 2025. Well, we don't have any official forecast on Champion, but I think Charlotte already alluded to the explosiveness in the revenue generation and the fact that they grew already 300% just in the last few months that sort of a little hint on where this can go. We obviously have forecasts for both 2023 and 2025. They are in line with what we see in terms of the potential of the market. We've seen they are in line with what we've seen so far. And so it's -- there are multiple on what we've seen so far. So very, very rapid acceleration there. But we will get back to the KPIs and the forecast specific for Champion Health inside of the context of our regular quarterly reporting. All right. Second last question. What capabilities approaches around retention and customer value do Champion Health have that we can import to Physitrack? It's a very nice question there from must be a very smart guy, and I asked that. Harry, do you want to take that one?

Yes. So in terms of the customer attention, we've got a huge customer success piece that we work alongside with Champion. We do a lot on the enterprise piece as well and show them a lot of look with all of our clients, and we've got a whole on-boarding, an engagement process that we take them through. That's something that's going to extend going forward as well as we look to potentially hire ahead of well-being going forward. So that's been working in global organizations, and that will look to scale globally going forward, too.

Very good. Right. So last question here. What is the churn rate for Champion? And so again, we are getting back to the KPIs that we'll be reporting specifically for this because as you can see now, the wellness ecosystem has very much been fast-tracked into a SaaS wellness ecosystem, which was the plan long. And as such, we will have reporting metrics on that size of user base notably and then, of course, the revenue dynamics of it and presumably customer retention and churn. So we will get back to you on that in the quarterly report in the near future. I think that concludes the Q&A, and that concludes this webcast. And as we would like to say goodbye here for Sheffield. There's another little nice video from Champion Health playing right after, so stick around for that. We're available for questions if you have any additional things. So thank you very much and over and out from Sheffield.

Thank you.