Pioneer Credit Limited (PNC) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, and welcome to Pioneer Credit's 2022 Annual General Meeting. My name is Michael Smith, and I am the Chairman of the Board and Chairman for this meeting. I'd like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which we meet in person today, the Whadjuk people of the Noongar nation, and recognize their continuing connection to land, water and culture. We pay our respects to their elders past, present and emerging. Pioneer's full Board is with us today, and on my left is our Managing Director, Keith John; and Non-Executive Directors, Steve Targett and Michelle d'Almeida; and on my right, Peter Hall; and Andrea Hall joins us by telephone. Members of our executive are also with us today, our Company Secretary, Sue Symmons; and our Chief Financial Officer, Barry Hartnett. Leanne Karamfiles, who is representing the company's auditors for FY '22, Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu, is also in attendance today. And Leanne is available to ask -- to answer any relevant questions as required. The Notice of the Meeting contains 5 items of business, with 4 resolutions to be tabled when we move to the formal part of the meeting. Before we proceed to the business of the meeting, I will be providing my Chairman's address. Then following the formal part of the meeting and the closing of this AGM, Keith will provide a presentation on the operations of the business, including a review of the first quarter's trading and an outlook for the balance of financial year '23. I confirm that a copy of my address and presentations being made at this meeting have been lodged with the ASX. Before the meeting begins, there are a few housekeeping matters. Please ensure that you have followed the instruction on Link Group's virtual meeting online guide and have registered to vote by clicking the get a voting card button. As this is a meeting of Pioneer Credit shareholders, only shareholders, their appointed proxies or corporate representatives are entitled to ask questions or vote. For those visitors who have joined us, you are not eligible to vote or ask questions, but you're very welcome as observers. For shareholders, once you have registered, you may submit a question by clicking on the ask a question button, type in your question and clicking submit or alternatively, those who have contacted Link prior to this meeting, being verified and obtained a personalized PIN, may ask a question or make a comment by telephone. Please wait for instructions from the moderator. We'll do our best to answer all questions during the meeting. So please keep these questions or comments concise to ensure as many questions as possible are answered. Following consideration of the 2022 financial report, I will give shareholders the opportunity to ask general questions of the Board or questions about the conduct of the auditor by the independent auditor, Deloitte. You will also be given the opportunity to ask questions in relation to each of the resolutions to be considered by the meeting when they are brought forward for consideration. In accordance with the ASX corporate governance principles and recommendations, all resolutions will be voted on by a poll. Each resolution will be read, proxy votes will be displayed, and shareholders will be given the opportunity to ask questions. The poll will then be undertaken and the meeting closed. The results of the poll will be provided to the ASX following the meeting. Proxy votes for each resolution will be at the closing time for receipt of proxies, which was 11:00 a.m. AWST on Monday, October 31, 2022. I'll now move to the business of the meeting. Ladies and gentlemen, in accordance with the Corporations Act, the link was provided to shareholders on the 3rd of October 2022 to download the company's Notice of Annual General Meeting. A copy of the notice is available on our Investor Relations website and the ASX announcements page. If there are no objections, I propose the Notice of the Meeting be taken as read. We have no objections. I confirm that there is a quorum present. Therefore, the meeting is properly constituted, and I declare the meeting open. I'll move to my address. Thank you for joining us in our first entirely webcast AGM. We hope that you will feel encouraged to participate fully and find the ability to raise questions and have your issues discussed easily. We'll be interested in any feedback on how we can improve the experience for you, our shareholders. Since listing, we've been on quite a journey ranging from being somewhat of a stock market darling to barely surviving a series of extraordinary company-threatening setbacks and now surfacing to take a leading role in our sector. In that context, FY '22 was a significant year for the company. We established a basis of providing our patient shareholders with opportunities associated with a return to profitability and taking a senior and, what we think will be, a preferred position in the market. A feature has been the solid operating performance with liquidations up 13% to $105.6 million of what has been a very modest investment of debt portfolio over the prior 2 years. In working our way through our challenges, we had to accept a high cost of debt. In FY '22, we refinanced our business. This required significant one-off expenses that substantially contributed to a net loss of $33.1 million. As we wade out of the swamp and drop off the mud and start walking in clean clothes, we expect to start running again. We expect to return to profitability in FY '23 and for that profit to grow solidly from here. We've become profitable by running our business well with proven operations, strong vendor relationships, improved data and IT and an excellent team without the distractions and costs of the past challenges. In refinancing, which we settled in November last year, we entered a 4-year financing facility with significant headroom, and our medium-term notes were increased and extended to expire in 2026. The ability for us to refinance down further is also built into both facilities. Keith John will discuss this in his presentation. To support this refinancing, additional capital was issued through two equity raises approximately $21 million, both at a premium to the then share price and well supported by our three largest shareholders in our Managing Director, Mr. James Simpson and Nomura Australia. We are very grateful for their continued investment in and support of the growth of the company. The leadership of our company, our shareholders and virtually of all have encouraged the investment of friends and family into the business, justifying the faith of our supporters is both personal and professional. The debt purchase industry has undergone significant change in the past year, not only from the ongoing impact of the pandemic. The changes have resulted in quality vendors reconsider who they sell to and continuing to prefer quality over price when selecting a purchasing partner. Pioneer has been the beneficiary of this, and in FY '22, invested $100 million in new portfolios, a record amount for the company and more than the prior two years combined. With a customer-first service model and an enviable compliance record, Pioneer has also entered an industry-first 5-year forward flow purchasing agreement with the Commonwealth Bank. This agreement is an example of the evidence supporting our belief in our investment capability and opportunities. Supporting our position and reputation, we recently refreshed the Pioneer brand and launched our new website to our staff and business partners. The new look reflects an old truth: we're founded in cultural alignment and employee advocacy; improving the customer experience and injecting the brand promise of genuine care; and instilling a new vision into stakeholder communication to increase brand equity. A number of business initiatives have been completed throughout the year that are designed to further bolster our governance and compliance, improve our operational effectiveness and to continue to reduce the cost to serve in a manner best suited to each of our customers' needs. Data and technology are major elements in these initiatives with the replacement of our core business system over the next 12 months, leveraging digital and growth strategies, including customer segmentation, enhanced collection strategies and improved customer management. Operational efficiencies and productivity gains are expected across all business functions via process improvements identified through product implementation and the product life cycle. Keith will provide a more detailed overview of our strategic priorities for FY '23 following the close of this meeting. Pioneer understands that stakeholders are looking to the corporate world to take a lead on ESG matters. We are conscious of this responsibility, and we are aware of the social impact our company can have on its customers, many of whom are, to some degree, vulnerable. To that end, we await B Corp's response to certification, which evidences that our business is committed to and balances people, planet and profit. Attaining certification proves the business meets the highest global standards of social and environmental performance, public transparency and legal accountability. In closing, we acknowledge the journey shareholders have been on with us. We have worked extremely hard to position the company for the good conditions that sit in front of us. We all have much work to do to gain the confidence in the market and to have a share price that reflects the true value of the company. We will continue to work with you to achieve this. It is usual, at this point, to thank my fellow directors and management and staff. Our diverse pool of talent is essential to deliver on our initiatives and to make a positive impact on society. I am very grateful for their continued support and service and effort. Of course, that is true, but few companies would have done so well in the circumstances faced by Pioneer and those that have prospered will all say it's due to the extraordinary group of people who could have found an easier way, but they did the hard thing and they did the right thing together, and I'm very proud to stand with them. I thank you, our shareholders, again, for your patience. I look forward to standing before you at next year's AGM having done what we said we would. Before moving to the formalities of the meeting, Sue, are there any questions online?

No questions online, Chairman.

Are there any questions on the phone line?

Mr. Chairman, there is no questions from the phone line.

Following the formalities of this meeting, I will be passing over to Keith for his presentation. You will also have an opportunity at that point to ask Keith any questions. On the basis that there are now no further questions, I'll move to the formal business of the meeting. As mentioned, all resolutions will be decided on a poll. Each resolution will be read, proxy votes will be displayed, and shareholders will be given the opportunity to ask or submit questions. The poll will then be undertaken and the meeting closed. The results of the poll will be provided to the ASX later today. The first order of business is to receive and consider the financial report, the directors' report and the auditor's report year ended June 30, 2022. The 2022 annual report contains those reports. A copy of the 2022 annual report was made available on the company's website and was sent to those shareholders who requested it. The financial statements have been approved by the directors and audited by Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu. As required by section 317 of the Corporations Act, I now lay before the meeting the financial report, the directors' report and the auditor's report for the financial year ended June 30, '22. And I have a copy of the annual report here. So noting they have been tabled, there is no vote required on that item. At this time, I'd like to take any general questions or comments about the financial report, directors' report and the auditor's report. Ms. Leanne Karamfiles, our audit partner for FY '22 from Deloitte, is also available to ask any specific questions that you may have about the conduct of the audit. I confirm that there have been no questions submitted in writing to the auditor prior to this meeting. Please keep any questions specifically relating to the remuneration report until resolution 1 is dealt with. Are there any questions online, Sue?

No questions online, Chairman.

And are there any questions on the phone line?

There are no questions at this time.

Thank you. As there are no further questions, I will now proceed to consider the proposed resolutions on today's agenda. Resolution 1 of the agenda is to consider and, if thought fit, to pass a resolution to adopt the remuneration report. I now put the resolution to the meeting that the company's remuneration report for the financial year ended June 30, 2022, as set out in the directors' report, be adopted. I confirm that the remuneration report is included within the directors' report on pages 19 to 32 of the company's 2022 annual report. While this vote on this item is advisory only and does not bind the company or its directors, please be assured that the Board takes into consideration any feedback we receive from shareholders. The Board abstains, in the interest of good corporate governance, from making a recommendation in relation to this resolution. Voting restrictions apply to this resolution. Key management personnel and their closely related parties, whose remuneration details are contained in the remuneration report, are excluded from voting on this resolution, except where exercising a directed proxy on behalf of persons whose remuneration details are not included in the remuneration report. Proxy votes will now be displayed. Are there any questions online, Sue?

No questions online.

And do we have any questions on the phone line?

There are no questions at this time.

As there are no further questions and voting will be conducted by a poll, I'll now move to the next resolution. Resolution 2 is to consider and, if thought fit, pass a resolution to reelect Ms. Andrea Hall as a Non-Executive Director of the company. I now put the resolution to the meeting. That, Andrea Hall, who retires as a Director in accordance with clause 6.1(f)(i)(A) of the company's constitution and having offered herself for election and being eligible, is reelected as a Director of the company. Ms. Hall's experience and qualifications are set out on Page 10 of the Notice of Meeting. The Board, with Ms. Hall abstaining, unanimously recommends that shareholders vote in favor of the election of Ms. Hall. Proxy votes are now displayed. Are there any questions online, Sue?

No questions online.

Thank you. And do we have any questions on the phone line?

There are no questions at this time.

Thank you. As there are no further questions and voting will be conducted by a poll, I'll now move to the next resolution. Resolution 3 is to consider and, if thought fit, pass a resolution subject to the consent from ASIC and to Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu's resignation to appoint RSM Australia partners as the company's replacement auditor. The company advises that ASIC consent to Deloitte's resignation has been received. In that regard, the resolution will be put to shareholders to consider by poll. If the resolution is passed, RSM Partners will be the company's new external auditor. If the resolution is not passed, Deloitte's resignation will still take effect and the company will have a vacancy in the office of its external auditor. I'll now put the resolution to the meeting. That, subject to the approval from the Australian Securities and Investment Commission to the resignation of Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu as the auditor of the company for the purpose of section 327B(1) of the Corporations Act and for all other purposes, RSM Australia Partners, having consented in writing to act as auditor for the company, be appointed as auditor of the company with effect from the close of this meeting. The Board unanimously recommends that shareholders vote in favor of resolution 3. Proxy votes are now displayed above. Any questions online, Sue?

No questions online.

And do we have any questions on the phone line?

There are no questions at this time.

Thank you. As there are no questions and voting will be conducted by a poll, I will now move to the next resolution. ASX Listing Rule 7.1 allows companies to issue up to 15% of their fully paid ordinary shares over any 12-month period without shareholder approval. ASX Listing Rule 7.1A enables eligible entities to seek approval for an additional 10% of their fully paid ordinary shares over any 12-month period. Pioneer is an eligible company as it is not included in the -- in the S&P ASX 300 Index and has a market capitalization of less than $300 million. And resolution 4 seeks shareholder approval by way of a special resolution to have the ability to issue securities under the 10% placement facility. While the company has no plans to make an issue of equity securities under Listing 7.1A, this approval provides the company with additional flexibility. I now put the resolution to the meeting. That for the purpose of Listing Rule 7.1A and for all other purposes, shareholders approve the issue of securities totaling up to 10% of the issued capital of the company at the time of issue, calculated in accordance with the formula prescribed in Listing Rule 7.1A.2 and on the terms and conditions as set out in the Explanatory Statement. The Board unanimously recommends the shareholders vote in favor of the 10% placement facility. Proxy votes are now displayed. Sue, any questions?

No questions.

Do we have any questions on the phone line?

There are no questions at this time.

Given no questions and no further resolutions, I will move to the poll. Ladies and gentlemen, the company has adopted the ASX Corporate Governance Council guidelines, which recommends that a poll be called on all substantive resolutions. In this instance, it is appropriate that all resolutions be conducted by a poll pursuant to the requirements of the law and the company's constitution. Link Market Services Limited has been appointed by Pioneer as returning officer for the poll. Shareholders who have registered may click on the get a voting card button. Once your voting card appears, all the resolutions will be voted on will be displayed. You may need to use the scroll bar on the right-hand side of the voting card to view all resolutions. Please follow the prompts online to complete the voting card and then click the submit details and vote button. Proxy votes I hold as a nominated proxy for shareholders in relation to each resolution are now displayed. Online voting will end 5 minutes after the close of the meeting. The results of the poll will be released to the ASX later today and posted on our website. In accordance with the company's constitution, I confirm that there is no other business brought forward to be transaction. As there is no further business, that concludes the formal proceedings of the 2022 Annual General Meeting of Pioneer Credit Limited, and I thank you again for attending and declare the meeting closed. Having concluded our Annual General Meeting, I'd now like to invite Keith John to present his Managing Director's presentation.

Thank you, Michael. And thank you to all our shareholders and guests and visitors that have joined us today. Prior to proceeding with my presentation, I just call out the important disclaimer page, which deals with the assumptions inherent in our presentation or my presentation today and other disclaimers as you'd be familiar with. 2022, as Michael said, was a very important year in the history of this company and one which we worked exceptionally hard on to position ourselves to take advantage of the opportunity that we've built within the business and within the environment which we operate in and to position ourselves for a return to profitability in '23. From a highlights perspective, there are really five parts to this business, which set us apart. The first is our position as a top two Australian player. Over the course of the last 3 or 4 years, this market has changed dramatically. Several of our competitors have left the market. Others have been prosecuted for misdeeds and really what we have done is positioned ourselves, as we always have been, as a premium provider of services back to vulnerable customers. It is a service that is valued by the banks, valued by our vendor partners and one which I'll talk on through this presentation, as I generally do, as the real key to the value inherent in this business in addition to the valuable assets that we have. We have exceptionally strong vendor relationships. They're relationships which we value and we know our banking partners value, and we invest in them heavily. The brand refresh, which Michael touched on and which we go through later on, really builds out on that relationship with the banks, and it's something we work closely with our banks on to make sure that we're hitting the mark, not just in terms of their expectations, but to ensure that it's aligned with us and also to get great outcomes for our customers. We have a sustainable and growing income stream. You'll be familiar with our performing arrangements book. It's some $460 million. It is exceptionally valuable and provides a recurring income stream back into our business on a monthly basis, and we continue to grow that through the period. Importantly, and as Michael also said in his presentation, we do the right thing. This is a business of resilient people who are committed to doing the right thing to everyone they deal with. It is a difficult course at times but one which sets us apart and sets us up for the future. And our management team and Board, there is extensive experience across this sector through the cycles, and it's what's got us through also the last couple of years. In addition to not only are our family and friends heavily invested in this business, that your Board and management owns some 21% of this company. Our alignment to you is real, it is valuable, and it's different. There are no short-term incentives that sit inside this leadership. So when we invest in PDPs, we invest alongside you, and we are there after you. And that's the way it should be in a small financial services business, and it's very, very real at Pioneer. Our focus is very clear. We focus on customer care. And Michael talked about genuine care and this is what gives us the ticket to play. This is what ensures that the banks prefer to use Pioneer and prefer us as their purchasing partner. We demonstrate this very clearly through our Net Promoter Score. It's unique. It's something that no one else in our sector talks to, and it's something that we use extensively to not just demonstrate how we care for customers, but to also ensure that we are caring for them through the journey. We provide flexible options to those customers. We provide a group of people to talk to our customers in a way that is very human to them. One of the other unique things about this business is we don't run call scripts. When our customers deal with us, they're dealing with people that are empowered to solve their challenge and to work with them to get ahead, a single point of contact to make it as frictionless and as painless as possible for a customer to ensure that we can relieve their debt stress. And we give back. We are vitally aware of just how lucky we are, be it through our health, our financial circumstances, the opportunity to live in this great country. We're a community that has philanthropy at its core and that believes in the community in which it operates in. And it's something we're very proud of and something that really is a standout feature of our business. In terms of performance, as Michael said, we really did a lot of work in FY '22 to ensure that we were positioned for a return to profitability. You'll recall that later in the year, we bought some significant portfolios, and I'm exceptionally pleased to sit in front of you today and talk about our Q1 performance, the delivery of the commitment that we made to you as shareholders in terms of what we were going to bring out of this business in this year. On a prior corresponding period basis, liquidations up a very, very strong 27%. It is driven by contribution from across all of our business, and I'll demonstrate that to you in a little bit. Our EBITDA was up 45%. So not only did we drive liquidations, but we did it in a more cost-efficient manner. And that EBITDA number is a record number for a quarter for the company. Likewise, our EBIT up some 330%, a very, very strong result off the back of what's been a very difficult period, again, a record for the company. We expect to continue to perform at those levels through this next quarter as well. In terms of our portfolio investment, you've heard about the $100 million we invested last year. It was more than double the prior two years. During that period, we also signed our industry-first 5-year forward flow agreement with the Commonwealth Bank, a critical agreement that demonstrates not only are we are a preferred vendor that underpins the investment targets for this business and goes a long way to underpinning our liquidations each period as well. We're very, very proud of that agreement, and we believe, and we're working towards that leading to other agreements of a similar nature. For this year, we've guided to $61 million of investment. We have a good proportion of that under contract or completed already, and we've got a lot of opportunity that's coming our way over the course of the rest of this year. Obviously, the macro environment with increasing cost of living pressures and with rising interest rates is likely to lead to other challenges within our economy. We think that's good from a supply side but we also understand how respectful and how valuable our services to solving those problems for consumers, and it's why we think that our opportunity from an investment perspective will only increase from here. At a portfolio level, as I explained earlier, we've got some $460 million in performing arrangements. These are customers that have joined us that are now paying us on a regular basis, be it weekly, fortnightly or monthly. They represent about half of our revenue every month. The other half comes from our $1.5 billion of inventory that we've acquired, some of it recently, some of it over the last couple of years. And it's those consumers that we're working with as their circumstances improve to either become performing arrangement or settle within our business. And we get about half of our revenue opportunity there as well. It's a very, very large opportunity set and one that we're working hard to understand better and to make sure that we can extract more and you'll see in a little bit just how successful we are at doing that. And that's demonstrated through our liquidations by vintage. Going back to the prior corresponding period, 1Q '22, 28% of our revenue came from fresh front book accounts and 34% from customers that have been with us from over 3 years. And despite our very significant investment last year, which obviously grew what we got on our early day front book, to 39%, you will see that we have grown our contribution from our customers that have been with us for more than 3 years to over 37% now. It's a very significant achievement and one that demonstrates that our customer book is performing across the board with deep value inherent in that customer base. Importantly, of course, it's about customer treatment. This business does not succeed and does not have the ticket to play without ensuring that its customers are respected, properly serviced and in arrangements that make sense for them and for us. We have a Net Promoter Score of 27. It's a remarkable achievement when you think about the journey that these customers have been on and their initial relationship with us from the day we acquire them. We're very proud of it. It is something we work hard on every day, and it's something that we measure and is front of mind with your executive and your leadership. In addition to looking after the customers, we've talked about our journey to B Corp certification as we progress down that path to continue to differentiate ourselves and to demonstrate back to our vendor partners and back to the other stakeholders in this business the absolute quality that sits across the board. Michael touched on the brand refresh that we've been on. It's a journey that's taken us quite some time. And the refresh was really about the continued evolution of our position in the market, but all reflecting the changing market that's happened over the last few years. We've always been a business founded in good, we've always been a business of good people, and it does hark back to the truth that's always existed in this business. But we've now focused on our brand harder and made sure that it more accurately reflects who we are and who we want to be, who we aspire to be, and it's something that our people are very, very proud of. What's changed? We've evolved our purpose. Our purpose is to put an end to debt stress, it's important. If we can make someone's life better by communicating with them, by understanding their situation and helping them through a problem, we will be a very successful business and we will have very happy customers on the other side, and that's what we work for every day. We have also reduced our Pioneer principles from six down to three. They capture what were our principles and have been for some time. And this is how we measure every part of our business. And those principles are to be human. It's a simple concept, but it's so, so important when you're talking to someone on the other end of a phone. They are to act with integrity, critical but it's past. It's important in the terms of the way we deal with our people and to know for them, our customers, that they can rely on us and what we say to them is real and true and to act with purpose. We don't waste time. We don't try and string things out for customers. We are there for them to solve their situation today. Those three principles are at the core of this business, and it's how we measure everything. From the way we audit a phone call through to the way my performance is measured are all back to these principles. I'll now let a small video play, which has been launched today to our vendor partners around our positioning and around who we are as an organization. It's something that we have worked on, as I said, with the vendors, also with our customers and with our people at the front line. We're very proud of it, and we hope that when you see this video, it will resonate with you but it'll also explain just a little bit more why this is a successful business and why it will continue to be successful in the years to come. [Presentation]

As I said, we're exceptionally proud of where we've taken our brand to, and it's a very real reflection of who we are as a business and what makes us different. It's a presentation or that presentation has been shared with a number of our vendor partners, and they're extremely happy about what they see in our business and the continued growth and focus around where we are, and it's leading to new discussions and better discussions with them about how we can grow our partnerships in a very fast-changing financial services environment. I look forward to keeping you up to date on the progress of those discussions when we talk next. Importantly, to the outlook, what can you expect to see from Pioneer? Without a doubt, funding is a big issue across more financials at the moment. Pioneer obviously relies on funding as well for its success. We generate really good cash flow, and we use that and invest that back into our business, and we also need funding as well. As you'll see, we have funding available to us, and their maturity dates are quite some time in advance. So we've got no immediate pressures in terms of needing to replace funding with expiries or maturities in late '25 and then late '26. That said, there is a real opportunity for us to start to reduce the cost of funding in this business back to something that is much more realistic and much more reflects where we are as a business compared to the circumstances of the last couple of years. We've been very, very pleased to receive the support of the funders that we have over the last couple of years, and in particular, Nomura, who, following their funding, then invested into the equity of this business. We think that's a strong reflection of who we are. Over the course of the next year, we'll keep you up to date with our progress in addressing the cost of funding in this business, noting, of course, that we have significant maturity before we get to the end of these packages in any event. Finally, and before I open the floor to questions, the outlook for FY '23, what are we working on? Firstly, to thrive under increased regulatory scrutiny. Without a doubt, there has been more scrutiny of practices in financial services over the last few years than likely in the history of this -- of the industry in this country. That's good for Pioneer. We lead the way in the way we think about consumers and the way we work to own our behaviors and to lead the industry in the way we position things to get good outcomes. The scrutiny from regulators will continue. We welcome that. It creates a moat around this business that is going to be very, very difficult for smaller participants and new entrants to get over. Capitalize on PDP investment opportunities. We've guided to $61 million of investment this year. We have about $40 million of that already completed or under contract. We think there will be ample opportunity to expand that over the course of -- later in this financial year and certainly into '24. We will, of course, only do that if it makes sense for this business. We've demonstrated time and again that we are patient investors, and that is good for this business. We had a very, very good year last year. We expect to have a good year of purchasing this year. And we expect for that opportunity to increase over the course of '24. We will continue to work on our performing arrangements book and to grow that. Currently sits at about $460 million, as I've said. We speak about this regularly. It is really core to not only the success of our business and our balance sheet, but also to getting lower cost of funding. It's a very, very valuable part of our business and one that we think separates us from others. In terms of the operating leverage, there is plenty of opportunity for us to remove costs from our business. We've started on that journey now that we're at scale and continuing to scale. There are other opportunities, and Michael touched on our core system replacement, which is all about having a technology platform that is best of breed and one that will drive cost out of our business and drive service levels or work with us to drive service levels up into our consumers. That's a program of work that will take at least over the next year to be -- to implement. And then there's obviously plenty of work after that to make sure that we get the value from this investment over time but it's one which we're excited about and one which our team has already done a very significant amount of work on. And finally, we have a set of macroeconomic conditions that are beneficial to this business, tailwinds. We've got a decreased number of competitors in this market. Importantly, we also have an improved view of Pioneer because of our customer treatment. So when things are tough on others, our treatment stands up even more than it has in the past. Cost of living pressures are rising, interest rates are rising. That will, in time, bring more debt to the market. That's good for the supply side of our business, understanding, of course, that we need to then respect the consumers that we're working with. We do that well, and we'll continue to do that. Those tailwinds certainly benefit this business. FY '23, we expect to be profitable. And of course, those tailwinds supporting us will increase the profitability in '24 and beyond. Finally, before I ask for any questions, my thanks and sincere thanks to my executive and also to our Board for their work and their commitment over what's been a very challenging period. We look forward to sitting in front of you again very soon with more good news and with more -- another bright outlook for the future of this company. Thank you. Sue yes, would you -- are there any questions, please?

No questions online.

Are there any questions on the phone?

There are no questions at this time.

Then I thank you all for your attention today, and we look forward to sitting in front of you again very soon. Thank you.