Plug Power Inc. (PLUG) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Greetings, and welcome to the January 2021 Plug Power Business Update Call. [Operator Instructions] As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to your host, Teal Hoyos, Director of Marketing.

Thank you. Welcome to the Plug Power January 2021 Business Update Call. This call will include forward-looking statements. We intend these forward-looking statements to be covered by the safe harbor provisions for forward-looking statements contained in Section 27A of the Securities Exchange Act of 1933 and Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934. We believe that it is important to communicate our future expectations to investors. However, investors are cautioned not to unduly rely on forward-looking statements, and such statements should not be read as a guarantee of future performance or results. Such statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results or performance to differ materially from those discussed as a result of various factors, including, but not limited to, risks and uncertainties discussed under Item 1A Risk Factors in our annual report on Form 10-K for the fiscal year ending December 31, 2019; our quarterly reports filed on Form 10-Q for the quarters ending March 31, June 30 and September 30, 2020; as well as other reports we file from time to time with the SEC. These forward-looking statements speak only as of the day on which the statements are made, and we do not undertake or intend to update any forward-looking statements after this call or as a result of new information. At this point, I would like to turn the call over to Plug Power's CEO, Andy Marsh.

Thank you, Teal. And let me start out by saying that in these very difficult times for many people, the whole team at Plug Power feels very fortunate that we were able to have a breakout year. So let me go through some of the highlights of the past year. As many of you know, the major theme has been green hydrogen. Now we've been working with governments, customers, partners and environmentalists. Plug Power concluded that the path to success and growth in this industry is green hydrogen. When we listen to the stakeholders, this is what we hear. One of our largest customers, Amazon, has a net-zero carbon goal of 0% by 2040, 10 years ahead of the Paris Climate Agreement. Walmart has identical goals. Both understand hydrogen needs to be part of the mix to achieve these goals. We have 190 governments around the world have signed up to the Paris Climate Agreement, and these goals can not be met with -- these goals can't be met without hydrogen. Now this is why when you look at Europe, they plan to deploy 40 gigawatts of electrolyzers by 2030 and another 40 gigawatts in Northern Africa. In the United States, the Biden administration's -- and many bills circulating Congress, support green hydrogen and fuel cells. Addressing climate change is becoming a bipartisan issue. Members of Congress in the administration understand hydrogen is a necessary part to meet climate goals. So why did they state this? So let's start looking at mobility and an ability to lightweight and high-energy density make fuel cell the technology of choice for commercial applications until 2030, and we will have a prominent position in on-road vehicle -- in all on-road vehicles post 2030. This does not even take into account the added benefits of fast fueling and twice the range of battery electric vehicles. When utilities are considering hydrogen, they are focused on long-term storage. For needs, say, over 11 hours, work done by UC Irvine and others suggest hydrogen is the preferred choice, again, because of energy density. From this energy that is stored can become part of the grid. Plug Power state using Plug Power stationary systems were used for fuel for on-road vehicles. Then thinking about other applications, hydrogen is critical for industrial processes like ammonia refining, steel and cement manufacturing. The carbon footprint in this application is equivalent to on-road vehicles, and hydrogen is the only viable source to provide the high green heat required by this app. Plug Power concludes that to be the first mover and driver of the hydrogen economy, we need not only fuel cell systems, but the ability to generate green hydrogen. And this is what we started to do in 2020 via 2 critical acquisitions. Giner ELX provides us technology leadership in PEM electrolyzers. We are now leveraging Plug Power's scale and manufacturing prowess via our own gigafactory to drive down costs and provide scale manufacturing. United Hydrogen provided Plug Power the capability to build large-scale liquid hydrogen plants. They were the first private company to accomplish such a feat. We didn't stop there in 2020. We are also announcing today a fourth pedestal customer. This customer is an automotive manufacturer with over 50 plants worldwide. We'll be doing 4 sites at the beginning of this year in 2021 to start. Part of their long-term plan includes Plug Power penetrating the on-road vehicle market and large-scale stationary market. Our recent announcement with Renault and SK not only support this goal but provides us a global footprint. Plug Power is now worldwide. I'll provide some additional commentary a little later. Finally, in 2020, we didn't forget basic blocking and tackling. We achieved over $330 million in gross billings. And with our strong bookings, we had been able to up our guidance for 2021 to $475 million. Now on to the future in 2021. We expect 4 major goals in 2021. First, we are going to accelerate our push into green hydrogen. We believe the winner in this endeavor will be companies with both green hydrogen and the fuel cell devices that make this hydrogen valuable. We have both and need to continue to lead. Second, we will complete the formation of JVs with our 2 new partners. Work with Renault has been ongoing for almost a year, and we anticipate our closing the Renault JV prior to mid-summer. With SK, the JV will be established this year, with some initial deployments in 2021. And third, we will expand our partnerships and consider additional JVs to accelerate the hydrogen ecosystem. Plug has been successful in acquiring, partnering, in forming JVs, and we'll continue this mix. For example, our relationship with Brookfield and Apex provide us access to low-cost renewables, which is critical to low-cost green hydrogen. And finally, we will close the pipeline to achieve a goal of $750 million in gross billings for 2022. And as part of moving forward, Plug is increasing our target to green hydrogen. We're going to build out the first nationwide green hydrogen network. We'll have 500 tons by 2025 and 50 tons by 2022 year-end. We will not do this alone, but with partners, including traditional players and some [ novel ] partners. We're looking to expand to 1,000 tons per day by the end of 2028, with a mix of about 30% outside the United States. And to reiterate, this not only builds our green hydrogen business, but also our fuel cell business. So now let's discuss a bit more our JV activities. Starting with Renault. So some people may ask, why Renault for light commercial vehicles? They are experts in manufacturing, product certification, supply chain and are pioneers in electric commercial vehicles in Europe, deploying 100,000 BEVs in 2020. We are targeting a Plug Power Renault vehicle for both the Master and Traffic vehicles now used across Europe. Plug Power brings our fuel cell expertise. We are forming a 50-50 JV that plans to deliver vehicles by late 2021 or early 2022. We are jointly targeting 30% of the light commercial vehicle market in Europe that is expected to be over 500,000 vehicles in 2030. Plug Power will also bring to the JV our expertise in electrolyzers and fueling stations to support turnkey solutions, like [ Gaussin ], the business customers for mobility applications. Now on to SK. SK is the second largest conglomerate in Korea. They are a leader in the energy market, chemical market, telecommunication markets, data centers and fueling stations. We are targeting Korea and other areas of Asia. South Korea alone, by 2040, is targeting 6 million fuel cell vehicles, 1,200 fueling stations, 1,500 megawatts of stationary power and about 15,000 tons a day of hydrogen generation. SK also invested $1.5 billion in Plug Power to tighten our partnership. Look, with all the market acceleration, Plug is increasing our target for 2021 and 2024. In 2021, we have raised the target to $475 million. Folks who know us who've been on these calls before, that usually at this time of the year, we have 70% of our target for the year in backlog. We have 90% at the moment. This $475 million is a 40% growth from 2020. Now with our combination of our SK venture, green hydrogen and market acceleration, we are upping our targets to $1.7 billion for 2024. I should note the SK can consume internally much of this increased target. So what did you hear today? We're the leaders in building the hydrogen economy. Today, we're leaders in fuel cell deployment, fueling station, usage of hydrogen as a fuel. This is just the start. You've heard this morning our ambitions in green hydrogen. We will build out the first green hydrogen network across United States. By 2025, we will have 500 tons of capacity and 1,000 tons of green hydrogen by 2028 around the world. Our relationship with Renault and SK will help ignite our on-roads and stationery business. We will have a global scale and manufacturing footprint. We'll partner with others to achieve these goals. We also have the financial wherewithal to achieve these goals and have the necessary foundations to be an industrial leader in the future $10 trillion hydrogen economy, and that's who Plug Power is today. And Paul and I are really now happy to take any questions you may have.

[Operator Instructions] Our first question today is from Colin Rusch of Oppenheimer.

Could you give us an update on where you're at in terms of procuring the power for this ramp in the 500 tons a day? And a bit of a sense of the geographic diversity that you're looking at for those assets as you roll out over the next few years?

Sure, Colin. We've actually identified 20 sites across United States, either a combination of hydropower, solar power or wind power. We already have 3 sites identified, and I expect by the end of the first quarter, more will be included. I would expect that by 2025, we have 10 plants spread across the Northeast, Southeast, Midwest, across the nation, far West. And that's how we've been thinking about it, Colin. It's a big one. Now I think what can't be [ predominant ] is that there's out there, today, 25,000 tons of hydrogen used a day, and it's going to continue to grow. And the fact that our hydrogen is green, I think, will be incredibly valuable.

That's very helpful, Andy. And then in terms of the over-the-road market, I just want to get a sense of when we're going to start seeing vehicles on the road and testing. We know the commercial vehicle market tends to go through a pretty thorough testing process and then kind of incremental growth on an annual basis. But I want to get a sense of the cadence of when those first vehicles will get produced to enter into testing, and when we might start seeing larger commercial loans on those vehicles?

Sure, Colin. So this is kind of based on joint interviews I've done with Renault is that we'll be putting vehicles on -- out of the field, either late this year or early next year. We'll be in the hundreds to start. By 2025, Renault, who has a deep understanding of this market, feels that we could have 20,000 vehicles on the road. And by 2030, this JV is targeting 30% of the 500,000 vehicle markets for light commercial vehicles in Europe. And look, Plug's -- is not going to stop with -- we have other activities going on, as you know, with some really good integrators and other electric vehicle manufacturers. I'd like to highlight Plug's just not going to stop with the Class II, Class III deployments with Renault, and have been in discussions with others at -- considering similar-type ventures.

The next question is from Eric Stine of Craig-Hallum.

So first, just wanted to start with the SK partnership. It sounds like, obviously, you've got visibility into long term with the 2024 targets updated. But I mean it sounds to me that you've got a pretty robust near-term road map, areas that you're looking to attack pretty early here. So maybe just talk about how that is coming together. I guess, one area that I'm particularly interested in would be for stationary, for utility scale, given that's important in South Korea.

Yes. Very interesting, Eric, because that's -- I think you understand well, that's actually the first target. And we expect to do initial deployments in South Korea for utility power starting in end of this year. So that is actually on our road map together. I would say that #2 and #3 and -- which are not far behind, #2 was activity associated with the hydrogen generation, leveraging the expertise we developed with the United Hydrogen, using their chlor-alkali chemical plants to generate hydrogen. We also -- they operate large fueling networks across South Korea. So there's a great deal of activity in the hydrogen generation front. Back up -- I think the last item that I would kind of mention here, obviously, they have a lot of renewable resources. And our electrolytes -- if I was going to say where are we focusing, stationary; second, fueling stations; and then the electrolyzers close behind, because they operate a great deal of renewable resources around the world.

Got it. Okay. That's great. And maybe last one for me. You mentioned the fourth pedestal customer. I mean it sounds like you're unable to disclose who that is at this point, but just maybe a little color. Is this someone -- or are you able to disclose? Is it someone you've worked with in the past?

Yes. And I think if you go back and look at articles, maybe from Spring Hill, Tennessee, you can figure it out.

Got it. Got it. Okay. And I mean, just as you think about this, so it sounds like maybe not as many locations as what you're doing for Walmart or Amazon. I mean should we think about kind of the similar content per site? Or is it potentially a little bit more, given the operation?

It actually could be a [ large ] -- if you look at -- take the BMW site in Spartanburg, where we're in, as well as in Germany, there can be 500 to 700 vehicles at such sites, while a typical Walmart site is in the range of 250 to 300.

The next question is from Chris Souther of Cowen & Company.

Actually, B. Riley. I had a question around the incremental gross billings that we're looking at for 2021. I'm curious how much of that is to the new pedestal customer here? How much of that is some of the agreements with SK and Renault that you're kind of baking in? And just if you could kind of walk through what's incremental here, and it seems like there's a lot more visibility than typical. Are there additional opportunities you think throughout the year, where there could be upside there? And kind of what would be the drivers of that, potentially?

Yes. So Chris, it does include the activity with the fourth pedestal customer. Yes, we also are seeing -- so I think that's probably the majority of what we're seeing, though, I must say that -- what I did not include -- just because of the timing of these items, is that I did not include Renault. I did not include SK. I view them as all upside. And I can tell you, with all of our pedestal customers, as well as other activities, I do think there's upside for the coming year. But the numbers we're giving you today, as you know, during last year, we upped their numbers by about 10% during the year. And I think there's an opportunity for us, if the year plays out as we expect, that these numbers also could be slightly higher.

Got it. That's great to hear. And then maybe just given some of the moving pieces here with these new agreements and the raised 2024 targets, would you be able to kind of break down by, I guess, end market, what we're looking at, at this point between material handling, on-road vehicles and some of the stationary and hydrogen production? What's the mix that we should be kind of looking at, at this point for 2024?

So Chris, I would circle $750 million for material handling. I would think about, for the new market activities, which include on-road and stationary, I would circle in the range of $400 million, $450 million, and the remainder would be for electrolyzers and hydrogen generation.

The next question is from Amit Dayal of H.C. Wainwright.

Can you talk a little bit about how hydrogen fuel costs for your customers could be lowered over the next 4, 5 years? Maybe just in terms of percentages, if you have that information or visibility.

So if -- I can look at it really simple. Think about -- it's really tied to the cost of renewables, and it's really tied to -- and as you know where the cost of renewables are going for: solar, wind and hydro power, that one can kind of think in terms of the variable cost is going to be about -- if you could think about a $0.01 a kilowatt hour. I'm not saying it's $0.01 a kilowatt hour, you can kind of multiply that by 40 or 50 and that gives you the variable cost per kilogram. So if you look at a deal, let's say, at $0.025 a kilowatt hour, the variable cost is going to be in the $1 to $1.25 type range. And then you have the cost of the equipment and depreciation of that equipment, and that will continue to go down. My belief that you're beginning to get, without even additional tax credits, even if base case range is very, very competitive with the cost of natural gas, a lot of things have to do with where you sit versus the meter. And the deals we're doing have been on a -- not prefer the meter. So if you prefer the meter, I think as everyone out there knows, solar deals are beginning to be done at $0.015. In certain places of the world, we see many opportunities at under $0.03 a kilowatt hour, and that's really the key. Did that answer your question on that?

Yes, roughly. I mean I just wanted to get a sense of how -- on the fuel cost side, what kind of improvements you may be able to see.

Yes. Yes.

Right. Yes. My other question, just one that...

I actually think there's a point in 2025 to 2026 where the cost of fossil fuel, hydrogen and the cost of green hydrogen are parity. And when you look at some of the bills going around Congress at the moment to support green hydrogen, even they get past at half the rate green hydrogen is more attractive than grey hydrogen.

Understood. Understood. Just one more question. In terms of, you know, with all these new partnerships and joint ventures coming into place, and your own infrastructure needs sort of growing to support a wider footprint, how do we think about your CapEx needs over the next 2, 3 years? Any color on that would be helpful.

Yes. I think that a couple of -- I think the major CapEx will be associated with the hydrogen plants. And when we think about, just kind of give you the baseline, for every 10 tons, think about $40 million. So that kind of gives you kind of a feel. There are obviously notable ways to fund that through equity, through partnerships, which I think we'll see a lot. I don't expect Plug to build all these out ourselves as well as through debt. And I think you're going to see that there'll be debt partners coming into play. So I think all 3 of those elements can be in the mix as we think about the capital needs of the company. I would think about the capital needs of the 2 JVs, call them the $200 million type range.

That's helpful.

By the way, those investments in hydrogen will be generating nice cash still. And that will -- I shouldn't forget the fourth item, which is probably the most important, the cash we generate from selling our products will help along the way.

The next question is from Jed Dorsheimer of Canaccord Genuity.

I guess the first one, Andy, first off -- so first question, Andy, I was wondering if you could just address a slight nuance in terms of wording. And it's the use of the -- of billings in terms of -- not necessarily for 2021, but in terms of the 2024. So my understanding is...

Yes. That's actually a real good point, Jed. I'm pretty comfortable calling that. I'm pretty comfortable calling that it's traditional revenue. That's a good point. I haven't thought about. I used the gross billings all the time, but I think, for 2024, it's better to use revenue.

Perfect. So because if you use the...

So that was to script myself -- so I wrote the script myself. So I wrote the script myself so that's why the year are [ pooled ] in right then.

Well, listen, it's not -- I just wanted to clarify because it actually doesn't adequately reflect the growth. Because this year, you should -- Amazon is already finished in terms of the warrants. Walmart should finish this year. By the time you get to 2024, we shouldn't have to think about backing out warrants from that $1.7 billion. It should be solid revenue for the total amount.

Yes. Jed, you were absolutely 100% right.

The next question is from Jeff Osborne of Cowen.

Just a couple on my end. I appreciate you taking the time. Can we put a pin in the CapEx for '21 that Amit was asking? Is there something in the budget that you can share?

You know what, Jeff, it hasn't changed dramatically. I would wait to the -- I think we have our earnings call at the end of February, I can give you the exact number then. But you can figure, there's 50 tons of hydrogen plants that we're going to be building. We'll start others. So you can -- I think you can kind of back in the numbers. I just don't want to give you a quick number.

I want to make sure with -- yes, I'm sure the New York facility and then the 2 JVs that you mentioned were $200 million. How much of that was front-end loaded in '21? But you got quite a few initiatives out there so just trying to keep track of those.

Yes. Jeff, I think -- not to duck the question, it's -- we -- I think as part of the acceleration, we may spend more this year than planned. I just don't want to throw a number out there and have everybody's models off.

Got it. Okay. Another, just while we're all redoing our model, I just want to follow up on an 8-K that you filed with Amazon several weeks ago. Do you have a preliminary sense on what the charge will be during the fourth quarter call for the accelerated vesting of those warrants?

No. But I think I do have an idea But it hasn't been finalized with the auditors yet. So I have a pretty good idea, but again, I'm going to bake forgiveness in, and we'll be able to provide you additional insight, okay?

You punted on the first one.

I'll probably [ aim ] for this once, yes?

Here's more of a business question. Can you just talk about the momentum, specifically, in electrolyzers post the deal now at several quarters in? What RFPs you're responding to at a macro level, the success of Giner transitioning from sort of kilowatt scale to multi-megawatt? Obviously, SK endorsed the technology, but are you seeing any applicability to a lot of the momentum, in particular, in Western Europe, I guess, is the basis of my question?

Yes. Jeff, a couple of areas, I'd like to say. Our electrolyzer business will be at least $50 million this year. I have a sales funnel of at least $1 billion. And we are in discussions with -- when I talked about partnership, it's -- one of our real targets for partnerships are utilities. And we're in some serious discussions with utilities in Europe about partnerships to generate green hydrogen using the Giner technology.

The next question is from Moses Sutton of Barclays.

Great update. On the green hydrogen side, every ton -- every 10 tons you quoted at $40 million now, or that's about $80 million for 20 tons per day. As of the symposium, we were still at about $100 million for every 20 tons. What sort of changed that is shaving off 20% of your expectation there on the CapEx per ton?

As we've looked at scaling from a model point of view, Moses, plants -- when you're talking about building multiple plants, we've been able to negotiate contracts at scale, which has helped reduce the cost, plus there's always design innovation, right? And we continued to look at how to drive down our electrolyzer costs, and more of that comes into play. So that's really kind of what allows us to be at that lower number.

Got it. Got it. And how much of the 500 by 2025 and 1,000 by 2028, each of those, would you expect to be internalized by your material handling customers? And then, I guess, what percentage sold to third parties?

Yes. So -- and I would not exclude opportunities in on-road vehicles being internal to Plug. As I mentioned, the Renault JV is -- also includes the generation of hydrogen. But when you think about it, Moses, let's take a Class 8 truck, it actually uses about 100x more hydrogen than 1 forklift truck. Obviously, there aren't that many. But our internal business, I think, should be at least 40% of that hydrogen for our traditional customers today. But we see opportunities outside that business as we work on additional apps. So I think it could be as high about 60% in internal use and about 40% external use. And when you look at the market today, which is 25,000 tons per day, and we're looking to sell 200 tons of green hydrogen, that doesn't really seem like a big number.

Great. Great. No, very helpful. And one last one for me, and I'll jump in the queue. Andy, can you provide EBITDA guidance for '21 and '24? We have the old '24 number, but I'm sure that's stated now.

Yes. Yes. I would keep the '24 number in that 20% range. And '21 is probably more geared towards focusing on how do we increase gross margins more rapidly. We view '21 as an investment year, obviously. And so when we talk at the end of February, and Paul has everything lined up, we'll be happy to share those numbers.

The next question is from Tristan Richardson of Truist.

Just curious, Andy, can you talk about -- and you may have already mentioned this and I missed it, but could you talk about pedestal customers in the out years, thinking of sort of the number or makeup of pedestal customers in that 2024 time frame?

Yes. So we're targeting 5 pedestal customers by 2024, Tristan. We have 4 today. So it's really not a new stretch. And obviously, I'm not going to let our sales force stop at 5. I think -- my guess is the next one -- 1 of the next 2 is going to be a European pedestal customer. We probably would have closed out 1 this year if we didn't have COVID, quite honestly.

Got you. That's helpful. And then just on the industry side, thinking about the tech/data space, are there customers in that space that you're thinking about or contemplated in the outlook, either for the near term or the 2024 time frame?

So the value proposition is really geared towards -- when you look at tech, it's more geared towards back up at data centers. And we'll be doing our first deployment, actually, in the second quarter with one of the U.S. major data center customers, which is not one of my customers today. And so why are folks doing this? And it's really driven, first, by people's goals. You take a company like Microsoft, that's 1 to reduce its carbon footprint all the way back to zero, back to 1976. You have issues with siting because of issues like noise pollution, actually, with generators, which is creating many problems for data center operators, especially in places like California and Virginia. And the third reason is when you start looking at the cost road map, it becomes incredibly competitive with the traditional diesel generators from a TCO point of view by 2024, 2025. Now for those who have time, there is going to be a rollout of the hydrogen road map for the Northeast. And Microsoft will be talking about during their presentations their views of where fuel cells work in data centers. And I would suspect -- I would suggest people who are interested to listen in. Plug will be presenting also.

The next question is from Craig Shere of Tuohy Brothers.

So a couple of quick ones here. First, on the 50-50 Renault JV, I understand there will be some, perhaps, meaningful ancillary business as you work on electrolyzers and hydrogen supply. But would those revenues be consolidated? And is any of that reflected in your long-term outlook right now? And how should we be thinking about timing of a major tech customer relationship for data center power backup?

I would think you should be thinking about the data center customer third quarter of this year. And that the business for electrolyzers and other activities, we expect Plug Power will be able to consolidate.

I see. So the actual truck engines would not, but all the other stuff would?

We expect the vehicles -- the truck -- we believe the truck engines and the vehicles that there will be some consolidation.

Okay. And one last one for me. If these electrolyzers producing the hydrogen that are very low risk have maybe 40-year lives, maybe I'm just pulling a number out of the year -- if it only requires 10% Plug equity, it seems that you have an enormous remaining cash war chest in your arsenal that has no defined purpose at this point. Would you agree that you have a lot of spare capacity? And do you have any thoughts on where it might be allocated?

So the $10 trillion opportunity for hydrogen, Plug's going to be aggressive. And I'm going to duck this question, too, because I thought about this one last night. And I'm not excited -- part of the problems with a call like this, my competitors are listening, too. But I would just say that we are very much geared towards strength -- from a technology point of view, always interested in access to technology, which lowers our costs and improves our value proposition. I'm also always interested in how to provide customers total turnkey solutions across the board because I really believe that a model where you provide end-to-end solutions. And we have all the capabilities that we developed when we did the material handling market makes sense also in this application.

The next question comes from Paul Coster of JPMorgan.

I guess part of the power of your platform at the moment seems to be that you've got this sort of a one-size-fits-all product, the GenDrive and variance of it, can go into various end markets. So you don't have to go out and kind of reinvent the wheel very much. But I'm just wondering, though, as you start to move into the on-road market, and you've talked about the power needs of, for instance, a Class 8 truck, are you going to be having to -- are you going to have to develop new platforms?

I would say, though, I'm going to tell you no and yes. Okay, I'm going to tell you, no, that these are the base platforms for the future. I'm going to tell you, yes, that I believe we're on, I'll call it, fourth generation of what may become 8 generations of products. As we continue to drive down cost, make the units lighter weight, make them more reliable, have them run more hours, I think -- and make them smaller and more efficient, I think we'll always be platform-based, that those platforms will be -- continuously will evolve and improve over time. I don't think you can build -- I think in a business, this new -- that you're going to stop. And I worked in the wireless market in the '80s. And what a wireless radio looks like today is a lot different than it looked like in 1985, and fuel cells will go through the same evolution. And we have the skills and talents to drive us to better-performing products -- better-performing, lower-cost products in the future.

So in short, going into a more power-hungry application would be a sort of evolution, not a complete rethink of the platform?

Pardon me, again, I'm sorry, I missed that question.

No, I just want to make sure that we're not sort of about to see a little bit of a leap of faith as you'd launch a new platform to go after the high-power applications?

No.

It sounds not. It sounds like it's just going to be an evolution of the existing platform, right?

Yes. I mean we have units for running at that platform level now.

Okay. Got it.

I mean it's an evolution of it. It's an evolution. It's essentially -- it's a bigger MEA and bigger plate, more cells together, very -- it is a very -- now -- and that's not required to let us move to the next level.

Got it. And then the other thing, Andy, I don't think any of us have seen situations like this, or at least very -- infrequently, to say the least. There's so many opportunities opening up at once. And I'm just wondering, are you actually turning down, not just customers, but actual segments of the market in order to moderate the risk of the overall endeavor?

Yes. So I've always been a believer in -- your biggest success comes from working with big customers who can help you scale. And once you scale, you can start selling the products to smaller customers. It's actually what we did in material handling. I'm not looking to do deals with small companies which don't let us move forward. And quite honestly, there's -- if you look at the announcements of people we're working with, Amazon, Walmart, Home Depot, SK, Renault, these are all people that can move the ball forward. And we say no most of the time. I probably have a list of 100 acquisitions that have come through my doors in the last 6 months. And obviously, like -- almost like a venture capital, 95% of them, 95% to 98% of them have been those. But -- so we say no more than you may think. We've also -- I think this is important, we're scaling our executive team and our organization. I mean, today, we have 1,200 or 1,300 employees at Plug, and last year, at this time, was 850 or 900. And there'll be more this time next in 2021, 2022. And I think last week, you saw I made a -- hired a senior executive from Air Liquide who's been working the hydrogen industry, helped them build plants, general manager of countries, general manager of Air Liquide hydrogen business in the U.S. I mean we're adding senior talent also to help us scale. So we're saying no, and we're also hiring. And I think you'll see more hiring of real talented individuals to help continue to build those business.

There are no additional questions at this time. I'd like to turn the call back to Andy Marsh for closing remarks.

Thank you, everyone. I appreciate you joining the call today. And as you can see, Plug Power has ambitious plans for 2021. And we look forward to the year-end's earnings call, which should be somewhere, I think, at the end of February. So thanks, everyone. Talk to you soon. Bye now.

This concludes today's conference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.