Plus Therapeutics, Inc. (PSTV) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary
November 19, 2020
Earnings Call Speaker Segments
Marc Hedrick
executiveGood afternoon. Welcome to our investor update call on our Phase I ReSPECT trial for recurrent glioblastoma. As a reminder, please review our forward-looking statements language that can be found in this investor deck or other investor-oriented presentations. My name is Marc Hedrick. I'm President and CEO of Plus Therapeutics. I'll lead the call through our planned 1-hour agenda. First, I'll present a brief overview on Plus, then the team will talk about recurrent glioblastoma as a disease target. And then we'll talk about the results of the ReSPECT trial thus far, and then we'll hear from a patient. Following the patient, we'll then have time for Q&A. Joining me this afternoon are Dr. Gregory Stein, Senior Vice President of Clinical Development at Plus Therapeutics; and also, we're fortunate to have Dr. Andrew Brenner, Associate Professor of Medicine, Neurology and Neurosurgery at UT Health Science Center at San Antonio. So with regard to Plus Therapeutics, our focus is on the discovering, developing and delivering complex and innovative treatments for patients battling against rare cancers. For those of you that are new to the company, we are a NASDAQ-traded company based in Austin, Texas, with a proprietary nanoparticle drug development platform. We have 3 clinical stage oncology drugs in development, and our lead drug, RNL is funded by the NIH and specifically the national cancer institutes. Our technology platform is based on our expertise in developing, manufacturing and scaling up liposomal or nanoparticle drugs containing a variety of active pharmaceutical ingredients. Most recently, we added proprietary technology to our platform that allows us to encapsulate a variety of radionuclides in our liposomal constructs. We have 3 clinical development stage drugs, but today, our plan is to focus only on our investigational drug, RNL for recurrent glioblastoma. And so with that, I'd like to introduce Dr. Greg Stein, Senior Vice President of Clinical Development, who will present an overview on the use of RNL-186 for recurrent GBM. Dr. Stein?
Gregory Stein
executiveThanks, Marc. Appreciate that. So glioblastoma and recurrent glioblastoma, unfortunately, is almost universally fatal. The incidence rate is about 6.5 per 100,000, and in the U.S., that translates to approximately 12,000 patients a year. In the EU 5, about 11,000 and probably 12,000, 13,000 more broadly across the EU and close to 5,000 patients in Japan. Nearly 100% of patients were diagnosed with glioblastoma ultimately have recurrence. And once recurrence occurs, overall survival is measured in months, somewhere in the range of 5.6 to 10 months depending on a variety of factors. Now following standard of care treatment and recurrence, the treatment options for the patients is somewhat less well defined. There is the opportunity to have a second surgery. The patient can be retreated with radiation. They can be treated again with temozolomide. Those 3 therapies really form the core of the initial upfront therapy. They can also be treated with bevacizumab or other drugs such as lomustine. These drugs do provide some palliation, but in general, provide very limited benefit in terms of overall survival. And because of this, there is a significant unmet need in recurrent glioblastoma for an effective therapy. Now briefly, RNL or rhenium-186 nanoliposome has 3 core components and a unique delivery system. At the heart is rhenium-186. This is already a nuclei that is a beta and gamma energy emitter. 90% of the energy is beta energy, and these are high energy electrons that travel, on average, in tissue, about 1 to 2 millimeters in distance. So we can control very tightly where the radiation energy goes. And the rhenium-186 has a half-life of 90 hours, meaning that within -- over the course of a couple of weeks, most of the activity has decayed. Now rhenium-186 is bound to a molecule called BMEDA. And BMEDA allows us to secure the rhenium-186 in a small 100-nanometer liposome, which is stable and retains the rhenium-186. And we deliver this via a method called convection-enhanced delivery. And this is simply a catheter that is inserted by a neurosurgeon directly into the tumor mass or very close to it. And then using a hydrostatic pressure wave, the drug is dispersed throughout the tumor and surrounding tissue as needed. Now the core value proposition for RNL is -- really covers 2 key aspects, but the retention of the drug in the tumor and the effective dispersion of the drug throughout the tumor. Now if we look here at the graph and these photos down here, rhenium that is not in a liposome quickly clears, here is time from the tissue and is very highly concentrated. Once we put it in a nanoliposome, it stays for a long period of time, and we're able to much more easily get good dispersion throughout the tumor, and these are from rat models here. Now preclinically, we see a survival benefit in both U87 and U251 models. And in the pictures here, we can see the tumor going away and actual ablation of the tumor over time. Whereas in the control, the tumor continues to grow. RNL preclinically has also been shown to be quite safe. In a GLP toxicology study, doses up to 6 millicuries were administered and the absorbed dose was 360 Gray, which is about 10x what is typically given in the recurrent setting for humans. And at that dose, we saw no adverse effect limit and this was the dose that was taken into the clinical trial. So very briefly, the clinical plan is one in which we preoperatively take the patient's scan and the neurosurgeon and Dr. Brenner plan out where the catheters will be placed, and there is very complex software that allows them to do this. The patients then admitted to the hospital and then for us, this becomes day 1, neurosurgeon, using stereotactic surgery equipment, drills a very small hole in the patient's skull and advances the catheters into the tumor. These are secured and the patient then returns to their room. The following day, the patient then is transferred down to the nuclear medicine department where RNL is delivered by convection-enhanced delivery. And in real time, we can visualize that delivery. And 2 days later, the patient is discharged home and able then to continue on with their normal activities. And with that, I'll turn it back over to you, Marc.
Marc Hedrick
executiveThanks, Greg. So now I'd like to take the time to introduce Dr. Andrew Brenner. Dr. Brenner, as I mentioned, is the principal investigator of the ReSPECT trial and associate professor at UT San Antonio. Dr. Brenner? Dr. Brenner, are you still with us? Dr. Brenner? Chantel, the operator, could you mind just checking if you still see Dr. Brenner's image on the -- on your...
Dr. Andrew Brenner
attendeeSorry, I froze up.
Marc Hedrick
executiveOh, there he is. Hey, Dr. Brenner, can you hear me, okay?
Dr. Andrew Brenner
attendeeYes. I can hear you fine. Sorry, I froze up just for a second here.
Marc Hedrick
executiveOkay. I was going to tell a Texas A&M joke. So good thing, I didn't have to do that. So -- as you resume, please kick it off whenever you're ready.
Dr. Andrew Brenner
attendeeLet me just get the slides back up here because it's not showing anything.
Marc Hedrick
executiveNo worries.
Dr. Andrew Brenner
attendeeWhat slide number are we on? We're on...
Marc Hedrick
executive17, I believe?
Dr. Andrew Brenner
attendeeOkay. Now I can see the slide.
Marc Hedrick
executiveIt's title, ReSPECT U.S. Phase I clinical trial.
Dr. Andrew Brenner
attendeeYes, advanced. But it's not showing on mine, but I'll just use -- I have them here. So the clinical trial was designed as a multicenter study with the open label. So everybody knew what they were getting and it's an escalation in both the volume administering as well as the dose. And the idea is to find the safety, the tolerability and the distribution of the drug using this convection-enhanced delivery technique that Dr. Stein talked about a moment ago. And the patient population is a recurrent glioblastoma patient population after they've already received standard surgery, radiation and chemotherapy. Study design, again, is a prospective study. We use something called the modified Fibonacci scheme where we're doubling the dose, and then we increase in fractions thereafter. And the idea is to find the recommended Phase II dose, the dose we're going to evaluate more broadly. We plan for up to 55 patients, and the 55 patients includes both the dose escalation part as well as a planned expansion or a Phase II portion, where we're looking at the activity. The fifth cohort has just recently been completed. We're now in the sixth cohort. And I'll move on to the next slide here. So this just show...
Marc Hedrick
executiveI'll advance for you, Andrew. So just go ahead and just give me the heads up, I'll advance.
Dr. Andrew Brenner
attendeeSo in terms of dose escalation, this is showing what the different dose levels we're looking at. We are currently at the cohort 6, which we're infusing a dose of 22.3 millicuries in a volume of 8.8 milliliters. I'm showing the data today up to 13.4 millicuries in a volume of 5.28 milliliters. Next slide. This is a summary of the patients and shows what we've seen both in terms of outcomes as well as the patients, what they received. We started at a dose of 1 millicurie in a volume of 0.6 mls. We saw a very small volume, sort of with a single catheter and a low flow rate, and we have subsequently with each cohort, increased the dose that we administered by dose doubling, and now we're in this fractionation portion. So it went from 1 to 2 to 4 to 8 and now -- and then 13.4, and the volume went up as well to 5.28. We increased the number of catheters starting with 1 catheter to make sure that we could describe the distribution of the drug. And now we're at 3 catheters and we've also increased the infusion rate, which is important both for the timing of the procedure to shorten the length of the procedure as well as to increase the volume of treatment. With higher rates, we can get a higher treatment volume. And you can see here some encouraging signs for survival, and I'll show more of that on that in a moment. Next slide, please. So this shows the safety data from the patients treated through cohort 5. It's important to note here that, as indicated below, that neither the incidence nor the severity of the adverse effects appear to increase with increasing doses of RNL. So that's a very promising signal that with increasing doses, we're not seeing increasing toxicity, which means this is a safe drug. And most of the AEs were considered to be causly unrelated to rhenium nanoliposome with the exception of scalp discomfort, which is an expected potential side effect from having the catheters placed surgically. Next slide. So as we went up on the volume, we went up on the size of the tumors we were treating. We did not want to treat larger tumors, which could not be adequately covered by the therapy. And you can see here that with each cohort, the size of tumors went up, and we are now routinely treating patients with tumors between 15 and 20 milliliters, which corresponds to almost a 3-centimeter tumor. And when we look at the doses that were achieved to the tumor volume, we see that we are getting now in the most recent cohorts, routinely between 300 and just over 500 Gray of absorbed. And it's important to note that in the recurrent setting by external beam radiation, we typically only use doses around 30 Gray. So anywhere from 15 to 20-fold the customary external beam dose that we would give. The median absorbed dose to the tumor volume across all subjects was 15 and patients who failed bevacizumab, it was much lower 38 Gray. And we think this is due to the effect of the bevacizumab on the convection volume that actually interferes with the convection and when there's some biology behind that. For patients who were bevacizumab naive, the dose that was achieved to the tumor volume was around 367 Gray and the maximum dose to the tumor volume was 593 Gray. Next slide, please. This just shows the absorbed doses in the tumor compared to the brain as a whole as well as the entire body. And so in green there is the -- to the tumor volume. And you can see with the most recent cohort that we're reporting 13.4 millicurie, cohort 5, patients had a total absorbed dose to the tumor volume of 423 Gray, whereas, their -- surrounding a brain only received the total dose of less than 1 Gray, 0.4 Gray. And to the whole body, it was very negligible at 0.1 Gray. These are insignificant doses. And the ratio of the dose to the tumor volume compared to the body is greater than 3,000. Next slide. This gives you an idea of the delivery of the rhenium nanoliposome. So on the top row there, you see the patient's MRI. In the first column is the axial plane. The middle column is the sagittal plane, and the last column in the -- a coronal plane. And you could see 24 hours after the infusion, you see the distribution in the middle row of the rhenium nanoliposome. It's based on SPECT/CT imaging. And you can see on the MRI above it we have the outline of that to correspond to the area that was treated. And then when you look at 120 hours, we see excellent retention. All of the radioactivity remains within the tumor volume. So excellent coverage as well as retention. And in this case, a tumor volume was 6.5 mls, and the coverage was greater than 98% with an absorbed dose of tumor volume of nearly 420 Gray. Next slide, please. So this shows one of our patients over time. Again, this is in the axial plane, and you can see that patient who had excellent coverage, has tumor initially day minus 5, which is 5 days before the treatment. The second image is day 28, then day 118 and then day 362. And so over a year out, we're seeing some decrease in the enhancement or the tumor volume. And the patient remains alive and is nearly 2 years out from his initial treatment. Next slide. This is one of our more recent patients. And you can see on top, the image of the tumor, the large enhancing volume there. Again, axial in the first, sagittal in the second and the coronal in the third column. And then 24 hours later, we see the absorbed dose to the tumor. And at 120 hours in the bottom row, you can see it's actually spread out a little bit evenly, even get better coverage at 120 hours. So excellent retention, good tumor coverage. The tumor volume, in this case, was higher than that last patient I showed you and it was almost 19 milliliters, and the coverage was 87%. The amount that was absorbed to the tumor was 336 Gray. At 24 hours, even the most anterior portion that we were -- maybe not covering was covered as we distribute. And the entire tumor was in the distribution and the purple line on the top figure there. Next slide. This shows the effect. And so you see in the first column before treatment, and day 56 on the second column. And you see the loss of all that white there, which is the enhancement and corresponds to tumor. We know that, that's a loss of tumor because in the figure below it, you'll see what we call is rCBV map, which shows the perfusion or the blood vessel supply. And so we see a loss of that perfusion in that image below. And then in another image, in the second grouping there, you see the enhancing tumor and the third column and the loss of that enhancement in the fourth column. And again, associated below that with an increased rCBV or increased blood flow to the tumor, pretreatment and a complete loss of that blood flow post-treatment at day 56. Next slide, this is a review of the survival to date, looking at the patients who had not received bevacizumab and who have received bevacizumab. It's important to note that for patients who fail bevacizumab, their survival at that point is significantly shorter and ranges from 90 to 120 days. The typical survival for patients who have not received bevacizumab yet is about 8.3 months, depending on what studies we look at. And we can see some very encouraging signs in terms of survival in these patients. The patients, indicated by the green circles, are patients such as our patients here today, who has been recently treated and continue to be followed for their survival, and who will continue to do very well, but we do have some encouraging signs here. The median survival duration of the subjects that had failed bevacizumab was 4.8 months, which is just a little bit above what we see for the general population. And then median and mean survival duration in subjects that were bevacizumab-naive was 11 months and 15.4 months, with 4 of our patients still recently ongoing and recently treated. Next slide. So with this the conclusion is that we can deliver up to 15x and maybe even if we consider the recurrent doses up to the 20x in short doses of radiation administered by external beam radiation therapy, and we're not seeing significant evidence of toxicity. It's also important to note that this is administered within a few days, whereas, external beam radiation is administered over weeks. These data indicate that intratumoral administration of RNL by CED at doses up to 13.4 millicuries is safe and well tolerated. No treatment related adverse effects noted thus far and maximum tolerated dose not yet reached. Prior administration of bevacizumab seems to negatively impact convection of RNL. And in the subsequent survival study and the Phase II study, we do not plan to enroll patients with bevacizumab, and that's pretty standard for Phase II studies. And the current status we are on cohort 6, we've recently administered 22.3 millicuries and 8.8 mls, and we have 2 more patients upcoming in the upcoming 2 weeks. With that, I'll stop.
Marc Hedrick
executiveThank you, Dr. Brenner. So yesterday, I actually had the opportunity to speak with Phyllis, who is a ReSPECT clinical trial patient. She is 1 of the 2 patients that have been most recently treated that Dr. Brenner had referred to previously. She's had 2 previous surgeries, prior to getting into the trial, chemo and radiation. And I felt like it was good to get her to talk about her experience with RNL as it related to the other treatments she'd have. So I'd like to just let her talk in her own words. There we are. Hi, Phyllis. Are you able to hear and see me okay?
Phyllis M.
attendeeYes.
Marc Hedrick
executiveOkay. Good. Well, hey, thank you for taking the time, and you are currently a patient that's participating in the ReSPECT clinical trial for RNL-186 for patients with recurrent glioblastoma. So first of all, I just want to thank you for participating in the trial and then agreeing to just talk for a few minutes.
Phyllis M.
attendeeOkay. You're welcome.
Marc Hedrick
executiveHow are you doing generally?
Phyllis M.
attendeeI'm hanging in there. I haven't had any major side effects that had caused me to be incapacitated?
Marc Hedrick
executiveYes. Well, you look good from here. So, we've got -- Phyllis, we've got a couple of questions for you that I thought might be a good way to kind of assess the -- how things are going with you with respect to the treatment. So maybe kind of going backwards a little bit, would you mind telling us a little bit about how you found out that you were sick? And then how the treatments and the overall experience that you've had thus far?
Phyllis M.
attendeeSure. So my initial diagnosis was through a seizure. I was actually working as a veterinarian technician, which was my career. And I went into work that day, not really knowing what was going on with me. Physically, I was kind of out of it. It happened to be a surgery day. So my coworkers noticed that I wasn't myself, and brought me into the surgical unit and kind of talked to me and said, "Something's not right with you." So they called my husband. And he actually came picked me up, and we went to the medical center. And that's where they did the first scan and saw something suspicious. So they then transferred me to a different hospital by ambulance. And then that's where I stayed, and that's where I was diagnosed with suspicious growth, but not diagnosed at the time. So we went ahead and did the first surgery. At that time, I was diagnosed with the astrocytoma Grade II, and it looked like we had got it all. And fortunately, we know now that wasn't the case. So from there, I did the at-home Temodar radiation treatment [ once in ] 30 days of the recommended treatment. And then in August, found out that the tumor wasn't responding. It actually had grown quite a bit. So then that's where [ Dr. Floyd ], my surgeon came into the case, which Dr. Brenner was already on the case with me. So then [ Dr. Floyd ] agreed to go in and basically, kind of redo the section and kind of try to give us a fresh start. And then at that time, I went on study of the -- it's a long name, but it's sassy, you probably have some history there. That was used in case where breast cancer metastasize, they were finding ever having some results when it went to the brain. So this was a new study that we started. I had the first treatment. Basically, the night before my surgery, excuse me. And did that and did that for several months, then found out I wasn't responding to that anymore. So that's when the next study was offered to me with catheters, with radiation straight into the tumor.
Marc Hedrick
executiveSo like you've had a couple of surgeries, so far, before you even got into the study.
Phyllis M.
attendeeCorrect. This last one, yes.
Marc Hedrick
executiveSo you found out about the trial with the catheters and the radiation, the RNL trial through [ Dr. Floyd ] and Dr. Brenner?
Phyllis M.
attendeeCorrect.
Marc Hedrick
executiveSo how did you find that treatment experience with the RNL? That's a little different than having surgery, I guess.
Phyllis M.
attendeeYes, it was -- I had it right there at my birthday. So it was a little scary, but -- so I found it a lot easier than actually having surgery. I recovered really well. It was a low pain level. So -- and they said I was one of the best patients. So I took pride in that.
Marc Hedrick
executiveWell, that's great. And you were in the hospital for a couple of days around the time that you had the catheters and the infusion?
Phyllis M.
attendeeCorrect. So I think I went in on the 14th and actually had it on the 15th, which was my birthday, so that's easy to remember. So they did the actual placement of the brain and stuff on my birthday and then took all the pictures and everything. And then I had -- once I got discharged, I came back every day and got like a scan to make sure that we were getting good absorption, that it wasn't leaking out. So they were very happy with how much they were able to get in there and how much it retained. So I would say I'm a success story so far.
Marc Hedrick
executiveYou look good to me from here. So whatever you're doing, keep doing it. How do -- how is RNL treatment kind of versus radiation? It sounds like you had a -- about a month-long course of radiation.
Phyllis M.
attendeeNo. The radiation, it does make you really tired. So that was probably the toughest part. And then as far as side effects afterwards, there was some side effects like just forgetting things and of course, I had to be on kind of the high-dose steroids to keep the brain swelling down. So that would probably be my thing that I disliked the most is the side effects from the steroids. But nothing that I would call major like where I can't function or -- yes, there were some things that I would've liked and done without, but things have side effects. It's just part of most medical procedures, I think.
Marc Hedrick
executiveDid the catheters bother you when they took them out? And was the infusion difficult for you or...
Phyllis M.
attendeeNo. I mean it was more patience. I felt like the center of attention, I was everybody's center of attention with the doctor. So yes, I mean it was kind of a slow process. I was in there for several hours. But that was probably -- the most trying time was just the patience of laying there, why they did all that.
Marc Hedrick
executiveThey were infusing into the catheters, right, the RNL?
Phyllis M.
attendeeNo, I think I missed some of the trial and error was prior -- that they had gone through with prior patients, so I was kind of at an advantage there.
Marc Hedrick
executiveSo would you recommend this to other patients, let's say, that other patients that might be interested in the trial? Or maybe 1 day, hopefully, if this gets approved by the FDA, would you recommend that treatment to other patients?
Phyllis M.
attendeeI would. I would. I mean, I think it was successful seeing my tumor is so far stable and not growing crazy like we know they can. So I'm very happy about that.
Marc Hedrick
executiveYes. Great. Well, look, I don't want to take up too much of your time, but I really appreciate it. Anything else you'd like to say or tell us regarding your experience as a patient with the RNL-186?
Phyllis M.
attendeeI just think it's good that if people can volunteer, it's all got to be a case by case, but I think this is how we sometimes get somewhere further in our studies. I don't look at myself as anybody special. I'm just trying to maybe help another human and hopefully, this will be that.
Marc Hedrick
executiveWell, Phyllis, thank you very much, and I look forward to talking to you again. And obviously, if anything we can do to help, please let us know. And take care. Keep up the great work, you really -- you look great, and it sounds like everything is going really well.
Phyllis M.
attendeeWell, thank you, Marc. Have a good rest of your day.
Marc Hedrick
executiveYou, too. Take care. That was Phyllis. So let's close out the presentation, and then let's go to Q&A. There are a number of questions that are in the queue. So in terms of forthcoming milestones for 2020 and 2021, our plan is to complete enrollment in the U.S. ReSPECT Phase I clinical trial, report the final ReSPECT data and determine a Phase II pivotal dose recommendation. We potentially will seek U.S. FDA Breakthrough Therapy designation and European orphan drug designation for RNL in rGBM. We also intend to complete the key CMC and GMP commercial scale-up activities for manufacturing of RNL and also optimize the regulatory strategy and follow-on clinical trial plan for RNL as it relates to GBM. We also intend to complete IND-enabling studies for the first follow-on RNL indication beyond GBM and explore secret support for our ongoing RNL development, and then we'll continue to explore partnering support not only for RNL, but for our other 2 clinical stage assets. So with that, Chantel, I think you have something you'd like to read to potentially provide guidance on how to ask questions.
Operator
operator[Operator Instructions]
Marc Hedrick
executiveSo let me just read the first question. So the first question is about the use of steroids and requirement for steroids in RNL treatment or just standard radiation. Dr. Brenner, what is the -- how do we use steroids in this trial?
Dr. Andrew Brenner
attendeeSo in order to not mass toxicity, we do not pretreat with any steroids. [ Investigators ] are encouraged to use them if needed after the treatment. We haven't had any, Marc, steroid needs. We have had patients that have intermittently required steroids. Some patients with GBM have chronic steroid needs and that -- it's just as the nature of their tumor, and so we have had patients that have had to continue on their steroids. We have had patients that have had to temporarily increase their steroids. But so far, we haven't seen any dramatic increase in edema associated with the treatment.
Marc Hedrick
executiveGreat. The next question is about the RNL, how long does it stay in the brain? And can you talk about, Dr. Brenner, the adverse effects on normal brain tissue? And what you've observed thus far in these patients? And kind of how does that compare with external beam radiation?
Dr. Andrew Brenner
attendeeSo the rhenium just decays. And as mentioned by Dr. Stein earlier, it does decay over a period of a couple of weeks. The only thing that really remains, number one, the liposomes are made of material with the same cell membranes are made of. So it just becomes inconsequential. And then the BMEDA is present in very small amounts. The amounts that we use are considered trace amounts in order to trap the rhenium. And it's a stable molecule that is relatively inert. So we don't see any significant [ toxins ] from that. In terms of the normal brain, first of all, the path length is very short. So this only goes where we put it. So as opposed to external beam radiation, photons have to pass-through the surrounding normal brain in order to reach their target. We use things like tomotherapy, which is really a numerable number of beams as the -- as it spins around, we modify the beam shape, so there is some conformity to it. But ultimately, the photons still have to pass-through a normal brain. And that's why you have a very neurotherapeutic window when it comes to external beam radiation. Whereas, these beta particles only have a path length of a couple of millimeters. They go where we put them. There is some radiobiology published in terms of beta -- there's some toxicity versus photons, and it is different. I don't claim to be a radiobiologist. I'm not going to go too far into that, but suffice it to say that, that for a normal cell, they should be able to tolerate dramatically higher doses. Number one, because they should be quite [ quiescent ] and not replicating. And number two, they have their checkpoints in place. So DNA repair pathways remain in place in those cells where they're aggregated in the tumor cells. So it's expected that similar to radioactive iodine therapy, where we can give hundreds of Gray of dose for thyroid cancer without seeing toxicity to the surrounding neck that this will be very tolerable for the surrounding normal tissues.
Marc Hedrick
executiveNext question, also for you, Dr. Brenner, is what is the median follow-up time in the 15 patients as well as stratified by bev experience? In other words, sort of naive versus bev recurrent? Dr. Brenner, are you still with us? No, Dr. Brenner is not with us. I will save that question in case he joins back in. Next question for you, Dr. Stein. What was the tumor coverage percentage in the bev naive versus the bev pretreated patients?
Gregory Stein
executiveGood question. So on average in the bev-naive patients, and there were 7 of the -- or I'm sorry, in the bev-treated patients, there were 7 of those. And on average, we only get about 40% tumor coverage in the bev-naive patients across all 8. It was about 80%. And in the last few patients, it's been around 90%. Some of the early ones with such small volume that it was difficult to get full coverage. But clearly, a significant difference between those who had been pretreated with bevacizumab and those who had not. And then I can maybe -- unless Dr. Brenner is back on, I can...
Marc Hedrick
executiveGo ahead, Greg -- Dr. Brenner, go ahead, if you're back on, and would you like me to read the question again?
Dr. Andrew Brenner
attendeeWhat was the question, Marc?
Marc Hedrick
executiveThe question was, what's the median follow-up time in the 15 patients as well as stratified by bevacizumab experience, in other words, naive versus bev recurrent?
Dr. Andrew Brenner
attendeeSo the cohort first. So we're probably, in some of those patients, as you can see, are well beyond 30 months. Of the ones that are active, those were the green circles. We do have 3 patients that are currently within the last 4 months. And we have, I think, 2 that are out past 1.5, 2 years. So I can't say -- I can't recall what the median follow-up is, but it's probably going to be -- it's going to be a pretty big range because we just started pushing the accrual again recently.
Marc Hedrick
executiveThere we are. Phyllis, can you hear and see me okay?
Dr. Andrew Brenner
attendeeAnd the question was in terms of the bev-naive patients, we pretty much stopped accruing them after cohort 4. There were no further bev-refractory patients after a cohort 4. So cohort 5 was completely bev naive. And then the first cohort was completely bev naive as well.
Marc Hedrick
executiveSo Dr. Brenner, another related question. What historical survival range for beva-failed recurrence and beva-naive recurrence are you using? Is the data, thus far, in the range of survival data in these settings that has been shown with beva and/or beva plus chemo? I think you sort of partially addressed that, but would you elaborate further on that?
Dr. Andrew Brenner
attendeeSo there are multiple studies in terms of the survival both for bev naive and bev failure. We recently published as part of the Phase II study of VB-111, we went back and did a meta-analysis of all the studies to look at survival for patients who went on subsequent studies. And it was around 8.3 months. So for bev-naive patients, it's 8.3 months. For a second bev -- for patients who failed bevacizumab, on one of the second regimen, if they did not receive bevacizumab, it was relatively short. It was only about 2 to 3 months. And if they went -- if they maintained bevacizumab, it was 3 to 4 months. So not much difference there, but some slight difference if they continue bevacizumab.
Marc Hedrick
executiveOkay. Great. We've got 3 questions from the same questioner. Question 1 is, how do these results compare to standard of care?
Dr. Andrew Brenner
attendeeWell, we -- so let's talk about standard of care a little briefly. So for standard of care, we don't have really any FDA-approved options except for really Avastin. I mean, we do use things like Avastin plus lomustine, lomustine PCV, irinotecan, carboplatin, those things do not have any proven survival benefit. So we really have nothing with proven-survival benefit after recurrence from chemo radiation and tumor treatment fields. Once those 3 modalities are given its kind of a physician's choice and nothing really is going to make a difference. So there really is kind of no well-established standard of care that improves survival as of yet. So it's really too early to make an efficacy analysis with a handful of patients. I think what I would point at is that the -- from the few patients we have that are bevacizumab-naive, it's very encouraging. And we need to go and do additional studies to look at a larger number of patients, and that's our intent. The other thing that's really important to make mention of the study is we are only just now getting into the doses that we really want to give when we're giving doses large enough to cover reasonable-sized tumors. So this next couple of cohorts or this -- expanding this cohort and looking at the patients that we're now treating in the next few weeks is going to be very exciting as well as important for us in terms of where we are with the recommended Phase II dose.
Marc Hedrick
executiveSecond question from this questioner is how would you expect RNL therapy to perform if patients are treated earlier in their course?
Dr. Andrew Brenner
attendeeWell, obviously, earlier is better. And there's a couple of different indications where we are thinking about. Number one is for patients with biopsy-only disease who are not able to undergo debulking. This could potentially be augmented -- it could be a therapy where you can augment external beam radiation. So -- and those patients are typically diagnosed with biopsy dropping a catheter at the time of that diagnosis and treating them right away, getting their treatment done within a couple of days before they even get external beam radiation would be very attractive. The other patient population is, if you think about the MGMT unmethylated patients, those patients don't do well long term, and they get no benefit from temozolomide. So obviously, it would be attractive to do that. First, we need to get to the recommended Phase II dose, know what our Phase II dose is and expand in terms of the current setting. Then we'll know better how to move forward in terms of newly diagnosed setting, but there certainly would be some enthusiasm for looking earlier in the course of the disease.
Marc Hedrick
executiveOkay. Andrew again for you. Although the data seem early, and we're still in dose escalation. However, can you tell what number of months survival? In other words, how -- what's the length of survival that would be meaningful in your mind? And how does the quality of life matter as bev has some side effects in the recurrent setting?
Dr. Andrew Brenner
attendeeYes. That's a great question. And I think Phyllis said this a little bit. But you have to remember when you're getting the initial radiation therapy that you are -- you're getting -- you're going for radiation every day for 6 straight weeks, Monday through Friday. This is given in 3 days and you're done. And you really kind of just sit in the hospital for a few days, which is -- the biggest negative is that you have to be there for a few days. But it's very tolerable in terms of that, at least so far. So -- and then when you think about other therapies, a lot of times, you don't have to give just bevacizumab. You give bev plus you give irinotecan or you give lomustine, et cetera. And those are -- show some significant toxicities. And we do that really to try and keep the disease at bay, but without any real promise of survival advantage for the average patient at least. Some patients might, but on average, it doesn't increase survival. So what's meaningful? I think that's up to -- there's maybe higher powers than us, but I think if we told most patients that a 2- or 3-day procedure would improve their survival by 2 months, will they take it? I'd say the vast majority would. Ideally, I think what you would hope is that you would get some longer-term gains. And we are seeing that with a few patients. It remains to be seen, and when we get to a larger number of patients. But I'd say that at least a 20% to 25% improvement in survival would be something that we'd want to go to in terms of goal post. For the Phase II that we have -- as it's designed right now, that's kind of what we're looking at is an improvement to a little over 10 months. But we still have to determine where we are with the -- in terms of the recommend Phase II dose before making hard decisions on the subsequent trial.
Marc Hedrick
executiveGreat. So next question, I'll give this to Dr. Stein. What are the next steps for the Phase I enrollment, Phase II or other clinical trial plan?
Gregory Stein
executiveThanks, Marc. So we need to complete cohort 6, and that would be 2 more patients, and then we'll evaluate the data and see where we're at. The ultimate decision at that point, we have to go to the data safety monitoring board, if we're considering further dose escalation, which will allow us to potentially treat larger tumors. Although at this point, we can treat a tumor that's probably about the size of a golf ball. So that's a good number of the tumors that patients will typically present with. And the real goal at this point is to develop some confidence in the recommended Phase II dose and feel like we are comfortable with the number of catheters, we have the right flow rate. We are confident in the size of the tumors we can treat. And then from there, we'll take that into our Phase II pivotal trial design.
Marc Hedrick
executiveDr. Brenner, anything to add to that?
Dr. Andrew Brenner
attendeeNo. I think that summarizes it well. I mean, I think before we make any hard decisions, we really have to learn a little bit more in terms of both the delivery and the tolerability at higher doses so that we can maximize the potential benefit for patients when we get into a Phase II trial.
Marc Hedrick
executiveSo 2 more questions, and that ought to get us right at an hour. One question, I guess for you, Dr. Brenner, is these patients are getting a significant amount of radiation injected directly into the body. What are the precautions that these patients need to adhere to? Or their family members or caregivers, are they need to -- do we need to put them in isolation? Or how is that handled, clinically?
Dr. Andrew Brenner
attendeeYes. That's a really good question, and this goes back to the safety of beta emitters. So there's a couple of different points to this. First, what we know from all the pharmacokinetics that we've done so far is that whatever is [ now ] trapped is rapidly cleared from the system. So the liposomes get retained within the tumor. Anything that doesn't get retained, gets picked up, the liposomes get processed and the rhenium gets dumped. Rhenium gets really quickly cleared from the kidneys, so we see almost complete clearance of any radioactivity that's going to be left behind. That's not what -- that are retained within the tissue is cleared within a couple of days. As a matter of fact, we stopped even looking beyond 2 days because in all the patients we've treated so far, all the radioactivity was eliminated through the urine within that first 2 days. So there's really no precautions. The radiation can't make it all the way through the skull. And the urine is basically clean after they leave the hospital. So there's really not much to look at or to be concerned about or precautions that need to be used thereafter.
Marc Hedrick
executiveGreat. There are a couple more questions, and I think probably in the interest of time, we'll cut it off with these last two. The question is, how long does RNL lead to start showing effects? Presumably, those are imaging-related effects. Slide 24 suggests that the tumor gets larger before it starts getting smaller. Dr. Brenner, can you address that?
Dr. Andrew Brenner
attendeeYes. That's an excellent question, actually. So we have seen both. We've seen cases where enhancement just quickly disappears. Perfusion gets -- has gone, and we see that within 2 months, as in one case. Or in other cases, we do see some evidence of potential what we call, pseudoprogression where it looks a little bit worse at first, and there might be some edema and that it kind of gets better over time. So we haven't fully characterized this yet. And this is where having more patients will better let us understand what to expect in terms of which patients might have some immediate response and some patients might have some pseudoprogression. There's a lot to learn still, but both of those seem to -- still be possibilities based on what we're seeing.
Marc Hedrick
executiveGreat. So I'll make this the last question. So we've got about 5 or 7 minutes so we can end right on time. But the question is about surgical planning, the accuracy of catheter placements and the ability to obliterate the tumor that is enhancing. But how do you place the catheters in such a way that you could also target the non-enhancing tumor that might be responsible for recurrences?
Dr. Andrew Brenner
attendeeYes. We're very fortunate to be in a time right now where we have excellent convection-based tools. We use the Brainlab system, which includes the iPlan Flow software together with the VarioGuide system and a flexible catheter. That system has great accuracy. The main limitation is the -- is how you coregister intraoperatively. And we have seen that there is maybe some variability there, especially when we look at the posterior tumors. There's some things we can do. We can use fiducials, which are some things that we can attach to the skull itself, so that when we get into the operating room, we have maximum precision. But we're able to get pretty darn accurate with the fusion techniques we use even without the fiducials. In terms of where we place the catheters, this is a lot of -- it depends when you -- and you talk to the community, there's different opinions about where the catheter should be put. Some people say, let's drop it right in the middle of the tumor. We've kind of taken more of the approach that we want to place it more in the leading edge of the enhancement where the area of infiltrating tumor exists. And so that's what we've been doing. And when we do that, we are actually, in terms of looking at volume metrics. When we talk about coverage of the tumor, we're talking about the enhancing portion of the tumor because probably no criteria right now in a bevacizumab-naive patient, the enhancing component of the tumor is what is used for response. That said, we do try and cover the nonenhancing as much as possible. And now that we're getting into these much higher volumes that we're using because we keep escalating the volume we administer, and we're also increasing the rate in which we administer it, that the volume that we're able to cover is more so we can make sure to cover more of the non-enhancing tumor as well. So hopefully, we'll see even better benefit as we get to do that with higher volumes.
Marc Hedrick
executiveGreat. Well, I think we're sort of at the end of our time. For those of you that are watching this live or those of you who may watch this in recorded format, I hope this has been instructive, and I hope that it's brought you up to a higher level of understanding with respect to RNL for recurrent glioblastoma. I'd like to thank, too, Dr. Brenner for being with us and being available to answer questions, also, Dr. Stein. Perhaps most importantly, I'd like to thank the patients and the doctors and support personnel that trust us in executing this trial. And then, of course, we'd like to thank our employees. And then again, you guys that have all participated in this call. So thank you very much. Our contact information is here on the last slide of the deck. And feel free to reach out if we can answer any questions. And beyond that, have a good evening. Chantel, I think we're finished.
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