PNB Housing Finance Limited (PNBHOUSING) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good morning, and welcome to the PNB Housing Finance Limited Q4 and FY '19/'20 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note, that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Deepika Gupta Padhi. Thank you, and over to you, ma'am.

Thank you, Lisan. Good morning, and welcome, everyone. We are here to discuss PNB Housing Finance Q4 and financial year '19/'20 results. You must have seen our business and financial numbers in the presentation and the press release as shared with the Indian Stock Exchanges and are also available on our website, that is www.pnbhousing.com. With me, we have our leadership team represented by Mr. Neeraj Vyas, Managing Director and CEO; Mr. Ajay Gupta, Executive Director, Risk Management; Mr. Kapish Jain, Chief Financial Officer; Mr. Anshul Bhargava, Chief People Officer; Mr. Nitant Desai, Chief Centralized Operational and Technology Officer; Mr. Sanjay Jain, Company Secretary & Head of Compliance. Mr. Neeraj Vyas joins us as MD and CEO, effective April 28, 2020. He's a senior banking professional with over 36 years of experience across a range of diverse functions both in India and overseas. He was on the Board of PNB Housing Finance for last 1 year. He retired as Deputy Managing Director and Chief Operating Officer, State Bank of India. We will begin this call with the overview and performance update by the Managing Director followed by an interactive Q&A session. Please note, this call may contain forward-looking statements, which exemplify our judgment and future expectations concerning the development of our business. These forward-looking statements involve risks and uncertainties that may cause actual development and results to differ materially from our expectations. PNB Housing Finance undertakes no obligation to publicly revise any forward-looking statements to reflect future events or circumstances. A detailed disclaimer is on Slide 2 of the Investor Presentation available on our website. Now I will hand over the call to Mr. Neeraj Vyas for his remarks. Over to you, sir.

Thank you, Deepika, a very good morning to everyone. Welcome to Quarter 4 and Financial Year '19/'20 Earnings Call. Before I begin my disc -- unprecedented time we have, so I request all of you to kindly take care, and I hope that you are all safe. I would like to talk about the impact arising due to COVID-19 on our operations, followed by financials and business update. We are currently in unprecedented times with COVID-19 pandemic, ending by our first core venue, people first, whereby our people is our asset, the company took earlier measures to curtail the impact of COVID-19 and immediately, and seamlessly shifted to work-from-home situation. During the lockdown period, online functional and behavioral trainings were extended to our employees and selected vendors. I'm very happy to announce that in more than 44,000 man hours was spent on training in the month of April and mid-2020. Going by our next core value, customer-centric, we took measures with the help of technology so that our customers are timely responded during the lockdown. While our teams work from home, different mode of communication channels were made available to our customers. During the lockdown period, customer engagement was effectively maintained with a service stayed flat at almost around 95%. Collection was another focus area. During the period and with the slowdown in the current activity, it got hugely impacted early on. The company enhanced its collecting efforts us by using cross-functional teams. However, due to the lockdown, we could not complete various transactions including property possession, auction, fee and collection, et cetera. As a socially responsible corporate, we came forward to support our nation during these times, we allocated around INR 2 crores towards COVID-19 release through our CSR initiatives. The company is undertaking various measures to manage the current scenario and scale up in future. We are increasing our digital footprint and sourcing as well as sanctioning of loans and enhance our digital interventions and underwriting, collection and other functions. Based on the experience gathered out of COVID-19, we are in advanced stage of implementing a seamless system to -- for our customers, and I'm sure that, that would help us in reducing the paperwork that we do without any obligations. Considering the current scenario, we have tightened our underwriting policy for both retail and corporate book. Another focus of the company is on reducing costs using various measures like no new hiring, rationalization of branches and offices, where we have overlapping of the office in one city, in the first place, negotiation of rents, evaluating work-from-home options wherever possible and reduce other costs where it is almost near impossible. On the borrowing, the company continued to mobilize long-term resources through bank term loans, ECB deposits, NCDs, securitization via direct assignment route, et cetera. The incremental resource mobilization during the year was approximately INR 37,000 crores with reduced share of commercial paper and our net incremental borrowing during '19/'20 has been long-term money. We are second largest deposit taking agency in the country. And during FY '19/'20, we mobilized INR 9,000 crores of deposits. Majority of which are public deposits. To give overall picture to you, our overall public deposit or the retail deposit, as we call it is roughly around 87%. So these deposits are sticky in nature with average tenure of 41 months on an outstanding basis. Deposit as on March 31, 2020, stand at INR 16,470 crores, that is 20% of our total financial resources. Among other borrowings, we borrowed INR 750 crores from NHB under special refinance facility announced by RBI in April 2020. We are the first HFC to sign a funding of USD 75 million via ECB from JICA, that is Japan International Cooperation Agency in April 2020. With our continued focus on the long-term borrowing, securitization through direct refinement and sell-down of corporate finance assets, [ PNB ] is fairly comfortable in light of the fact, the adoption of availing moratorium for customers has been extended up to 31st August 2020. But we have not avail the option of moratorium represent to our payment obligation to bank during the moratorium period. The company has maintained excess cash and liquid investments of roughly INR 5,800 crores. As on June 5, along with undrawn and sanctioned lines of INR 4,500 crores. So overall, if you see the liquidity almost from more than INR 10,000 crores. This is subsidized as beyond end of moratorium. By which time, the liquidity situation shall further ease out. With all the measures undertaken and focus on retail disbursement, our CRAR as on 31st March '20 increased to 17.98% with Tier 1 at 15.18%, much beyond the minimum regulatory Tier 1 requirement of 10%. This has improved from CRAR of 13.98% with Tier 1 of 11% as on 31st March 2019. Please note the CRAR numbers are as for IGAAP net own funds and does not consider the impact on either side, either plus or minus of network according to IndAS adjustments. The gearing of the company is 8.5% tax as on 31st March '20, which has improved from 9.6% as on 31st March 2019. So gearing has also improved. And the CRAR, as you can see, has moved very favorably from 13% to 13.98%. Coming to businesses on 31st March '20, the assets under management is INR 83,346 crores. The share of retail loans being 82% and corporate being 18% of the assets under management. Geographically, West is our largest project, with 41% of assets under management, followed by South at 30%, and North at 29%. We have limited presence in East, with 3 branches, 2 in Calcutta and one in Bhubaneswar, which forms they are part of North zone. On 27 March '20, in order to mitigate the burden of debt servicing and provide relief to borrowers, Reserve Bank of India announced a moratorium on loans for 3 months. This was further extended by another 3 months up to August '20. We adopted opt in route as most of the IndAS fees are opted for accepting customer requests. And as on 5th June '20 end of Stage 1, approximately 56% of company's AUM have opted for moratoriums whereas under Stage 2, approximately 31% of the AUMs have opted for moratorium, indicating a sharp drop in customers requesting the moratorium. Retail loans under moratorium under Stage 1 accounts for 49% of retail loans AUM, assets under management, it got reduced to 20% under moratorium Stage 2, representing over 50% of the retail customers have not opted for moratorium in the Stage 2. This reduction has been very proactive communication strategy adopted by the company, and we interacted with the customer through our call center and through our SMS system, thereby the customers are given details of this moratorium, the benefit or what would be the liability to us, to the company when the moratorium is lifted. And a conscious vision was requested to be taken by the customer. As the first 2 communication strategy has resulted in the moratorium 2 requests coming down from 31% -- I mean getting reduced by 50% almost. With the objective of optimizing the capital consumption, and keeping in mind the lower risk rates applicable on lease and housing loans, the company has focused on disbursing in the retail segment. Retail segment contributed 92% of the total disbursement, of which 59% was disbursed towards individual housing loan segment. If you see that entire -- almost entire thing has been disbursed towards retail. A very -- small portion has gone towards wholesale. And that too, where we have already committed the lines before 31st March '19. On an overall basis, the individual housing loans constitute 58% of the assets under arrangement, retail loan against property, constitute 20% and retail non-residential premises loan is 4% of the assets under management. That's the retail portion of the assets under management has moved up by 4% year-on-year to 82% as on 31st March '20. On corporate loan book, the exposure has reduced to 18% of assets under management. From 22% a year earlier this comprises 12% construction finance, 4% corporate term loan and 2% lease rental discounting. During the year, we sell down corporate book worth INR 2,300 crores. As on 31st March '20, our corporate book is spread across 141 union developers, down from 169 as on 31st March 2019. The top 20 developers with 63 loan accounts contribute around 64% of our corporate book. During '19/'20, principal repayment started for 69 corporate financing loans -- for loan accounts having total outstanding of almost INR 70,525 crores. The amount collected in these facilities during the principal moratorium period was INR 642 crores. As on 31st March '20, 61% of the book is on the principal moratorium and the amount collected in these facilities up to '20 and during the principal moratorium is INR 593 crores. The projects from the moratorium or on weighted average base is 59% complete and have weighted average security of almost around 2%. Around 11% of this would -- is in Stage 2 and Stage 3. As on 31st March '20, the Stage 2 of the corporate book is at around INR 900 crores, which is 18% lower than the Stage 2 around 31st March '19. This includes loan accounts that moved into next bucket due to significant increase in credit risk. The company has created sufficient provision of 28% in Stage 2 compared to 15.2% a year earlier. The products under Stage 2 or on a weighted average base is 59% complete and the weighted average security of more than 2%. In May '19, we turned about 5 accounts which are stressed in nature. And out of these 5 accounts, 4 accounts are now moved to Stage 3 that is NPA. In addition, we saw symptoms of closing, on one of our large accounts and probably you would have read in the newspaper as well within relative -- which will return NPA in Q4 FY '20. I'll just give you a brief of these large NPA accounts. So that last time when we had given the details, so we remain updated what has happened during the year. In IPL, that is Idea Private Limited, we have disbursed INR 150 crores and the current outstanding is INR 101 crores. So that showed a reduction in outstanding borrowings of INR 350 crores. The company through the legal action has successfully got one part of the mortgage land option, and we received 25% farmers money. And as per the terms of auction in the next 2 months' time or 3 months' time, we'll get the remaining amount. The process of auction as the remaining piece of land, the second piece of land is on, and we expect that we should be in a position to get something out of it in the next 2 months' time. We are keeping the fingers crossed living the lockdown and all, and it is very difficult to go and pay the notices and even file the notice and the SARFAESI. In case of reporting, the outstanding is INR 234 crores, and the developer is running into multiple credit exposure, the company bought the project and its registration moved to a special proper vehicle. However, we have simultaneously started legal proceedings under SARFAESI. With respect to Radius, the outstanding is INR 259 crores. We have in closed consultation and discussions with the close lender as we are trying to be a partner in projects. They are also a partner in the project. In the meanwhile, the company has initiated legal proceedings against the company under SARFAESI. On Ornate, the outstanding INR 181 crores, and we initiated proceedings under the SARFAESI. The other lender has gone to NCLT. But so far, we have not had from NCLT, any order on it. So we are going ahead under SARFAESI. On [ Vipul ], we disbursed -- [ Vipul ] is the account, which I mentioned, just got added during this quarter, and this is the account where we have probably among the 5, I discussed earlier, the IGAAP outstanding. We disbursed INR 407 crores, and the present outstanding is INR 356 crores. The leverage is secured by mortgage of the entire project and legal proceedings have been initiated by SARFAESI. And we have got the symbolic provision of the projects taken we are now in the world of issuing sell notification. Our similar inquiries from the builder and all has generated a good response. A lot of people have come forward, and I hope that we should be in a position to take some positive steps in this loan account very shortly. A lot of investors are expressing interest in that, both by way of our direct functions are becoming a partner in that. We had to take a call on this depending on what kind of term sheet comes to us. There was a small account that we discussed last time, it started developing with the outstanding of INR 20.25 crores, which is NPA since last year. $1 per have already come forward, they've been showing interest and you entered into private treaty. MOU has already been signed, and 10% farmers money has been deposited. And balance was expected in the month of April, but due to COVID, this is an issue. And maybe we have given in some time. We expect that by 30th June, if it is not by 30 June, at least in the month of July because everything is in a moratorium. So the person who has entered into an agreement with us to buy this through private treaty has also requested some time. So we are considering with requests beyond 30th June. The company during last 1 year has significantly reduced its corporate loan disbursement and has also tightened its monitoring norms, restructured the entire team and heavily invested in IT and development of the workflow to further make operations as robust and world class. I commented that in learning our lessons from the lockdown, we are into some kind of improvement in our processes, where we'll make it totally paper free for the customers. Gross NPAs as on 31st March '20 is 2.29% on the AUM, around 2.25% on the loan book. The life to death write-off by the company is just 10 bps of the cumulative disbursement. The company is conservative added INR 755 crores in provision and write-off in Q4 FY '20. We believe in this dynamic environment, the best risk mitigation approach with stable pressure against this team. Hence, we have created a provision of INR 474 crores on account of COVID-19, which is roughly 40% of our provision we created during Q4 -- or for the entire year, sorry. Based on the current indication of the condition -- economic condition, as we see that the lockdown is getting lifted slowly and slowly, and the life is coming back to normal or whatever new normal that we call it, we feel that ECL provision appears to be adequate. As on 31st March '20, our total provision to asset stands comfortably at 2.61%. The provision coverage ratio for Stage 3 has moved to 36% as on 31st March '20 compared to 20.95% as on 31st March 2019. The Stage 3 provision coverage ratio for the corporate book is 42.2%, and retail is 25.4% as on 31st March '20. Along with Stage 3, the company has created adequate prices in Stage 2 and Stage 1 at 17.2% and 1.06%, respectively. I'm happy to share with you that the provision coverage ratio which was 87% as on December '19, with all this increase in provision that we have made by Stage 2 and Stage 3, even Stage 1, provision coverage ratio stands at 95%. And if you see our corporate book, our corporate book has got 100% provision coverage ratio. The financial result for the company as of 31st March '20 are as under the pre-provision operating profit for 2019/'20 is at INR 2,062 crores as compared to INR 1923.3 crores, showing a growth of 7%. Impairment on financial instruments and write-offs in the year are at INR 1,251 crores, including COVID-19 provision as compared to INR 189 crores provision that we made in '18/'19. The profit after tax for the year stood at INR 646.24 crores compared to a profit of INR 1,191.5 crores for the year '18/'19. As I mentioned earlier that COVID provision of INR 471 crores, the net of taxes is high, compare like-to-like the PAT for '19/'20 would have been approximately INR 1,010 crores. That is INR 1,010 crores. The spread on loans for '19/'20 is 246 basis points, excluding the assignment in terms and our IndAS adjustment, that is as per IGAAP, the spread on loans for '19/'20 is 200 basis points compared to 198 basis points for financial year '18/'19. Yes, 200 here. 200, 200 basis points. So it is more than 14 basis points, more than what it was '18/'19. Our net interest margin for '19/'20 is 298 basis points against 293 basis points for the financial year '18/'19. The gross margin, net of acquisition cost, and including fee for '19/'20, stood at 321 basis points against 334 basis points during '18/'19. The OpEx to average total assets for the financial year excluding ESOP cost of INR 21 crores, being more of an accounting provision stood at 55 basis points. The cumulative ECL provision as on 31st March '20 is INR 1,765.6 crores. The return on assets for financial year '19/'20 is 0.80%, and return on equity for '19/'20 is 8.12%. The closing network as per IndAS calculation is INR 7,998 crores. In order to implement various CSR programs, we have incorporated Pehel Foundation during '19/'20. This is a company that we founded for to take care of our CSR initiatives. We are a strong 1,549 full-time employee company as on 30th -- 31st March '20. The company is looking -- further looking on the corporate side, we are looking to sell our corporate book, and we are in discussion with a few banks. And I see if everything goes all well because these are credit issues the banker to take they have seen our books, we have shared the details with them. And I expect that in a few weeks’ time, we should be in a position to sell-down another INR 2,000 crores out of our corporate books. On the capital risk, with the change environment and publicly announced commitment by our promoter, that is Punjab National Bank to maintain their lockdown month on strategic ownership in the company, the company is reviewing all options including the possibility of a rights issue with the participation of all our major shareholders. We have the support of our promoters on liquidity in any unforeseen circumstances and same is committed to address in case of any eventuality. As I already mentioned, we have enough liquidity of almost around INR 10,000 crores. But despite that, we have the support of the promoter available in case of any eventuality that is available to us. Before we -- I open the floor for Q&A, I request you all to see our results from -- the first company were to send them the balance sheet. There were 2 options in this exceptional situation that we all are and the economic is in. The softer one and the harder one. We are, on a whole decided that we will take the harder option and make adequate general provisions for COVID, which I just mentioned, but for which probably we would have been -- as far as in terms of net profit to more than INR 1,000 crores. And this year, a profit for Q4 of INR 122 crores. It was a strategy in this extreme and exceptional circumstances, and we thought we'll be more prudent and more -- will mitigate the risk going for the long-term strategy to strengthen the balance sheet. So with this, I thank all of you, and I will now request Deepika to take it forward.

Hi, Lisan. We can now open up for the Q&A.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of from Sanket Chheda from B&K Securities.

Sir, I just have a couple of questions. First is, as we mentioned that we haven't avail the moratorium on bank borrowing, so was it like we were offered a moratorium from banks and his peers, how much -- how many percentage of borrowers had offered the moratorium part to us?

As far as we are concerned, as I mentioned, we are not avail a moratorium from any of the banks. We did get an offer from the bank, a few banks. We have taken a conscious call that, for the present we'll not avail the moratorium. And as I mentioned, we have sufficient liquidity to take care of our repayment obligation. So we -- and July, the general moratorium will now open, and I feel that at this stage, we don't need a moratorium.

Okay. And sir, on the percentage of AUM under moratorium, which was earlier 56% and now 31%. What was the split between retail and the corporate piece?

The corporate is almost around 80% to 90%. And retail under sales on 49% and 20% at the end of moratorium 2.

And sir, one last question, we talked about that we had sold corporate loans worth INR 2,000 crores odd. So where do we sell this to PSU banks? Or where do we sell this?

Name of the bank, I -- with...

No, not name of the bank, but just PSU banks?

It was PSUs. It was PNB.

The next question is from the line of Anuj Singla from Bank of America.

Sir, couple of questions. Firstly, on the equity raise, I got disconnected. Did you mention anything on the quantum and the mode which you will be using for the fund raise?

Yes, it's probably, if you remember the earlier announcement made by us, we had an approval from the Board of INR 2,000 crores. And as far the mode is concerned, we both have given the authority to view as our aiming mode, whether QIP, preferential or rights issue. So we have examined all the options. And probably in the month of December that we thought, we'll go for QIP in preferential order. On a subsequent revision, looking to the macroeconomic conditions, and the valuation and all that, we have taken a call this is not the right time to goof up QIP and preferential. It is better to go for a rights option. This is the thing that we are discussing with all the stakeholders. All the 3 options as of date are open to us, but we'll take your call based on our discussions with the stakeholders. But as of today, looking to the market to me and to the company it appears, the rights is the best option. The best possible option.

Understood. And sir, if I recall, during maybe 2Q or 3Q, it was also mentioned that PNB might not participate in the QIP because they were happy with you going ahead with the equity raise. But I think it was mentioned in the press release that PNB might not be able to do that because of their own constraints. But you mentioned that you have the active support of the promoter. So is there a change in that, that the communication from PNB, they will also be participating in this. Any color on that, sir?

And first answer to your question about PNB's participation or not. So PNB has given a commitment, which is a matter of record, they have gone public and even PNB has made a statement. That PNB will continue to remain a promoter of the company, and they will not let the scale go to 26%. That was one commitment promoter has given to us. We have support of the promoter, a very strong support of the promoter. But as I mentioned subsequently, that initially, we examined this options of going to market to raise the money through QIP and preferential group. But looking to the overall economic condition and market condition, we have taken a call that this is not the right time to go to the market with these 2 routes. So we are discussing with our stakeholders to go for our rights issue, so that will depend. And if we decide to go for our right, a call will be taken by PM.

Okay. Understood. And sir, second question is on liquidity. So we have the liquidity situation in the presentation given some part. So that -- but all the moratorium lead us from April. So at this point [Technical Difficulty].

Could you repeat your question.

Sorry, sorry. Sir, on the liquidity side, so basically, we have the position from March end in the presentation. So if I look at as of today, till August, until kind of second moratorium will be there, you don't see any kind of liquidity issues in terms of meeting the repayments, despite you'd not taking the moratorium from the bank, right? Sir, is there some kind of numbers you can share? What kind of comfort is there, if the moratorium number were to increase in the second phase as well?

Yes. As I mentioned, the moratorium numbers have gone down. They have not gone up. As per corporate is concerned, entire thing is 80% to 90% book has come into moratorium where the repayment has started, right? As far as retail is concerned, the moratorium has gone on considerably. So we do not expect any second stage moratorium would go up. And all this have been factored into our cash flow right. And whatever liquidity I mentioned is as on 5th of June. So going forward 5th of June, I do not anticipate any problem and I have enough liquidity available to take care of my 3 months repayment obligation. And as I mentioned, the liquidity moratorium will come to an end on 31st August, thereafter the recovery will pick up, so that will come, which as of today has not been taken into account.

Okay. And sir, have we availed anything under the government guarantee scheme for the NBFCs, which was announced, the INR 30,000 crores?

Yes. You're talking about a 20% -- of TCV.

Yes, a partial guarantee as well as...

We have applied, yes. Partial guarantee, we have applied to be a bigger -- various bank, and we are talking to them. Not only to them, we are talking to banks on TLTRO-2 also.

Okay. So those things are not factored in the liquidity numbers which you shared, right? They will be more above...

No. no. These are the sanctioned lines as on date. Sanctioned lines and on portions out of my calendar are working capital. The thing which is not sanctioned -- and not sanctioned in the cash flow.

The next question is from the line of Subrat Dwibedy from SBI Life.

So on the moratorium side, the numbers that are given, I guess, around the value fund. In terms of number of accounts, any sense on how the retail moratorium behaved in Stage 1, Stage 2.

See if you take the value term, it is almost same, 49% and income in retail, it comes to around 51% or 52%. So it doesn't make much of difference in terms of healthy also.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Sure. And in terms of deposit mobilization, usually, the quarterly run rate was INR 2,500 crores. I think it came down in Q4 to around INR 1,500 crores. So any reason for that? And how do you see it now?

See, in Q4, partially on account of lockdown. Whatever issue we had is partially on account of lockdown. The teams were not going out. So the connect was not there, the entire March was on lockdown officially was on 24th March. But before that itself at the down level, the sealers were there and movements were restricted. The people have offered are visiting somebody. That kind of physical differencing norms and all that. So partially, it's got impacted due to lockdown. April and May probably got lockdown, so I would say it was entirely an account of lockdown. But if you see the overall growth during the year, we have grown on deposits.

Right. Fine. Last would be on overall strategy front. So right now, real estate segment picking up would be very difficult and any sales or collections might happen only in Q3 or maybe later? So what would be the strategy to sustain, failed as success...

You are talking about the -- can you just repeat it? I just missed the first line of your question. Can you just repeat the question.

So basically, any sort of collections or sales in real estate will take time to pick up. So what would be your strategy to sustain the business, till the overall sector revised?

Yes. So I will first cover the collection and then I will come to the sales part. The collection activity, there is a lockdown as the moratorium is available up to August. So obviously, the collection activity to that extent wherever people have taken the moratorium is down. So we will activate our teams post 15th August. 13th August, 31st August our teams are in touch with the borrowers and then it picks up in the month of September. To just give a brief to you, we have almost around 60% book on coverage employee. So I don't foresee any problem in case of people who have taken moratorium and they are a coverage employee. For sales employee also, we will decide only whenever the lockdown, the moratorium is expected. At that point of time, we'll see the impact of it. But right now, scenario is uncertain, economy is going to take a hit, so I cannot make any guess on that. On the sales side, I am very positive because I see the demand is there. Even in the lockdown, we got the application from the customer in the month of April, in the month of May. And if I tell the application alone in the month of April, there were around 1,300 applications which moved on to 2,800 applications in the month of May. For the month of June, I'm sure this will further go up. So as far as the sales is concerned and sales, particularly in mid-income housing group, if I say mid-income housing group, is the property and is roughly INR 70 lakhs to INR 90 lakhs, and the loan is say up to INR 60 lakhs to INR 65 lakhs. In that, I feel that there won't be any issue and demand would be there. And probably after COVID, people have realized that they need a home of their own. So they definitely will go for it. Work from home situation has added another dimension to the demand because in the same house during lockdown period, and earlier during the period in day time only 3 people were staying during lockdown, there are 6 of them. If the husband and wife both are working, both needed working space. So I think these kind of factors will definitely lead to demand in this group, which I mentioned to you. One more important thing told to me by some of the developer, I am not too sure whether it is correct or across the country, that some of the societies at least in Delhi and around NCR, where we have a differential treatment to the owners and the tenants. So what the -- say these tenants who felt very offended by this kind of treatment in the kind of societies, that will also generate some kind of demand, but I'm not too sure because exactly weighted all across the country. In this NCR, then it may not have impact as much as it is in overall all in the phenomenon. So these are the issues which keeps me very optimistic that, that will give you demand, I have given you numbers to you, in number of inquiries. For Pehel side, I feel that while it may not be normal as it was before COVID, it will take some time. So far, I think maybe really it's not the third quarter, definitely the beginning of the fourth quarter and will come back to normal.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Nidhesh from Investec Capital.

Firstly, on the capital raise since our Tier 1 is already 15% plus, and we don't expect material growth in FY '21. I think it will be -- we never expect that loan book may be flat or may decline, and we are also looking to sell more corporate loans. So what is the need for capital growth given Tier 1 is already quite good?

See Tier 1 is comfortable. Tier 2 is comfortable. And overall, I'm comfortable on CRAR, but I had to take care of my gearing as well. So that is helping me in gearing as well. Capital would help me in improve the blended gearing. The blended gearing, as I mentioned, as on date is 8, the capital will help me to bring it down to 5 or 6.

Okay. Okay. And secondly, sir, with the reduction in share of corporate loans...

And I have one point, if I do my retail business. I know, at the end of financial year, probably, I think, again come to 13 and 14. I don't want to do business hitting on sense. So I need the comfort of my capital adequacy. So if I do it within this next 3 months, and I'm very comfortable till 31st March '22.

Sure, sir. And sir, secondly, with respect to our strategy and the profitability going forward, since we are reducing the share of corporate loans and also raising capital. What is your expectation of sustainable ROE from the business?

See, one is corporate finance, we have decided not today. 1 year back, we decided that we will not do corporate finance. And last 12 months, we have not sanctioned any tuning loan. Second is corporate finance is the requirement for capital is high. This is 100% useful weighted asset as against the retail. We have the requirement of capital 35% to 50%. As for as, a return on equity, I would request Kapish, our CFO. He has a detailed calculation based on the business plan. I did not share because we are still working on business plan, but we have made some calculations. Because Kapish will mention on the calculation that we have done for the Board we are preparing a business plan based on that, he will tell you some figures on data margins.

So I would just like to give you some color around, as you would know, the risk is on the immediate home loans as well as 35%. Bulk of our asset qualified under that bracket. So therefore, it gives us immense opportunity to build that particular portfolio even though the spread in this book is lower. If I have the right kind of gearing there, which would be more acceptable even to the bankers and rating agencies and lenders because these are diverse, small ticket retail loans, I would be able to generate a healthy ROA and ROE as well in that business, and we will be able to turn my book better. As MD articulated, we are not looking to grow the corporate book so that will help me in reducing my capital as well because the corporate assets demand 100% is space. Even on a blended basis, the RWA today on my retail is around 60%, which is -- and therefore, it would be a good double-digit ROE even with the raise of equity. A reasonably good double-digit ROE is something that we should be able to manage. And then -- so that's kind of indication I want to give you reasonably when these ROE is something that we should be able to manage this year, even with the capital way.

Sure. And sir, lastly, sir, on the securitization and assignment, what is our strategy going forward, whether we will be securitizing assigning loans or not?

So we have not decided. See as I told you, we are still finalizing our business plan, and we are comfortable on CRAR. So I think we'll take a call going forward maybe in the next quarter. Because right now, we are comfortable definitely we would be looking now to sell-down the corporate book. But securitization on retail asset, we have good retail asset, you would have seen our figures and all. So we'll take a call going forward. And then we feel that we acquire some balance sheet management and we require to improve our capital adequacy ratio, at that point of time, we'll take a call. But right now, I'm sufficient both in terms of my capital adequacy ratio and liquidity. So there's no need for any right now to go for securitization.

The next question is from the line of Saral Kothari from Riddhi Siddhi Investment.

Sir, what is your EMI cycle per month as of now? I mean EMI collections.

What do you mean by cycle?

I mean what is the collection per month? EMI per month [Foreign Language] collection [Foreign Language].

[Foreign Language] you want the absolute number?

Yes, absolute number in the month of May and month of April.

[Foreign Language] roughly [Foreign Language] INR 400 crores.

Per month.

Yes.

The next question is from the line of Shubhranshu Mishra from BOB Capital Markets.

This particular moratorium number, can you split it? If I've missed for the retail, corporate -- and the corporate book and the LAP?

Yes, sure. I will. See, for the retail, it is 49% in moratorium 1 and 20% in moratorium 2. Okay. And for the corporate, it is roughly between 85% to 90%.

And LAP, sir?

It is included in the corporate.

In particular?

Sorry, it is included in the retail. I guess profit in retail. It is included in retail.

Right, sir. So HL is also similar business around 49%, 50% in the Stage 1 and 20% in Stage 2.

Yes. Yes. As I mentioned , I mean the overall retail moratorium is 49% in 1 and 20% in Stage 2, where the LAP is included in retail.

Right, right. And are we giving an automatic moratorium to the guys who asked for moratorium in Stage 1? Or is it on a selective basis?

No, both moratorium 1 and 2 are opted. We have provided all the facilities, including all the 3 channels, like e-mail, the call center and the SMS facility. And on our website also, we had provided that kind of facility. Anybody requesting was given the moratorium, right? And this were general factors among all the NBFCs, they all went for opt in facility.

Right, right, sir. And if I look at your Slide #32, where you get the ticket sizes, sir, you have a sizable proportion of the book, which is above INR 1 crores in both housing loans and LAP. In fact, just to look at about INR 7,500 lakhs also, which means that these people are really well to do. Why would they ask for moratorium in such huge numbers because these numbers are not -- I'm hearing this for the first time from a housing finance companies. You have...

Which slide you're talking about?

31.

Slide #32, sir. [Foreign Language] exercises.

We have 31 pages.

Who reported till now -- have reported such high numbers in morat. And this doesn't gel with the average ticket size that you have given out and housing loans and LAPs because they seem to be very well-to-do people. Why should they ask for morat?

We are talking about more than INR 1 crores. Is that correct?

Even more than INR 75 lakhs. So INR 75 lakhs is on the ticket size and even Tier 1 cities. So on assuming as far as...

One thing is, this time it is manageable, let us talk legally that decision is not available, if somebody is asking for a moratorium, you have no choice because as per RBI you have to provide it. And now why is he asking? Is a question that probably we'll talk to him. But as far as the first thing is concerned, as per RBI, if he requests and the moratorium has to be given.

So sir, what is the disconnect? Because your peers who have reported, they haven't reported such big numbers. So where am I lifting the point here?

Kapish would you like add something. One second.

Which -- even peers have not taken that much.

As of the figures, figures are slightly up the market, this is what he said.

The first on of the market moratorium 1, of course, the figures you see are more it was an element of anxiety and uncertainty also amongst the customers. And you said, about INR 1 crores or the profile of customers irrespective, everybody attempted with this kind of a facility and seeing the environment which is most uncertain, that was taken, but it gets subsided in moratorium 2 where the percentage has a significant depth. So when it got settled...

So your ticket size is about INR 15 crores in LAP. I fail to understand why is this customer has asked for a morat.

Can you do...

Could you repeat.

Can you come again. Can you come again?

So in LAP, sir. You've got roughly 2% of the book which is...

Yes, 2%.

So it's slightly defeating my logic why this customer would ask for morat because this has a...

How are you coming to conclusion that he has asked for the moratorium? That's what my first question is.

Because you said it's 50%, so...

Yes, it's 50%. Yes. I'm not giving a breakup of that. It is 50% in detail, does not mean that he would have taken the moratorium. I'm not giving the breakup time wise.

Also what is the breakup ticket size so far?

So it is not available at the moment. It is not available at the moment, but as you have mentioned, we'll try to analyze it. Okay. But even against loan again faculty, let me tell you, we are very comfortable in terms of our securities. Our average LTV is around 47%. So we are very, very comfortable in our LAP. And I was just wondering from where you got this input because it's not available to me even.

And one last question, sir, we've seen attrition in the management radar over the last 2, 3 months. So any specific reason for that? Or it's just natural attrition business as usual.

Naturally 3 months, at least, to my knowledge. Even I joined 2 months back. And I know for sure that before that, also I was interacting with the company as I was an independent director on the Board. To my knowledge, I think nobody from the stock team has left, and if you are trying to indicate about the Head of the Business, that is Shaji. So Shaji went to explore a room of pressures in the market, and we became #1 in some other company. So that is a natural progression. Anybody would look for that rather than Shaji, probably I don't find anybody from the top team left and that Shaji's case, I was no earlier given an opinion to discussing with the new -- the place where he was going. So there are known case.

Right. And are we going to look at any further attrition? The attrition is going to be very low going forward.

It won't be, there won't be anything I can tell you. The entire team is sitting with me.

We'll move on to the next question that is from the line of Piran Engineer from Motilal Oswal Financial Services.

Some of my questions have been asked, but I just want to clarify why was securitization done so much this quarter?

We had already done up to December. And we thought that, beyond that we will not have to do it because that was a call taken, as a conscious call taken. So nothing compelled me to do securitization. Securitization is basically to manage my balance sheet and to bring my capital adequacy well within my target. This -- if 2 targets are achieved after that if I see, that I had to do securitization, I'll do it.

Maybe INR 10,000 crores.

Okay. Okay. And that's my second question. But despite retail assets going down. So your Tier 1 capital has actually gone up on this business. So I'm just -- what really explains this?

See, one is retail book consumes less of a capital, the risk weighted -- the risk rate is ranging from 35% to 50%.

Yes. That has gone down, actually sir, Q-o-Q. So the share of the retail assets has declined between Q3 and Q4, but your Tier 1 capital has actually gone up by more than 100 bps.

Our corporate book has come down. And corporate book is 100% capital as against the adjourned risk rate is around 55% in retail. So obviously, to sell down the corporate book, the capital would go up. Share will go up.

No, sir. Okay. Let me just put it in number. Your corporate book share last quarter was 29%, which went up modestly to 30%. So if anything, it has actually increased and Tier 1 has also improved.

No. No. You targeting percentage on AUM or on the book.

On AUM as per your disclosures.

But capital adequacy is not calculated on AUM. Capital adequacy is calculated on book. So we calculate on book.

Okay. But the AUM and book has not changed too much in Q-o-Q because you've hardly securitized anything anywhere, right?

That is what's the difference in corporate book. Corporate book...

We securitized only INR 70 crores this quarter. So...

So INR 35 crores, yes. So that is the thing.

And it does not make a difference. AUM and loan book on a Q-on-Q basis.

Let me just check, one second. Anything you can add to it Kapish.

Yes. We'll talk separately on this. We'll...

We let you do one-to-one.

Yes, we'll talk about that later today. Even the loan book has come down. The corporate book more particularly gives consumes a far higher risk, and therefore, that is given the release on the capital adequacy. This is one very primary reason. And we'll talk on this in future as well.

I think we can have detailed calculation and I'll tell you the answer on this.

Okay. Sure. And sir, what is our incremental cost of funds.

Yes. And you know what, Piran, the overall risk-weighted assets, the overall risk-weighted assets actually come down by around INR 2,000 crores and net worth is flattish. And that's precisely why the overall capital adequacy has improved.

Okay. INR 2,000 crores Q-o-Q?

Yes.

Q-on-Q, yes, between December and March. The RWA has gone lower by INR 2,000 crores.

Understood. And what is our incremental cost of fund?

What is what?

Incremental cost of funds.

Incremental cost of fund. Our increase cost of fund is now touching around 850 or 820. That we've been able to mobilize.

The next question is from the line of Pankaj Naik from India Ratings.

I'm just trying to understand this over specific provision of INR 471 crores, a pretty exact number. Just wanted to understand the rationale or calculation behind this INR 471 crores of provisioning.

Okay. As far as COVID provision is concerned, I mean, we have detailed working of the model. And I think it would be probably take longer time to give all details to you. But I will hand over the floor to our Risk Officer, Mr. Ajay Gupta, he will give you some brief on that. But I would prefer if you want a detail on this, you can have one-to-one call with Mr. Ajay Gupta, and he will share the strategy that we decided about the COVID provision, okay? But a brief will be given by Mr. Ajay Gupta, our Chief Risk Officer.

So this number is the outcome of calibrated model. So whatever number taken we have baked in the financial, it was nothing that it has to be a wrong number or a number, which is kind of managed number. We have -- and COVID is something which is unprecedented and black swan event kind of thing where no past precedent of this kind was available for doing any kind of a benchmark. So we have looked at retail portfolio and corporate portfolio separately because the risk convergence for the retail portfolio is very different than corporate book. And we have applied various sectors to stress our PDs and LGD based on which the COVID -- just to give you some vectors like there was a crystal report on the industries, which will get impacted. We have considered industries. We've taken 2x2 metrics or 3x3 metrics where we apply people employed in MNCs if there is a job loss or if there is a salary cut, what would be the impact. So we have also seen implication on higher fraud because people who are leveraged may get impacted with this. And the CIBIL score or the Bureau score is a good indicator on the emerging risk. Customers who are good with me, but bad outside, where we'll have a higher propensity to default. So we have factored -- so these are the various factors from which retail PD was stressed and calibration was done. For retail, LGD, there is a -- there is a widespread knowledge in the industry that the LTVs on the property price may come down. There is a resident, which is shared by NHB. So we use that and identified accounts with higher LTVs, so we put stress on that. There is also understanding or the thing that the resolutions may take time. So we have applied time value of money. These are the vectors for which LGDs have been stressed. And based on these retail numbers are done for corporate loans. And one more point, which is on the PD front, the people who have applied for moratorium, albeit moratorium, we have also taken that also into account because probability of default by then maybe higher so a vector effect was included in that. Similarly for corporate, people who have normal moratorium with us who have just come out in last 6 months or are coming out in next 12 months, probability of default may be higher, so we have applied stress test on that. COVID moratorium given by RBI is another sector of high-end properties or projects. Although we have limited numbers there as depicted in one of the slides in the presentation, those definitely make -- those may come in the stress, as we have applied there. And lastly, the delay in delivery and time taken for delivery. So these are the various sectors which have -- on basis of which we have built our COVID calculation. And this is a calibrated number. Whatever machine gave numbers, we have depicted, even if it is a very odd number.

Yes. That was helpful, sir. Only thing is, if you just give some numerical basis, as in -- you said -- mentioned about stress PD and stress LGD, so any particular multiple that you would like to mention that in retail, you increase on...

I don't think that is advisable at this call, these are management outlets. These are management discussions and workings. The outcome is there, and we feel that the COVID number, which we have come out and this is checked in detail by statutory auditor also. And they are also satisfied with the methodology and the calculation.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Pratik Chheda from IIFL Securities. As there's no response from the current participant, we'll move on to the next person in line of Shagun Verma from Goldman Sachs.

Just one quick question from my side. Typically, what percentage of payments come through in the first 10 days of the month?

We have payment cycle stood all across the month. 5th, 10th, the 15th, 25th and the last day of the month. The last day we don't do it. The 5 cycles we have goes like. It is spread all across. Depending on the cycle, almost everything is equally divided in the month cycle.

Okay. Okay. So lastly, then within the first 10 months, you would expect around 40%, 45% of payments.

A little bit more than that because salaries is credited to the end of the month. So first 2 cycle, that is 5th and 10th, it is getting more than 50%, the remaining cycle will have little less.

Okay. All right. And has that changed in the past couple of months, say in the month of May or April, even June now that we have 15 months into the month?

It will definitely change the moratorium. We will talk and something in the moratorium it will impact. Okay. Right now, that has definitely changed.

The next question is from the line of Nischint Chawathe from Kotak Securities. As there's no response from the current participant, we'll move on to the next that is from the line of Anand Laddha from HDFC Mutual Funds.

Sir, am I audible to you sir?

Yes, definitely. Go ahead please.

I just had a couple of questions. I'll just ask my question, and you can respond me. Well, on capital raising, what sort of discussions are you having with your promoters PNB? How much quantum of capital are you looking towards? Is it INR 2,000 crores or lesser than that? I'm sorry -- sorry.

Yes, go ahead. Go ahead. Is there anything, how much of the quantum?

Yes. Is there any time line, sir, because we have been hearing of capital raising from almost a year now, we have been hearing of capital raising. So is there any time line do we have in plan that by when this will get considered. Second, sir, on the gross NPA, if you can just break up of retail and corporate NPA. And on the corporate NPA -- on the corporate loan book, what is the morat under Stage 2, second phase. That's from my side..

Okay. First is on the quantum of the capital, we are still looking at the same amount of INR 1,500 crores to INR 2,000 crores. That is the approval that we have from the Board. So if we look at the same amount of the capital to be raised from the market. That's one. So then, you want to know, at what scale it is. So we are discussing, as I mentioned, we had approval from the Board for all the 3 types of options available, whether it is QIP, whether its preferential or whether it's rights. But as I mentioned, between the macroeconomic conditions and valuations in the market, at this state, we feel that the rights is the only option, so we are actively engaged with all the stakeholders, right? Now for the time line is concerned, probably, maybe 6 to 8 weeks' time, we feel that we'll take a call and what more we are taking it. But as I mentioned, on capital adequacy front, we are comfortable, and we are not going for a corporate book in this financial year. The capital available already on the book of the company is sufficient to take right business plan forward in terms of retail. Now what was your last question?

Sir, breakup of your gross NPA to retail and profit and on the moratorium given to corporate customers.

It is given in the presentation, but I'll repeat it for you. It is given in the presentation, but I'll just repeat. Just hold on for a second. What do you want to know?

Sir, on the moratorium, sir, you had given a corporate customer taking 85% to 90% of value on the safe zone of moratorium. And Stage 2 is also a similar amount?

No, if you see Slide #20 is retail, I'll just repeat the figure for you. For yes, now 21.25% is Stage 3 provision, 1.25%. Hello can you hear me?

Yes, I can hear you.

Sorry, 25%. 25% is the provision coverage ratio. And ECL provision Stage 3 is 1.67% as against gross Stage 3 of 6.60%. So this is Stage 3 GNPA is 1.25%, Stage 2 at 2.96%. And Kapish if you want to.

2 is 95.8%. Yes. The Stage 1 is 95.8% total outstanding the provision Stage 1 is 0.46%. Stage 2 provision is 11.05%, and Stage 3 provision is 25.41% the provision coverage ratio. And corporate. Corporate, we have it here, which share you want to know for corporate?

Sir, all, Stage 1, Stage 2.

Okay. Stage 3, 8.18%; coverage ratio is 42%. Stage 2, 6.25%, covering ratio was 27.84%; and Stage 3 is 85.6%, coverage ratio is 3.46%. If you see the calculation is here. Okay. It is there in the presentation. In case of any issue, kindly contact us, we'll clarify.

The next question is from the line of Abhijit Tibrewal from ICICI Securities.

If you have already covered that as part of your opening comments. Can I request you to please either tell us again what was the status of those exposures, which were already NPA as on last quarter, and the new ones which have moved into GNPA? Or alternatively, if you can share your opening remarks with everyone? What would have been the difference?

Hello. You want the [ 2005 ]. Hello?

Sorry.

Yes, you want that the stage of -- the 5 accounts that are accelerating. This is what you are saying.

Yes. That's right.

I've given a brief to you in my opening remark, what exactly you want to know, let me know. I'd be specific on that.

Sure. Sir, so if you could repeat those or alternatively, if you can share your opening remarks, either of them will be useful.

See, we had Supertech. Supertech continues to be now. It has moved to NPA, it is now in NPA in Stage 3, okay? And we are holding more than 50% on provisions. And we are going against the company under SARFAESI. Anything you want to know more than that?

So what is the current outstanding now in Supertech?

In Supertech, we are outstanding of roughly INR 244 crores.

Okay. All right. What's the next one?

In Ornate, we are outstanding INR 181 crores. And we are going against the builder or through SARFAESI. In Radius, we are outstanding at INR 259 crores. Here again, the provision is around 50%. And here also, we are taking an action against SARFAESI. Another was IPL. The outstanding has come down to INR 101 crores. And we have provision of roughly 40%. Here, there were 2 parcels of land. We have been able to successfully auction one of the [Technical Difficulty]. Money should come in. We are trying to auction the second part. The new accounts which got added to the Stage 3 is [ Vipul ], where the outstandings are proven to be fixed, and we have started taking action on the SARFAESI, and hopefully, we'll try to conclude in the next 6 to 8 weeks' time.

All right, sir. And sir, the INR 390 crores, that includes 3 new and 1 existing account that you have even given on Slide 21 of the presentation, wherein you have said that they would have been Stage 1, but we have classified into Stage 2. I mean is there anything to read into that in terms of projects? I mean in what bucket they are and how soon can they move into Stage 3?

See they were in Stage 1, but we found that the cash flows are not as per our expectations and as per the plan that they submitted when we sanctioned the loan. So we have applied higher provisions under ECL, and we have moved them to Stage 2, as we call it under IndAS. So they are in Stage 2 category now. And if you see my Stage 2, total Stage 2 is INR 900 crores. Out of that, these accounts, which have moved from Stage 1 to Stage 2, they are roughly 1/3 of that. So you can take it INR 300-odd crores. Stage 1 account, we have deliberately to put in Stage 2 and applied higher PD and accordingly provided for -- more than the normal Stage 1 accounts.

Okay. Okay. So sir, is it fair to assume that in the next quarter or so, can we move into Stage 3 or are these in the moratorium?

It is farther and better than, what we will keep on happening, depending on what the cash flows at the build up, but then we found that, yes, they saw a risk, higher risk. We have moved them to Stage 2. Whatever has happened, if we moved to Stage 1 also. But as on that, we thought that as on 31st March that we have the actual amount expand to our expectations. We applied our provision and taken them to Stage 2, but it is not necessarily that they will move to Stage 2. So if you see my Stage 2, growth movements have taken place. Compared to last time that I mentioned to you, the movements have taken place from 2 to 3 and the 2 to 1 as well. So it is either made possible depending on the situation.

The next question is from the line of Ritika Dua from Elara Securities.

Just a follow-up on the previous one. Sir, how many accounts are there in that INR 300 crores movement from Stage 1 to 2? And what is your NPA in the LAP book now? Sir, these are my 2 questions.

1 to 2. Stage 1 to 2, I think we have 6 accounts, 5 or 6 accounts. We have applied say Pre SICR. She's asking for 1 to 2 movements SICR.

SICR is 3.

3. So SICR is 3. 3 accounts.

Sir, I mean, just for clarification, this INR 300 crores, which you are mentioning to the earlier question. The INR 300 crores is equal to roughly some 3 accounts?

Yes, correct.

Precisely, this is INR 389 crores, SICR, 3 are new accounts. And one is the previous SICR where we recovered INR 15 crores, and that account, we continue to place under SICR. All these 4 accounts are 0 DPD.

Yes. What is the next question?

Sir, what's the NPA in the LAP book?

LAP book is roughly 1.6%.

And this is included in the retail side of it?

Yes, absolutely correct. These are included in retail.

The next question is from the line of Yashpal Madan, an Investor.

Sir, I want to know what is the right now situation in the market, are you actually able to disburse? You mentioned that there have been a couple of queries in April, May, June also. So is HL business start happening? If you can throw some numbers on applications approved for disbursed, which will give us some color how the business is shaping up? And if not, then what are the bottlenecks? And by when do you think you will be in a position to launching new business?

Okay. Disbursement is happening because we already had sanctioned housing loans in the month of -- before 31st March. All those accounts, the customer is operating, disbursement is happening. The only issue here is disbursements are linked to the construction stage. So wherever it is possible for our technical group to go and visit the site. There we are disbursing. Where it is not possible, we are not disbursing because there's a risk in the construction has lead to that stage. So to that extent, depending on lockdown condition, the state has got its own rules. So depending on people, if they are able to go out, do the inspection, we are doing the disbursement, right. As regards the new numbers, again, same lockdown condition has not permitted documentation because we are working with 1x faster than our bankers only in the month of June, we have been able to put more people in the bank. But again, at a state level, they are very direct to that we split the team into 2. So if the team A, has some issue, the entire team goes into quarantine. It happened in one of our branch, where the entire A team went into quarantine; B team took over they were asked to come on daily basis. Then the A team quarantine got over, then again, alternate days they started coming in. But even the registration offices are not working. So we cannot significantly burry mortgage also. So these are the issues, but definitely as far as the inquiry is concerned, applications are concerned and sanctions are concerned where you do not need to visit the customer or do not -- the customer does not have to come to the branch. It is possible, and the activity is picking up. And as I have told you number of application, 1,300 to 3,000, it has moved from April to May. June, we'll have to wait and watch.

So this means not even a single new disbursement has happened during this period. Is it the right conclusion?

Yes, I can give it further, I'll just tell you, how may I still -- how it happened, I was avoiding a number, because I do not have it readily available, but our retail person has just joined us. I'll ask Jatin, do you have a number. How many sanctions we have done?

So sanctions and disbursement has started and as already mentioned in the markets, which are operating. So wherein we are able to do a complete due diligence without compromising on the quality. So the things are happening. And the Radius is picking up a lot of leads, query, log-in functions and disbursements, it is happening. It has picked up.

So disbursement has no meaning for me or even for the -- any hamlets basically. What we are concerned with is any new actual disbursement happening? Or sanctions...

Yes. Actual disbursements are happening. In the actual disbursement, we have done a disbursement of INR 212 crores in the month of...

Against new loan sanctioned during lockdown. I'm not talking of earlier sanctions.

Yes, yes, I'm talking about new loans only. So we have done INR 212 crores.

The next question is from the line of Nischint Chawathe from Kotak Securities. As there is no response from the current participant, we'll move onto the next person in the line of [ Narasimham ], an investor.

Sir, my question is on a couple of lines. One is that you've got a lot of marquee investors like Carlyle, you've got GIC. Now obviously, the price at which organizations like GIC came out at about 1,200, 1,300 in the disclosed the public information. Now the price is 1/6 for what it was. Is it -- why is it that the QIP has become so unattractive for such large institution in the sales, which can be an easy area of mobilization of funds. Is there any reason why you're going with the rights issue? And one of the previous question was on the time line. I did not get the time line by which you will be completing the issue. And the second question is, in terms of the disbursement of INR 212 crores during the lockdown, it's a pretty insignificant number for organization of your size. So in terms of the growth, which is the key word, from a stock price perspective as well, including well. What will be your approach going forward?

See, this was just to give you a flavor that what is happening during lockdown, it is not that we are trying to achieve this number. We thought, we -- our business plan is still in the discussion. And we see that situation will become normal at the ground level sometime after June, July. So to -- for the entire situation to come to normal, as I mentioned, we are running the company in 1/3 strength. Because in terms the spread has got its own rules and regulation in terms of movement and all that. And even in terms of awareness at offices. So we are working it on 1/3 strength. So just to give you a flavor that things have started picking up. What we look at the business will be coming in INR 2,000 crores in the month of September onwards this is what we plan that we'll do, right. But all will depend on COVID situation and the COVID situation become normal that is a plan that we have. So looking from September onwards, maybe 7 months' time, we will do a basis of INR 13,000 crores to INR 14,000 crores. We are still talking to our business team, depending on the market situation, we'll take a call. And even I think it would become normal in the month of July, it will take some time for people to get realized that things have become normal, and they start taking attrition that they have to buy a house because buying house is not that urgent in the month of July itself when COVID is here. The more important thing for them is to save the life. So I think the movement will not become as free as you feel that the moment they say lockdown is opened, someone will come and buy the house, which I said some time, but in my opinion, if the things as we are going in the month of August and until that picks up and then our business in the first was coming, at that point of time, people take decisions. We plan that we'll try to reach to a disbursement and sanction target of disbursement, definitely more in -- a target of INR 2,000 crores by month -- by September, October. But it will all depend on COVID situation. Now coming to capital risk plan, we mentioned -- I mentioned, I think is on my response. See, if I go by the preferential allotment route, you would have heard PNB had mentioned that they will retain their stake at 26%, they won't let it fall below 26%. But if I go with the preferential allotment, PNB not being there, headroom is not available, at some point of time, like market cap of INR 2,600 crores only. So I would have got only INR 900 crores if I would have gone with the preferential route allotment. So that was not the right time. Depending on market conditions, we have taken a call that this valuation is not suitable at this point of time and looking to macroeconomic conditions, it is not a better time to go either through QIP or through preferential route. So the only option that we see at this time, is the best suitable option is the rights issue. So that is how we are planning and discussing with the stakeholders for our rights issue.

Ladies and gentlemen, that is the last question. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Deepika Gupta Padhi for her closing comment.

Thank you, everyone, for joining us on the call. If you have any questions unanswered, please feel free to get in touch with Investor Relations. The transcript of this call will be uploaded on our website, that is www.pnbhousing.com. Thank you.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of PNB Housing Finance, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.