PNC Infratech Limited (PNCINFRA) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the PNC Infratech Limited Q4 FY '21 Earnings Conference Call hosted by Dolat Capital. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Shravan Shah, VP Research and Analyst from Dolat Capital. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you, Faizaan. Good afternoon, everyone. I would like to welcome you all for Q4 FY '21 Results Conference Call of PNC Infratech Limited. We thank the management for giving us the opportunity to host the call. Today, we have senior management team of PNC Infratech with us. I congratulate the entire team of PNC Infratech for robust performance. Without wasting much time, I would now hand over the floor to the management for their opening remarks, and then we can have a Q&A. Over to you, sir.

Good afternoon, friends, and a very warm welcome to all of you present on the call to discuss our financial results for quarter 4 and financial year '21. Today, along with me, I have Mr. T. R. Rao, our Director, Infra; Mr. Sawhney, CFO; and Mr. Maheshwari, VP, Finance; and Strategic Growth Advisors, our Investor Relations advisers. I hope all of you and your loved ones are healthy and safe. I would like to discuss these sector highlights first, followed by financial and operational highlights of the company. However, the construction activities -- we started -- sorry, sorry, the pace of highway construction was lower during the period from April to October '20 due to COVID-19 induced restrictions and disruptions. However, the construction activities started reviving since November '20. The government continued to focus on infrastructure development and has announced an ambitious plan for development roads and highway worth INR 15 lakh crores over the next 2, 3 years as part of the national infrastructure pipeline. According to the MoRTH, over 7,300 infrastructure projects across the sector will be implemented under the national infrastructure pipeline with the total outlay of INR 111 lakh crores by year '25. Highway working activities by MoRTH and NHAI gathered pace in financial year '21 with 10,965 kilometer of highway awarded as compared to 8,948 kilometer in 2020. NHAI awarded 141 projects in financial year 2021, aggregating to 4,788 kilometers. In the awarding activity, HAM and EPC project occupies the largest share. Out of total projects awarded in 2021, only 2 were on BOT model, 69 projects on HAM model and built 70 projects on EPC. The NHAI is planning to award projects worth over INR 2 lakh crores in the current financial year. After witnessing a muted movement in halfway of '21 due to severe restriction imposed by government, road traffic witnessed a significant improvement in H2 of financial year '21, led by pickup in the movement commercial vehicle. National level FASTag based toll collection has picked up and risen to 97% of total collection in terms of revenue by March '21. While the strict restrictions imposed by various states across the country to contain the spread of more aggressive second wave of COVID-19, there has been significant deduction in tollable traffic, which would impact the toll revenue in '22. However, toll revenue are expected to rise from July '21 onwards provided the current trend of decline in COVID cases sustained. As a risk mitigation strategy, over the years, company focused on diverging project development business mix fund based and non-fund-based projects, which helped the company to achieve the growth momentum without renewing the concentration risk. Our focus area will continue to be roads and highway sector as a large number of project opportunities will continue to emerge in this space going forward. Just given this as being the large and nationwide rural drinking water supply program substantially funded by central government, we forayed into this sector by securing mandates in 5 revenue division of Uttar Pradesh compromising over 3,500 bridges in joint venture with the strategic partner, our company share in the JV being 95%. At present, the company has a total of 18 projects on PPP format comprising BOT toll, BOT Annuity, OMT and HAM assets. Out of 18 projects, 11 projects are operational and 7 projects are under construction. In the month of June 2021, we have secured PCOD for 3 HAM projects. In terms of the equity investment, the total requirement for all the 11 HAM projects is approximately INR 1,460 crores, out of which we have already invested INR 600 crores till March '21 and the balance will be invested over the next 2, 3 years. Internal accruals that would be generated over the next 2, 3 years should be sufficient to fund the total balance equity investment. Over the past few quarters, company worked towards diversification of the order book and the results will be given in our current order book landscape. During the financial year '21, we have received orders worth INR 7,677 crores. Our unexecuted order book as on 31st March '21 was over INR 11,600 crores. By including all the projects for which contract agreement have already been executed and awaiting declaration of appointed date as on 31st March '21, our order book would be over INR 16,500 crores. That gets lowest revenue visibility for company over the next 2, 3 years. Of the total order book of INR 16,500 crores, the road CPC contract contributes around 27%, HAM project contributes about 45% and water and the NR projects contribute around 38%. We continue to maintain one of the best credit ratings in the industry with CARE AA for long-term bank facilities and CARE A1+ for short-term bank facilities. A strong and sustainable credit rating in the current scenario is not only a testimony for our prudent financial management, but enable us to raise funds at competitive level. Now I would present the result for quarter ended March 31, '21. Standalone quarterly year revenue of fourth quarter of financial '21 is INR 1,644 crores, which is higher by 42 percentage compared to the INR 1,158 crores in fourth quarter of financial year '20. The EBITDA for fourth quarter is INR 232 crores which is higher by 49% as compared to INR 156 crores in fourth quarter of financial year '20. The EBITDA margin for the fourth quarter is 14.1%. The profit for fourth quarter of financial year '21 is INR 129 crores as compared to INR 76 crores in fourth quarter of financial year '20, a growth of 70% on year-to-year basis. Revenue for financial year '20 -- previous financial year includes INR 109 crores towards arbitration awards realized for Hapur-Moradabad project similarly. Other income includes interest of INR 36 crore received on above arbitration award. Hence the financial performance of financial year '21 is not objectively comparable to that extent with that of financial year '20. Revenue of financial year '21 is INR 4,925 crores and EBITDA is INR 673 crores. The EBITDA margin for financial year '21 is 13.7%. Profit of financial year '21 is INR 362 crores, which works out to 7.35%. Consolidated revenue of quarter 4 financial year '21 is INR 1,854 crore as compared to INR 1,347 crore in quarter 4 of financial year '20 registered a growth of 38%. The consol EBITDA for fourth quarter of financial year '21 is INR 420 crores, which grew by 42 percentage compared to 4 -- INR 295 crore for fourth quarter of the last year. The EBITDA margin for quarter 4 financial year '21 is at 22.5% as compared to 21.9% for quarter 4 financial year '20. The consol PAT for quarter 4 financial year '21 is INR 150 crore as compared to INR 90 quarter in quarter 4 quarter of the last year. The financial performance for financial year '21 is not comparable to financial year '20 due to arbitration award realized for Hapur-Moradabad project during second quarter of financial year '20 as mentioned earlier. Consol revenue of financial year '21 is INR 5,788 crores, whereas consol EBITDA is INR 1,418 crore. The EBITDA margin for '21 is 24.5%. Consol PAT for '21 is INR 493 crores, which works out to 8.5%. As on 31st March '21, our net working cycle is 51 days as compared to 57 days as on 31st March '20. On a standalone basis, our net worth is INR 2,908 crore as on 31st March '21, whereas entire stand-alone debt of INR 399 crore is equipment finance debt. As on 31st March, we do not have any working capital loan. The total cash and bank business as on 31st March '21 is INR 788 crores. We have a net cash of INR 389 crores. Net debt to equity is 0.14x. During financial year '21, we have incurred CapEx of INR 119 crores. The gross block as on 31st March '21 is INR 1,257 crores. On consol basis, our net worth is INR 3,053 crores and total debt is INR 4,188 crores as on 31st March '21. The total cash and bank balance including current investment is INR 1,402 crores. Net debt to equity is 1.37x. With this, we now open the floor for question and answer.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from DAM Capital.

Congratulations on a good set of numbers. My first question is what is your expectation for FY '22 revenues and margin? Do we expect any moderation in margin given the sharp price in cement and steel prices?

As regards the revenue growth, we are expecting 20% growth in FY '20 as compared to FY '21. But in this growth, we are not considering the impact of COVID-19 or third wave of COVID-19, but we are sure that FY '22 top line will be better than FY'21.

And on the margin, sir, margin given the sharp rise in the input prices?

Margins -- as regards EBITDA margin, we are expecting 13.5% to 14%.

Do you expect any impacts...

Because there will be much impact of steel and cement because we are having an increase on close in the EPC as well as in the HAM projects.

Okay. Understood, sir. So we were -- I think we were in talks to monetize our HAM portfolio, a part of HAM portfolio. Do you expect some -- that this we can close some of the deal in this particular fiscal year?

We are expecting, sir. Because we have already -- we are discussing it to interested investors, and we are expecting that in this FY '22, this should be finalized. Some of the HAM and BOT projects.

And the last question, sir, are we expecting this -- the appointed debt for UP JJM in the next few months?

Pardon?

When are we expecting the appointed date for the Uttar Pradesh Jal Jeevan Mission?

We have already received.

Actually, the -- out of 3 projects, 1 project account that we have already received and 2 projects, DPR is under process. As soon as DPR will be finalized, which we are expecting 2 or 3 months, then we will get back on due date.

The next question is from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities.

Congratulations on excellent all round performance during this year and also on working capital management. So my first question was now since we have 4 projects, which are already achieved the PCOD. So are we looking at refinancing these projects at lower rates?

As regard that we are financing, actually, our rate of interest of the PCOD after 1 -- receiving of first annuity, almost all the -- this 1 year MCLR. For example, average on pool, it is going on 1 year MCLR and at Kanpur we are having, in the sense that we mentioned that as soon as we will receive the PCOD, 1% to 5% rate will reduce. But certainly, we will see, in case if bank did not agree, then we can go for the refinancing.

But what kind of rates are we looking like? Will it be in the range of about 7% to 7.5% or more towards like 8?

MCLR, presently it is around in the range of 7.25% to 7.35%. Again Rajasthan highway, presently our ROI is at 7.25%. [indiscernible] we are expecting that all the lead bankers will reduce our ROI to the extent of 1 year MCLR, so it will be in the range of 7.25% to 7.5% depending on the bank's MCLR.

My second question was, sir, around the overall, as you see, the SPV debtor. So out of the total receivable, as of now how much will be the SPV debtor?

Out of the INR 839 crore, SPV debtors are INR 559 crores, which has reduced. Actually last year, March '20, it was 77%. No, it is 66%, sir.

And what will be the pending mobilization advance from NHAI on the balance sheet?

Advance from HAM project as on 31st March, INR 255 crore advance -- INR 255 crores advance, sir, in March '21.

This is only for HAM or is it total? I was asking total and HAM advances, total mobilization advancement. Can you give the...

We gave you almost on HAM because we are not taking the advance on PPP project, where rate of interest are 8% to 10%. We have taken the advance only of the HAM project, we have raised by 4.25%.

Okay. Just lastly on the deals, sir. So you said you've already started talking to the prospective investors. So who will be doing the O&M here? And what kind of discounting rate the markets are currently looking at? So is it early deals kind of discount rate? So do you see the scenario that where at least we'll try to get something into the book value of the investor liquidity. So if you can just touch upon one of these factors. Actually, valuation portion, we are under final state [Foreign Language]. And we are expecting that within a month or 2, we will almost finalize the valuation, thereafter they will start the due diligence, financial, technical and legally, sir.

The next question is from the line of Ashish Shah from Centrum Broking.

Sir, water projects [Foreign Language] just wanted to clarify, which are the 2 -- sorry, which is the 1 project where we have got the appointed date and where it is pending? Just to get the name of the projects.

We have received one for construction of Haraulipur Group of Villages Water Supply Scheme, that is surface water and electric solar-based pipe groundwater supply scheme, 125 numbers in villages of blocks near to district Hamirpur, we have received, that is costing about INR 242 crores.

Okay. And this we received in Q4?

Yes.

Okay. And the other, we are saying that [Foreign Language] in 2 to 3 months, we should be getting the start dates for the other projects, especially for this 1 or 2, 4, 7, 5.

Devipatan division, Bareilly division, Moradabad division, Aligarh division, we are expecting between 1 and 2 months.

Okay. Right, sir. Sir, this AP order, in our order book, has been classified as a part of the main order book where appointed date has been received. But is there a progress on the ground? Because there is some issue between AP and Telangana on some of these water and canal and irrigation projects. So what is the status on ground of the canal project?

The canal project has already started, and the work is going on.

We have already received the appointed date in canal project. It is in the -- our contract in hand. The remaining on 31st March was to help the water projects and Vadodara, 2 projects, which we have received in month of April and May, Vadodara. So as on date, already 2 and water project appoint date is pending.

Sir, just last question. On the consolidated basis, we are holding a very high amount of cash around INR 1,400 crores. So how much of the SPV cash is available for use for us? And how much is locked in as DSCR or something like that?

As against the total cash and the bank in consol in INR 1400 crore, out of that INR 800 crore around the [indiscernible]. So remaining is INR 600 crore cash and bank balance. That is mainly because of the [indiscernible] and the margins.

So it is not available. Basically, the INR 600 crores of all the SPVs put together is not available for use for the parent company, correct? It is locked. It is locked with the banks for some commitments or margin?

Right, right.

The next question is from the line of Bharani Vijayakumar from Spark Capital.

So in the order book mentioned of INR 11,648 crores, what are the irrigation and water supply projects present in that order book? And what are the names of it?

In INR 1100, 600 (sic) [ INR 11,600 crores ], INR 275 crores water project is there and INR 1,000 crores in HAM project.

The irrigation one, correct?

Irrigation.

Okay. So what is the progress there? So both this has just started or is that the INR 1,000 crores is still the same number as the original project cost of the irrigation product?

Yes. It has just started.

We have received first payment for Haraulipur water project.

Got it. And in the L1 orders, you are mentioning Delhi-Vadodara and the water supply projects of INR 2,475 crores plus another INR 950 crores. Of all these projects, when do we expect starting of the execution?

2 water projects, we are expecting appointed date in 2 or 3 months because DPR is under preparation. And Vadodara 2 project, we have already received the appointed date in the month of, one, April and, one, Monday. So as on date only 2 water projects appointed date is pending.

Okay. So one bookkeeping question. On the entire FY '21 basis, what was our order inflow overall?

Not hearing you.

What was our overall order inflow for FY '21, overall, for the year?

Hello?

Yes, sir, can you hear me?

Maheshwari, sir, he is asking what is the total order inflow for FY '21? Sir, sir, are you able to hear me?

Sir, this is the operator. Sir, are you able to hear us?

Yes. So I'm able to hear.

One moment, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we are trying to reconnect the management. Request you all to please stay online. [Technical Difficulty] Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for patiently waiting. The line for the management is reconnected. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

So this is Bharani again. If I'm audible, I was just asking the order inflow number for FY '21?

Order inflow in FY '21 was INR 7,677 crores, sir.

Okay. And final question on the order book split. In your presentation, you have given other projects as INR 4,473 crores. Can you give like project wise split of that number, sir? Like how much was Chakeri-Allahabad, how much was Jhansi-Khajuraho, like that?

In Aligarh-Kanpur, Package V is INR 1,651 crore; then Unnao-Lalganj, INR 1,371 crores; then Jagdishpur - Faizabad, INR 1,219 crores; then Meerut-Nazibabad, INR 1,115 crores; then sir, we have Challakere INR 872 crores; then Chakeri-Allahabad is INR 766 crores; Nagpur-Mumbai, INR 552 crores; then Purvanchal Package V at INR 365 crores; Purvanchal Package VI INR 347 crores; Nagina-Kashipur, INR 305 crores, Jhansi-Khajuraho is INR 199 crores, Bhojpur-Buxar, INR 156 crores; Chitradurga, INR 121 crores; Koilwar-Bhojpur INR 157 crores; and Jhansi-Khajuraho package INR 271 crore.

The next question is from the line of Vibhor Singhal from PhillipCapital.

Yes. Sir, my question was mainly on the order book strategy going forward. Sir, for the last few months, we have not won any HAM project despite, of course, MHI giving out a lot of projects in the month of April and May. Of course, our order book is very strong at INR 16,000 crores. So what is our strategy going forward? So are we going to bid for, let's say, more water and these Jal Jeevan mission projects if they come in the states of UP, MP or neighboring states? Or we have submitted other bids also for the HAM projects and we should get more EPC HAM projects from NHAI?

We have already submitted 11 EPC project bids, total estimated around INR 4,500 crores and 3 projects costing around INR 3,500 crores. So we are expecting around INR 7,000 crores to INR 8,000 crores budget in the next quarter.

Okay. For the full year, sir, how much would we be expecting total order inflow?

Might be around INR 8,000 crores, we are expecting in this financial year.

Actually, it may fall in between INR 16,000 crores in hand. INR 8,000 crores, INR 9000 crores, we are expecting by FY '22. Total will be INR 25,000 crores, so which will be for comfortably 3 years, we can execute.

Right. And sir, we're expecting 20% growth in top line, right? That is the guidance you've mentioned.

Yes. At this point of time, but we don't know about the COVID-19 impact and third wave of COVID-19.

Definitely. Yes. And sir, what is the total gross debt at the stand-alone level in March '21?

Standalone total gross debt of INR 399 crores, that was purely for term loan taking for purchasing of the equipment. Pardon?

So the INR 399 crores was the debt and INR 788 crores of cash. So net cash, we have INR 389 crores, right?

INR 389 crores, yes.

Sir. Lastly, I just wanted to check on this. Sir, apart from these NHAI HAM EPC project and the water projects that we are looking in the division, are we looking for any other projects? So like me took the canal project in AP. Are there any other large projects that we are looking to bid for over the, let's say -- I mean, in different parts of the country, not just UP and the neighboring, but in other places, in other segments?

Not presently. But we are bidding in highway sector continuously.

Bidding in the highway sector, right. And sir, last question. Any other COD that we're expecting for HAM projects this year?

Out of 11, this month, we have received PCOD of 3 projects, total project PCOD we have already raced. And 1 project we are expecting in the month of October, that is JKP I, and in the financial year, we received the COD of the Chakeri-Allahabad also.

Okay. So we're expecting 2 PCODs this year?

Yes.

The next question is from the line of Jiten Rushi.

Congratulations on good set of numbers. Sir, can you just give the toll numbers for the BOT project, including Ghaziabad-Aligarh?

Yes. Fourth quarter MP highway were INR 13.4 crores and Kanpur-Ayodhya were INR 114 crores. Kanpur highway were INR 29.6 crores; Narela were INR 11.8 crores; Bareilly-Almora were INR 13.5 crores and Rae Bareli-Jaunpur were INR 32.16 crores and Ghaziabad-Aligarh was INR 59.4 crores.

59 point ?

INR 59.4 crores.

And sir, on the...

This also came as a growth of 20% as compared to fourth quarter of last year.

In terms of execution, sir, so what was the status in April-May, like we must be facing issues in terms of labor. And so what was the execution level as compared to the pre-COVID levels?

There is not much impact on COVID-19 in April-May because in some of the projects, it's impacted, but in most of the projects, we are working -- exhibition is going on.

So we can safely assume not much impact in the execution in Q1.

One of the impact [Foreign Language].

Right, sir. Right, sir. And sir, in terms of the order backlog. So if you can give the order backlog for Aligarh-Kanpur, the older HAM project, not the Package V, the earlier package.

Package II is completed. We have received PCOD. Almost 98%, 99% is completed.

Yes. The JKP II, we've only received the PCOD. Similarly, Chitradurga also, we have received the PCOD. So in all 3 projects, 98%, 99% work has already been completed.

Okay, sir. So JKP II only, you said INR 71 crores work is pending, right, sir?

And Lakhimpur is completed.

And sir, the Lucknow Ring Road package, sir? You were mentioning the present. Sorry, sir, sorry, my bad. And sir, on the other questions, equity investment, as you said, balance requirement. So can you give us the breakup of the equity investments to be made in the next 2 to 3 years, sir?

Actually, in all 11 HAM projects, we require around INR 1,460 crores equity commitment. Out of that, INR 600 crores, we have already infused in March. So around INR 860 crores equity is required in next 2, 3 years, which is very sufficient in our cash accruals.

So can you give us a breakup in FY '22, how much you'll invest in '23 and '24, if possible?

In FY '22, around INR 350 crores; FY '23, INR 319 crores, and FY '14 (sic) [ FY '24 ], INR 300 crores. Actually, it may vary. It could depend on the -- it takes a business mind. Actually to maintain the debt equity, we insure the equity at that month of time only [indiscernible].

And sir, just on the -- so there was one article on the GST, which will be applicable on the annuity payments. So so far, the GST was exempt on the annuity payments. So there was the article also and there was a circular from NHAI. Sir, any thought on that, sir, now how you will receive the annuity payments? Whether you will receive the full payment? Or you will get net of GST and that would be some extension in consistent period to compensate for the GST? Any thoughts on that, sir?

Sir, it's like there that now these contracts, which were -- we have been classified as entity contract are rather now it has been clarified that these are construction contracts and GST would be applicable on total value of contracts during the construction period only. But any case, GST is payable by NHAI. So as far as payment is concerned, we are covered. But when the payment is made, that is still under NHAI clarification is required. So waiting for that, that when this GST would be paid. In future, we would be taking care of all that cost, which is extra to us. But in past contracts, we are covered by NHAI guidelines that they have to pay us.

The next question is from the line of Rushabh Shah from USICS Investment Advisory.

Sir, congratulations on the numbers. I just had a question. I'm looking at the cash flow statement. And I'm noticing that the operating cash flow -- the net operating cash flow, it has been through a sharp decline this year as compared to the previous year. So could you please tell me the reasons behind that?

It's definitely mainly because of use of the working capital in this year as compared to last year.

I'm sorry, can you repeat that, please?

It is mainly because of the use of the working capital in this year as compared to last year. If you see the cash flow, yes.

And -- my follow-up question is -- another question actually. Considering the government spending in the infrastructure sector, in UP and MP built. What are your future expectations for future orders?

Future orders, FY '22, we are expecting around INR 8,000 crores to INR 9,000 crores. So presently, we are having INR 15,000 crores, so total will be INR 25,000 crores, which will be sufficient for 3 to 4 years -- 3 years top line.

Okay. And one more last question. What is the bottom line margins that you are expecting for the FY '22?

EBITDA margin, we are expecting 13.5% to 14%, sir, EBITDA margin.

EBITDA margins, okay.

Next question is from the line of Shrey Pujari from Kotak IDF.

Most of my questions have been answered. Just had one query, if you could help me with that. Sir, I wanted to know what would be the physical progress for your HAM projects? Are you -- as you mentioned, for the 3 projects, you have received PCOD. Apart from that, you could help with the physical progress as on March for the other projects as well?

Actually, remaining 3 projects are Aligarh, Kanpur -- sorry, Jhansi-Khajuraho Package I and Chakeri-Allahabad. We got third one, Challakere, we have recently started because we have not pointed it earlier. So as our MDA could confirm that JKP I, Jhansi-Khajuraho project, we are expecting to complete by October and Chakeri, we will expecting to complete by end of the financial year.

Okay. Okay. Understood. So the other projects are basically Jagdishpur-Faizabad, Aligarh-Kanpur, these have received the appointed recently only, right?

Yes, yes, yes.

But work had started all these projects.

The next question is from the line of Parvez Akhtar Qazi from Edelweiss Securities.

Congratulations for a good set of numbers. Two questions from my side. First is, what are our thoughts on the competitive intensity for the various segments where we are bidding going ahead? And second, what is our expectation on the CapEx and tax rate going there?

CapEx, we are expecting INR 125 crores in FY '22. And as regards our tax rate, since we have already used our net credit, so we are expecting 28.5% in this FY '22 tax rate.

And about the competitive intensity?

You can say moderate to high.

The next question is from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities.

Sir, can you please update on the Aligarh-Ghaziabad deal? So what status it is? And how much of inflows you're expecting now versus the open investments which we have made?

Actually, can you repeat?

Sir, on the Aligarh-Ghaziabad Expressway deal, if you can explain to us how much is the inflows you're expecting? And by what time -- what stage the deal is currently and when do you expect the inflows?

Actually, Aligarh-Ghaziabad, we have already filed the share purchase agreement with Cube Highways on 1st of April. Then we moved to bankers. There are 10 bankers, and we have received the NOC from all the 10 bankers. And we have approached to our NHAI, and we are expecting that by end of this month, we will receive the change in ownership. We will receive the NOC from -- change in ownership from NHAI. The deal will be finalized in a month.

So how much is the consideration you're expecting? Because last time, I remember we were expecting close to about INR 320 crores of inflow. So how much will be that number this time?

I think, at this point of time, we can't tell the exact amount because we have to receive the payment from NHAI for our claims. At the time of change in ownership, we will receive the valuation from Cube Highway. But we are expecting that there should not be any impairment in this granular level. Should not be, let us see. There is a discussion going on with the NHAI. Let us see how much claim they will clear and pass on.

In total, how much is the investment on which you are not expecting any impairment?

Total investment including [indiscernible] and secured loan and EPC is somewhere around INR 410 crores.

So on this, we are not expecting any impairment. So at least the base value should be closer to about INR 400 crores in the worst case.

Yes. But actually, it will depend on the claim to be passed by the NHAI.

So how much is the claim in this, sir? When I checked claim, you has basically applied for it.

It is going on, sir. Discussion [ Foreign Language].

Okay. Sure, sir. And just lastly, on the Ganga Expressway. Sir, can you just highlight what is your update on that project bidding and at what stage of bidding has happened? Yogesh, sir, so Yogesh, you can explain.

Yes. Actually, the whole BOT toll project of INR 594 crores long kilometer long 6-lane axis control greenfield and the Expressway is announced by UP government that is costing around INR 22,000 crores. So at present, we are preparing, but we will see what will be the position in the future?

Sure, Okay. And just lastly, just one thing on the high-speed rail projects, are we looking a bid for any of these -- look at some of our peers and competitors have bid and tied up with JVs and the other developers and construction developers. So are we looking to bid for any of these high-speed rail passages?

No, no. We are not bidding for any high-speed rail projects.

The next question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from DAM Capital.

Sir, my question is the investment bank charges for FY '21 came down significantly compared to FY '21. How should we think about the investment bank charge in FY '22? Will it increase and go back to FY '20 levels? Or do you think this level will continue?

Actually, if you will compare FY '20, no doubt financial expenses has been reduced from what 1,100 -- INR 114 crore to INR 75 crores. That is mainly because of the mobilization advance we have taken for Nagpur-Mumbai, which are rates of 12% interest, interest bearing. So presently, in March, we were having only INR 255 crore advance from the department, which are at a rate of 4.25%. We are not taking the advance, which are 8% to 10% charged by NHAI or above 30s. So in case you will see the interest on mobilization advance was INR 53 crores and this year required only INR 21 crores. That is mainly because of that. And future also, we are expecting that it should be in the range of current year or maybe 10% increase.

Okay. And sir, what are the charges for the guarantee we are paying right now, in the sense for the performance guarantee and all for our order book, a rough number, sir, please?

You want the total amount?

Sir, roughly as a percentage of our order book, let's say, INR 16,000 crores is our order book, you must have given some guarantee, right? What kind of guarantee charge have we paid in FY '21?

Around INR 16 crores.

Okay. Understood. And lastly, sir, are you looking to bid for metro? Or is Metro completely is not in our scope of things? Elevated section, particularly?

No. We are not bidding for Metro because the competitiveness is very high in the Metro section.

The next question is from the line of Vibhor Singhal from Phillip Capital.

Yes. Just 1 small bookkeeping question from my side. Sir, can you just give us the number, the amount outstanding on 2 projects, Chakeri-Allahabad and Varanasi-Gorakhpur.

Chakeri-Allahabad and Varanasi-Gorakhpur?

Yes, sir.

Varanasi-Gorakhpur is INR 26 crores, outstanding debt about INR 26 crores, Varanasi-Gorakhpur.

Okay, sir. And remaining is?

Chakeri.

Chakeri-Allahabad.

Chakeri was -- it was negligible, INR 20 crores.

Sir, Chakeri-Allahabad is only INR 20 crores?

Yes.

Okay. So last quarter, I think it was around INR 886 crores.

Yes. Last year -- last quarter, yes. It was higher, yes.

Okay. And sir, Aligarh-Kanpur, your recent project, you have mentioned that is already complete.

Yes. Actually in the SPV, the debtors depend on our disbursement. We take the disbursement only when outstanding is there because last monthly outstanding came early.

Maheshwari, sir, I think he is asking outstanding order book. So Chakeri-Allahabad, last quarter was INR 886 crores was pending order book.

Sorry, I have told the debtor outstanding actually. Chakeri-Allahabad outstanding was INR 766 crores.

Right. And sir, but the number that you gave for Varanasi-Gorakhpur is correct, right, INR 260 crores -- INR 26 crores in the order book.

Also I've given the debt on outstanding, sir.

Right. What is the order book number?

Yes, just wait. It is INR 57 crores.

INR 57 crores?

INR 57 crores, yes.

The next question is from the line of Jiten Rushi from Axis Capital.

Sir, my question was relating to the bonus, which you were supposed to receive for 1 of the projects like Aligarh-Moradabad. Sir, we have not so far received the bonus. Sir, any issue with that project, sir, for the bonus?

Actually, we filed [indiscernible] under -- at a level, and we are expecting that it will -- so we will receive by September '21, sir. It is actual level, sir, of NHAI.

So that would be around INR 11 crores to INR 12 crores, right, sir?

Yes.

How much, sir? Hello?

Around INR 13 crore.

Okay. And sir, on the bookkeeping side, can you give me the fund base and non-fund base limit and utilization and the retention money and unbilled revenue, if any, sir, as on March.

Fund based limit utilization is zero. And...

What is the limit, sir?

INR 1,000 crores.

Okay. And zero utilization, okay. And non-fund based?

Sanction is INR 5,000 crores. We're utilizing around INR 2,800 crores.

Okay. And the retention and unbilled revenue, if any, as on March?

Retention will be around INR 3.5 crores.

That's it. And any unbilled, sir?

Sorry, retention is around INR 200 crores.

Okay. And unbilled is INR 3.5 crores, right, sir?

Unbilled, it is very negligible.

And sir, on the arbitration, sir, any ongoing arbitration other than Ghaziabad-Aligarh for claims, sir, in terms of value, can you -- and number of projects,can you tell me?

[Foreign Language] at the process due to 4 projects, yes.

What would be the value, sir, for the arbitration?

[Foreign Language]

Around INR 1,000 crores.

So this was NHAI or non-NHAI?

With NHAI and major part with NHAI.

Okay. Major part with NHAI. Okay. Okay. And sir, in terms of the water projects, so we will be executing the 100% portion of the -- in the JVs. So we should take 100% order backlog in the water project or it will be pro rata, and we would take the order backlog?

We are executing 95% work.

Okay. So we should be taking pro rata in the order backlog, right, sir?

In order and we are taking only 95%.

So the value which you have mentioned in the presentation is the full project value, your share will be 95%.

In that thing, and 95%, yes. The INR 275 crore we have taken, it is 95%.

Your would be 95%.

The next question is from the line of Deepak Mehta, Individual Investor.

It's a great set of numbers. So my question is around for the future, we are looking for growth in revenue or profitability we want to focus on, sir?

Hello?

Hello? Yes, sir.

Pardon, please.

Can you repeat, sir?

So my question is around the -- we are focusing more on revenue growth or we want to keep the profitability at the same time because I think there will be more government, in fact, spends on new buildings, sir.

Hello?

Hello?

Mr. Mehta?

Yes, sir. Hello?

Yes, we can hear you, sir. Please go ahead.

So my question is that, as you know, that government's spending is going to increase in the next 3 years and this year. So our company focus while bidding will be on revenue growth or we want to keep the profitability as well?

We have sufficient order book around INR 1,700 crores. So we will not compromise with the profit also.

Okay, sir. Okay. And how is the cost factor in near term or in the next 2 to 3 years because all the commodities and inflation price -- inflation is up right now. So if any other you can probe.

Has already told earlier that we will take -- continue the EBITDA at 13.5% to 14%, sir. We will not compromise with the margins for taking the orders.

Okay. And do we think that all the solar infra where our company can also participate in the bidding and all in this space, sir.

So we have not bid any solar sector.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Jiten Rushi from Axis Capital.

There was 1 Ropeway project which we had won in Haridwar. So what is the status? Like is it -- are we going ahead with the project or it got canceled, sir? Hello?

Hello?

Yes, sir. Can you -- did you get my question, sir? Or can I repeat? Sir, I'm asking about the Ropeway project, which we had won in Haridwar, small project of INR 250 crores, INR 300 crores. So are we going ahead with the project or the project has got canceled because there was only 1 bidder for this project. So what is the status for that project, please?

This is the operator. Are you able to hear us?

Sir, I can hear. I don't know the management. Sir, can you hear me?

Ladies and gentleman, we are trying to reconnect the management. We request you all to please stay connected. [Technical Difficulty] Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for patiently waiting. The line for the management is reconnected. Thank you, and over to you, sir. Mr. Rushi, please repeat your question.

Yes. So my question was regarding the personalized rapid transit project in the Haridwar city. It was on the PPP model and we were declared the lowest bidder. So are we going ahead with the project or the project has been canceled?

No. Project is canceled because we are the single bidder, so we are not so much interested in this.

So are we looking to bid for similar projects in future, like such projects? Or we will be focusing only on roads and water right now?

We are focusing roads and water project.

And no Metro also, elevated also?

Yes, yes, yes.

[Operator Instructions] As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Shravan Shah for closing comments.

Sir, just 1 clarification. How much early completion bonus are we expecting in Nagpur and Purvanchal of both the packages?

Actually, we are expecting Aligarh-Moradabad, one bonus and we have only also completed Aligarh-Kanpur 46 days before its due date. So we are expecting these 2 projects, 1 around these 2 projects.

Okay. And no bonus in Mumbai-Nagpur and Purvanchal.

We are expecting, but the project is going on. So we cannot say exact amount.

At this point of time. We are expecting Purvanchal as well as the Nagpur-Mumbai, both.

Okay. Okay. Got it. Got Sir, I thank you, management of PNC, for giving us the opportunity to host the call. and also thank all the participants. Sir, if you have any closing comments?

Thank you, everyone, for your participation in our earning call. We have uploaded the presentation of our company website. In case of further queries, you may get in touch with the Strategic Growth advisers, our Investor Relations advisers or feel free to get in touch with us. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Dolat Capital, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.