PNC Infratech Limited (PNCINFRA) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the PNC Infratech Limited Q1 FY '23 Earnings Conference Call hosted by Dolat Capital. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. I would like to welcome you all for Q1 FY '23 results conference call of PNC Infratech Limited. We thank the management for giving us the opportunity to host the call. We have senior management team of PNC Infratech with us. I congratulate the entire team for PNC Infratech for robust performance in Q1 FY '23. Without wasting much time, I would now hand over the floor to Mr. Yogesh sir for opening remarks, and then we can have a Q&A session. Over to you, sir.

Good afternoon, everyone, and a very warm welcome to all of you present on the call to discuss for quarter 1 financial year '23. Along with me, I have Mr. T.R. Rao, Director, Infra; Dr. Bhupin Sawhney, CFO; and Mr. D. Maheshwari, Vice President, Finance; and Strategic Growth Advisors, our investor relations advisers. First, I will share my thoughts on a few sectoral highlights, which will be followed by financial and operational highlights of the company. The pace of highway construction in quarter 1 of financial year '23 in the country slowed down and stood at 22 kilometers a day compared to 25 kilometers a day on the year-on-year basis due to higher input costs and early onset of monsoon in some parts of the country. Ongoing active monsoon across the country, continuous rains and flood-like situation in some parts are expected to affect pace of construction in the first half of quarter 2 of financial year '23. MoRTH and NHAI contemplating to reduce the upfront payment by half in HAM projects. In such case, 20% of bid project cost would only be paid during construction compared to current norm of 40%. As there would be increased private investment in hand projects, NHAI would be able to build out and fund higher number of projects with the same capital. NHAI is planning to award around 10% of projects on BOT toll mode from its target of 6,500 kilometers in the current fiscal with certain modification in the contract conditions. Now coming to the key updates of the company. The company received INR 37 crores towards bonus on 20th April 2022 for early completion of Purvanchal Expressway Package VI, proving the company's recent education capabilities. During quarter 1, the company signed concession agreement with NHAI for 6 HAM projects out of 7 HAM projects awarded to company during the quarter 4 of financial year '22. Consistent agreement of remaining project 4 laning of Sonauli-Gorakhpur will be signed shortly. During the quarter, the company has completed sale of its entire 35% share in Ghaziabad Aligarh Expressway Private Limited to Cube Highways and realized the capital. Discussions are underway with the potential investor for monetization of other fund-based projects which are already in operation and expected to be completed during the next 1 year. We will keep you update on the same going forward. As mentioned in the previous earnings call, company continues to look for a calibrated diversification, maintain the growth momentum without assuming the concentration risk. However, our focus area remains the low sector. At present, the company has total 24 projects in PPP mode comprising BOT toll, BOT annuity, OMT and HAM assets. Out of 24 projects, company has 18 HAM with an aggregate bid project cost of INR 24,590 crores. In HAM portfolio of 18 projects, company achieved PCOD and COD for 5 projects, 6 projects are under construction and balance 7 projects are recently awarded. In terms of equity investment, the total requirement for all 18 HAM projects is approximately INR 2,390 crores, out of which, we have already invested INR 1,029 crores till June '22, and the balance will be invested over the next 2, 3 years. The internal accruals that would be generated over next 2, 3 years should be sufficient to fund the total equity investment. The company received lowest order inflow in quarter 4 financial year '22. Our unexecuted order book as on 30th June '22 was over INR 20,000 crores after including 7 new HAM projects of INR 7,439 crores from NHAI, where the company received letters of award. Out of the total order book of over INR 20,000 crores, lowest EPC contract including HAM contribute around 61% and water and education projects contribute around 39%. Now I would present the result of quarter ended 30th June '22. Revenue of first quarter of financial year '23 is INR 1,758 crores, which is higher by 41% as compared to INR 1,251 crores in first quarter of financial year '22. The EBITDA for the first quarter is INR 258 crores, which is higher by 47% as compared to INR 175 crores in quarter 1 of financial year '22. The EBITDA margin for the first quarter of financial year '23 is 14.7%. The PAT for the first quarter of financial year '23 is INR 167 crores as compared to INR 93 crores in the first quarter of financial year '22, a growth of 79% on year-to-year basis. Consol revenue of first quarter of financial year '23 is INR 2,053 crores as compared to INR 1,463 crores in quarter 1 of financial year '22, growth of 40%. The consol EBITDA for the first quarter of financial year '23 is INR 518 crores, which is higher by 43% as compared to INR 363 crores for the first quarter of the corresponding quarter last year. The EBITDA margin for quarter 1 financial year '23 is 25.2%. The consol PAT for quarter 1 financial year '23 is INR 241 crores as compared to INR 118 crores in quarter 1 financial year '22, a growth of 104%. As on 30th June '22, our net working cycle is 68 days as compared to 77 days as on 31st March '22. Our net worth on standalone basis is INR 3,526 crores as on 30th June '22, whereas total standalone debt is INR 300 crores. The total cash and bank balance as on 30th June 2022 is INR 463 crores. We have a net debt of INR 163 crores. This translates to net debt to equity of 0.09x. On consol basis, our net worth is INR 3,868 crores, whereas total debt is INR 5,129 crores as on 31st March '22. The total cash and bank balance, including current investment, is INR 1,048 crores. This translates to net debt to equity of 1.19x. With this, we now open the floor for question-answer.

[Operator Instructions]

Yes. Before starting the question and answer, just would like to declare the disclaimer clause and also safe harbor for whatever the discussions that will happen, including the forward-looking statements what we are going to make.

Okay. So sir, do you want me to go ahead with the disclaimer?

Yes.

Okay, sir. Please give me a moment. Shravan? Please go ahead with the disclaimer.

Sir, if you speak the disclaimer, that would be better from your side.

You can read up if you have readily available, you can read out the disclosure, it's a standard disclosure.

Okay. I do not have that readily available.

Okay, sir. I'll just read it out. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on the beliefs, opinions and expectations of the company as on date of this call. These statements are not guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. So sir, can we go ahead with the questions?

Yes, yes, please.

Okay. So the first question comes from the line of Bharani Vijayakumar from Spark Capital.

Regarding this MoRTH and NHAI's contemplation to reduce their contribution in HAM projects from 40% to 20%. How is the contracting and the developers like you onboard for this? Would your aggression in bidding going forward, would it be the same given now the equity outflow will be higher from our side?

First of all, see, whatever bids we secured, they are not aggressive per se. So they are all well calibrated bids what we have done. And the second thing it's a 20% more funding to be done. So this will effectively result into only another 5% kind of equity because we have to get the debt for that remaining 20% what we have to fund, so we should be able to fund those kind of equity requirements even if NHAI goes for the 20% kind of the norm because earlier also, we bid for a conventional annuity project, wherein we used to put 100% of our entire funding from our side.

So you don't foresee any issues from our side?

Yes. Yes. We don't foresee any major challenges in funding these projects.

This will go just like annuity projects.

Yes, yes. Conventional annuity projects.

Okay. The second question is on land acquisition status for the projects recently awarded to us, the 7 projects where there is not appointed dates declared yet. So what would be the land acquisition status there, 3G land acquisition there and when do you expect these appointed dates, sir?

Out of 7 projects, for 5 projects already 3D completed up to 80% and also the awards have been made under 3G and the distribution is under progress under 3H. And the 2 projects up to 60% awards have been made under 3G and distribution is progress under 3H. Since we have a 5-month time post signing of the agreement, both sides, this what we expect, the sufficient length of land would be available at the time of declaration of appointed dates, we don't foresee major constraint in that aspect.

The next question comes from the line of Mohit Kumar from DAM Capital.

Congratulations on very, very good quarter. My first question is on the margins. So of course, margins have improved in this quarter. But last Q4 was the margin compression, given that the import inflation reducing, can we expect to go back to 14% margin for the fiscal?

Actually, in this first quarter, the margin is 14.5% EBITDA margin. And if we exclude the [indiscernible] of INR 37 crores, it comes to INR 12.83 crores. And if we exclude the [indiscernible] EPE, EPE business, where we are having a collection of INR 104 crores and margin only of 2%, then the operational EBITDA margin 13.5% of this quarter.

So I'm asking, sir, about the expectation for the FY '23. Can we expect the margin going back to 14%, 14.5% given that the inflation is also easing now, right? Is that a fair assumption?

Yes, 13.5% to 14%.

Understood, sir. Secondly, sir, you alluded to diversification of the order book. Of course, we have a large order book for UP. Do you mean geographically or sector you want to classify the order book? And apart from water, is there any segment you think you can build upon in the next few years?

See, this, what we are looking at the diversification, the areas which will have a synergy with our operations, and water, of course, we are looking at the opportunities in the water sector. So if new further opportunities come, so we'll pursue those opportunities. And as of now, other than water, and of course, some kind of canal or irrigation projects apart from the road projects, now presently, we are not looking at any other specific sector to diversify into. And of course, geographically, we are always ready to take up the projects across the country should there be any good project opportunities.

Lastly, sir, can we expect the completion of monetization in this fiscal, at least one of the BOT or HAM?

As regard to monetization, strategic adviser retained and discussions are underway with the potential investor for monetization of the few other funded projects, and we will keep you updated on the same going forward. Discussions are going on with the potential investor.

Next question comes from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities.

Congratulations on a good quarter. So my first question is on the JJM project. So [indiscernible]

Parikshit, could you come again, please?

Sir, what is the execution or revenue booked from the JJM order during this quarter? That's my first question.

See, so far, under JJM, we booked a revenue of around INR 250 crores. That includes INR 108 crores revenue what we booked during the last financial year. And we also done work done of another INR 150 crores, that revenue would be booking during the month of August. So I can say around INR 400 crores worth of value of work done until now under the JJM sector.

So most of the other companies are seeing good execution engagement, but somehow we have not been able to catch up, these orders are like very old in the order book now. So if you can just spell out for this year, how much of revenue can we book from JJM orders and also outstanding on the backlog from the JJM?

See, as you know, we secured projects under 3 different phases. First phase is a small surface water, which we have around INR 250 crores. And the Phase 2, we have around 1,600 gram panchayat with around 3,500 standard setting, and then Phase 3, we have another 1,500. That's also a similar kind of a thing. But so far, the DPRs for 702 GPs approved and the cover agreement signed with a worth of INR 1,552 crores. So the total order book, I would say, which is a executable order book, 1,552 plus Phase 1 is another 250, total we have order book of INR 1,700 crores. I would say that is a practical better order backlog. Out of these INR 1,700 crores, so we executed around INR 400 crores worth of projects work done now. Going forward, we should be able to execute anything between INR 1,200 crores to INR 1,500 crore during the current financial year.

Okay. And sir, so in the order book, how much is the total INR 20,000 crores order book, how much is the value of the JJM orders in that order book?

It is now, as I said, 39%. Comes to around 39% up to -- including canal -- yes, yes, including canal, if you add -- 7,000 --35%.

Because, sir, you were also saying that --sir, you are saying that only INR 1,700 crores worth of order is right now executable. But you are saying in the order book about INR 6,000 crores is the value of the projects. So balance 6,000 minus 1,700. So that is not executable as of now, right?

Yes. See, but now they are progressively approving this DPR and another INR 1,000 crores worth of DPRs are going to be approved before the end of the current calendar year. And a total 1,500 worth of projects will be approved during the current financial year. So then the executable work would be around INR 3,200 crores. And the remaining they would be approving during the next financial year.

Okay. And just last question, sir, on the AP projects. If you can just tell us what is the progress and for total order book outstanding. What was the revenue booked for this quarter?

AP?

AP irrigation project, what is the total revenue booked during the quarter? And what is the outstanding order book?

See, AP is actually contract value is INR 1,000 crores, I think how much we booked?

Actually, we have done the work till as on date around INR 150 crores till date because certain works were not partly completed in June and not be booked in June, it was WIP and till date around INR 150 crores we have executed and remaining INR 850 crores we have outstanding as on date.

Okay sir. Because there is no movement on this project also. So I mean water projects have been very sluggish for us from the execution side, in last quarter, the execution is only coming from roads, and though water starts contributing when the revenue can actually ramp up significantly, so just wondering why there is no movement on these water order book?

No, no. In water, total payment received under Phase 1 and Phase second, we have received INR 377 crores including mobilization advance, yes. And work done is around INR 300 crores. We have received payment.

This year and the last year INR 100 crores, so INR 400 crores work done we have done.

No, sir, the payment is fine, but execution is not ramping up, so is it because the government approvals are little delayed and that's the reason why we've not been able to ramp up in a year. I wanted to understand that.

[Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language]

Next question comes from the line of Jayesh Gandhi from Harshad Gandhi Securities.

Congratulations on good set of numbers. So actually, I have recently started following the company. So my questions might be not very, very particular. One question which I have is, so when we get a HAM order, how much portion do we consider it as an EPC and recognize it in revenue?

It is, you can say, 90% of EPC -- up to 90% of the EPC.

I think what I'm seeing is EPC.

EPC is construction cost.

So if I'm getting INR 100 crores worth of a HAM order, EPC recognition is to what amount?

It is INR 900 crore -- INR 100 crores and INR 90 crores.

See, INR 100 crores of typical HAM projects will roughly translate into INR 90 crores of EPC order.

Okay. And that we take into revenue recognition as and when it is progressing? Or once it is completed there after that we take into revenue recognition?

On a progressive basis…

On a progressive basis as and when physical work is done.

Say, for example, if a project takes 2 years, 50% is completed this year and 50% next year. So 50% we take as revenue this year and 50%...

Yes, yes. 50% of the EPC.

Next question comes from the line of Vibhor Singhal from PhillipCapital.

Congrats on great execution again. Sir, just wanted to understand, sir, I don't know, I'm sorry if somebody has asked this question already before. So given that in this quarter, we have already done almost INR 1,700 crores of revenue, excluding the bonus of course. What is the full year revenue that we are looking at? So in terms of guidance, what is the revenue that we are looking for revenue and for margin for the full year?

Revenue would be around 15%, the guidance growth we are looking at this year, I see last year revenue of INR 6,306 crores. So with the 15% that should be around INR 7,200 crores this year for full year. And the EBITDA margin is, as our Managing Director told, it could be around 13.5%.

13.5%?

Yes, around.

So sir, to do 13.5%, given that in this quarter, we did around 12.8%, if I exclude the early completion bonus. So do you expect margins to pick up in the next coming quarters, either because of commodity prices coming down? Or what would be the reason for that?

Next quarter, EBITDA margin is 13.53% after deducting bonus and EPE. EPE margin because EPE margin is only 2%. So operational margin of the road project is still in this quarter, 13.5%.

[Foreign Language]

We are expecting same.

Got it. Got it, sir.[Foreign Language] we have discussed a lot. So sir, as you rightly said, we should not [Foreign Language] execution starts [Foreign Language] are we looking to continue to bid for more orders in UP or other states? Do you think [Foreign Language] do you still think that we will continue to bid for these projects?

We are bidding on the same area [Foreign Language] it is a natural phenomena. [Foreign Language]. It is responsibility of stage government, and directly district collector is responsible.

Okay, sir. Right. Sir, just last question from my side. Sir, asset monetization [Foreign Language] HAM projects [Foreign Language] what is the status? And when can we expect some good news on that front?

We are expecting FY '23 and the discussions are underway with the potential investors.

Okay. So no change in that. So the discussions are still going on, and we expect to keep year-end [Foreign Language]

We are expecting.

Next question comes from the line of Dhruv Bhimrajka from Monarch AIF.

Yes. My area of question is regard to the impairment in the Aligarh, Ghaziabad project SMA 2. So wanted to understand that, why did we have to book an impairment during the sale of this project?

That impairment we have already booked in FY '22. We have certain challenges are there because Ghaziabad in the SMA 2. We have to construct office learning. Our partner was not in a position to improve further money in the project, that's why we have Ghaziabad project.

Okay. So that is why we took an impairment and then sold off the project?

Right.

Okay. And what is the total impairment which we took for this project that is INR 129 crores, right in all?

Total it is around INR 167 crores, both in the December quarter and the March quarter.

Okay. So total is INR 167 crores, you told?

Yes.

Okay. And last thing, what was the bonus that we received for early completion in FY '22?

FY '22, just assume for one project, so onetime package price, INR 82 crores premises, if you will.

Okay. So total bonus for early completion in FY '22 was INR 82 crores and impairment for this project overall is INR 167 crores?

Yes. And in FY '23 first quarter, we received bonus of INR 37 crores, one-time package fees.

Next question comes from the line of Jiten Rushi from Axis Capital.

First I would need the order backlog breakup of the projects. So I will just deliver other pack at 31 and deliver pack at 29?

With 31, it's is 789. And at 29, it's 758.

So this is -- I am not asking the original order book.

Sorry, 351 or 298.

And Bhojpur and Gwalior, Bhojpur?

Bhojpur are at INR 29 crore and Bhojpur…

Gwalior-Bhojpur?

Gwalior is only INR 7 crore. It is negligible.

And Chakeri-Allahabad?

Chakeri-Allahabad, INR 268 crore.

And this OMT contract, how much is outstanding now?

OMT?

OMT I think is the -- peripheral expressways? Toll roads.

Toll collection has progressively whatever we get. So there is no order backlog bar as such as well as I think Q1, we have 100 -- in case we bid at 369, accordingly, it is outstanding around INR 175 crores in next 6 months.

Okay. INR 175 crores. You've done good collection in this quarter. And on this, you have given the breakup of the 7 HAM projects and the break-up of the total value of INR 7,439 crores, that is the total EPC value of these 7 HAM projects, right sir?

Right.

Sir, again on the JJM projects, what I can understand is you've done execution of INR 142 crores in Q1. And in August, you will be booking INR 150 crores of revenue in the JJM projects, so basically to INR 292 crore. And what could be the execution or what could be the revenue booking we can expect in the balance 8 months or INR 1,000 crores as you said, or it could be higher?

It will be around INR 1,000 crores in total.

This is you're talking about FY '23, INR 1,000 crores in JJM?

FY '23 would be around INR 1,200 crores.

INR 1,200 crores. And what could be the exhibition for AP project now because we have just done INR 150 crore. And you are saying, we couldn't see some pick-up in execution. What could be the exhibition, which we've done?

Which project, please?

Andhra Pradesh canal project.

Yes, Andhra Pradesh canal project, we have done execution of INR 150 crores till now, INR 150 crores. And this financial year, because what happens only if they able to execute only for 6 months, because the remaining 6 months water comes into the canal system. So again, we'll resume the work in the month of January. So we will have another 3 working months in the current financial year.