PNC Infratech Limited (PNCINFRA) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the PNC Infratech Limited earnings conference call hosted by Anand Rathi Share and Stock Brokers. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on the beliefs, opinions and expectations of the company as on date of this call. These statements are not the guarantees of future performance and involves risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. [Operator Instructions] I now hand the conference over to Mr. Prem Khurana from Anand Rathi Share and Stockbrokers. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. On behalf of the Anand Rathi Sharebrokers, I'm pleased to welcome you all on PNC Infratech Limited Q2 FY '24 and H1 FY '24 earnings conference call. We have with us the Managing Director of the company, Mr. Yogesh Jain, along with the senior management team. We will begin with the opening remarks from the management, followed by interactive Q&A session. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Yes. Good afternoon, and season's greetings to everyone. On behalf of PNC Infratech Limited, I extend a very warm welcome to everyone for joining us today on this call. I have with me, Mr. T.R. Rao, Director Infra; and Mr. D.K. Agarwal, CFO; Mr. D.K. Maheshwari, VP Finance; and Strategic Growth Advisers; our investor relations advisers. We have uploaded the financial results and investor presentation on stock exchange as well as company's website for your reference. Initially, I would like to share key updates in the industry with you, followed by key operational development of the company and highlights of the financial performance during quarter 2 of financial year '24 and half -- H1 of financial year '24, post which we will be happy to answer your queries. The target set for highway construction in financial year '24 is higher than financial year '23 as it stands at 13,800 kilometers against 10,331 kilometer constructed in financial year '23. However, highway construction experienced a significant decline during the month of September '23 with only 371 route kilometers completed during the month, essentially due to the active monsoon and persistent challenges in getting the vacant ROW and removal of obstruction timely for uninterrupted construction. Industry expert availability of vacant and long stretches of maximum extent at the very beginning of project execution for uninterrupted construction and progress to meet the targets. When it comes to award of new projects, though, an ambitious target of 12,500 kilometers length of new highway set for the financial year '24 by MoRTH, NHAI and NHIDCL together. With the half of the set target to be made by NHAI, awarding activity has been very subdued during the first half of financial year '24. Many of new projects on both EPC and HAM modes scheduled for bidding during the first half of financial year '24 have been shifted to second half of financial year '24. Even big due dates set for quite a few new projects in FY '23 have also been postponed to November and beyond. Industry expects that the government authorities will resolve land acquisition and other issues quickly, thus making funds available for bidding and construction of proposed new projects to achieve their highway awarding target of 12,500 kilometers before end of the financial year. Given the target, NHAI alone is expected to award new projects worth over INR 1.5 lakh crores before end of current financial year, out of which bids for projects worth over INR 90,000 crores already floating. On brighter side, according to CRISIL Infrastructure yearbook 2023, India infrastructure spending will double to INR 143 lakh crores during the period between '24 and 2030 compared to amount spent during the period 2017 to 2023. Accordingly to the industry sources, the government intends to expedite monetization of operational highways in the coming years in order to garner funds about INR 2 trillion. Similarly, in the next three years, NHAI is expected to construct up to 4,500 kilometers of new highways on an average in a year and monetize these assets through InvIT and TOT model. Now coming to the updates on company. Our company has received provisional completion certificate for four laning of Mitrasen to Kanpur section of NH-91 in the state of Uttar Pradesh on Hybrid Annuity Mode, which is known as Aligarh Kanpur Package V on 4th August 2023, 38 days ahead of schedule and became eligible for early completion bonus. Further, company also received completion certificate for Package 29 of eight lane Delhi-Vadodara access-controlled greenfield alignment expressway executed on EPC Mode under Bharatmala Pariyojana. Company's one of the wholly owned subsidiaries, PNC Kanpur Highways Limited, Concessionaire for Kanpur-Kabrai BOT Toll Project has repaid the term loan in full as such there is no debt outstanding. Company's strong balance sheet and financial prudence resulted constant credit rating upgrades in sustainable manner, which enables company to secure debt at competitive rates. Now moving on the operational and financial performance of the company. The company is currently having 27 BOT-toll, BOT Annuity and HAM assets. Out of these 27 fund-based projects, company has 22 HAM projects with an aggregate bid project cost of INR 28,673 crores. Out of 22 HAM projects, company achieved PCOD and COD for 7 projects, 11 projects are under construction and 4 projects are under development. With regards to equity investment, the cumulative requirement for HAM project is about INR 1,100 crores. Until 30th September 2023, we already infused INR 1,845 crores in HAM projects, and the remaining equity is to be invested over the course of next two to three years. The internal accruals that would be generated over the next two to three years should be adequate to meet the said equity investment requirements. Now moving on to our order book. As of 30th September 2023, our unexecuted order book stands around INR 18,000 crores, which includes EPC value of about INR 4,400 crore of the four new HAM projects for which concession agreements have already been signed. Out of the above total unexecuted order book, highway and expressway contracts contributed around 72%, while water and irrigation projects contribute around 28%. The company has achieved notable progress in rural drinking water projects under the Jal Jeevan Mission during the past two quarters. In the current financial year, until 30th September 2023, company has booked a revenue of INR 818 crores in water segment and overall. Till date company booked a total revenue of INR 1850 crore under this segment. Revenue booked during the quarter ending 30th September '23 in water segment was INR 397 crores. Now I would present the results for the quarter ended September 30, '23 and half yearly of financial year '24. Before discussing financial performance, I would like to share that during half one of financial year '23, the company received an early completion bonus of INR 37.02 crores, which was included in the revenue of H1 of financial year '23. We have moderated the above in key financials of quarter 2 and H1 of financial year '23 to make the financial year performance quarter 2 and H1 of financial year '24 comparable with the corresponding periods. Standalone quarterly results. Revenue of second quarter of financial year '24 is INR 1,693 crores, which is higher by 8% as compared to INR 1,561 crores in second quarter of financial year '23. The EBITDA for the second quarter is INR 228 crore, which is higher by 10% as compared to INR 207 crores in the second quarter of financial year '23. The EBITDA margin for the second quarter of financial year '24 is 13.4%. The profit for the second quarter of financial year '24 is INR 140 crores as compared to INR 131 crores in the second quarter of financial year '23, a growth of 7% on year-to-year basis. The PAT margin for the second quarter of financial year '24 is 8.3%. The standalone revenue for H1 financial year '24 is INR 3,554 crores, which is higher by 8% as compared to INR 3,282 crores in half yearly '23. The standalone EBITDA of half yearly financial year '24 is INR 473 crores, which is higher by 10% as compared to INR 428 crore in H1 financial year '24. The standalone profit for H1 financial year '24 is INR 296 crores as compared to INR 261 crores in the H1 financial year '23. With a growth of 14%, the PAT margin for the H1 financial year '24 is 8.3%. Consol revenue of quarter 2 financial year '24 is INR 1,911 crores as compared to INR 1,795 crores in quarter 2 financial year '23 with a growth of 6%. The consol EBITDA for the second quarter of financial year '24 is INR 400 crores as compared to INR 326 crores in quarter 2 financial year '23 with a growth of 22%. The EBITDA margin for quarter 2 financial year '24 is 20.9%. The consol PAT for quarter 2 financial year '24 is INR 148 crores as compared to INR 132 crores in quarter 2 financial year '23, a growth of 12%. The PAT margin for the second quarter of financial year '24 is 7.7%. The consolidated revenue for H1 financial year '24 is INR 4,003 crores, which is higher 5% as compared to INR 3,811 crores in H1 financial year '23. The consolidated EBITDA for the H1 financial year '24 is INR 836 crores as compared to INR 808 crores with a growth of 4%. EBITDA margin for H1 financial year '24 is 20.9%. The consol profit for H1 financial year '24 is INR 329 crores. The PAT margin for the H1 of financial year '24 is 8.2%. On the stand-alone balance sheet side, as on 30th September '23, our net working cycle is 79 days as compared to 87 days as on 31st March, '23. Our net worth on a stand-alone basis is INR 4,226 crores and on 30th September '23, whereas total standalone debt is INR 395 crores. The total cash and bank balance as on 30th September 2023 is INR 197 crores. We have a net debt of INR 197 crores. This translates to net debt to equity of 0.13x. On a consolidated basis, our net worth is INR 4,612 crores whereas total debt is INR 6,959 crores as on 30th September 2023. The total cash and bank balance including current investment is INR 802 crores. This translate to net debt to equity of 1.47x. With this, we now open the floor for question and answer. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from ICICI Securities.

My first question is, do you still maintain the order inflow guidance for FY '24 given the -- given that the NHAI order has been very muted, and we haven't seen the -- any order inflow from the other segment?

See, guidance what earlier we said, same thing we are maintaining. Guidance for the FY '24 would be 10% to 15% growth over the FY '23. And since as our Managing Director has spelt out just now, as most of the projects, which were supposed to be bid out during the first half of the financial year '24 have been shifted to second half, the reason is best known to NHAI. So we still expect up to INR 10,000 crores new order inflow during the current financial year before end of this -- before 31st March. As huge number of projects are in pipeline and already projects worth more than INR 90,000 crores have been floated with their due dates staggering between 1st November and the 31st December. And further, bids are also expected to be bidded during the fourth quarter of the current financial year. So we still maintain INR 10,000 crores new orders before end of the current financial year.

Are you seeing sir, that the BOT portion is increasing in the tender, which are floated? And my question is, to connect, are you seeing that the BOT share is increasing in the tender? And will you participate in those tenders, sir?

You are talking about BOT toll?

Yes, BOT toll.

No, no. As of now, the tenders which have already been floated by NHAI are HAM as well as the EPC projects. We can say 60% HAM and 40% EPC projects. So far, no BOT toll project has been floated by NHAI.

And my last question is on the non-road order inflows, which are the segments which you're looking at? And are you seeing some activity because at H1, we haven't seen -- we haven't received any order. So which are the activity or which are the segments you are looking at and which are the geographies?

See, on the non-road sector, as you know, we are already doing a project of INR 6,800 crores into rural drinking water supply. And that -- those projects are progressing well. We are looking at the same sector because of the synergy and the experience gained over last two years. Rural drinking water projects, we are looking. Wherever these projects are funded by Government of India under Jal Jeevan Mission. Because there's a slight pause in some of the states, which are going for a poll like Rajasthan, Chhattisgarh, and Madhya Pradesh. So we expect in this region, new projects in the rural drinking water sector. Post election process, so we expect some projects will come up for bidding and we will pursue those opportunities.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Ashish Shah from JM Financial.

Sir, the question is on the total receivables and unbilled on the water, the Jal Jeevan revenue that we have executed. Sir, if you can share what is the total amount of receivables and unbilled from that particular segment?

As regard to receivables, debtor days is 91 days. And EPC side, outstanding is around INR 1,000 crores, and SPV is INR 703 crores. Total debt amount is INR 1,769 crores. Actually, the EPC part is mainly because of the water, about INR 600 crores. And as against that, in the month of October, we have already realized more than INR 300 crores.

Okay. And balance, sir? Out of the INR 1,000 crores receivable from EPC, which you said, INR 600 crores, you said is water. And the balance INR 400 crores would, by and large, be what sir?

That's the EPC project, Delhi-Vadodara around -- and canal. Then MSRDC and small outstanding [Foreign Language] Lucknow Ring Road like that. [Foreign Language] old outstanding [Foreign Language].

[Foreign Language] water, is there any delay in getting the money [Foreign Language]? This is like in line with what the billing cycle should have been?

No, no. Water, we are getting the thing. Only the process is a bit lengthy when compared to highway and other this thing. Because the billing has to be done at each scheme level. Each Gram Panchayat level we have to do is, we have to write a separate bill. So what is the large number of bills are to be generated. And then these bills are to be certified and then paid, so there is a slight delay in the preparation and processing of the bill. Otherwise, money is coming. As Mr. Maheshwari said, as of 30th of September, more than INR 600 crores money was due. And in October itself, we realized more than INR 300 crores. Going forward, in November and all, we'll be able to realize the entire amount. Then further billing will continue, so the process is like that. But as such, there is no problem of funds. There is no problem in getting the payments. Only process is a bit lengthy.

Got it, sir. And what would be your target for water segment in terms of revenue for the financial year? I think, earlier we have talked about the numbers upwards of INR 2,000 crores or somewhere in that range.

Yes, yes, yes. We are maintaining the same number, more than INR 800 crores we already billed because of the monsoon and some flooding of some of the areas where it completely subdued. The water execution will pick up during the second half of the current financial year, so we're still maintaining between -- more than INR 2,000 crores billing in FY '24.

Right. And last one before I get again in the queue. Sir, What is the -- Yogeshji, if you can please throw some light on there in terms of the asset sale process? And are we on target to achieve a part of that process at least by March '24 as Devendra said?

[Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language] asset sale, where are we in that process, and are we on track to deliver at least a part of that asset sale for the commission at least by March '24?

That monetization -- you're talking about monetization. Our monetization is on track. Yes, last time we said we entered into a nonbinding term sheet with one of the prospective buyers who have shown interest and the due diligence process has already been completed. So we are on the further course of action, so we are on the track. We expect -- we want that closure should happen before the end of the financial year and we are working towards the same.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities.

Sir, my question is, in this year, how much would be our bidding in the non-road segments till now?

How much?

See, as I mentioned, as of now, there are no projects on anvil in the non-road segment, particularly water, where we've got the synergy. So we expect this will be floated post-completion of the election process for the four states, which are going on, and before end of the current financial year. And other non-road sector also, we are looking at the opportunities. So like metro rail and railway freight listing, and also in case of any irrigation projects that are coming up. We are looking at. We expect -- see, as we said, we are expecting a new business worth of INR 10,000 crores in the current financial year. So non-road sector may be around 15% to 20% of that we are targeting. So we come to know only once these projects are floated out.

Any other major jobs coming up in UP now and beyond the Ganga Expressways? From the state side, are you seeing any more tenders coming up either in roads or metro or anything, I mean.

No, no major listing. Because these are the core sectors, these are metros and these are the coming roads. Road has been very active. And we are not finding any significant number of projects in other sectors.

With regards to NHAI, sir, I mean, we have seen, I mean, maybe what will be your guesstimate that by -- do you think by December, for what it happens, it happens. Otherwise from Jan onwards as we move into election season, there won't be any major awards happening in the fourth quarter. So whatever happens now, it happens in the next 1.5 months. Is it the right assumption?

No, no. I you see the past trend, major awards happened during the fourth quarter. You can see the trend over the last 5 to 6 years, major awards done to meet the targets during the fourth quarter. And even, as I said, in the third quarter also, now a large number of bids are lined up with the big due dates ranging from first week of November until end of December. So again, new bids are expected in the fourth quarter. Entire process should be over during the next five months. So -- because we also have to meet the target of 12,500 kilometers of new projects. So there'll be...

Sir, once the model code of conduct hit -- so my assumption is that by budget session, maybe by end of January we have the budget. And then after that parliament will be adjourned at the time and then there could be model code of conduct, which may hit in. So do you think that's a risk potentially in terms of this year's awarding coming in, in the fourth quarter?

Yes. See, until end of January, we don't expect model code of conduct will come into this play. Only we are expecting beyond February only. These next 3 months will be -- there will be very active bidding activity. So during 3 months, we are really targeting projects. We identified the opportunities and we are targeting.

Okay. Just last question, sir, on the monetization bid. So maybe, D.K. sir can answer that. In terms of readiness of the monetization process. So we have already -- so if our bidding is completed, so where do we stand in terms of NHAI approvals and lenders NOC? So I want to understand basically that if we announce the deals, so how much can you think the money comes in if all these approvals are in place?

See, typically -- see, we have to take approval from NHAI for the transfer of ownership as more than seven projects are there, the lock-in periods are over. Only it's a six months lock-in period in case of HAM project. So -- and the lenders also, we don't see any major delay in getting the approval. Approval should be there within -- in the range of 3 to 4 months actually, we should able to get.

And these seven projects have how much of equity investment and how much of debt?

We have not worked out. See, we identified the set of projects. We'll bifurcate and we'll share it.

Because I think earlier we were saying it's about INR 1,700 crores to INR 1,800 crores worth of equipment.

Total debt INR 6,900 crores.

I was asking you, [Foreign Language] total equity spent on book value of the equity invested in the projects being evaluated for monetization. So what was that number?

[Foreign Language] Actually, total debt of all 12 projects is around INR 6,900 crores, but it will be decided at the closing date, what will be the outstanding on that day, number one. Secondly, regarding the equity also, has already informed in the last call that in all 12 projects, total equity what we have infused around INR 1,700 crores in all the 12 projects.

Okay. And we are evaluating the monetization of these all 12 projects. But I think Mr. Rao said that seven projects we are looking at, but we confused that one as the seven...

He told seven projects already we achieved the COD, and we don't take much more time to take the NOC from the NHAI because six months already been completed. [Foreign Language] Locking period already completed [Foreign Language].

[Foreign Language] as this period gets come in, you'll get part money and part will come after the completion of the six months, right?

Yes, [Foreign Language]. It depends on closing date. On closing date, yes.

The next question is from the line of Vasudev from Nuvama.

Sir, my first question is, can you share that what is our current progress on the UP Jal Jeevan mission project and the Andhra irrigation project?

As we had mentioned, UP Jal Jeevan, we already completed more than INR 1,800 cores for this thing, work done by 30th of September, then it starts progressing and further also we've done. As of date, more than INR 2,000 crores works are already been completed. And this year, we are expecting a billing over INR 2,000 crores. And the remaining billing will be done in the next year and maybe some residual billing will be left at the end of FY '25. Otherwise, progress -- project is progressing as per the schedule.

Okay, sir. And what about the Andhra irrigation project?

Irrigation project because of the -- it's a canal system, from August onwards, the water is flowing into the canals. So as of now the works are paused. We'll resume once the water is receded in the canal system, maybe next calendar year. We have done around -- INR 178 crores billing we have done.

Okay, okay. And next question is that for the balance equity requirement, which will be infused, can you give the breakup how much would be infused in FY '24 and how much will be in FY '25?

In FY '24, we have already infused INR 592 crores in first half. And in this remaining six months, we require hardly INR 75 crores to INR 100 crores. In FY '25, INR 450 crores. FY '26, INR 430 crores. And total requirement as on date is INR 1,095 crores.

Okay, sir. And sir, lastly, on the CapEx front, so if you can give how much has been done in Q2 and how much do we plan for the full FY '24?

We have given the guidance of around INR 100 crores to INR 120 crores in FY '24. And out of that in first half, we have only taken around INR 27 crores and within INR 100 crores in FY '24, including INR 27 crores.

The next question is from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital.

Sir, just to understand clearly, so INR 10,000 crores order inflow that we are looking at, we said 15% to 20% from the non-road. So if I exclude so maybe INR 8,000 crores, INR 8,500 crores, we are looking in the road. So how one can look at in terms of the EPC and HAM? Why I'm asking is, considering the competition, particularly in the EPC and even in the HAM also in recent one of the projects we have seen, though the value is more than INR 1,500 crores, there is a significant competition. The new players are taking at a much lower cost. So in that sense, trying to understand how we are looking at HAM and EPC. And even if, let's say, we are able to get, are we confident to maintain about 13% to 13.5% EBITDA margin that we normally guide?

Yes. As we mentioned, now NHAI had already floated highway projects worth INR 90,000 crores. If you go by their estimated cost, 2/3 value of these projects are HAM, 1/3 value of these projects are EPC. Typically, more than INR 60,000 crores worth of projects are HAM projects and INR 30,000 crores worth of projects are EPC. So even if you -- as we are pursuing, so we expect in the same ratio of business inflow. So at least 60% to 70% of the -- what we are expecting INR 8,500 crores award will be from HAM and the remaining from the EPC. We understand that the competition is more fierce in case of EPC when compared to HAM projects. And yes, we still endure to maintain 13% to 13.5% EBITDA in spite of the competition and other challenges.

Okay, okay. Got it. So for this year, definitely, we are looking at 10%, 15%. So for -- to achieve that revenue growth, 10%, 15%, we need to do the much better execution. But if I broadly look at, let's say, if we get this INR 10,000 crores and then broadly is a HAM. So in terms of FY '25, how one can look at on the revenue growth front? Should we still able to do 10%, 15% or will it slow down?

See, some clarity -- more clarity will emerge after the Q3 and the 9 months, after completion of 9 months, when we expect some new projects will come up, then more clarity will emerge. But we'll be able to maintain a decent growth in FY '25 also.

Okay. Second, on the, sir, four HAM projects where appointed date is spending. So there are two questions, when the appointed date to come. Last time we talked by March '24, the appointed date to come and that EPC value right now, in the presentation, we mentioned INR 4,400-odd crores versus last quarter, it was around INR 3,750-odd crores. So there is a significant jump in EPC value of these four HAM projects where AD is yet to come. So can you please explain?

Actually earlier, what we have given, that was INR 3,700 crores without GST. And now this is INR 4,400 crores is with 18% of GST. This is the difference only.

So for us, the revenue is without GST. So why we should be looking at without GST number only? Why we are selling the -- including GST number? Because for revenue, we book without GST.

For this purpose, you are okay. But the financial model purpose, what we have given to the bankers and the means of finance, we are taking the debt considering the 18% of GST.

Okay. So those are -- to put it simply, when we say including this, the order book, what we are talking is more INR 7,800-odd crores. So then in that sense it should reduce by that INR 500 crores, INR 600-odd crores. Okay. Got it.

Yes, yes.

Yes. Second, in terms of this monetization just one clarity. Last time we said the entire deal and including the cash flow we received by March, now we are seeing the deal to be completed by March. So the cash to come in 1H of FY '25, is this the way one can understand?

Yes, one can understand like that. But if we're able to close it by at least some first set projects, we are expecting that cash should come -- some part of cash should come in the current financial year. But anyhow, we want to be latest by first quarter of FY '25.

Okay. Sir, I need all the data points whatever is remaining including project-wise order book. So first, on the balance sheet front, mobilization advance, retention money as on September. And then I will ask the project-wise order book.

Retention of September is INR 110 crores. And mobilization advance is INR 539 crores.

Yes. Project-wise order books sir. First is Chakeri-Allahabad, what's the outstanding order book? Last time it was INR 34-odd crores?

About INR 23 crores.

INR 23 crores. Next is Challakere-Hariyur?

INR 175 crores.

INR 175 crores. Then Jagdishpur-Faizabad?

Only INR 37 crores.

INR 37 crores. Aligarh-Kanpur Package 5.

INR 95 crores.

Unnao-Lalganj?

INR 168 crores.

INR 168 crores. Meerut-Najibabad?

INR 125 crores.

INR 125 crores. Delhi-Vadodara Package 31? .

INR 104 crores.

INR 104 crores. Okay. Last time, it was INR 100 crores. Is there increase in the scope of work?

Yes, change in the scope.

Okay. And irrigation project value is how much?

INR 950 crores.

INR 950 crores. Okay. Gaju Village- Devinagar bypass Package 1C?

1C, INR 400 crores.

INR 400 crores, Okay. And Haryana Orbital Rail Corporation project?

INR 770 crores. It has not started so far.

Okay. The same value. Okay, okay. Got it.

The next question is from the line of Deepesh Agarwal from UTI Asset Management Company.

Sir, my first question is, if I see the water segment, the margins are quite healthy. But at the company level margin is in the same threshold of 13%, 13.5%. It seems that road margins are trending downwards. What is the reason for weakness in the road margins and is it transient in nature?

Still road margin are around 13%. In overall water, it was around 15% in the second quarter. And road was 12.8%. On an average 13.45%. So Road margins are within 13%, 13.25% or 12.80% here.

Because sir, what we see on the segmental, the water margins are up -- are higher by road by almost 400 basis points. So as you were highlighting earlier, water margins will normalize as you scale up. So would there be a pressure to the company-level margin? .

There should not be. See, as last time when compared to Q1, water margins now are getting stabilized. But at the same time, overall margins, there is no significant decline. So we should be able to maintain the margins in the road sector also around 13%. So overall margin, maybe water, maybe slightly more than that. But the overall margin will be 13.5%.

On an average, it will be 13.5%.

Yes, yes. 13.5%. Whatever is the very significant reduction in this, it's transit in nature in the road sector. There's nothing -- any concern about that.

Sure, sure. Sir, secondly, can you guide us on your diversification beyond Jal Jeevan mission? Have you built a separate team for bidding for metro and the rail project. And to one of the earlier participant asked the quantum of the projects you have participated beyond Jal Jeevan and water. Can you quantify on this? .

See, we are there. Our team is working on the other sectors also, potential sectors where we find the synergy, as we said, metro rail and other core sectors of projects. With -- these projects, we are pursuing and the dedicated team is working on these opportunities. They're scanning the opportunities and we'll be able to share because this a bit proprietary in nature, we don't want to disclose everything, but the team is working.

Basically, sir, 2, 3 years down the line when JJM project awarding slows down, would you think that we will have one or two more sectors which can offset that?

Yes, yes, we are hoping. We are expecting.

Sure. And sir, lastly, there are a lot of state projects on the flyovers, ring roads, especially in Maharashtra. Would we be also participating in those projects?

Yes, we had already submitted our request for qualification application for major EPC projects by MSRDC for the aggregate value of more than INR 30,000 crores. That includes Pune ring road, Jalna-Nanded Greenfield Expressway and multimodal corridor. Now we are doing these things. We are pursuing the projects that are at a state level, but normally, our preference at the state level would be the EPC. Not any fund-based project like BOT or HAM. At state level always, we look for EPC projects.

The next question is from the line of Jiten Rushi from Axis Capital.

So my first question is on the order inflow guidance you have given INR 10,000 crores and around INR 8,000 crores, INR 8,500 crores for roads and balance on non-roads. So hypothetically, if you miss guidance this year, like last year also, we had received around INR 4,000 crores, INR 4,500 crores of inflows. So what kind of target would you chase for FY '25 to build your revenue growth? As you said, you are expecting growth of 10% to 15% revenue? And NHAI pipeline is assuming INR 1 lakh crores, where you expect INR 8,500 crores, which is like 8% share. It seems to be a tall task. So what kind of hypothetically, we chase in terms of ordering process in FY '25?

See, to maintain the momentum of decent growth, see, order book this year, we are having a, say, INR 10,000 crores new project. And similarly, for the year of FY '25, it would be around INR 12,000 crores. So we'll be pursuing opportunities to secure a new business around INR 12,000 crores in FY '25.

Means INR 12,000 crores, we'll have a mix of 80-20 in terms of roads and non-roads, safe to assume?

Yes, that depends how the opportunities will be unfolded in the non-road sector. We have to see. Because road sector, as NHAI is having plans of awarding more, see this year itself they have a target of 12,500 kilometers. So next year, definitely it will be more. So it will roughly translate into more than INR 2 lakh crores of new projects. So road sector, we are more certain. But in non-road sector, we have to see how the opportunities will be unfolded.

Sir, there are some projects from MoRTH in UP also. Are we targeting those EPC projects? MoRTH projects, the tenders out last month in September of...

Yes. We are bidding. We are bidding for that.

What would be the value, sir? .

We had already submitted some bids.

So what is this value, total bid submitted in UP for these MoRTH projects?

We have submitted seven bids, six HAM and one EPC project. The total estimated value for this is around INR 6,300 crores.

This will get open probably by in a month's time?

Within 15 days I think, this will be open.

15, 20 days, this will be opened.

And sir, the monetization, as you said, seven projects, we have achieved PCOD, so what we see is like we have invested around INR 900 crores of equity and outstanding debt is around INR 4,300 crores. So likely that we can receive at least INR 900 crores or at least 50% of it by end of this year in terms of proceeds? Or you said it will get spillover in Q1 '25.

See, our efforts will be there. The qualified projects, we will close it before end of the current financial year and realize the investment and the remaining projects in the Q1 of FY '25.

Can you give toll revenue breakup for, sir, for all the projects?

Yes. Kanpur highway INR 20 crores. Narela is INR 14 crores -- INR 14.25 crores.

Which one, sir?

Narela. Narela Industrial Estate.

Okay. Narela, okay, INR 14.25 crores.

And Raebareli, INR 32 crores.

That is the annuity project.

MP highway, INR 6 crores -- INR 5.7 crores.

Sorry, INR 9.7 crores?

INR 5.7 crores, yes.

Next question is from the line of Uttam Kumar Srimal from Axis Securities Limited.

Sir, in case of these four projects where we had signed concession agreement, when we are expecting to get AD for all these four projects, HAM?

All the -- for all four projects we are expecting AD before completion of the current financial year, before 31st March 2024.

Okay. Okay. And sir, you spoke about competitive intensity. So how is that competitive intensity there in case of larger projects? Because in case of lower projects there are heavy competitive intensity, but in terms of larger projects, is it same or is it lower than -- compared to lower value project?

Certainly, in the projects of larger size and, that too, in case of the HAM projects where the investment need to be pooled, so the competition will be comparatively lesser when compared to smaller size and EPC projects.

The next question is from the line of Vishal Periwal from IDBI Capital.

Sir, on this revenue guidance of roughly 10% to 15-odd percent. I mean, just wanted to get more granular detail. With a 10% kind of growth and that is one line item. And then second is, like if you do INR 2,000 crores revenue in our water supply projects, then roughly like we have to do a flattish sort of growth in the EPC for the road side of project. But if you look at in the last 2-odd quarters, the revenue in the EPC for the road side, it has been declining anywhere between 10% to 12-odd percent. So what could stabilize this revenue decline in the second half? Any new project that is coming up that will -- if you can clarify that?

Actually, if you see the road projects, the decline in the first half is more optical because last year, we were booking the total revenue from the EPC -- EPE, Eastern Peripheral Expressway under our standalone financial. So that project got over last year during the first this thing. Even if we are at a consolidated level also, we are booking the revenue for the OMT projects of Kanpur highway, Kanpur-Lucknow-Ayodhya. That also got completed and projects vested back to NHAI in November last year. So otherwise, we don't see any decline, significant decline in the road. But also the roads have a typical cycle. Sometimes these projects are at a very peak levels and where the done will be more. Whereas in the current financial year, the seven new projects we started. So during the initial period, because of the low value items like earthwork, subgrade and all, that will be there. And going forward, when we start executing the high-value items of worth, so this road sector also will pick up. There should not be any decline when compared to FY '23.

Okay. And -- but the revenue growth estimate that we are having, it is not dependent upon the AD for the four projects? That is not included in the...

Yes, yes, as of now we are not considering those four new projects any this thing. So if any income is generated by the four new HAM projects that will be slightly -- slight growth in the -- further growth in the revenue.

The next question is from the line of Prem Khurana.

Two questions only. Sir, one was, we've made some announcement suggesting that you're claiming some arbitration claims from NHAI under Vivad Se Vishwas Scheme, so what is the status there? Because there's this time limit, right, wherein, I mean, where you settle it by? But we've not, I mean, had any announcement as to this effect that these have been approved or not. So if you would clarify on the claims that you filed under this Vishwas Se -- I mean with Vivad Se Vishwas Scheme, please?

Yes. See, as we informed to the exchanges, we raised our eligible disputes, our clients under Vivad Se Vishwas in three projects. One is on our parent company, PNC, and two are from our subsidiary companies, concessionaires. All three, we declared and we duly implemented to these exchanges. Though now the last date we've got over just yesterday, 31st October was the last date for filing the disputes. Now they are under process, so we expect the offer things from NHAI rolling out from November onwards. So once those offers are accepted by us, then we'll duly intimate to the exchanges followed by to the industry.

Sure. Sure, sir. And sir, just one bookkeeping question, if you could share the toll number for Bareilly-Almora please?

It is INR 14.25 crores, sir.

Thank you so much. Well, ladies and gentlemen, due to time constraints, that was the last question. I now hand the call over to the management for closing comments.

Thank you, everyone, for your participation in our earnings call. We wish everyone have a safe and happy Diwali as well as a prosperous new year. In case further queries, you may get in touch with these Strategic Growth Advisers, our investor relation advisers, or feel free to get in touch with us. Thank you very much.

Thank you. On behalf of Anand Rathi Share and Stock Brokers, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.

Thank you.