PNE AG ($PNE3)

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the PNE AG Full Year 2025 Results Conference Call. I am Shari, the Chorus Call operator. [Operator Instructions] The conference is being recorded. [Operator Instructions] The conference must not be recorded for publication or broadcast. At this time, it's my pleasure to hand over to Mr. Heiko Wuttke, CEO. Please go ahead.

Good morning, everyone, also from my side. Thank you for joining us today in this conference call regarding the results of the fiscal year 2025. My name is Heiko Wuttke, CEO of PNE AG, and I'm accompanied by Harald Wilbert, CFO. So let me first give you an overview of the presentation and the course of today's webcast on Slide 3 of the presentation. As usual, I will begin with a summary of 2025, followed by an update regarding the operating business. Then I will pass over to Harald for the financials. After that, I will give you a short update on our strategy and our transformation program and conclude the presentation with the outlook for 2026. We will then open the line for questions. As always, our slides can be found on our Investor Relations website. Having said this, I would now like to draw your attention to Slide 5. Ladies and gentlemen, we are pleased to share that we had a successful fiscal year 2025 with high development and sales activity. We've successfully sold projects with a total output of 428 megawatts in 2025, 12 wind farms with a total capacity of 287 megawatts and 1 PV project with 140. [Technical Difficulty]. 2025 was also characterized by a very good progress in our construction activities, especially in Germany and France, where we completed 10 projects with a total capacity of 215 megawatts. We received new permits for wind onshore and PV projects with a total capacity of 1.1 gigawatts in 2025. This is a remarkable figure and a reflection of the steady flow of valuable projects progressing through our pipeline. The expansion of our own IPP portfolio also continued, reaching 497 megawatts as we added 68 megawatts in 2025. Power generation increased despite very weak wind yields in the German onshore wind market, which according to the Anemos Wind and Yield Index 2025 was 12% below the long-term average. Also, our services business continued to grow with good margins. In addition, the first asset management contract for German BESS Park with a capacity of 100 megawatts was signed at the end of 2025, marking a successful entry into this promising market. In financial terms, the year 2025 was successful as well. Our total output grew to EUR 376.4 million, which is another record level in PNE history. Our normalized EBITDA adjusted for one-off items reached EUR 87 million and was, therefore, in line with our original guidance between EUR 70 million and EUR 110 million. From the 2026 financial year onwards, normalized EBITDA will serve as a key financial performance indicator for our forecast as it provides a better and more accurate picture of our operating performance. We will get back to that later. And finally, a dividend of EUR 0.04 per share was proposed. With this, let's move to project pipeline on Slide 7. Our project pipeline was impacted by several effects in 2025. First of all, we have made some changes to the scope of our pipeline. The pipeline numbers now also include projects in the early exploration phase called Phase 0. The change was made to show the full scope of the projects we are working on. To ensure comparability, the previous year's figures have, of course, been adjusted accordingly. Secondly, we have streamlined our project pipeline. This was necessary due to significantly changed market conditions, particularly in the international markets of Canada, Spain and Romania. Streamlining the pipeline is an important part of our strategic focus on profitable markets and projects, which improves our risk profile further. And finally, we have completed the exit from Panama. As a result of those effects, the total project pipeline decreased to 23.8 megawatts compared to the previous year's 27.9 gigawatt. Having said that, our pipeline continued to shift from lower value markets to higher value markets. This is reflected by the fact that while the overall pipeline decreased, the pipeline in our core markets, Germany and France and Poland remained on a high level at 12 gigawatts. Having a look at the subdivisions, wind onshore decreased to 14.6 gigawatts. PV decreased to 7.2 gigawatt peak and wind offshore decreased to 2 gigawatt. In offshore, the 0.5 gigawatt in Latvia were value adjusted as well as of Q4 2025, and it is under review whether the 2 gigawatt in Vietnam will also be adjusted in Q1 2026 after PNE was not considered as investor for the project. Moving on to Slide 8. The streamlining of our project pipeline was also visible in the project pipeline for onshore wind 2025 with 14.6 gigawatts, as I said, coming from 16 gigawatts at the end of 2024. Our home market, Germany, which accounts for more than 40% of our project pipeline remains strong with 6 gigawatts. We sold the wind farms, Sundern and Bebensee with 34 megawatts each to Encavis. And shortly before the end of the year, we also sold a wind farm portfolio, comprising 6 wind farms in various stages of development with a total capacity of 91 megawatts to Qualitas Energy Deutschland GmbH. 6 wind farms amounting to 107 megawatts were completed and put into operation plus 3 wind farms for third parties with 97 megawatts. In addition, 4 wind farms with 63 megawatts were under construction in Germany, plus 5 wind farms with 93 megawatts for third parties. And we received permits here for another 141 megawatts in 2025. With respect to France, we sold the first wind farms, Clermont and Genouillé with 14 megawatts and 11 megawatts and received new permits of 25 megawatts. Regarding other markets, we sold 2 wind farms with a total capacity of 103 megawatts in Panama, where respective milestone payments are possible and completed our planned market exit there. Our project pipeline in South Africa remained stable at 2.3 gigawatts, and we received new permits in Poland and in Turkey of 27 megawatts and 79 megawatts, respectively. Coming to Slide 9, we see that also the PV was impacted by the value adjustment and thus decreased to 7.2 gigawatt peak. But our development activity is continuing to show good progress from projects to the later project phases, resulting in 51% growth of Phase 3 projects to 842 megawatt peak coming from 558 megawatt peak in 2024. Especially in our core market, France, we see a favorable increase of our PV project pipeline by 51% to 538 megawatt peak. And our PV project pipeline in Italy also grew by 23% to 928 megawatt peak. In addition, we received new permits in 2025 in our core markets, Germany and Poland with 124-megawatt peak and 181 megawatt peak as well as in South Africa and Italy with 490-megawatt peak and 50-megawatt peak, respectively. And finally, we sold 1 PV project with 140-megawatt peak in Panama, where respective milestone payments are also possible as part of our market exit. If you look at the expansion of our own power generation portfolio in 2025 on Slide 10, you see that we made good progress here as well. We added 68 megawatts to the IPP portfolio and with that increased the total megawatt in operation to 497 megawatts at the end of 2025. 480 megawatts are coming from wind onshore Germany, 11 megawatts coming from wind onshore France and 6 megawatts coming from the wood-fired combined heat and power plant Silbitz. Despite the comparatively lower wind yields, we produced 822 gigawatts of green energy in 2025, which is an increase of 10% and avoided 620 kilotons of CO2 emissions. The hidden reserves accumulated in our portfolio decreased to EUR 159.3 million compared to EUR 195.3 million by the end of 2024, which is partly because they are gradually recognized over the lifetime of the projects and partly because of project sales. More than 90% of our IPP projects are based on feed-in tariffs for 20 years, leading to an average weighted contracted tenor for the IPP portfolio of more than 15 years. This shows an interesting upside opportunity through short- and medium-term PPAs that are more attractive than the EEG remuneration and about 40% of our IPP portfolio already have PPA. Let me also give you some information about our services business on Slide 11, since it continues to perform well and delivers growing high-margin returns through long-running contracts. So first of all, O&M management and technical inspections continue to grow. The assets under O&M management increased by 250 megawatts to 3.1 gigawatts, and we had a good order intake in Germany and internationally with 75% external customers. As mentioned before, we had a successful market entrance in BESS with the first contract closed for a German BESS park with 100 megawatts at the end of 2025, and we conducted more than 1,000 technical inspections in wind farms. We also had a strong performance in Wind & Sites with more than 500 wind assessments and expert opinions, and we concluded more than 300 LiDAR verifications. In addition, we had a good start of our PPA-as-a-Service business under the new brand, Wattmate, with more than 80 wind and PV PPA projects and a total output of approximately 1.1 gigawatts and a transaction volume of around 1,700 gigawatt hours. And also Bitbloom further grew the assets under monitoring to 5 gigawatts. But perhaps even more important is the higher customer retention rate. Our largest customer prolonged his contract by 3 years. And furthermore, the second largest customer just added 250 megawatts for performance monitoring. You see the Services segment is another exciting segment and integral part of our business. And with this, I would now like to hand over to Harald for the financials.

Thank you, Heiko. And first of all, I also would like to welcome everyone here in this call. Looking at Slide 13, you see that our total output increased by 10% to EUR 376.4 million, which is the highest level in the PNE history, as already mentioned before. This was driven by the successful project sales, the high development activities as well as the results in power generation and our services business. Personnel expenses rose due to an increase in the average number of employees of 39. We saw now more many years -- we saw now for many years, an increase of the number of employees. For the near future, we do not see any further growth of our headcount. In the context of our transformation program, we want to, among other aspects, optimize costs, including overhead, personnel and material costs through many measures. Our EBITDA decreased to EUR 55.3 million compared to EUR 69.0 million in the previous year, especially due to the following onetime effects. First of all, the beforementioned impairments of the project pipeline of EUR 28.1 million, which are included in work in progress and in other operating expenses. Second, the deconsolidation of Panama amounting to minus EUR 3.6 million. So the normalized EBITDA adjusted for the one-off items reached EUR 87.0 million. The decrease in the financial result of minus EUR 6.8 million was mainly driven by higher interest expenses resulting from a higher average volume of project financing. The increase of expenses for taxes in 2025 compared to 2024 is mainly attributable to deferred taxes of EUR 20.3 million compared to only EUR 5.8 million in the previous year. By the way, you may recall that some of last year's figures were slightly different. In 2025, the PNE Group identified that the subsequent measurement of certain financial liabilities arising from low interest loans, especially here the KfW loans in prior fiscal years had not been applied in full compliance with the requirements of IFRS 9. Correcting this error has had an impact of minus EUR 9 million in 2023 and plus EUR 9 million in 2024 on the consolidated net income. The total effect on consolidated net income and equity amounted to only minus EUR 0.1 million in 2024. It is worth noting that this IFRS adjustment to the valuation is not related to operating results and has no impact on liquidity. Looking at the segments on Slide 14, I would like to mention that previous year's figures were adjusted due to changes in the segment reporting. The consolidation now includes all group consolidation as well as general overhead costs that could not be reliably allocated to operational segments. Consolidation was therefore, renamed to corporate functions and consolidation. Having said that, we see growth in all operating segments. Total output of the segment project development increased to EUR 314.7 million compared to EUR 252.7 million in the previous year due to high construction and development activities. Total output of the segment power generation increased to EUR 104.2 million compared to EUR 92.0 million in the previous year despite the lower wind yields mentioned before. Total services increased to EUR 38.0 million compared to EUR 35.4 million in the previous year, driven by a strong order book. EBITDA-wise, the segment Power generation had the highest contribution in 2025 with EUR 73.1 million despite the weaker wind yields. EBITDA from the segment project development increased to EUR 40.8 million, and the Services segment contributed EUR 7.9 million. Balance sheet. On the asset side, we see on Slide 14 that most is allocated to property, plant and equipment as well as inventories, what we see as investment and stable values in recurring cash flows. Inventories decreased as a result of the project sales and impairments. Our cash position fell to EUR 78.1 million due to the investments in project development and our IPP portfolio, but is still on a good level. Equity decreased to EUR 154.1 million, reflecting the negative net income. The equity ratio was 13.0%. However, we continue to aim for an equity ratio of 20% or more in the midterm and already expect a clear improvement in 2026. Adjusted for hidden reserves, the equity ratio was at comfortable 23.4%. In the second quarter 2025, we increased our existing bond by a EUR 10 million step. Liabilities to banks decreased, resulting in a clearly reduced net debt of EUR 731.3 million. In addition, it is worth mentioning that the majority of the bank liabilities are nonrecourse project financing. With that, I would like to hand back to Heiko for the brief update on our strategy and our transformation program as well as for the outlook.

Thank you, Harald. Ladies and gentlemen, this leads me to the strategy and transformation program on Slide 17. The market environment in the renewable energy sector is changing rapidly at present. Interest rates have risen sharply and auction prices have fallen significantly. In addition, the cost of machines and materials have increased. Moreover, the political framework conditions are partly unclear. In our core market, Germany, for example, auctions for wind energy onshore are significantly oversubscribed. As a consequence, it has become more difficult for projects to secure an award and the remuneration for successful bids have decreased. Nevertheless, PNE has been awarded the contract in every tender it has entered, which speaks to its in-depth knowledge of the market. In the new Renewable Energy Sources Act, EEG regime, the awarded bid prices may again develop in the opposite direction. At the same time, in Germany as well as in other parts of Europe, grid access and the associated pace of expansion of renewable energies are increasingly being discussed. We have recognized these challenges and are addressing them and are responding strategically, for example, through value engineering of the entire pipeline, system requirements orientated project development and co-location projects. Last year, we informed you about our transformation program and the numerous measures associated with it. These measures continuously help us focus strategically on our core business and reduce costs to form the base for sustainable and balanced growth. The working title is focus and deliver, meaning building on what we are good at and while evolving to strive in the new environment. So what are we focusing on? We have our strategic focus on the markets and technologies with the highest earnings potential. We streamline our pipeline, rationalize our footprint and closely monitor opportunity markets. We will consolidate the IPP expansion in 2026 before continue the buildup in the midterm. We want to deliver best-in-class project development and focus on system compatibility through storage solutions. But we will also strengthen our internal efficiency and organizational performance via value engineering as well as process optimization and digitalization of corporate functions and operations and strengthen our economic performance, profitability and liquidity by optimizing our overhead efficiency and reducing costs, personnel and OpEx of some EUR 20 million to EUR 30 million. We expect regulatory framework that rewards grid-friendly behavior. That is why we are expanding our offerings to include integrated systemic solutions. Our actions should, therefore, contribute more than ever to grid and system stability. With all this, we are creating a lean, flexible and agile PNE that focuses on its core competencies to be able to deal with fast-moving markets. And we are setting up our business for sustainable and balanced growth. With that in mind, let me move on to the outlook for 2026 on Slide 19. Based on the current plan for the 2026 financial year, we expect the group EBITDA normalized for special items or just normalized EBITDA of between EUR 110 million and EUR 140 million. Normalized EBITDA is adjusted for one-off nonoperating items that are not attributable to the PNE's ordinary operating business activities. For 2026, these one-off effects are expected to amount to approximately EUR 20 million. Regarding our operating business, we, of course, aim to sell a significant number of projects in the financial year 2026, for example, in Germany and Poland. The expansion of our IPP portfolio will be consolidated this year before we further build it up in midterm. According to our stronger focus on selected core markets, exits for Turkey and Canada are targeted for 2026. And as mentioned before, we focus on projects and solutions with high system and grid compatibility. Coming to an end of my presentation, I would like to emphasize again, we are committed to future-proof sustainable growth and value creation. With this, I would like to conclude our presentation and open the call for questions.

[Operator Instructions] The first question comes from the line of Karsten Von Blumenthal, First Berlin Equity Research.

A couple of questions from my side. In your corporate news, you said that you are looking for a more balanced mix between projects and IPP expansion. Could you elaborate on that? So what is your target regarding your own plant portfolio? What does it mean to have a more balanced mix? Is that a 50-50 share? How can we make this clearer?

Yes. Thank you, Karsten, for your question. Well, actually, we -- I think as mentioned throughout last year, we are acting in a flexible manner in order to see that we, at the end of the day, will receive and have a result which has the highest profitability of our business. And that's why we don't give out a certain number of what we want to add at the end of the day of IPP or sales. But what can be made clear, I think, for 2026 is that we concentrate in general on the sales of projects, while not in this year increasing IPP projects, given the circumstances to prepare for more challenging market environments.

All right. That is a very clear answer. So there will be no increase in your IPP portfolio this year according to your current plans. Understood. Okay. Yesterday or the day before the German government in the new climate protection program said that they want to add 12 gigawatts extra for the tenders, which should be built until 2030. Could you elaborate on what this means for the onshore wind market? Have you any insight when the first bid will start? In which tender is this the August tender, the November tender? Perhaps you could elaborate on that point.

Yes, happy to do so. Actually, yes, first of all, I think it's good news that the government decided to increase the auction volume until 2030. And I think it's a reaction of what we see in the market with increasing -- the increasing number of projects being permitted. As far as we understand, these additional 12 gigawatts are meant to fall into the period from 2027 until 2030. So will not be part of this year's auction. But this is not very clear yet because the ministry, neither the -- from the economics, [indiscernible] or the Environment Ministry has made their specific number. What our sources say it very likely is not increasing this year's auction volume. However, there is another initiative, surprisingly coming from Bavaria 5 gigawatts for this year, and this is still under consideration. I think it makes its way into the Bundesrat, first of all, to be considered and then further on goes into the parliament. We will see what will be the outcome. But for us, this definitely is a positive signal to the renewables industry, especially onshore wind industry.

Thanks for clarifying on the 12 gigawatt. My next question is, if I look into the leaked EEG suggestion and into the grid package, German Netzpaket, my feeling is, will it really help to have more gigawatt if on the other hand, the conditions to build onshore wind farms deteriorate because of this redispatch 10 years and many other hurdles that are erected at the moment. So how do you see this EEG leak and the grid package for your company?

Well, I think one has to distinguish between those. On the revision of the EEG, actually, we don't see this and we don't expect that this is a major issue for us. We know, of course, expecting 2-sided CfD, how to handle this from other markets. It's, of course, open if a onetime step out of the EEG and going into a PPA coming back, if this is possible. But I think the major changes are more expected to impact mainly small PV where, yes, we are not active in. So EEG renewal is not really where we are -- where we see issues. You mentioned the grid package. Yes, this is much more critical. and the so-called redispatch forward says that if the projects are in the areas with grid constraints, you might not be reimbursed. And that, of course, could affect certain regions and projects in that region where you, yes, will not be able to be financed and then will be realized. But regarding our projects, because we looked into this already, our projects, we -- when we compare it on a map where our projects are and where grid congestion is, we are not that much affected. This also shows that we are -- have already in the past, looked into, let's say, low or grid connection constraints and moved our project development activities towards that direction. And one, of course, is that we are following up a key mitigation measure of that is colocation too, that we might not be affected that much. But it's a topic we very closely monitor, as you can imagine.

Yes. And thanks for giving me this insight that is very helpful. Not easy from outside to know which projects, how many projects will be affected by this. My next question is regarding your offshore wind business. You very unfortunately were not successful in Vietnam. You now said that in the Latvia project, you have written it down. Given that it is very, very difficult for medium-sized companies to act in this very -- this business for very large companies, usually the offshore wind business. Do you think about leaving this segment altogether?

Yes. Offshore, I think, first of all, it's not just necessarily a question of size depending on the market. And I think we have done a very good job when entering Vietnam and doing the development work. And it was always our focus to, at the end of the day, partner up with another company. Unfortunately, the EOI process was not successful for us there. And -- but we are still considering if and how we can be involved in the further development of the projects, but not as an owner or the owner of the rights there. In general, we are now evaluating how we deal with that situation since we have quite some offshore knowledge in the company, which we might use on the consulting side on one hand. And the other is, of course, that we -- in this moment in time where we said we want to focus on core markets and on profitable markets, we are not looking to go and look for new offshore markets. That's the current situation. And we will -- if we change that, we will inform them accordingly.

All right. Very helpful. In your presentation, you mentioned that you want to reduce costs in OpEx and personnel by EUR 20 million to EUR 30 million. This is quite a high figure. So when do you want to have reached this? And what does this mean for your overall cost basis? Will that fall in coming years? Will it be stable given that you might try to grow somewhat? Could you reflect on that?

Well, I think PNE has in the past grown quite significantly for good reasons, but in different market environments. And looking forward, I think we have to see what that means if at the end of the day, there are more challenges ahead. And while doing this, this you can do geographically, of course, what we do, which has a cost impact as well that we decrease. So exiting markets. But yes, the EUR 20 million to EUR 30 million is a significant figure, which we think is necessary on one hand, which will not happen in a year, but in a bunch of years, looking into the next 3 years actually. And it will mean that the cost base on the OpEx or other OpEx part and the personnel expenses will decrease to bring us -- I think one area I mentioned that we will become a leaner company. And this means in terms of new processes, digitization and then focusing on certain areas. This makes us leaner. And then, of course, we don't need and will have the, let's say, the same level of costs and employees as we had before. So I think it's a consequential way that we do. And I would like to emphasize, we do this quite ahead of the times that we look at. So there's not the pressure yet, but we think we have to react in time much earlier before in order not to be challenged later on.

Yes. That is also my impression that you are before the curve and not behind. That is highly appreciated. In your presentation or in your guidance, you say that you now switch to a normalized EBITDA and that you have EUR 20 million in one-offs to come to the EBITDA, which is then shown. This EUR 20 million in one-offs, could you elaborate on that? What is in there?

Karsten, Harald here. I take over this question, especially for the deconsolidation of our exit markets. That's one thing, and we have this transformation program with cost cuts, for example, for headcount, this could be part of this, too. Yes, these are the 2 main factors for the adjustment of the EBITDA.

Yes, that fits. Last question from my side regarding your PV business. I mean you have reduced your pipeline by revaluing it. Can we expect any PV project being built and commissioned this year?

Yes. Thanks for touching that area. It depends on the markets you look at. We are seeing quite some challenges of the stand-alone PV market in Germany. And there, we are really focusing on the colocation, which -- where we will not see the effect this year. We are, however, solely concentrating on PV in Italy. There, we have been awarded last year in the new tenders that have been published and are now in the brink to realize those projects. It's not very clear if they will, at the end of the day, be commissioned this year, very likely next year, but we will start with the implementation this year. And we see for France, an increasing pipeline and expect this in the next years then to come. So there is no realized projects, but there's still PV activities going on in those markets, plus in markets like Poland and in South Africa. Whilst in South Africa, our business model, as you may know, is slightly different where we mainly sell project rights and at an earlier stage, but those include PV projects as well.

The next question comes from the line of Holger Steffen, SMC Research.

Only a few additional questions from my side. Maybe let us start with your impairments last year, which were forced by the market conditions. What would be a scenario that would necessitate further write-downs? And in which countries do the greatest write-down risk currently remain?

Thanks, Steffen. As we last year really thoroughly looked into the portfolio. We came to the conclusion and with the market conditions accompanying to that, that we have to have projects. However, that means that we don't see currently any further impairments of the projects since it was not a small number of projects. You never know what will happen, of course, in terms of market changes. But as we are downsizing our market footprint and concentrate on the markets where we think the conditions are still stable or promising, we don't expect further impairments.

Okay. So we won't see any impairments for offshore projects or it's a different topic?

I think that you kind of look at that because we mentioned we are considering what's happening in Vietnam, and that's the truth. However, the offshore business, not -- if stepping out, will not have an effect of any impairments to our results.

Maybe I can add, we haven't capitalized any inventories or assets in offshore. So there's nothing to impair.

Okay. That's great. Okay. Let us move on to the balance sheet. The improvement in the equity ratio has not yet been achieved due to the impairments. Are you relying on the 2026 results here to improve or are supplementary measures such as capital increase also being considered?

Yes. Regarding the equity ratio, we expect a rise in this year. This is based of the sale of a lot of projects -- and our EBITDA normalized or EBITDA forecast what is between EUR 90 million and EUR 120 million. Yes, that's the main reason why we see here a better equity ratio equity for 2026.

So you -- we won't see a capital increase?

Will be an agenda item this year, too at the AGM. But the last 5, 6 years, this was not possible to do this, but you never know, that item.

Okay. That would be a possibility if you get the acceptance of the AGM. Okay. My final question.

Yes, we would be, of course, happy to do so. This is why we are a listed company.

Okay. My final question is about the bond that matures in 2027. When will the refinancing of the bond be addressed?

Yes. We already started here the process for the replacement. There are 3 windows we see before the summer break, after the summer break or then winter. So the process has started and takes a while and we have to see. So -- but it's activated.

The next question comes from the line of Guido Hoymann, Metzler.

One question, please. Given the headwinds from the falling tariffs and the high interest rates, all these headwinds, actually, negotiations with wind turbine suppliers are probably also part of your daily business. So the question is, do you feel that they -- these turbine suppliers that they are listening to you? And are they willing to make concessions? And the same question regarding the, say, landlords. I guess that you're also renegotiating leases. Do you experience concessions here?

Thanks, Guido, for that question. Well, of course, we -- in this market environment, we look for all the cost items and especially in wind projects, the turbines have the most impact. And since it was in the past, let's say, quite a good seller's market for them, I think the situation changes now. And yes, we are in negotiations for the projects to come. And we see willingness there to move. I think there, it's important that we, as PNE have in the past, proven and this more now since more than 30 years to be a very reliable customer who, at the end of the day, delivers projects. And so the OEMs concentrate on those developers who are able to deliver, and we are amongst those. So therefore, I'm pretty confident that this would have an impact. And coming to the land leases, yes, that it's a bit more difficult, I would say. However, we are approaching the landlords in Germany on that because at the end of the day, we are all in the same boat. And we have to deliver the best economic projects in order to be successful in the auctions. And therefore, let's say, we have to all work together and maybe not in all, but in many projects, we will see movement there. That's at least our hope, and we have started these activities to change on a moderate level, the land lease fees as well.

[Operator Instructions] There are no more questions at this time. I would now like to turn the conference back over to Heiko Wuttke for the final remarks.

Okay. Thank you. Well, if there are no further questions, we would like to thank you all for your participation in today's webcast. We look forward to welcoming you next time, maybe at our next webcast on the publication of our quarterly statement Q1 2026, which is scheduled for the 13th of May 2026. Have a great day.