poLight ASA (PLT) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, everybody, and welcome to poLight First Quarter Presentation. My name is Øyvind Isaksen, I'm the CEO of poLight. Together with me today is also CFO, Alf Henning Bekkevik, who will go through the financial review and join me for the Q&A session. As normal agenda of today, key events. A quick introduction to poLight for those who are new, update from the market side, as I said, financial review by CFO, outlook statement and at the end, Q&A. Please, when you ask question through the web, leave your contact details so if we are not able to reply, we could get back to you afterwards. Key events. Yes, we had an extremely important design-in award and purchase order for samples received for an augmented reality case, actually display related. We had a follow-up order from Honeywell related to the scan engine EX30. The augmented reality pipeline is very promising, both for the short, medium term related to professional use cases, but also for longer-term consumer applications. Despite a somewhat softer smartphone market due to the challenging situation in China, progress is being made on existing and new PoC and is quite encouraging. Other application areas, such as medical and industrial are maturing. So quickly then, poLight, tunable optics, quite an area of getting a lot of interest. PoLight is one of the players with different applications areas we come back to. Founded in 2005, it has been a long run. Finally, we start to see some good traction from the market and have design wins. We have a strong IP platform, 16 worldwide patent families, 10 pending and 3 registered trademarks. We are very active on the IP side to protect the value of the company. 34 employees, including long-term consultants and increasing. The need we see going forward will mean that we need to build the organization, and that's what we are doing. We are headquartered in Horten outside of Oslo in Norway, offices in Finland, China, and representation in France, U.K., U.S.A., Taiwan, Russia, Korea and Japan. Essence of our technology on the bottom right of that slide, extremely fast and instant focus, fast time response, short time response, can realize very compact solutions, a constant field of view, no pumping when you change focus, and very importantly, many application, very low power consumption. It's basically the TLens doesn't use any power, but it's the ASIC driving the TLens, which is the main contributor to the power consumption being very low. As mentioned initially, already in products. We have smartwatches, both from XUN and Xiaomi. We are in MAXHUB webcam, we are in scan engine EX30. And we also have other obviously, machine vision applications, which are very similar to the kind of barcode scanners. And also the augmented reality design win announced, which is for a world-facing camera that will hopefully be released to market this year. It's kind of encouraging and interesting to see how many verticals, market segments, poLight TLens can have applications. And definitely, the smartphone one and the wearables is today the biggest potential. We are spending a lot of effort in that area, and are still seeing many good opportunity for the company, both for selfie camera but also for starting to see potential for the back camera. So that is basically the biggest volume potential. We do believe that augmented reality step by step will come and also be a major contributor to the consumer market and we have already established a very good position in that area. Then more the industrial application, we are seeing like machine vision, barcode reading, different type of systems. We can see that our references in this segment is step-by-step building a very, very promising pipeline. And then you have kind of other areas. And maybe the -- one of the other areas I would like to emphasize most on is the medical. We do see increasing opportunities there, but also kind of webcam application. We do see that we are in dialogue with different customers, which see the MAXHUB as an interesting reference and we start kind of developing and exploring that market more aggressively. Okay, operation and market review. Smartphone, the add-in TLens design has really opened a lot of doors. There's no doubt about that, and it's definitely the solution and not only for smartphone but also for other applications. We have also started to promote a solution based on add-in TLens, which is more meant for the back cam application. It's still in the early days, but we definitely see good designs, and we do see good interest in that area also. Selfie camera though is definitely the short term, medium term, the most relevant cases for us. But as we said all the time, when first the customers start to use our TLens technology in the selfie camera where we have, I would say, a sweet spot, they will step by step, hopefully, also evolve to the back camera, meaning that a camera -- a smartphone for us could mean multiple TLenses. We can see that now in Asia and specifically in China, is that the situation in China, corona and other things is definitely in a way making the OEMs being a little bit more careful. They have seen a drop in sales which also have meant that they do kind of postponed release of new phone models. They are increasing, in a way, the lifetime of the existing models. So that, I think is fair to say that, that will likely be pushing our opportunities into '23 and onwards the way we see it today. Having said that, things changes quickly, but this is the assessment as of today. POCs, we have both, I would say, existing ones and new ones, it's making a good progress from a technical perspective. We are seeing many of the hurdles which we have been working on has been overcome and been kind of approved during the PoCs. And this is not an easy task. As I mentioned many, many times, the customer demands are extremely tough. And also a significant part of our effort is being dedicated to exactly that, meaning evolution, improvement of the existing products. So very encouraging when it comes to that. Of course, the situation in China is for us not positive because it will push out some potential new releases. But that's what we need to position us for and that gives us also time to sort out whatever issues is to be seen to be left. So all in all, still a very, very, I would say, promising solution we have to the market. There are 5 ongoing PoCs, and there are one planning PoC. Okay, AR. It is an encouraging progress and it continues. As mentioned in the key events, we got a design-in award, meaning design-in is that a customer is planning to develop a product which includes TLens. So it's not a design win, meaning it's not decided that it be released with a TLens, but it is a -- we are part of a product development project. As you can see here, it's quite a significant PO at NOK 3.5 million. So it's a big project. It's a very, I would say, advanced project. Also it's not related to camera, it's related to display. So it's really and we're putting our foot -- the design win we have is basically camera based. But this is basically related to the display side. Meaning we are getting references both on the camera side and the display side. So extremely important in many aspect, positioning for us. I mentioned before, but I will repeat, it's interesting to see the traction we have in this market and the low power consumption, which I emphasized in the beginning, is really something which is also emphasized by the customer. These compact smart glasses, they really, really have a, I will say, a tough power budget, which we need to handle. And there, we are basically outstanding compared to anything else. Also, gravity sensitivity we don't have which is important when you do whatever with what you had. And then, of course, the standards, the speed and the compactness, constant field of view, are basically all kind of, I would say, technical benefits, which are really, really being communicated to us by the customer as being the reason why they want to move with TLens. Of course, we have to deliver. We have to give the solution. We will probably see problems in this area as we have seen in -- challenges we have seen in the smartphone areas. But I think also what we solve for the smartphone cases, which I've just talked about, has a high relevance for whatever, obviously, challenges you will see in an AR implementation. So there is a strong synergy between those 2 market segments. There's no doubt that the initial kind of cases, as you see from the right side of the slide, is mainly, I would say, related to professional use cases, like the health care, like the manufacturing, like education, logistics. So meaning relatively low volumes, but there are also cases we are involved in, which is actually targeting more the consumer market. The consumer market cases we're involved in typically have a release date for the product, in say '24, '25, so it's a relatively long-term project. But we are definitely there. So what we need to do now in the next couple of years is to deliver high-quality solutions for the professional use cases to make sure that we will be included when it evolves to the consumer side. As I said, today, there are 2 use cases, world-facing camera and display solution. We have also seen actually new, I would say, product opportunity for our technology platform identified. So what I'm saying, not only the use of the existing TLens, but also actually we see that based on our technology platform, which is basically kind of 2 glass membrane polymer in between and some kind of activator to move the membrane, is the key technology platform. And we do see new product. We have invited for a Capital Market Day, and we will go a little bit more into the details in these new opportunities that day, 1st of June in Horten. We strongly feel that the AR market, as the smartphone market, will be a very important market for the company. Summing up, quite impressive status. We feel 1 design win, hopefully, we will see that product this year, 5 design-ins, 4 ongoing PoC and 5 other planning PoC. Of the ongoing PoCs, there are 3 related to the consumer product actually which typically have a release date in late '24, '25. Barcode/Industrial, yes, this EX30, which is, in many ways, one-of-the-kind product in the market. We just had a meeting with our customer in Horten, and they are telling that this is really an enabler product for Honeywell, both keeping in, in accounts, but also getting into new accounts with the portfolio. So one-of-a-kind product. And they're getting a lot of good feedback from customer and have a good kind of backlog from EX30 perspective. Still obviously a low type volume. This is the high, high-end scan engine, so many are not taking the -- don't kind of spend that much money on the scan engine, so it is the really high end. But we are getting regular repeat orders, which is always good. The first order is one thing, but the repeat order is really proof of the pudding in the eating. So that's good. And no doubt about it. This is a reference case, which we are using very actively. And one of our other potential customers was saying that, we have to give Honeywell that credit. This is a damn good product. So I think this will be an important platform for us going forward, but it takes time because it's a relatively slow moving market. But step by step, it will be very important for us. We now have 3 design wins in summary, 2 design-ins, 7 PoCs, of which 2 are barcodes, so there are also other industrial applications and 8 are planning, and 4 of those are OEM-related. Healthcare. Yes, this has been classified some in the beginning on the application area as other markets. I feel that the health care over time will probably be lifted up as one of the main areas of interest for our technology. The Kavli activity, which is this mouse imaging of the brain activity, which is used for very important research has definitely raised awareness around our product. And we have a lot of interaction with a lot of institutes, research institute and companies who would like to do something similar with the TLens. And this is short term, not any big money, even though it's significant. We are talking about, say, yes, already say 1.5 million in supplying relatively few lenses. So it's a high-value market for us, definitely. But also, I feel that this is also an example, how new technology, not only as many examples, but this is actually our example of how our technology can contribute to important research having significant implication for human being. So that's also, in a way, as a brand building for the company, very important. We have announced a design-in for some time ago related to a compact surgical device. This is progressing. It is a slow-moving market also like the industrial, but no red flags moving step by step and the customer confirms still that they intend to release this to market this year. And then we have identified some new opportunities, and that will be hopefully kicked off already this year from a PoC perspective at least, but that is a little bit similar as the design-in which was announced, but maybe a little bit more complex solution. So in sum, we have 1 design win, the Kavli. We have 1 design-in on the compact surgical device, and we have 10 ongoing PoCs actually and 3 planning PoCs. So in sum, if you look at -- I already talked through the different verticals. So if you look at the sum, we have 8 design wins now if you look at the bottom left, the numbers in bracket are last quarter. So we have 8 projects, meaning design-ins, which is up from 5. We have completed PoCs like 54 up from 44. We have ongoing PoCs 28 up from 27. And then we have a bit lower planning 19 from 29. So a significant activity and opportunity pipeline, which we are busy with every day to handle in a good way. Alf Henning, would you take the financial review?

Sure. And good morning to you. Deliveries of TLenses and ASICs for commercial and for customer development projects gave NOK 1.5 million in the quarter. That is the same level as the same quarter last year. We had an EBITDA loss of NOK 18.5 million versus NOK 20.2 million first quarter 2021. Having that said, in the first quarter last year, we had approximately NOK 7 million in recognized accrued, social security related to the share options. On the balance sheet, we had cash of NOK 150 million compared with NOK 68 million last year. So on the cash flow. We started the quarter with NOK 158 million. We used NOK 6 million in operating activities compared with last year, that was NOK 11.2 million. We received VAT claim of NOK 11 million in the quarter. We have used NOK 1.4 million in investing activities and NOK 200,000 in financing activities. So at the end of the quarter, we had NOK 150 million in cash deposits. Okay. Thank you.

Thank you, Alf Henning. Okay. One slide left and then you're free to go, outlook. I think it's fair to say that the quarter has definitely confirmed the potential in several market segments, both for current but also for new applications, new products. The activity in the AR space is super promising, strong. First assignment has been achieved, several design-in project and PoC are underway. The AR market will be an important market for the company. We are working extremely hard, focused to get the first smartphone application. There are very good technical progress. I'm not saying that all problems has been seen because as we test, as we go along, as we mature, there are always issues which will be surfacing. We do believe that those are hopefully not a blocker. And so from that perspective, we are really optimistic that we have a solution which is ready to fly. There will always be improvements we can do, and definitely that we're working on every day with our partners. The situation in China is quite stressful, corona being one of the reasons. And we do feel that the commercial opportunities short-term probably will be impacted on that fact. Sales have been dropping quite badly for many of them, and they are kind of pushing lifetime for existing products to reduce spending. So I think it's fair to say, we have talked about design win candidates in '22. I think they will likely slip into '23 and then move on beyond that in repeat orders. So that is, of course, not something we want, but that's reality and nothing we can do with. Important thing to know is that we continue with supporting the PoCs so that we are positioning us for when that market is ready to fly again. The focus going forward will be smartphone definitely, augmented reality, barcode and medical application. Thanks. Alf Henning, will you join me for Q&A?

Okay. Yes.

Okay, yes. The first question, MAXHUB webcam is the best webcam I have ever used. Still no follow-up orders from MAXHUB since release? If not, any thoughts why not?

Yes, good question. And I tend to agree with you. I'm using that daily, that camera, and it is really a good camera. And it is getting a lot of good feedback from the market. For the price they sell it, I think it's super good. No, there was no follow-up order. They did acquire quite a few TLenses, which they in the beginning, which -- because we have kind of this, what we say, minimum order quantity. So they did buy more than a kind of needed initially. So they still have stock. What we're understanding and what we didn't expect this to be a huge volume in the beginning because it is a niche player. But we did and the customer did expect more than -- which has been the case so far. One of the reasons is that it seems to be impacted quite a bit by the restriction or the -- what should I say, the condition between China and U.S.A. So as an example, you cannot buy it on some of the Internet channels like Amazon or whatever it is. And that is definitely hitting them quite hard. So let's see when that is changing, it can pick up again. But having said that, it is a very important case for us and we are actively using that as a reference, of course, to other, I would say, high-volume players in that market segment.

Okay. The following was submitted before the presentation, so please keep questions already answered during the presentation if there are too many. So there's a bunch of questions now. The first one, impressed with your achievement so far, congratulations on the whole poLight team.

Thank you, we'll bring that to all the team.

So next, how is competition progressing? Do you see any new or special challenging competition emerging, any copycats?

No, we haven't seen any copycats. And I think that's -- they're going to have a hard job in doing that, to be honest. If you look at the investments we have been doing in the last, say, 10 years, it's been heavily related to making that product manufacturable with high quality and good yield. So one thing is to understand the product and the concept and how it's structured, but I don't think it's to be able to produce it in a good way. So I think copycat will be difficult, but not impossible, of course. When it comes to competition, I feel that there's nothing really new. There is -- in a way, you can say that the biggest competitor is the incumbent VCM technology still. But when it comes to tunable optics, which we are a part of, it is a different type of liquid lenses, which we have seen before. And then there are some very, very kind of research, early-stage activities, which we should follow. But from a market perspective today, we really don't see any major changes.

Have you encountered increased problems or restructurings due to the horrible Ukraine war?

Not directly, I feel. As we have talked about, we have one very high-quality guy optical lens specialist sitting in Russia, which we are now planning to move to our company in Finland, so he can indirectly, in a way, be impacted. And then I'm sure some of our suppliers will potentially have, I don't know, components or material they get from Ukraine. But we haven't been announced from any of our subsuppliers that this is an issue still. So we get what we need from our subsupplier. So we are not aware of any -- in that part as a value chain. I think that generally-speaking, one of the problems in the world and the economy in the world, and if you look at the China problem, it's probably not uncorrelated to what's happening in that war. So whatever global impact it has, it will also, of course, impact us, but not directly.

Any follow-up orders or new models to come for smartwatches? Or was that just 2 one-off orders?

It certainly doesn't hope that. We have those watches, we do show them on a weekly basis to new potential customers. But I think it is a segment which has been hit hard by the situation and even from the start. Remember, when those watches was released, it was in the -- really in the beginning of the COVID shutdown. As you remember, these watches are kind of kids watches which little bit has a security dimension. Parents would like to keep in contact when the kids are not with parents. But when -- of course, the parents and the kids are sitting in the flat together, the need for such a device has kind of been reduced significantly. And that has, I would say, step by step been a little bit better, but it has definitely caused that the cost awareness for those kind of devices has been really, really stressed. And of course, we are more expensive than say, fixed focus or even VCM solutions in that segment. But we do think that this, again, will normalize, and they will kind of launch high-end version of the smartwatches. I think there will be smartwatches for adults with different applications, which also would like to have a proper camera. So I think, honestly, it's a matter of time before we are in other smartwatches. And in our kind of business plan, smartwatches is a part of it. But in the short term, no.

Can you comment on further TLens improvements, like lens material and piezo parts to improve example, optical properties like refractive index, dynamic range and increased TLN size? Even if currently not, can you tell us about ideas or future improvements?

I think this is a very good question, and this is really the focus for the company for the last, I would say, few years, evolution improvements. And I have to say, those activities which we have been and are exposed to in the smartphone area and other areas, has really been pushing us to improve our product. To be specific, one of the most important improvement we have done is that the TLens now is significantly more robust when it comes to drop test, mechanical robustness. That has been a huge, you wouldn't imagine, but there's been a huge investment to get to where we are today. And there are many in a way, details in that product design and the way it was manufactured, which has significantly improved our robustness. And in a way, if you look at the PoCs result now we have, when we kind of left the quarter, I would say, that it's never been looking so promising when it comes to exactly that topic. And I'm sure we need to continue to improve. But yes, that has been a major improvement. Then transmission through the TLens, of course, ideally it should become a light coming through the camera, should 100% go into the sensor, image sensor. That's obviously ideal and not true. So there is some -- we lose some transition through the TLens. What we have been doing is to work on what you call antireflective coating so that as little as possible is reflected at that interface of the lens, and as much as possible is being transmitted to the sensor. That coating, historically, we have used has now been improved and shows extremely promising results, which will improve significantly the transmission into the sensor. So that's another example. And that there are other obviously, important areas. I would mention 2. One thing is the aperture size. We started with silver, 1.52 millimeter aperture size. We designed a platinum, which is 2.2 aperture size, which still act an engineering samples level. We haven't commercialized that yet. But then we did some smart, then we did a silver premium, which is basically the size of a silver, but has a bigger aperture size, so bigger hole. So aperture increase without minimizing the size of the dice size because bigger dice, higher cost. So if you could come up -- increase the aperture size and without kind of minimizing the dice size penalty, that's definitely something we are working on. So yes, aperture size. Then range. If you look at some of the liquid lenses, they do have better range but at the penalty on quality, I have to say. So we are working on getting a better range. If you look at the medical space, they are actually stacking TLenses, and that obviously give more range, but it also give more height. So that may not be ideal for some of the applications. But then in the piezo technology, piezo is the muscle. Like your eye muscles, we have the piezo. And the piezo is also developing and improving, and there, we think also it become -- over time, the piezo will become stronger which will also enable more range and/or enable a bigger aperture size. So yes, so obviously, those are the, I would say, most important areas. And then you can think about all the activity we have done to come up and make a reference design. Look at the add-in design, which is now done by some of our customers. That is done based on ideas from poLight. So then we said, okay, this is our TLens. We suggest that you integrate TLens in this way instead of that way. So this is -- so we are very actively kind of, what should I say, educating our customer how they can integrate the TLens. Nobody knows TLens better than us. And that's what -- so that's also a significant, I would say, evolution of TLens in the application side is to guide, invent new integration aspects. And then the polymer is going through continuously improvements. Maybe some application needs a different polymer. A polymer is something we have very much control of in-house. Those who would attend the Capital Market Day will be able to see kind of the polymer, how it's produced and touch and feel. So very welcome to that. It will be a few seats available, so if you want to be there face-to-face, you need to be early signing in. So yes, I guess that's at least part of the answer. Many things to do and many opportunities.

Have you considered moving from being a TLens component supplier to model supplier or perhaps the opposite way, supply only TLens material and/or licensing?

Yes, yes, smart question. I would say, yes to both. We do see some cases and some verticals which we feel is very important long term for poLight. We can see that those cases may not be so easy for the OEM, the product owner to get attention from the camera module supplier because they are so much focused on short-term benefits and high volumes. So it could be seen as one way of -- we will talk about also a little bit strategic positioning on Capital Markets Day. But one element of that is basically that we do see on options to move up in the value chain. And then, of course, kind of being able in some niche market to come over with a solution to the customer instead of a problem or only a component. So if we can become more a solution provider and that camera module, as you mentioned, is 1 dimension, but there are others. So yes, that is something which is in our mind. And also when you talk about like huge -- when TLens is producing in millions per whatever time period, high volumes, of course, that will that will potentially constrain in the end, our ability to support. So it's also an option to have for extremely high volume cases to have some partners who also could kind of take kind of, say, wafers, polymer and then do rest themselves. So I think both ends of what you're asking are possible. But what has been the focus for the company now is to make sure that we -- the building brick, which is the TLens as is, is being placed in different verticals show the value, through that we can produce, have happy customers. And then when we have control of that, and we see the success in the different vertical segment, we can be more, I would say, proactive in exploring those dimensions, you mentioned, up value chain, down value chain.

Are there any customer demands for second store supply? And if so, how have you coped or will you cope with them?

Yes, that, of course, is a good topic because nobody, at least especially, you can say, consumer high-volume cases, they do like to see multiple supply sources. And TLens today have one source. Connecting it to your question before, if you say that -- if we are allowing others to manufacture TLens based on our IP, royalty license based on resupplying wafers polymer, of course, we could create, what you can say, a multiple source situation. So -- and that's also why I think -- and our other side of that question is that, I think also this is why it's important to see -- yes, competition is bad in one way, but it's also definitely good exactly for that reason. So today, it is liquid and it's poLight, which is kind of, in a way, closest to that. And they are compatible in some ways and incompatible in other ways, but there are at least tunable optics kind of options you can do.

What do you mean by a very strong position in the AR consumer market?

Now what do I mean? When you look at the technical characteristics of our products and what the AR market customer is asking for, we feel that is an extremely good fit. I mentioned power consumption, compactness, as examples. And those are key, no gravity impact. So it's just that we feel that we are -- I shouldn't be too bullish, but we feel that we are, in a way, a perfect match for what they're asking for. And that's why I'm saying we feel that we have a strong position and need to take that market extremely seriously and do -- as you see from the activity report on the tables, we have a very high activity in this area. And again, it's a high synergy between what we are doing in the smartphone and what's going to happen in the AR space as an example. And whatever problems we solve in the smartphone space will be also important for the AR space. And when we then already know are sorting out all kind of potential issues which will raise also AR consumer already have kind of sold that, then we are in a very strong position. Also, we need to remember that what we are trying to do in the smartphone case is, which we will succeed in sooner or later, what we're trying to do there is extremely difficult. We are competing against an incumbent technology, which all the engineers have been doing and dreaming about and working with for decades. The AR space is different. They don't see really how that is a good fit with that incumbent technology. So it's really 2 different positions we have. We are early in -- in smartphone, we were, you can say, late in because already an existing technology, which they feel good enough, and good enough is very often best. So that's why we feel it's a different situation between those 2 market segments.

Regarding front camera model, are there any specific long-term technical issue in pending design wins? Wondering what the hurdles are, as in hurdles to be overcome?

There are many, many things, but one of the things which is always we have hurdle and which will never, in a way, go away is the robustness of the product. And I remember when I started this industry, they were doing drop tested at around a meter height, and then your product had to survive. Now the demand is quickly up 1.5 meters. I'm sure next year it will be 1.8 meter. So everybody would like to position themselves as having the most robust solution. So even if you drop your phone, your camera will not be killed, but your screen will probably. But -- so it is -- that robustness issue is a topic, which I just mentioned, we feel that we have come a long way, and we have been kind of stamped, I feel, approved by some other players. But I'm sure, as time goes, the demand will increase, and we need to kind of continue to push and be better and better. So that's on that side. Then and on the other side, little bit back to the question about what do we need to improve on or what can we do to develop further? I think the -- this is about aperture size. This is what range is something which will definitely -- we will be pushed to improve both the range and the aperture size. And that's something we -- and that's why we are doing what we are doing. So that optical quality goes to flare transmission. We need to -- these are things which we are working with every week to optimize the polymer, the assembly process to kind of optimize all these parameters. But today, and if you -- when we talk to our customer today, we don't -- we feel that there is and customer feels that there is clear opportunities and they would dare to implement TLens, several of them, it's more like finding the right opportunity when the market allows. So -- but it's a good question, and there's a long answer, but yes.

Okay. Regarding the share split, any reason why this is coming now?

We have been asked this question by existing shareholders and new shareholders why we don't do a split. And we didn't have any good answer to that why not. But we have had so many other things on our plate, so we haven't been, in a way, focusing on that. But -- so there's no specific reason why it didn't came half a year ago. It's just that now we kind of remember that when we did our shareholder meeting -- call for share meeting, and we decided and talk to our advisers and said that let's do a split now since there is -- as you've probably seen, our share is very much followed and interest from smaller shareholders. And hopefully, a split then will be a tool to kind of increase the liquidity in the share. So it doesn't seem to be so, in a way, expensive. So there's no good reason why it's coming now. It's more that we just have to get our head around and do it.

How can TLens perform better than the new PDAF that was introduced now? Is the competition in selfie getting harder?

I wouldn't say that. So PDAF has been there for a while, of course, double PDAF, I'm not so sure what that implied, to be honest. But anyway, it's all about speed, of course. So they are using information from the sensor to know where to position this. I think -- to be honest, I think speed is only one element of why using TLens. This constant field of view, as an example, that you don't see that you're facing going in and out of the screen which is impossible to avoid when you are moving a land stack, that -- so you feel it is more like a smooth focusing. Power consumption, compactness, no moving parts. So I feel -- to be honest, I feel that the speed has over the last years becoming less of importance potentially and more the other attributes we have, which has positioned us.

That was all, actually.

Yes, okay, that's not bad. Okay, thank you, everybody, for joining us for this webcast. Next events, as you can see from the slide, is Annual General Meeting in Horten at 25th of May. Then we will have our ever-first Capital Market Day. Then you will be exposed to other people than me and Alf Henning, like our COO, Marianne Sandal, talking about operational setup, maybe show you some videos of the manufacturing process. You will be meeting VP, John Edwards, who has a long history in this market. He will talk about market opportunities. He's head of European and Korean market. You will meet our dear CTO, who's been with us now for more than 10 years, Pierre Craen, who will talk about our technology platform and give you some insight into how that can evolve to new solutions. So I will do an intro, trying to restate little bit our strategic positioning. So yes, so you're very welcome to join us on 1st of June in Horten, and we will demonstrate product TLens and show you some products which we are already in. So starting at 1:00 on the 1st of June. So and of course, there are limited places, so if you want to be there, you need to send a mail to Alf Henning. And then but of course, we will also do a webcast. So those of you who cannot meet can get the main information. Obviously, the demonstration and to see and feel TLens will only be possible if you visit beautiful Horten. And then we have Q2 '22, 18th of August. I will be 1 year older then, but still a lot of energy. Thanks for listening, and see you next time. Bye.