poLight ASA (PLT) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

[Audio Gap] Grethe Viksaas and I'm Chair of the Board in poLight. I have the pleasure today to welcome you to our Capital Market Day. And Øyvind and the team have prepared quite rich content for us, starting with some presentations. First one half is Zine Bouhamri from Yole, I hope I pronounced his name mostly right, he will give us some insight on the camera market trends, then next, our own VP in North America, Tristan Joo, will talk about our business perspective, how we look at the market and the customer potentials. After a short break, we'll have Pierre obviously delve, give us some insights in the technology platform and roadmap. And finally of the speakers, Marianne Sandal will tell us about how we produce and we organize our operations. Then we will have them all together for a Q&A session, and I bet that there are no questions that cannot be answered. After that, it's time for demos and for the most interested of you, you can have a tour in the lab with Lars Henriksen who is said to be the brain behind the technology [Technical Difficulty]. So I don't know, I don't know. But with that, I wish you a great day, I'm going to give the word to Øyvind Isaksen.

Thank you, Grethe. Okay. Also welcome from me. It's a pleasure to have you all in Skoppum, our headquarters, and also thanks for you joining through the web. We are trying to kind of save costs and do Teams instead of an expensive webcast. So I hope that works. In the management team, I have today our senior management team, CTO, Pierre Craen; Marianne Sandal, COO; Alf Henning Bekkevik, CFO; and also the new CFO, maybe you can stand up and show face and greet everyone here, Rolf Joakim Hines Bredahl is the CFO. You will meet him later today. And as from the Board, as you see, Grethe, and also Marianne Boe, where are you, is also from the Board here today. So we are very well represented. So I will go through a few slides before we let the main speakers enter the scene. It has been a long run. It has been extremely, I wish to say, painful journey. From the early days innovation phase, which was not easy, but relatively short, to go and taking a product idea into a real commercial product, establishing manufacturing has been an extreme experience and costing us a lot of time and money. And then you're going to qualify yourself, prove that you are reliable, prove that you have the performance, which also took a lot of years before anyone dare to take our technology into product. But finally, after many, many iterations and improvements, we got the first design wins in 2020. And then, of course, COVID happened. So if we not had enough problems on this way, that was, of course, adding to the challenge. But since then, we have been adding to our design win slides, I will show later. And many, many have supported us throughout the years. Latest share issue, rights issue, where the existing investors have secured a robust financing for the company, which is super important for our customers, of course. For those who are new, tuneable optics is kind of our topic, and we will really work hard to be the best in costs. 2005, as I mentioned, we are using our technology in many different market segments, and we hold a strong IP platform. We have 46 employees now, increasing a little bit. I think it's up from 9 since Q1 last year. Headquartered at Skoppum but we have people in -- throughout many, many countries like Finland, France, Germany, China, Taiwan, U.S., U.K. and the Philippines, listed since 2018. If you're going to say 4 things about TLens or our technology platform, extremely fast, can be a very compact solution, constant field of view, no briefing and takes a very low power consumption to drive the lens. As I mentioned in the beginning, we are using our technology in different market segments. We have defined 3 market segments, which is key. Consumer represented by smartphone, wearable, accessories, et cetera. It was super important due to there is volume today. We also more and more are focusing on AR/MR which, in a way, you can say, has a bright future and also, I would say, where the innovation basically happens. Whereas in the consumer side and specifically [indiscernible] it's all about cost reduction. You can see in the AR/MR space, you see that a lot of technology which is needed to be developed is needed to be innovative to make that flat. So the innovation side, I would say, is very much stronger in that area. And many -- and also we believe that, that will be a key market in the coming years. But also our technology has application, which is far away from that kind of segment, more low volume, higher price point markets such as industrial, bar-code, machine vision. And we are basically using the same products in those markets. So those are the 3 markets we are primarily focusing on. You can say that it's maybe too widespread. I think we -- when -- if you go back 10 years, it was mainly the consumer we were working on. But as we achieved a more mature product, as we achieved a more mature organization, we took the chance and we had the fact that we have the ability to also address some other market segments, being AR/MR and industrial. I think AR/MR it's important that we are there early. If you take the smartphone case as an example, where we are late. There were AR solution for many, many years before we were able to enter that market. And then, of course, it's much more challenging to come in as challenging the incumbent technology. Whereas in the AR/MR, we are very early. And as you will learn from Tristan Joo is that we are today the only AI solution used in AR/MR devices. So it's a completely different situation. And then, of course, in 10 years, 20 years from now, we also want to have a good and enjoyable time. And that's why we are listing 2 other markets. And that is automotive and health care. We strongly believe that those markets could represent a significant nontrivial business opportunity, but it will not be correct for us to go all in there today. We don't have the resources to do that, but we have that in mind. When we do -- when Pierre defines his road map, we have those markets in mind so that we are compatible when that market is ready. We are quite proud of this, and this tends to be quite crowded. We have 4 design wins in AR/MR as you see in the little top, LLVISION and Magic Leap and the one unnamed customer we have used in the [indiscernible]. Then we have the consumer design wins, smartphone, watches, webcam. Then we have the industrial. There are now 6 companies using us in 12 products. And then we also have this more like scientific research -- brain research activity in -- with Kavli and PhenoSys and more to come. So Tristan will talk more about that. So of course, having this slide to show when we outsell it to other customers, is a big difference from when we were having a road show in 2020 and have no design wins. So it's a huge difference. Now people and companies trust us in a completely different level. We have references. We have shown that we can do it. Marianne just shipped 150,000 units in few weeks to make [indiscernible], which is kind of a proof of that we are reliable and ready to ramp. When it comes to the strategic direction, definitely, the key thing here, on the left side, left box is to have really work hard to achieve growth based on existing products. That is key. That has been key for several years. And this has led us to -- if you go on a year back, we -- I would say the majority of our organization has been focused on that, trying to get new customer, try to get business and less so having a lot of fancy innovation project. The majority of the team even at the CTO team has been involved in achieving that. Focus markets we mentioned, and longer-term market, we also mentioned. Lately, as we see the need for it, we had to -- and also as we were able to break through in all key markets, we have also started doing a lot more investment on the innovation side. Pierre is smiling every day when he comes to the office and he is smiling everyday when he leaves the office at [ Skoppum ]. And this is because we have approved quite an extensive investment in new product and technology and Pierre will tell all about it, at least most about it, more TLenses, new product, TWedge, POS, so this is a new gear, a new era in the company. We have to let R&D be R&D. We have to give Marianne the resources she need to invest in the manufacturing so that we are able to future proof the company. This is super important. But we couldn't afford that 5 years ago, but then we need to prove that we are really able to get into the market with existing products. Now we have proven that. Tristan is going to scale. And now we need to focus on R&D and stand-alone operations. Then we have wet dream, we sure always have a wet dream. And the wet dream we have is that we really would like to become something more. We really like to become something which is more than a component supplier. We really would like to be a solution provider. We would like to offer not our customer only products in a way for problem, but a solution. That could be many things. I'm not going to dwell on that today. It could be that we are a one stop shop for tuneable optics, as we climb up in the value chain and deliver more than a tuneable lens, but also more like a system. This is something we are -- every night, I go to bed, I dream about this, and I look for opportunities. How are we going to achieve this? I don't know yet, but it's still going to be something we are targeting. When it comes to a more operational strategy, I've been managing tech companies for -- since 30 years. And one thing which I have learned is that you have to have the -- you have to think globally, but you have to act globally. Having suitcase when you travel is not enough. You need to have -- in key markets, you need to have local organizations, which is the everyday drinking tea or whatever the customer have asked. That's really our strategy to have exactly that. We also would like to minimize our spending and fixed cost. That's why we decided to be without factory. So we only produce the polymer, which Lars will show you if you want to see it. Less -- other than that, we do basically outsource. So we work with big, strong international companies. STMicro, as an example, is our lens supplier. Tong Hsing in Taiwan/Philippines is our assembly partner. So we work with strong, solid partners. Without them, investing in poLight or capital we need in poLight will be something completely different. When it comes to operation and Marianne will talk more about it, but also same for the operations side where we have assembly activity, where we test our finally produced product, we need to have also specialists in place locally. And that's what Marianne is going to talk about. So with those introduction slides, I will ask Tristan Joo to enter the scene. Sorry. No, it is actually not -- I'm missing. We are -- do we have Zine in.

Zine is -- someone should just switch a little bit there.

Okay. So just let me just --- he is sitting somewhere long away from Norway. So he is Zine. He will be come up in the Teams meeting and we will try to connect him on to that screen so that we can all see him. I cross-fingers, of course, this has been my sleepless nights if this is going to work. Okay, so now we should see Zine.

Hello, can you hear me?

Yes, we can.

Okay, great. Nice to meet you, everyone. So I'm not seeing the audience. So hello to everyone. And let me know if everything looks fine on your end.

Everything is fine. Thank you.

Okay. So I can start whenever you want.

You can go.

Okay. So thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. To introduce myself, I'm Zine Bouhamri, I'm the Activity Manager for imaging and display, I've been with Yole for more than 6 years. And I'm calling in from Tokyo though I'm French, but I have been here for 3 years. And I apologize in advance if sometimes my voice cuts off, I got tonsillitis yesterday, so it's a bit of challenge. So as of today to give you kind of a food for thought and give a perspective from a third party on what's happening in terms of VR, AR, mostly displays and then what's happening in compact camera modules, we're going to be having a very simple outline for today's presentation. So we spend 10 to 12 minutes per topic. First on AR and VR displays and then on the compact camera modules and notably the actuators. So I'm going to talk a little bit about market, but we're going to try to focus also on technology and applications, use cases and so on. And I'll leave time for the Q&A at the end. So first, on AR and VR displays. So I want to start with definitions because we've been hearing about AR, VR, XR, MR and so on and so forth. And it becomes quite confusing sometimes. And sometimes when you discuss with people from the industry, there's quite a confusion and the latest Apple Vision Pro doesn't help on that. So here's our definition. So you have text. Of course, the slides will be fully available to anybody. At the end of the day, what we call VR is when you are totally cut off from the outside. If you are seeing light from outside, but -- which is detected by a camera, like, for example, the Apple Vision Pro, the Meta Quest and so on, we still call that VR. Sometimes people call that AR, but we would call that video see-through because you are using cameras, visible cameras. AR in the 100% sense, although what it should be called is when you have a blend of light, that's reflected by the physical world and display giving you some additional light. And so it's very important to make the difference between those because at the end of the day, the technological choices that you have to make are completely different, both for the optics and for the displays. So we're not going to talk too much about the optics here unless you want some more details later on. But at the end of the day, you have pancake optics. So let's take regular lenses very briefly. And for AR, it's mostly going to be wave guides, so on -- where you're going to have a nanograting on glass or sometimes with polymer films and so on and so forth. And in terms of displays, we are talking on one hand, it would be like macro displays, like from 0.7 to 2.5 inches. So that's what you have, for example, in the Apple Vision Pro with the OLED-on-silicon. And for AR, it's going to be micro displays. So LCoS, OLED-on-silicon, microLED or MEMS-based solutions. And so the micro display players that we have in AR and VR, actually, depending on the technology. One technology can only be useful for AR. One can only be used for VR. And interestingly, be it for OLED-on-silicon or for microLED, what we can self immersive technologies on silicon, they can address both applications. So here you have a few examples, and we'll get into more details about what are the requirements for using this or that. That being said, I will now separate VR discussion with AR discussion. To give you an idea on the VR headset market. So remember, back in the day, Mark Zuckerberg acquired Oculus for $2 billion and the dream was that everybody would be using VR for social and so on and so forth. Actually, it didn't go as planned. It still stayed a niche market. So video gamers and a couple of user experiences on top of the professional use cases, of course, like training, like medical healing and so on and so forth. And with the Apple Vision Pro, they kind of tried to legitimate their use case and they are trying to seduce more consumer and now they're trying to use this new word of spacial computing kind of a buzzword as we call it to try and recreate a need for the market. Other players are going to follow. We are going to see a couple of example but we are not talking about hundreds of millions of units. As you have seen, it's very expensive. It's too bulky. The use cases are not very super clear. So we are only anticipating up to 18 to 20 million units for a year by the end of the century. Now what are the use cases? So the niche is kind of the full immersion like the Playstation VR or all these gaming applications that you can have to try to expand their market. Sony is providing by this summer an adapter for PC based gamers to be able to use their headsets because actually the attach rates that they have is not big and it's much lower than what they had on the first version of the PS VR back in 2016. The real potential use cases in the future could be with the video see-through application. So you would have the virtual displays kind of we say that display redundancy would be like you are working on your desktop and you have a virtual second or third screen. You could you be using that to watch games and so on and so forth. And if you have enough computation, then you can image what had been promised by Microsoft with the first HoloLens, here it would be video see-through and not really optical see-through like real AR. But to provide experience that cannot be done with a flat display and it could potentially be a clearer app. So who's working on that? So sure you have new major products and the big moves. So of course, Meta and Apple, they are the really well known. But we are seeing more and more partnerships, including OEMs, display makers and computing companies. To give you some examples here. Samsung, Google and Qualcomm partnering together, Samsung acquiring eMagin, Sony and Siemens announcing also a collaboration. And on the other hand, for the creation of this new ecosystem, there's a lot of bubbling happening within China around the OLED and silicon story. So I won't get into details. I know it's written in next slide, but actually, I removed the slide because it would be a bit off topic regarding what you are working on. And so for the display technologies comparison, so you have the 4 main different ones here. So we say that LCD plus MiniLED is going to replace LCD. At the end of the day, not getting into too many details to spend more time on AR, but the OLED-on-silicon is more for the high end because if you look at the Vision Pro, average display is at $300. The entry level for the LCD and the mid level would be for MiniLED. And this would be the penetration rate forecast that we anticipate. So OLED losing shares, is dominating, but it's losing against MiniLED and OLED-on-silicon is gaining more and more shares with the high-end products like the Vision Pro. Now if we come to AR, optically see-through, optical see-through AR. We are very far from the promises that we had 10 years ago, 5 years ago, about reaching the tens of millions of units by 2025. It was on the road maps. So I will not lie. In 2018, when I started studying the topic, it was on the road maps of every OEM. But actually, the technology is not growing as fast in terms of improvement as they would like. But on top of that, the main issue is around the bill of material is you want to be able to address the consumer market. So we went through kind of what people in the industry call the AR winter, where things stagnated or even decreased. But now there seems to be some momentum coming up again. And it's mostly linked to AI because one of the biggest issue is that you can have the best technology in the world, if you are not able to provide a use case, then nobody is going to acquire your headsets. And up until now, when I was asking to people, if I were to offer you an IR pair of glasses, what would you use them for. And very often, it was kind of hard to get an answer from people. Now with the AI trying to enable new use cases, it can become the AR like and trying to make us go out of the AR winter. And so the use cases could be for foreign speakers, deaf people, et cetera, et cetera. And Meta is extremely involved in that for both VR experiences and AR experiences. And so depending on the use case that you're going to adapt, it's going to construct an application continuum. So if you are a monocular, so the image only on one eye, you could imagine that with a very small field of view, you would only get some information like a smart watch and so on and so forth. Of course, you will need to be a bit more than that. By adding a larger field of view and RGB capabilities because this is one of the issues that we have today, we will come back to that later, you can get into the dream of spatial computing with real optical see-through AR. And so at the end of the day, if I were to sum up that, it would be about increasing the immersion. So in terms of penetration rates that we anticipate. So MicroLED gaining some share, it's going to be a battle between LCoS and MicroLED, we believe, at the end of the day, and then to comment a bit on what you may be looking at for MEMS-based solutions, the issue we have with MEMS-based solutions like LBS, for example, it's not really DMD because DMD is too expensive, too big pixels and so on, but with LBS or laser beam scanning, the issue is that we've been hearing about it for a long time, we still haven't seen the prototype yet and not even a product, though we have those with LCoS, we have those with MicroLED. And they kind of had a window of opportunity waiting for MicroLED to be able to reach the market, but it feels like they missed it. If you look at the story of the LaSAR Alliance driven by ST, they were very, very vocal about the LBS is going to be the future and so on and so forth. But very recently, they renamed their alliance, and they are not talking so much about the LBS solution. So of course, some players are still working on that in Europe naturally but it's yet to see a prototype around the release. And so if we look at the display and optics technology positioning for VR, for AR, I'll sum it up for VR, OLED is losing its share and OLED-on-silicon is trying to get into the high end. Of course, pancake optics have become the kind of optics that you can find everywhere. For AR, it's a bit more difficult. As I was saying, it's going to be a battle between LCoS and MicroLED. MEMS trying to get in with LBS and OLED-on-silicon only for a niche. They are great for VR, they're not great for AR for many reasons. And for AR, we believe it's mostly going to be about diffractive optical elements, a little bit about holographic elements and refractive elements. But as I said, it was not the topic of today. So the takeaway would be the clear definitions of VR and AR. So all the lights you see in VR is coming from the display, in AR, it's coming from real life physically and the display. And so if we try to position between market growth and market share, the different technologies for both VR and AR, this is what we could map. That being said, that concludes the first part. I'm 12 minutes, 13, okay, and I will switch to a status around the compact camera modules. So for that, just to -- I'm sure it's clear, but I'd like to insist on the definition. So this is camera module. And so everything I'm showing you is coming from our reports, mostly we worked a bit for this presentation. So when we follow the camera module market, we follow, of course, the CMOS image sensor, the actuators, the lens sets and the assembly. And so how you see this is complex and getting even more complex. And we follow that in every kind of application. So here, you can see how we market that in mobile. So computing would be the tablets and the laptops, the consumer markets, AR headsets, action cameras and so on. Automotive, for ADAS and so on, endoscopy for medical, matrix code readers and that's it. We are here talking about compact camera modules, not really the camera modules that you're using on the DSLRs and so on and so forth. So to give you an idea of what this represents, this is the forecast by market. So obviously, mobile and consumer is the biggest one. But if you look at the growth, most of the growth is coming from automotive markets because, as you know, the smartphone market is kind of flat nowadays. And we are not really increasing the average number of cameras per phone that much as we were doing a few years ago because now most of the innovation is coming from working around the optics, working around the actuators and working around the AI computing processors that are dedicated to photography. So that's why I will talk a little bit about the automotive market also afterwards. So as you can see, the global market is expected to be $47 billion by 2028. And this is by market. I also want to show it by element. So obviously, the image sensor is almost half of it. But as you can see, the biggest growth is coming from -- in terms of compound growth, is coming from the actuator at 7%. This is where we are seeing lots of innovations and tentative approaches to try and make things different or better. So as I was saying, the market dynamics for smartphones is not that great. And as I was saying, the average number of cameras is not increasing as much as we thought. To give you an example, we were anticipating -- 4 years ago, we were anticipating by 2024 that the flagships would be using 5 different cameras on the rear, which did not happen because, as I was saying, the innovation is coming more from the optics, the actuators and the computing that is around it. Forecast, due to the increasing levels of autonomy, we are seeing more and more cameras being added to -- cameras added to cars. So the average number of cameras today is around 2.7 and we expect that to be 4.7, 4.9 by 2030, 2032. So it's an average number, obviously. So the high-end vehicles are expected to have a system that has almost 18 cameras. And so I can understand that there could be a debate around, yes, but what's the difference with the LiDAR-based solutions or the radar-based solutions. But if you look at the autonomy levels, actually to reach Level 3, you cannot only go with one solution. Nowadays, if you look at the robo trucks, for example, in China, they are using all 3. And most of the OEMs are going to tell you that they need the 3 different technological choices because they actually complement each other for many reasons. Depending on the weather, one is going to be better than the other, depending on the angular resolution that you need. Again, it's going to be 1 or the other and so on and so forth. And on top of that, due to all the security reasons that we need in automotive, the redundancy is important. So it's not really a question of are you sure we are going to have more cameras and so on and so forth. It's actually a fact. So if you look at the mapping of the ecosystem, what's happening. So there is more and more insulating. Obviously, the most well-known would be in the camera module assembly, the lens makers are trying to gain more and more share in the assembly. It's all about being vertical and trying to maximize the value that you can get out of the value chain because as you see, many players, it's a very -- I forgot the word, let's say, exploded supply chain with many players fighting for bits and pieces. And you'll see after what it represents in terms of numbers, to give you an example, yes, so it's the camera module manufacturing market shares. So obviously, LG Innotek, due to its business in mobile is getting the lion's share. But behind, you see that it's very, very exploded, many players having 10 or less percent. So you can also see that some players have taken a big hit between '21 and '22. It is mostly linked to mobile slowing down and the automotive activity that had been strong in '21, and that was less strong in '22 due to inventory reasons. And I also just put the one for the actuators. And so you can see here that Alps is the leader, but only by 4 points versus Mitsumi and 5, 6 versus Semco and TDK and so on. So many different actuator players also involved in that. And to finish just on the technology side. So to improve on compact camera modules, what do we see? So there are different approaches. Either you work on the image sensor, either you work on the optics and the actuators. And so here, we try to map the -- it could bring significant progress or a status quo or maybe something that would be worse. Obviously, so far, the cost is the most important part, especially considering the market, the bigger markets that we talked about, so the consumer market, mobile and consumer and the automotive markets. And so on the image sensor, the triple stack that we've started to see in the latest Sony sensor is improving the image quality a lot. But it's more expensive, obviously. You can go with a curved sensor solution, so that would allow to reduce the number of lenses that you would need. So to make a more compact camera module, maybe less expensive, maybe easier on the assembly and so on and so forth. There's obviously the liquid lens, tunable polymer, et cetera, that you are very familiar with. There's a lot of hype that started with the Metalenses. So passive meta-surfaces. I have a slide about that afterwards because it's actually kind of the new word and the new research that is being shouted at for a couple of years, and we will probably see the first product in consumer smartphone using a metalens this year. Hybrid lenses, obviously, so it's either moving from plastic to glass for mobile or the reverse one moving from glass to plastic in automotive because that's one of the reasons why it's so expensive in automotive is that you have to use lots of glass due to thermal reasons and the image quality reasons and so on and so forth. And the SMA actuator has been making a lot of noise since last year, and it's already been in several smartphones as of today, and we are seeing it gain more and more shares. So just a word on meta-surfaces. So actually, you take a surface and you nano pattern it and that is why it can do things with light that you would only be able -- that you could only do by using several lenses in a stack. So the idea is to try and replace all the lens stack with only one meta surface that you put directly on the sensor to be able to reduce the camera module volume and maybe in the future, try to add some new features. We could talk about it in more detail. I would -- if you are interested in this topic, I would invite you to reach us in late September because with the team, we are currently working on a dedicated report on meta-surfaces and the applications for displays and for imaging and sensing. And to finish, it's just the technology trend, trying to go from the regular VCM to other emerging technologies, so with the different functions, so autofocus and image stabilization. And is it done on a wafer level or not? Is it mass produced or not? Who are the players? Is there some technology differentiation trying to happen through the SMAs? And the coloring is to show if it's available, mature or a potential in the future. Of course, this is not exhaustive list of both technologies and companies. And that gives you a mapping of who's doing what and what would be the competition and so on and so forth. That being said, I believe it's been a bit more than 25 minutes. I don't know Øyvind, if we can take questions or not, but I'm free if you want to have questions from the audience. Thank you for listening.

So thank you so much. Is there any question from the audience? Is there any question to Zine's presentation from the audience? Of course, a lot of information, a lot of data. I think it needs to be digested offline, but -- so Zine, thank you so much for being with us. And then I will send you a mail so that we can agree how we can potentially use or forward your question offline.

Yes, of course. So I hope it was useful to you. I wish you a great afternoon. And until next time, have a great day.

Thanks a lot. Okay, super. That is a lot of content to absorb. Should we move to Tristan. I'll tell you a story. Tristan, he was my customer. Do you remember, Tristan, you were a customer?

Yes.

He was having a U.S. activity for Ofilm. And he is single-handed responsible for us being in [ Madrid ].

And more coming.

And more coming. So Tristan is very experienced manager and seasoned business guy, and will now explain you why poLight is so great.

Hello. My name, again is, Tristan Joo. I'm VP responsible for North America Business Development. I also have Corporate Marketing responsibility here at poLight, based this California. I have just around 29 years of deep technology career history with the most recent 20 years focused on advanced imaging, optical sensing and including tunable optics. In terms of technical marketing and general management functions, a brief history. I'm very pleased to update you on today on poLight's key focused market segments, as well as key customer opportunities that are very exciting for our future and today as Øyvind referenced during this first quarter 2024 earnings presentation yesterday. PoLight's global business development and sales team consists of these 6 members. With Redfar Yang, our China General Manager, and Jack Chang, VP of Business Development in Taiwan, leading our Greater China business; and Jon Edwards, who actually presented that 2 years ago at Capital Markets Day, who is VP of Business Development, leading our EMEA and Asia business based out of U.K., with Rüdiger Hartung, our newest Business Development Manager, based in Germany, who just joined us earlier this year; and myself, leading North America Business Development sales with Spencer Mailes, our Senior Technical Sales and Business Development Manager, joining us earlier last year, reporting to me to upscale the North America business further. So I have -- before I build into the needs of our disappointing vision, let me just outline my presentation structure. I've structured this presentation into 5 key focused market segments with the first 3 being very strategically important key focus market areas, and the next, last 2 being opportunistic but very long-term bets that we're -- as Øyvind has addressed earlier. And with the first slide, Mixed Glass segment, addressing the market segment, key trends of the market -- each of the markets. And then the second slide, covering the specific customer opportunities with our key strategy and tactics, nicely summarized, to give you added confidence in our market positioning and the future business growth potential in each of the markets. So our first focus market segment is augmented and mixed reality, with enterprise markets being well established already and consumer markets actively developing with initial devices expected to launch into the market in year 2026. And we're -- this is where we have opportunities, specifically in AR smart glasses, consumer-grade AR smart glasses and mixed reality head-mounted displays that employ video test engines, as Zine outlined to you during his presentation. From the latest market resource companies projections, the AR/MR-VST devices shipment is expected to range between 21 million units by 2028, as reported by Yole Intelligence's recent April report, here on the right, and out to even more than 35 million units as projected by IDC in their recent March report, as you can see in the lower right, by year 2028, for which we see clear potential for designing in multiple OLED products in each of these devices. Serious aid, Apple's Vision Pro launch with tolling in Spatial Computing capabilities is giving even more add confidence to the consumer market potential and developer sentiments with U.S. and Chinese OEMs heavily in the state to lead the product development and market deployments worldwide. Now when I joined poLight few years ago, I brought my deep expertise in AR/MR market. I am very focused on since 2017, so 7-year plus, and what we have helped poLight's differentiated positioning in this market, including closing our very first design wins with magically 2 and exciting announcements as we released [ percentage share ]. I'm very excited to report that our TLens AF technology has been dominant -- dominating the initial AF camera market for AR/MR, as Øyvind mentioned earlier, as evidenced by our continuing and increasing 4 enterprise OEM customer design wins and with multiple consumer -- underlying consumer OEM POCs and design-in activities in active progress, advancing us to reuse and device engagements, with the first exciting potential production revenue materializing in 2026 onwards. With key TLens use cases, as noted here, as I said here, including things like fast focus image capture of any environment regardless of the situation and the other conditions, while replicating the true human eye experience, maintaining fast and constant through the view focusing, which is mission critical, if you think about this reality video-casting camera because these -- our cameras are literally replacing our eyes. You like and experience best on it. So it has to be really, really better and replicating that true TLens. So we are very good at there. As well as in focused barcode and AI-based use cases, like object recognition, I'm sure you asked us a lot of questions around this, at any distances or any context with very unique capabilities like all in focus that we uniquely are able to deliver and experience that really us help differentiate that user experience any further. And lastly, but not least, focus tuning a blazer projection AR micro displays, it's also a unique TLens use case. Now in terms of -- lastly, TLens competition in this AR/MR camera space, mixed focus being adopted in the initial smart glasses in mixed reality video pass-through channels, devices that you have been carrying all along is what we end up displacing and augmenting, not at all the VCMs and liquid lens competitors that you always hear about. When it comes to AF, we're the only game in town as proven by so many customer disposals. Also in AR/MR our TWedge Wobulator technology results show stopping issues, facing the micro display industry, mainly resolution versus brightness versus side trade-off -- size trade-offs. So if you increase the resolution in your projector, size becomes too large, their pixel becomes too small, the brightness goes down. So it's been a show-stopping issue. With this, our TWedge Wobulator technology, being the only viable pixel shifting technology with no real competition identified so far. We're literally the only game in town, and we're inviting our competitors to challenge us. We have multiple customer POC projects making super good progress with TWedge Wobulator development advancing nicely with Pierre, our CTO [indiscernible]. TWedge leverages the theme ultra small, faster speed, and lowest power consumption advantages and proven architecture and assembly techniques from TLens, which really is a nice combination that enables our TWedge nicely and enables these unique use cases like the enhancing the perceived resolution of the displays into human eyes by 4x or greater or moving ultra motion blur when you're moving around in micro space or for correcting for dead pixels or nonuniform cell problems, flagging the micro display issues. As this animation here on the right side shows a TWedge wobulator has a pixel shifting improves the perceived micro display resolution by 4x in this case, after pixel shifting perceived 4x resolution improvement. As you can see on the example of green images on the lower left corner, the poLight slogan global, which is VGA resolution image on the lower left side, with TWedge turned off, when TWedge is turned on, it comes 4x higher resolution on the right side, which is 1280x960, almost true HD, full HD when TWedge is turned on, making things smooth, nicely visible. In AR/MR market, we have announced 4 major customer design wins to date, as you know, magic leap too, with these issued in North America, which I led. LLVision's Pro out of China, which refer [ AR/MR ], and an unnamed customer high-end customer in Europe. Our regional strategy for AR/MR is to keep winning these top-tier OEMs for TLens in smart glasses and mixed reality videos CES, SPIE AR, AWE. Moving these -- you'll see here a long growing list of POCs into design-ins of actual projects and to neutralize our proven references across the AR/MR ecosystem that we're partnering with every single design wins into new season advancing to more number of top consumer OEMs and partners to drive TLens in select, not all, select TWedge wobulator POCs, the top consumer order customers and partners. Our key tactics in this AR/MR market is to advance our TWedge wobulator development to the next step, led by Pierre, our CTO, and their team, and continue to strengthen our position and road map in a more simplified than standardized AR-enabled cameras using TLens AF technology, more simplified, and Pierre will go over more details about that with you. And this was in the presentation. And we really are focused in deepening and improving our AR/MR domain expertise that we are leading to acquire growth in more -- and with personally in need of -- more and more and also posting our local customer organizations to improve our local customer support efforts across all these product units. Lastly, we will continue to tend and exhibit at major trade shows for -- related to AR and MR like CS, SPIE, SID Display Week, which I just participated back in May, and AWE augmented world expo, the industry's largest SR events to further strengthen our positioning in market -- in this market and grow our business pipeline. Now with that long intro to AR/MR market, our second key focus market is consumer segment that includes all these device categories: Smartphone, Smart Home, IoT connected devices and wearables. With the Smartphone market, continuing to stagnate at around 1.2 billion units per year, growing only about 3.5% compound annual growth rate until 2028, you can see the growth rate finally stagnating as per as IDCs report. But it is still by far the largest market opportunity for poLight. With selfie AF cameras being increasingly adopted and deployed in high-end Android phones following the Apple iPhone 14 onwards, readopting it, let me emphasize, readopting it, they used everything [indiscernible] developed it, which is really fueling kind of this reentry and reintroduction of selfie cameras with AF across Android ecosystem. And with rear cameras, continuing to require larger sensor format and larger aperture with the multi-camera trend continuing on with stellar photo and periscope zoom cams. So that's an important trend we have to keep in mind in smartphones. And we will introduce to [indiscernible]. Smart home and IoT connected devices including web conferencing devices are adding more cameras with AF enable behind devices. And with wearables, wearables what we mean by that is non AR smart glasses, smart watches, sports or action cams, and earbuds. The shipment -- the unit shipment of which are already at approximately testing at the 440 million units per year, not a shabby market opportunity. We cannot give more this wearable smart home. Lastly, as you'll consistently hear throughout my presentation, AI enablement using cameras and voice fusion is a common trend across this market consumer segment as well as other segments that really happen. Any consumer, we are exploring higher volume TLens opportunities with -- that has been, of course smartphones, proving challenging in the short term due to lower customer priority and lower budgets in this opportunity to present in selfie AF camera space and increasing sensor format and increasing field view requirements that necessitate our TLens add in architecture, which Pierre will go over in his presentation, or addressing the rare multi-camera trends. But we will never give up on this -- pursuing this target smartphone opportunity, which is by far the largest still, by adopting new road maps and standardizing and simplifying the add-in lens and camera module, actually that Pierre will be addressing, and really developing the right road map to address the longer term. In the -- for smart home and connected IoT device space, we're actively engaging and exploring tips with top OEMs worldwide, not just in one particular region, this is why we got rid of that the regional focus there, in this segment, with many of these POC projects nicely ongoing, also scope the wearable segment and IoT connected devices. Now riding on our existing design win customers like MEIZU, our very first smartphone customer design win, which we are super proud of, and we can -- we are convinced that we can replicate this with the right road map focus, and when we assume we are ready. We also have our leading smartwatch design wins through big brands like Xiaomi and XUN, smart watches and CDPDAS' MAXHUB, our webcam design win across these consumer segments. And in this segment, our key strategy starting with smartphones is to persistently explore simplified TLens adding lens and more standardized lower-cost ready-to-go camera module to address facility AF camera needs in the near to near term, while securing a larger aperture, larger form factor, our aperture, TLens' road map for the rear multi-camera trend for the long term, which are, again, CTO, Pierre, will be addressing in his presentation. And to grow a strong sustainable pipeline for more consumer OEM customers projects globally regardless of here, meaning that any and every consumer, OEM customers, we will go after, doesn't matter what the sizes because volumes all there. Our key tactics in this consumer space are to secure and promote new standardizing and TLens add-on procurement modules and simplified TLens add-in immense offerings while utilizing our TLens add-in reference design capabilities. PRS very talented optical lens design, typically with in-house now, to leverage that -- to address the advanced -- camera advancing customer needs like larger sensor format and field view trends and to strengthen our -- especially the business development side of the capability as well as, of course, the global customer support organizations across this field. Now moving on to our third key focus market, which is industrial. Mainly for us, industrial barcode, scanners and machine vision cameras, which offers a pretty steady growth with the TAM, total available market, reaching almost $7.8 billion in 2029 on 5 years' time, with high-performing cameras and scanners being needed for the continuing industry for that 0 trend. While Edge AI and automation trend keeps on driving the increasing demand for camera-based machine vision and advanced sensing applications. So one thing very unique about this before I go in that -- the Edge AI and automation trend that is really driving this need again underscores the unique trend that we're reading across all of the market segments that AI and the -- we can explore your questions further during the Q&A is actually necessitating technology like TLens more than displacing our technology. And we will explain that to you in the Q&A. But the one thing that is very unique about this industrial market is that it's highly fragmented with more than 10 camera and scan engine makers buying for market share. And then lastly, what's so attractive about this particular market is that its customer -- product life cycle is fairly well. So once we design then, we stay there for many, many years. And it's in less than the cost sensitive than, let's say, high-volume consumers. So it's very good revenue opportunity, more opportunities. And in terms of -- in the -- we have continued success in the industrial barcode scanners and -- so let's change in. And we are gaining good traction with this industry in vision cameras. Leveraging the same, strong key management competitive advantages in speed, size, cost -- particularly in cost in this space because we're competing against the wins guys. And unique differentiations that our technology offerings like only focused image capture capabilities. As Øyvind mentioned during this Q1 2024 presentation yesterday, we have 6 OEM customers already using TLens in their 11 commercially available products to date, an increase. Our competitors, again, are liquid lens, guys on the high-end side, and some sort of -- limited some from PCA on the lower end process. Our key strategy in industrial is to break into more and more top-tier oriented customers, specifically in high-volume portable handheld barcode scanners, not the sophisticated super expensive machine digital term systems, but those portable handhelds, which our competitive advantages are valued the most, across the board, it makes sense. And to secure system-level solutions to bridge the key technology gaps that we are looking at. Tactically speaking, we will continue to explore human fits into some select machine vision projects, again, a more selected or simplified architectures at top industrial OEM customers and to strengthen our customer relationships. We do need to improve on our deepening of our customer relationships in this space, as I see. And local customer support capabilities while attending and exhibiting these major industrial trade shows at NRF, which is a National Retail Federation in the U.S. Optics Fair out of China and Vision campuses, Germany. Our fourth theme represented an opportunistic market for long term as a relation is health care, which is strategically still important longer term. Given the global medical camera market that they see in kind of purely I show you a diagram, but it's $6.4 billion total addressable market by year 2023 -- 2033 and a 7.5% growth, which is quite a nice market size, which is sizable and expanding in terms of -- especially in this whole top-tier segment, we'd like to highlight is the neuroscientific scopes that require really tiny. If you think about these mid-scores the career [indiscernible] monitoring in books require tiny form factor yet high multiple power range to really zoom in the TLens. These are -- we are extending this -- we're seeing expanded ones consistently from many universities and labs and lately expanding into commercial audience. However, the endoscopic camera space are staying at low resolution 2 megapixel 10 LED HD focus, which is dominated, quite frankly, by OmniVision's 2 camera, camera tube with -- however gradual shift over the 4k 5-megapixel cameras that eventually will require AF. Only -- but however, in only a few years. So we -- this is why we have the best long term in the same socket. Since our first university customer design win was announced with CameraCube, due for Mini2P miniscope back in 2022, we've been expanding the Mini2P projects across -- in the right universities and labs and now recently into new commercial OEM customers, offering a new turnkey solutions, that's just a small camera step up there, but the turnkey solution like that, it's a system that puts into ending. The offering -- so to expand -- this will allow us to expand commercial distribution across broader commercial players out there enabled by our recent announcements that we've made with partners like -- distribution partners like PhenoSys/LabMaker, and you will see in the next few slides, ThorLabs to scale up this business in Mini2P neuroscientific miniscope front. We'll continue to explore this whole -- longer-term opportunity with the endoscopic cameras as we keep track of the camera requirements heading into high resolution and to secure and promote with key lens and camera module partners in the space to jointly develop and work on promoting fully embedded opportunities. Our fifth and the last key segment that is opportunistic, but as we pointed out, very important nontrivial volume opportunity long term, is Automotive. With in-cabin DMS, drive monitoring system, and OMS, occupancy monitoring system, camera market, growing to a staggering $1.2 billion by year -- in 5 years in 2029, at an explosive compound annual growth rate of 44.7% as reported by Yole in the April report. Thanks to -- this is all driven by, again, the AI-enabled autonomous and ADAS driving mandate across European regions [indiscernible] To enable more camera adoption -- intelligent camera adoption rate in future cars. Automotive is quite attractive to us, in particular, poLight due to higher margin and pricing structure and longer type life cycles that once we're getting design wins, similar to industrial, we are design wins for many, many years. Although it's still at high stages, we see nonmechanical fast focusing, robust RGDs plus near IR. This means visible and infrared. Dual-mode AF camera technology being needed with TLens as one of solutions that are actively being considered as attractive with some POC activities with some lead automotive OEMs customers and partners, enabled by our joint development embers, for TLens camera, demonstrates. However, again revising and requalifying the TLens products, led by Pierre's team, thus, it is required for meeting industry qualification standards like AECQ-100 and other automotive clients standards longer term. Now in order to maximize our market reach and revenue potential in near term, poLight has also been establishing distribution channel with dedicated distributors like EDOM, who is covering for us in Taiwan and China and South Korea. And our new distributor, Micron, out of Japan who is covering the Japan region. We've also recently announced that Thorlabs has launched their TLens-based laser projection optical case products with all flavors of our TLens product portfolio as well as we didn't -- at least Thorlabs and PhenoSys that I presented earlier, those 2 distribution partners who is developing and distributing Mini2P based miniscope turnkey solutions across the commercially viable OEM end customers. So that's really exciting. Now we are moving from universities and labs over to commercial OEMs, particularly deployments using Thorlabs diagnosis turnkey solutions. In addition, we're in active discussions with some major global semiconductor distribution channel partners. We cannot name them yet, potentially to be announced in the second half of this year. Lastly, poLight will continue to tend and exhibit at key industry trade shows to further boost our branding, our leadership position in tunable optics and identify new customers and partners more effectively. We have very successfully completed our first-ever trade show exhibition at SPIE Photonics West 2024 back in January in San Francisco, which Pierre and I was there. Here's a picture of our actual booth, very first industry trade show booth at the [ trade show ], and what will be -- what we do see as some of the TLens camera modules and samples introduced there, which I will be actually personally guiding you through after the event right outside the auditorium is a replica of the sample with all of our key customer devices and our latest products and [indiscernible]. I'm happy to demonstrate to you. Now at the -- next speaking of SPI, next year's SPI event will be AR/VR/MR 2025, at [indiscernible] and that's making a strong delivery statement that we are serious and on point with a leadership position in AR/MR. So we'll be doing that in January of next year. Very excited to do this and taking more momentum in this whole AR/MR space. Next, we will exhibit at the industry's largest AR/VR trade show or by Augmented World Expo, AWE USA 2024 coming up in 2 weeks. And between in June 18 through June 20 in Longbridge, California, which I will be interested in meeting again, and to demonstrate our [indiscernible] in the AR/MR space. And that CIOE, 2024 or OPIE, 2025 in China, which RevPAR [indiscernible] and Vision 2024 in Germany, I mentioned a couple of times. And these are -- and of course, we'll have our very first nice private meeting suite for the first time at CES 2025 in January, which we will be really well positioned at CES or that is across the board, very important to have a trade show to address many of our [indiscernible]. Team poLight now, as you can see, is well prepared with all the necessary trade show [ of glue ] materials, infrastructure, product samples, you got to use some demo kits, all kitted and nice, coupled with customer devices that use our technology for exhibiting at these trade shows and others. As our CEO has just reported yesterday, at our first quarter earnings presentation, team poLight is very prominent boast a promising pipeline of customer POCs and production projects across all of our key focus segments market sense that I went over today almost it's summarized here -- summarized in this table. And with growing numbers consistently in POCs as compared to the previous quarter, quarter-on-quarter. And it is my -- and my colleagues, I've been in business development and sales role to make sure that we lead all of these POCs to actual production project design wins that convert them into design wins. I'm very, very confident at scaling our business for the future. In summary, I'm very, very excited to again summarize we're quite outstanding today that we are very well positioned with our product offering to all of the key focus market areas that we are going after today. With -- that provide -- that these market segments provide significant for growing demands with AI enablements and necessitating more and more of AI cameras [indiscernible]. In particular, TLens products and solutions for cameras and TWedge wobulator technology for AR micro displays they are unquestionably the best position in the AR market typically with unique differentiations and potential consumer of production revenues materializing in 2026 [ onwards ]. To better address the future customer needs, poLight is also securing new product road map, system-level solutions, local support organizations and this development capabilities worldwide, which will further strengthen our brand and position in all of our targets. Lastly, a healthy growing pipeline of customer, PoCs and production project opportunities across these top target focus market areas that I went over with today will allow us to build the momentum to scale our revenue and fuel a very sustainable business growth opportunity.

[indiscernible], thanks a lot. We will -- of course, we use 10 minutes more than you're supposed to do, but that's correct. It's fine. We have time. We break for the coffee or water, and we will be back again, let me see. See we're going to start again with our CTO at quarter to 3. Okay. [Break]

Okay. Hope you enjoyed the break. We're going to continue. And next on the agenda is technology platform and roadmap with our CTO, Pierre Craen. He is from Belgium. He is committing to Norway and Asia and U.S. all over the world. Pierre has been with us for soon 14 years. He is instrumental in what we have achieved and what we're going to achieve. Pierre has a background in his -- how many degrees do you have? You have a lot of master of physics and optics, very strong background. He is actually coming from tunable optics. He was working with competitors. But finally, he understood what is the right tunable optics. So with those words, Pierre, I will let you give your speech.

Thank you, Øyvind, and thanks for [indiscernible] for introducing [indiscernible]. So and thanks, [ Christian ], for the fantastic opportunity that we have in front of us. R&D team is, of course, very dedicated to make that happen. And before diving into the technology and then what we're working on [indiscernible] in the future, I would like to just remind you what is all about the platform and the tunable optics technology and platform of poLight. Then I will give you a quick update on the IP status and strategy. And then we'll dive a little bit more into the AF and the TLens product and roadmap for activities of what we do for simplifying, enhancing, improving our readiness to address those different markets. And we will talk about bigger TLens because that's radically important to develop those solutions also for -- for the market that we are investing to finish with that new functionality that we have developed. We're not totally new truck, but at least we have put a nice name on it, which is a TWedge and the first product that will most likely come as a TWedge into wobulator that's modern device, which is improving the resolution of the microdisplay, which seems to have big momentum from the customer and the market to finish with a quick summary of where we believe we are. So just as a reminder, for the new people, which are on board. What is the -- what are -- what is the technology platform of poLight. So it's conceptually relatively simple. It's a piece of [indiscernible] optical material, which is sandwiched between 2 optical components, relatively high-quality optical component. Sometimes you could form that one of the optical component, that's the top part of that animation that's creating the focusing the contracting of the actuators is bending the membrane, the optical component and creating focusing, thanks to the polymer following the shape or you can also introduce some tip tilt and motion on the back, the lower side of the ADI emission there to create a wedge, which will definitely win. And with those type of application, we can create the wobulator that we will discuss a little bit more in detail later on. So today, we have the TLens autofocus. We have the TWedge, which could be -- it's a new family of product, I feel. The first one will be the wobulator and the micro display resolution improvement, but it would also be further developed to do optical image stabilization in different manners. It could also be combined as on the animation that will come as, I would say, a third step when the OIS and the wobulator will have been proven to work and put on the market. We could potentially also offer a solution where we combine focusing and image stabilization or [indiscernible]. Another thing that we started to contemplate also, but it's only paperwork and nothing more than that, but we are, of course, working on that, is the cylindrical lens and tunable cylindrical lens that could also potentially have some application in AR/VR market for correcting basically some higher weaknesses that most of us as in a way, we have some astigmatism very often, especially when we're getting older. And then we will continue again to push for solution that could enable and make optical zoom, which I still feel is a rare dream for most of the -- especially the mobile community, they would like to have a tunable optical zoom which is a challenge. But anyway, we are moving towards that. We are pushing to try to offer a solution for that. And all those onset are using activators most today thin film piezo that we want and we need to continue to improve for better performance. But we are also addressing different type of architecture. We'll see that later in the slides, where we use bulk piezo, potentially also other type of actuators. We like to stay with piezo because they are fantastic activators. They are low per consumption, they are fast. And we know them quite a lot -- and so far, all the performance of the TLens are basically really coming from the piezo materials, from the piezo team in particular. And we will continue to develop that -- those optical materials, [indiscernible] optical material that needs specific tuning for different type of applications. So that's what we have as a key platform to work and develop new functionality and new [indiscernible]. So in terms of IP, I will probably repeat what we have said already. But for us, it's relatively important. We have 22 patent worldwide granted patent family, used to be 17 in 2022. So you see that we are pushing, we are improving, we are creating more IP. We are still 7 more pending application, meaning that they are on their way to be or patented or -- and we have 3 to 5 application or in preparation. So about 10 new application, which will come relatively soon, which will take time to become granted of course, you need to -- the way we have taken is taking a year or 2 or 3 depending a little bit. And we have added one registered trademark, which is the TWedge compared to last quarter. So on the right side of the image, you see the repartition of the patent over the world. So -- and then those 22 family are around probably more than 160 granted patents. So we believe that we are relatively well protected even the very early -- very -- the earliest pattern that we have applied even before I joined, are still not yet complete value, but the most important one, the one which are really supporting the current products are potentially still valid for 8 years. And of course, we have continued to apply for new and more patents. So we believe that we are relatively well protected. The strategy is the same as 2 years ago. We continue to push as much as we can to secure the freedom to operate for poLight, of course, but for our customers also, super important. So there are 3 ways to do that. The first 1 is you have seen that we continue to apply for new IP. I would say, on a monthly basis, we have discussion, we have talks with the team. to see and to understand what we could patent. We are working with a law firm also to support that effort because it's a lot of work. Then the trade secrets are something that we are very important. It's also very important to keep in mind. Everything which is very detailed oriented and related to processes, we would like to keep it as a trade secret because if you make an ID, you'll disclose everything. So that's the kind of deal that we do. When you when we get an IP and granted, you need to open as much as you can to help the others to potentially reproduce even though they don't have the right to reproduce, but still open for what you do. And that's why [indiscernible] is also quite a nice way to preserve and protect poLight. And then we go through all those activities and participation to the conference and we do defensive application. So meaning that we are publishing information that we believe are not super important from the IP strategic point of view for poLight, but still are important to secure the freedom to operate for our customers, for example. So this is exactly the same strategy that we have been using a couple of years ago already and for many years at the end of the day. So that's the status of the IP. So still growing. So now we can talk about the TLens and what are we doing for helping and supporting the future business. So a quick reminder again, TLens, that was the top part of the first animation. The TLens is, again, polymers sandwiched between 2 components, optical components. And the top 1 is [indiscernible] -- we should call it once, but it's a silicon from on which we have attached a glass membrane and on top of which all the layers, electrodes and the piezo has been deposited. And by a planned voltage, you're contracting and bending the membrane, which is shaping the polymer and creating the focus. So this is the TLens. And in the last years, we have, of course, created that add-in design reference design, which is in [ Midsonso ], so we should be quite proud of that. That was the first add-in design, which has reached the market. So we have designed around the TLens. We have also generate those fat lens solution for the Mini2P solution, which basically has been able to get more optical power by stacking like if you put resistance in series, you can create more focusing range. And also to support those activities. We had to apply another anti-reflective protein because those devices are not working the visible spectrum, but more like in the infrared spectrum. And we have developed processes to apply coatings on the TLens also to address those type of niche market applications, so we can deposit enhanced antireflective posing for visible, but also near infrared, for far infrared, for near infrared and visible. So we have a multiple solution there that are important sometimes for some application. Then the curve back window, this is something that we have proven a long time ago. This is still on the -- on the key big technology to be used in the future. But so far, I will explain you why we don't push too much on that, but that could be, of course, the next step. And we have also proven that we could implement filtering function in the TLens because the back window is a flat window, so we can put more optical functionality there. That's ready to go also. It's really we just need to wait for the opportunity and wait for a customer interested in that kind of solution. So the future, of course, is the big useful aperture that we talked about and that Christian mentioned. And again, we need to work on all those activators and material for this future. So a slide that I've been using 2 years ago, same thing. Nothing has changed. At that time, we're still claiming that add-on will be there for some time, and it was really important to continue to push and sell those products. But -- we see more and more that adding TLens is becoming super important. It is important. It has been important to get the first design win for the mobile, but it's also important for AR/VR/MR. So that we are really now focusing on that because the first experience that we have had is the [indiscernible] phone is demonstrated that -- there are not many, many companies that can implement [ identities ] TLens solution. So we need to continue to -- because it's, I would say, not complex, but it's new. And the TLens is coming with its own, not limitation, but requiring to make a good integration. So what we are now trying to really do based on that experience is to simplify solution around the TLens, which will enable easier use, faster adaptation by many other lens maker and more and more lens makers. So we're going to focus on that in the coming -- for this year and the coming year, I believe. And as soon as that will be more widely accepted, then we're going to be able to implement the next level of, I would say, advanced integration where we can put -- we start to put a curved back window in the TLens. Curved back window will come with more sensitivity around the [indiscernible] pain, for example. And then we will also move to the next step after the step of implementing the back curve window which is coming with new freedom for making the design more compact, better quality. It's one more degree of freedom to optimize the lens system. And then move to the next level where the ultimate goal that we hopefully -- we will achieve one day to have a real lens, tunable lens with a lot of optical power with tunable, so that would be the really super top solution that we would like to push foward. But that will take time. So the first short-term focus that we have been and we're working currently on is to come with a solution to integrate the existing product, the TLens silver and silver premium in a more easier manner on the adding clearance concept. So we have -- we're working on 3 different concepts of package, plastic package around the TLens which are -- 2 of them are based on LDS, so laser direct structuring. That process is becoming more and more mature, still not fully, fully up to high volume scale, but still it's coming. And we believe that, that technology is enabling us to have a very versatile solution. So you can take that TLens package and put it in the system and connect it from anywhere. So bottom top side, which is sometimes today a delicate issue because it's limiting the degree of freedom because the connection of the TLens needs to come from the top with somehow here. But with that package, we could do any, and I will show you some examples how to use that. And also, we have put very high accuracy on the size and the dimension of that plastic parts. To be as close as possible as the accuracy of a plastic lens that they are stacking to make the full lens stack. So that's super important. Even though the TLens doesn't need to be the concentricity and the alignment of the TLens itself doesn't need to be super accurate, but still, it's good to have those victim to make the things easy, so that people will integrate the TLens as a plastic lens in their lens [indiscernible]. The last one is the fourth, the third one, sorry, of the solution with the metal sheet. This is more like a proof-of-concept that we want to keep moving in case of the LDS doesn't come with the right performance and the right cost, even though we believe that it will come. But it's just kind of pure R&D activities that we still want to investigate. The 2 differences between the 2 package there is that 1 has been -- you don't see that by very easily, but 1 has been optimized in terms of -- in plain dimension, XY, so very small diameter as small as possible, but a little bit thicker because we need to put some material to make the plastic frame rigid business. The middle one is only -- it's basically a superthin solution, the thinnest solution that you can go, but the consequence is that the package is a little bit wider and bigger. So depending on the design that we need to fit in one or the other will fit. So that's why we're trying to also propose a solution which will -- which will make things easier in a way depending on the lens. So -- thanks to the team again here, we have continued to design lens, add-in TLens lens for different type of application. And that's one of the examples here. We have even done the optomechanical design of the complete lens to validate the concept and to share with some customers, which are not super, I would say, aggressive enough to go in and we use those reference designs to convince them that indeed it's possible. We have done tolerance analysis. We have done the mechanical, optomechanical design. And we started the discussion around that, and we provide all those information to that. So they have the lens design, GMAX file, the cat file everything and they can start from there, then we save a lot of time. And here, you see that on the left side, you have a super compact, small nose camera, which could fit to a mobile or AR/VR, and you see that here, the connection to the TLens is coming from the top. You see the package in the middle here, that's the TLens here. And the connection is made from the top. Another lens design that we have been working on for the back cam, which is a wide field of view, relatively big sensor is that the TLens is just sitting in between the 2 lens stack, you have 2 lens at the front and 4 lens at the back. And here, you see that the connection to the TLens is made from the site. Different designs, those designs very often are requiring some active alignment because they are so demanding in terms of megapixel and resolution that very often the top lens or the first group on top of the TLens needs to be actively aligned with respect to the bottom lenses. And that's something that we are also working with -- with partner to try to simplify as much as possible. The small package that we have designed, we believe can do that. So that's another example of another type of lens stack, where you see on the left side here, you see the group 1 and the Group 2 and the TLens is sitting in between. Here, the group 1 is sitting directly on the Group 2 because the thickness between the Group 1 and the Group 2 needs to be super accurate. And even though the package will come with high accuracy, it's already too much and it could affect the performance of the lens at the end. And the other design is a design, where we basically sit in Group 1 on the package, which is sitting on Group 2. And then that solution will, of course, suffer, but again, only if it makes sense, sitting on the package and increasing the tolerance and potentially affecting a little bit of performance. But if it's a lower megapixel camera, that is potential solution also. Again, those designs can be used for mobile, AR/VR and wearables. So another example of the type of work that we do, we're moving and we're trying to dig into the details of how we're going to -- they're going to do the integration of lens stack with the TLens. So basically, we take the barrel and then you shuffle in the first lenses, then you put the TLens and then you stack all the lens at the back, and that's something which will enable and make easier adoption of those adding contacts to the lens maker. Of course, that needs to be compatible with the performance of the lens, but for some applications like industrial automotive, where megapixel are a bit lower, that's -- those solutions are potentially applicable. Another type of example that we do, it's again another lens designs for super wide field of view is a system configuration, where we put the lens after assembling the lens stack. So basically, the lens maker will assemble the lens, the way they do, regular. They like to do that because then they're controlling their quality and when the lens is good and inspect, then they can integrate and slide in the TLens from the side. And again, there, you use a small package, some feature to make electrical connection. And you just slide that in and you're supposed to have an auto focus lens, which is really tough quality because the TLens will be tested. We're testing all 100% of the lens in the package. So since we'll come out with rapidly good even high performance. And that could be a solution, where the compactness of the camera, the size of the camera doesn't need to be super small and the resolution is not in the 50 megapixel. Okay. So that's the type of activity and model and reference design that we're developing to support the deployment of the existing product. When it comes to the product itself, so we have the silver and the silver premium. We have demonstrated the TLens Platinum in sample level available and we're just waiting for customer request and opportunity here. Ready to start as soon as there is a big demand that will enable to address even bigger and lower number for cameras. Then we have the even bigger [ opportunity ] TLens, which we call Diamond TLens, which we have decided today to develop on a completely different architecture, and I will describe it a little bit more later on, but it's again the same concept, membranes, polymer in between and then we have that little TLens macro that I like a lot because that will be based on the same MEMS architecture, which also is basically I will not say ready to go, but which we are waiting for a real demand. And we start to feel and see some demand for consumer market, where they want to really miniaturize the camera as much as possible, and that's those multi-lens could be a solution for those because then VCNs will have hard time to fit in the box also. So medical, telecom, AR/MR, also wearables that's definitely a potential target for that. So then about the big use for aperture. So today, we have started the project this year. Different concepts, I'm only describing 1 so far, which is using the polymer Sandridge between 2 membrane, and we have an activator, which is compressing the polymer, which is slightly different than what we have today with the TLens. And of course, when we do that, we need to be very careful on developing the right joint so that when we're pushing and we're pressing, we don't deform the membrane in a non-spherical manner. So that's super important. And we need also to make sure that we don't hypothetically fixed the edge of the membrane because then we're going to lose the focusing range completely, so that's what we do today. The simulation are really promising. And we will make prototype by the end of the year to prove the concept. There is another concept also moving in parallel. And we are also developing a concept for the actuation, which are based on Piezo element, piezo material, but they will be bulk today. So today, it's bulk Piezo based. In the future that will potentially migrate to MEMS thin film Piezo. And you see that those bigger TLens, which will be in the range of 4 to 6 to 8 millimeter diameter will be basically fitting into those telephoto cameras. As Christian mentioned, the trend on the mobile as we need to push to higher sensor format higher megapixel lower F number. And VCM says a really hard time to support that because if you go for bigger sensor, bigger effective focal lens, you need a huge stroke, and the lens are very big and the VCM cannot do 1 millimeter stroke. And if they do, it will be very sluggish, very unreliable. And that's where the tunable lens are really, I believe, are coming as a solution for that. So that's what we're working on, okay? So then the new baby, the new product -- new functionality, this is a TWedge. The TWedge is that deal steering capability. You see that, again, based on the technology break polymer between 2 pieces of glass window. And you have activators, which are pushing to create the bidirectional shifting. It's a [indiscernible] shift, which is translated in a pixel shift in the focal plane of the [indiscernible]. So basically, by shifting by 0.5 pixel, you make 2x2 improved resolution, which is 4x improved resolution. So this technology also for the -- the first product, I believe, will be based on bulk piezo, but that could definitely be migrated in the future when the volume will make sense to go for MEMS. We could replace those bulk piezo with MEMS stack peizo, still under development, but there is some hope that we will be able to go that direction. You're going to see a demo -- we have done 3 technical samples. The first one was really the first concept proof. We went for TS2, which was the first size reduction more product-oriented type of designs that we have used to sample some customers to learn, if it was fitting their performance that we had to go for. And now, we have recently assembled the first TSV, which are more to fit the requirement of most of the AR/VR customer, we believe. And you're going to see some samples of that one also. So just to give you a little bit more information about where the TWedge will be implemented. So you see it on the left side here, you have a wave guide with a life engine on the top there. And that light engine is basically the mitral display with precision with optical lens to form the image through the wave guide to the eye. And the TWedge will be inserted in between the TWedge -- the wave guide and the optics stack. So that's where the device will be positioned, okay? So then to summarize, obviously, R&D team is fully committed to develop and keep developing new solution and key grid technology for supporting the future opportunity of poLight by focusing and developing continuously more IT, implementing continuous improvement on the TLens like ARC, there are potentially other things that we need to improve in the future. Continue to develop the solution for adding support customers. Obviously, the 2 last bullet are the most important one, and that's the Diamond TLens. We need to keep pushing to come with solutions there. Of course, Platinium and micro are in standby and hopefully will be triggered by a customer in the future. And we are creating that new family of product, which today is TWedge will be later, but it could also be extended with more range to really optical image stabilization in different form factors. So last 2 years ago, we give you other information about the order [indiscernible] folded structure with OIS -- those kind of things are still on the road map, and we're working on. We are doing simulation. We're waiting again to get some momentum from customers to push a little bit that more to the next step.

Thank you, Pierre, for a fantastic presentation. Then we are -- next is Marianne. Marianne is COO. Marianne has been working with me for 21 years. 22, can you imagine? And in 3 different companies. She has been always managing kind of the operational setup and manufacturing, so Marianne, we're looking forward to your presentation. I think maybe this is going to keep a little bit more like easy to understand. It's not that easy, but it's the way she presented is it will come across as an easy catch. Enjoy Marianne, do you want me to help you to share and what to be share, slide show.

Thank you very much Øyvind for the kind introduction. I'm very proud to present the operational setup of poLight. All right. As Øyvind said, poLight, we are a fabulous company, except of the polymer. We decided to maintain [ polymer ] in-house. So for the MEMS -- Piezo MEMS and the assembly test, we have signed up with professional partners. We do prototyping, a sampling low volume year from headquarter. When it comes to the optical or the polymer, the optical gen that we have used the last 10 to 15 years to optimize. We do that in-house. We do testing of all critical parameter before we shift it from here. Then we shift it as a 2 component material in syringes to our manufacturing partner. There, we will be mixing. We would do dispensing and we will do curing. As there is a long shelf time on the polymer, we also maintain buffer stock at our manufacturing partners. Another area that has been very improved for us is the Data management area, the handling of all the test data. As Pierre said, we do 100% testing of all TLenses. And for each TLens, we had around 200 to 300 measurements. In addition, we have quite a lot of images. So it's all about securing that we have an efficient system to collect, analyze and report. So this is key for us to work on instant problems, yield improvement, quality improvement and the product optimization. It's also been important for us to have a setup here at headquarter where we can replicate more or less what we do in the MP line. So we have had the opportunity to invest over time. And today, we can both support our colleagues remotely. We can work on product quality over time, and we can also support customers that might require a special support during their proof of concept. Then what about scalability? No doubt that when volume comes, we will also look for second source. That will also be a risk mitigation of the volumes. However, as long as we don't have the real volumes, we will wait. So second source for benchmarking and risk mitigation scalability will be done when volumes increases. Then about test. As Pierre said, test is extremely important for us. We have developed our own dedicated test equipment together with test equipment suppliers. We have built a lot of competence internally to secure scale flexibility and quality. And we will do in addition to 100% test, we also do 100% outgoing quality control. And Øyvind talked about the importance of building local strength close to our manufacturing partners and close to our customers. I will come a little bit back to that later in my presentation. On quality control, we will record all the test data for each of the TLenses. Traceability both when it comes to the data and the material, all the way from the MEMS vapors through our supply chain until we deliver to the customer. It's also been important for us to build an efficient quality management system, where we secure -- we at any time, have the updated documentation and that we secure any changes deviation. Customer confidence, what do I mean with that? The customers evaluating the TLens technology will, for sure, also evaluate poLight's capabilities of ramping -- of producing a mass production and doing the ramp. They will also make sure that we have an organization in place that we have system in place to handle the orders, the mass production order when they come. We have invested in the sector, and we will continue to do going forward. So even if the volumes are moderate at the low, moderate at the moment, we will continue to load because we have to continue to professionalize ourselves. We have to continue to work on yield improvements. Pierre explained the TLens, like the polymer, the optical [indiscernible] sandwich between 2 high-quality glass. It's the MEMS wafers, the polymer and the glass that are the key components in our supply chain. We shift these pieces to our assembly partner. Here, we'll also do the test before we ship to customer. When it comes to the MEMS wafers, as Øyvind said, our partner is ST Microelectronics. We worked with them since 2013 and we have together developed the advanced optical MEMS actuators. The line we have today is very scalable, prepared for high volumes. The polymer is also very scalable. We used to say that about the liter of polymer is about 1 million TLenses. So we have no problem to deliver from here whatever volumes is required. When it comes to the glass that we have several suppliers. It's our assembly partner handling. This, however, it would be polite that makes the specifications and also will improve the suppliers. Our assembly partner is Tong Hsing. We also worked with them since 2013. We started in Taiwan 2 years ago, we moved the whole production line to Philippines. The reason so is that, that plant is better suited for high volume, low cost. This line we have today at Tong Hsing, and I will also show a video is fully automated. The test, as I said, also at the assembly partner. However, today, poLight is operating to test ourselves. We will not do so when the volumes get really high, then our assembly partner will handle also the test. However, today, we still like to be very close to that test. It's also us that have consigned the test equipment, so a part of our team is continuing to focus on the test part. Then I very much would like to show you a video of how we build the TLens. I know some of you have seen this with you before, However, it demonstrates very well how we do the manufacturing processes. So I hope you are trying to see it again. And I would also like to thank [indiscernible], which is our manufacturing specialist that is the producer of this video. [Presentation]

I hope you enjoyed that one.

Absolutely.

Then, I would like to say a little bit about the manufacturing team we have built up in the Philippines. As Øyvind said, we started off with traveling with suitcase, following up remotely from here. We also have reduced a lot of the R&D resources the last couple of years. However, now we need to let Pierre focus on the R&D going forward. So we had the opportunity to build a local team close to or at the side of our manufacturing partner. So currently, we now have 7 people [ 10 ] people within individual various field of expertise. And each of them have more than 20 years of experience within the semiconductor and electronics. And they all come from mass production, which is a good experience to bring in them. And I have a management team, as a [indiscernible] is giving the complete supply chain management, also used to follow up suppliers and manufacturing partners like Tong Hsing. [indiscernible] coming from manufacturing some [indiscernible] test, also [indiscernible] she is heading the local team. And just recently, [indiscernible], long experience within automation, engineering testing equipment, so he also joined the team. Then a little bit about the experience of what we have produced the last couple of years. During the 3 last years, we have produced more than 1 million TLenses. Most of it has been delivered to customers some has been outstanding and some is in inventory. And as I said, it has been important. What we've seen clearly is that we need to have a product process specialists close to the manufacturing partner. We also, as we've been working with several type of customer segments -- you see that there is various test data that is important to them. So we had to expand. We have to be more flexible in our test setup. And we also see that there are customer that would like to receive a certain test data sorted in the deliveries. So we have also prepared for doing sorting according to customer requests. Then you will ask me what is your yield. And our target is to have a yield above 95%. We are not there yet and we will need more volumes to get there. However, what we have seen of production, it's feasible to reach it. We need to continue with our yield improvement programs, and we need to load more volumes. But we feel confident that we are going to achieve our target. During the last years, we also have had several customer audits from well-recognized customers. And I'm very proud to say that each of them, we have had a positive outcome. We have passed. And so all in all, we have delivered high-quality products to all our customers, looking through the returns we had during the last couple of years is extremely low, I would say, neglectable. And we have, as you can see on the bottom of the slide, we have really supplied TLenses to all the market segments. We've been in the consumer, the [indiscernible] the smartphone, the smartwatch, we deliver to the AR/MR, and we deliver to the barcode. And it's all been demanding customer, so we really have been in -- had to prove ourselves. So summing up, as I said, we have, over the years, worked closely with several recognized customers. demanding the superior quality and reliability, which has allowed us to maintain a high standard, and we have done fine tuning of our offering to adapt to the different market segments. We have today a strong local organization that I'm very proud of. And we have a well-prepared supply chain capable of handling various ramp-up scenarios. So what are we going to do -- going forward, we will continue to load -- as the orders more of the orders coming in, we will increase volumes that will improve the yield further, and we can start to achieve our cost optimization targets. And we will, for sure, continue to work on optimizing the product processes. We will work closely with the customers. We need to understand the ramp-up scenarios. We need to understand based on the capacity we have, what do we -- do we need to expand the capacity when and we also need to follow the material needs carefully. And not to forget, just as important, we need to continue to maintain the strong relationship we have to our manufacturing partners. We have really invested time and efforts together with them. We're going to continue with them. They are just as important for our success. So years of investment in professionalizing our supply chain, manufacturing and successful deliveries have made us confident in our ability to run.

Okay, Marianne, you can just stand with me here and Pierre [indiscernible], will you also join me for the Q&A session. Last, is there any questions from the web. Nothing yet, okay? If you can we -- we are so close anyway. Are we all visible?

Yes.

Okay. Any questions from the audience? I guess it will be more convenient to ask question outside, but the problem is that then the other guys would not be able to ask, but anyway, you decide. Any questions? Yes, done.

You have a lot of data and a lot of secret trade information. How do you cope with the data security.

Data security on...

Yes. But it is -- it's actually to [indiscernible] more the data systems and hacking problems and things like that -- and the other one is that people are not participating outside the company.

Okay. Marianne, would you like to try to answer to that.

It is -- of course, we have -- we have -- actually, recently, we had external investigation of security of our IT system. And so they have been kind of classified as adequate. When it comes to what should I say, when it comes to that we are not kind of spreading -- spreading and telling competition or others confidential information is, of course, something we cannot completely control. But what I can say and what I feel is that to do what we have done, it takes more information, a bits and pieces of information. It also takes the need to tap into the supply chain. And I think it will be extremely difficult to replicate. I think then it will be easier and faster and cheaper to buy the company. It's going to be extremely difficult to replicate from outside. I don't know, if I answer your question absolutely correctly done, but -- and then any other question? Yes, please.

When will poLight make the first high volume shipment and giving significant revenue? And for what kind of products will that be.

Extremely good question and of course, difficult to answer. But as Kristen said, we are focusing on different market segments. Smartphone will, of course, will be that volume, which today represents high volumes. [indiscernible] explained what kind of initiative it takes to kind of ease the implementation of TLens. So in my smartphone high volume will be what is kind of close to us. Then of course, to get you to the back end, we need a bigger TLens, which is a few years ahead of us. But selfie camera which as Kristen said, is gradually coming into more and more on the high-end phones and mid-end phones and in the end, lower-end phones. But then we need a system solution using TLens, which is significantly less expensive than today. That is not some select to the component cost of the TLens were the way they do it. And that's what we have tried to solve that they can do it in a simple way, enabling more camera motor suppliers to do the same, which are more high-end guys do today. But that is kind of the most, I would say, closest to us. Then, as Tristan said, [indiscernible] will have a fantastic position. Tristan also mentioned without having my new guidance of [indiscernible], but it did that anyway, you know I'm kidding. And then 2026 there should be a possibility to see a consumer AR/MR supply from the company. Okay. Any other question? Yes.

Coming from a original military background, it's interesting for me to know the defense market. Have you looked at that specifically or just part of the whole package in a way, whereas TLens is a part of whole system that doesn't use both [indiscernible].

As far as [indiscernible], I don't think we have been addressing the military market. The only thing here from top of my head, unless, but I'm thinking a little bit about this very small drone and drone technology which I think maybe sooner or later will have the need for potentially this kind of technology could be an application the way I think.

[indiscernible] with your obviously brilliant on focusing and combined with zooming [indiscernible].

I think we -- there is -- should be something there, I feel also, yes. Tristan, [indiscernible] to speak.

I would answer it indirectly, our -- as you've heard me present in the AR/MR space in the enterprise -- we call it enterprise segment, which is an industrial professional segment and consumer. On the enterprise space, we cannot name which customer, but our enterprise customers do address that market segment. So we're indirectly [indiscernible]. I would say not in a major fashion, but it is definitely some of the emerging...

In that segment.

Yes.

And then if we police can be seen as a military.

Yes. Yes. Police also is, in a way, at least it's in that direction and you take a bodycam, stuff like that.

There's something we have been addressing.

Yes. Don, again, yes.

Yes. Øyvind, you actually have asked so many times that for a small, how should we say, a dedicated company, you have to limit yourself and not being all over to place. And except for maybe automative [indiscernible]. And now today, we have seen that we were also starting up a lot of new, very, very interesting new projects. But how do we really have resources to do this and will you be able to sort of put a balance on the efforts you put on the -- how should we say, the high-yield ones and then maybe ones that would take a long time and maybe not so high volume. I guess they are all the easy answer is yes, but maybe you could expand a little bit on that.

Yes. But I think it's a very good question. It's a very good comment. Are we focused enough? Are we able to deliver on what we are trying to -- all activities we are trying to do? As I said in the beginning, we were laser focused on consumer, and we didn't do anything else. We shut it off everything else. As we mature both the organization and the product, we allowed for incoming calls to get attention. What we now have done is that we have defined 3 segments, but the priority is very clear. If there is a smartphone project coming in or we find that will get all attention. If there's another consumer project coming in, that we get all attention. If there is an ARM project, which will be a consumer-related, it will get super high attention. So in a way, the priority is very clear. I think that having clear priority means that we, as management, we can -- before we address new cases. We have weekly stales and market meetings with all the VP business development, discussing opportunity and putting priority, need support, do not support, customer dilute themselves or not, do we need to use resources from Pierre [indiscernible]. So we do that kind of would say, live priority so that we don't miss the opportunity with the final key strategic opportunities. So I think we managed that in a good way. But still, I used -- I've been managing tech companies for 30 years, and I always said doing too much too early, it's a recipe for disaster. I don't think we are on that track. Yes, please.

Yes, a short question regarding we've been through a funding process last year [indiscernible] financial -- and you said that this is very important for potential customers. And I was wondering if you could elaborate a little bit more on which kind of customers have wished for more secure funding.

I would say -- yes, so you're saying that funding is important. I've said that, yes, that's correct. And why if I'm saying that, it's basically based on, I would say, experience and history. And of course, when we are working with big names, which we are and small names, but they are definitely very professional in their kind of closes of selecting technology and suppliers. But typically what they will do before they do a lot of investment in the POCs and testing programs, they would like to understand, okay, say, if we would like to use or can this company supply. Are they sustainable and they -- will they survive? Will they have the cash to survive and supply us for in 2028. . So they are typically then I brought them to kind of due diligence meetings or course where [indiscernible] business plan, financing, and that's why we said that we -- and of course, if I'm sitting in those meetings with NOK 10 million on their account, that will be end of the meeting. So I need to make sure that I can show a solid financial situation for them to tier to take the next step. So this is happening in this kind of questioning is coming up in all I would say, cases where you have a, I would say, a significant type of company with a professional organization always. As the same as they ask Marianne, can you ramp? Do we have the capability? And if we can't -- if we are starting flacking with [ oblique ] on those questions, [indiscernible].

Marianne, you were talking about second source and you didn't want to start until you have enough volumes, which makes sense. But sometimes, customers are really demanding second source, out of 30 year experienced sector...

We have -- has been addressed. However, we have been able to discuss that in somehow professional manner. They also understand you need to have volume to share between potentially your source. But when that said, I said we haven't really gone on to a second source. However, we are tracking the market, we are following up. We are not unprepared, I would say. However, again, I've been there before, having dual source, and I couldn't share the volumes, and that's also a disaster.

So it's a balancing act. We had one -- I remember one case where they had a little [indiscernible] as a concern. And then you typically need to show that you have an inventory, you can allocate the inventory. So there are ways to kind of deal with it in a way. Lastly, do you have any question from the [indiscernible].

Yes, We have 3.

Okay.

First one from [indiscernible], in from the old group mentioned an upcoming [indiscernible] site [indiscernible] to be released later this year. Is the competition from this type of technology increasing and what can this technology [indiscernible].

That's an interesting question. We're obviously looking into that. Today, we know some groups, which are working on tunable lens based on Ecolabs. And that's, of course, extremely interesting. What we need to keep in mind, and I believe that we very often we forget about that, those meta lens are coming not only with super positive and easy way to integrate because they are very sensitive to the monochromaticity. So the wavelength of the light, it's not very applicable for a wide range of visible wavelengths. So I'm still wondering how that will come in the imaging world. Of course, if you go for a pure green or pure red or pure blue type of application then, of course, we would take benefits of that. We could implement meta lens on the backside of the TLens, for example, and make a fantastic supercompact system with tunability also, for example. So it's for sure something that we look into. And gradually, we are getting closer and closer to R&D teams around the world to see how we can use potentially those in combination with the TLens for the future application. It's -- I think that it's like any technology, it will come with a fantastic area of application. But yes, for cameras, I have hard time to believe that it will be widely used.

I'll add that from the market perspective, [indiscernible] perspective, my role prior to joining [indiscernible] in poLight was at Alstrom Microsystems running their 3D and time-of-flight business as a General Manager, dealing with this near infrared, very narrowband, mission purpose 3D cameras, that are meant to deal with near effort use cases like Face ID or world facing [indiscernible]. If you look at the fine print, is [indiscernible] less technology is limited to that application. It is not meant for wideband as Pierre was saying, visible cameras and RGDs. For those, there is going to be adoption Yes, for sure. But longer term, I think the [indiscernible].

Yes. We need to keep an eye, and we are doing it. We are trying to connect with specialists and to run and try to understand how we can use this. What about question from the [indiscernible].

Yes. From [indiscernible]. Automotive is according to the report probably all one of the fastest accessory [indiscernible] segments, including up to 18 cameras indiscernible]. It looks like AR and mobile are the segments you are focusing on what are your outlooks regarding the automotive segment.

Now as you know automotive [indiscernible] segment, we are following. As Kristen said, it is a market which we think sooner or later need AR. And I don't know, if demand may be 5 years ahead of us, we don't know, but we are definitely -- and we have POCs ongoing with players, significant players. What we also have seen is that the initiative peer has started to build a broader keyless portfolio, [indiscernible] is something we expect the automotive application also will need. So we are -- in that sense, we are preparing for also being a player in automotive. We believe that as [indiscernible] was saying it, it was a [indiscernible], that this mechanical moving actuators lens stack in a car environment is completely impossible, we believe. So I think we should, as an actuators on [indiscernible] technology have a great position. We know what they need. We know what they demand. We also know more or less the timing, and we also have to find a road map, which is compatible with that. Yes, one more.

Pierre said that the earliest patents are valid for 8 more years, what will happen when those expire.

Yes. So that's a good question. There are many bricks technology that we have applied patent for, which are valid for much more time than that. So those are the very first one that will expire, which are really related to the TLens today. And of course, for others, like bigger picture and things like that, we are continuing to develop new applications and new patents. So there are small features even in the current TLens, which we have patented also, which will extend in a way the protection for those type of product, so that's what we do. It's a difficult exercise because, of course, everything that we have published, will be used against us because everything which is published cannot be patented. So it's a delicate type of exercise, but we are doing some effort to try to expand even more the current product with new things that we believe are [indiscernible] that we didn't yet and a new way to do a product, of course, so it will have an end, of course, one day or another that's -- but so far, we feel that is still far ahead. And we are really trying to extend that as much as possible.

No, the polymer patent is probably good for 15 more years [indiscernible] definitely much more. Yes, one more question.

What is TLens from [indiscernible]. What is TLens relevance and poLight opportunities in barcode packaging, when it comes to 2Ds.

2D is what we do. Most of the barcode readers today, which are based on cameras are reading to 2D barcodes. The reason why barcode reading went from a laser-based system to an imaging system was because of the exact result of this. Okay. Is there 1 more question from the audience that [indiscernible]. Yes, there is.

[indiscernible] using at Energy [indiscernible] you consider making promotional videos, et cetera, [indiscernible] consumers on different social media, [indiscernible] potential that we are excited for [indiscernible].

I think we had that question also during the quarterly presentation. Maybe it was you asked it. But I think, we did some in the company has one year -- last year we did. You may remember that we posted that in various social platforms. But I think we could do more. We could do more. And as I said in the Q&A yesterday, that we need to look into that if we -- if we can do more on that. It's not a bad idea, and we have done it, but we have probably not done it enough.

[indiscernible] as well to do what the consumer [indiscernible].

True, true. So it will take a big push though, I think. But yes, it's at least in theory, I think you're correct.

About 6 months ago, we've developed this where we're on our way to do the series of -- what we call poLight videos, that showcase exactly that the selfie camera, we knew kind of Apple iPhone 14 series on [indiscernible] readopting the selfie camera. And the key reason for that is one of the key drivers of that is social media, fix of the world YouTube Shorts really requiring the selfie camera to perform and [indiscernible] experience is just not going to be good enough.

But we have to reupload existing videos.

Yes. We showcased that quite nicely actually.

Yes. We did that through social media.

Super good. I think we have done it now. Thank you to my great team for a lot of efforts. So the next is Demos. So those which are here can join us outside. There is a small snack and a drink, non-alcoholic, of course. And we can mingle and talk and you -- of course, you would like to ask all these guys and ladies, a question you really like it to answer, which I didn't ask or to. But they should if they follow the program. This question you have to ask over. So [indiscernible], I would say that we have the TWedge table and we have starting with [indiscernible] will introduce the table, you will show some of the demos. And then also, we have [indiscernible], who is Head of the lab, who will [indiscernible] Don is heading the poLight Ofshore team and he is from Short. His organization was working for Short. We stole that. And he will show the [indiscernible] demo, he has been responsible for the development until now. So Don get ready? Lars, if you come here. Lars will give you a tour on the lab, if you want. So just sign up for Lars, and he will guide you down to the lab. And there, we can see where we produce the polymer and where we have all this -- yes, we can basically do what we do at assembly part, but in a much smaller scale. Okay. So then I will thank everybody participating in this Capital Markets Day. I can promise you there's a lot of work to [indiscernible] and I thank you for participating, and thank you for participating through the web. We tried a low-cost web solution. Hopefully, it works at least we saved 60,000. So good for something. Thank you for a great day.