Poly Medicure Limited (531768) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Poly Medicure Q4 and FY '25 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Himanshu Baid. Thank you. And over to you, sir.

Thank you very much for hosting the call. Again, good evening to everyone who's in the call and I'll take you through the quarterly highlights, quarter 4 highlights and also the annual numbers for next 15, 20 minutes. And again, I'm sure you have seen the presentation, which we have posted already for all our investors on our website. So just to highlight the numbers once again. For the quarter ended March '25, we have consolidated revenue performance of INR 440 crores. That is around 16.5% growth over last year. And also operating EBITDA for the whole quarter is around INR 119.5 crores against INR 96.5 crores over last year's performance. And overall EBITDA has also improved from 25.5% to 27.1% for the quarter. And also you see PAT improvement from INR 68.4 crores to INR 91.8 crores. So, that's the quarter performance. On the annual side, again, if you look at the numbers from INR 1,375 crores, we have gone to around close to INR 1,670 crores, growth of around 21.5% roughly. Again, margins have improved from 26% EBITDA to 27.1%. So, overall EBITDA has improved from INR 357.7 crores to INR 452.8 crores. And again, PAT margin -- PAT has increased from INR 258 crores to INR 338.6 crores. So if you remember the guidance we had given in the beginning of the year, on a standalone basis, the revenue has increased from INR 1,307 crores to INR 1,601 crores, which is close to 22.5%. So, we had given a guidance in the beginning of the year between 22% to 24% growth rate. So, we have -- we are actually within the range of the target, which guidance number which we had provided in the beginning of the year. So, we were very accurately able to forecast our revenue and our projections. Even on the margin side, if you see, the EBITDA margins also improved by close to around 100 bps -- over 100 bps. And that was the also guidance for the year in the beginning of the year where we called out for a margin improvement of 100 bps to 150 bps. So, we are in the range of what we had projected in the beginning of the year. So again, coming back to revenue mix, domestic business overall increased by 18.6% on a standalone basis and export revenue increased by 24% from INR 889 crores to INR 1,010 crores. The biggest highlight in the domestic business was the growth in the renal business. And the renal business has grown significantly by 60% for the whole year. And that is what we had called out. We had called out a number of around close to INR 140 crores to INR 150 crores for renal business for FY '25. And we actually did over INR 150 crores for the whole year. And it has been our main growth sector in the current year. And also, as we go forward in FY '26, we also anticipate close to 50% growth in the renal business as we go forward in FY '26. So, we are pretty much increasing our market share here. We are also selling more and more machines. So this year, our plans are to sell between 500 and 600 machines, between that number. So, close to 40 to 50 machines a month. Totally, we have now installed with over 500 machines. Last year over 350 machines were sold. So now, we are getting more and more market share with the domestically produced machine, which has around 50% local components. And also the dialysis market is growing because the reimbursement rates have changed. The rates have increased from INR 1,200 to INR 1800. And that is probably bringing more and more service providers, opening more centers, standalone centers in the country. So, that's a big plus for the company. The second big plus is our critical care division, which just started last year. And this division will greatly benefit from the 200 dialysis centers -- sorry, oncology centers, which Government of India has announced this year. And there will be total 700 centers over next 3 years. So, oncology business sits in our critical care business. So, that will greatly benefit from this government policy of many standalone centers for drug delivery and oncology. And so this is something a plus sign for us. And we are very hopeful that critical care segment also grow by almost 2.5x in the current year over the previous year's numbers. Cardiology, we have just started last year. It was first 6 months, 7 months of launch and this year will be a full launch because our DES, which was approved, as I mentioned in the last call in February. So, we have commercially launched drug-eluting stent in the market end of March and now we are seeing the sales hitting. At this moment, we've already implanted around 200-plus stents. 100 plus was done within March. Now, we have almost done 200-plus stents as we speak right now. And we have a good report around that. And we are also going to establish a clinical registry in next few months. It will cover over 2,000 patients. So again, that's a big move we are going to do and we will announce it as soon as we finalize all our contracts and parameters around that and some portion of that of those trials -- clinical trials will also be happening in Europe. So that's on the cardiology business. We'll be launching also the drug-eluting balloons and certain PPA catheters, PTCA catheters this year, which are scheduled to be launched this year. We are waiting for some -- licenses from CDSCO. And as soon as we get those licenses, we'll be in a position to launch those products. The balance sheet is, of course, very healthy. We have a liquidity position of INR 1,220 crores as of March '25. Of course, we are looking at some new opportunities in M&A side. And as soon as we finalize something, we'll definitely get back to you with a proper detail. So, we are on a constant lookout for good technology, good companies in India or outside India. And our endeavor is that Polymed should be focusing more on technology in future so that we can build solid platforms across our new verticals like cardiology, critical care and renal portfolio. So, that's where our focus is and we are also looking something outside these areas. And if we find a technology, which is suitable to India and for global market, we'll definitely work on that side. So, these are some of the newer things we are doing. Last year we have launched over 30 products. In FY '24, we launched around 18, 19 products. Now, we have moved around 30 new products, which were launched in FY '25. So, that's a big -- because in cardiology, critical care, we have launched a lot of new devices and that's a big change from our past strategy of only launching 10 to 12 products a year. So, a lot of acceleration in R&D and new product launches across these new divisions. Also, today, we have also signed recently a contract with ZEMBA. It's a global coalition of companies working to accelerate on decarbonization of ocean freight. And Polymed is one of the only few companies, which have signed this contract from India. So, most of our goods will be carried across to different continents through ocean freight will carry green fuel. And that is what we are targeting right now. And that's a big push towards our environmental compliances and building a sustainable manufacturing ecosystem. Also, we signed a contract with AMPIN, which we announced a few months ago that most of the energy will be used in our companies, especially in Faridabad area where we have most of our manufacturing will be green energy, will be generated through solar power. And we are going to establish JV at 10 -- almost 9.5 megawatt solar power plant, which will help us to energize all our factories with green power. And I'm also very happy to announce that recently Polymed as a company had received an award on behalf of the company, EY Entrepreneur of the Year Award 2024 for Life Sciences & Healthcare. So, this was a great recognition from the industry and the peer group about the progress Polymed has made over the years in medical device industry. And that was a great honor to receive on behalf of all our employees, all our stakeholders last month. On the financial side, of course, we continue to accelerate. Again, we have guided this year again for a 20% revenue growth. Overall, we may face some little bit headwinds in export business, but we are very bullish on the domestic market where we are expecting a growth of around 30% to 32% for the whole year. And that's what we are targeting this year where renal will make a significant progress and so as our transfusion and vascular access business. So, we are very bullish on growing market. In India, we have done a lot of work. So from that first quarter of last year where we grew only 6%, all the other 3 quarters we have grown over 23%, 24% in domestic business. And now as we have achieved certain momentum, so I think now we will see a much bigger growth rate in coming quarters and in this current year. Exports, I think we will see a growth rate between 12% to 15%. That's what we see this year. And of course, after a few months, we'll have more clarity, how things are shaping up. The current geopolitical situation is pretty fluid right now. And of course, we will watch it out. But with the current contracts we have, current visibility we have, we don't see any reason that it will not grow 12% to 15%. So overall, we see average, both the growths, where 1/3 revenue comes from India, 2/3 come from export. So, we should be able to hit our 20% goal, should be able to hit that very easily. And also on the margin side, I think we still expect margins to remain between 25% to 27% of EBITDA. This is where we are guiding today. Hopefully, we should be able to do better, but this is what we will guide for the moment. And as time progresses, we'll have much more clarity on these issues. So, these are some of the updates from my side. And now -- I'll ask all the people on the call. And if there are any questions, I'll be happy to answer them and happy to receive some feedback from you guys. Thank you so much. And again back to you, the ICICI team.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Nitin Gosar from BOI FM.

Himanshu ji, congrats on good set of number again. Sir, just wanted to understand, a couple of days back India signed a free trade agreement with U.K. I believe U.K., Europe has been one of our dominant geography when it comes to export. With FTA keeping in mind, does it help our business to any extent?

See, I think it's a very big move. See, currently, we already have a presence in the U.K. market. Almost 5% to 6% of our revenue is coming from U.K. from the export side. So, what we are seeing right now is that the NHS, which is one of the largest consumer of medical devices, I think there we will benefit a lot because now with this long-term FTA being signed, at least the structure -- the tariff structure remains constant and this will help companies, which are working with NHS and with us directly. I think they will see a longer runway to procure products from India. Also, we have a strategy to go direct because we have a subsidiary in the U.K. now. So, we also have a strategic intent to go direct in the U.K. market through our subsidiary. So, that is also a big, big move for us because it will help us to recruit some people on a temporary basis and also access the market directly. And the next thing, I see is opportunity on the CDMO side. Many companies can see India as a long-term partner to develop, design and manufacturing capability in India and to address the U.K. market. So overall, I see as a very positive move for at least for medtech sector.

But when I hear your commentary in terms of outlook for FY '26, we are slightly more lower on the growth, not exactly muted, but slightly lower. Is it more to do with U.S. as a tariff, which is creating an ambiguity around?

Yes. I think you're right, Nitin. So, everybody is in a flux right now. So nobody knows what's happening. So, some people who had 10% tariff, we are the winners here, but suddenly they are not the winners. So, we don't know who is going to win, who's going to lose. So, I think it's a global -- last few months there's a global turmoil in the whole global trade. So, trade markets have kind of stalled a little bit. But yes, we are in a healthcare business where we will not see a downturn because people need products. So, I think it's a matter of time. And I think because we are in a situation, what we are seeing today and yesterday and day before, we are commenting like that. Maybe 3 months from now, will we have a different outlook altogether?

Yes. Just to understand on the U.S. tariff part, supposedly hypothetically, there is 10% tariff, how does it affect our cost positioning vis-a-vis the competing nations?

I think 10% tariff -- see, what has India negotiated now with U.K. also, I think, on most of the products, close to 0% to 4% tariffs. And so almost we are giving a free access to those markets. I think similar for medical devices, which have an inward duty of 5% to 10% in India and Indian exports are almost like 2% to 3% duty, I think 2.5% or 2.75% duty. So, I think on the reciprocal side, if India matches that, I think the duty will drop to around 4% to 5% for Indian products also, whereas China, even in the Biden era, there was duty on medical devices from China. But what I feel personally is India will get a leeway because we have a strong pharmaceutical industry. Pharma, medical devices, all are clubbed together. So, I think we will see a better tariff structure for Indian products. And I think now we are also getting a lot of inquiries from U.S. customers who are looking at India as an alternate base. This is going to take a long time. It's not an easy win or near win, but I think in the long run, I think India would be a winner.

Got it. Got it. And one last bit on margins where you said the range is between on guidance around 25% to 27%, but with certain degree of optimism as well. So it can be 27% plus as well.

The point here is again the situation we are into today and yesterday and day before. So it is very hard to comment and I don't want to be over-committing and under-delivering.

No, I completely agree with you, sir.

Let's have a -- see, anyways, company is doing fine. We are doing -- yes. So, I think the business is in a good shape, is in a good auto mode. But the only thing is let's be cautious, conserve our capital, conserve our energies for a bigger opportunity is going to come to us.

But just to understand your thought process, what scenario can result 25% and what scenario can trigger 27% plus, if you can help us understand these 2 scenarios?

See, I think -- see if the export growth gets lower than, let's say, 12% to 15%, then we may hit a 25% number. But if the export growth continues in north of 15%, then we could still hit that 27% EBITDA margin.

Okay. So, we want export to be 15% plus. That will...

Yes. That's what we are targeting and that's what should happen. That's the minimum number internally we have simulated and I think we should be able to achieve it. Though we have done in the earlier, it was around 23%, 24% growth. Also last year was 24% growth in exports. But I think 2 months, 3 months, I think, end of quarter 1, quarter 2 we'll have more clarity, I think. This is a very difficult year for everybody.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Rashmi from Dolat Capital.

So, follow-up from the earlier participant only. In quarter 4, we have seen a slowdown in the Europe business and you also mentioned because of the tariff disturbances and all. So in Europe specifically, which countries you have actually seen such slowdown and going ahead in FY '25?

Rashmi -- so, a good question, but we don't call out separate the countries because it's a very confidential information. But in general, there was a slowdown coming from -- mainly from countries in South Europe. So, I think that's where we had a slowdown. And I think as time progresses, I think it should come back because in most of the countries, there were supply chain disruptions, maybe overstocking. So, all those things were a combination of factors. And nobody knows where the tariffs are coming, what is going to happen to China and how they're going to take it up. So, there are certain things. So it's for everybody -- I think we have still done very well in growing our exports by 14%.Most of the companies, which are in medical devices have not grown at all in exports.

Okay. Okay. And coming to the category-wise in infusion therapy in India, how is that progressing? I mean, what is the expectation -- like in the renal segment, you already said that we would be able to grow 50% sort of growth even in FY '26. But what is happening in the infusion category? What kind of growth are you seeing in that business?

So, I think in infusion category, we are looking at a growth of 18% to 20% in the current year. And I think that's the number we have internally set as a benchmark. And I think markets are growing. There's a lot of consolidation happening in the hospital sector. You already see a lot of mergers happening. So that is -- and wherever we have presence in one hospital chain and they are merging, so it gives us an automatic into the next hospital chain. And that's what we have seen over last 1 year. So, our presence in chain hospitals have increased considerably. And I think that's what we are seeing more corporatization. And Polymed, which is operating today in a higher -- mid-tier to higher segment in this category, so we are able to also -- and you have seen that we have worked very hard in the domestic market in last 1 year. So, I think that is what we will call out as 18%, 20% growth rate in infusion business.

And this 18% to 20%, considering both India as well as the export market, right?

We have not called out export, Rashmi. This is more on India.

Just more on India business.

Yes. Because you called out India, so I've called out India.

Yes. Okay. Got it. That's a clear clarification. Another thing just in the renal segment, with some of the distributor checks and all, what we understood that even though we sell dialysis machine at a discount to the market leaders like Fresenius Kabi and Nipro and they are already the market leaders very well, still penetrated in the Indian market and we are second to them, I mean, in between. And we do have other sort of players like Chinese players, who are basically even discount to our own pricing, what we are selling it to the customer at a very low pricing. So, we are somewhere in between. So just to understand that, what strategies are you taking in order to get more acceptable by the customers because somewhere we feel that we are in between.

So, I think -- so Rashmi, let's understand. Most of these companies, you called out the names, initial names like Fresenius and Nipro have been in the market for 40 years. They have installations of over 40,000, 50,000 machines across both the companies, whereas we have installation of only 500 machines. We are a newest entrant, entered just a year or 1.5 years ago with that product line. So, we are building our team of engineers, application team. I think the service is going to make a difference. Chinese don't offer any service. So that's the biggest disadvantage. They don't have any service backup or engineering backup in the country. They don't do any trainings in the country. So today, every customer is looking for a service backup for trainings, application training, technician training. And that is what we have been doing for last 1, 1.5 years. That's the reason we are able to sell 350 machines last year. So now, this year plan is 500 to 600 machines, as I mentioned earlier. So the servicing, the continuity of the machines because we'll be able to very quickly -- if there's a machine that needs repair, we are able to sell our technicians very quickly there to repair the machines and to manage those machines. And as we are putting more machines in the market, our reach is increasing and we are able to then take a bigger market share from the market. And with at least 50% Make in India content, I think that becomes an advantage, especially where dialysis is still a very highly government dominated business. We get an advantage as a local manufacturer.

And this 500 to 600 installations which you did, is it to specific regions or is it distributed pan-India?

This would be pan-India.

Pan-India. And how many technicians we have specifically as a servicemen?

We have totally 30 plus, today, engineers who are around, who are helping us to manage these machines across the country. And each engineer actually in its full capacity can manage around 20 to 30 machines. So, we have already put people in strategic locations, which will help us to grow the business in those areas very fast.

Okay. And one last question on the PLI benefits. Have we realized anything for the renal segment?

No. Zero.

But are we expecting anything in FY '26?

Can't say. If we hit some targets, we would. But I'm building the business not based on PLI base. Building the business on merit of the products we manufacture because PLI anyway is going to finish in 2 years. FY '27 PLI is over anyways. The business is built on the merit of product quality, good products. So, I think that is more important to us.

The next question is from the line of Ravi Kumar Naredi from Naredi Investment P. Limited.

Yes. Himanshu ji, you are doing a very fantastic thing. Sir, our renal contribution is 60%. So it will maintain or may rise more?

[Foreign Language] Sir, renal growth is 60% last year. This next year, we are planning because the base has increased now. So, we are looking at growing by around INR 75 crores over the current base of INR 150 crores. So, around 50% growth is what we are guiding for renal business. And currently, still all renal products are being sourced from outside India. And I think as we get more and more market share and as more and more product goes out in the market and people, they develop trust on our brand and product, this will help us to grow the market share considerably. And that's what we are doing right now.

Yes. And sir, what is our CapEx plan for next few years?

I think next 2 years, we have called out the CapEx of around INR 500 crores across 3 new manufacturing facilities we are building right now. And mostly it will help us in expanding the renal capacity and look at some new opportunities in the CDMO space that we are trying to figure out with this new tariff structure, which is hit. So, there are some new opportunities opening up. So, we are working on those areas also and creating infrastructure for that.

Okay. And our margin in export are more or domestic are more?

The margin in export is slightly higher than the domestic business.

The next question is from the line of Abhas Dua from Layman Ventures.

Congratulations on the remarkable performance. I just want to ask you, given your clear commitment to innovation as evidenced by 334 patents granted globally and your R&D expenses has increased this year, can you share more about new research and development initiatives for product innovations that Poly Medicure is focusing on this quarter?

That's a great question. And I think for us it's very important as an Indian company to focus on new product development and new innovations. So, yes, we are hiring 40 more people in the R&D team this year. So from a presence set of 60, 70 people, we'll move to around 100-plus people this year. We are adding more, and we are going to spend more money on clinical trials, which is part of the R&D cost to help us to establish the efficacy of the products we are manufacturing today. So, there's a clear drive that over next 2 years, 3 years, we'll spend more and more money on R&D and you will see that expense increasing over next 2 years, 3 years. Because as we enter the critical care and cardiology space, our R&D spend will also increase, but will also help us to bring new devices, which will be more -- where we'll see gross margin improvement in some of the devices we are developing today.

Okay. Also, I just want to have your take on the increasing advanced technologies in critical care, oncology and renal solutions. What are you expecting? How this play out?

So, I think today in any business, you have to continuously innovate because otherwise the product life cycle kind of becomes stagnant. So even in renal, we are bringing some new technologies. We have at least 7 or 8 products, new products, where we are trying to bring in some new ideas and bring some new technology and also improve our existing product lines, adding more SKUs there. So, that's on the renal space. Cardiology, as I told earlier, we are working on the new drug-eluting balloons, which nobody manufactures in India. Everything what we see in India is imported here, building the new PTCA catheters and some others, very specialized guidewires. So, that is what we are trying to build now in India and across different technologies. So every area we are creating a specialization of products.

And how do you manage the emerging competitors in the medical device market?

See, we have been managing for 28 years, so that's not new. So currently, we still are one of the most profitable companies in the sector. We continue to invest in new technology, new manufacturing. Strategically, we are launching products, which are new generation devices. So, that's the DNA of the company and I think we continue to work on the same DNA. Nothing is changing.

The next question is from the line of Virti Shah from Systematix.

So, just wanted to know like some insights on our current portfolio coverage in India and specifically, what percentage of hospitals can we address through our existing portfolio like in terms of SKUs?

See, today the products we manufacture can cut across into every hospital, which is existing in India, almost 20,000 hospitals, which are over 50 beds. So, I think we have a very wide basket of products, over 250 products across the 6 verticals we run in India and we continue to expand that basket. So, over even next 3 years, we'll add another 50 more products or 60 more products in the 6 verticals. So, there's a huge basket expansion happening, which ensures that every hospital would be a relevant customer to us.

And what is your -- which product category you are -- I mean, your export is driving?

So, export is basically focused on our vascular access infusion portfolio where we have a global competence. And as time progresses in next 2 years, 3 years, we'll also build exports for our critical care, cardiology and renal business, which we have just started last year in India. Renal is slightly older, but we are still trying to focus more in bridging that import gap in India. But as we have more capacity, surplus capacity, we'll also build renal as an export business for us. So, that's what we are targeting right now.

Okay. And last question. What is your current market share in India for dialyzers and what percentage you think it will grow?

So current market share, I think we estimate is close to around 10% to 12%. And hopefully, as we are calling out already 50% growth this year, industry probably is going around 25%. So, we'll grow double the rate of the industry. So next 2 years, 3 years we can expect the market share to grow to around 15% to 17%.

The next question is from the line of Rahul Deshmukh from LKP Securities.

So, I just wanted to understand the contribution [indiscernible] report the contribution from surgery and wound drainage and blood transplant?

So, we don't call out segments which are very small for the company. And so that's clubbed under the general category. So, we don't call out the numbers. And now these are some of the numbers are confidential. I can't share on the call.

Okay. That's fine. And I just wanted to know which products the margins are better and which products margin [indiscernible].

Rahul, you're asking me a secret recipe for my business?

If you can [indiscernible].

You're typically asking me secret recipe on an open forum. So, of course, we don't call out margins for each product. We don't give that information. But yes, vascular, infusion, which is our core business is where we -- because we have a global competence on this business. And some of the products we have good market share globally. So, those are the products will make more margins.

Next question is on [indiscernible].

Rahul, can you speak more loudly? I can't hear you very well. So if you can be more closer to the mic. Yes. Rahul, can you be more closer to the mic, please?

Sir, the line for Mr. Rahul has been disconnected. So, shall we move to the next question?

Please.

The next question is from the line of Jasdeep from Clockvine.

Sir, what percentage of your domestic sales, excluding renal business, comes from the government?

So, total government revenue is around 10% to 12% as of date of the total domestic business.

Okay. Got it. And how has this number grown over the last couple of years?

It is decreasing. So, we are seeing a decreasing then. Again, I think, first of all, there's a big payment issue with the state governments where payments are coming not even in one year from many state governments. And again, quality is not considered as a clear selection criteria. So, that is actually really for us is better to move more in the value accretive segment, which is the private segment and then that is where we are getting more market share. So, I think government is not a focus area for us.

Got it, sir. Sir, considering that you are a challenger in the renal business and growing really fast, would it be right to assume that the margins in renal business are poor as of now and as you build scale over the next couple of years, the margins will...

Absolutely correct. And I think -- because this is a start and as you heard on the call earlier, we're in the middle of the segment getting squeezed. There are big companies. There are smaller Chinese companies, which are pushing the market. So, we're in the middle. But I think as the volume expansion happens, we'll get operational leverage because we are building the team. We have build the infrastructure across the country. So, I think once we start leveraging it more, I think we'll see more margin improvement then. You're absolutely correct.

It would be a loss-making business as of now, sir?

It's not loss making. Operating margin is positive. So, I think it's all about -- I think probably by end of this financial year, we should be able to be making an impact on this business.

Got it. Sir, how have your margins in the domestic business moved over the last 3 years? If you could just talk about the trends in the business last year on the margins front?

I think trends would be improving as the revenue -- again, see, last year, if you see, we have added 70 new people across 2 divisions, which were absolutely not -- it was just starters. There was no real margin coming from those 2 new businesses. The contribution was very, very less. And these are expensive people in cardiology and critical care. So again, the margin would be slightly flatter over last couple of years. But I think as we have guided again, as you've heard on the call, I've guided for a growth of 30% to 32% for this year for domestic business growth. I think that would help us to increase our margin substantially in times to come in domestic business.

The next question is from the line of Harshi Shah from Beas Capital.

Himanshu, congratulations. It's been a great year. Two questions. First, how do you see the demand in exports, especially Europe coming through during the year? And you have MDR certificates for 15 new products. So, I think 15% is slightly conservative. And secondly, net working capital days have increased slightly. So, just some color on that?

So, I think on the export market -- the second question, I'll ask Rahul to answer for you. The first question, yes, exports in Europe will increase. The point here is right now, currently, the global situation is very fluid. And that's the reason, if you heard me earlier on the call, we have given a conservative guidance. But let's see what happens in next 2 months, 3 months and we'll have more better clarity. But of course, Europe will be a prime market where 1/3 of the revenue still comes from Europe in the company. So, I think we are pretty optimistic about the market. But I think few months will have more clarity. So, I think we are not in a position to give a better number than 15% right now.

And just to answer the question on net working capital, right, I think we have been obviously trying to add market share in the domestic market to grow faster, right, and extending some credit lines to our distributors to help gain that market share. Plus we obviously built out inventory, as you know, we've lots of raw materials coming from overseas market, right. So, I think those are the reasons. But it's not expanded a lot. So we are quite okay from an overall net working capital perspective.

The next question is from the line of Girish Jain from KJMC Financial Services Limited.

[indiscernible].

Girish ji, your voice is cracking, sir. Your voice is cracking. Girish ji, I can't hear you. Your voice is cracking. I can't hear him.

Okay. I said, congratulations on a good set of numbers and some of the questions have already been covered. Just wanted to get a sense of the CapEx. The company continues to be in a heavy CapEx cycle mode, and I think you mentioned about in the next couple of years around INR 500 crores of more CapEx is being planned. In the earlier call, you had mentioned about 3 new facilities, I think in Haryana, Uttarakhand and Rajasthan. Some flavor on the schedule of the commercialization of these plants and any new plants identified, new sites identified.?

So, already these sites were already identified, Girish ji, when we raised the QIP money for expansion. So, these sites were already identified and already construction work has started in on 2 sites already. Third side, we will start maybe in few months. So, we are waiting for some approvals. So, this is part of what we had already announced earlier. It will take us around 18 months to 24 months to build a plant. So in the previous call, I had mentioned that by end of '26, calendar year '26, we should be able to commercialize this operation.

Okay. And the company is sitting on a cash of, I think, INR 1,100 crores if I understand and obviously, just throwing up INR 250 crores to INR 300 crores cash annually as well. Has there been some plan on acquisition, which is now going ahead and what are the plan for use of this capital?

So basically, if you see out of that, INR 1,000 crores were raised recently through a QIP in August, September last year almost 6 months, 7 months ago and this money is still quite unutilized. Almost INR 900 crores of this money is still utilized and INR 300 crores was previous cash in the company, which was built through internal approvals. So, we will be using some of the money in CapEx this year and some money what we use maybe for general corporate purposes in working capital because we still have very, very low debt from the banks in terms of working capital. The company is debt-free anyways. Long term there's no debt in the company. So, that money will be utilized there. And we are working on certain M&A targets. Hopefully, if something works well, then we will be utilizing some of the cash even for M&A operations.

On the M&A, have you been able to decide, which particular vertical you would be interested in, whether it be critical care or renal?

Girish ji, I can't call out. This is sensitive information. I'm sorry, I can't answer this question. We will work within what we are -- we have a specialty in, in those areas. So, that's what we'll work within the same specialty areas. And if we have some new M& A opportunity, we'll definitely do a complete DD before getting into a new vertical.

Understand. And the last question is we just noticed that the dividend payout ratio has come down from 15%, 16% it used to be 4 years, 5 years back to now, I think, around 10%. Is this the company's plan to preserve cash? I was mentioning about the dividend payout.

I think here -- I think the Board had taken a view that as we are going for a heavy CapEx and also there are certain M&A opportunities to conserve cash and of course, make prudence in there. But I've heard your point and we'll convey this to again Board Members to be more considerate in giving dividends.

The next question is from the line of Rahul Deshmukh from LKP Securities.

Sir, am I audible?

Yes, Rahul. Please go ahead.

Yes. Sir, so my second question was on the inorganic expansion that we were talking. So actually, is there any specific criteria that we have set for the inorganic expansion like in particular category or any geography we are targeting?

I think, Rahul, I just answered the question just before this. And yes, we will see -- we will focus on -- see, our core competence in consumer space and I think that's what we want to do. And if we are moving outside consumables or let's say in any other space, then definitely we will look at something, which is fitting with the current operations of the company. So, I can't call out specifically what we are going to do or what we are looking at because that is the sensitive information. But as and when we finalize, we will give a due explanation to all our stakeholders that why we have done it, what are the synergies and what we see as a long-term objective of doing that M&A.

Ladies and gentlemen, this was the last question for the day. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Himanshu for closing comments. Thank you. And over to you, sir.

So thank you very much, all the participants and they were really intriguing questions. And thank you again for your support and opportunity to speak to you over these calls. We learn a lot with your questions and really helping us to improve our performance and also go deeper, dig deeper in certain questions you have asked, which will help us to bring better products, serve humanity better. So, that's one of the objectives of the company and look forward to talk to you soon. And again, invite some of you who want to visit our plants, please come and visit us. You'll be happy to see how we are innovating, how we are manufacturing products and these all are world-class facilities, which will actually excite you more. Thank you so much.

On behalf of Poly Medicure, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.