PolyNovo Limited (PNV) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Thank you, and welcome, everybody. As we've got a quorum present, I declare the 2021 Annual General Meeting of PolyNovo open. I'm David Williams, the Chairman of PolyNovo. I'd like to extend a warm welcome to you all and especially our shareholders who are participating through this online platform. Let me start by introducing my fellow directors, and I hope you can see them on the screen, but I've got Dr. Robyn Elliott, and I'll ask them just to do a little wave. Christine Emmanuel; Andy Lumsden, who joined the Board in June this year, and I'll get him to say a few words when we come to his election. Mr. Bruce Rathie, he's up for reelection this year as well. I'll get him to say a few words. Dr. David McQuillan, who's in from the U.S.; and Mr. Leon Hoare. I would also like to introduce our Managing Director, Paul Brennan, who will be talking later; and our CFO, Company Secretary, Jan Gielen. We also have on the line Ashley Butler and Ross Burt from our auditors, Ernst & Young; and Bart Oude-Vrielink from the company's lawyers, MinterEllison. As we are holding the meeting virtually this year as last year, if we experience any technical difficulties, I propose to hand over the chair or he'll take it without me handing it over to Bruce Rathie. Let me talk about the Notice of Meeting. The Notice of Meeting was dispatched to shareholders in compliance with the company's constitution and is also available from our ASX announcement. I take the Notice of Meeting as read. Voting today will be conducted by way of a poll on all items of business. To provide you with enough time to vote, I'll open the voting right now on all resolutions. If you are eligible to vote at this meeting, a new voting tab will appear. Selecting this tab will bring up a list of resolutions and present you with voting options. To cast your vote, simply select one of the options. There is no need to hit a Submit or an Enter button as the vote is automatically recorded. You can change your vote at any time as the meeting progresses until the end of the meeting. And I will give you notice at the end of the meeting about -- fair warning about when I intend to close the voting. I'd like to appoint Angela Liapis from Computershare Investor Services as the returning officer. Results will be compiled and released to the ASX after the conclusion of the meeting. There will be no need for us to all hang around. It'll take Angela and her team a few minutes to do all that, and they'll be subsequently released to the ASX. Questions can be submitted at any time. [Operator Instructions] For those shareholders who wish to ask a verbal question, an audio question facility is also available during the meeting. [Operator Instructions] You will then listen to the meeting on this page while waiting to ask your question. If you have any issues using this system, please return to the Lumi platform. Please note that while you can submit questions from now on, I will not address them until the appropriate time. Please also note that your questions will be moderated by our Company Secretary, Jan Gielen and amalgamated if we've got multiple questions on the same topic. If we run out of time, which I doubt, but if we run out of time, then we'll answer them after the event either by e-mail or I'll call you myself personally. Let me go on to the financial statements. Item 1 on the Notice of Meeting is to receive and consider the annual financial statements for the 12 months ended 30 June 2021 for the company and its controlled entities with the reports of directors and auditors. Are there any questions with respect to the financial report of the company's auditors?

There are no questions, David.

We've got none, Jan?

No questions, David.

If there are no questions, I'll consider the financial report and directors' and auditor's reports received and adopted. Let me -- I propose to say a few words myself, then introduce Paul, who will say a few words about the year just passed and the year ahead. And then we'll go on to the formal part of the meeting. So as is my want, I'd just like to make a few editorial comments about the year just passed and the year ahead without taking too much of Paul's thunder. I think everybody on this call needs no prompting as to what the effects of COVID have been on the hospital system worldwide not just in this country but in every country we operate. It's the place where we do our business in hospitals with surgeons. And it's been a disastrous year for hospitals whichever way you look at it. Trying to get into a hospital, trying to get a surgeon, trying to get elective surgery done, I think there's none of us that won't have a war story either from our own family or others who couldn't even get in to see a loved one that was dying. So in that context, I think everybody should be able to appreciate the difficulties that lay in front of us in this year just passed, in this year, FY '21. So standing here a year ago giving the Annual General Meeting for FY '20 and I talked then about the problems ahead, who could have imagined the difficulties? Who could have imagined, even if you're in Australia, that Victoria and New South Wales might have been closed 2 months ago? And this is what we face as a business. And it's easy to say that a year back from where we sit today that it could have usually been a disaster for us. But the results were magnificent by anybody's standards. We had growth in the U.S. of 49%. We had growth in the EU over 50%. We had growth in Australia, 25% with all of the problems about getting surgeons and getting into hospitals. And how do we do that? How do we come to do that? And we clearly had to pivot. In many hospitals, there is no entry. And sometimes, it's patchy. We didn't know where it was. Maybe they'll close in Louisiana this month, Florida next month. Maybe they'll close in New South Wales this month but not in Victoria. And so we had to pivot very quickly as a team, and we've met surgeons outside of hospitals, e-mails, phone calls but more particularly, made a very, very good effort with webinars. And for those of you who haven't seen it, please do yourself a favor and go on to our website and have a look at some of the key opinion leader videos we've got, not just used for you as shareholders but for training for medical purposes. And you'll be blown away, I'm sure, about what that's done. But standing here a year ago at the FY '20 AGM, I talked about things like sales not really -- having really taken off in the U.K. yet. We had people on the ground. We had people on the ground in Germany, and that was going quite well. But one of the things I mentioned, slightly tongue-in-cheek, but I meant that at the time was that the leading indicator of sales in these markets is clinical trials. And we had 6 or 8 going, if I remember rightly, in the U.K. We had 30 going in Western Europe. And I said at the time and I meant it that maybe people are keeping things from me, but I haven't seen a trial happen where the doctor at the end of it, the surgeon at the end of it doesn't say I'm going to use this now. The results are spectacular. I'm extremely happy with them, and that is, in fact, what happened. So even though a year ago, I was bemoaning the fact that we were paying our reps in Ireland and in England and the sales weren't as fast as I would have hoped, in this last year and more particularly just in the last 3 months -- you'll see the release we put out the other day. But the U.K. sales were up 300%. The EU sales were roughly up 200%. The U.S., on the other hand, was still patchy, up 21%. But all in all, I think the results for FY '21 and also for the first 3 months of this year have been spectacular. They're not the 100% type growth we saw in '20, but look what we had to face. And at the same time, this is coming off. So we're growing and we're building the infrastructure for the future. So we've continued to sign distributors. In this year, we signed Finland. We signed Taiwan. We signed Belgium, The Netherlands, Greece, Turkey, Poland, Italy. We're about to sign, we hope, Cyprus and Czechoslovakia, and we've clearly got in our sights the next calendar year places like France and Canada. And we've done a lot of audit work on Canada to get in there in the next 12 months and so forth. So we continue to build our distributors. We continue to build our accounts. Our accounts are up 56% year-on-year in terms of new hospitals we're selling to. We've continued to build our staff. And in the U.S. alone, for example, I think we've put on 6 or 7 in the last 4 months. They're now trained and going into new jurisdictions and so forth. So whilst we've -- there's been plenty of headwinds that come with COVID, we know it's coming off. We're still getting fantastic growth rates, but we're sort of building to the future so that when it really does come off, we're going to go pretty hard. I think the other thing that's happened this year that people should think about is that, 2 years ago, we just talked about burns and we're starting to talk about wounds. The use of the BTM is now across the board. You're seeing it used in amputations. You're seeing it used in venous leg ulcers, in diabetic foot ulcers. You're seeing it used in all sorts of burns and wounds and cosmetics. And we're getting to the stage where we can no longer afford to have one of our salesmen going to -- let's say, for example, we used the University of California Los Angeles Hospital, seeing the burns and wound surgeon coming out and then going to the hospital at University of San Diego. We've now got a reason why they can go from one floor to the next. Go and see the guy in diabetics. Go and see the guy in oncology. Go and see the guy in amputations, et cetera, et cetera. So the breadth of our product range and how it's being grasped by the surgeons, oftentimes on their own, not oftentimes because we've driven it proactively but because they've driven it proactively. And again, I point you to our website, which, again, will blow you away, used widely by doctors. As a consequence of that, we had a pretty good year financially, and you'll see I've already noted this in the last time I talked to you, but we've now stuck our head up into profits. So if you take out the nonfund items in terms of share-based payments and FX and so forth, we just broke even. So for a company that's only -- didn't really have a product 4 years ago, we didn't have any sales to be in a position where we've got significant growth in sales and tapping on the door of profitability, I think, is a magnificent achievement for us. I can go on for some time -- but sorry, the other thing I should have said because there is still talk -- loose talk about do we need a capital raising and so forth, but if you're making profits, that speaks for itself. So if you looked at our December balance of cash at bank versus our 30th of June balance cast at bank, it was actually slightly up, not down. So we're not a typical burn rate that you're going to see with a lot of startups. Notwithstanding, we're spending money -- a lot of money on R&D now and on clinical trials and the like. I thought one thing I might just do, and this is a bit of a risk for me, but there's a lot of talk around about our share price. And I suppose the loosest talk I get is from people who say, "Hey, David what happened to the share price? It was $4 a couple of months ago, and now it's $2." And I just wanted to -- not to turn this into a corporate finance lecture but perhaps just give you something to think about. And what I've got is a graph here, which has 2 things on it. The blue graph is the short position in our stock. The blue graph is people who have shorted our stock, typically, people who don't own the stock have come to somebody like you but more likely a big institution [ sector ], "I'll borrow your stock, and I'll pay you a sort of return on interest for it." And they borrow the stock and they sell it. And they sell it because they're bidding against the stock. They think the share price is going to come down. So that's the blue line. I'll come back to it in a moment. And the green line is what's happened to our share price. And just for your interest, I thought you might just like to reflect on this. On the left-hand side of this graph is roughly where we had our AGM last year. And as you can see, I've got the share price on the right-hand axis and the short-selling percentage on the left-hand axis. But on the right-hand axis, you'll see that at last year's AGM, the share price was roughly, as you can see there, depending on when our AGM was but, let's say, $2.50 just for argument's sake. And as you can see, if you follow that green line up, it goes up in a very short period of time up to sort of mid-Jan sort of thing, and it hits $4. And then it comes off significantly back down to around $2.50, where it bounces around a bit, goes up slightly, comes down a bit. And then more recently, in July, August, September this year, as you can see, it comes off the $2.50 and it goes down to just below $2 where it is today. And what I want you to do is just see what's happening to our short stock because I think people look at that $4 and thought, well, gee, what happened to the fundamentals of the business. Did the business fall in a hole? No. As you can see on the blue line, at last year's AGM, we were 6% or 7% shorted. That is somebody had taken some -- borrowed some stock, sold them to somebody, and we were something like 7% of our stock short sold. Now that's people betting against the stock. Now I can't read exactly off this. We're at 6.5% or 7% or what. But it's a big number. And at that stage, it was probably pretty close to a top 10 shorted stock on the ASX. The meeting itself was quite bullish because we had very good growth in the U.S., and so I imagine, this is me guessing, that some of those people who had shorted the stock thought, "Gee, I'm going to have to buy back that stuff pretty quick because I'm going to have to give it back to the person I borrowed it off." So what they start doing is they start buying stock back in the market. And as you can see, the blue line drops off very quickly. People are buying back their stock in order to repay it, no doubt. And as you can see, it goes from over 6% in a 1.5 months down to Jan under 2%. Now imagine how much stock you have to buy back if you're 6% or 7% short. To buy 5% or 6% of a $1 billion-plus company, you're in the market probably trying to buy $60 million, $70 million worth of stock. And what does that do? It drives the share price up. And so the share price spike to $4 is much about because this -- because it is buying back of the shorters trying to cover their position, and it gets down under 2%. By that stage, the stock's $4. So shorters are now looking at it again going, "Gee, this is too expensive. I might sell some of those at $4. I'm going to hope that I can buy them back at $2 much or $3 or whatever it happens to be." And so what happens then is you start selling again as the blue line rises. And as you can see, it goes all the way up past 5%, and it drives the share price down again. So I can go through this -- the whole, but I don't want to turn it into a corporate finance lecture. But what I wanted to show you is that there's quite a few people betting on the ups and downs of the stock and particularly on the downs, and that is causing quite a lot of volatility in the market. Now in our own time, we can have a much longer discussion about where the price really should be, what can you read out of that and so forth. But don't think that we got the $4 and somehow the company didn't perform. You can see with your own eyes what's happening in terms of people buying and selling shares and what it's doing to the share price. And these numbers are huge in companies worth $1 billion plus. Trying to buy $50 million, $60 million, $100 million worth of shares in the market can only have 1 effect. All right. As I said, I didn't want to turn that into a corporate finance lecture, but I just wanted to top and tail what I had to say about what I think has been a fantastic year for FY '21 and what I think has started off very well for FY '22. I hope I haven't taken too much of Paul's script, but I'd now like you -- to introduce you to Paul Brennan, the Managing Director of PolyNovo. Paul?

Good afternoon, everybody, and thank you for your attendance.at this AGM. Virtual AGMs are very different in interaction, and we always enjoy the face-to-face personal touch. So I'm looking forward to next year when we can be in one room with all of you again, and we're going to have some of those chats that I'm used to. They're very enjoyable. The past year, as David said, has been very challenging not just for us but for everybody in society. And running a global business from a remote base is not easy. But despite these challenges, we've had a lot of positive news and achievements with our team growth and our rapid and significant changes in the way in which we conduct the business. So I think in summary, the highlights for '21, and I'll get to '22 shortly, but just to recap on last year with the U.S. up 49%, distribution sales in Europe up 53%. We doubled the U.S. sales team. We're currently doubled the U.K. Irish team. We completed the Unit 1 factory build and the commissioning of all those new production machines. And we've expanded the R&D team and also the production teams. So that's led us to have the ability to manufacture several thousand Syntrel hernia devices, which are being used in laboratory and animal studies. Capping all of that off, we returned to small profit, excluding the noncash items. So I think by any measure, that's an outstanding result in a pandemic when you consider that this, time last year in the U.S., there were 4,000 deaths a day. Today in the media, that's 1,200 deaths a day in the U.S. So it's a significant improvement. Sales revenue for FY '21 was $25.5 million for NovoSorb BTM sales and now $3.7 million in BARDA funding for the pivotal clinical trial, which totaled $29.3 million. The revenues for FY '22 have started strongly, particularly at June, July, August was strong and September was a bit softer, but the group revenue for that first quarter is $8.05 million. Further, we're having high volume growth in purchase orders. So the small and intermediate products are taking more of a percentage pie. So our large 20x40 sheets in our total revenue now are making up around 47%. So that's a positive trend in that we need to get more sustainable, predictable revenues from elective surgery and the smaller cases because their volume is significantly higher. So it's encouraging to see these sizes grow. And I'll cover all the regions separately shortly. But this increase in our number of accounts, the geographical spread, the expansion of the sales team, these are all the fundamentals that are giving us confidence and a surety that as we'll be going forward, we do have a strong business that post COVID will continue to grow very strongly in the rebound. It's been a rapid journey over the last 5 years and a significant need for change. Our team have grown, and the talent and capacity within the team will continue to improve. But the U.S. business itself, they achieved a growth in FY '21 against that COVID backdrop. And the impact on a hospital system was significant, and yet they grew the U.S. sales by 49%, doubled the sales team, signed 3 GPOs and opened 44 new accounts. That's a very impressive outcome for our team who very quickly got shut down in the lockdowns that you've all been experiencing. What these numbers do not show is the pivot our team made in their approaches. That includes recruitment, induction of staff, training, surgeon and customer engagement, clinical support, trade shows moving online and webinar development. All of this happened in a very short space of time and very effectively. Now these activities remain staples of the business ongoing. They're part of our new environment of how you do business, and it's a very positive change for the long term. This pandemic is abating. And as we go forward with increasing hospital access, we will continue to have some challenges from the Delta variant in the unvaccinated population. And we're seeing that, particularly in Southern U.S.A. and more recently this week in Wyoming, Montana and Alaska. Thankfully, those 3 states are not pivotal for our business and vastly populated. July and August were good sales performing months, and September, as I said, was a little bit softer. But the number of purchase orders has significantly grown. So the first quarter of FY '22, the U.S. team have added another 16 new accounts and a record number of purchase orders of -- in September of 131 individual purchase orders, which is a really good trend to see and sets us up well for the future. We'll continue to work on further GPO agreements. And we have moved Kevin Hayes into focusing directly on GPOs, and we've also built a series of internal financial dashboards tracking GPO activity against CRM activity, et cetera. The U.S. diabetic foot ulcer trial for reimbursement has completed the first 10 patients. And out of that, within 6 weeks, 7 of the 10 patients had complete closure, which is an outstanding result. The remaining 3 patients showed significant rates of closure but have not reached full closure, and this is normal in diabetic foot ulcer physiology. The surgeons involved are extremely excited about the product. The next phase that we will do in this is finalizing the CRO and protocol to go to ethics committees. And we anticipate to enroll the patients in early '22. And those patients will be concluded in about a 7-month period. So we'll meet our goal of reimbursement submissions in advance of 2024. For the BARDA pivotal trial, we have 2 patients currently enrolled. We've got 16 active sites, and we've got another 4 in the U.S. there to come onstream. And then we will start on the 5 Canadian sites being contracted in. So we still anticipate this process take 3 years, but both BARDA and ourselves are very pleased with the progress of this trial. For Australia and New Zealand, the border closure has been extremely difficult with travel. However, we've adjusted to this with employing Penny in Western Australia, and that's enabled us to grow our Western Australian business. And we've continued our growth in New Zealand despite the lockdowns. So Australian hospital capacity, for particularly in New South Wales and Victoria, looks like it's going to be constrained to some extent probably until March of '22. However, we've still seen good sales and good performance in some significant hospitals throughout the lockdown period. We've also had significant growth in the private hospital market in elective surgeries in a wide range of indications. And this is a fantastic work and effort and like to call out Lyndall, our salesperson in New South Wales, in particular, for her spectacular efforts in her account acquisitions there. And as I said, we've increased the sales team in Victoria and Western Australia with the addition of Chloe in Victoria. And we anticipate further growth in Australia and New Zealand on the rebound of COVID opening up. For Asia, I'll start with Singapore where we go direct. What's been very interesting in Singapore is the high use in elective surgeries. So there's a wide range of chronic and acute elective surgery wins where we're having a very good uptake in Singapore. And we've even got Singaporean surgeons on the cusp of publishing some of their results of their use of BTM in the last 12 months, so a very good performance in Singapore, but we don't see large bands in Singapore. It's a very controlled environment. If anybody has been to Singapore, they'll be aware of that. Taiwan has achieved sales already, and we've introduced the 5x5 size to Taiwan, and they see great opportunity for the chronic wound space in Taiwan. I should add those 5x5s are also on sale in the U.K. and Ireland at the moment, and Italy and Germany have also taken on the 5x5s. India with my Myovatec Systems as a distributor have delivered sales in the north. And what we're working on there is the opportunity to partner with some other distributors in the South to reach some of the areas where Myovatec been slow to advance our market penetration. So we're looking at how we can augment and accelerate our Indian business, and we'll keep you abreast of that as we move forward. There will be other markets coming onstream, as David's alluded to and Cyprus and Czechoslovakia are soon. We are obviously still working on some of the others with the terms of the distribution and the capacity of those distributors in other markets, and we'll announce those in due course. The distributor sales for FY '21 were up 53%. And the strong growth in Europe and very difficult COVID conditions has been very good. But life in Europe is relatively normal. Our U.K. team report, really, the only time they wear a mask now is getting on a plane, and their life is normal, and they're in theaters. They're doing face-to-face trade shows. They've even gone to trade shows in Finland in the last couple of months and getting some leads. So we will have some better expansion on the back of [ all of this in ] France, Spain and Portugal being our high-priority markets. So we're looking forward to bringing those onstream. Our manufacturing facility here in Unit 1 has been completed and all the machines validated. And I'd like to thank all of our team here at PolyNovo, particularly the R&D team, who have to learn some pretty amazing engineering skills in the last year to commission these machines. And it hasn't been an easy process, but these are now up and running and working and manufacturing finished goods essentially. So for our research and development pipeline, with the Syntrel VP, we've manufactured several thousand of these products, validation purposes, and they're being used in a big study at the moment, which is in progress. And the data from this study will support not only the hernia device but also breast and many other devices that might be NovoSorb foam and film combination. Research and development is not a straight-forward process. So the purpose of these studies is to look at the performance in a clinical setting in their intended use but also misuse. And the things that we discover in these trials will inform what we do with product designs but also might give us opportunity for new products that we might not have considered. For the breast product development, we'll benefit from a lot of the learnings of the hernia studies. We've employed a dedicated marketer to assist in gathering end-user design inputs, and we're establishing an advisory board on that design input from the clinical interface. And we'll provide a more detailed time estimate probably in the half year results period in February. For the BetaCell diabetes program, the BetaCell team in South Australia informed us that they will be starting human trials of Type 1 diabetes and the use of NovoSorb BTM as a depot, that islet cell implantation. And that trial will start within the next 2 months. They've identified the types of patients they'll be using -- pardon me, which are patients who are Type 1 diabetics have had a renal transplant and are immunosuppressed. That de-complicates the analysis of results because the underlying condition is already a solid baseline. So the Adelaide team will keep us informed, but they've got their funding secured from the Juvenile Diabetes Foundation of the U.S.A. So that's moving along quite well. We're also looking at launching NovoSorb foam just as a foam product for use in cavities, wounds and tissue layering. And it would also enable us to have what's called a one-stage closure where you could put a 1-millimeter thick piece of foam on a freshly debrided area and put a skin graft immediately over the top. So there's no sealing membrane on this. And it's an exciting market opportunity for us, and we're in the early days of that project. I'm happy to take questions at the end. But I'll hand back to David, but thank you all for your support and particularly thank you to all the PolyNovo staff and teams who have really stepped up to the plate during lockdown and with travel restrictions and all the traumas that this brings, and they've done a spectacular job. And even though sometimes we haven't hit everything that every analyst in the world would like us to hit, I'm very proud of the achievements of the PolyNovo team. Thank you, David. Back to you.

Thank you, Paul. Jan, you're -- the -- filtering the questions as they come in verbal or otherwise. Are there any questions for Paul and myself?

There's 5 questions at the moment. So the first question, what is the target budgeted expected annual revenue for this financial year?

I might let Paul or you answer that.

Jan, perhaps our CFO.

Sure, I can answer that. Thought I'd try to you first. So we haven't put out a number as such. As you know, we don't disclose that. And of course, in terms of growth, if we look at last year, as I mentioned with the full year results, we're looking at significantly having an uplift on that growth rate that we achieved during FY '21. Hope that helps. But we haven't disclosed our revenue target for this year. But there are analyst reports out there that you can refer to.

And those analyst reports cover a range that we're very comfortable with, and that's the goal to meet those targets.

Our next question?

Yes. Regarding the DFU trial and the anticipated date of 2024 submission to insurers for reimbursement, would you please provide more details about the time line when trials are expected to be completed and when first sales are expected and help explain why this time line is so far out?

Well, as I said, we'd be starting the DFU trial of patients. There will be 100 patients in that next take 7 months. So that should be completed sometime around September of '22. Those results then get compiled or followed up, and health economic studies get written, clinical studies get written and then they get submitted to the insurers. Currently, the way that reimbursement insurance system works in the U.S. is that you have to have all your data in by the October. So our goal is to get it in by the October of '22, if possible, and that may bring that time line forward. But there are 9 insurers. So in total, it could be anywhere throughout calendar year '23 that we could achieve reimbursement sales. So it's really in the hands of the insurers and how they process their meetings and the products that they're reviewing. So it'll be sometime in calendar year '23. Start of '24, we should definitely be having sales in market by '24. So that's why that time line's set, but it may be earlier.

Thanks, Paul. Next question, notwithstanding sensational margins, can you talk about what, if any, movement you can foresee going forward?

What do you mean by movement?

Well, I think the question is more around margins and if that will change because they're quite high at the moment, and I can help answer that question if you like, Paul.

Yes. Go for it, Jan.

Margins will -- yes, margins, we'll expect to be as they have been for the year that just passed. We expect that to occur for the half and for the full year. We're increasing some prices in the U.S., which does have an uplift in margin impact and the U.S. is the biggest market overall, keeping that in mind. Distributor sales are at a slightly lower margin but still quite -- really high. So overall, it will be a mixed bag that will retain -- I think will retain a high margin in the low 90s to mid-90s over the short to medium term.

We are working on yield and waste reductions and some other programs as part of our ESG. And so you'll see some movements there, but we're making very good margins. And our focus as a business is to be efficient in production, increase our volume and sweat the assets essentially and to get more productivity out of each shift that we're running. So currently, we're around 2 shifts 5 days a week. Obviously, got the capacity to go to 3 shifts 7 days a week; but we see, for quite a duration, we'll be able to get significant volume growth out of our existing shift allocations and infrastructure. So I think that's where we'll see the movements, and I'm very confident that we've got a very solid and progressive business on that. Just talking on ESG, as we've outlined, we're anticipating being carbon neutral by Christmas. So that will be a significant step change for us as we achieve an environmental goal that others have been some distance from.

All right. Thanks, Paul. Next question. Can you talk about any traction PolyNovo has had with GPO sales?

Yes. As I alluded to, there have been dashboard set up to track the sales. We've got many hundreds of thousands of dollars of sales now into GPOs. Account acquisitions continue through the GPO networks. We've moved Kevin Hayes from a Sales Director in the South to be dedicated in more core strategic accounts, which is the GPOs. And Kevin -- we'll put more stuff in with Kevin to manage those GPO accounts and activities. So his role is to drive from the top down with the GPOs, while the sales team and the sales directors in the regions are pulling sales through from the bottom. So it's grown quite nicely, but now we'll have the opportunity to grow that even faster.

Great. Thanks, Paul. A few more questions. What is different today compared to earlier this year, for example, that has caused the 18- to 24-month delay in the rollout of the hernia product?

Well, we covered that at the half year. There's been getting the factory done and getting finished goods off validated machines. So the regulatory process is the product that you use in trials has to be the product that you're going to use in market. So you can't do that until you can physically make the product. So we've got a finished factory. We've got commission machines, and we've pumped those products out. As I've outlined in my speech, we've made a couple of thousand products to do some bench testing and destruction and animal studies. So that's the reason. We had significant COVID delays with supply of machines, commissioning of machines and delays in building a factory.

Thanks, Paul. Next question, what will a successful BARDA trial mean for PolyNovo in a commercial sense?

In a commercial sense, the real upside is bragging rights in that you've got a product that's got an on-label claim for full thickness burns. The other thing is that BARDA is a -- Biological Advanced Research Development Authority (sic) [ Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority ] is what it stands for. And their brief was to have a stockpile of product that could be used in a mass thermal burn disaster. So if you look at the U.S. burns over 20% total body surface area, there's around about 330 in a year. So if somebody lit off a large bomb in a major city, you may have thousands of people that are burnt in a day. So what they're looking for is a nonbiologic that's an extended shelf life, that can be stockpiled and readily deployed throughout multiple hospital sites, where they could spread the patients to be treated as fast as possible. So the upside for us will be the U.S. government buying a stockpile of product. And the other one is that we'll then be 1 of only 2 dermal matrices in the U.S. with the PMA claim of full thickness burn, the only other one being Integra's IDRT product. So just to be clear to all of you out there, there's 20 or 30 different tissue scaffolds used by surgeons on burns. They all got the same 510(k) as NovoSorb BTM does today. So it's really the bragging rights that we're the gold standard of the synthetic up against what's been the standard for 20 years of biologics, the Integra IDRT. So our commercial opportunity is extending the uptake of skeptical surgeons into burns because we'll have that on-label claim and all of the data to support their decision and the stockpile.

Thanks, Paul. Next question, David might be able to answer. As a publicly listed company, is there any reason why you don't provide revenue targets for the following year?

Look, I mean, many publicly listed companies don't provide revenue targets for the following year. But in this case, even though we've now got quite extensive footprints in different jurisdictions, they're still patchy in the sense that it's lumpy. And I mean, I'll give you one example that for -- I think in July, and I'm making these numbers up. Jan, you'll correct me if I'm wrong. But in July, I think our revenue growth in the U.S. was 150% year-on-year. Then it was 50% in August. So you come out on a weekly basis or come out on a monthly basis, and I have these huge spikes in terms of performance. And until we get a much more consistent footprint across these jurisdictions and across countries, we'll be reluctant to seeing out those targets and to release information on a more regular basis.

Right. Thanks, David. Next question, to what extent has elective surgery opened up in the various U.S. states and mainland Europe?

Mainland Europe is pretty much open. It's individual hospitals, whether they've got capacity with COVID blockage or not. So for example, in Louisiana, there's been some blockage of hospital beds because of COVID patients that may localize in some of the Texas hospitals. But it's individual hospitals. It's not the whole state. So our sales in Texas for the first quarter of FY '22 were actually very healthy. But there are some individual hospitals within Texas who have been slow to uptake BTM because they haven't had the throughput capacity. So there's no longer the broad brush of regions not doing elective. It's more the individual by hospital case.

Thanks, Paul. Next question is, any update on replacement of the Chief Operating Officer?

We're still looking. There's not a lot of Chief Operating Officers who have worked in the medical device area in Melbourne. So it's an active process. We do have some candidates currently in train. So we're hoping to have that -- close that as soon as possible.

Thanks, Paul. We have an audio question from Paul Fanning at the Australian Shareholders' Association. If, Lumi, you could please patch Paul through. Thanks.

Can I be heard at your end?

Yes. Paul, we can hear you.

I'm Paul Fanning representing the Australian Shareholders' Association. This is the first year that we, the association, have monitored PolyNovo, following on behalf of individual shareholders. We are in receipt of proxies to the tune of about 750,000 votes, and we'll be voting them accordingly. Look, thank you, Paul, for the -- both reports given. Truly, this is a growth company, and we're very impressed by what we have seen to date. And we have actually done -- we, I'd say, have done a lot of analysis on PolyNovo to date. Look, like with all companies that we monitor, we always have some focus issues that we want to look at. And I'd like you to, either the Chair or [ Mike ] to perhaps address. And in a way, December, 2 Board directors and Paul concurrently sold shares in late November and at around the price of $4. PolyNovo issued a trading update on the 12th of January this year, which triggered a precipitous drop in the share price from $3.39 on Monday, 11th of January, to $2.68 on Wednesday, the 13th. And I may observe, since then, the share price has not recovered. This sequence of events has triggered an inquiry from the ASX, matters concerning the wording of the trading update, the timing of the trading of shares by these Board members and senior management. How does the company operate corporate governance? What can you do better next time to perhaps avoid this type of precipitous drop in share value and also start share trading policies which may or may not be related to pending news? I thank you for the opportunity to ask a question.

I'll answer that. Look, we've got pretty strict trading policies in place in terms of approval to buy and sell shares, depending on who you are, whether it's me, whether it's one of the other directors and whether it's signed up by the CFO and the Head of the Audit Committee or whatever. And that happened in this case. One of the difficulties, Paul, in this company is that there's a lot of surprises in terms of what happens to earnings that we don't see even at the start of a month, and I'll give you an example. In the U.S., for example, we can be way behind budget for the first 2 weeks or 3 weeks. But it's very common in the U.S. for all the sales to sort of stream in, in the last week of any month. And so trying to pick those things in advance does lead to some surprises, as it did in this case because we have a sort of fail-safe mechanism, we hope, by getting approval from the Head of the Audit Committee or the Chairman or the CFO. The ASX, of course, quite rightly asked some questions because of the proximity to the announcement, and that's the end of it as far as we're concerned and probably as far as they're concerned. So I can't say anything more than that, Paul.

Great. Thanks. We got another question, which is, can you explain how revenue is booked? If you had 131 orders in September, will this revenue expect to hit in October and November? Or do you book the revenue in the month the order occurs? I can answer that. It's once the goods are shipped and received by the customer, the invoice is raised. And that's when the revenue is booked. Next question, when can shareholders expect quarterly sales reports with numbers and percentages?

Well, as you know, Jan, we don't report quarterly. And I think I started to answer this with Paul from the Australia Shareholders' Association as well. There is a question always of us, this tension between can you tell us how you're going versus getting more certainty on quarterly or half yearly numbers. So we've sort of waxed and waned on this. We got asked this question at the last AGM as well, and I undertook then to provide more regular updates in terms of what's happening to sales and so forth. But in the answer I just gave before about what we observed in July versus what happened in August versus what happened in September, there are huge swings. And as much as I -- I was tempted when I saw the numbers in July to update the market on what was happening with U.S. sales. But to be honest, I'm glad I didn't because the next month was not down, but the percentage was not up as great. So we're not -- we don't -- we're not required to give quarterlies and -- but we may report more regularly and even quarterly, depending on how much depth we get in our data set.

All right. Thanks. One last question, I think, before we move on. In terms of stockpiling PNV's product, what is the approximate shelf life? And also, do storage facilities need to be purpose-built or have specialized requirements?

The stock has a 3-year shelf life. Storages play at 25 degrees Celsius, standard with medical warehousing around the world. So we use 3PLs. They've got all that infrastructure there, no news there. Everything is very much business as normal.

Yes.

I mean, one point you may have missed all of this, I missed it, just tangentially on that is our new arrangements in Belgium for supplying the whole of Western Europe. And that seems to be going very well, certainly into Germany. And we're about to roll that out to other countries in Western Europe as well.

I do have another question, David. Gender equity on the leadership team of the Board is poor. What is the company -- why is the company not taking the opportunity to address this imbalance?

Paul, do you want to answer that? I mean, you've got the numbers and...

Well, the various Board members have different levels of holding. I've got a significant holding as do some others. So...

You get the gender question, Paul.

Gender, sorry.

Regarding gender on the Board.

Equity. Yes. Well, currently, we've got 2 females on our Board, obviously. And we'll always look for the best talent when we're having new directors appointed. Andrew, for example, who's new to the business and you'll be voting on shortly, came through, through the pedigree of his background, and I'll leave him to talk to that. But we actively do look for female directors as well. And within our business, we do have a wide number of female managers. So we're very proud of our diversity. We published that in the half year report. You can see both the gender and the ethnicity mix of our staff across the business. And we'll continue to work on that. It's a very positive active program that we've got.

Right. Thanks, Paul. No further questions at this stage.

Wonderful. Well, thank you, everybody, for those questions. And thank you, Paul, from the Australian Shareholders' Association, who set a new world record of having asked the first question verbally at one of these meetings. So congratulations on that. I'm going to move on to the formal part of the meeting. And just to reiterate about casting your votes, as I mentioned at the start of the meeting, voting on the resolutions is currently open. And you can vote at any time until I declare the voting closed. The results will not be updated on the screen but will be updated at the conclusion of the meeting and then released to the ASX. Please note that only shareholders, proxyholders and shareholder reps can vote. Any directed proxies given to you by [Audio Gap] When voting is closed, your final voting selection will be recorded. If you've got any difficulties with this, ring Computershare on their help line 9415 4024. I'd like to move on to the formal resolutions then. Put the voting up on the screen, just for your better interest. I advised at the beginning of the meeting, we'll vote on the resolutions by way of a poll. I intend to vote any undirected proxy votes given to the Chairman in favor of resolutions 3 through to 6 and against resolution 7, which is a spill motion. Voting is already open and will remain open during the discussions on the resolutions. I will provide you with notice that the polls are about to close. We'll now move on to consider the first resolution, which is the reelection of the director, Mr. Bruce Rathie, who I'm going to call on in a second to say a few words. Mr. Rathie retires by rotation and, being eligible, offers himself for reelection. I put forward the following resolution to the meeting as an ordinary resolution that Mr. Bruce Rathie, being a director of the company, who retires in accordance with clause 59 of PolyNovo's constitution and being eligible, is reelected as a director. Before I put that motion and go to any questions, I'd like to invite Mr. Rathie to say a few words about himself. Bruce?

Thank you, David. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. During my 20 years of nonexecutive director experience, I have focused on working with and assisting emerging Australian technology companies seeking to commercialize products in international markets. I'm especially motivated to work with companies whose technologies will make a material difference to the lives of its user customers. PolyNovo, with its CSIRO-originated technology, is a great example of such a company. PolyNovo is just at the start of its commercialization journey, and I believe I can add material value as PolyNovo rolls its BTM and other products out in overseas markets. I'd be most grateful if shareholders would allow me to make that contribution to what I believe to be an extremely bright future for the company. Thank you, Chairman.

Thank you, Bruce. Very interesting. Few things Bruce didn't say about himself, I think, is that, one, after Philip Powell retired, Bruce kindly stepped in to be Head of the Audit Committee. And he's done a fantastic job doing that. And secondly, he's one of the oldest serving members on the Board. And so he brings with him some history that's been useful as the Board grows and the company transitions. Is there any questions on this resolution? Jan, do you have any questions for Bruce or myself on it?

No questions, David.

Thank you. For the purpose of taking all proxies into account and ensuring that the votes are counted accurately, I direct that a poll will be taken on this item. I'd now like to move on to item 4 on the Notice of Meeting, which is the election of Mr. Andrew Lumsden, otherwise known as Andy. Mr. Andrew Lumsden was appointed a director on 4 June 2021 and retires in accordance with the company's constitution and, being eligible, offers himself for election. I put the following resolution to the meeting as an ordinary resolution that Mr. Andrew Lumsden, being a director of the company who is -- in accordance with clause 58 of PolyNovo's constitution and being eligible, is reelected as a director. Before I proceed on that, I'd like to ask Andy to say a few words about yourself and what he's done so far on the Board.

Thanks, David, and good afternoon, everyone. As David said, my name is Andy Lumsden, and I joined the Board in June. I'm currently a chartered accountant, a chartered company secretary and a member of the Institute of Directors. My current role outside of PolyNovo is I'm the CEO of Wellcom Group in Australasia, which is a marketing services company. I was formally the CFO for Wellcom for around 6 or 7 years while we were a public company listed on ASX. And prior to that, I spent about 8 years with PricewaterhouseCoopers both in the U.K. and in Australia. Subject to shareholder approval today, I'd be excited to join the Board proper and contribute in any way I can to the continued success of what I see, and as Bruce mentioned, a business which has the ability to significantly improve the lives of a number of individuals.

Beautiful. Thank you, Andy. Andy mentioned, of course, that he's got a charted accounting background, and he's immediately joined the Audit Committee and probably will take over running the Audit Committee in due course as well. So he brings a lot of skills that we need to assist Bruce Rathie in that. He also didn't mention that his office is only just down the road from PolyNovo. So one of my thought processes when we put him on was that he could be a great help to Jan Gielen, our CFO and company secretary, in close proximity, similar age, although as you did hear, he is Scottish. So we have added to the cultural diversity of the Board slightly, and that's a big plus as well. Is there any discussion on this resolution? Are there any questions, Jan?

Not on this resolution, but there is a question that's come through on Bruce's resolution -- election, if I could ask that -- if I could pass that. So that's an audio question from Paul Fanning of Australian Shareholders'...

Just a second, Jan. Just to -- we'll just finish this one off first. So for the purpose of -- we've heard from Andy. And for the purpose of taking all proxies into account and ensuring that the votes are counted accurately, I direct a poll will be taken on this item. That's done. Let me go backwards now to Bruce Rathie. Paul, you've got ahead yourself. Two questions, it's unheard of.

It's an audio question. If you can patch him through, please, Lumi.

Am I able to speak? Yes.

Of course. Go ahead.

Okay. Look, I'd like to speak in regard to item 3, the reelection of Bruce Rathie as a director, as -- on behalf of the Australian Shareholders' Association. The Australian Shareholders' Association, I may inform, has a policy for directors to be -- remain independent. And the length of longevity that Mr. Rathie has given to the Board has been tremendous and has been a great asset to the company, of which we applaud. However, the ASA has guidelines that once a Board member reaches 12 years on the Board, we consider that to be nonindependent. We also consider Mr. Rathie's workload as slightly excessive, he holding 2 chairs and 2 other executive director roles. And we wonder if the Board is able to address this issue because clearly, we represent retail shareholders, and we are voice that tries to articulate their feelings and aspirations.

Okay. Thank you, Paul. I'm not sure if that required a response. But as the Chairman, Bruce and I have a continuing dialogue, as I do with other directors about their workload and their performance on the Board. We have our Board rating system that we do of each other, a 360 rating system. But Bruce, in particular, and I have talked about his workload and how he's coping and how he's contributing to the PolyNovo Board. And as you quite rightly said, his contribution has been enormous, and it's been over a long period of time. And at the moment, I certainly feel that he's got something more to add. And he, I know, is -- each directorship he takes or gets rid of is -- reassesses his situation as we go. So I think I'm pretty happy with this position at the moment, but thank you for your comments. I'm going to move on to item number -- sorry, are you still there, Paul?

He's gone.

Okay. I'm going to move on to the Managing Director's long-term incentive plan, item 5 on the Notice of Meeting. The resolution to approve the amendments to the Managing Director's long-term incentive plan is proposed for the purpose of Listing Rule 10.11. A voting exclusion statement applies to this resolution that's outlined in the notice of Annual General Meeting. However, the directors recommend that shareholders vote in favor of this resolution. I put the following resolution as an ordinary resolution that the amendment to the Managing Director's long-term incentive plan is approved. Is there any discussion on this resolution, Jan?

No questions at this stage, David.

Okay. Just for completeness for everybody that's listening, there were some institutional shareholders, in particular, that voted against the rem report last year. And one of their objections was that they felt that -- there were 2 issues with the LTI as far as it was proposed. One is that a hurdle, the market cap hurdle as part of the LTI, could be earned not by just getting the share price up but by actually issuing shares. Quite correctly noted, I think. And the second one was that if the Managing Director did not make the LTI in a particular year, the amount that he could earn could be rolled forward into a second year. And I think some of the institutional shareholders felt, well, there should be some penalty for that. So that if it was earned, then it could be lost. And so we tried to blend. We've got rid of the increasing the market cap by issuing shares, and we've imposed a penalty on earning the LTI over a couple of years as well. I won't go into the details. It's in the annual meeting notes. So okay. Just for the purposes, there are no questions. For the purpose of taking all proxies into account, ensuring that the votes are counted accurately, I direct that a poll be taken on this item. The remuneration -- sorry.

Sorry, David. There is one question, if you are willing to answer at the moment, on the LTI.

Yes. Sure.

That's from Paul Fanning from the Australian Shareholders' Association. If you could patch him through, please, Lumi.

Thank you, David. I think I'll direct this question to you. And look, I'm speaking in regard to item 5, the amendment to the Managing Director's long-term incentive. Look, we applaud the Board for having made amendments to the LTI plan in a series of tranches. Look, we still find that the structure is very complex and awarding tranches of shares -- 3 blocks of tranches of shares and also it's an increased number of shares which is being proposed, we find that it makes it very difficult to really calculate a value of what the LTI is worth. Is it really based on the number of shares which are now going to be issued under the -- in the 3 tranches, at about 1.3 million each? Or is it really based on the share price? And also, the vesting is of a concern to us. There seem to be vesting -- to lots of vesting happening in 1 particular year, for example. So can you please give us a sense of how you've devised this modeling? Is it based on other companies in the same market sector? Or is it an idea that's derived from somewhere in the U.S., for example?

No. It didn't derive from somewhere in the U.S. It derived from the logic of what would shareholders really want to see, and shareholders want to see a lot of different things. But one of the primary ones they want to see is they want to see an increase in their wealth by holding shares in the company. And so a key plank of the LTI -- a lot of the soft stuff, by the way, is in STIs and so forth. But a key plank of the LTI is that the Managing Director needs to get the share price up, and the share price needs to stay up. And so it's based on hitting a market cap hurdle or a share price hurdle without the issuance of new capital,and having that share price stay up for at least 3 months in every trade. So we're not -- we want to take out the ability for the share price to spike to earn an LTI. And I would have thought that's a pretty direct measure of success for shareholders over and above the other things that we're doing on ESS (sic) [ ESG ] and diversity and so on and so forth. So that's the logic of it, Paul. The details of it are set out in the papers. But the other thing we've done, which I didn't say but I'll say it now anyway, is to really extend those escrow arrangements as well. So we're not only -- we've got 2 things in mind. One is to reward him if he generates wealth for shareholders, and the second one is to try and lock him in for a lot longer if those rewards are earned.

Right. Thanks, David. There's no other questions at this stage.

Thank you. So that was the Managing Director's long-term incentive plan, item 5. As I said, for the purpose of taking all proxies into account, ensuring that the votes are counted accurately, I direct that a poll is taken on that item. Item #6 is the rem report. This is potentially a second strike. This was voted against last year. But on the numbers, it looks like it's now going to be voted for. But the Corporations Act requires a remuneration report to be included in the annual report. Shareholders will be asked to vote to approve the report. Please note that this vote is not binding on the company, but the result will be taken into account by the Remuneration Committee when reviewing director and executive packages. A voting exclusion statement applies to this resolution and is outlined in the notice of Annual General Meeting. However, the directors recommend that shareholders vote in favor of the resolution. I'll put the resolution to the meeting that for the purposes of section 250R(2) of the Corporations Act, the remuneration report required by 300A of the Corporations Act as contained in the director's report for the year ended 30 June 2020 is adopted. I hereby move the resolution. I'll call on Bruce Rathie to second this firstly.

Of course, I second the adoption of the remuneration report, Mr. Chairman.

Okay. Is there any discussion on this item? Jan, any questions?

No questions, David.

Okay. Thank you. Paul, have you gone? I want the Australian Shareholders' Association to get maximum value for their money, Paul. If there's no discussion now, for the purpose of taking all proxies into account and ensuring that the votes are counted accurately, I direct that a poll is taken on this item. And then the final item is item #7, which is a spill resolution. And normally, we wouldn't need to do this, but the vote for the remuneration committee -- the remuneration report, I should say, is close. And in the -- to the extent that somebody might change their minds on how they vote as this meeting goes on, then I want to put it just for to bulletproof it in any case. The proxy votes received indicate that 76.27% of the votes cast for the remuneration report. But as I said, given the small margin between that and less than 75%, I prefer to put the spill motion to the meeting now just in case when we find out how all the votes have tallied up from the poll. As such...

Sorry, I do have a question once you get to the end, apologies, from Paul.

Okay. As such, I will now present resolution 7, the spill resolution to shareholders in accordance with the requirements under the Corporations Act. A voting exclusion statement applies to this resolution, as outlined in the notice of Annual General Meeting. However, the directors recommend that shareholders vote in -- against the resolution, against the spill motion. In other words, that there will not be a spill motion in 90 days. I put the following resolution to the meeting as an ordinary resolution that for the purpose of the Corporations Act, resolution 7, asks shareholders to vote on whether a Board's spill meeting should be held within 50 -- 90 days. There is discussion on this, mainly it's one question, is it, Jan?

There's one question on the rem report from Paul of the Australian Shareholders' Association, but no questions on the spill motion at this stage.

Okay. Thank you. Well, in that case, I'll finish this one then. Now for the purposes -- if there's no discussion on the spill motion, for the purpose of taking all proxies into account, ensuring that the votes are counted accurately, I direct that a poll will be taken on this item. I'm going to go backwards now to item #6, which is the rem report on the Notice of Meeting. And welcome back to the stage, Paul, from the Australian Shareholders' Association.

Thank you, David. Look, Paul Fanning, monitor for PolyNovo, Australian Shareholder's Association, again. Look, I'd like to make a couple of observations on behalf of retail shareholders for the Australian Shareholders' Association in terms of the remuneration report. Look, this report, we did the -- me being the monitor and my assistant monitor, we did very close analysis on the remuneration report. And while the rem structure is composed of a fixed annual compensation, many of them long-term incentives, that is LTI and also a short-term incentive plan, we still find the -- it's complex to be absorbed and understood fully by retail shareholders. We acknowledge that the biotechnology sector does not necessarily make a profit in the short to medium term. And when it does, it does well. But there's a long -- there's a considerable time pending. While the biotechnology sector is highly volatile, we know it's driven by market sentiment and inherently high risk. The direct link of compensation policy with key financial performance measures such as total shareholder return or net earnings per share or company revenue in view of the Board is much more suited to a more established business. However, we, the ASA, would like to see share-based payments or copay of using fair value by the Monte Carlo simulation method, not face value. STIs appear to be based on 100% cash payment rather than 50% cash and 50% deferred equity. So can I call on the Chair to please address our issue and how they could -- the complexity be reduced in the rem structure going forward as an enhancement to the annual report?

Thank you, Paul. Well, there's a lot to unpack there from a corporate finance perspective. But as I'm trying to simplify it for shareholders, I'm not sure I want to send them to the Monte Carlo method. But I would have thought shareholders that could get their head around pretty quickly the fact that we've issued options to people like Jan Gielen with a certain strike price, full stop, pretty simple to understand that, I think. This notion about total shareholder returns and EPS is, of course, a nonsense to us, as you quite rightly say, because we don't pay dividends. There is no total shareholder return. There is no EPS. We should soon be there, by the way. But aren't all these things surrogates in a way for what's happening with shareholder value? It's one thing -- even if we were profitable, it seems to me that if that's not reflected in what's happening to the share price and the total market capitalization of the company, then something is awfully wrong. So I think the way we've got it is simple. In fact, Paul, the only criticism we certainly get from some of the other institutions is that it's too simple. In other words, they want other added things into the LTI calculation other than just what's happening to market cap. I think the market cap is as simple as you can get it and as direct as you can get it. And so that's my answer to that. But I thank you for the question. We'll take it on board. There is a Remuneration Committee, which Christine and Leon and I sit on, and no doubt that it will go into the mix on that. We are considering it with respect to new hires such as CCO and COO. So it will get its place in that. Right. That's the conclusion of the voting. The voting is still open, but I propose to leave it only open now for another 2 minutes, at which time I'll close the voting and end the meeting. So if you've already voted and there won't be any more business to be discussed, you can go if you'd like. The only other thing I would just say is that last year, we taped these proceedings. I think we did it in video as well as audio. So it may well be that we'll package that up, that's just mine and Paul Brennan's talk, and release that to the ASX and to shareholders in due course. I think it took us a couple of days last time. No promise on that, but I think that's what we will intend to do in any case. Okay. So as I said, the voting is still open, if you could close off where you are. And in about a minute's time, I'm going to close the voting and close the meeting. And I thank you all for attending. It's been very enjoyable. We always seem to get quite a lot of questions and more than in other companies, and we certainly had a lot more verbal questions. Angela Liapis from Computershare will love this because she doesn't get to see that much action, right, Angela? So this will be one for the books. And the Australian Shareholders' Association certainly got their money's worth with 750,000 shareholders well represented here today by Paul. I am going to close the voting now, unless I cut it too short for anybody. And in closing the voting, again, thank you for coming. Thank you for your participation, and I'll see you at the half year. Bye for now.

Thanks, everybody.