Power Grid Corporation of India Limited ($POWERGRID)

Without much ado, we will start. We have on the [ dais ] with us our new Chairman and Managing Director, Shri B. Vamsi Rama Mohan; Shri G. Ravisankar, he's the Director of Finance, and he's also the CFO; Shri Dr. Yatindra Dwivedi, is Director of Personnel; and Shri Navin Srivastavaji, is the Director, Operations. I now request [ Satyaprakash Dash ], Company Secretary, to initiate the proceedings.

Thank you, [ Mukulji ] Good morning, everyone. I am pleased to welcome you all to this Institutional Investors and Analyst Meet today at Mumbai. Today, our senior management team will discuss the business and performance outlook of Power Grid. Based on the recently announced financial results of Power Grid, that is the final result. Already has introduced our senior management team. We have with us our Chairman and Managing Director, [ Shri G. Ravisankar ]; and Shri G. Ravisankar, Director Finance and CFO; Dr. Yatindra Dwivedi, Director Personnel; and Naveen Srivastava, Director of Operations. Before starting, we shall have a small corporate video on the performance of Power Grid. [Presentation]

I request everyone to please keep their mobile phones in silent mode, please. Now I'll invite our Chairman and Managing Director to have his opening remarks and presentation followed by a Q&A session.

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. It's my pleasure to welcome you all to this Analyst and Institutional Investors Meet of Power Grid Corporation of India Limited. I thank you, all investors, analysts and stakeholders for your continued trust and confidence in Power Grid. Your support has been integral to our journey as India's leading power transmission utility and a key enabler of the nation's energy transition. India today is witnessing an unprecedented transformation in the power sector, driven by rapid economic growth, imminent increase in the share of electricity in the energy basket, large-scale renewable energy integration and the government's vision to achieve net zero ambition. In this evolving landscape, Power Grid continues to play a strategic role in strengthening the national grid and ensuring reliable, secure and efficient power transmission across the country. I would like to state that the irrespective of what kind of a generation it is, it is the humble conductor, which is required for bringing in the mobility to the electricity, and that is what we are in the business. During the last year or during this year, I should say, we have continued to focus on timely project execution, operational excellence, grid reliability and technology adoption. We are expanding our transmission network to support renewable energy corridors, green energy evacuation and emerging requirements of the future grid, including HVDC systems, digitalization, smart infrastructure and grid stability solutions. Despite a dynamic business environment, the company has maintained strong operational performance and financial discipline. Our robust balance sheet, healthy cash flows and consistent dividend track record continues to reinforce Power Grid's position as a stable and dependable value creator for all stakeholders. Going forward, we remain optimistic about the significant opportunities emerging in the transmission sector. With India's growing renewable energy ambitions and the increasing network expansion requirements, we believe Power Grid is well positioned to sustain long-term growth while continuing to deliver reliable returns. Before we begin the presentation, I would like to place on record my sincere appreciation for the dedication and commitment of team Power Grid, whose efforts continue to drive the organization forward. We look forward to an engaging discussion with all of you today and addressing your question and answers and your perspectives after the presentation. Maybe have the presentation. Gentlemen, I'd like to take note of this disclaimer, including that the annual accounts for FY '25, '26 are yet to be approved by the shareholders. The presentation outline would be covering the highlights and overview, execution and innovation, competition, order pipeline and outlook, financial performance, sustainability, CSR and recognitions. Going with the highlights overview. I would like to state that on the performance front, the CapEx guidelines, whatever guidance we have given has exceeded. The capitalization guidance stands exceeded. The system availability stands exceeded. First, we should -- we are also proud to state that we got the first best project under the bidding route. The solar generation plant at Nagda has been commissioned, and we have commissioned the world's first 765 kV digital substation. We deployed the insulated cross arms on the 400 kV tower, showing our focus on reducing the right-of-way challenges and also reducing the footprint of the -- on the environment impact. Indigenously developed 220 kV mobile GIS, international expansion in the PPP mode through Africa 50 partnership. On the total structure of the company, I would like to say we are still the India's largest transmission utility. We have breached the INR 3 lakh crore of gross fixed assets. The transmission lines as on 31st March stand at 1.84 lakh circuit kilometer and then the transformation capacity at 6.24 GVA. HVDC projects running about 11 projects running includes both back-to-back and [ Bipur ] 1.01 gigawatt of interregional capacity out of the total 120 gigawatt interregional capacity, 99.84 as the system availability and comprising a total of 64 subsidiaries. The strong market position and credit profile, we would like to state that the market cap stands at 2.75% as on 31st March 2026, 51.34% by the government and the rest by the foreign institutional investors and the domestic institutional investors. The credit profile, the highest rating in the domestic front. And on the international front, we are at par with the sovereign rating. And you must be aware that the number of SPVs are primarily owing to the structure of the TBCB bidding, how it is -- so every time Power Grid runs a project, TBCB SPV is given to Power Grid. So in that way, given the large number of SPVs which have been coming, which are 80-plus now, we try to work upon the -- to bring in a leaner structure and a stronger governance. 17 SPVs have been merged into two other SPVs and 28 SPVs have been merged to two other SPVs. So in that way, we are trying to do it. The second part of 28 SPVs process is underway. And given the previous approach by the authorities, we look forward that this also will be materializing shortly. On the execution front, 4,765 circuit kilometers have been added in the previous financial year. And doing 72,055 MVA, amounting to almost 1,500 MVA in every 2.5 days and about 13 circuit kilometers every day. That's the kind of a pace which work has happened over there. And 9 number of new substations have been added to the KT of Power Grid, taking up to 291. And a few of the few key transmission projects, which include [ Badla ], Sikas, Ahmedabad, Lakadia and interestingly, Ahmedabad now [ Sari ], which is bringing the green power from the Kawada region into the Mumbai area. So these projects all the way coming from [ Khda ],akadia, Lakadia,abad Ahmedabad, now Sari. So these are the projects which are making sure that the green power is reaching to every [ nukan ] corridor of the country. New substations, Badla, [ Ramgarh ] in Rajasthan, including Da, which is done in a record time of 8 months after the first foundation being casted. [indiscernible] and KPS 3, which are Khavada projects, Ahmedabad, new substation, Marella in the heart of Delhi, we have new substation has been put up and Anatapuram, we have in the [ Andhra Pradesh ] region. And as what we have stated, we're proud to state that whatever CapEx or the capitalization figures we have given, I would like to reiterate that the CapEx, which was had a guidance of initially about INR 28,000 crores in the initial phase has been subsequently up to INR 35,000 crores. And eventually, we could deliver close to INR 40,000 crores. So this actually [ augurs ] well as far as the capitalization, which is going to follow shortly. And the guidance for '27 -- the initial guidance, I should say, is INR 37,000 crores. On the capitalization front, the commitment was INR 25,000 crores and eventually delivered as INR 28,206 crores. The guidance for '27 is up to INR 30,000 crores initially. On the operating front, Power Grid continues to demonstrate its leadership over here, and we are well above the maximum availability which is possible in terms of realizing revenue 99.75%. We are way above the mark and continuously deriving the full availability incentive. On the annual tripping, the other parameter which we closely monitor to make sure the healthiness of the entire system, it stands at a low of 0.26, which is a very good number in terms of both the domestic as well as the international standards. All these were enabled by infusing new technologies, including AI-based defect detection on the towers, drone-based patrolling and condition monitoring of the major equipment, including transformers and reactors. We are proud to also be having this onto our record that the Asia's first transformer with synthetic ester oil has been successfully commissioned, and the Power Grid has a significant role in designing this particular transformer along with the OEM. So it replaces conventional mineral oil. It's biodegradable, fire safe, being its fire point being close to or greater than 300 degrees centigrade and lower environmental impact. So we look forward that such kind of units be developed more and more in the country. India's first insulated cross arm of 400 kV level. As you can see that on the top of it, what you see there [indiscernible] multi-circuit actual picture on a Maharani Bagh-Narela line, it has 4 circuits. For clarity purpose, if I say there's totally 4 circuits over there. And of this, the bottom part, the 2 circuits are in a normal crossarm. So the quantum of write-off way or the west to that extent. And subsequently, when we put on the -- or rather when we also -- on the same tower, we put on the insulated cross am, so the right-of way comes down to that extent. So the total cost of the project, impact on the cost of the project and impact on the environment, everything goes down. So these are the solutions which we are actively pursuing and maybe in the next few lines, which are in highly urbanized areas, we look forward that these solutions will be deployed. And these are indigenously manufactured, the insulated cross arms. Another further in the cap is the 220 kV mobile GIS. As you see, it is a truck-mounted GIS bay usually readily to deploy quickly and at any location, it can move. And it is trailer mounted as you see, easily to be deployed and it boosts the grid resilience. Whenever there is an urgent requirement of any bay or during the operational phase or during any environmental impact in terms of cyclones or anything if some bay or some particular network is disturbed, the deployment of this would be such rapidly and we can restore the power supply. So this 132 kV is already there with us. 220 kV mobile is already positioned, and we are also going to get the 400 kV mobile GAs within this particular calendar year itself. So we see that we are going to have a good amount of armor in the assets, what Power Grid has so that we can deploy this as and when which are required. This is akin to the emergency restoration systems, what we had for towers. We can claim that these are emergency restoration systems for -- even for the substations as well. And battery energy storage systems, the bids which Andhra Pradesh has floated, we were successful in the bid in Kalikiri, and we look forward that this would be giving us a good insight as to how we need to navigate through the B model. Interesting to note to the right side is the integrated energy storage system. CRC, as you are aware, on 20th March, has notified an amendment to the existing terms and conditions of tariff regulations, wherein they have also opened up the batteries rather integrated energy storage systems to be developed by a transmission system developer as well. So taking cue from that, Power Grid has already initiated actions, and we are -- we had a successful discussion on the Northern region part. And then in the Western region part also, the discussions are taking place. So we see that this would open up a new opportunity wherein under Section 62, Power Grid can start implementing projects under the -- to bring the storage requirements into the country. Global expansions, the first international transmission PPP model, while we had our global footprint in many countries, this would be the first PPP model wherein about $300 million of investment in terms of the project cost, what would go in building the first PPP model by Power Grid. And the company which has been incorporated there is called us the Manga Transmission Company and works are taking up in full pace so that we are able to make inroads in the country of Kenya and which will pave way for different other countries also to follow suit because Africa 50 is partnering with us. So along with Power Grid and Africa 50, we see that there's a good opportunity to move beyond Kenya and also to other countries wherein this model can be successfully and gainfully -- so discussions are being held with Uganda, Zimbabwe, Mozambique and other countries. So depending upon the DPRs which are evolving and the kind of a structure what we have on the regulatory front, I'm sure that this is going to provide a good opportunity for Power Grid. The TBCB outcomes. In the financial year '26, 28 projects were floated, of which Power Grid had 9 projects as success and the total tariff stands about 44% and a few of the projects which are visible on your screen, you can look into that system, which includes also an intrastate project being developed by Power Grid for the state of Maharashtra, which is called Pune East, about 300-plus tariff, which is there for it. The outlook for transmission for the power grid and the sector as a whole, if you look the blue, what we can see is whatever works are already in hand, INR 1.7 lakh crore, which includes both from TBCB and the RTM mode. And on the green, which talks about bidding, which is in the pipeline, INR 1.1 lakh crores of projects are under bidding. And this is not including those projects which are going to come by the different states. Most of the states are now looking into this mode. So this will further add up depending upon the quantum of tenders what the state would be floating. Long-term sector opportunity in terms of CEA projections in terms of the opportunities in the Brahmaputra Basin and One Sun, One World and One Grid, which would be coming in the long term, we look at this is also going to be a potential opportunity for Power Grid to develop the transmission systems. Coming to the first INR 1.7 lakh crore works in hand. TBCB has a share of about 81%, about standing at INR 1.37 lakh crores. RTMs, INR 28,000 and other business is about INR 4,200 crores, a total working up to INR 1.7 lakh. We are not including the bank HPDC project, which is being reviewed by the Government of India. So shortly, we should be getting some guidance on that as well. INR 1.1 lakh crore bidding in pipeline, under bidding is INR 1.05 lakh crores, which is comprising both interstate and intrastate with a major chunk presently visible is interstate. And we also are actively looking at the intrastate also number of projects are massively increasing there. To be floated, primarily under the interstate is INR 5,270 crores, taking the total to INR 1.1 lakh crore for which bidding would be possible. Major projects include Rajasthan Barmer Complex, that is Phase 4, Vizag Green Hydrogen, Jamkhambaliya, Krishnagiri, Lakadia, ERWR interregional network and the Durgapur system. Strategic drivers powering transmission investment cycle on the domestic front. As I said that the anchor program by the Government of India, 900-plus gigawatt by 2036. This has a potential of about INR 7.9 lakh crore, which includes both interstate and intrastate transmission systems, including the evacuation needs for meeting the load requirements of green hydrogen. The hydro potential of about 76 gigawatts in the Brahmaputra basin, we see that this also adds up to INR 6.4 lakh crore in 2 phases. New demand centers in terms of data centers and green hydrogen further adds to about a requirement of 71 gigawatt being transported, which, as I already said, obviously, it should be a transmission system only, which would help in evacuation these systems. So either be it a new generation or it be a new load center in terms of data centers, green hydrogen or so, the ingredient or the essential or invariable ingredient would be the transmission sector. So I see a good opportunity in this front as well. On the global front, [ OnuneWorld ], One grid. As part of that exercise, whatever studies are being undertaken, I'm sure that this also will fructify to make sure that new opportunities open up for the country and Power Grid in particular. Intercontinental cross-border links, India, Sri Lanka, Maldives, Myanmar and UAE, Saudi Arabia, India, Singapore, these all are being discussed. And as and when the traction is there for it on a higher level, I'm sure that this also would be materializing. Upcoming HVDCs, 22 numbers of HVDCs are in various stages of bidding and planning. Total HVDC schemes envisaged at 22 and combined with a total HVDC capacity of 127 gigawatts. Presently, the Bharatpur I and Kallam project, which is under bidding presently. And the other projects from different generation points are identified. And as and when the load center is identified, these projects also will be fructified. Brahmaputra has already stated with the number of basins where the generation can happen. So a good number of HVDC 6 number of HVDC projects are also being envisaged here apart from the cross-border undersea links of India, Sri Lanka, [ Paradip ], [ Pandarma, ]amad also would be the links, which are in the pipeline. Financial performance. The total income for the financial year stands at INR 47,684 crores in comparison with the total income of financial year '25 is INR 47,459 crores. You need to factor in the natural trajectory of the RTM projects, which we need to be focusing that. The natural trajectory for the RTM project is that it is always on the downside. It comes down and it moves out basis the O&M charges. So as and when this trajectory is having a major dip, that is reflected. And in this case, almost INR 1,700 crores on account of depreciation and others have been covered up in this year, apart from the previous years, almost INR 750 crores on account of various additional revenue, which has happened on account of our additional spares or maybe 26% stake sale, what has happened and such kind of -- and also the [ PALs ] award what we have received from the regulator. All this gap -- also has added another INR 700 crores in the previous year. All this gap of INR 1,700 crores and another INR 700 crores dip, all this has been covered well in this particular financial year. Apart from the mass capitalization, which has taken place in this year, which would be actually reflecting in the revenues in the years to come because these happened primarily in the later part of the previous financial year. So the current financial year, that is '26, '27 would be witnessing the complete fruits of that particular capitalization. The profit after tax stands about INR 15,928 crores, which is a 3% increase, all this on the consolidated basis. And similarly, the financials on the stand-alone basis, the PAT stands at about INR 15,921 crores, which is 4% increase from the previous year. The gross fixed assets, as I stated that it has reached the INR 3 lakh crore, and it stands at INR [ 3,20,334 crores ]. Net worth also has breached the INR 1 lakh crores, standing at INR [ 1,1,494,494 ] crores. And then the return on net worth with the increased net worth naturally stands at 15.85%. These ratios are primarily indicative of a company which is in a growth phase in a massive growth phase. And the income for previous periods, FY '26 stands at INR 617 crores. Interest on differential tariff at INR 705 crores. Interest from subsidiaries, INR 3,350 crores incentive, consolidated INR 664 crores dividend from JVs, INR 145 crores, dividend from subsidiaries, INR 1,516 crores. CSR expenses, INR 351 crores, FERV INR 1,277 crores, equity in TBCB and equity in TBCB, both operations and under construction, which are there. And it stands about INR 9,558 crores and INR 2,502 crores, respectively. Short-term loan, INR 7,000 crores. As I said, all these figures are indicative of the structure in which Power Grid is having multiple subsidiaries for TBCB and also the growth phase of the company as a whole. On the collections front, pleased to also share that strong collections are happening on this -- in the previous financial year. We see that as against INR 40,201 crores, INR 40,684 crores has been realized with the new LPS rules and all kicking in. And as against the INR 4,795 crores outstanding in the year financial year '24, it is now standing at INR 2,905 crores standing with the kind of efforts being put by the company and also the provisions which are there for us to realize this. Interesting to note also that the outstanding more than 45 days also, which is in blue, represented in blue is also significantly reduced. On the consultancy and telecom front, if I take up the telecom front first, so the revenue has increased from INR 1,128 crores despite the high level of competition in the telecom sector, it is still growing steadily at INR 1,195 crores. And happy also to announce that Power Grid is also able to provide the highest 400G interface for the telecom sector, which is the highest level in the country. So the massive amount of data which can be transported under a single interface is now available in Power Grid and is also in operation. And the first ever international long distance link has been delivered to Bhutan, and we are poised to take up more such international requirements for telecom as well. The pilot data center, the 1,000 data center, which we are building at Manesar is going to be visible within the next quarter. And we are seeing great opportunities and a lot of traction in this government-owned data center being established by Power Grid. And the availability of telecom continues to be one of the finest with 100% backbone availability. Consultancy, INR 799 crores, which was standing at financial year '25, now stands at INR 1,755 crores. On the domestic front, 39 orders and ongoing projects at 62. On the international front, 8 orders and 25 countries have been -- having footprint of Power Grid. We are also keenly looking into pursuing opportunities in South Asia, Middle East, Africa, South America, Europe and Australia. On our commitment to ESG goals, glad to also inform that the targets what we set for 2025 that 50% of the electricity consumption would be from RE has been well achieved much before the completion of the year. And the net positive in terms of water, what we aim to achieve at 2030, we are more than halfway mark with 55% already done through and zero waste to landfill. Landfill, we are almost up to 90% is what we are already presently there, and we are inching forward to reach our goals. And net zero emission status by 2047. We are confident that we should be able to achieve this much before the target date. Various sustainability initiatives, what we have taken up during our journey is initially the first sustainability report back in 2009. And thereafter, the first 400 kV shunt reactor with natural ester oil and then the ESG water and waste policies have been adopted and '23, '24, the anti-bribery system in position; '24, '25, the first ICT with ester oil; 25-'26, the first 315 MVA synthetic ester oil, which has been commissioned and also the 85-megawatt solar PV. ESG rating stands by NSES 70. We have 9 substations, which are, by and large, manned by women. Transmitting smiles through corporate social responsibility, that is our tagline. And major thrust areas are in health and nutrition and [ PM ] internship, skill development and employability, rural development and environmental sustainability, education and women empowerment. On the focus on these major fronts, we are having a good amount of spend as far as CSR goes. We have received a good amount of accolades. A few of them only have been narrated here. As you can see, it covers both HR on the technical front and also on the CSR initiatives. The Scope Eminence Award, we are ranked first in the International Transmission Asset Management system also and the People L&D Excellence Award for using AI in learning, Green World Award for climate change initiatives being undertaken by Power Grid. And we are ranked first in CSR category by ICC and Best Organization for Women Come Forward by Economic Times. Thank you so much for your patient sharing. And this is the actual picture of the 400 kV multi-circuit line, which is to Maharani Bagh–Narela. 4 number of circuits of each of 400 kV line over there. And if you can see a small spec on the road, which is in white and color, that is the size of the vehicle, which is standing there. So you can see the massness of the entire structure which stands over there. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions]

My first question is, can you please explain the reason for EBITDA decline in Q4 FY '26? Is it due to older assets completing 12 years of life? And can you also please shed some light on the accounting for the new transmission system? Are you booking everything on service concession accounting? Are you booking the newer transmission system on the service concession accounting method? Especially new TBCB. That's the first question.

Yes, you're partly right in your question itself, you have been asking that whether it is whether the EBITDA pattern is because of assets completing 12 years. Yes, to the extent of that the structure of the regulated tariff has a trajectory wherein after the 12 years, which you are aware, there is a dip in those projects, which is there. So this is a natural transition which happens over the time. And this is one of the transition, which is a major transition which has happened for a major project in -- and as far as the service accounting part of it, yes, these projects are under the new projects which are being on the book. And the financial lease model is being followed up.

Understood. My second question is, is it possible to help us with the capital expenditure target for F '27, F '28 and F '29, given the list of projects? And also, you can similarly help us with the commissioning expectation for F '27 and F '28. Commissioning number, capital expenditure and commissioning.

As I've already shown in the presentation for FY '26, '27, the initial guidance what we are starting with is about INR 37,000 what we are starting to initial guidance.

F '27. And F '28, sir?

Pardon me?

F '28.

F '28, that will be naturally beyond 40 the initial guidance again, I'm saying it will beyond [ 40 ] [ 45 ] -- and all what has been capitalized CapEx the capitalization also will be shortly following. So we are initially giving a guidance about INR 30,000 crores for the current year. And then next year, it should be moving up to INR 35,000. And as we move forward, as we move into the year, the more of clarity coming. And as last time as what we already said, the initial guidance was given as INR 28,000 crores for the CapEx and eventually achieved close to INR 40,000 crores. So all this would be happening hopefully this year as well. The quantum of efforts what we are putting and also streamlining the activities. And I'm sure that we should be able to meet the guidance what is being given to you.

This is Puneet from HSBC. My first question is if you can shed some light on your BESS strategy. You talked about Section 62 also in play here. How do you intend to grow this piece of the portfolio?

See, BESS is coming on two fronts. One is by the VGF being given by the government. So states have been rushing to put a good number of tenders on the BESS front over there. Power also is participating so that we understand the kind of model more and what kind of an ecosystem is there in trying to put up these systems. So as I said, one of the projects which we have, this will give us a good opportunity for having insight into the best projects. That is one part of it. That is under the 63 model, if I say. And when we come to the 61 and 62 sections under which the tariff is under the regulated model, pleased to also inform that the regulator and its terms and conditions of tariff amendment, which is issued recently also calls for that the transmission service provider can put up the integrated storage systems. As part of it, the exercise what has to be done, the kind of documents what have to be furnished, the locations which have to be selected, the cost benefit analysis, all these things have to be done. And we have already done this. And in terms of Northern region, we already submitted all our details, and we see a very positive traction on that front. And for the other regions also, it will follow suit. And given the massive requirement of the storage requirements, we feel that the Section 62 would be a very conducive way to create the ecosystem so that eventually these projects or these systems can be developed under the Section 63 more. So we see that this would be actually paving a good way for the system to be built in the countries. The OEMs will be having that much of a visibility, predictability. So we see that moving forward, this -- if it's gaining traction, Power Grid will also be taking that up, and we already started for Europe.

Do you have a target capacity in mind for this over the next 3 years?

I would say not immediately now. But once we get a clarity about how these provisions which have been identified in the new regulation, the moment these are -- because all the stakeholders will have to look into it. The moment the clarity comes on it, I'm sure we should be able to give you these numbers in the next direction. We should be able to give.

Understood. And secondly, on the write-off way, there were some challenges last year. Some amendments happened on the compensation. How are you seeing that moving ahead? Has it significantly improved? Or you still see a lot of challenges on ROW?

See, ROW right of way is always a perennial issue. Every tower is a project in itself. And it is not unique to Power Grid. It is unique to every transmission service provider. It is not only that the ROW is for a particular segment. So it is there. Now that it is there, the government has come up with an initiative since 2024 and 2025, it has come up with a market rate determination because earlier, the right-of charges were paid for a quantum of area, but the rate what was applied for that particular area was primarily the circle rate or any other rate which was known to them. But now a mechanism has been given by the central government. The guidelines have also been issued saying that this will be a market rate determined kind of a mechanism wherein valuers would be identified and valuers will be independently valuing that area and more than 1 value, that is 3 values will be identified wherein they look forward that it will emerge the right rate. The moment the right rate comes, we are sure that the landowner to a great extent, will be willing to park the land for construction of the line, both under the tower as well as the corridor. Just for your knowledge, I should say, for a tower, it is 200% of the area of the tower what we are paying. And for the corridor where the conductor runs from tower to tower, the entire right of way, we are paying 30%, 45% or 60% basis the quantum of urbanization, which has happened over the -- that is also clearly defined. And in order to speed up the process, specific time lines also have been issued so that it should be not only the provisions, but also time lines also so that the outcome of the MRC rate is done quickly so that the right-of-way challenges are to that extent mitigated.

Understood. And lastly, on the interstate -- intrastate TBCB projects, you talked about 17 projects under bidding. How are you thinking about that? What all states would you bid? And what are the risk mitigants given it's not as easy to collect as ISTS?

That's quite an interesting question, I should say. Interstate has a system of point of collection charges. We have the PRATY Portal, wherein the payment security mechanisms are well taken care of. Having said that, as far as the intrastate goes, similar provisions in terms of regulation of power supply are also available in the document. And we have also given guidance that the PRATY Portal also should be because through one particular amendment, the interstate transmission licensee has been removed and it's only defined as transmission licensing. So we see that this portal going forward would also provide good strength as far as the payment security mechanism goes. But then there are challenges again, intrastate also still requires transmission lines, right of way would be there. And as what we see, there should be good support from the government front as well to clear the right of way, which we are seeing a lot of support being provided by the central government and the state administration has also played a very vital role in most of the projects in light of the table.

[ Amit Bhinde ] from Axis Capital. So I just want to understand what is the difference between the gross block that you would have made on the capitalized asset versus the NCD cost in the project that you commissioned in FY '26? And similarly, if you can give some inflation indicative number on the CapEx part as well that you're incurring? That's my first question. So if you can help me understand the variance between the actual gross block that you will be recording on the balance sheet of the project that you have capitalized versus the NCD cost to understand the inflation impact.

Okay. The NCT cost is purely a number which is derived much before the project is implemented without going to the details of it. Whereas the cost what we undertake in our bidding has to a greater exercise has been done over there. So that is the cost what we go ahead while starting a project. But the real cost of a project is only after completion of a project. Whoever we implementing a project or whichever be the infrastructure, the cost of the project is known only after completion. So your question is what would be the difference between the NCT cost?

Yes. So approximately, if you can give the variance, like 10%, 15%.

From project to project. We cannot specifically say which -- how much it would be there. But be rest assured that whatever cost we have been taking up with the quantum of experience what we have in this sector, all costs are factored well. And in case if there are costs which are surprised to us in terms of something which we could not have them at the beginning of the project in terms of force majeure and change in law, we see that these are also being properly addressed as part of the transmission that [indiscernible]

Right. The second question that I have is the under this bidding pipeline that you mentioned. In that, if you can give some color around the time line as to when we are expecting most of this to come in Q2, Q3, et cetera, if you have some visibility on that? And any slippages risk over there?

I think this question would be better to the planner. Please understand that the planner these activities. We would be asking the similar question to say that when are these projects coming because we are a developer now. We are a developer now. But having said that, the time lines are very well known. They are very well documented as and when the RFP comes. And in case if they have a challenge in finalizing it because of the offtaker and off, there could be a shift in a couple of months. But by and large, the projects once they are envisaged here have seen the light of the...

This is Namit Arora from Ingrowth Capital. Sir, my question was around TBCB. Now you mentioned 2 statistics. One is that the number of projects you won this year and also your market share since inception of 44%. So if you could give us some background on, are you seeing competitive intensity increasing for TBCB projects? And in terms of your discipline in terms of the tariff or the IRR that you look at? And going forward, do you expect similar market shares or success rates in the TBCB projects?

Sure, sure. So I would say that we have been in this sector for quite some time initially under the cost-plus mode, and it's more than now 14 years since we are into the tariff-based bidding. So while undertaking the bids, we take into the quantum of risk return framework of that particular project, and then we go ahead. so that we are able to create value for our stakeholders. Keeping that in mind, whatever projects we are picking up, by and large, would be in that -- focusing on that to make sure that the value for the stakeholders is ensured always. That's what I should say.

Got it. Sir, my second question was in terms of the annual tariffs, most of your projects are INR 100 crore plus the ones that you won, but there are a couple of small projects also. So in terms of your bidding, do you remain open to all projects that come out? And also when the planners are designing, do you expect that the minimum size of the projects might go up or there might be some small projects as well?

Okay. I should say that the smallest project, which we have touched was somewhere about INR 60 crores also the cost of the project was INR 60 crores also -- so the plan is slowly realized that what should be the size of the project. For intrastate, as you must be aware, intrastate, there are thresholds which are defined by each of the state. So they have given 150 to 150 depending upon the state. That is for the intrastate. For the interstate, we have the set of framework under which we have both -- or rather all the three, the CTIL, the NCT and the Ministry of Power, they determine what should be the size of project, which has to go to the TBCB. So as far as that -- what is determining that, it is that particular entity which identifies it. And whatever be the size of the project, the quantum of -- what should the activities involved are the same, and we are not indifferent to a smaller project or a larger project. We are more, as I said, we look into the total risk return framework of that particular project and then we go so that we are ensuring that the value to the stakeholders is always intact.

My final question was around technology and innovation, both for asset management as well as for new projects. So while you are using a lot of technology, if you could give us some background, let us say, whether it's drones or new technology, both for asset management, given your very large network as well as for new project implementation, especially considering that you operate in very difficult are also at times. So in terms of innovation and technology, is it at par with what's being done globally? Or are you -- are there some more innovations that you are considering to enhance your asset management and new project implementation capabilities?

Thank you so much for asking that question. So as you understand, as the size of the network grows, which is in operation and the intensity of project implementation also grows, we have big challenges in both -- the one water is in hand, is massive. And what is we are growing is also it's in a massive structure. So we need to actually -- with the quantum of manpower, what we have, we are very keen and focused upon bringing in new technologies to make sure that at no point of time, my operational parameters are low or continue to be high. And at the same time, the project implementation is to at the best. So as far as the operational part goes, the Power Grid has been one of the initial inroads what we have made in trying to not only have more of a technology driven but also AI-driven approaches in trying to identify the shortcomings or the defects before they really materialize into a massive impact on the system. So we are able to detect them early and rectify them and take action at an early stage. With this approach, we are having a good amount of AI-driven technologies and unique applications developed by Power Grid only, I mean, not elsewhere. So unique applications which Power Grid has both in terms of towers as well as the major equipment, we do have this. And we are also moving more towards reliability centered maintenance. So this would be one of the first in the world what we are also looking at. Apart from that, we are looking into indigenization of one of the solutions, software solutions, which would also help the country in maintaining the security aspect. As and when we move a lot of IT into the system, you need to balance it with the adequate cybersecurity as well. Taking care of that, we are moving as far as the operational front and on the construction front goes, we are no longer in that initial primitive stage, the understanding the status of the project. We have the entire streaming -- live streaming of all the projects are available. We have a monitoring team wherein we look into the projects sitting in our control room, we can see all the projects, what is the status of it, not only merely the projects. The status is also updated on a handheld device. So with internally, indigenously or rather power grid only developed the app, wherein all this data is coming and there is one single truth about the project so that we know what action has to be taken and timely action is taken to make sure that the project is not having any time or cost overrun. So with these initiatives, we are confident and also including the transparency and quality and all which we are bringing in, all these things will be giving -- positioning us in a good stead, not only in the growth of the company for new projects, but also maintaining the operational excellence what we already have.

This is [ Archit Singhal ] from [ Bajaj Alternate ]. So two questions. First, you mentioned on a slide the opportunity size of INR 15 lakh crores, right? And we are doing annual CapEx of around INR 40,000 crores as of now. So is it fair to understand that maybe 3 years from now, the annual CapEx number itself can increase to INR 500 INR 60,000 or INR 70,000 or is that like a too far fetched an assumption?

It's not farfetched. As and when these things materialize, understand transmission is an offshoot of the generation and load. I would have said a few years ago, it is generation, but I would say it is an offshoot of generation and load. The quantum of transmission evolution depends upon how much of generation is happening and how much of new load centers are coming up. So as and when those are materializing, it is no option, but transmission will have to happen because as I said to you, transmission is the only way how electricity can move. You cannot take it in a tanker. So I'm sure that as and when the generation comes up in new locations and the load centers coming, it is a common denominator for everything, whatever be the nature of generation, including nuclear power or whatever it is, because electricity is a fungible good and transmission is a neutral carrier.

And sir, linked question is, I mean, as execution is picking up, capitalization numbers are improving. So fair to assume that the earnings growth for the next 3 years will be significantly better than what it was for the last 3 years?

You're not wrong.

Okay. Perfect. And sir, second question on the HVDCs, you mentioned 22 are there in various stages of planning and bidding. So what is the time period we are looking at these 22 HVDCs to come? Is it like every year, we can have 2 to 3 HVDCs coming for the next 6, 7 years?

Again, as I said, one of the gentlemen who has asked, this is a planner who will have to identify this question. Having said that, that's a disclaimer I have a planner who will identify it. So having said that, it all depends upon the -- many aspects will have to be fixed in for a particular system to be evolved, a transmission system also HVDC system also. So meaning that the potential generation center, the potential load center, the timing, what has to come. And then the number of OEMs who are willing to provide the solution in a particular time line should be taken because now to get the HVDC system in a matter of 1 or 2 years is not possible. So you need a longer perspective. So factoring all these -- only then these solutions will be emerged. And as and when they come, definitely, there will be enough time for all of us to understand it, and we have to need -- we also require the time to undertake our bidding. So it will come. These projects are there, and they will become visible as and when we move forward. It will happen.

This is Subhadip here from Nuvama. My question is more around the macro ordering. I understand that in some of the past interactions that we've had, you alluded to a number of somewhere between INR 80,000 crores to INR 1 lakh crores of annual tendering opportunity that can emerge. If you break up that INR 9 lakh crore, let's say, out of that, maybe INR 3 lakh crore already ordered, another INR 6 lakh crore left probably over the next 4 to 5 years, roughly, that's the number we come to. And you can correct me if my math is wrong. So taking that into consideration, do you see an upside to that number that opportunity can be higher than this number? And secondly, as a derivative of that, once Power Grid reaches an annual CapEx of let's say around INR 45,000 crores, INR 50,000 crores over the next 2 years, is there a further upside to that number? Or do you think that number can stabilize somewhere around that INR 50,000 crore mark?

Okay. The share of electricity presently in the energy basket is about 22%. With the ongoing crisis and more impetus on the electricity being the -- having a larger share, you would be getting obvious answers where we should move as far as the electricity goes. And if electricity share increases in the energy basket, obviously, the transmission also will have to follow suit. So the answer for your first question that whether it will grow, yes, it will have to invariably grow given the kind of conditions where we are in. Apart from that, a significant amount of intrastate is also coming under the based competitive bidding meaning the more tenders are being floated as we speak. So we see an opportunity only increasing. The bubble is increasing more and more. I will not say bubble, but then the entire horizontal is increasing more and more. So giving us more opportunities for us to dive in. And as we see that the opportunities grow naturally, then the top line also is -- it can't be left behind. It will have to grow.

Understood. And on -- specifically on the interstate piece, within this INR 6 lakh crore opportunity, would you say that the intrastate is roughly 50% of that? Is that a right, let's say, thumb rule to go with?

No, no, no. It could be -- see, these projects will have to evolve eventually. And most complex part of it is that the cost of the intrastate is not predefined anywhere. It is not stated. It is only a very -- a fraction sometimes of the total project cost. So being guided by that particular number may not actually yield us any particular figure out there. But we -- for safely, we can say that there is a good amount of opportunity in the interstate and also a good amount of opportunity on the intrastate because these two will have to go hand-in-hand because we cannot simply develop an interstate and leave the intrastate just like that. So they have to grow and they will grow together.

Duly noted. Last question on the HVDC side, while you did answer, I think, in the previous question. From a near-term tendering and opportunity perspective beyond, let's say, I think the Barmer line, are there, let's say, a couple of more projects that you see visibility of over the next 12 to 18 months on HVDC?

Yes, it should be. It should be. As I said again, it would be the planner who would be deciding it. As you understand, the planning activity is done by a different entity. So as and when it converges, it will come through. It should happen. It should happen because power being generated and we need long distance evacuation systems, so they will follow suit.

Nikhil here from Bernstein. I just had one question. So now 80% of our work in hand is TBCB. And since we won these projects, every single cost head has gone up, whether it's conductor, transformer, land and possibly long-duration interest rates. So earlier, we were guiding on about 11% to 13% equity IRRs at least some time back on these projects. Do we still believe we can meet that threshold of equity IRRs on these projects given the rise in rates, given rise in all these costs and our inability to pass them through?

As I said that we are in this business for the last many decades. And in the transmission TBCB also, we are proud to state that we are more than a decade now, almost 14 years we are into this -- so while undertaking this, we do factor these aspects as to what is the probable increase in it. There are provisions taken care for that. Having said that, in case if there is a surprise which comes, which cannot be factored in a typical bid, they are well claimable under the change in law, which is provisions which are available under the transmission service agreement. So keeping this, we make sure that wherever we are bidding, whatever we are doing, we are able to protect the returns for the stakeholder. We are doing that.

Understood, sir. So would you say it's the same rate, 11% to 13% equity IRR could...

Will be better as well. Unlike please understand the model of a cost plus RTM mode and a TBCB. The better you do in a cost plus, it has in a cost-plus model, the returns are pegged to whatever be the cost of the project. Even if you do the best of the innovations, I mean, that's the way how the model is. It's not particular to transmission sector, and it's not particular to India, wherever there is an RTM mode, be it any network, et cetera or anything which is being developed in the RTM mode, the incentive for a better costing or a better operational efficiency is not discovered. Under TBCB, that is available. So after the tariff, if you are able to bring more of efficiencies, both in terms of the construction and the operational front, definitely, that would be reflected in the returns. There is an opportunity. Yes, please.

Yes, this is Mohit Pandey from Citi Research. Sir, first question, if you could give some color on the phasing of the CapEx and capitalization for FY '27, will it be very back-ended, 2H heavy in terms of CapEx and capitalization phasing?

I think already answered that question. CapEx -- guidance you're giving?

No, no, not guidance. The phasing part of it. So in FY '26, it was very back-ended, second half phasing.

You are talking about the phasing part.

Yes.

Let me say you, the transmission projects are not guided by a calendar year or a financial year, okay? They are guided by the quantum of work which is involved in it. So maybe a project is taking about 18 months, 20 months, 24 months, and that could happen in this financial year or it could happen in the next financial year. I just wanted to use this question to answer or to clear thoughts that why it is happening here more what it is happening last year. It depends upon the project which has started off and when it is ending. Hopefully, a number of projects may converge on a particular quarter, so you see something magic has happened. No, it magic was happening right from the -- so it only culminated in a particular quarter over there. And as far as phasing which goes, you should also understand that there are certain seasons wherein the transmission projects find it a little challenging trying to move forward, particularly the rainy seasons. But having said that, if you have completed all the projects, and it's only a matter of commissioning of the system and the substation, they do take place. So keeping in view the challenges, what will be coming forward, both in terms of right of way, the forest clearances and then the disruptions owing to the natural calamities, which are much more now if you can try to say that. So depending upon that, the projects may converge. And by and large, what we see is it will have an even spread across the quarters over there. It should be happening. Maybe you should be seeing a few projects getting commissioned shortly or maybe it may take a month here and there, but then it would be evenly spread. It would be evenly spread. It's only incidental, coincidental that it happened in the previous financial year, everything happened in Q4, but not necessarily it should happen in the same day time. There is no such statement happening.

Understood, sir. Sir, and so for last year, what proportion of the CapEx and capitalization exceeding guidance would you attribute to improvement in right-of-way challenges versus projects without those challenges coming in for commissioning?

Every project is plagued with the right of way. Every project is played. Not only right of way, sometimes we have challenges in the supply chain as well. The high intensity work is happening across the country, there are challenges both in terms -- let us not only ascribe it to right of way alone. It is also right of way, the challenges in terms of the supply chain, a few of the equipment. Sometimes you don't get a small equipment, the entire project is put on hold because of that because massive amount of works are happening in the country. And then the availability of the labor or the skilled labor for us to undertake the works. So all of that will culminate when all of that gets through, then the project is done.

Yes. And sir, final question on the deferred tax asset linked movements from this quarter linked to tax changes. So bulk of it is done? Or should we expect similar movements in the coming year as well?

No, it's -- you see all the TBCBs are already in new regime. Only Power Grid was continuing is the old regime. So we'll be migrating to the new tax regime. So it's -- as per the act, we should -- standards, we should remeasure the deferred tax liability. So the onetime, this effect has already been given. We don't expect further remeasurements in the future years.

Last couple of questions, if any. Otherwise, we can call it off here.

This is Shirom Kapur from Jefferies. I had a couple of questions. One, you alluded to sometimes projecting get delayed because of equipment supply issues. So in the past, we've seen that we have seen extended lead times for procurement of transformers and various other equipment. Could you comment on that? Are we still seeing stretched lead times? Is there a demand supply capacity gap? What is -- if you could quantify the capacity of transformer manufacturing in India right now versus the demand? That would be my first question.

Okay. The capacity stands somewhere about 300 GVA and the demand is much higher than that, 400 plus in a particular year. I'm talking in terms of the transformation capacity for both transformers and reactors. Having said that, with the -- for the couple of years, what we are seeing in terms of the challenges in procuring these units, a good amount of capacity expansions is also being undertaken by the OEMs. That is happening on one front. And we're going for bulk procurement, which is taking away the project-specific procurement, giving enough lead time for the OEM also to supply the equipment. So that's the reason you could see 72,000 MVA being added in one single year, massive amount of capacity, which has been added in that. Other thing what has happened, which I would like to also mention here is that the time line which was earlier, about 18 months for implementing a project, that was putting stress not only on the entire project, but also on the OEMs as well. But with that being rightly recognized, and now the time lines have been recently increased to about 26 and 13-plus months. So that is giving enough room for the OEMs also to deliver. So I see that the multiple things which are happening, the time lines being increased and more predictability in terms of the orders which are there, capacity expansions, which are happening. So all these things, we look forward, we'll try to ease down that particular situation, hopefully. But then the intensity of works also as it increases, more new projects coming in. So we'll have to see who is going to catch up with whom that has to happen.

Understood, sir. And the second question is on -- so in FY '26, your CapEx guidance of INR 35,000 crores, which you've surpassed now and achieved INR 40,000 crores. So do you see 2 years down the line, your capitalization guidance, which you have maintained at INR 35,000 crores, is there scope for that actually being upgraded given that your CapEx also was higher than you had initially estimated?

CapEx capitalization will have to follow. have any option will come.

One last over there to my left. Okay. This one and then the last one over there.

Just one question on the regulated equity. If you can share the regulated equity on a stand-alone basis on a consol basis?

Regulated?

Equity.

Regulated equity will be only in the stand-alone. So TBCB, there is no regulated equity is whatever is appearing in the books in the standalone.

This is [ Dilip ] from ICICI Securities. So my question was the CIE is planning to increase the fixed charges for the consumers. So I was just thinking if it can benefit the power grid, how it can benefit the power grid. So long as the DSOs are having a very healthy practice to get their revenues, that is good news to us. So basically...

Solution if it is given to DICOM.

Also can benefit from.

I'm not talking about this, but then if there is some solution which is provided and the DSOs are going to be that much healthy, it's definitely good news to us and good news to you.

All right. On that note, thank you, sir. It was nice. There are a few more segments, quick ones. I now invite Mr. [ Sanjay Sharma ]. He's the Executive Director, Corporate Planning for the Be of Thanks. And after that, a few photographs with you. Thank you, Mr.

Respected Chairman and Managing Director, Power Grid, members of the Board of Directors, other members of Power Grid family, our investors and analysts and dear friends, a very good afternoon to all of you. On behalf of Power Grid, I thank all the analysts and institutional investors for joining us today in spite of a very busy results season. Your presence has and your continued faith is always inspiring and means a great deal to us. I thank the CMD and the Board of Directors for their continued guidance. I also thank the organizing team of Power Grid Western Region, one, ably led by Executive Director, [ Shri K.K. Beharaji ] for meticulous planning and all the logistical support provided by the hotel, our arrangers for the manner in which they have organized this organization, this particular meet. We value your partnership and look forward to continued support. Thank you.