Pricol Limited (PRICOLLTD) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q3 and 9 Months FY '25 Conference Call of Pricol Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. At this time, I would like to hand the conference over to Ms. Nupur Jainkunia from Valorem Advisors. Thank you, and over to you, ma'am.

Thank you. Good evening, everyone, and a very warm welcome to you all. My name is Nupur Jainkunia from Valorem Advisors. We represent the Investor Relations of Pricol Limited. On behalf of the company, I would like to thank you all for participating in the company's earnings call for the third quarter and 9 months ended for financial year 2025. Before we begin, let me mention a short cautionary statement. Some of the statements made in today's con call may be forward-looking in nature. Such forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties, which could cause actual results to differ from those anticipated. Such statements are based on management's belief as well as assumptions made by information currently available to management. Audiences are cautioned not to place an undue reliance on these forward-looking statements in making any investment decisions. The purpose of today's earnings call is purely to educate and bring awareness about the company's fundamental business and financial quarter under review. Let me now introduce you to the management participating with us in today's earnings call and hand it over to them for opening remarks. We have with us Mr. Vikram Mohan, Managing Director; Mr. P. M. Ganesh, Chief Executive Officer and Executive Director; and Mr. Priyadarsi Bastia, Chief Financial Officer of the company. Without any further delay, I request Mr. Vikram Mohan to start with his opening remarks, followed by financial and operational highlights of the company. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you, ma'am. Good evening, everyone, and a warm welcome to our Q3 FY '25 earnings call. The presentation has already been uploaded, and I hope all of you have had a chance to see the same before this call. As all of you are aware, the automotive industry is seasonal, and the quarter 3 is always the weakest quarter in the financial year. In spite of having a weak quarter in the automotive industry, your company has performed reasonably well under the conditions. Our revenue for the quarter 3 is INR 6,159 million with an EBITDA of INR 780 million with an EBITDA margin of 12.67%, PAT of INR 414 million with a PAT margin of 6.73% with a basic EPS of INR 3.40. At a consolidated level, our long-term borrowings continue to stand as nil. So far we will move straight to the question-and-answer session. May I request participants in the interest of democracy, to restrict yourself to one question and once you receive the answer for the same to go back to the question queue so that everyone in the call has a chance to ask questions. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] First question is from the line of from Khush Nahar from Electrum PMS.

So my first question was regarding the demand. So like we see this quarter, we have grown 11%, which has been considerably on the lower side in the past 8, 10 quarters. So what kind of growth are we seeing going ahead? And from FY '26 since after the consolidation, we are well above our target of INR 3,600 crores of revenue that we have envisaged. So what type of growth we see FY '26 onwards also on a consolidated level?

This quarter, demand was a little muted in the entire industry. And in addition, we had some supply chain issues, which resulted in lower sales. We are expecting to grow at around between 13% and 15% based on our product mix, new product introduction and market demand.

Next question is from the line of Aman Agarwal from Carnelian Capital.

My question was on the acquisition. So like if you can briefly talk about the strategy for this acquisition and like once the deal is complete, what will be our strategy and plan for next 3 to 5 years, like since TVS is the largest customer, so like diversifying from that as well as focus on growth from that segment as well as margin improvement. So like if you can talk a bit on that, sir.

Aman, I'll break that up into 3 parts, the answer for the same. The rationale for the acquisition, I've always maintained over the last 2 years that we are looking at an acquisition where in a commodity space and plastics is something that we understand very well in Pricol, and we are masters in plastics. And we want to acquire a company with a higher -- with a low TTM or time to market, as we say, in our industry because in our current products, from the LOI for the business to the start of production is anywhere from 30 to 36 months. We wanted to acquire a business with a 12- to 14-month TTM. And we came across this asset, which was well run, belonging to the TVS Group with good value systems, good quality and good engineering. The revenue from the TVS Group is about 50% at this point in time. The plan is to significantly grow this business and move from a component supplier to an [ FSS ] business. The total business that is expected to be done by this company this year is about INR 800 crores with an EBITDA of about INR 70 crores. And we have acquired the business at an adjusted EBITDA multiple of 3.5x -- 3.5x EBITDA multiple, which is value accretive to our shareholders. The growth plan, as I mentioned, is to move from more components to more engineered products, which is to be an FSS plastic supplier. This company already has some world-class customers as its customers. And I have personally met all of these 6 customers, and they are willing to grow the business and expand the business. And probably in a quarter from now, once we take over management and start the planning process, I will be in a better position to comment about a 3- to 5-year outlook. But our plan is to double the business to about somewhere in the region of INR 1,700 crores over the next 3 years, both organically and inorganically.

Understood, sir. That was really helpful. Just a follow-up on that. So like how much would be the domestic revenue and how much would be exports and like incrementally, would we focus more on domestic or exports and like completely have....

No, there is no export revenue in that company. It is entirely domestic. Once we take control and 1 or 2 quarters down the line, we will explore what are the possibilities for export revenue. But exports in a plastic commodity is -- the chances are much lower than unless we get into an FSS mode.

Right. And sir, can we sell it to our existing customers like we have a good line of...

That was a thought process. That was the logic because being a TVS company, they were restricted from selling to other 2-wheeler makers and other OEMs. With Pricol coming on board, we will now pitch this business to all our other OEMs where we are working.

[Operator Instructions] next question is from the line of Vipulkumar Anopchand Shah from Sumangal Investments.

So sir, can you comment on the recent 2 tie-ups, CGI Studio and TYW. So what will -- how they will be beneficial to us? And so if you can briefly...

These are very old tie-ups, Mr. Shah. CGI Studio and Pricol have been working for a long time and TYW and Pricol also have been working for 1 year. This is more on technology and graphics and animation for our new projects. This is not a joint venture. This is only to enhance our technology and our products. And this is not new relationships. These are old relationships.

Okay. So we just paid a royalty or something like that?

It's a case-to-case basis. Development costs are paid, and there is some transfer of technology.

Next question is from the line of Dhiraj Kaswan from RRR Investments.

First of all, congratulations on the acquisition. And next, I would want to also know that 50% of the revenue of Sundaram comes from TVS and other revenue comes from the other where they supply. So how confident are you that you won't lose those customers as the company has left the umbrella of TVS and it's joining Pricol now?

I have personally visited all the other 6 customers that contribute to the bulk of the business. They are very happy with the company and its products and strengthening the business and growing.

Okay. And another follow-up was that you said that you assume the company is going to grow at 13% to 15%. That is your estimate. And you want that to increase Sundaram, you want to double the revenue in the next 3 years, so around 26%, 27%...

13% to 15% is the growth rate for Pricol with new product launches and market growth and product mix. Sundaram Auto Components Limited, which will henceforth be referred to as Pricol Precision Products with effect from 1st February, we want to take the business to about INR 1,600 crores to INR 1,700 crores over the 3 years through organic and inorganic means.

Okay. So that 13% to 15% growth estimate is including Sundaram or is it just for the Pricol?

It's excluding is it for the business as it stands today for Pricol Limited. Pricol Precision Products, which is how Sundaram Auto Components is going to be called. We are looking at doubling the business over a 3-year period to about INR 1,600 crores to INR 1,700 crores, which is far higher than a 13% to 15% growth rate.

Yes. And the revenue of Sundaram will start flowing from which date?

Tomorrow is the date of closure. So all goes well, from 1st of February, it becomes a subsidiary of Pricol.

Next question is from the line of Aman Agarwal from Carnelian Capital.

So my question was on the ACFMS business, like that business, how are we seeing the demand in domestic as well as export market? And we were facing some issues in the exports market over the last 1, 2 years in this business, right, some slowdown and all. So how is that behaving now? And like are we seeing some green shoots in that segment? And any outlook on that side?

Exports have actually become even more headwinds we have faced in exports, and that is the cause of concern for us. We have seen offtake. We have not lost business or share of business, but the volume of business has come down because the production of the OEMs have come down in our markets, but that will be offset from the next, let's say, about 8 to 12 months or so with our disc brake business starting to pick up volumes.

Sorry, sir, disc brake business will start in what period, sir, for us?

Pardon me?

When will the revenue start flowing from the disc brakes business or like?

Disc brake revenue has already started. We have started supplies, but the ramping up is happening. But in about 8 to 12 months, we will start reaching mature large volumes.

Understood, sir. Sir, one final question from my side. Sir, if I see this quarter's employee cost, it has increased despite the lower revenues in this quarter compared to last quarter. So like is there some one-off or like this is the recurring run rate? And like any reason for this increase in employee cost?

As a percentage of revenue, it is the employee cost. It is not an absolute number because the revenue has come down typically always this happens in every -- in quarter 3 of every year, this is something that you will see.

Right, sir. And why is that, sir? Like any reason for this quarterly phenomenon?

Because quarter 3 of every quarter 3, there are -- the revenue is always lower in the industry. Automotive industry is always Q3, post Diwali, there will be a drop and all customers shutdown and the revenue is lower, and that's a standard practice in the industry for decades.

Understood, sir. And sir, like any update on the Honda order like...

Please come back on to the queue, Mr. Agarwal, because I think already you have asked a few questions. Let's give the chance to other people to ask questions.

Next question is from the line of Jaimin Desai from Emkay Global.

Congratulations on the acquisition. Sir, firstly, just a clarification. The 13% to 15% growth number that you mentioned, that would be more near term, so Q4 or maybe next year as well?

We are expecting this growth rate over the next couple of quarters, 13% to 15% growth rate, steady growth rate we are planning to maintain over the next couple of quarters.

Got it. That's helpful. Secondly, on Sundaram Auto component margins, you guided for about INR 70 crores of EBITDA on a top line of about INR 800 crores, implying about high single-digit sort of margins, whereas we are placed quite a bit above that. How do you see margins progressing in this entity over the next couple of years? And what would be the drivers for that?

We are hoping over the next couple of quarters to increase the margin by about 200 basis points, which is why we have bought it at a lower EBITDA multiple for it to be value accretive.

Understood. And this would be largely via efficiency improvements or any other reason?

Primarily during efficiency improvements, productivity improvements and upgradation of certain machineries because the company in the last 2 years, ever since they kind of started looking at divesting noncore businesses, not much of attention has gone into this business.

Understood. Just final question, if I may squeeze in. Any other -- or thought process on more M&A activity have we seen?

Yes. I just mentioned earlier, we are looking at growing our plastics business, both organically and inorganically.

And in Pricol?

Pricol at this point of time, we don't have anything in the offering.

Next question is from the line of Khush Nahar from Electrum PMS.

So first question was, how much debt would be there on the books after the consolidation?

I will request my CFO, what would be the consolidated debt post closure of the Sundaram transaction on the consolidated balance sheet?

On a consolidated basis, as we stand today, there is 0 debt. After the closure of Sundaram deal, we will hardly have INR 80 crores of debt.

Consolidated, including Sundaram.

Including Sundaram, sir, we'll have INR 80 crores of debt.

And second bookkeeping question just was that our other expenses have been increasing maybe 3%, 4% for a couple of quarters, 2 quarters. And on third quarter, it's around 6% degrowth. So is there any particular reason? Or is this the operational efficiencies that is kicking in?

Operational efficiencies and one-off, we use consultants to do certain technology agreements. And also -- for this deal, we have engaged for due diligence and everything, we have engaged people. These are the costs.

I'm saying it has reduced by 6% in this quarter. So that's because of the operating leverage only?

Yes, yes. See, you got it correctly. In Q3, it has come down. Q2, it was a little higher. Q3, because there are a couple of operational efficiency, which has come in and some cost reduction initiatives, which we have started because of that, the cost has come down.

So we can assume that 6.8% [ in sort of ] revenue as a percentage should be maintained going ahead instead of...?

Kind of.

Next question is from the line of Suraj, retail investor.

Yes, sir. Just one thing that I wanted to understand. Who are the biggest competitors that you're facing in the industry? Is it the auto OEMs? Or is it the auto ancillary manufacturers? And secondly, what is the competitive advantage that you have as compared to your competitors? Is it in terms of the network effect or technological effect? So these are 2 things that I wanted to understand.

We still hold the largest market share for 2-wheelers and off-road vehicles and commercial vehicles in the driver information system, which is our principal line of business. It's a combination of quality, cost, delivery, service and technology, which is why we have the lion's share of the market. Our competitive landscape is companies like Continental, companies like Nippon Seiki, companies like Visteon and companies like Minda. These are our 4 principal competitors. In spite of which we are maintaining a very healthy, 40-plus percent market share in 2-wheelers and 80-plus percent market share in commercial vehicles and off-road vehicles. It's only because of our continuous investment in technology. Even today, out of our 1,000 employees in total, white collar, 480 employees are in just in R&D and technology.

Next question is from the line of Richa from Equitymaster.

My question is related to what share of revenue is coming from the electric vehicle segment? And also, if you could just give some commentary on what's happening on the BMS licensing agreement and the plan to manufacture in-house?

I'll request our CEO, Mr. Ganesh, to answer both those questions. On the BMS and on the electric vehicle, what percentage of sales of our total sales?

See, the EV contribution has been continuously increasing on the driver information system space. We are a major supplier to all the traditional OEMs like Hero MotorCorp, TVS Motor and also Bajaj. So our pie on EV has been continuously increasing. But of course, some degree of maturity will be reached after 12 months because all these OEMs are evolving in terms of the volume. But the pie of EV is continuously increasing, number one. Second thing is on the battery management...

Sorry to interrupt, [indiscernible] below 10% or higher than that?

Currently, it is below 10% because if you see the total pie of the EV compared to the total 2-wheeler manufacturing is still quite low, and it is evolving, okay? We are very careful in the penetration into the start-up EVs, primarily because a lot of fluctuation is happening currently in the volume. Okay. So secondly, our battery management system is under development, and it is under testing with a few of our key OEMs. Maybe H2 of this year, we will start some business on the BMS. And next year would be a full year of the battery management system sale.

Sir, any kind of quantitative guidance on what kind of opportunity we are looking at here?

It would be a little difficult for us to talk about the numbers and value. But what we can tell you is that it is currently under testing with our key OEMs.

Unless it is tested and passed, and we will not be able to indicate any volumes.

Next question is from the line of Siddharth Chhabra from Minerva Asset Advisors.

Can you give me the asset turns and the working capital as a percentage of sales for Sundaram Auto Components?

One minute, please. I'll hand it over to our CFO...

Can you please repeat the question, asset turns of Pricol or Sundaram?

No, asset turns of Sundaram and the working capital as a percentage of sales for Sundaram, what's the number there?

Working capital, they work with 20 days of working capital, gentlemen. And asset turns, it is a very asset-light entity because all the investments were very old investments. So asset turns are pretty high there.

Can you give me a number? Is it possible?

Assets are pretty old. That's what the...

I don't think he has a ready-made number right now on the call. If you can send in an e-mail to our secretarial department, our CFO, will be able to answer.

Okay. Yes. I'll do that. Now secondly, can you tell me regarding the TFT clusters within 2-wheeler market. Can you give me an idea about how do you see the ramp-up in penetration there? And what the current penetration would be? And how do you see the ramp-up, let's say, next 3 to 5 years probably?

TFT cluster, again, is an evolving technology in the 2-wheeler. Today, 5% to 7% of our revenue is coming from TFT clusters. And as more EV is going up, TFT is something is going to become a major feature in all these vehicles, not only on the EV, in the recent times, even ICE engine has started adopting the TFT primarily because of the flexibility, whatever it offers in terms of many features that can be added in quick time. So we foresee that it is going to have good growth in the next 2 years of -- if you remember, 5 years back, many of the mechanical clusters got converted into LCD. And then today, the same thing is happening, moving -- migration happening from LCD to TFT.

Okay. And by penetration, I meant in the overall industry, like you gave me the revenue figure, that's great. That will be also helpful. But in terms of the industry, in terms of 2-wheeler, how many units would be having the TFT. And also, you said except EV also, there's adoption coming. So within that, where is it coming? Scooters, bikes, where are you seeing this penetration increasing?

We are seeing TFT adoptation both in the scooter and motorcycle, both, okay? It is not because of it is a scooter, EV or ICE or motorcycle. TFT is a convenience for people to have more features like the onboard navigation or connectivity, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, screen mirroring, many of the features, if you have seen, Pricol already has launched that in the market with multiple 2-wheeler customers, okay? Now if you ask me 2-wheeler TFT in specific, we are quite proud to say that nearly 80% of the TFT business of whatever is there in the 2-wheeler is with Pricol.

Okay. So 80% of TFT, 2-wheeler industry is with Pricol?

2-wheeler TFT, 75% to 80% market share is maintained by Pricol.

Okay. That's great. I'll rejoin the queue. But just before I go, can you give me an average price of the TFT...

I think already a lot of questions has gone. I think there are a lot of more people waiting in the queue, please.

Next question is from the line of Praveen Yadav, an individual investor.

Yes. Sir, I have 2 questions. The first is about the product mix. Basically, what is the volume and revenue product mix in terms of 2-wheeler, passenger vehicle, commercial and off-road vehicles? And my second question is about how we are progressing on e-cockpit commercialization. Are we need to get any order from any customer in the near future?

So to give you a rough product mix in terms of vertical, this is a little rough. 65% of our revenue comes from the 2-stroke 3-wheelers. If you see on the automotive side, 65% to 70% of the total India vehicle production comes from the 2-wheeler. This is one. And Pricol follows the same standard of what the industry has in terms of percentage. That is why we are a very balanced company cutting across all segments of the market. Second, 10% of our revenue approximately comes from the commercial vehicle segment, okay? Now I'm including tractors also, though it is not a part of the automotive since we are a major supply to tractors, 5% to 7% comes from the tractor industry. And off-road vehicle, 90% of the market share is with Pricol on the off-highway vehicle, the construction equipment, where 7% to 8% of our total pie comes from the off-road vehicle and the remaining 10% comes from the personal passenger vehicle segment.

Okay. Got it, sir. The other one is about the e-cockpit commercialization. Can you please [indiscernible]

yes. I will break up e-cockpit into 2. One is you have to be on the infotainment before we go into the e-cockpit. Infotainment already actually is under testing with certain key 4-wheeler customers at this point of time. We are jointly evaluating our infotainment. Step 2 would be in parallel, we are developing the e-cockpit, which will have the integrated connected cluster with the infotainment. That is also under testing. In fact, the good news is even 2-wheeler now has started looking into the infotainment system in a larger manner. And our product is getting validated with some of the 2-wheeler customers as well on the infotainment. We hope from the next financial year because this takes a longer time for the software maturity and the testing, which has to happen at our place and the customer place. So we expect from next financial year, not from '25, '26. '26, '27 onwards, we expect good amount of revenue to come from the infotainment and e-cockpit.

Next question is from the line of Bismith Nayak from RW Advisors.

Sir, you hinted at loss of sales due to supply chain issues in your initial question -- initial answers. So can you please quantify this? And are these issues largely over with?

These issues are getting under control. About 50% mitigation has been done and the other 50% mitigation will happen in Q4 as we speak. And supplies will be normalized from Q1 of FY '26.

Understood. So the 13% to 15% Pricol's guidance is adjusted for this also, I'm assuming?

Yes.

Okay. Another, sir, did I -- just a clarification that exports will remain subdued for the next 8 to 12 months. Is that -- did I hear it correctly?

At least for 8 quarters.

Oh, 8 quarters. Okay. So Pricol, domestic mostly plus SSE ramping up from high single to low double digit. So we should expect the EBITDA...

Bismith, you are breaking up, could you repeat again, please?

Yes, sir. So with export remaining subdued and domestic as well as SSE's ramp-up, Sundaram's ramp-up, we should expect EBITDA to be somewhere around 11% to 12%?

Around 11% to 12% is right, yes.

Okay. Okay. And lastly, sir, what will be the PAT figure for -- or PBT figure for Sundaram?

Why don't we comment about Sundaram once the acquisition is complete and we take control because technically, as of today, it is not Pricol Precision.

Next question is from the line of Vipulkumar Anopchand Shah from Sumangal Investment. The line for the current question has been dropped. We'll move to the next question from the line of Khush Nahar from Electrum PMS.

So my question was regarding Sundaram. Could you elaborate who are our major competitors? And second, sir, what kind of CapEx we are seeing in Pricol and in Sundaram for the next 3 years?

Sundaram, we will talk about, like I said, all questions pertaining to Sundaram, broad contours of the deal have been given. Once we complete the acquisition and first 3 months, we work on the company, we will be in a better position to give you more figures of how much CapEx is required, how much more supply and demand, et cetera. Recall, we are at the fag end of a INR 650 crore CapEx cycle, which I've been talking about for the last 3 years. We are at the fag end of that last INR 200 crores of that CapEx cycle.

Okay. And sir, major competitors for Sundaram, if you can just comment?

There are plenty of people in the plastics industry. There is [indiscernible], for example, there is Motherson in some cases. There is Tata Plastics in some cases.

Okay, sir. So just how do we plan to compete with these players? Like what differentiates us?

Basically, The company is competing with all of these players and making money. So we will continue to do the same thing and do it better.

[Operator Instructions] next question is from the line of Siddharth Chhabra from Minerva Asset Advisor.

So we are talking about the CapEx that last 3 years, this INR 600 crore cycle is going to be finished. Now do you have -- is it possible to give any idea over the next 3 years what the kind of CapEx is going to be? Any range possible?

Now we have just gone through a heavy round of CapEx. Now we will go CapEx light unless there is any inorganic growth before going through the next phase of growth.

So maintenance CapEx, and that would be in the range of?

So about -- our maintenance CapEx is about INR 100 crores to INR 120 crores a year.

Okay. So unless there's acquisition, this is going to be your yearly run rate going forward?

Yes. Sundaram, of course, once it becomes Pricol Precision, we will then work out the CapEx plans for that company. And in about 3 to 6 months, we will have a CapEx plan for that company.

Okay. Right. And earlier, the EBITDA margins were being discussed going forward. And you said that it should be expected in the 11% to 12% range.

So I always maintain that we will be on a consolidated basis at around 13%. Now with Sundaram joining the table, it is going to be a lower average because the plastics business is a lower average. But in terms of rupee EBITDA, obviously, it is going to go up.

Okay. But you maintain the overall margin at 13%?

Overall margin of Pricol will be maintained. But when Sundaram consolidated, it is going to come down lower because plastics is a single-digit margin and not a double-digit EBITDA product.

Next question is from the line of Smit Shah from Monarch Networth Capital.

So my question is on the ACFMS segment. What kind of growth can we expect in that segment? And what are the levers of growth in that segment?

Levers of growth in the segment will be the fuel pump module, which will ramp up over the next year and disc brake, which will ramp up in the next 12 to 24 months. These will be the major growth drivers coming to the ACFMS segment in the coming quarters.

Okay. Sir, disc brake, we have started the supply, right, but not in a meaningful manner right now. That is the status, right?

No, we have started supplies already of the disc brake and our product is all the field. Now it is in a ramp-up phase.

Next question is from the line of Swapnil Gupta from White Pine Investment Management Private Limited.

Sir, what is the current penetration of TFT clusters in 2-wheeler? And going forward, say, in the next 2 to 3 years, what will be the TFT penetration?

I think this question was answered earlier today by our CEO.

I joined late. Okay.

Ladies and gentlemen, we will take this as the last question for the day. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for the closing comments.

Thank you very much all for your participation in this conference and look forward to seeing you in the full year FY '25 results conference call, where we will also be able to throw a little bit more light on our new acquisition, which would be complete and in our management control by then. Thank you very much. Good evening.

Thank you. On behalf of Pricol Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.