Prime Financial Group Limited (FRST) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to Prime Financial Group Limited's FY '25 Financial Results. My name is Natalie Simmons, and I am the Chief Operating Officer. I'm joined today by the Managing Director and Chairman, Simon Madder; and also from Finance, Peter Bergin. Before I hand over to Simon to present the formal part of this presentation, just a reminder that this meeting is being recorded, and there will be an opportunity for about 20 minutes of Q&A at the end of the formal presentation. [Operator Instructions] If you would like to submit any questions, please do so by pressing the button at the bottom of your screen and we will endeavor to answer all of those questions end of the formal presentation. Now I'd like to hand over to Simon Madder.

Fantastic. Thanks, Nat, and thank you, everyone, for your attendance. A really great set of results delivered by the team today, which we're very proud to talk through. So we might just jump straight on to the first slide, if we can, please. So a bit of background just again for those of you that may not be fully aware as to what Prime do. We are an advice, capital and asset management firm. We have been around now for 27 years, but we were established on a foundation principle of connected advice experiences, so where a client can get everything that they need under one roof. We are today very focused around delivering services, insights and investments. And that's typically for emerging businesses, medium-sized businesses. They're often founder-led and also investments for high-net-worth investors. So today, we have around about $1.9 billion of funds under management, which is quite significantly up on last year, which I'll talk to in a moment. 225 fantastic team members that work every day to deliver value for our clients, a global footprint and as I said, 27 years in business. Next slide, please. So just in terms of how we go about doing this, we are very much one connected team. So we have been building this team and building this service stack both organically and also by acquisition. And what you're seeing on screen here is that we are seeking to be across both the business services needs and the wealth and asset management needs of our clients. It's pretty much not something that we can't do for our clients under this one roof, and this will just continue to expand out, but also to consolidate. Next slide, please. So let's talk about the hard numbers and how the year has actually played out. Impressively, our revenue is up 21%. Our guidance was 15% to 20% for the year. So there's an outperformance there. We've now got $49.4 million of revenue in FY '25. But importantly, it is actually now $55 million of ongoing revenue from continuing operations. Revenue per FTE as an employee was up 6% to $220,000. Labor as a percentage of turnover revenue was 55%, unchanged. Our underlying EBITDA margin was at 24%, slightly down on 25% in the previous year. Underlying EBITDA was up 17% in the middle of our guidance of 15% to 20%. Reported EBITDA up an impressive 39% to $10.6 million, reported EPS up 37% to $0.0187 per share. Net profit after tax and amortization up 42% to $5.9 million and our debt at a fairly modest 1.3x underlying EBITDA. Next slide, please. These results have allowed us to continue to increase our dividend. Our dividend, our final dividend is up 5% to $0.89 per share, and the total dividends for the year are up 4% to $0.0166 per share. I spoke briefly about funds under management prior to this, and that is now up 58%. That's a combination of some growth, but also the Lincoln acquisition that took place in H2, which gave us the benefit of an additional $600 million of funds under management. Importantly, also, our client numbers have grown, our ideal client numbers have grown. We now have an additional 3,300 high-net-worth investors that are part of our firm by virtue of the Lincoln acquisition as well. Next slide, please. So in terms of some of the operational highlights to pair with what we've achieved financially. From a people and culture perspective, our staff numbers but for acquisition have remained steady at around 225 team members. Importantly, we've been able to hold the number of team members in our centralized or shared services team, which will allow us to continue to grow through M&A and other growth initiatives. Team ownership has actually been extended to not just be the Australian-based team, but also the overseas team members as well. And that's important in terms of the ownership culture we have within our firm. We've also been investing in our team. So there's additional mentoring and leadership programs that have been implemented. It's going to be really important that our team have got the knowledge in order to grow with the firm and also make sure that we're taking advantage of the technology opportunity ahead of us. In terms of M&A and integration, which is a key part of our strategy, and I'll talk to what the run rate has been over the last 3 years in a moment. But importantly, Altor, one of the acquisitions we've recently undertaken, has actually achieved its 3-year target for EBITDA in year 1. That goes to our ability collectively, including the previous owners, to work together with the team to make sure that we are integrating deeply and achieving growth across both not just part of the business, which is Altor, but also our corporate finance and origination capability. The Lincoln transaction was completed in May of the second half, and that is actually our largest acquisition that we've undertaken so far in the last 3 years of the 4 that we have completed at around about $10 million of revenue. I'll touch on that in a bit more detail shortly. In terms of funding and finance, we're well funded for our growth ambitions. In November, we were able to secure an additional facility with Westpac, which has enlarged to $41 million from $24 million. And that is working well with our typical acquisition structure when we do undertake our M&A. We are usually having a situation where we are 20% to 50% of the consideration is shares in Prime to continue that business owner mindset with the remainder being paid over a 3-year period of time. So in terms of our goals and our objectives for growth, we're well positioned from a funding point of view. Next slide, please. Growth in technology, no doubt an area that is talked about a lot in the press and particularly in financial services. But we are continuing to expand our business by virtue of M&A, and that will complement our organic growth strategy, our OneConnected strategy of delivering more value and services for our clients under the one roof. We're enhancing our ability to deliver more value and services for our clients by virtue of a dedicated sales and account management program, which will be important to make sure that we uncover all of the needs of our clients. We have also undertaken a full technology review, which, given what the future might hold, has been particularly important. The focus of that review is now going to come to an implementation process, which is all around data consolidation, having a group-wide CRM and making sure that we're starting to pilot AI as it applies to our business. In terms of Lincoln indicators, the great part of that transaction and the fantastic client base and team is the fact that they have a very scalable platform that we'll be able to use from an investment point of view and actually unify how our clients come into the Prime Group. In terms of marketing events and building the Prime brand and making sure that our clients know exactly what we can do for them, we held over 60 events for the year. We either held them or we participated in them to get our brand out there and to make sure that people know that within this mid-market space, which we want to make sure we take a leadership position, the people know that what we can do for them as a firm. In terms of our service offering and our clients, via the Lincoln transaction, we're able to add an additional capability to our business. We strongly believe the clients should be able to choose how they engage with their wealth manager. So we now have a subscription research offering. We have a managed solution, a group of managed solutions for our clients and a full financial advice offering as well. So we've really opened up the funnel in the ways that clients can interact and come into the Prime Group. As I mentioned before, we now have 3,300 additional high-net-worth investors, which is 10x larger than what we previously had. And there is a very good process that the team have worked through within Lincoln to have clients subscribe for research and then also participate in the managed solutions. That's something that we're seeking to replicate more broadly across our firm. We continue to deepen our capability for business owners around funding, growth, succession and obviously, accounting as well. And there is a massive opportunity to participate strongly in this intergenerational wealth transfer across both investments and also business. We've continued to expand our leadership position around supporting innovative businesses that need access to funding for product development and making sure that we are consolidating our unique advisory capability and also funds management capability in the business of sport and entertainment. Next slide, please. So these are the themes that are driving our business and also our decision-making. I mentioned it just a moment ago, intergenerational wealth and business transfer is a decade-long opportunity, and we want to make sure that we are positioned for that. We believe we are already taking a leadership position also in private markets and alternative assets and funding property, all growing parts of what we do. We want to continue to consolidate what we are doing there, and there are some strong tailwinds supporting what we're doing. M&A and business succession, not just within our own business, but obviously in the broader market is a continuing thing that we will participate in as an advice, capital and asset management firm. In terms of technology, it is widely talked about AI is well publicized as potentially being transformative. We're making sure that we've done the reviews. We're preparing our team. We're empowering our team and making sure that our clients can interact with us the way that they want to. The final point is probably the most important point. Everything that we're doing and the various things that are playing out is to position us as that leading platform within that big market space for businesses and high-net-worth investors. Next slide, please. So a couple of most of the numbers here. I won't dive into a huge amount more detail, but it is worthwhile touching on the growth within the Wealth segment in terms of what we have done. So we had a 38% growth in Wealth and a 7% growth in Business, which has delivered that overall 21% increase in our revenue. Most of the other things on that slide have already been talked to, so I won't spend too much more time on that. But it was encouraging to see net profit after tax and amortization up 42% and net profit after tax up 59% and EPS up 37%. Next slide, please. I think this gives a good shape of what our revenue growth has been on a more continuous number of years. So what you're seeing here is anywhere from 18% to 28% growth in our revenue over the last 5 years. Importantly, around about 70% of our revenue is recurring in nature, which makes our earnings profile more stable. We also aren't walking away from our commitments and our goals to achieve $100 million in revenue by FY '28 to FY '30. But importantly, we believe we can get back to that 30% EBITDA margin, and it's not just about revenue. It's about earnings and making sure that it drops to the bottom line. And what you're seeing here in the bottom part of this slide is a really encouraging shape, a continuingly encouraging shape around our revenue. So you're seeing there that the Wealth component or just Wealth in isolation as a division was up 45%, SMSF was up 19%. That was important because it was off in the previous year. So it's good to see that returning to a growth profile. Our Accounting division was up 11% and capital was pretty flat for the year. That is the more transactional part of our business. But when you look at Wealth, SMSF and Accounting, a lot of the revenue there is actually recurring in nature. Next slide, please. I thought it would be worthwhile highlighting today just the increased scale of acquisition that we're undertaking. So what you're seeing here is over the last 3 years, the transactions that we've undertaken, not a huge number of transactions, 4 well-selected transactions are very much people led and making sure that it fits within our culture and our service stack and our ideal clients. But we did one transaction for $3 million of revenue in FY '23. We did 2 in FY '24, including Altor Capital that achieved its 3-year target in the first 12 months. So it's a 33% increase in revenue acquired. So then a jump up to being a 250% increase in revenue acquired by virtue of our largest transaction being Lincoln Indicators. So that gives you a bit of a feel for how we're thinking about the future. We will be more focused on M&A, but importantly, a deep integration into our business. Nothing sits in isolation. We leverage the shared services model that we've got, and we make sure that there is a clear opportunity to deliver more services to any acquired client base. Next slide. Thank you. So in terms of our underlying EBITDA and our margin, you'll see there that it's almost doubled over the last 5 years, up 17% between '24 and '25. And what we're learning as we continue to develop this business and particularly over the last 3 years is how to scale more and more efficiently. There is no doubt an element of investment. There's an element of trial, error, modifying, improving, but now we're into consolidation mode. You'll see that we haven't actually rolled out a lot of new services in the last 12 months. And what you see is consolidating what we've already got and making sure that the existing client base are getting more of what we've got to offer. In terms of the EBITDA margin, it has fallen from 30% 3 or so years ago to about 24%, but we do expect that to start to move back up as we scale and as we don't seek to increase the centralized and shared services costs within our business. We had to build that capability around about 3 years ago in order to accelerate and be able to double our revenue and now look to double it again. Clearly, technology and AI will play to what we're trying to do for the future. It will be an important part of how we think about getting the right mix of people and technology. Next slide, please. So in terms of our balance sheet, I've already touched on our net debt to underlying EBITDA at 1.3x, which is pretty modest. We've got clearly some capacity within our funding with Westpac and net operating cash flow is probably the one red mark in our result for these 12 months. We have too much tie up in working capital. We're seeking to reduce that progressively over the next 12 months. That was probably the one area where we need to improve. That was only positive $2.9 million for the year versus $5.7 million the year before. So that's an area of focus and improvement for us. Next slide, please. Dividends I've touched on, but you'll see here from this chart that they continue to increase but at a more modest pace. We're still really pleased to deliver a 5% uplift in the dividend for the final. And we do -- we are actually offering a DRP for the final dividend and the payment date is the 25th of September. Next slide. Thank you. Now let's just touch on the strategy and some of the key points of how we're really focusing the business. Next slide, please. These pillars haven't changed, and they are absolutely where we spend the most amount of time thinking and building our business. And this really is how we think about the business moving forward. So a prime place to be making sure that we've got the right environment for our people and very much a business owner mindset. As I said, half of our team have equity in our business and 46% of the firm is owned by the team. It's really important that not just for the existing team, but for any business that is acquired that there remains a business owner mindset. We want to keep on compelling the client to do the things that they need to do to achieve their ambitions within our 4 walls. So making sure that we are very connected and we've got integrated solutions and technology and teams that are talking to each other. We're continuing to simplify the business, and that's where you see that we haven't rolled out new services in the last 12 months, but focus on what we already had and scaling those. And importantly, also growing our revenue and our earnings, both organically via acquisition and empowered by technology. And on to our final slide, if we could, please. So this is the strategy in its simplest form. Organic growth. That's all about the products and services that we've got and our cross-sell. Delivering accretive acquisitions, we have a growing pipeline. We think that we are an attractive place for founder-led businesses to join and be part of the vision that we've got for the future. Scaling through, obviously, the size of the transactions we're doing, the size of our team, the investment in technology, et cetera, and infrastructure. But that efficiency will drive earnings improvement. And obviously, that last point, again, growing our revenue and our underlying EBITDA, we are very focused on doubling again over the next 3 to 5 years. And again, returning that EBITDA margin to 30%, which we think is very achievable. So overall, a fantastic set of results by a really exceptional team that have worked really hard to make sure that our clients have been served well and that our shareholders are getting the right return. So a big thank you to everyone that has delivered this result and also anyone that has supported us on that journey.

Thank you, Simon. And we might just kick straight into some questions that have started to come through. You touched there on $100 million by FY '28 to FY '30. How confident are you in achieving that?

I think the past experience of this last 3 years is constructive when you're thinking about the future. So to have a team that's been able to build itself into a bigger business that can accommodate the sort of growth that we've already achieved, which is that doubling to get to $55 million of continuous revenue. I think is really important. And then I guess when you're starting to think about how the movement from that $55 million through to $100, there's an organic growth component to that. At the moment, our organic growth is sort of settling somewhere between 6% and 10%. The last 12 months was around about 7% of the total of the 21%. But then you've got 2/3 of that growth coming via acquisition. So making sure that you've got a dedicated team that are out there searching for the right partners for the future and making sure that you're doing the right deals for the right reasons. So I think the history of the last 3 years has been constructive. I know what the pipeline looks like in terms of future opportunities. And I think as our firm has continued to grow, we become more and more appealing to more parties. So a long answer to a simple question, very confident and very confident in the team and the capability and what we've executed on so far, which hasn't been easy.

Thank you. And can you delve a little bit further into that organic and inorganic growth and the split?

Yes. So 21% revenue growth, of which around about 7% was organic and 14% came via acquisition. We only had a 2-month contribution from Lincoln Indicators, which was completed in May. So not a material contribution. That will be perhaps even more material for FY '26. And again, a great performance and contributor to that 14% that came via M&A from the Altor transaction. Again, achieving that 3-year target in the first 12 months was really impressive and really proud of how everyone worked together to achieve that outcome. So I think we've got -- if you look back over those sort of numbers across Accounting, Wealth, SMSF, et cetera, you're seeing a good healthy combination of organic and also acquired revenue growth. But I think that with some of the technology that we're looking at putting in place, group CRMs, sales and account management, we can likely accelerate the organic growth over time.

Okay. And you also touched on the 3 acquisitions of Altor, PRS and Lincoln Indicators. Can you give the percentage breakdown of that?

Yes. So the -- probably the main contributor, as I mentioned, was really Altor from an acquisition perspective. That business essentially doubled its original revenue that we acquired the business on. That again, as I've said already, is an impressive outcome. We had a full year contribution from EPM, the remuneration consulting and employee share plan management business, which again was great. I think the thing that we like about what's happened so far over the last 3 or so years is the businesses that we are buying, merging and integrating in are achieving at least what we started with and in most cases, growing. So I think that goes to how we are putting things together, how we are respecting founders and making sure that we're all working together. So we've had a really good contribution across a small contribution from Lincoln, as I said, but the main contribution has been from Altor and behind that would be EPM.

Perfect. Thank you. And reported EBITDA was up strongly. Can you touch on what was the key driver there?

Yes. So there's -- over the past probably 12 months, there's been a fewer nonrecurring items within our numbers. So we would have spent close to $1 million in the prior year around developing new service lines. That's actually fallen substantially to only about $100,000, which goes to the consolidation of services that we have focused on. So that's meant that the reported number has improved quite significantly from the previous year. The nonrecurring items have halved over that 12-month period of time. That's been the main driver of the difference. But obviously, underlying EBITDA was also up 17% as well, but more materially when you take into account the nonrecurring items.

And then can you touch on those nonrecurring items for this year and what they relate to?

Yes. So there's acquisition costs, there's new product costs, there's staff that are not continuing in the business thereafter. But -- and there's a small number of restructuring costs involved in that. But all up, I think it worked out to be about $1.3 million versus $2.6 million in the previous year.

Perfect. Thank you. Can you provide a little bit more color also to how the 3 acquisitions are performing? And are they in line with the expectations?

Yes. So I think the hardest part, I think, about any acquisition is really that [indiscernible] that you take once it's actually done. And I think what we've seen consistently is a willingness to work together. So if that exists and you get that people piece right, which I talk ad nauseam about, then you've got every likelihood of not just achieving growth within that existing business, but in fact, supporting the growth of the rest of the business. And to sort of probably give you an example, in terms of the Lincoln acquisition, which again occurred back in May. Since we commenced that business in partnership, we've had over 100 referrals into our SMSF division. We've had over, I think it's 25, financial planning leads come through for over $60 million of funds under management. We have existing Lincoln clients starting to invest in the property and the alternative asset products that we've got. And that all goes to a clear plan from day 1 and then making sure the integration team are working closely together to execute on that growth. I'd say the same thing around Altor, the way the alternative asset funds management team there have worked with our corporate finance team finding appropriate investments for the funds and our investors has been exceptional. So yes, I think across the board. And then even when I talk about the remuneration consulting and share plan business, just the amount of activities that we've had where there's been cross referrals across the business into the Business Services segment and back the other way, just really encouraging to see how it works. So it's not just about -- it's never just about the business that you've bought. It's about what they represent, what their clients might need and then for how that could be applied more substantially across the whole of our business.

Perfect. Thank you. Now if we look a little bit more forward, can you provide any guidance on FY '26?

Look, we will do that as per usual at the AGM in November. What I would say is this, we're clearly a very ambitious group. We set ourselves a goal 3 years ago to double our revenue, and we've almost doubled the earnings over a similar sort of 3- to 5-year period of time. We think that we are operating in a space that at the moment it's probably as ripe for opportunities as it's ever been. So we are having the right conversations. We are spending the time to get the things done correctly. We're investing in our people and the technology that we need for the future. And we think that there is a substantial opportunity to build a vastly bigger business than what we've currently got. But still very purposeful in terms of being clear about what it is that we're here to do. So we'll give our guidance at the AGM in November, but expect us to talk about growth because it's what our mindset is. And the opportunities are now even more so than ever inbound rather than us having to be outbound. That's very exciting.

Fantastic. And traditionally, there's been a bit of a split between H1 and H2. Do you expect the same split for the coming year?

Yes. I guess it's probably a bit of a symptom of a growing business. The second half typically is bigger than the first half. And we do expect it to typically be about a 1/3-2/3 split. I think we delivered circa $4 million of underlying EBITDA in the first half and around about $8 million in the second half of '25. So we would expect that to continue. It's probably the right shape for us.

Great. And you touched on the Lincoln Indicators acquisition that happened in May. Do you have any further appetite for some more M&A?

Yes. I think the -- we have got -- we're in a position where we have made it clear to parties that we are keen to engage. We are being very specific about where we see that across both the business segment and also the wealth and asset management segment. So yes, we're not being shy about making the right approaches and having the right approaches come to us. So really confident. I'd like to see that -- it's not so much the volume of deals as it is probably the scale of them and the ones that fit most sweetly into where we can probably add the most amount of value. So yes, we are very open to discussions.

And how are you going to fund the acquisition pipeline?

Yes. So we obviously do have the Westpac facility in place. So we've got quite a bit of capacity on that in excess of $20 million, $25 million capacity on that side of things. But I think we're also very considered about the way that we do a transaction. Most recently, you'll see that we have typically issued 20% to 50% of the consideration in shares. It is done on an earn-out profile as well, so typically over that 2- to 3-year period of time. So that combined with the funding facility, issuing shares, keeping that business owner mindset, that is how we will continue to transactions into the future. So that's -- there's a bit of a stepover [indiscernible]. And I should have said Peter was introduced as being part of the finance team. Peter Bergin next to me, has been instrumental in all of our M&A activity. He comes from very experienced background, has been with the firm for 6 or 7 years has really led that part of what we've done. So a lot of the credit needs to go to Peter in terms of the way he works with founders and how considered he is in that approach.

Thank you and great. And do you have a target net debt or underlying EBITDA working towards?

Yes. So we've said probably for the last 3 or 4 years that ideally, it's between 1 to 1.5x. So at the moment we're at the midpoint. You'll find that at different times just because of the way it works when you report, it might be above that or below that range. But that's really probably a sweet spot. We try to get the balance right between continuing to pay dividends and ideally at an increasing rate, retaining a little bit more cash and making sure that we've got capability for the future. But yes, we're very balanced about making sure that we don't put the business at risk, and we can keep on getting the way we allocate capital as efficiently as possible.

Great. We have a question also around AI. And obviously, while that is an opportunity, do you also see it as a challenge to any of the revenue streams currently at Prime?

Yes. I think it would be naive to not allude that there's going to be some impact. I think we're all pretty aware of what the opportunities and the risks are. And I think that, that probably played to us undertaking a very deep review of our overall technology stack. So I think it's -- AI is obviously one component of what we need to think about, but just more broadly data and CRMs and making sure that you've got all the information at hand for your clients and to deliver more value and service. But we talk a lot about making sure that we've got a culture internally to have our team feel empowered about AI. We have regular posts about that. We've done a full technology review. We're thinking about the culture and the weekly rhythm that we need to have to give our team confidence. AI will have an impact. It will remove certain tasks. I don't think it removes jobs in all. I think it removes tasks from people's jobs. And hopefully, what that does is that we can be more focused on driving value. So it will make an impact. I don't see that today, our typical client is rushing to just engage around with technology. A typical client would more probably prefer a guided solution. But with what we've done with Lincoln, clients can choose their own venture. They can buy the subscriptions, make their own investment decisions and never speak to a person if they don't want to. They can buy a managed solution or they can get a full guided financial advice model. I think what you'll see us have is a multidimensional approach to client service and ideally a unified platform that will allow us to scale.

Thank you. To get to the $100 million in revenue, which you cited over the next 3 to 5 years, how much of that do you think is going to come from an M&A pipeline?

Yes. So anywhere between, say, 65% to 75% of that growth will be via acquisition. And I think if we can achieve our continuous 6% to 10% organic growth profile in order to get to where we want to get to, it will require M&A. And I think that's why we have spent so much time preparing ourselves and ensuring that we deeply integrate. And I guess I didn't want to really make this point we are not a roll up and just leave businesses to keep on doing what they're doing previously. We deeply integrate culture, systems, processes, marketing, everything. And that's why we built such an impressive centralized team to assist to make sure this occurs. I think it's -- our philosophy is one of just let all go. We won't get the benefit for the client or for our shareholders if we did that. So I think that integration piece is super important in terms of how we think about that and right people, right roles, right businesses.

Perfect. And are you seeing a lot of opportunities in the M&A landscape?

Yes. Look, I think there's -- it's interesting. I guess we've got probably a slightly different lens on this than what maybe some other businesses in professional financial services have because we're quite broad, and we're working across accounting, SMSF, wealth management, asset management and corporate finance. We -- the audience that we can talk to is probably broader than someone that might be just simply in wealth management. Some of the concerns we have around valuations in wealth management is you are starting to see them really start to move up. And it just adds risk to any transaction. It doesn't really give you enough room for error. So to have a broader approach across all those areas means that we can probably be a little bit more picky about what we do and why we go about doing it and where we see it fitting into the family portrait. We definitely have a couple of key focus areas that we think are really important. We would love to build out additional capability in Sydney around our accounting operations. We believe that we -- there's an opportunity to really scale. So if anyone is listening and has a Sydney accounting firm that would love to potentially partner up, we'd gladly have that conversation. And I think what we're seeing is that we are delivering some great results around alternative asset investing and also property as well. So you'll see us want to continue to build up our funds under management in both of those areas in particular. That just fits really well with what we're trying to do for the future.

Great. And what do you think is actually attracting vendors to join Prime?

I think it's that respect, it sounds like a silly thing to say, but we probably have an appreciation because we have over 20 founders in our business in different parts of what we do. We probably understand that journey. We understand that ambition. I think we -- no one is seeking to clip anyone's wings when they come into Prime. It's about how do we partner up and work better together. I think we all need help in different parts of what we're trying to do. And so I think when we're having these conversations with -- across the M&A spectrum, it's people that probably appreciate that we understand the journey and we don't think we should give up on it but we just need to all acknowledge we all need help along the way. And I think what we're in a position to do, given what we've built is to help and create more value together than we can apart. And that is pretty much our motto. It's almost part of every first conversation we have. Don't do this if you don't think we are better off together than we are apart. So I know it sounds a very -- it can come off sounding a bit tight, but if you don't get that people piece right, then it just doesn't work. It doesn't matter what technology you wrap around it. So I think we are ambitious, focused, clear. We've built the infrastructure that we need. And I think people are respecting the work that's been done and that they can contribute to it and we can contribute to their journey.

Perfect. Just got some time for a couple of last questions. So how reliant are you on a stronger equity capital markets to hit your growth targets?

We don't factor that into what we're doing. So when we sit down and do our budgets, we're not sitting there necessarily saying, oh, we need the equity markets to be up 10% to achieve our goals. Remembering that we also have a pretty healthy split across nonequity market-related services as much as we do have some attachment to them either through funds under management or corporate finance. But we have a whole business services division and SMSF division, which has no relationship with equity markets at all. So I think be careful to budget on something that you've got no control over and focus on the bits and pieces where you can really impact. So no, we don't really think about that. That's not something we're holding on to nor are we budgeting for performance fees or anything like that in any of our funds. So we're not reliant on that at all.

Perfect. And it probably goes to another question that's just come through around the Lincoln acquisition and whether you see any potential conflicts of interest versus -- obviously, advised versus the managed funds. So...

Yes. I think it's a really good question and something that we are very conscious of. And this probably goes back to our philosophy around the choose your own adventure model and making sure that you're really clear about what service or product that you're delivering. And when we think about what Lincoln have brought to our organization, which is substantial and important, and we really respect -- we have got this research solution for what are typically DIY investors that want some information to make their own decision. We often find that almost 90% of those people decide at some point in time to say, okay, great, I can make a call on bits and pieces in my portfolio, but I wouldn't mind a managed solution. And so both of those aspects of what we do, whether it's a managed fund or it's the research, that's all under the general advice model. Once it moves into a full financial advice model, we're not charging fees on our own products or anything like that. That's completely done outside of that environment. So I think we've taken the view that there's this massive unmet advice need. Financial literacy probably needs to improve. And so don't be prescriptive about how people come to get a solution based on what they need or they might want. But no, we don't think about the conflicts of interest because we just don't engage with it.

Great. And you spoke briefly about the account management sales strategy. How is the cross-referral and OneConnected strategy progressing?

Yes. I think solid would be probably the best description of it. Again, we look back to where we've had our performance like in Altor, where that's required 2 key areas of our business to work really closely together and to bring forward that 3-year performance. Yes, and we look at also the encouraging early doors response from the Lincoln clients for what else we can offer to them around SMSF and other managed solutions. So that's really encouraging as part of that OneConnected piece. But I think the reason why we've now made a concerted effort to review our technology is that if you don't have consolidated clean data, you can't really be very -- or as present for your clients as you might otherwise be. I think we've done a lot of the work around the periphery. So having events, which are often attended by 30 -- could be 10, 30 or 100 people where we're talking to clients about what we can do in totality, that works really well. But you want to be continuously on around account management and being able to make sure that you're offering. So that's a hole in our strategy at the moment. It will probably take us 6 to 9 months to deploy the CRM the way that we want to and to position it appropriately. But I think that will really enhance the CRM, the technology and the data along with our team being brought up to speed on how to have the right conversations. Just -- again, it's just part of the foundation piece as you push through $100 million plus and want to grow the business significantly.

Thank you. And thank you, Simon. Thank you, Peter, and thank you to all of you for joining us today. That brings us to the end of the formal presentation and the Q&A. And thank you for your support and wish you all the very best for the rest of the day.

Thanks, Nat.