Procore Technologies, Inc. (PCOR) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

All right. Well, I hope everyone enjoyed lunch. We're lucky enough to have Matthew Puljiz, the SVP of Finance at Procore Technologies today. Matt, thanks so much for joining us.

Yes. Happy to be here.

All right. So we've had a front row seat as Procore scaled from $500 million to $1 billion plus in revenue. What were some of the key learnings along the way? And what do you believe will be the enabling factors for Procore to capture the next $1 billion in revenue?

I have never worked at a vertical software company before Procore. I was in horizontal software. It is very different. You're going to hear the word customer and customer relationship success at every meeting ad nauseam at this conference. It is a little different, and I would argue special when you're doing it for one industry, and you end up becoming very ingrained with them and you go to like events like World of Concrete and a lot of the big construction like third-party events, and it just kind of feels like you're part of a community, if you will, that is really neat. And then you can start to see how you build a really interesting business that supports and serves that industry and it becomes even more special. The other thing that's become very -- sometimes painfully aware to me is how the cycles move. So I remember when I joined in COVID, our old CFO at that time, Paul, he was explaining to me, this has been -- I'm going to warn you right now. This is like COVID was not good to us. Like all those things you've seen with Zoom assume the opposite for us. But his theory was the cycle will start to turn back up, and we should be about 6 months ahead of that in terms of investment and bookings and he nailed it. And we started to see acceleration in '21 and '22 and then the cycle started to turn back down. And so anyways, long answer, but I've been here almost 5 years, and I think I'm going to see a full cycle, which is pretty rare for a 5-year stretch. But those are the 2 things that come to mind when I hear about like what's been the last 5 years.

So when does Paul think we're going to get out of this cycle?

I mean that's why he's not here today. He's trading right now and it's PA.

Jokes aside, like can you give us an update on what you're seeing from an overall demand perspective? Like obviously, we have been in this kind of contraction cycle for construction for the last several months. So what are you observing out there in terms of the customer conversations and the demand environment more broadly?

I mean the good news is we feel very, very positive internally, very, very strong. We had a big exec on site a couple of weeks ago. We'll talk about that probably more in this conversation. So all things considered very positively. With that said, though, the macro is still tough. So if you look at U.S. construction, this is all like you can get this data in the U.S. census. It's about a $2 trillion industry, remove single-family home and home improvements, then you get from a TAM to a SAM, right? And our SAM is really nonresidential and multifamily construction. You can follow how that SAM has grown. And this year, it's had negative growth, about negative 2% growth. So the 14% revenue growth that we put up last quarter, we look at that relative to that SAM. And so it's about a 16-point spread. Sometimes that spread has been as high as 20%, as low as 10%. So we're close to average on what that spread has been, that's kind of the factual answer to your question. Going forward, we're still going to assume a conservative tough macro. But that industry typically troughs at around negative 3. I don't know if we're at the trough, but my sense is we're probably close to it. So that's a good news.

I mean, $2 trillion construction TAM is massive. So I guess like -- I think one of the things investors debate is Procore is so early in this opportunity at $1 billion plus in revenue relative to the scale of the market opportunity. So how should we think about the pace of digitization within the construction market? Because arguably, Procore has a deflationary value proposition that should sell well in these types of down cycles.

Yes. I mean we don't really notice a change in interest in products in up cycles and down cycles, to your point. Where you do see it more though is on how much volume they're willing to commit or commit in ahead of those cycles. You can make the argument, and we have customer ROI reports on our website showing how much more -- less litigation you'll deal with, how much more profits typically customers have, how much more volume per person we have. These are all very compelling reasons to pick a product. And you don't get any pushback from that even in markets like this, the pushback is where you get, I don't know how much bigger my business will be 1, 4 years from now. And so I'm going to start with a smaller volume commit and inch my way up, so to speak.

Yes. I'm curious like how much incremental progress you've seen in construction firms adopting digital solutions since you started? And like how much runway there still is? Or said differently, how ubiquitous has Procore become within these general and subcontractors that you're aiming to land on the platform?

We're probably at that mark where the brand recognition is quite strong in the U.S., particularly the mid-market and up, where people have either used us as a collaborator or are strongly considering becoming a customer. And then once you get past the general contractor in the mid-market and up in the U.S. and you start to get into the subcontractor, particularly down market, owner and then outside the U.S., then you start to become a lot less penetrated and a bit more nascent. There's a lot more of our marketing brand push than sales push we do in those markets versus the U.S. So you start to see that kind of distinguish there.

I'm curious with the collaborator model, like it doesn't get a ton of play like in the public forums, but I think it's really important to kind of the top of funnel activity from a customer perspective. So what are you guys doing to accelerate the conversion of some of those collaborators on the platform into paying customers?

We have roughly -- I can't remember the last time we updated it. It's like a couple of million users, active users, so call it like either monthly or weekly, right? Most of those are those collaborators you're talking about. Half of our customers, so we have about 17,000 today, half of them were a collaborator previously.

Okay.

So it has been a funnel for us, and I think that will continue. There have been some product things we're doing as well. So historically, if you were a Procore customer and I was as well and you were a GC and I was a sub and we were building this hotel, I would probably work out of your account. And as the project unfolded and information came about that I needed to know to run a better business, I would take that info and put it in my account manually. And so we've been working on things to allow you to push that data over, just makes your experience more seamless, so to speak. The big one was drawings. Drawings, whether it's 2D or 3D, they get published multiple times a day. And not every drawing is pertinent to every single collaborator, but the ones that do care, they kind of want an auto magic button that says, push this to my account. And then after drawings, RFIs and submittals are the next most common thing. By the end of Q1, we think we'll have all that integration rolled out in GA. And so the combination of that funnel conversion with this, we just think this makes it more compelling for everybody to either use us or use something like us because you shouldn't be doing analog. That's too dangerous.

And I guess in the bidding process, like is there any merit to this idea that increasingly because you have all these general contractors leveraging the Procore platform that oftentimes the owner-operator is selecting the GC by virtue of kind of the efficiency gains you're getting out of Procore relative to the next GC that may be a little bit more analog in nature.

Yes. What you will -- you're seeing more and more what's known as owner mandates. And so an owner within their equivalent of an RFP will say, you need to be using some sort of tool that allows me to do X, Y and Z. Basically, it might have everything but the word Procore in there. And sometimes it will just say Procore as well. We obviously love that. One of our biggest customers is an owner and has this mandate in all of their CapEx as well. That's the best scenario that could come about. Sometimes you'll also find we are exploring, and this is very long term, right? But if our CEO is here today, he'll talk about he would love to get to a port where you've got material suppliers in the network where they can respond to bids as they're being solicited. So again, going back to this example of Matt Martino construction building this hotel, you're probably going to need a lot of rebar or whatever and to have steel suppliers reach out to you and say, I'd love to bid on this project for you as well. His vision is to kind of bring more and more of the supply chain on to one place so they can do that.

I think there generally has been a bit of a misconception around how successfully Procore has tapped into, let's say, the owner-operator opportunity or the subcontractor opportunity. So maybe talk to us a little bit about the constitution of the stakeholders as it pertains to ARR and how you're going to market to capture that opportunity.

Yes. About 60% of our business is general contractors. This is what I think a lot of this room assumes is our business, and it's the majority, it's 60%. The other 40% is owner and subcontractor. Owner is about 25%, so a bit more than half of that and sub is the rest. That's been pretty consistent actually the last few years. Today, owners are growing faster actually. But a few years ago, they were all growing -- owners and subs are actually growing at a pretty similar rate and slightly faster than GC. So I don't know if we'll ever get 1/3, 1/3 because each one is actually very different. Subcontractors are generally smaller. And to give you kind of a hunting metaphor, it's like GC or deer, subs or rabbits and owners would be, I don't know, a bare lion, right, something huge.

Okay. That's helpful. And maybe we shift to some of the business momentum. At the Analyst Day, Procore committed to a better P&L in fiscal '26 versus '25. It sounds like heading into 2Q may have been a bit of a misconception as to what that meant. I think you guys have messaged that out now. But can you share with us your framework for growth and profitability heading into '26?

Yes. I mean, obviously, the communication was not great. That weekend after earnings, I probably listened to the call like way too many times, kind of scribbling my notes. I was not happy with the outcome. What we were trying to say is, look, we just put up a 14% revenue growth quarter, again, relative to how our industry is growing, we think that's pretty good. That's your base case of growth. We're guiding 13% for the year. So there's your range, 13% to 14%. That's what you can expect from us. When we report Q3, Q4, Q1, that's what I would assume. That's who we are right now. And then in addition to that, we're expanding margins this year only a few hundred basis points, mostly because we had this big operating model change. Next year, we're marching down a path to expand at a much higher level. We're not quantifying that yet for a couple of reasons. One, we want to get through the planning process. Two, we're looking for a new CEO, and we're in active conversations with some folks. I would not want to back that person into a corner with the number. I want to give them some optionality, but rest assured that individual will have a lot of optionality on what we do. And right now, the current exec team, the current Board, we're all aligned on getting to 20%, 25%, 30%, 35% free cash flow margins, like we have these -- these pegs, these milestones in mind. The question is how fast can we get there?

That's great to hear. And I want to go back to the CEO search in a moment. But before we get there, just on the margin point, right, Procore hired a lot in the back half of '24 or early '25. So when we think about the drivers of leverage into '26, I would assume that a function of that is anniversarying some of these heavy investment cycles and starting to generate some of that sales productivity, but maybe...

No, that you nailed it. Sales and marketing leverage will be the big one you see next year. In our old go-to-market operating model, if we wanted to grow bookings 20%, we basically needed to add 15% plus capacity. You were kind of shoveling coal in a fire place effectively. And that prevented margins from expanding at the same time you were growing revenue. In this operating model, it is while painful to kind of shift and pivot to that, it allows for more productivity gains to be a bigger contributor of your bookings growth. We feel very comfortable on this topic. I had a meeting earlier today. And the first question was talk to me about S&M leverage. And I was saying, I don't know where you're going to ask me in the next 30 minutes, but I'm pretty damn confident and this is the topic I'm the most confident about right now because I do see a lot of paths here. We have a lot of optionality on that front. That will be the big place for margin contribution next year.

And then maybe more broadly on the go-to-market evolution over the past year, you've made -- you've made a lot of progress, but maybe give us an update on kind of what's exceeded your expectations, what areas might need further improvement? And then just generally, how these changes are resonating with customers?

Yes. We feel like it's behind us at this point. Like we -- I mentioned we had this on-site a couple of weeks ago. We were talking about next year or the year after that. And I don't think the operating model came up at all in day 1. So it kind of feels like it's just who we are, right? And we're definitely talking about tinkering and which segments can grow faster next year, which ones do we need to optimize? Like that's certainly on the table. But it doesn't feel like as much of a thing anymore because we're kind of past the messy part, right?

And what were the big ticket items coming out of the on-site? What was on that day 1 agenda?

I'll answer it generically, obviously, but it was -- so which of the markets do we want to make bigger bets on? So we've got several geos, 3 stakeholders and then enterprise, mid-market, SMB. And you could imagine you kind of have to have your pecking order because you're not going to be able to do everything well and without diluting yourself. So we had some bets we made there. And then how does that tie to the long-range plan, the financial model, like what investment would be necessary while still hitting those margin targets? And then what investment can we make to either sustain growth, assuming this macro kind of keeps a steady headwind. And if it turns into a tailwind, where would we potentially want to lean into that so we can be nimble on that front.

Got it. And maybe on the cross-sell piece. So it shifted from 80 volume 20 cross-sell, and now we've gone to 70-30. So that seems like maybe the tip of the spear. But what are the long-term aspirations for your expansion mix? And what products do you really expect to lead the way here?

Yes. Before I answer that, we should talk a little bit about why that is the case. So when we land a new logo, the vast majority of the ARR is on the product side because we sell our most expensive product right away, and they also commit to a very small amount of construction volume. So if I had to attribute the new logo ARR mix, it's probably like 80-20, 90-10 product heavy. That dynamic flips when you get to expansion, which is your question, because you land with a small amount of volume, most of the expand motion is getting their volume back up to their total volume amount. It has -- the cross-sell part of expansion has improved to 70-30, if you will. I can see that getting to 60-40. I personally would never want it to see it get to 50-50. I think the best part about this vertical is just how big construction is, and you do want exposure to those volumes. Yes, they are cyclical, but over time, they're up and to the right. And if you care about free cash flow per share like we do, that is the best way to kind of optimize that.

That's great. On the competitive landscape, any changes in the last year or so, particularly as some of your primary competitors continue to add more functionality to compete with Procore? What are you seeing out there?

We had that slide we put out in November on, yes, if we updated that in Q2, I think it would look very similar. If anything, I believe the greenfield ticked up year-to-date. So it's still very, very relevant. We feel extremely good on this topic. I know there's been a lot of rhetoric out there. I was sharing with someone today. It's been very dynamic. So when we went public in '21, I actually think a lot of the Street discredited our competitors too much. You can pull this. There's fireside, not with Goldman, but some of the questions were very disparaging on them. And then about 18 months ago, that turned totally to the other end of the spectrum, and it was you're going to get crushed. The truth has always been kind of in the middle. So we have 3 bigger companies that have acquired a bunch of construction assets. There's point solutions out there, and then there's a big swath of the marketplace that's doing things on Excel. And that's the dynamic.

And I imagine a big swath of that marketplace is internationally, right? And you've installed regional, locally informed GMs to help grow Procore's presence in these markets. Like talk to us about how the dynamics may be similar or different relative to the U.S. market and kind of the long-term aspirations for the international segment?

Yes. So competitive or just in general?

Just in general.

Okay. Yes. In general, the U.S. is a general contractor-heavy market. They kind of set the pace. In some international countries, that becomes less. Some of them are more fragmented. Some of them have other stakeholders that have a much heavier voice like owners. And this is very true in the Middle East, where we always tell this analogy, you could win every contractor in the UAE and Saudi Arabia. If the owner is not on board, it doesn't matter because it's all owners mandate there. So our motion there is very tailored to owners, and it's very tailored to upmarket, which has a ton of public sector there. It's all influenced by that. And you compare that to something like the UKI, they have a more interesting mid-market general contractor motion. So that's kind of why the general managers in each region, they have to have a more of a bespoke tailored approach. My last company was horizontal software. You had geographical differences, but not really, not to this extent. Maybe Japan was the one difference for us. Australia is very different than Canada in that regard.

And how far along are we in kind of developing that infrastructure and those relationships to tip over the owners in the case of the UAE, for instance?

Yes. That one is a -- that's the long pole in the tent. The good news is you guys are interested in AI, CapEx, construction growth. You should see what's going on in the Middle East, like they are -- when they pitch us, they're small projects, it's like an $8 billion airport. And it's really, really big. But it does take a while. You don't just show up and, hey, we're Procore, you got to be there for the long term. And so we are establishing that. That's really, really compelling there. But the motion is totally different, what that GM has to deal with and what the gentleman that runs North America does. It's very different.

And then you talked about AI a bit. Like we're going through a transformational moment in technology. How is Procore positioning for this next wave? You've launched your agent products. So talk to us a little bit about what you're seeing out there in terms of customer receptivity for some of these solutions, given that this is traditionally an analog industry moving to digital, right? So adding AI on top.

Yes, it gets a little -- it's very tech forward for them. So we haven't launched in GA, but we've launched the beta. We've got a meaningful amount of big US GCs in there. Feedback has been really good. I think we've been pleasantly surprised at -- I should probably back up. We've got specific agents, and then we've got what we're calling like an agent builder effectively. It allows them to create one for their own purposes and to work on any workflows that they want. That latter offering, I was personally skeptical about how well received it would be because it does require even them to be very forward thinking on how they build it. They found it very intuitive, and they seem to be gravitating toward that quite a bit. And what's going to be interesting for us there is when this does become GA, we can start to monitor what are actually people building in the builder and do we actually want to offer something out of the box for it for themselves. So it's almost going to be kind of another R&D incubation for us to kind of keep our eye on for. So you're going to hear more about this at our user conference next month. That's when it's going to start to go from closed beta, open beta and then ultimately GA at the beginning of the year, really interesting, really exciting. We are still going to be very cautious and careful about monetization. We have been talking to people on our Board and peer companies. It doesn't really seem like anybody has figured this out quite yet. And even those that have come out of the gate with pricing and packaging, they have changed it. And I was just talking to the Figma team recently about what they're seeing. They saw some gross margin compression because of usage. And I'm trying to get a sense of where, how, why because this is tough to model in that regard. But if you think ultimately, at the end of the day, what Procore does is you go up to the job site, you open your iPad and it says, here are the materials being delivered. Here are the submittals you need to stay on top of. We would love to have an agent do that on that person's behalf, basically make their day easier so they can spend more time drinking coffee. That would be ideal.

One of the things I always think about with Procore is just that you guys sit on this massive trove of construction data. You think about names like Samsara and Autodesk, they all have that kind of advantage. So I guess there's a big debate around like the data mode and data incumbency advantage relative to AI native. So I guess like how do you think about kind of the opportunity you have with all of this really proprietary data that really can't be scraped on the web?

Right, 100%. And this is -- we have this app marketplace, right? There's like 400 or 500 companies on there. We have to handpick them. They get deep product integration for specific access. This AI thing, it could change that a little bit, right? Because it's going to force us to be very careful on who we give access to, so we don't get disrupted in that regard. I think it would be very challenging for an agent to get created. Again, Matt Martino Construction decides to have an agent replace Procore. The value you get is not just in the information in your question, but it's also all of your collaborators need access to this as well. And they're probably not going to be using this agent tool that you're making for yourself. It's different than a CRM that you might be building for your own operation. You're using something to collaborate with hundreds of other organizations to get everybody to restandardize on a new industry solution. That's tough. I mean it took us a long time. So if that's someone's goal, good luck.

Do you guys leverage existing foundation models to power some of these offerings? Or are you developing your own sort of proprietary models?

We're not developing any of our own. We're using some of the ones that you probably are thinking of right now.

Okay. And then maybe moving to some of the emerging opportunities Procore has, the fintech initiatives, right? I think we've heard a little bit less about Procore Pay in recent quarters. So what's the traction you're observing there? I know Paul is kind of running that. So maybe talk to us a little bit about that.

Yes. We moved it actually under our product org to get more synergy there. It's going well so far. So before we had Pay, we had 2 meaningful add-on products. So when you would land with project management, the graduation path would be quality and safety and project financials. Those were our next 2 highest ASPs. Now Pay is right there. We have a third, which is our reps love that, especially if you sell to North American GCs, like they were chomping at the bit for something meaningful to retire quota. We have a couple of pricing models. One is very similar to the Textura model that populized. That's extremely popular in the -- you can kind of think just in the ENR, right, like the enterprise of the enterprise, so to speak. The rest of the market clearly prefers the other pricing model, which is a simple -- just like any other product, take rate on construction volume. We have not been getting any harsh feedback that the product can't meet their needs, which is fantastic. Normally, you do get that, especially your first year or 2. So it's really just about finding when are you ready to buy financials. When you buy financials, when are you ready to graduate to then Pay, so you got that whole workflow kind of spec-ed out. It is effort for the customer. That's probably the headwind, if you will. It does require an implementation when you're moving money and it takes effort on their side. But other than that, like the product feedback is great. We're not really getting pushback on the notion, like we're very bullish about it.

What's the advantage of adopting Procore Pay? And who are you displacing out there from a -- when you go into these customers and try and pitch the solution, I mean, what are you going after?

Yes. When you're in the ENR, you will see Textura. That's usually there. You don't really see them down market. They're not a mid-market offering. When you get to the mid-market and below, then you're dealing with checks and ACH and you're dealing with Barbara and accounts payable is trying to track what's happening on the job site. She's manually tracking these compliance workflows, like the lean waiver exchange that happens in the U.S. And then when she gets the green light, she submits Pay. And we would love to just have Barbara click a button in there and have that -- do that for her effectively. That's the idea.

Got you. Maybe broadening this out a little bit. When we think about the opportunity from a wallet share capture perspective, like what do you see as the top 2 levers inside existing logos over the next 12 to 24 months? Like one thing that always stuck out to me was this $1 trillion ACV capture opportunity within your installed base. Like how does that kind of phase into the revenue and the P&L?

Yes, that's the first thing that came to mind. Product cross-sell would be the second answer to your question, but that first one is the big one. There's usually 3 reasons to say someone doesn't have all their volumes on Procore. One is time. There takes a few contract cycles to kind of graduate finish out your project portfolios and move your volumes over.

That's just by virtue of you land a customer, they're already underway with 5 projects, they roll over.

Exactly. So that time is number one. Number two, there's actually a go-to-market effort. And a lot -- this is more common in the U.S. than other countries. But in the enterprise, they will have geographical offices that are almost like business units. And I've shared the story with investors before. When Procore won Turner Construction, they started with their Southern California office, and then they won Texas and then they won the Southeast. And like you kind of go, it's all expansion, but it's really -- you're getting -- each office has their own book and their own pool of volumes within the overall Turner brand.

Is it simpler to onboard the next office...

Yes and no. It kind of depends on how they set up. Sometimes you'll have more of a centralized CIO function, and then the answer is yes. But if they are very independent, then it can be effectively like a new logo motion, even though we consider that expansion. And then the third answer is there are things in our product road map people would like to see before they move their next piece of business over. For the longest time, that was like really wide horizontal projects. Like imagine a job site, you cannot see with your eyes at the end of the job site. It spans miles or tens or hundreds of miles. You need geo tracking capabilities, and that was that company we bought about 1.5 years ago on Earth. So now you can map where is Matt on the job site, where is this trailer? Where is this piece of materials here? That was the other functionality.

And was that specifically a play into civil infrastructure?

Correct. Typically, the stereotype is civil infrastructure it can be very wide. Vertical, you have vertical needs for that, but that's maybe the industry wouldn't like this, but I think it's easier than wide.

Yes. And I think the language around sort of like the data center opportunity has been couched in some respects. But talk to us about what you're seeing from a customer behavior perspective around the data center infrastructure build-out, right? We've seen some enormous numbers as recent as last night, right?

Yes. I'm sure the rep for Oracle is calling them today, I would be -- data center construction is a phenomenal product market fit for us. I hope this trend continues. Just to be very clear, the caveat has been. And when you speak to somebody who works in construction, they are a little skeptical about how big it can become. So right now, data center construction is about 2%, moving to 3% of total U.S. construction. Put that number in context, I think multifamily is 13%, 14%, so it's a much bigger piece of the pie. But if this trend continues, I think this would be good for Procore, candidly. We've got some very large data center operators as customers. Some have come up for renewal already. Some are in the coming quarters. So we're pretty optimistic about that. But it is still a relatively smaller part of the U.S. industry today.

Got it. CEO search, this has been ongoing for a little bit. Tooey has been a driving force here. I think a lot of us are curious how that is progressing. Can you share with us where things stand today and then Tooey's involvement in that process?

Very involved. I was actually just slacking with him this morning on a couple of things related to that. I would describe the time line can be anywhere from weeks to months, not years or not even quarters necessarily. He is in advanced talks with some people. I can't quite tell exactly with who, but I have seen some of the names. They are a very impressive list. I don't know all of them very well, but the ones that even I don't know them, I know their background, I know who they are. He's indexing toward people that have been a CEO before, ideally in software, ideally known as an operator or has a reputation as that, and that's what the reference checks would validate. It's also been really interesting from my vantage point throughout the process, what data and information these candidates are requesting. Paul, our old CFO, will call me and be like, "Hey, we're talking to somebody, they really want to get deep on unit economics here and there." And so that's a good sign to me that they're asking about that and digging into that. When we announced this in March, I actually didn't want to announce it. Tooey felt very strongly. He wanted this -- he didn't like the idea of an internal versus external narrative. He wanted to have a public search, but we really didn't begin heavy search until like late spring, summer. So I know it feels like it's been forever. But in our minds, it's like -- it's really gotten rolling in the last quarter or a few months.

Great to hear. Well, we have 4 minutes left. So if there's any questions from the audience, please feel free to raise your hand. Okay. Well, I have plenty more. Procore signaled that free cash flow per share is the company's North Star. Can you just kind of give us a refresh on what inputs go into maximizing this metric over kind of the short and long term? You've got the 25% midterm free cash flow margin target out there. You think you can do 40%? Just kind of walk us through how you get there.

Yes. The single most sensitive input to the long-term improvement of that metric is growth -- top line growth. So if our base case of growth right now is that 13% to 14% I was alluding to earlier, 2/3 of our customers are billed annually upfront, which is why that's such a big tailwind to free cash flow. That's the big one on the top line. You combine that with margin expansion, a few hundred bps this year, a lot more in the next couple of years very likely until we get to some of those milestones, then you start to generate a lot of free cash flow. And then when we get to the denominator, right, like share count, we usually -- if I've been here 5 years, we usually start equity budget, equity planning at a 2% net burn rate, dilution rate. That's typically where we go. And then we have a withhold to cover program, which takes shares vest, they don't end up being released. They end up essentially coming back into treasury stock effectively. That's about a 50 to 75 bps tailwind to that. So your 2 goes down to, call it, 1, 1.5 and then any buybacks we do on top of that would actually bring that down even further. So that's kind of the algorithm, if you will. And when we model out the business, I'm always pushing my team on each one of those components. The only thing we don't really forecast internally is the rate of buybacks in the future because it is an opportunistic program. That could change in theory with the new CEO. We'll let that person determine what the capital allocation priorities are. But those builds, that's the construct of the algorithm there.

And on the topic of capital allocation, I mean, we just talked about the Unearth acquisition, but I guess what is Procore's philosophy behind the M&A? I mean are there any areas where you feel like there's product gaps today that you'd like to fill? Any appetite for strategic M&A?

Yes. Again, I'm assuming this might change with the new CEO. So this is a very like current administration answer, if you will. So if Tooey remains CEO, I would expect $50 million, $100 million max per year in tuck-ins. That probably gets you 2, 3 tuck-ins per year. Those kind of fill your product gaps. Like we wanted maps capability. It's the classic build versus buy. Do you save 2 years of your time and just scoop up an asset that's attractive. And then every 3, 4, 5 years, you might acquire something that actually has revenue, that has like go-to-market synergies perhaps. That would be kind of the current administration. The question becomes how does this change, if at all? And in my seat and Howard's seat, we're trying to keep a balance sheet to give that new person as much flexibility as possible.

Sure. All right. With a minute left, we've got groundbreak coming up in October. Are there any breadcrumbs you can share with us about what we should expect?

It's going to be a whole lot of AI.

Whole lot of AI.

A whole lot of agents. That's going to be the theme. That's the big one. There'll be some other things on the road map that the industry has been asking for, but mostly agents will be the big one.

All right. Well, excellent. That brings us to time. So thank you so much for joining us today. Yes.