Profoto Holding AB (publ) (PRFO) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Welcome to the Profoto Q4 2025 Report Presentation. [Operator Instructions] Now I will hand the conference over to CEO, Anders Hedebark; and CFO, Linus Marmstedt. Please go ahead.

Welcome, and thank you for listening in to our Q4 report for 2025. We were acting in a challenging market, still challenging market but we combine that with high own activity in sales and marketing. So I'm talking -- my name is Anders Hedebark, and with me here, I have Linus Marmstedt. So as a summary for Q4 last year, our net sales decreased 19% to SEK 163 million compared with a very strong actually quarter for 2024. Half of that decrease is based on currency effect. And even though we had a Q4, we had a recovery from a weak Q3, we still had a lot of challenges in the American market. So in the U.S., especially but in general, in North America, the market was very, very tough. Our EBIT was SEK 16 million. That is 10% EBIT margin. And -- but the result is mainly, as you understand, affected by the negative sales trend but we combine that with lowering the cost during the year. So we still managed a 10% EBIT margin -- profit margin. Also, we had a legal cost level of SEK 7 million, which was incurred Q2 to Q4 but was only invoiced in Q4. And that put pressure on especially the EBIT for the quarter. Our activities is very much high -- was very much higher than usual during the quarter. And in the end of the quarter, we started selling and invoicing our LED products. Generally, the activity in marketing and sales was very high and is continuing to be on a high level for Q1 as well. So we have, for a very long time, talked about starting to sell products to the continuous light market for video still and also for photography. So during the end of the quarter, we started to ship our L1600D, 600C and L600D. And all of those products are positioned to both cinema as well as the creator market, and I will talk more about that in a second. We see some sales impact, even though it is rather small for the quarter. Our ProPanel will start to invoice in the end of the first quarter but will have financial effects from the quarter thereafter. So we are very much looking forward to that. And with those -- with that product, we have a great product offering, even though it's not complete. And we are aiming and we are then having a premium product catalog and a premium brand for the full industry needing both flash product as well as LED product. So premium is the key factor and especially for visual content creators, we are dividing our targeting the market in 3 customer segment, important customer segment. Number one is content creators, which are buying both LED and flash, large studios, for example, e-com studios, but not only that, also brand-owned studios, also using both LED and flash as well as for the cinematic market, film production market, which is mainly but not only using LED. So first of all, visual content creators are -- is our main focus at the moment, where we are selling both for the video market and for the still market selling LED product as well as flash product, where they're shooting and doing both of those things at the same job. The main focus here is hybrid, and it is very important because that is our next step in our market. We see this market growing as well as for the whole visual content creator market. So in this market, we are partnering up with our big dealers -- and during the last quarter as well as coming into this year, we see -- we are -- we have -- even though the sales was down last quarter, we see a great -- we are optimistic about the future, even though the timing will be debatable exactly during the year when we see -- we will see a sales increase. However, we are very active in our channel as well as -- both our dealer channel as well as directly online and also physical events. So we are increasing the number of activities in the market. It is a new landscape but we are combining this with high activity. We are also seeing in the cinematic market that our offering -- our hybrid offering has high attractiveness, especially in the cinematic market. Hence, with this new landscape, we are updating our financial targets, and we will talk more about that later in the presentation. Please go ahead, Linus.

Okay. Thank you. And as Anders mentioned, during the quarter, we saw a sharp decline with 19% compared to the same quarter last year, and that's a combination of currency effects. So more -- half of the decline is related to currency effects but also that we actually saw a quite strong fourth quarter last year with several quite important product launches. So that's important to just bear in mind. And during the fourth quarter, we saw more or less the similar geographical pattern as we saw during the year with a fairly strong development or relatively strong development in Asia with China as -- I shouldn't say shining star but they're doing really good and they are performing well. And in Europe, we saw a fairly stable development. And in U.S., that was a tough year and also a tough quarter. So that's -- we didn't see a shift in the underlying market sentiment during the quarter in the U.S. So it's still a tough market. And it's also important to bear in mind that we actually saw quite strong order intake on some key products that we were not able to deliver, which we will now deliver during the fourth quarter of this year. And if we look at the full year, it's more or less the same pattern. The currency effect wasn't -- because I mean, that's something that happened throughout the year. So the currency impact is somewhat smaller for the full year as a whole. But still, it's important that we had a negative currency effect of 5% on a group level during the year. So all in all, we saw a decline with 16% for the full year 2025. If we look at the -- for a longer period, as I have said it before but this is not my favorite slide. We have 2 really tough years with a decline top line and also impact on the EBIT margin. So this is despite the fact that we actually have done numerous things on the cost side. But as you can see, the underlying EBIT margin has been on a downward slope. So now it's a new year, so let's see what it brings. If -- I think we communicated during the second quarter last year that we will do quite substantial cost savings, and this is -- and we communicated that we would see an EBIT impact of approximately SEK 30 million and more impact on the cash flow with a positive impact on the cash flow side with SEK 60 million to SEK 80 million. And if we summarize the year as a whole, we see that we have clearly achieved what we communicated. So all in all, we have reduced underlying cost base with close to 30% and the effects on EBIT and the cash flow is slightly ahead of what we said during the second quarter. And what -- on this slide, we had a legal cost during the fourth quarter, which is adjusted for on this. So this slide shows the underlying cost base. So it's spread out through the quarters because during the fourth quarter, we had a one-off cost of SEK 7.5 million with legal fees, which was actually related to the second and the third and the fourth quarter. So it should be more even out throughout the quarter. So that has been adjusted on this slide. And this is a slide that we started to show last quarter is the quite substantial impact that we have on the relationship between capitalization and depreciation. So what you see is that we have increased the depreciation with a couple of millions related to the product launches that we have done but more substantial effect on the capitalization side. And that's a combination of 2 things. One is that we have reduced the cost base and the R&D spend. So that's one effect. And the other one is actually that during the fourth quarter, the capitalization rate was actually on the low side. That has -- we had a capitalization rate of around 50%, which is below the normal trend of around 75%. So that has -- I shouldn't say, have a negative effect of SEK 5 million but that was actually the underlying effect during the quarter. And I think this is quite important to see that during the quarter, despite a sharp decline on the top line, we actually managed to deliver very strong underlying cash flow, and that's related to 2 things. One is that we have adjusted underlying cost base, which has actually a positive impact, of course, but also that we have focusing on net working capital and to really monitor and have a strict focus on all the components in the net working capital. So we saw the effects during the quarter. And that has also led to a reduction in the net debt of -- yes, close to SEK 50 million actually in reduction in the net debt. So all in all, a stable and quite strong cash flow given the circumstances.

So with the basis of what we just have discussed and the history and especially in the market conditions and that we are shifting our offering into the market as well as the market demands are shifting more towards LED, the Board of Profoto has decided to update the financial targets. And the targets will be to deliver a long-term organic growth that exceeds 5% per year. And this is driven by new technology and new customer segments. At the same time, the company shall deliver a 20% EBIT margin. Our dividend target remains the same as previously, and maybe you can talk about that.

No. I mean the dividend policy is unchanged. And in the short term, the focus in on continuous reduction actually in the net debt. So we have the full flexibility on the financial side to actually do and to keep our own destiny, so to say. So -- and I think in addition to what Anders said, I think it's important to really stress that this top line -- the new updated top line target is a combination of what we see on the underlying [indiscernible] and what we have in the product portfolio today but more important, what we actually see on the lead side and both in terms of new products and new technology thing but also on new customers. So it's very much driven on that we now have more or less a full offering to offer to the customers, both new and existing customer base.

Okay. So to summarize, yes, a tough quarter, increased competition. However, increased activity, including more LED product launches. We -- this is based and combined with lower cost level in the full company. and very strong cash conversion, and this is despite the earnings drop. So -- and as we said in the last slide, we are updating the financial targets in light of everything we do in the market as well as the changing market conditions.

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from Marcela Klang from Handelsbanken.

A couple of questions from my side. The new financial targets that you released this morning, can you give us a little bit more color on when do you expect to be able to return to profitability levels and growth levels close to these targets, which is still a significant uplift from where we are now, basically more timing effects on your launches, invoicing and sales during 2026. If you can guide us a little bit more when -- what we can expect?

So I will start out -- I will start out first of all, we feel even though the quarter and the last year was not satisfactory with the sales decline. We feel that this year, we are rather optimistic that we are going to turn this during this year. We are increasing our activities in several aspects, not only with launching the LED product, but mainly combining this with market activities in all channels for all products. So this will take some time. I don't know exactly when during this year but I see that we will have some effect of the -- and going towards those targets, new financial targets during the year. And for the full year, we will see something in this line. Maybe you want to add to this, Linus?

No. Marcela is just trying to give -- for us to give a forecast. So yes, we stick to what you said, Anders.

But Maybe a follow-up question. You mentioned the lead panel starting invoicing from late first quarter and basically seeing an effect from the second quarter. How big of a game changer is this for you? Because you have a lot of products and the lead panel, is it your best seller?

We don't know yet. And the fact is we need to take the orders. We have a lot of interest in the market in the cinematic market but it needs to happen a couple of things in order for that to materialize in firm orders. And that will -- we will -- we are working very hard. We are putting effort in marketing. We're putting effort in sales. We just opened an office at Pinewood Studios, which is the largest studios in London. We see the full market in the U.K. market is increasing. There's a lot of signs for that but a promise of an order is not an order. So we need to work hard. And let me come back to that when we actually know when we have some proof in the pudding for and proof with orders. And hopefully, we will be able to talk about this before the summer or for the Q2 report in the summer.

Sounds good. And then you mentioned in your presentation that hybrid product is the next step. Can you say a little bit more about that?

Yes. First of all, during the last years, content creator market has increased rapidly. This is based on that brand-building companies are putting extra effort to have moving images, videos in their marketing mix. So our customers that are visual content creators are creating any kinds of visual with the means that they have. And they -- at an increasingly pace, they are asked to produce -- they're assigned to produce stills and then they're asked to produce videos as well. Historically, our customers were video or still or there were other customers that were video producers. Now this is merging not only for the brand-building companies, they need both on their webs and in marketing materials but then the producers, the visual content creators, they are asked to do both. So in the content creator space, there are 3 kinds of customer segments. There are still photographers, hybrid photographers and videographers that are doing smaller production up to commercials for the brands. But nowadays, the most fast-growing part of this market is the hybrid as well as video is obviously growing also but especially the hybrid since the companies, the brands needs both video and still in their marketing mix.

And then you mentioned in the report, you have a new 3-year revolving credit facility. Is it at the same interest rate, which means can we expect same interest rate costs going forward?

Yes. So we had a new facility with Handelsbanken. So -- and all the terms are more or less unchanged. So it was really -- we had a good relationship with Handelsbanken and also a good dialogue regarding this new credit facility. So all in all, unchanged terms.

Sounds good. And then maybe a final housekeeping question. In your presentation, Slide 9, you say at current levels, we are tracking annual costs of SEK 300 million. What level SG&A or total expenses of -- or what do you mean by that?

It's personnel cost and other external costs. So it's the underlying expenses base when that's what we are referring to when we said the SEK 300 million.

And compared to the chart where the fourth quarter is SEK 75 million, does that mean an increase if we are -- sorry, yes, SEK 300 million...

I think it's -- SEK 75 million x 4, it's very close to SEK 300 million.

[Operator Instructions] There are no more questions at this time. So I hand the conference back to the speakers for any written questions and closing comments.

Okay. Very good. We have received a couple of questions by e-mail. So the first one is, what can you tell about the ongoing dispute? How significant is the technology under dispute? And I think Anders will handle that question.

We have a dispute basically -- and the cost is referring in the U.S. scene where -- so how significant is it? This is referring to our A10 technology and the patent that we are having for a circular patented magnetic fixture, so a fast -- the way that you can fast use light-shaping accessories on an camera flash. So it is very specialized but we are having a dispute with the Chinese supplier, Godox in this respect. That's basically what I could say on details on this.

Good. And the second question is on the same topic. In the report, we are saying that we expect cost to be in the range of SEK 5 million to SEK 10 million. And the question is, will these costs be recognized in 1 quarter or spread out on various quarters throughout 2026. And the answer is the latter. It will be, I shouldn't say, evenly distributed during the quarter but that's more or less what we expect. So it's not during 1 quarter. And the third question is, do you expect to get back to historical level on sales from new products?

I don't know what -- how should we interpret the new products in quotes here. No. But generally, we are we are trying to increase both sales, obviously, of new products, but also of existing products. We're working heavily in our -- how to present and how to market our product offering. And we are also looking into things like pricing and where to sell, et cetera. So we are leveling up our -- especially our cooperation with the larger dealers around the world in order to get this done.

And I think this also refers to some presentation that we did for a number of quarters where we presented the share of sales that refers to new product launches.

So I can't really answer that in detail.

No. And I also actually think that we have not a special situation but when we are now entering new markets, new customer segments and also LED technology. So of course, this will be an important step for the company. So hopefully, it will be a large part of the total sales over time. And the fourth question is, has personnel expenses reached a more sustainable level? Do you expect it to increase again in 2026? And I think this is a very good question actually because now we have done quite a lot on the cost side. But going forward, as we expect to actually see -- hopefully see some growth in the market and also for us, we will put more resources on sales and marketing if we get the right traction in the market. So it will be -- if we get the right traction, we will not hesitate to actually add resources in sales and marketing. So it might be so that we actually see a small uptick during the year but we are in full control. So if we don't get the right traction, we will not increase our cost base. And the final question, is it purely volumes that is needed to reach the financial target of 20% or can we do more on the cost side? And I think the short answer is we don't foresee any major things on the cost side. So we are very much focused on top line because, I mean, we have a good market position and now we have good products coming up. And so it's very much focused on top line to actually coming back to growth. That's all the questions we have received by e-mail. So I think with that, we can actually close this conference call. If there is anything else you would like to add, Anders?

I would like to thank everyone for listening in. Thank you very much.