Property For Industry Limited (PFI) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Today is to provide you with a more in-depth update on our sustainability performance and plans following the release of our sustainability report in February. We're conscious that this is a focus area for many of our investors and funders and stakeholders, and we want to make sure that we're engaging with you on the journey that PFI is on. This is the third year that we've been running this session. We've had pretty good feedback to date. So we're going to continue to do it. You'll be hearing from myself obviously, and also Craig Peirce, who's our Chief Finance and Operating Officer, and perhaps most importantly, Sarah Beale, who is our Head of Sustainability and Operations. And so today, we're going to start with a quick recap on our sustainability journey to date. Then we're going to spend most of the session speaking about our refreshed strategy that will take us through to 2030 and providing you with a background to how we developed it and an overview of our commitments under this new strategy. Finally, there'll be plenty of time for you to ask questions. I'm sure you're going to have some at the end as we really want to hear what's on your mind. We're going to take phone questions or if you prefer, you're able to ask a question using the ask-a-question button at the top right-hand side of your screen anytime during the presentation. We're going to get through as many of these questions as possible at the end. However, if we don't get through all of them, we'll come back to you individually at the end by e-mail. We also will release these slides at the NZX and we're going to record the session. So I'll start with a quick recap on our journey to date. So in 2019, we developed our first formal ESG framework. That year, we also measured our first carbon footprint even as a baseline understanding of our Scope 1 and Scope 2 emissions. Following the establishment of our ESG framework, we [ brought ] Sarah to lead our efforts in this area. During 2020, Sarah started to lead us through a program focusing on several ESG areas, including enhancing our health and safety systems and getting a grasp on our climate-related risks and opportunities. That enabled us to release our first TCFD report at the end of 2020, 3 years prior to this becoming a mandatory requirement. During that year, we also started to gain a better understanding of carbon emissions relating to buildings, and we decided that we also wanted to measure and disclose additional greenhouse gas emissions that relate to the development of our buildings. This naturally led us to focus on key ESG topic for PFI, the impact of the construction of new buildings. So in 2021, we start working with our key development partners on how we could manage those impacts by seeking Green Star certification for new buildings. And in 2022, we committed to a 5 Green Star target for our upcoming developments at 30 Bowden Road in Mount Wellington and 78 Springs Road, East Tamaki. Through that process, we also learned a lot about how we can lower the impacts of our refurbishments. Refurbishments aren't generally eligible for Green Star ratings, so we've built our own internal framework to help guide the team on what they can and can do to undertake refurbishments in a more sustainable way by managing waste and reusing materials. Another achievement that we're particularly proud of over the past few years is the completion of our R22 HVAC replacement program that ran from '21 to 2022, which involved us phasing out a refreshing case within our operational control that had a high climate impact and depleted the ozone layer. That project was completed late last year and has contributed to a reduction in our Scope 1 greenhouse gas emissions by 35% on our 2019 levels. Finally, we're thrilled to move into a new office late last year and a refurbished heritage building that is targeting 5 Green Star certification. As tenants of a Green Star building, we've committed to a range of environmental performance targets completing energy and water use targets. So this slide only shows a small selection of the huge amount of work that has gone on to -- in our ESG program over the last few years. For example, we've also worked on stakeholder engagement, solar feasibility analysis, seismic upgrowth across the portfolio, donations and volunteering. So you can see we've made huge strides since our initial 2019 framework was introduced. But last year, we knew it was time for a refresh to set us up for the next phase. So during the year, we consulted with a range of our stakeholders and set a new sustainability strategy through to 2030. I'll now hand you over to Sarah who's been a key person behind us to take you through the process and the thinking that led to our new strategy. Sarah, do you want to take over?

Thanks, Simon. So last year, we spent some time thinking about the future and the next phase of sustainability at PFI. And we want to see the range of views for that. So we got feedback from a selection of our funders, our business and our analysts. And we expect our team and some of our key suppliers, and we also worked with our sustainability consultants [indiscernible]. We also consider what we know is going on in the external environment, and we looked at the profile of our carbon footprint. And we considered how our sustainability efforts relate to our corporate strategy overall. So I'm going to talk you through each of these considerations in more detail over the next couple of slides. I'm going to start with what we know is going on in the external environment. Firstly, in the regulation space. As you will all know, New Zealand has committed to net 0 greenhouse gas emissions by 2050, meaning that we're going to see a lot of new regulations that require ourselves and the companies that we deal with, like customers and our suppliers to reduce emissions. The emissions reduction plan related to last year gives us an indication of what some of the regulations might look like. So we've already seen some of those changes starting to come through. A good example of the TCFD or climate-related disclosure legislation that's come into effect this year. That will require assurance like ourselves, banks and insurers to understand and disclose the risk and opportunities that we face as a result of climate change. Our view is that, that is going to be a catalyst for fundamental change in how corporate and dealers use and what will ultimately price climate risk. And in tune, even as isn't replied to report of climate-related risks and might supply companies that is required to, and it will almost personally borrow money for one that does. And so these businesses are going to face pressure from their business partners to reduce emissions. And PFI case, we're expecting that this will drive a significant change in demand from that corporate synergy with lower emission products. Additionally, we're seeing [ MB ] continue to work through the building this climate change program, which will push landlords such as ourselves to improve the operational performance of our buildings, such as how much energy and water value and to build in a more sustainable way. The emissions reduction plan released by the government last year stated that by 2030 in New Zealand's building related emissions, which covers off construction, operation, maintenance and demolition will need to be near zero. Set to really exceptional landlords and the ones that are getting prepared now like ourselves will likely experience a much lower transition that come in this decade. And we also believe that there's going to be opportunities that arise from us as private landlords made they no longer wish to deal with the complexity of owning and managing buildings that have to meet such a high standard. As sites have been changing regulations, we also know that our investors preferences are changing. As you will know, there is now far higher scrutiny of the company's ESG performance. So we need to ensure that our strategy continues to perform from an environmental, social and governance perspective. And unfortunately, we also know that specifical impact of climate change will not be able to be fully advised and we have been really excited to see this come to fruition earlier this year, in fact gateway and the other areas we are working. So PFI will need to adapt to climate changes, adapt to changing climate as well. The next thing we looked at was our corporate emissions profile. You might recall this graphic from prior years or our annual report. It shows how our corporate report in the middle of this diagram, and bear in mind 3.4% of our overall footprint. That's particularly following the 35% reduction in emissions that we achieved through our HVAC replacement program. As you can see, our most material emissions are those from our capital projects, our developments and our refurbishments, making up the vast majority of our footprint on the left-hand side of the graphics here. So as generally referred to as a body covers, which is the cabinet associated with building or development as opposed to the operations of the building. Those are Scope 3 emissions, which means that are directly within our control, we need to work with others to reduce them. It's also important to note that at present operational carbon from our buildings, such as the electricity relating to our tenant user billings is excluded from our stock front. That's because PFI is entirely removed from energy arrangements for properties at present due to the nature of industrial leases. Essentially we hand over a building to a payment and they organized and pay for power for both the operation of the building as well as their own machinery or forecasts or whatever they might need for the operation of their business. We'll come back to electricity later in the presentation. And the next and final critical piece of information would obviously have a look at our corporate strategy. As many of you on the call today will already know, we'll relook at our portfolio and split it into 4 categories of markets. As you can see, up 84% of our portfolio is made up of core generic holdings, which we want to hold on to. So 9 buildings will need to be near 0 emissions by 2050. A critical question for us was how the significant portion of our portfolio will transform in the coming years. Over the next 30 years, many of these core holdings will be refurbished and redeveloped, which gives us a big opportunity to transform them for a net 0 future. Others particularly the ones that we're just building now, or the ones that have just been built from the last 2 decades, will still be standing. So we've put a lot of pool into what the transition to net 0 for 8 versus peak and the performance part as well, and Craig will take you through that shortly. And the second largest bucket there, is an increasing area of focus for us is the brownfield opportunity bucket, which reflects the properties that we have a near-term opportunity to redevelop existing holdings. Up to 15% of our portfolio can be brownfield. So again, we're considered what that means for our sustainability strategy. Brownfield opportunity are a huge driver of value for our investors, our pillar and our people, but we know that these developments have been a carbon impact. So our first strategy need to ensure that we manage those impacts appropriately. Particularly, when we are transforming properties in our portfolio, we must make sure that they're designed in both from a low carbon future to make sure that they are relevant in the next several decades. So in summary, we had a range of stakeholders all telling us how important deal sustainability is to them. We had a rapidly changing external environment, demanding improved sustainability performance of the environment that we invest. We've got a carbon footprint that primarily made up of body carbon, and we've got a strategy to hold most of our properties long term and redevelop a few. But we're ready to put all that together into final sustainability strategy. And importantly, we wanted to make sure that the strategy not only in response to the demands we face as a business that actually creates value for PFI, to make sure that we continue to have a high-performing portfolio that attracts quality tenants and a business that continues to attract talented people. So I'm now going to hand over to Craig to talk you through where we entered.

Great. Thanks, Sarah, and good morning, everyone. Great to be speaking to you about this important topic today. But following on from what Sarah was talking about, we came out with 6 core principles for sustainability at PFI going forward. First, we want to make sure that our portfolio remains relevant as demand for sustainable spaces increases. We're a long-term investor, so the decisions we make now will stay with us for decades. So we can prepare for that by embedding sustainability and climate change and our decisions around refurbishments, developments, acquisitions and divestments right now. For example, the new Bowden and Springs Road buildings that we're about to build will still be standing in 50 years' time, and that will be a very different future. We'll have a low emissions economy by the end. But we are also likely to have more impacts from climate change and extreme weather events. By building 5 Green Star buildings, we are creating scarce lower emissions products, there's likely to be in strong demand in the future. We've also committed -- sorry, we've also completed climate risk assessments for those buildings as part of the design process. Next Core Principle highlights the opportunity to transform our portfolio through sustainable refurbishments, but we have an opportunity to continue using an existing building that perhaps needs a bit of a revamp, we can create value by transforming it into a more sustainable space, for example, by adding LED lighting or solar. Over time, we will also be exploring opportunities to achieve green certification of those buildings, noting that they are not eligible for a Green Star design and built rating. And when we do reuse a building or even parts of a building, we massively reduce waste. Next, we have a big opportunity to become a trusted partner for our tenants, as they, too, will face increasing demands to regulations will demand from their customers or their funders to reduce their greenhouse gas emissions. By putting the groundwork now and learning -- sorry, it's got a power cord issue. By putting the groundwork now and learning more about how we can support them, we can position ourselves to take advantage of tenant demand for sustainable space as it increases. We also want to work with our suppliers to reduce waste, use more sustainable materials and make sure that the people that they deal with are looked after. And finally, we want to make sure that PFI continues to be a great employer, takes health and safety seriously, and continues to perform from a financial and governance perspective for our investors. So on Slide 13, the strategy seems focused on 5 key focus areas for PFI. We completed a refresh of our material topics. We completed a refresh of our material topics in 2022 with support from Proxima, which identified the 5 areas shown on this slide is PFI's biggest impacts. We set aspirations for each of these focus areas. For greenhouse gas emissions, we want to reduce our material emission impacts, those relating to developments and refurbishments, known as embodied carbon. We're therefore committed to building and refurbishing in a way that reduces both from putting an operational greenhouse gas emissions and measuring and over time improving the operational performance of those buildings. These are both challenging commitments. In the case of embodied carbon, proportion of those emissions are driven by the use of concrete and steel as construction materials. Those are considered to be hard-to-abate emissions, there's no widely available low machine alternatives. There's some exciting technology development going on in that space, and we're working with suppliers to do what we can with what is currently available. In the case of operational carbon, at the moment, PFI is entirely removed from this aspect of our buildings. So we have a lot of work to do partnering with our tenants if we want to make meaningful progress in the space. We also need to measure those operational emissions so that we have a baseline understanding of where we're starting from. For resources and waste, we'll be aiming to minimize the waste that we produce and impacts from materials that we use during developments and refurbishment. Green Star is the great tool that helps us do these new developments. And as Simon mentioned earlier, PFI has developed an internal sustainable refurbishment framework that uses some of the Green Star principles for refurbishments that are not eligible for Green Star certification. Next, unfortunately, like all businesses, disasters, including climate disasters, are an inevitable feature of our future, which means that we need to make sure that we are well placed to respond from an operational and balance sheet perspective that our buildings are resilient. Those of you who have been following our sustainability journey for a while will know that we put a lot of effort in to seismically strengthening our buildings and understanding our climate risks over the past few years. That work will continue in the years to come. We also want to ensure that we can peacefully look after the people that we directly and indirectly work with. And finally, we know that executing on the sustainability strategy, along with all of the other great things that we do here at PFI will continue to create economic value for our investors, tenants, people and others we work with. So looking now at Slide 14. Our overarching strategy is written to take us through to 2030, but our implementation will need to be dynamic. As we discussed earlier, the external environment is constantly changing around us. So we will constantly review and adapt. To kick us off, we set some near-term projects and targets through to 2025. This includes the immediate target set out on this slide. First, we're committing to Green Star certification for significant new buildings, which will help us address the embodied carbon impact of those new buildings and ensure that there is no way that will minimize operational emissions. Green Star also helps to future-proof our portfolio by creating a scarce and desirable assets. We're seeing promising signs that in the short term, a green premium rental rate will emerge to billings that are built to the standard, which is why we're putting in the groundwork now to take advantage of the demand, which we believe will see for these buildings in the future. Second, we set a target to implement power metering across 50% of our portfolio, which will enable us to understand the energy use of our buildings. This is an ambitious target and will be challenging for a few reasons. First, whilst we're now starting to implement lease clauses that require tenants to share data with us, in most cases, existing leases do not have these clauses and some tenants may not be willing to share data. Second, in many buildings, it's going to be difficult to split out the power loads for tenant operations versus building operations, but we're working with an energy partner to find ways to do this. We also know that having this information is incredibly important. It will enable us to identify opportunities to improve the efficiency of our lower-performing buildings, and this should reduce the operating cost by tenant ensuring that our buildings retain value in the long term. In addition, the power use of our buildings forms part of our tenants carbon footprint, so we're in a position to help them with their own emission reduction plans, giving us competitive advantages of landlords. And finally, we can see in the future that there are going to be advantages to being able to certify the performance of our existing buildings. Well, our industrial property rating systems are in the infancy in New Zealand, it's clear that the key to getting a certification will be having a reliable certifiable data on the energy performance of a building. So this is the first step in a longer-term journey. We're also targeting to solar of 5 of our buildings to provide renewable power for our tenants in the next 3 years. New Zealand has a high supply of renewable energy in most other countries. However, electrification of activities that New Zealand currently relies on fossil fuels for, like driving is key would be carbonizing many aspects of our economy, meaning that there will be higher demand for electricity in the future. Installing solar in our properties make renewable energy available to tenants for use, reducing their energy demands on New Zealand's grid. Tenants may also be able to feed any energy they don't use from solar back into the national grid, increasing the supply of renewable energy for others to use. Finally, we'll continue to minimize and offset our Scope 1 and 2 emissions. While these emissions are small in comparison to those from our buildings, particularly following our HVAC replacement project, we acknowledge that we need to continue to be mindful of our direct footprint. We do have a wider sustainability work program, but the targets shown here are the most transformational and critical for the first phase delivery of our strategy. Before we open for questions, I'd like to hand back to Sarah, who has also touched on a critical piece of work that unlocked our ability to deliver on a lot of what we've talked about today. Sarah?

Thanks, Craig. So we currently is an outsourced provider for facilities management for our buildings. And while that model worked well for many years, we can see that bringing that in-house as pivotal been able to deliver on our sustainability and business objectives. Bringing facilities management in-house is critical to be able to start collecting data on operational efficiency. As Craig mentioned before, we believe having this stat will unlock a lot of opportunities for PFI like getting latency for our existing buildings, not just the new ones, and also providing superior service to the tenants who wants our support and reduce in emissions. Having that data also means that we can start to work on improvement initiatives. For example, we might [indiscernible] replace underperforming equipment, and we will be better placed to be able to support tenants that want solar installed on their buildings. Our in-house facilities managers will also ensure that once our Green Star buildings are build, they continue to be operated in accordance with best-in-class sustainable practices. That will also be able to help us to identify areas where we can make further reductions in our Scope 1 and 2 emissions, which is largely made up of gases and electricity spaces. And finally, bringing facilities management in-house will [indiscernible] number of initiatives, including building up maintenance, plans to make us more resilient to climate disasters, continuing expectations for sustainable practices with our contractors. And over to Simon.

Thanks, Sarah, and Craig for that. I guess as you can see, there's a lot going on at the moment here at PFI. I'm sure you'll have some questions. So why don't we open it up to -- I think there's some coming in online, but open it up for questions. We'll take phone questions. Or if you want, you can ask questions as I said earlier by hitting the ask-a-question button at the top right-hand side of your screen.

[Operator Instructions] We do have a question on the phone line from Helen Skinner with ANZ.

I'm just wondering, you talked a little bit about sustainability, broader program and projects. Would you be developing set targets and set climate transition strategy? And are you looking at base target initiatives and that sort of thing as well?

Sarah, did you want to answer that or...

Yes, I can take that one. Sorry, I missed the first part of your question, Helen, but I heard the bit about science-based targets. So I don't know...

Are you looking to implement or as part of your broader strategy, are you looking to have a segmented climate transition strategy, maybe 2050, 2030 target? And now you're looking...

Yes. The short answer is, yes, on the transition strategy. So as part of the strategy work that we did last year, we did actually think right out to 2050, and then kind of work backwards and set our strategy that we're sharing with you today for the first 7 years of that. But I think for new strategies, you really do have to think up to 2050 when you've got such long-term assets like we did. So that was something that we did and we've sort of started making out what that might look over -- looks like over the longer term for us. I guess the challenge is, obviously, we don't have the crystal ball. So we've had to make a lot of assumptions and things, but the strategy that we're presenting today sort of predict our best guess of what we think the key steps that we need to be taking now are to make sure that we're on the road to net 0 by 2050. And then in terms of the second part of your question around target. That was definitely something that we spent a lot of time considering when we did the refresh. There are a few reasons why we've decided not to go ahead with that at this point. One of them being the profile of our emissions at the moment. So now that we've done that HVAC replacement project, we've made a significant reduction in our Scope 1 emissions and a lot of what's left HVAC systems that aren't at end of life. So that piece of the puzzle is a little bit tricky to deal with at the moment. Then we've just got small amount of electricity in Scope 2, and then we've got a very, very significant Scope 3. So what we have decided that we want to do is understand the power use of our buildings better and continue to minimize the Scope 1 and 2 where we can, noting that we probably done a big chunk of what we can with the current technology constraints that we've got. But it's certainly not something that we're completely rolling out in the future. It's just something that at this point we don't feel is the right thing for us will be doing.

Would it be fair to say, Sarah, as well that in terms of like trying to tackle those Scope 3 things that -- one of the issues you face, maybe concrete and steel and there's not a lot of clarity around how concrete and steel gets to lower or 0 emissions or their alternatives?

Yes, that's another really good point. So at the moment, the bulk of that Scope 3 emissions is the construction of new buildings and most industrial buildings are primarily made up of concrete and steel. So we're doing, again, what we can under Green Star. We basically, for our new buildings now commissioner report on the embodied carbon that's associated with the development of that building. So it looks at all of the materials that have gone in and then we sit down with the design team and look at how we can reduce that. So are there different ways that we can actually design a building to reduce embodied carbon associated with that. But the challenge is that with the current availability of construction materials, there are some lower carbon concrete options out there, but they're not significantly lower carbon. And low carbon steel, unfortunately, hasn't reached New Zealand [indiscernible] that all the work going on over in Europe and United States to try and create steel using different energy pulses, but nothing onshore here at the moment yet. So technology constraints are a mix of challenge for us.

Yes. And so we've got a question online here from Vanessa Stephens that sort of talks about the specific initiatives and do bridge embodied emissions through steel and concrete, which I think, hopefully, Vanessa, what Sarah talked about there, covers off that question for you. But obviously, if you do engage further on that off-line, if you want to talk more about concrete and steel, I know we here at PFI love concrete and steel, although we don't lowered emissions. Vanessa was also asking how are you staying on top of nature related disclosures that are currently being worked on internationally you take into consideration biodiversity changes with your buildings. So I know we've got a bit of a response to that. Again, you want to talk about that? Or do you want me to take that one?

No, I'm happy to talk to that one. So yes, I mean, the sustainability is always something new to be looking at. So on the biodiversity front, while it is important, as probably is not one of our material topics, which is why it's not a massive part of our sustainability strategy that we've presented today. But in saying that it is something that is somewhat covered under label as a waste and again under Green Star. So when we do a Green Star development, there are specific credits and requirements around biodiversity. So it's something that we look at as a process of project. But it's not probably as critical for us and some of the challenges that we're going to face with regards to those building materials and operational efficiency like those are really critical for us because it's just strong material, share price of what we do.

We've had another question that came in around the cost of building Green Star. And so Simon, I wondered if you wanted to just make some comments on that.

Yes. It's a question we get asked quite a bit now that we're moving into these Green Star developments as to what is the additional cost of delivering a Green Star-rated building over and above your standard building? And I guess, is that reflected in the rents. We're obviously feeling our way into this. We're thinking that sort of 1.5% to 2.5% additional costs from a construction point of view. A lot of what goes into a Green Star certified building is what we would consider to development anyway and you get credits for that. So it's not a massive cost to go green. It is something you have to commit to upfront though, you need to get all your consultants, your construction company on board right at the beginning, you can't come in halfway through and decide to do it. So you do have to make a call right at the start of a project. As far as we are aware, there's only sort of 2 or 3 other industrial developers that have made that call and are pushing into it. So we're quite proud to be 1 of those people at the forefront of it. In terms of premiums, if you had asked us 3 years ago, we would have said there's no real premium for a Green Star rated building, but we are now starting to see an increase in the rents that you can charge for Green Star-rated buildings. And as with anything we do in the long term, we're expecting to reap the benefits of it in 10 years' time when these new buildings are up for renewals or tenants move on, I think you need to have that Green Star rating there to really attract either top tenants, but also the premium rents. So we are making an investment at this point in time, but we expect to see benefits from it down the track as well. Does that answer the question, Craig?

Not sure if we've got any more coming from a phone, but 1 more we had was around Green Finance. And do we have any plans to pursue green finance? So yes, I guess, following that strategy refresh and our commitment to [Technical Difficulty] significant projects, we are actively discussing Green Finance with our banking syndicate. So just watch this space on that aspect of things. Vanessa has another question here. She says are your tenants forthcoming and sharing their electricity data with you, recognizing that there will be cost saving benefits for them and what proportion have agreed this year. Sarah, do you want to pick up on that one?

Yes, I'm happy to talk about that one. It's quite an interesting question. We did actually reach out to a number of tenants a while back to ask if they were proactively share their data with us. And there were some that were reluctant to the rest -- some that we're happy to do it, but we particularly came on the administration side of it and some that were quite willing to share some initial data with us. And I think that the key learning for us from that is that we needed to find a way to make it easy for us. So we have been working with a partner who will basically collect the data automatically for us, which will make life a lot easier to tenant. Quite often the person working in the business that you need to collect this data isn't necessarily the one that sees the benefit of -- potential power site and whatever it might be. So yes, it's definitely a challenge, and it's one of the reasons why we see this as a very staged process, where we need to start trying to aim to get them successfully into our building, start collecting some data, has some information available that we can guide a key decision makers at some of our more difficult [indiscernible] and try and show them the value of doing it. So it's definitely challenging. We have some people that are really on board 18, but there will be tenants where this is cultures in -- yes, we've got a long-term plan to get together over time.

[Operator Instructions]

You've got another web question here, Craig.

Got a question from Tapio Johansen, who visited us recently, I believe at a sustainability event in the office. Can you talk a little bit about ways you've managed to reduce construction waste? In particular, as many subcontractor practices involve large amounts of excess materials waste going to general waste rather than sorted, et cetera, good question. And you probably won't be surprised when I hand it over to Sarah to answer that.

Thanks, Craig. Construction waste is a really big challenge. So I guess, starting with the Green Star development, both of our Green Star developments that we've committed to at Bowden Road and Springs Road, have recycling or reuse or waste average target in place. So we're targeting 70% of the waste from those projects either being recycled [indiscernible] from landfill, which is really exciting. And then similarly for a couple of our refurbishments now, we've started reaching with our contractors there to implement targets. It's definitely something that I think as landlords and people that are fairly removed from the day-to-day side of the project, the best thing we can do is give a high-level target and then have the head contractor for the project drives that on-site because we're not necessarily there every day overseeing. And we're also not experts. So we're not best placed by saying, you should be cutting off slightly for that particular material or whatever. So best thing we can -- here's our expectation for the project and leave it to the contractors on site to work for the next target. But the other thing that we'll be doing is getting some reporting back at the end of these projects on how they went and then that will give us a bit of a platform where we can look at helping waste, could we increase some of the thresholds that we've put in place, are there learnings that we can apply across other projects.

I think the other thing to say, Sarah is, an early experience with Bowden Road is that, some of the waste coming out of the site being recyclable has had a financial benefit to us as well in terms of some of the steel coming out of that site as well. So it's not just driving costs into these projects like there was a pretty decent financial win in that regard through some recycling there. Cool. Well, we might get it like 30 seconds more or so for the questions. And then we'll close it up. And obviously, if people can come through direct, the team here, if I've got further stuff there, maybe time for 1 more. Someone wants to go there to go.

It looks like they're all holding back, Craig, they come to us individually. So, hey, thanks, everyone, for joining us today. We're always very happy to share what we're doing in this space. So just feel free to pick up the phone or drop an e-mail through. Probably, Sarah is the best person as a first sort of place to start. She's driven a lot of this stuff and really led it for PFI over the last couple of years, and we're really lucky to have you. So we intend on keeping all stakeholders updated. This is something we've done in the last couple of years, and we intend on doing it regularly. So yes, really glad that we had you on the line today. This will be on the NZX. You have to listen to a record and I'll pass it on people who couldn't make it. But yes, like I said, any questions just come through to us. So thanks very much for your time today.

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.