Prosegur Cash, S.A. (CASH) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Prosegur Cash Full Year 2024 Results Presentation. [Operator Instructions] Please be advised today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your first speaker today, Miguel Bandrés, Head of IR. Please go ahead.

Good morning to everyone, and thank you for joining today's call. I'd like to welcome you to our 2024 Q4 and hence full-year results presentation that will be led by our CEO, José Antonio Lasanta; our CFO, Javier Hergueta, and myself. The presentation will take around 30 minutes in which we'll share the main events that have taken place in the period regarding our business and how they've influenced our performance. We'll comment on our key financials, our geographical behavior and our transformation effort as well as our ESG initiatives. And finally, we'll share some key conclusions. After, we'll open a Q&A session. Should we not get to respond to everything today, we'll get back on any open topics on an individual basis. I want to again thank you all for your attendance and remind you that this presentation has been prerecorded and is available via webcast on our corporate web page that you can find at www.prosegurcash.com. Now before passing on to José Antonio, I'd like to share some news regarding cash that has lately appeared in the media. They cover interesting topics such as the use of Cash in the United Kingdom, the acceptance of cash as a principal payment method in the euro area, the key attributes of cash that make it a preferred payment option for many Spaniards, or the reasons why Sweden is protecting cash. There are examples of how cash is very relevant in different countries for various reasons, being its resiliency, secureness or inclusiveness as a payment method to enable commerce. In the first piece of news, we can read from the British Retail Consortium that for the second straight year, cash usage has increased in the U.K. In the U.K., a mature market in terms of payment methods, it's a particular relevance to learn that cash is gaining back to rein, thanks to some unique attributes such as its ability to allow people to value themselves or its wide acceptance in stores across the country. This is a trend that we'll most likely see in other similar mature markets. And going now to the second news coming from the European Central Bank according to its latest study, cash has been the most used payment method in the entire euro area in 2024. This reflects consumers' preference for cash payments in the world's second-biggest economy and its relevance for secure commerce. This is the case because consumers seeing Cash characteristics that are positive for them and fundamentally cannot be easily replicable. Next, in a piece of news by Agency Europa press, we learned that according to a study carried out by neobank Nickel, 75% of Spaniards declared to choose cash on a weekly basis for the payments because of its unique attributes of privacy, protection against failures of electronic payment systems and security against cyberattacks. It is of relevance to note that this study has been conducted by a digital bank and that it alludes to the safety of cash payments when compared to digital ones that continue to suffer frequent and severe security leaks and frauds. Many of them often silenced but that amounts to multiple fronts in terms of occurrence and in massive quantities of money being lost. Lastly, we can read from Expansión that the Swedish government, a country that for many years has had an active anti-cash policy continues to seek measures that warranty the use of cash payments for acquiring essential products. The 2 main reasons behind these protective measures are to avoid the exclusion of around 10% of its population and very importantly, as cited in the prior years to prevent the Swedish economy from falling down in the event of successful cyberattacks on its payment systems. These news are only a sample of how relevant Cash is for a healthy society and how strong is the preference of consumers to continue to use it. It is our responsibility to assure that the cash cycle is efficient and that it's available to society. After this news update, I'll share today's agenda. Firstly, José Antonio will start reviewing the previous highlights. Second, Javier will share with us the key financials for the quarter, after which José Antonio will reflect on our transformation initiatives. Then I'll share key developments by region. And finally, José Antonio will update us on the latest ESG developments before sharing his conclusions and open the Q&A session. This being said, José Antonio, the floor is yours.

Thank you very much, Miguel, for the intro, and good morning to everyone listening to us today. And as well, thank you for attending. 2024 has definitely been a very important year for us that if I had to summarize, I would stress, we have achieved a new milestone in sales well north of EUR 2 billion, realigning the 5% growth path of the last 6 years. We attained an impressive well above 40% growth in our earnings per share, bringing it to EUR 0.06 per share, and we have again delivered a very strong on cash flow in the region of EUR 150 million that shows in our leverage ratio. If we look at sales, our top line has reached EUR 2,090 million, which implies a 12.3% increase over last year. It is particularly important to note that we have delivered double-digit growth in euro terms, both in the fourth quarter stand-alone and in the full year. These figures reflect the trust our customers have in our services and how healthy our industry is, both of which make me very proud of what has been achieved and very positive as we look into the future. As well noteworthy is the much lesser of a currency impact we have had when compared to previous years. When we look at our profitability margin, we observed that our EBITA has reached 12% of sales, which implies a 20 basis points improvement over 2023 in relative terms. If we look at our EBITA in absolute figures, it has reached EUR 251 million, which is a 13.9% increase over the prior year. I'd like to highlight that despite the investment in new ForEx openings, the Australian restructuring we experienced at the beginning of the year, and the strike we suffered in the last quarter in Germany, we've been able to improve our profitability by all measures, demonstrating the resilience of our business model. Important to underline that Asia Pacific has been profitable on a full-year level for the entire 2024 as the starting of a new phase. And last but not least, I want to remind the improvement above mentioned of our earnings per share by well above 40% year-on-year. When you look at transformation, as you know, a key pillar of our strategy, we have reached 32.2% of total sales, close to the 1/3 level. Transformation products have grown by close to 19% and the share of total sales has improved by 180 basis points. Again, this only underlines how important our transformation strategy is and how a reality has become for today's performance and most importantly, a solid basis for the future. Moving into free cash flow. I am very glad to share that we have generated EUR 148 million in the year with a particularly strong fourth quarter when we reached EUR 57 million. On a full-year basis, this implies an improvement of 24% versus 2023, and it has enabled us to reduce our net debt by EUR 12 million quarter-on-quarter, considering that in this last quarter, we have distributed EUR 30 million in dividends. With this all, we are happy to share that our total net debt-to-EBITDA ratio has gone down to 2.3x, well within our comfort levels, although our firm commitment is to keep lowering it down. As well, I'd like to share that our commitment to shareholder remuneration is total as the approval of a new share buyback plan of EUR 8 million for this coming year signals. To this, we should add the proposal to increase our regular dividend to EUR 63 million. If we consider both the share buyback and the increased dividend, total shareholder compensation will increase in 2025 by over 18% versus the prior year. Another important element to share is that we have extended the backup EUR 300 million revolving credit facility, which is unused and enables us to have a long-term safe position on our debt structure. And lastly, we are proud to share that our ESG ratings have improved in the year, showing that our commitment to be a more sustainable and responsible company as recognized by independent third parties, for which we will later provide further detail. With this, I would like to turn over to Javier, so he can share with us our key financials.

Thank you, José Antonio. Turning to our profit and loss account. Our sales have reached EUR 2,090 million, which, as said, is an all-time high. If we look at how that growth has taken place, overall improvement in euro terms has been of 12.3%, of which organic growth shows a very healthy raise by 18%. Inorganic growth accounts for 0.5% of total sales, and we have a negative foreign exchange impact of 6.2%, this being much milder impact than in previous years. Our EBITDA totals EUR 383 million, an improvement of 17.5% over the one we achieved in 2023, and in terms of sales implies an 18.3%, 80 basis points better than last year. This takes us to an EBITA figure of EUR 251 million, which is a 13.9% improvement over last year or EUR 31 additional million. We have as well improved relative performance by 20 basis points in the year. This is all taking into account the hit we've taken on the Australian restructuring, the investment in growing the ForEx business, or the German strike suffered late in the year. We will see as we go down the P&L that the relative performance in each line has been improving as a result of both efficiency and other management initiatives. Our EBIT margin reached EUR 226 million, a 16.4% improvement over last year, and represents now 10.8% of sales. With this, we reached an earnings before taxes of EUR 166 million in 2024, which implies a very substantial improvement of 40.7% or a EUR 48 million increase. In relative terms, our earnings before taxes over sales reached 7.9%, 160 basis points better than last year. Our tax rate in percentual terms has decreased to 45% from last year, resulting in a tax cost of EUR 75 million. With that, our net profit reaches EUR 91 million, that is a 44.9% increase on 2023. With the above financials, our earnings per share reached EUR 0.06, which is a 45.1% increase versus the EUR 0.0413 we achieved in 2023. This figure clearly shows how the result of our management positively impacts the value generated for our shareholders. Turning now to the next page, we can review our cash flow and net debt position. Regarding cash flow, we start with an EBITDA of EUR 383 million from which we deduct EUR 35 million in provisions and others. Income tax cash outflow adds to EUR 64 million, while investment in fixed assets totals a cash outflow of EUR 101 million, showing a total commitment to CapEx expenditure discipline. The investment in working capital represents EUR 35 million, which shows the very strong management focus on controlling our receivables and payables despite having to finance the mentioned 18% organic growth. With this, our free cash flow for the year totals EUR 148 million, a EUR 28 million improvement versus 2023, and our conversion rate measured as EBITDA minus CapEx over EBITDA reaches 74%, which is 600 basis points better than the one obtained just a year ago. Interest payments totaled EUR 18 million and M&A outflows related to past year's acquisitions, EUR 36 million. Dividend and treasury stock account to EUR 59 million, a 20% increase over 2023, and the others line accounts for a EUR 35 million outflow. This all results in a total free cash flow of EUR 1 million positive versus last year's negative EUR 30 million. Our net financial position at the beginning of the period started at EUR 624 million and has had a positive EUR 1 million impact on total free cash flow plus a negative foreign exchange rate effect of EUR 20 million, which implies a EUR 64 million improvement in that line versus 2023. This all results in a net financial position for the end of period of EUR 643 million, to which we add EUR 124 million of IFRS 16 debt, EUR 125 million in deferred payments, and EUR 6 million positive of treasury stock, achieving a total net debt of EUR 886 million, which is an improvement of EUR 12 million versus where we closed only 1 quarter ago. This is of a special relevance if we take into account in the fourth quarter, we've paid EUR 30 million in dividends. The resulting leverage ratio of 2.3x, as we have said before, is well within our comfort levels and implies a significant improvement of 0.3x versus the ratio we achieved in December 2023. This page shows clearly our ability to generate a sustainable cash flow and a subsequent commitment to disciplined debt management, which will continue into the future. With this, I would like to hand over to José Antonio, so he can share with us on the transformation of our company.

Thank you, Javier. Regarding transformation, I am proud to share that our transformation products account for almost 1/3 of total sales. In 2024, we sold EUR 673 million of transformation products, a 19% increase over 2023 or EUR 107 million additional sales in absolute terms. They now account to over 32% of total sales, increasing their penetration by 180 basis points in only 1 year and despite the fact that our core business has performed strongly. Transformation products, both in LatAm and Europe account for almost 1/3 of total sales, and growth on a like-for-like basis is very strong in Asia Pacific. These figures once again demonstrate that our customers rely strongly on our transformation solutions and is the best indicator that our company is very well positioned today and better into the future. All our solutions have performed well in 2024, especially both Cash Today and ForEx. I want to as well underline the performance of CORBAN that has set the basis for what we are sure will be a very promising 2025 and years to come. With this, I would like to hand over to Miguel, so he can explain us the key highlights of our performance by region.

Thank you, José Antonio. I'll start by sharing the figures for our main region, Latin America that accounts for 62% of total revenue. In 2024, our total sales in the region added to EUR 1,294 million, which is a 15% increase over 2023. This has been propelled by a very strong 25.3% organic growth signaling the strength of our business here and has netted off a negative impact of 10.3% due to foreign exchange. We should observe that the foreign exchange effect has been reducing as we have advanced in the year. In terms of transformation, I'm proud to share that sales coming from these products have climbed by 21% to EUR 428 million in the year and now make up to 33.1% of total sales. The main drivers behind this behavior have again been Cash Today and CORBAN, both showing that they have all support from our customers while they continue to help their growth. When we look at profitability, pro forma EBITA has increased by 16% to EUR 218 million. This implies an absolute growth of EUR 31 million versus the one reported 1 year ago and a relative margin of 16.9% of sales, which is a 30 basis point improvement versus 2023. If we now look at Europe, our second largest region with sales accounting for 31% of the company, our revenue in the region has reached EUR 653 million, a 7% increase over 2023. This has been backed on an organic growth of 4.7% and inorganic has helped with an additional 1.5% growth. Comparing this growth to the region's GDP improvement in 2024 that ranges from a 0.2% decline in Germany to plus 3.2% in Spain, we've been able to outperform the economies we conduct business in, reflecting the robustness of our model even in a challenging environment. Looking at transformation, we've experienced a very relevant increase of 16% with sales totaling EUR 215 million, 16% more than a year ago. Our transformation sales now account for 32.9% of total sales, implying an improvement of 270 basis points in the year. Turning to EBITA. This has reached EUR 31 million, which is EUR 2 million less than a year ago. The 2 main effects on this reduction being the investment in ForEx openings we've done throughout the year as well as a strike in Germany that hit us in the last quarter under which an agreement was reached. And now we turn to Asia Pacific that represents 7% of total sales. This region sales have climbed to EUR 143 million, which is a 15% improvement over 2023 on the back of a very strong 16.3% organic growth and with a negative currency impact of 1.7%, whilst inorganic has contributed positively by 0.8%. This growth again well outperforms the average GDP growth in the region of circa 5.5%. Transformation in the region continues to build strongly, reaching EUR 30 million in 2024, which is a 6% increase over that one achieved a year ago. We now total 21.2% of total sales in the region under this category. However, when we look at this growth on a like-for-like basis, we can observe it has achieved an astounding plus 72.7%, beating even the figure we had in September year-to-date of 50.7%. It is as well very important when we look at the pro forma EBITA margin for the region to note that it has reached EUR 3 million. That's 2.1% of sales, underscoring that now all countries in Asia Pacific are contributing positively to profitability. This being a milestone we expect to significantly improve in the near future. Thank you all. And now I'll ask José Antonio to please share on our ESG initiatives.

Thank you, Miguel. I would like to now share with you our key events on the ESG front. Firstly, we have approved a new sustainability master plan for the coming years that will provide us with a thorough frame in which to conduct our activity in a responsible manner, having a positive impact in our society and always bearing in mind the cost-benefit trade-off. Along those sides, I'd like to share some key achievements in 2024. Regarding our environment, we've been able to reduce our overall CO2 emissions by 5.5% year-on-year due to several efforts such as diesel consumption savings or increasing the use of bio-friendly fuels showing that we can solidly contribute to our sustainable footprint. Along those same lines, we have been able to increase the amount of recycled materials from 17.2% to 33.7% in the case of plastics. These are very important steps and show how committed we are to ensuring that our recycling policies are strictly adhered to. Turning now to our employees. I'd like to highlight that in 2024, our incidence rate has decreased 6.9% to 26.2%. As well, we have worked on improving the satisfaction of our workforce and as shown by our eNPS in which we reached an excellent score of 41.5, increasing 7 points. And regarding governance, we have approved 2 important policies, one being the environmental one to keep lowering our emissions policies and the other being the industrial relation and sourcing policy that will be our guiding principle in such relevant areas for our business. I'm very happy to share as well that 5 main agencies have improved our rating during the last 12 months, proving that all our efforts are recognized by independent actors such as Sustainalytics, FTSE4Good, MSCI, Standard & Poor's, and EthiFinance. Finally, I would like to conclude recapping our main achievements for the year, we have clearly passed the EUR 2 billion sales mark backed by a solid organic growth and showing a double-digit improvement of 12.3% in euro terms. Our EBITA profitability continues to improve, having climbed by 13.9% over 2023, and sits at 12% on total sales despite continuing to invest in growing our Forex business that requires some time to mature into profitability or having continued to restructure Australia and suffer the mentioned strike in Germany. As we go down our profit and loss, we see that our earnings per share ratio has, however, passed EUR 0.06, which is well above 40% improvement over that achieved 1 year ago. I think this clearly shows the focus on managing the company from growth to the very bottom line. In terms of transformation, we continue to push our solutions that are being very well accepted by the market. They now account for 32.2% of total sales, having grown by 18.8% to EUR 673 million. We are confident that our portfolio of transformation solutions is the best base from which to continue growing into coming years. Regarding free cash flow that you know is an absolute priority for us, we have reached EUR 148 million in the year, a 24% improvement over 2023 that has enabled us to reduce our net debt in the last quarter, permitting us to have a leverage ratio of 2.3x, a significant drop versus the one we had a year or only 3 months ago. We are sure this is the way to go, and we'll continue to very diligently manage cash flow and control our debt levels. Lastly, our commitment to shareholder compensation continues strong as the EUR 8 million share buyback program approved that adds to the EUR 3 million increase in the proposed dividend. With this all, total shareholder compensation will improve by over 18% in the year. Regarding ESG, we are showing important progress in the different fronts I've shared earlier, or ratified by the corresponding independent agencies. So as you can see, 2024 has been a very good year, but was most importantly, I'm sure that we have the basis for an even better 2025 and years to come. Thank you very much for your attention. And now I'd like to open the floor to any questions you might have.

[Operator Instructions]. We will now start with our first question, which is from Manuel Lorente Ortega from Santander.

2024 has been a year complicated in order to address meaningful trends regarding the base effects from Argentina hyperinflation on December last year. So I would really appreciate whether you can give us some indication of the 18% of organic growth that you delivered this year, which one is coming from pricing, volumes and some indication regarding regions will be also great.

I think 2024 has been a good year, as you were saying. The growth has come, as you said, 18% and the growth has come mainly from 2/3 -- 1/3 we could say, of volume and price. So I think we are going to deliver in 2025. I think we have a good outlook also for growth. I think we are going to keep delivering important growth in the next year, I think it's going to be very much driven by a strong core, which is going to be very close to GDP growth and a very high teens growth on the new products. So I think we are on the right trend to keep delivering growth. So I think the overall growth is going to be mid-single digits and [ EBITA ] above that.

But before moving to 2025, I have also one question on margins in Latin America. Margins in Latin America were 17% which implies an average of 18% on the second half of the year, which is great, but still far away from the 20%, 21% you delivered not so far ago. So how do you see evolving these margins through time? This 20%, 21% that we saw 2, 3 years ago are still a valid reference or it has changed something at this time in terms of, I don't know, volumes, competitive pressures, FX dynamics, whatever?

I think the right question -- I think the right answer would be they are going to keep improving in the coming years, and we will reach 31%. I think it's very challenging because of the change of mix in countries. I don't think there is a big difference in competitive environment in the countries. I think it's pretty similar, although the different mix of the weight of the countries has changed a little bit. But we are going to improve margins in most markets. We are going to see an important improvement next year.

Okay. And then my final question on Asia Pacific. Again, things are evolving on the positive direction. Margins has delivered close to 2% on a yearly basis. What is your long-term expectations from this business? This is something similar to Europe margins to LatAm margins, somewhere midway?

I think on that one, I think this year has been a milestone because this is the first year we've been positive. I think this is something that is going to stay. I think in the very short term, they are going to come to midway, as you were saying, not above in Europe and below Latin America. Hopefully, in the midterm, we are able to improve that. But I think in the very short term, we are going to see a very strong performance on Asia. I think sales are strong and [ EBITA ] margin we are going to see a very steep improvement in the short term.

We'll now take our next question. The next question is from Francisco Ruiz from BNP Paribas Exane.

I have 3 questions. The first one is on the use of cash. You have had a very good development on the free cash flow and debt in the last quarter but for the whole year as well. You have slightly increased your dividend. But I mean if the cash flow generation continues in 2025, what theoretically would be a more normalized year where you could deliver better growth, you are going to get below the 2x EBITDA more or less. So what is the policy in terms of use of cash? Can we see that the company will return to a more active M&A role? Or it is just focused on trying to increase dividend and buybacks? The second question is in Europe. With the current situation and geopolitical risk, et cetera, what should be the normalized margin for European business, not '25, but mid-run for you? And last one is a kind of follow-up on previous questions on the margin because we appreciate the data that you gave on the transformation initiatives. We see that new products weighed more and more on your sales, but there is no major reflection in the margin. So I don't know how we should think on this transformation process. It is just a way to keeping sales growing with no profitability tailwinds or the profitability will come in the coming years?

Thank you, Paco. On the first question, I think our short-term focus is to reduce debt. We are going to have a very strong focus on reducing our debt levels, I think, in the coming years. I don't think we are going to see more M&A. I think in the core business, there is no more bolt-on acquisitions that could be very value-enhancing for us. And we already have the capabilities we wanted to have in the new product space. I think we have built strong capabilities on Forex and CORBAN. I think now we still have a lot of organic growth to come from those capabilities and expanding on those capabilities. So I see a strong focus on debt reduction. And at the same time, I'm trying to maintain a good remuneration for shareholders. I think this year, we have grown 18%. I don't know if it's sustainable to have a 19% growth year-on-year, but we are going to put cash on to it. But if you ask me what is our primary focus, it's going to be debt reduction. On the second question, Europe, I think Europe now is pretty much affected by 2 things. One was the German strike. I think we are putting the basis to have a stronger Germany, which is the largest country in Europe. And the second thing is where most of our Forex business is and as we said, we've been investing a lot this year in trying to expand the business. We have opened more than 100 locations, more or less per week. So it's a very strong growth and has affected our profitability. And that's pretty much linked to your third question. I think we wanted to pretty much capture the opportunity that we saw in the market. Now we should extract the value of the growth we have done mainly in Forex. In CORBAN as well, I think CORBAN, I just want to improve profitability in 2025. And I think Forex business should bring us higher profitability. And it should impact the whole group on that front. I think all the investments that we are doing internally in the Forex business and CORBAN should give returns in the coming years so we should see an improvement of profitability in 2025, but mostly in 2026 and the years to come. I think the Forex business is a business that we have put a lot of money in 2024. We will put some in 2025 but in a much less way. And we should see improvements of the results of this investment in 2025 and mostly in 2026. And the CORBAN should bring -- we have signed 2 or 3 contracts, very important, in Latin America in which we should see important returns mainly in 2026. But I think in 2025, we are going to see positive or earnings-enhancing effects at the group level. So we should see some profitability uplifting on the margin side.

We'll now take our next question, this is from Alvaro Bernal from Alantra.

It has been partially responded already, but I'd like to deep dive in Argentina specifically. If you can tell us more about how the situation is there? How are you seeing volumes? And how well are you being able to trespass prices and controlling costs? That would be my first question. And then regarding the second one, you have talked about focusing on debt level reduction. Is there a specific leverage you have in mind and/or an absolute net debt number you're looking at?

Thank you, Alvaro. I think the Argentina situation is an economic situation which they are sizing right now. Their inflation rate now is more or less 2% per month. And the devaluation is more or less 1.5% per month in that range, 2%, 1.5%. So we are seeing a reactivation of the economy. It was very stable last year because of the hard measures that the Milei government took for the economy in order to stop inflation in order to minimize as much as possible inflation. And now it's starting to activate the economy. So we should see better growth of the economy and that should help our business. Volumes, I think they are going to be more positive this year in the overall of economy because the economy is going to be in a better situation. On the price part of it, I think we will follow inflation. I think you know that our prices are pretty much linked to labor tariffs and the labor tariffs are pretty much linked to inflation. It's true that the Milei government now is intervening a lot in the tariff negotiations. So all negotiations are private between the unions and the companies, but the government has to ratify them. And sometimes, the Milei government is putting them down even after an agreement has been reached between the companies and the unions. And that's a way to curb the inflation of the country. But I think in 2025, it's going to be pretty much linked to inflation. And it's true that this hard work that we have to do almost every month, in last year, we had a monthly price increase. And I think this year, it's going to be 9 to 10 price increases that we are going to have. But I'm confident that we'll be able to get those or achieve that transfer of labor cost increases to our customers. And that's about Argentina. About the debt levels, I think our short-term milestone is going to be to get below 2x, and I think that's going to be a focus that we have to balance with shareholders' remuneration, but that's going to be our short-term or our primary focus. Then we have said that we would like to be more or less closer to 1.5x. That would be more ideal way for us in the midterm.

We'll now take our next question. This is from Enrique Yáguez from Bestinver Securities.

I have also several questions about profitability. The first one is, could you be more precise about the improvement in profitability expected for this year and which business areas should drive this improvement in profitability? And also, I'd like to know what are your expectations for margins in 3 years' time. You said that 21% was a little bit demanding. So what will be your expectations? And finally, just a completely different question. In your previous strategic plan, ATMs were one of the new business initiatives that you highlighted. Is still this an area that you might consider or not?

Okay. The first one on profitability, Enrique, I think we are going to be pretty much close to consensus in absolute terms. I think that's the point or our starting point from profitability standpoint basis. And what are the areas that we're going to improve? I think as we said, the ForEx part in which we have invested a lot, we are going to see an improvement and that should drive our profitability up. The second one, I think Germany was pretty much affected by the strikes, but the strikes were really the tariff negotiation. So we have now -- I think we are being very successful in transferring these tariff negotiations to our customers in Germany. And at the same time, we are seeing some volume increase in Germany. So I think Germany and ForEx should drive our profitability up in 2025. And the second question was about ATMs or it's something that I was missing from the first one, Enrique, I don't know?

Yes. I also asked your opinion about the expected margins in 3 years' time.

No. I think we are -- margins are going to go up for sure. And I think we have improved 20 basis points this year, and I think that growth should be maintained or increased in the coming years on a yearly basis. So we should try to beat that path, and we should be closer to the 13%. And you asked me about ATMs. ATMs, we have some misfeelings about ATMs. I think banks are tracking about the ATMs. The thing is -- and I think it's part -- we are very -- we are looking very closely to the ATM business. The thing is that we need to see what is the business case on each of the different situations. Next week, we are going to start organically in our JV with Euronet the first batch of ATMs in Peru and in Dominican Republic. It is a total organic growth and pretty much linked to the tourist areas of both countries in which we think there is an issue that will be on the ownership of ATMs. What we are doing is, we are increasing our ATM maintenance business. So I think we are -- our ATMs division is growing -- is still very small, but it's growing quite healthy. But on the ownership of ATMs and getting the business risk of managing ATMs and having the ownership ourselves, we are very careful on the business cases. and at the moment, we are pretty much looking only at very touristic places and pretty much focused on the JV with Euronet because they are a major operator, and I think we feel much more comfortable to do with them.

[Operator Instructions] And we have a question from Manuel Lorente Ortega from Santander.

Yes. Sorry for the follow-up. I mean I think that you mentioned consensus that you were comfortable with consensus estimates for this year. Consensus is something difficult to track sometimes, but I'm seeing right now that consensus is expecting a 2% top-line growth for this year and roughly EUR 420 million of EBITDA that especially on the revenue side might look a little bit soft regarding what you have mentioned on the underlying trends. I don't know whether you can add something about top-line growth expectations for this year because I believe that you also have mentioned several moving parts in terms of profitability improvement.

Yes, it will be a bit higher on the sales side. I think we are going to grow much faster than that number of 2%. As we said, mid-single digits. I was more on the EBITA front, I think we are going to be a little bit above what is on the consensus. And where I think we are going to be pretty much on the spot is more on the net profit and a bit above the EUR 100 million in net profit. We are going to -- it's around EUR 110 million or something like that, I think we should be around that.

And there are no further questions. So I will now hand the conference back to the speakers for any closing comments.

Thank you very much. I just wanted to remind you the 3 last messages. I think this year 2024, we have delivered on the things that we promised at the end of last year. I think we have had strong sales with a better increase in EBITA and even more on net profit. I think the leverage has been decreased as we said. And I think the outlook for 2025 is quite promising. We are going to deliver higher sales growth, mid-single digit and a little bit above. We will increase profitability margins, and we would expect to have strong EPS growth. Our focus is going to be free cash flow generation and debt reduction with taking care of the important aspect of shareholder remuneration. I think this is the effort that the whole team is going to be pretty much focused on. Thank you very much.

Thank you. This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating, and you may now disconnect.