PT Avia Avian Tbk (AVIA) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for taking the time to participate in today's call. We appreciate your continued interest in Avia and welcome you to our quarter 1 2025 earnings call. [Operator Instructions]. Thank you again for being here today. Allow me to start by introducing myself. My name is Andreas Timoti Hadikrisno. I'm the Head of Investor Relations at Avia and will be moderating this earnings call today. We are joined today by 3 other presenters, starting with Mr. Ruslan Tanoko, the Vice President Director of our company; followed by Mr. Robert Tanoko, the Operations and Development Director; and finally, Mr. Kurnia Hadi, the Finance Director. In quarter 1, Avian Brands delivered a total revenue of USD 123 million. The company maintained robust profitability, reporting a gross margin of 45.8%, an EBITDA margin of 28.7%, and a net profit margin of 22.1%. Avian Brands emphasize operational excellence across all segments, ensuring industry-leading service to more than 58,000 customers. This commitment is further supported by over 9,000 dedicated employees and an extensive distribution network comprising 125 wholly owned DCs and 38 third-party DCs. This page highlights the company's quarter 1 2025 year-on-year performance. We had expected economic conditions to remain soft, at least in the first half of this year, and quarter 1 has confirmed this expectation. During this period, we also had fewer working days compared to last year due to the timing of the Eid holiday. This challenging market leads us to focus even more intensely on our growth strategies. The company decided to increase our prices by 2.5% until 5% on February 1 to offset the risk from the U.S. dollar against IBR exchange rate. The price hike was implemented across all the Architectural Solutions segments. This adjustment was generally accepted by our customers, considering that we did not participate in any price hikes last year, even though many of our competitors increased their prices. Avian Brands launched 3 new products in the Wall, Waterproofing, and Woodcare segments. The company strengthens its key product segments through continuous innovations, allowing us to expand our market reach and achieve a broader customer base. These innovations are further supported by high-quality services that foster long-term customer preference. Product innovations lies at the heart of our business, serving as the foundation for achieving sustainable growth in the future. We expanded our distribution footprint by adding 1 wholly owned DC. Empowered by our nationwide distribution network, we strive to provide the best service that is unrivaled in the industry. This commitment is evident in our 90% achievement of 1-day delivery service fulfillment. In addition, we have the capacity to facilitate more than 15,000 deliveries on a daily basis. We continue to refine our operations by proactively implementing improvements for greater efficiency and service excellence. Consolidated sales grew by 6% year-on-year, supported by positive achievements in both the Architectural Solutions and Trading Goods segments. The number of customers exceeded 52,000 retail outlets in the first quarter, growing by over 1,500 customers compared to the same period last year. Avian Brands remain committed to maintaining strong relationships with all customers regardless of market conditions. Even in challenging times, we have proven to be a trusted and reliable partner for our customers. I will now pass to Kurnia Hadi to continue the presentation.

Thank you, Andres, and good afternoon, everyone. As shown in the chart on the left, the Architectural Solutions segment contributed 81% of total sales. The Wall, Wood and Metal, and Waterproofing maintained their position as the top 3 sales contributor for the company. In Q1, the Wall segment delivered double-digit growth year-on-year. The Waterproofing segment also achieved positive growth during the quarter, while the Wood and Metal segment remained flat compared to the same period last year. Sales from traditional retail outlet made up 93% of our total revenue. Additionally, around 89% of overall sales are generated through our wholly owned distribution center. In Q1, Avian brand registered a consolidated gross profit of IDR 925 billion, growing by 4.5% compared to the same period last year. The consolidated gross margin for the quarter was 45.8%. The consolidated EBITDA was reported at IDR 580 billion, representing an EBITDA margin of 28.7%. On the other hand, consolidated net profit for the quarter was IDR 447 billion, with a recorded net profit margin of 22.1%. The recorded margin in Q1 are largely aligned with the full year 2024 achievement, reflecting consistent and stable profitability. Sales for the Architecture Solutions segment increased by 4% year-on-year in Q1, amounting to IDR 1.6 trillion. During the quarter, total volume for this segment grew by 5.8% over the same period last year. Our focus remains on the execution of our sustainable growth strategies. Despite the soft market condition, we are sharpening our efforts on key initiatives to reinforce our operational foundation. We are confident that this strategic measure will help us achieve stronger growth when the demand improves. The company recorded transactions from over 47,900 retail outlets, making an increase more than 1,600 retail outlets compared to the same quarter last year. The Trading Goods segment continued its growth trajectory in the first quarter, achieving a double-digit growth of 15.2% year-on-year, reaching IDR 381 billion. The growth was mainly supported by the strong performance in the PVC pipe category. The Trading Goods segment maintained strong synergy within our business. During Q1, more than 39,700 retail outlets conducted transactions in this segment, representing 76% of the total consolidated customer for the quarter. This page presents the gross profit by segment for the first quarter. The Architectural Solutions segment achieved a gross profit of IDR 851 billion. During the same period, the recorded gross margin for this segment was 52%. Regarding the Trading Goods segment, the gross profit for the quarter was IDR 74 billion, marking a 19.3% gross margin. I will now pass to Robert to continue the presentation.

Yes. Thank you, Hadi, and good afternoon, everyone. Moving on to the cost structure. You can see on the slide that Avian Brands maintained stable operating expenses during the first quarter. G&A expenses hovered around 3% of total sales, while sales and marketing accounted for 16.8%. Talking about the COGs breakdown, an increase in raw material prices led to a higher proportion of raw material costs accounting for 28.7% of total sales. The increase in raw material prices was affected by the weakening of Rupiah against the U.S. dollar. In addition, below-the-line marketing expenses were 7.8% of total sales. The company continues to optimize its BTL spending. Turning to our next slide. Working capital was well managed throughout the quarter, holding a consistent level at around 28% of total sales. Total capital expenditure accounted for 6.7% of total sales with around 3% allocated to the routine CapEx. Higher routine CapEx was driven by upgrades to our existing production facilities and warehouses. In addition, Avian Brands is accelerating the deployment of tinting machines at retail outlets as part of its strategic initiatives. For the full year 2025, we expected routine CapEx to normalize to around 2.5% of total sales, slightly above historical levels, driven by our aggressive throughout of tinting machines. Avian Brands generated strong free cash flow equivalent to around 15% of total sales. We are committed to maximizing shareholder returns and the company continues to uphold its policy of distributing a minimum of 50% of total net profit as dividends. For your information, the company distributed a total cash dividend of IDR 1.3 trillion for its full year 2024 net profit, representing an 80.4% payout ratio. Avian Brands continues its consistent track record of delivering above 80% dividend payout ratio. The figure on the left illustrates our achievements in the on-time collections of account receivables. The fact that retail outlets continue to prioritize Avian Brands in payment, both in good and bad times, underscores the strength of our relationship. This trust is a result of the company's dedicated efforts, and we remain committed to preserving and strengthening it for the long term. Meanwhile, the tables on the right highlights the company's effective management of uncollectible receivables and internal fraud. Avian Brands has successfully implemented a well-structured accountability system that minimizes internal fraud risks. This success is driven by a strong corporate culture and a business model that emphasizes transparency and robust internal controls. On March 13, Avian Brands announced its acquisition of 16.67% stake in PT Dextone Lemindo. Our nationwide distribution network serving over 58,000 building metro stores provides a strong foundation for expanding textile market presence. Currently, we are focusing on driving sales growth and reinforcing our combined position as the second largest player in the industry. We have an ambitious goal to become the #1 player in Indonesia's Adhesive and Sealants Market. Despite persistent economic pressures, further elaborated by global disruptions impacting the local market conditions, we maintain our full year 2025 guidance. We will not waver from our sustainable growth strategies, and our team is working relentlessly to ensure their disciplined execution across all aspects of our businesses. As the market continues to be weak, we doubled down our efforts to accelerate growth and market share gain, reinforcing our leadership position in the market. As previously disclosed, we have received shareholder approval for launching an additional share buyback program. The maximum authorized number of shares for buyback is 1.4 billion shares with a maximum allocated of IDR 1 trillion. The program will be implemented over a period of 12 months with the latest completion by April 2026. In addition, we are pleased to welcome Oscar Wezenbeek as our Independent Commissioner. We are excited to have him on board and look forward to further advancing our operations and governance practices. That concludes our Q1 2025 presentation. Thank you very much for your joining today's earnings call. I will pass now to Andreas to moderate the Q&A session. Thank you.

Thank you, Robert. We can now proceed with the Q&A session, which will last for 1 hour. So, if you have any questions, feel free to ask. First question coming from Felix. Why is the performance of trading goods so strong? Are there any catalysts possibly in the pipe segment or elsewhere? How much U.S. dollar against IDR exposure does Avian have?

So I'll take the first part of the question from Felix. So, I think I mentioned this before, right? If you look at the competitiveness landscape in the trading goods or specifically in the pipe segment, the number of competitions that we have is far, far less than that of the paint company. So simply put, it's a much easier market for us to navigate because the competitions are not as strong as what we see in the paint market. Our largest competitor in the PVC market actually is a local company. None of the multinational companies actually make it in the top 3 in Indonesia. So, I think that gives you a bit of context with regards to the competitiveness landscape. That's why it's just easier. IDR exposure, I'll pass it to Hadi to answer.

Yes. Thank you, Ruslan. So, for Avian, around 70% of raw material is affected by U.S. dollar, 35% is directly imported and the other is actually is sourced locally, but the price is related to the U.S. dollar. And for raw material itself, account for around 50% of the total COGS. So roughly it's around 25%, 26% of sales.

Next question coming from Divya Gangahar. Congratulations on a resilient set of results. Would you consider further ASP increase to offset FX impact?

So I think I'll answer that. So, since we implemented our price hike on the 1st of February, there has been at least 4 other companies that decided to follow suit with regards to their price hike. So, the short answer to that is, yes, we will definitely consider the impact of FX if they continue to weaken. But luckily, from what we've been seeing in the past few days, right, rupiah has strengthened a little bit to IDR 16,650, and that's still within the range that we have allowed when we implemented our price hike on the 1st of February.

Next question coming from Handyman. Just wondering how Avia can achieve and maintain much higher margins compared to the other global paint companies. How would Avia respond if competitors can achieve the same margins and initiated more aggressive price war?

Yes. So if you look back at the Indonesian paint industry, it is quite mature, right? If I'm not mistaken, the oldest paint company in Indonesia is more than 80 years old. So, in that context, Avian being a 46, 47-year-old company is relatively young. What I've noticed in the past 23 years that I've been involved in this company, helping the families is that, the high margins that exist in Indonesia is only not with Avian. Another close competitor of ours who also published their Indonesian results also post similar profit margin. So -- and if we look back during COVID time when price hikes happened the most, 6 times in 2 years, never happened before. Well, what we noticed was that the participants from all top 5 players decided to also implement their price hikes. So, I think from that point of view, it's safe to say that I think the desires from all the top 5 players to maintain their high profit margin in Indonesia is still very strong. So last year, a few of them implemented price hikes, even though we did not. But some of them, again, this year decided to implement another price hike. So, I think that's basically what I can share. So, any other companies that try to enter Indonesia using an effort of just making the prices cheaper is really not going to work because when consumers buy the product in the paint segment, they obviously look at the brand. They don't look at just prices.

Next question coming from Samir Mehta. Can I get some update on competitive dynamics, number one, on the main competitors and market share trends; number 2, pricing and discounts by competitors; number 3, our positioning across premium, mid- and low-end paints? And how do we stand versus our biggest competitors?

So on the first one, on the main competitors and market share trend. So, I mean, we obviously only requested Frost & Sullivan to actually conduct a broad market share study just before the listing. So, the data that we had was back in 2020. while we did have a definite market leadership in Indonesia, our second competitor back then had about maybe 6 or so percent point difference in terms of market share. And in the past few years, they have grown slightly faster than we have. So, with that in mind, we think that the gap has narrowed. If it was 6% between us and them, I think it's now between maybe 4 to 5-ish because we've also done relatively okay even though the market has not been growing. The other thing is that in response to other players, right? So, if we look at the player #3, #4 and #5, in our assumption, I don't think they have actually been growing because the market conditions for building materials have not been all that easy, right? We can see at other cement industries and a few others in the ceramic tile and so on that we basically can see that the market has not been growing well. In particular, if we look at the first quarter of this year, right, there's a company that publishes their report for their Q1 this year, which is Sejati Sentosa. So Sejati Sentosa has 2 different business. One is the distribution side and the second one is the retail side. The retail side, they operate under Mitra10 shops. So Mitra10 currently has maybe almost 60 outlets in Indonesia. So, it was quite surprising in a way that when they -- when we saw their results for Q1 that the retail actually dropped by 1.5%. Now I need to highlight that last year, they actually added 8 new shops. So, you can imagine that their SSSG is even lower. Now if you think into the context of who actually go into the Mitra10 as compared to those who goes to the traditional shops, well, I think we all can conclude that the customers that go to Mitra10 or a modern trade tend to be a bit higher in class because they're comfortable shopping at supermarket, building materials and so on, whereas those kind of consumers that go to the traditional market, to the traditional shops tend to be painters and direct homeowners and so on. So, the market has not been easy. On the second question, pricing and discounts by competitors. Look, I think it goes back to the previous question, right, where the desires to maintain high profit margin in Indonesia is still very strong among the top 5 players. So obviously, pricing and discounts, pricing, not so much in terms of competition. It's more on the discount and promotions, right? So that obviously happens the most between us as the leading player in the decorative segment and the second player in Indonesia. Many other players basically do different kinds of things. They also try to imitate some of our promotions here and there. But I don't think they are able to actually gain significant market shares in Indonesia. The third question, our positioning across premium, mid and low end. The biggest area of weakness for us is in the premium market. And the reason for that is that if you imagine the consumers for the premium market, these are our consumers with money, right? So, for them, bargaining power or value cheaper products really doesn't matter, right? They can always have money. And with that in mind, the higher-end consumers tend to be quite loyal to the brands that they've used before. So, if we look at it from all the different segments that exist within the decorative paint, in my opinion, the premium market is the toughest one to crack. So, it definitely will take us a bit more time to gain our momentum in the premium segment, considering the fact that even though our company is 47 years old, we only started venturing into premium market about 20 years or so ago, whereas other leading companies in Indonesia, they've been around for this segment more than 60 years. So, we still have a lot to catch up. Now, if we look in the mid-tier and low-end markets, well, our position strengthened significantly. We believe that in the mid-tier, we're at least #2, whereas in the low end, we should be #1. So, most of the work still needs to happen in the mid-tier and obviously, in the premium segment. Thank you.

Are there any questions? Additional question coming from Sam Mehta. Thank you. Another question. If macro conditions in Indonesia do not change much, what can we do to accelerate growth on our own?

Yes. So, I think we highlighted the fact that when the market has really not been growing, the only way for us to sustainably grow is by getting it from the others. Now this is where the role of R&D come into play because I think if you noticed in the past 3 years or so, we've been launching new products much more faster than what we had done previously. And this was done on purpose so that we can actually look at the various segments that we currently can still improve our positioning, gain more market shares and so on. So if we look back at the products that we launched specifically in this quarter, we launched one product called Avitex TOP. This is a product that we didn't have before. And this is a product that is specifically designed to attack. There are 2 large - maybe 3 large regional players in which this product is directly competing. So, we specifically created this product. We look at their products to benchmark and then we come up with a product that is superior than theirs. And then we launched this into the market, knowing that this is the exact product that we will use to target these 3 large regional players. And if we look at the right-hand side, which is Boyo Wood Stain 2-in-1, this is another product that was specifically launched to attack the market share of one of the companies who has a presence in this wood stain category. They're very strong in this segment. And it's a product more in the more premium quality. So, we're trying to create something with added value, which is why it's called 2-in-1. So, the only way for us to continue with our market share gain is by obviously getting it from the others, and that's basically what we've been focusing on. Thank you.

Next question coming from Danif. Which component of raw materials saw largest increase?

Yes. So, I'll answer to that question. So, the most affected of raw materials mostly are affected by the effect of the exchange rate, the weakening of rupiah against U.S. dollar, right? But overall, on this resin category, is also most impacted by the increase of raw materials of which is the monomer price for the resin as well as the raw material for the solvent-based resin, which is the soybean oil, which is also some pressure of high demand and shortage due to weather conditions. But we believe that the prices are going to normalize going forward to the Q2 2025. And most of the other raw materials, like including the TiO2 pigments, everything, actually still stabilized. So, we don't see any worry about that from the pigment side.

Thank you, Robert. Next question coming from Kevin Halim. Hi Avian management. Several questions from my side. Number one, can you share the cost outlook for upcoming quarters? Will lower commodity prices, especially oil price impact your margin positively? Number 2, can you share how the paint volume looks like in the month of April? Number 3, any particular reason why your wall paint segment has been growing the fastest?

Thank you for the question, Kevin. So, the first one, cost outlook for the upcoming quarters, whether will the lower commodity prices, especially oil, impact our margin positively. In our view, the impact from oil price has always been indirect. So, in the medium to longer term, if oil can stay relatively lower, then obviously, it will be better for us, right? Some of our products are directly impacted by oil, including plastic packaging, for instance. So obviously, the moment the prices for oil go up, then the resins for plastic packaging also immediately go up. But the rest of the other products don't really get impacted by oil prices that instant. It usually has a time lag of a few months. Number 2, can you share how the paint volume looks like in the month of April? So, I think I wanted to highlight that if the month of March this year is exactly the same in terms of the month of March last year in terms of the number of working days, our performance will definitely improve quite a bit because due to the change of the Eid holidays, we did definitely have lesser working days in the month of March. So that impacted our sales quite a bit. So, in contrast to that, the month of April last year, we had more holidays, whereas the month of April this year, we have less holidays. So, the growth with regards to the volume is actually in the higher teens. So, we're performing much, much better in the month of April because we're actually gaining a few days, 3 days to be exact. So yes, I think that's what I can share about the paint volume. But maybe one thing that I could add to you guys. So, I just came back from a week-long of essentially road trip, but not meeting investors, but rather than to actually meet customers. So, I went from Surabaya all the way to Madiun and Kediri all the way to Yogyakarta. So, I met with a bit more than a dozen customers. So, the one thing that they all shared was that the month of fasting leading to the Eid holiday was really quite soft. So, I think that's the one thing that I could share with you. So, they all said that, look, we didn't see any pickup of any significant amount during the fastening month, which usually is the highest month because, so people don't really repaint so much. So that's the one thing that I can share with you. The third question, any particular reason why the wall paint segment has been growing the fastest. So, I think for many years, we identified that an area of weakness for us has always been the wall segment. in contrast, if we look at the Wood and Metal as well as Waterproofing, we know for a fact that we have market -- clear market leadership positions. So, because of that, then we have been launching more products in the wall segment as compared to the Wood and Metal or Waterproofing. And obviously, because we selectively target some of these products that our regional or local competitors have, I think that has been able to help us with our faster growing in the -- in the Wall segment as compared to the other 3. Wood and Metal is a segment that has been relatively stagnant because there's been many, many more product replacements. So, if we go back 3 decades ago or so, most of our doors and window frames were all made out of wood. Now no more, right? There's been a lot of product replacements, UPVC, aluminum, stainless steel, glass and you name it. So, we know for a fact that the Wood and Metal segment is going to be one segment where growth is not going to be easy to come because the market itself is not growing. Thank you.

Next question coming from Dafa Ik Saadi. I've been looking into your trading goods lineup during quarter 1, 2025, which product segment under trading goods saw the highest growth? If you are able to share, I'd also be interested to hear the growth percentage for that segment and how you see it performing for the rest of the year?

Yes. I think as mentioned before, the growth from the trading goods segment actually came from the PVC pipe. And that's obviously because the competitiveness landscape in the PVC pipe industry is not as tough as that in the -- as compared to the paint industry. We believe that we'd still be able to maintain a double-digit growth for the Trading Goods segment and in particular, in the pipe segment. Another small contribution coming from the Trading Goods are from the paint accessories. So, we also think that we'll also be able to grow the paint accessories market also in the double-digit growth. However, in terms of revenue, the pipe within the trading goods far greater than that of the paint accessories. But we remain confident in our ability to deliver double-digit growth in the Trading Goods segment, mostly dominated by PVC pipe. We're also adding a few more products to complement our product portfolio, including like water hose, for instance. So, we'll be launching a water hose to add to our PVC pipe lineup in the next 2 weeks. Thank you.

Next question coming from Farrell Agung. Number one, growth CapEx and capacity utilization. Could you elaborate on the planned growth capital expenditure or CapEx for this year and the foreseeable future? Specifically, what percentage of the current production capacity utilization is prompting this investment? Number 2, strategic momentum of growth CapEx. Considering the current market dynamics and company's operational performance, do you believe this is the optimal time to proceed with the planned growth CapEx? Or would a more conservative approach be advisable? There are 2 questions.

Hadi, do you want to take the first one?

Yes. I think our growth CapEx is meant not only for a short term, right? We plan this third factory for like 20 years to come. So, we understand that currently, the economic condition is not that good. But we already planned this CapEx for a long time. So, I think it's still reasonable for us to continue with the plan. For this year, we projected -- we budgeted around IDR 350 billion our CapEx for this factory in Cirebon.

If I can add to that, keep in mind that when it comes to our water-based production utilization, we're actually at more than 90% because the wall paint segments have been growing very well as well as the waterproofing, for instance, and most of them are water-based. We are going to encounter into some production bottleneck if we do not proceed with our Cirebon third factory. Now that being said, we are extending the deadline of our Cirebon factory completion. It was originally meant to actually be completed in 2025. But now we're extending a portion of that so that they will only be completed in 2026. So, we are being mindful of the current market conditions. Let me answer the second one to that. Considering the current market dynamics and company operational, do you believe this is the optimal time to proceed with the planned growth CapEx? Look, the -- one of the aspects that we mentioned earlier with regards to the CapEx is that in the addition of tinting machines. I think this is still a strategy that we believe will position Avian brands in a much, much more strong, with much more strong fundamentals going into the medium or even long term because the capital that is required to, for tinting machine deployment is one that not many medium or even smaller companies can imitate, right? And I think with more and more emergence of younger generation store operators, these generations are a lot more easier to influence. So, we can explain the benefits of having multiple, the benefits of having tinting machines as compared to ready-mix products when it comes to working capital, slow and debt inventory and so on and so on. So, but ultimately, for us, the most important metric is that the revenue per tinting machine. So, while we have been adding more tinting machines, I can share with you that our revenue per tinting machine have been growing. So, I think that's a very good indicator. So, we're not diluting our revenue in any way. So, the revenue per tinting machine has also been increasing.

Coming question, another one from David Gunn. Could you share with us if there are any progress with regards to the 3 million housing program?

Yes, David, I think your guess is just as good as ours. I think what I believe is that the government of Indonesia under the new President, it seems to me that they're trying to launch too many ambitious programs. But obviously, what they're trying to do because they don't have enough budget is trying then to cut from all the other budgets that they have. But I think the fact that they signed with, if I'm not mistaken, the Qatari government to help us with at least a 1 million housing program, well, I think it's a step in the right direction because then they don't have to bear the entire cost of the planned 3 million housing programs on their own, right? There are outside parties, FDIs that will be coming into Indonesia that hopefully will participate in the housing program. But between when this initiative was first mentioned until now, which is, what, 5, 6 months, we really haven't seen anything of significant movements. So, I think there's still a lot more things to be done. And keep in mind that the, when it comes to local regulations that will be required to get all these things done. Look, we're trying to build warehouses in multiple locations. And some of the permits have taken more than 8 months. So I don't know how much success the Qatari government, let's say, will have with regards to their planned 1 million housing program. If us as locals, we also cannot get these permits to be given to us as easily as that. And so I think it remains to be seen what this initiative will actually bring to the country. And I think it will take a bit more than a year for us to really see the impact. An additional note is that we continue to make progress with various government departments when it comes to introducing our products, when it comes to inviting them to visit our facility, our R&D centers so that they know that we are one of the right companies to partner up with, in particular, because of our wholly owned DCs presence, which are available in more than 140 locations in the country. Thank you.

Next question coming from Theodorus Melvin. Hi Avia management. Thank you for the opportunity. This is Melvin from StockBit. I have a few questions. Number one, could you provide some insights into the sales trend for second quarter 2025, particularly in light of Lebaran seasonality shift? Number 2, I noticed that ASP has risen quarter-over-quarter, which is interesting given the broader trend of weakening consumer purchasing power in Indonesia. Could you share more details on this? Two questions from Melvin.

Yes. So from the dozen or so customers that I met during my visit into the market last week, Melvin, as I mentioned earlier, right, the one thing that they have all in common is that they don't sense that the spending or the traffic that visited their shops during the pre-Lebaran was actually rising. So, this, but I think this is pretty much in line with our expectations, right? We also expected that Lebaran this year is not going to be one where it's going to be particularly strong. You can also look at the number of people which decided to come home, right? It's down a couple of million or something like that. So, I think because people don't come home as, I mean, the number of people don't go home as high as how they were in previous years, I think that also could lead to, well, I don't really need to repaint my house because the number of people visiting my house may not be as many as the previous years. So yes, so I think it's safe to say that the buying power from consumers is still quite weak. The second on the ASP that has been risen quarter-over-quarter. But I think you're a bit mistaken Melvin. Maybe Hadi wants to add to that.

Yes. Actually, when we're comparing ASP in Q1 2025 to Q1 2024, there is a slight decrease from IDR 34,600 to IDR 33,800 per kg. However, throughout 2024, our ASP tend to decline in Q3 and Q4. As we mentioned in the previous earnings call, this was primarily due to strong growth in the wall paint category during this quarter. Wall paint, I think, has ASP around IDR 20,000 per kg, which is significantly lower compared to overall blended ASP for paint at around IDR 33,000, IDR 34,000. So, and because the growth for wall paint is outperforms other category, so it also drove the ASP to decline to trend.

But it's still a very small decline, Melvin, about 2% or so.

Yes. But if we look at for Q1 '25, the net ASP is approximately about IDR 33,900 compared to the full year '24 is around IDR 33,400. So still increased by 1.3%. But this is in line with the price increase that we implemented for the paint product in 1st of February '25.

Thank you, Hadi. Is there any other questions? Shall we close?

Yes. I mean, there's...

If you have any other questions that have not been answered, please do not hesitate to reach out. I will make sure to coordinate with the management and get back to you as soon as possible. Once again, we appreciate your participation in our quarter one 2025 earnings call today and hope to see you soon again in our next earnings call. Take care. Bye-bye.

Yes. Bye.

Bye.

Bye.