PT Indosat Ooredoo Hutchison Tbk (ISAT) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

All right. [Foreign Language] Good morning from Doha. My name is Andreas Goldau. I'm Head of Investor Relations at Ooredoo Group. Following up on our filing from yesterday at the Qatar Stock Exchange, we want to share our plans for a new Indonesian telco powerhouse with you. Apologies for the timing of this call on a Friday morning, but we wanted to give you an early opportunity to learn more about our plans and also ask questions. Please do note the disclaimer on Slide #2 with regards to forward-looking statements and the pending nature of the transaction. This call will be recorded, and there will be a replay available on our website as well. Let me introduce today's speaker. You will be familiar with Aziz Aluthman Fakhroo, the MD of Ooredoo Group. He has been a regular presenter at our quarterly analyst calls. And the Indonesian investors will be familiar with Vikram Sinha, who is the Chief Operating Officer at Indosat Ooredoo. So on that note, I will hand over to our MD. Please, Aziz.

Perfect. Thank you, Andreas. We're all gathered today, and we're very excited to announce that Ooredoo Group on one side and CK Hutchison on the other have reached an agreement to merge our respective Indonesian operations. So this is Indosat Ooredoo for Ooredoo and CK Hutchison 3 for Indonesia. We believe this is a great transaction. And it will redefine the landscape of telecoms in Indonesia and create significant value, for which we'll demonstrate during this presentation. So putting in perspective. The combined entity has a pre-synergy value of around $6 billion. We believe this is a -- we've spent 9 months analyzing this transaction, discussing it, due diligence-ing it; and we're convinced that we can extract a lot of value for all shareholders for this transaction. We've identified close to $300 million to $400 million of run rate synergies post integration, recurring synergies. This comes from mainly 2 big [ boats ]. One is on the technology and network side. Going through the analysis, we've realized that we can decommission duplicate sites, close to 25% to 30% of the existing footprint. We can have more efficient use of our spectrum and, of course, optimize our IT stack and all duplicated infrastructure. Also, on the nonnetwork side there's a lot of synergies and optimization that can be done on the sales distribution side and also on the product complementary. Next slide, please, to go over the transaction. This is a combination by way of a legal merger. It's an all-stock transaction. The surviving company, the MergeCo, will be named Indosat Ooredoo Hutchison and will be -- remain listed on the Indonesian stock market. Indosat Ooredoo Hutchison will issue new shares to shareholders of H3I. The combined pre-synergy implied enterprise value, as I already mentioned, is close to $6 billion. The equity split is of 67.4% for Ooredoo, 32.6% for H3I. And I'll go in a bit more detail in the next slide on exactly what are the structure of the deal. We've jointly agreed, and we're very happy for this, to have nominated Vikram Sinha, which is the current COO of Indosat and has been one of the key driving force for the turnaround of Indosat in the past 2 years. He will take over the MergeCo as the CEO. This is, of course, subject to the EGMS approvals. Nicky Lee, the current CFO of H3I, will be nominated as the CFO of Ooredoo -- of the MergeCo. Ahmad Al-Neama, the current CEO of Indosat, will remain in his seat till closing of the transaction and then will be nominated as a MergeCo commissioner. Cliff Woo, again, will also remain in his seat as CEO of H3I till closing and upon closing will also be nominated as a MergeCo commissioner. All of this is, of course, subject to approval. It was important to retain both Ahmad and Cliff on the Board because we want to guarantee continuity. Ooredoo Group and CK Hutchison will become joint controlling shareholders of the MergeCo. Now this transaction is, of course, subject to, on one side, shareholder approvals at the EGM; and of course, governmental approval and regulatory approval. We are targeting a close of the transaction for the end of the year. Next slide, please. So the pro forma shareholding structure. If you look at today, pre the announcement of this transaction, Ooredoo owned 65% -- could you put everyone on mute, please? Thank you. So Ooredoo currently holds 65% of Indosat, which is listed, through a vehicle called Ooredoo Asia. As mentioned before, the exchange ratio is 67%:33% for Ooredoo versus the new share issues for H3I. In order to achieve joint control, CK Hutchison will acquire the remaining 16.7% stake from Ooredoo Group in Ooredoo Hutchison Asia, which is the new holding vehicle. This will result both of us owning 50%, 50% of that vehicle which will then own 65% of the listed entity. And this equalization payment is for a cash consideration to Ooredoo Group shareholders of $387 million. Next slide, please. As you've noticed, we're going from being -- having Indosat as a subsidiary to a joint control format, so Indosat for Ooredoo Group will no more be considered a subsidiary, but it will be considered as a joint venture. That means that going forward, upon closing of the transaction, we -- Ooredoo Group will no more recognize nor the revenue, nor the EBITDA contribution but will directly recognize the 33% of profits merger contribution to its net income. And the immediate impact of this transaction is the release of Ooredoo Group's balance sheet. We expect a significant net debt-to-EBITDA ratio reduction at the Ooredoo Group level. We will actually fall below the current Board guidance of 1.5 to 2.5x net debt-to-EBITDA after closing. Next slide. This merger is completely aligned with the strategy we've announced as Ooredoo Group and it's aligned on all points. It's a strong dividend potential. By combining this -- these 2 businesses, we believe that it will drive the profitability and value accretion for the shareholders of both Indosat shareholders -- but also Ooredoo Group. And this will flow through higher profitability and therefore elevate the dividend potential from Indonesia. The combination of both platforms of Ooredoo and CK Hutchison will create a vehicle of scale which will deliver better synergies, as already explained, but also allow us to pursue growth in new areas in development; in advancing B2B, e-commerce, data service; and advancing all the different front lines of the digital economy. And as mentioned, we really believe that the synergies that this transaction will release are extremely value accretive. I'll hand over now to Vikram. He'll take you through some further details. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much, Aziz. I am delighted to have the opportunity to share the vision and the digital transformation plan this newco have for Indonesia and to our investor. We all know how important market consolidation [ was ] for the telecom sector, but what is important to highlight here is that the newco will be a clear, strong #2 with the scale and the opportunity [ size ] of serving more and more customer. And Aziz spoke about the significant synergy which can be brought in; what we saw, that both the business is very complementary. And that is how we did a very detailed work, and we saw that it will help us use all the asset and make sure that we are delivering a lot of value to our customer. If you go to the next slide. Let me take this opportunity to highlight some of the challenges; and how this newco, how this thing, MergeCo, will help mitigate it. While -- we all know that telco sector is very high on CapEx intensity, but when you compare Indonesia with global benchmark, globally, CapEx-to-revenue is in the range of 12% to 15%, but in Indonesia, as we speak, it is in the range of 25% to 27% for the industry. And what this will lead to is better profitability driving the right resources and all asset putting together. Again we have seen in the region large number of players in the market is not sustainable. And this is -- again we have been watching this for last 2, 3 years. Again this move will make sure that there is a more sustainable market structure; and again highlighting the important thing for the country, like spectrum. This will also lead to more efficient allocation of spectrum. And let me remind all of you, post COVID, we have all seen the important role which telecom sector play for the country in terms of moving the whole economy. And I think the government of Indonesia has also been taking very positive step, and it was visible in omnibus law. So again -- if you go to the next slide. We spoke about clear #2. Look at the revenue number. The MergeCo will have this scale of close to $3 billion revenue, $1.2 billion EBITDA and close to 100 million customer. All these things will help make sure that we leverage on our scale. If you go to the next slide. I think it is very important for all our investor to know that Indonesia will be the powerhouse in the region when it comes to digital economy. With more than 100 million of population in the age bracket of 20 to 40, with the country vision with the direct push coming from the highest level from the President, I think this is something which we have all been seeing. What this newco will do is to support that country vision not only to our B2C customer and consumer by giving them the right -- by being their right digital life cycle partner on their journey, by also supporting Industry 4.0. We all know that -- how important it [ is becoming ] post COVID, on some of our learning on working with SMEs and supporting. So this MergeCo will have all those expertise and scale to do that. And if you go to the next slide, I think, with this, I hand over back to Andreas. Over to you, Andreas.

Yes. Thank you very much, Vikram and Aziz. We are now coming to the Q&A part. We have a very tight time line today, so we have to finish in 0.5 hours sharp because both Vikram and Aziz have a press event right after this. [Operator Instructions]

So I see the first question here from [ Hans Tantio ]. I'll just read it out, and you can also see it on the screen. "Vikram, congrats on being the merged company CEO. My question to you is how will you maintain the growth momentum that Indosat already have for the last couple of years with the merged company." Vikram, that's a question for you.

Thanks, [ Hans ]. I think -- last 10 quarter, as Indosat, as a team, I think we have demonstrated, and today, our fundamentals are very strong. And Aziz highlighted that we took 9 months, but during that 9 months, we went into a very meticulous planning to make sure that we pick up all the learning and we get everything right. So what I can assure you, [ Hans ], that for us, 2 thing is very important: one, the customer experience and how we make sure we deliver to that; second, very clear support from 2 strong shareholders, [ straight ], and to ensure that we build on the growth momentum. We will be getting into a more detailed work post signing, but what I can assure you is we are fully prepared. And we demonstrated it in the last 10 quarter and we will build on it.

Great. Thank you very much. We had another question on the will the merger change the nature of Ooredoo guarantee on the Indosat bonds. Aziz, do you want to take this one?

The merger in itself will require, of course, depending on the facility, specific approvals from the lenders at Indosat -- at the Indosat level. Current Indosat bonds are not guaranteed by Ooredoo. They are guaranteed by Indosat, which is listed on the stock market, but you'll have the reassurance that now behind Indosat you have not 1 but 2 very strong shareholders between Ooredoo and CK Hutchison.

Excellent. Thank you. Then there's a question about the spectrum. Is the entire spectrum going to be retained, Vikram?

I think this is a [ very important, I mean ], good question, but let me remind all of you that with the omnibus law the country is very focused on efficient use of spectrum. So I think we are going through that process. And we believe that it is very important for the country, [ I mean ], to ensure the agenda of government digital transformation, that we are able to retain it, but again I just want to remind that the government policies in the recent time have been very favorable. And we'll work very closely with the [indiscernible]. We explained them our plan, and these things will get clear over the period of time.

Great. Thank you very much. Is this deal going to trigger a mandatory tender offer for Indosat Ooredoo given the change in control in Ooredoo Hutchison Asia? Aziz, a question for you.

No. This transaction will not trigger an MTO. As you know, the rules of the transaction, this transaction is subject to EGM approval. And there is an obligation to buy out at the [ IFA ] price, which is currently today below -- significantly below the trading -- or current trading price, to buy out any dissenting shareholders, but there's no MTO.

Excellent. That question actually was twice here, but there is another question about what is the expected net leverage of the merged entity. And could you throw some more insights into the drivers of the reduction in pro forma net leverage below 1.5x at the Ooredoo Group level?

Okay. So at the Ooredoo Group level, the reduction in leverage is close to -- is automatic, and this is just by the accounting treatment of Indosat. Indosat will no more be treated as a subsidiary. It will be treated as a joint venture, so by de facto, it gets deconsolidated. That means we don't have any more contribution at the revenue or at the EBITDA level. We only have a direct contribution of the pro rata profit at the net profit level. At the same time, on the balance sheet, the liabilities are removed. So this is what is going to trigger at the Ooredoo Group the fact that -- our net debt-to-EBITDA ratio, which is currently in the middle of the range of the guidance between 1.5x and 2.5x, to drop below the 1.5x guidance. At the Indosat, the merged entity will stay below the guidance of the Board of 2.5x for Ooredoo. So Indosat leverage should be below that.

Then there's here a question about the expected change in CapEx on Ooredoo Group level and for Indonesia obviously as well, yes.

Change in CapEx at the Ooredoo Group level. From an accountant -- an accounting's perspective, from the moment Indosat the -- from the moment the merger is closed, as Indosat will be accounted as a joint venture, we will not account for the CapEx at the group. As you know, Indosat has been self-funding its CapEx out of the free cash flow generated by its own operations. So from a free cash flow perspective, there is also no impact to the group. We believe that going forward the CapEx for Indosat will be, in a way, much more rationalized. As mentioned many times during the presentation, there's a lot of rationalization that can occur during -- in the network, in the IT stack. And this should bring recurrent run rate synergies of close to $300 million to $400 million per year. Of course, part of that will be used to offset some of the CapEx requirement. We'll benefit as a merged entity of a much larger and biggest network. And this will allow us to have a much more stable base and to rationalize our investment and deliver also higher return on investment for Indosat shareholders.

Great. Thank you. I've seen some questions coming in through the chat now. Please use the Q&A box here, but since Aziz mentioned the synergy questions, [ Nuno ] is asking, "What kind of synergies do you expect to be realized, rationalization [ of towers ]?"

So as mentioned during the presentation, we've spent 9 months discussing this merger with CK Hutchison. If you followed, we actually announced 2 extensions to the MOU. The reason was especially to ensure that this transaction will deliver the value to our shareholder and to ourselves and that we verified a lot of the synergies assumptions. We didn't want this transaction to be, I don't want to say this in bad way, but -- a merger prepared by bankers which is impossible to execute. This is a merger where we've gone into a lot of detail and due diligence on the network, on the IT stack, on all the operational components of both businesses. And they are highly complementary. A big bulk of the synergies are, of course, coming from optimization of the network. When you look at today's footprint of Indosat on one side and CK 3's footprint on the other, you realize that there's close to 25% to 30% duplicate sites which can be canceled and decommissioned. This is long-term saving in terms of OpEx and CapEx. Similarly, on the IT stack, over time, we will integrate both businesses and remove all duplications, whether it's billing system, IT systems, et cetera. This is also a significant value to be collected. And then there's the nonnetwork side, as mentioned. All the distribution network, all the sales network, et cetera can be rationalized by the benefit of combining both brands.

Excellent. [ Lydia Ho ] would like to know if we are expecting a positive impact on reduced credit ratings.

By virtue of deconsolidation and having Indosat treated as a joint venture, as I said, our net debt-to-EBITDA ratio, which is probably the single biggest criteria credit ratings are looking at, is dropping below -- is reducing significantly and is actually dropping below the Board guidance of 1.5x. So we do expect positive impact or at least neutral impact but normally should be even positive.

Excellent. Thank you. We answered the question already about the accounting as a joint venture, so we're going to move back to the Q&A session here. Can you share how many shares will be issued by Indosat for the share swap, and at what price?

So the merger ratio is 63:32 -- sorry, 67%:33% for Ooredoo. And we are issuing new shares of 32%. These shares are issued directly to CK Hutchison. And then CK Hutchison will contribute these shares to the holding vehicle, where Ooredoo already holds the shares in Indosat. At that point of time, once they're contributed, Hutchison will acquire an additional 17% of shares from Ooredoo from that vehicle for a total consideration of $387 million.

Thank you very much. One question for Vikram here: "What's the plan for the 5G strategy in the short term and in the long term, especially with regards to synergies in the spectrum between [indiscernible]?"

It think again a very good question. Yesterday, we were in Surabaya. We launched our [ third city ]. And Indosat has already started the 5G journey. And I think, with 2 very strong, committed shareholder, this newco will be in a very good position to drive the 5G country vision at the right time and at the right pace. So from a 5G perspective, it is looking very good.

Thank you very much. Then we have a question from Omar Maher from EFG. What do you mean with the obligation to buy out dissenting shareholders at the [ IFA ] fair value? Can you please clarify, Aziz?

So under OJK regulation and the type of this transaction, shareholders which would vote -- minority shareholders which will vote against the transaction would have the right to be bought out at the [ IFA ] valuation. The [ IFA ] valuation, if I'm not mistaken, is referring to a share price of IDR 5,247 versus -- I think, the last time I checked, the current share price is trading at IDR 6,400-something, so it's actually below the share price. The holding vehicle which will hold the shares between CK Hutchison and Ooredoo will be the vehicle that will acquire these shares if any shares are tendered.

Great. Thank you very much. Then there is a question with regards to the estimated enterprise value of USD 6 billion. What is the rough split there between equity, debt and cash?

So that's a pro forma number. The exact split, I don't know. [ Ajay ], are you on the line? Do you have -- can you maybe answer that question?

For sure, Aziz. I think the approximate split is about -- net debt is about half the number approximately. Do you want to get a guidance on that? So half would be about the equity value and half will be about net debt [ there ].

Great. Thank you very much, [ Ajay ]. Another question for Vikram coming up here: What's the situation with regards to tower leases in Indonesia? Usually they are based on 10-year unbreakable contracts. Is it going to be a challenge for decommissioning sites?

No. Again, 2 thing I want to highlight here: One, Indosat, standalone also, we had some opportunities coming up our way. There are close to 200, 500 to 3,000 [ tower ] which was up for renewals in next 12 months. And these are all opportunity for us, but as Aziz highlighted, during our due diligence process, what we realized, that on our partner side they are much more flexible. So this is also a big advantage which we felt, and these are the things we studied in much more detail and that is why it took us longer. And these are things which are very complementary which I can highlight.

Great. Thank you very much, Vikram. Then we got another question here. "Congrats to the management team on the merger. A few questions: What is the revenue market share objective for the merged company? And would you aspire to improve price discipline in the industry?" On network synergies, would you like to close 25% duplicate sites, or would you redeploy them to improve coverage and capacity of the merged company? And what is the network coverage objective outside of Java for the next 1 or 2 years? I think that's on Vikram's side again.

Let me start with the last question which I picked up. I think again I'll repeat myself. When we studied the whole integration and -- we found out that it is, this whole business, both when we put together, is very complementary. So it gives us an opportunity in Java. Let me start with Java, first, which contributes to 75% of the industry revenue. It put us in an opportunity to be a clear customer experience in par with best in the industry here. When it comes to ex Java, there are very complementary pockets, which will again put us on the forefront. And it will help us serve more and more customer, so this is one great benefit, when we see, of getting us together. So this is something which really works in our favor and that was one of the reason why we are getting into it.

Great. Thank you very much. We got that question about the tower leases again, so we can skip that one. Could you please provide more color on the valuation, especially on the buyout offer, Aziz?

So I guess what you mean on the buyout offer is the equalization payment of $387 million. This equalization payment -- so between the moment when we started the transaction and today, the share price has dramatically changed. The fair -- we believe the fair way to review this transaction is to look at the [ IFA ] valuation. The [ IFA ] valuation refers to IDR 5,247 price, per share price, so if you look at the equalization payment, we're actually getting a premium to that price of close to, if I'm not mistaken, I think, 23% premium from our partners. This premium, we think, is a fair premium because we are not selling full control. We are actually coming in as joint control partners, so we actually believe that, that premium reflects the right type of price to acquire joint control from our partners. Also what we have to remember is that Indosat shareholders are going to retain the 100% of the dividend proceeds from the disposal of the towers we've achieved earlier this year. So that's, [ let's say ], a one-off dividend which will only flow to current existing Indosat shareholders.

Great. Thank you. [ Liliana ] would like to know, "What are you going to do with Indosat's data centers?" Are they going to be sold prior to the closing of the merger, Vikram?

Look. This is -- look. When we -- there are 2 part we all need to understand. And these have been the mandate coming from Aziz himself directly, on one side, that we continue our momentum. We keep working on it. And there are other set of people who are working on integration plan process. So data center, I can share with you that we are in a very good place. We started this process to support our digital transformation journey and we are seeing great interest on that. And as per our existing plan, we want to close that whole process before end of this year, but we have been seeing great interest on that. And that will also support us because it has linkages to a lot of our digital transformation plan, bigger plan; and we have progressed well on that.

Great. Thank you. I see a question here from Ziad Itani from Arqaam. Will you distribute dividends from the tower sale, $750 million, before selling the 17% to Hutch, Aziz?

So as mentioned in the agreement, the dividend is ring-fenced from this transaction. That means only existing shareholders, which is us, the -- and the minority shareholders of Indosat, will receive the dividends from the sale of the towers earlier this year. And we anticipate, anyway, for that payout to happen before the closure of the merger in December.

Great. Thank you very much. And there is a follow-up question from him. "What is the expected use of the $387 million cash inflow that you are expecting from the stake sale?"

So these -- the $387 million are flown back to the group, repatriated to the group. Of course, the actual use will be subject to the Board approval. And when we have planned for deploying and redeploying this capital, we will come back to the Board and then, of course, inform the analyst community of our use.

[ Okay ]. Then going back to the Q&A questions here. [ Sajid from ING Bank ] in Singapore is asking about the strategic decision-making of the [ governance ] in the MergeCo. "Do both shareholders jointly sign off on any strategic decisions? Are there any veto rights? And do both companies have a similar strategic vision to grow the business?"

We've spent, again, 9 months negotiating this merger. And very quickly, we realized actually the best model was a joint control model, for many reason. One, it leverages the strengths of both the partners. You look at CK Hutchison. They have operation ranging from Europe all the way to Australia. You look at Ooredoo. We have 10 operations around the world going from Middle East to North Africa and to Asia as well. We believe that leveraging both strengths -- and also, from an operational standpoint, when we looked at both businesses, we tried to retain -- and you've seen the different nomination, Vikram as the CEO, CFO from Hutch. We tried to retain the best of both entities. We are very confident, especially after 9 months of negotiating and working with Hutch, that we're fully aligned on the vision. Actually we believe that having a joint control where we both own 50%, 50% of the business further aligns our interests together and also aligns our interests with minority shareholders' to deliver the synergies. So we actually strongly believe that this is the best model to deliver today the potential value we see in this merger.

Great. A question for Vikram here with regards to the time line for implementing the cost efficiencies and other synergies: What's a realistic time line here, Vikram?

I think it was highlighted, the range, by Aziz in his opening slides, but we are looking at anywhere between 3 to 5 years. But I also want to highlight that the mandate is to make sure that we have the right balance between ensuring customer experience and at the same time driving synergy. So this is one clear mandate, came from both our shareholder. And we have worked on all those plan accordingly.

We got the question on market share already, but are you aiming to improve price discipline in the industry? Vikram again.

Look. We have seen globally, whenever these kind of merger happen, it leads to more sustainable price. I think I want to remind all of us again, post COVID, the role of telecom sector has -- becoming very important. Now the focus is on experience, giving the right support to SME, growing the economy. So I think these are all steps in the right direction. And again I'll repeat, if some of our analyst friend have been analyzing the omnibus law and all, government is also very supportive. And moreover, our customer -- if you look at our journey of 10 quarter, one of the thing which we realized, that it is not about selling cheap product. It is about giving transparent, simple value delivery to our customer. So we will keep building on that philosophy. That is working very well for us and we see the same value principle on taking this forward. So I think this is all, again, I'm repeating. This is extremely good for the country. When you look at the role which telecom sector has to play, this step is very, very good for Indonesia telecom sector.

Great. Then we go a anonymous question. It could be from somebody from the tower company because he wants to know how are you going to negotiate potential lease cancellations.

I think, Andreas, as I highlighted, we are in a good place. And again when we look at our partner side versus us, again, it is very complementary. And these are all things which have put us in a very good place.

Then there is a question here about the Indosat balance sheet. And it holds currently IDR 10 trillion to IDR 11 trillion in cash. What are your plans for this relatively large cash holding?

Sorry. Look. Indosat has, as I mentioned before, always self-funded its CapEx. And as Vikram has also mentioned, Indonesia, just by the nature of its geography and the size of the country and the population that has to be covered, is usually one of the markets with the highest CapEx intensity. So the cash held on the balance sheet of Indosat is used to fund its operation. That is, of course, except for dividends which are approved by the Board and that flow back to shareholders.

Okay, there was a question about the net debt level of Hutch, but that's not in public domain, so we can't disclose that. There is another question here about the conditions of the satisfaction of the waiver and certain legal and regulatory conditions. Could you provide some more color on that, Aziz?

So first of all, we're very thankful to the Indonesian government. They have been very supportive. And the recent policies they've introduced is what is facilitating this transaction. We have worked very closely with our advisers on both sides, legal advisers, but also updating on a frequent basis as needed the different regulatory bodies in Indonesia. This is why we're very confident that this transaction should get all the regulatory approval required in a short period of time. We also believe and strongly believe that this consolidation brings a lot of value to Indonesia and the Indonesia government. By creating a much stronger #2 player, we're creating a much stronger partner for the government of Indonesia to help them transition in their digital economy, so we don't envisage any major hurdles through the regulatory process. At the same time, it's a process. It's very hard to estimate the time it takes. We do believe we can do it within -- between now and the closing of the year.

Okay, we're almost coming to an end, time-wise. Last question, for Vikram, on the branding. Indosat is known for a simple communication strategy and product offering. Is this going to prevail, or are you going to use a multi-brand strategy? What's the plan there?

Again a good question. I think many of our analyst friend would have seen that Indosat Ooredoo and also [ In 3 ] was -- in fact, Indosat Ooredoo has got into the top 10, as per the Brand Finance independent report. And I always keep repeating with our friends that Indosat is a very strong brand, but the good thing is, again, 3 also is very popular among youth. So we have started that process and we will study it very carefully, but what I can assure to our analysts is that -- the point which Aziz highlighted a few times. All these things, we looked at it. We were at a very strong momentum. And the reason why we felt we have to get into it: to take it to next level and to serve our customer and help government on their digital vision. And this is very important for the country.

Excellent. Thank you very much, Vikram and Aziz. We covered a lot of questions. Thank you all for participating today. We covered most of them, but if you still have any follow-up questions, please do e-mail myself or Christy in Indonesia, and we are happy to help. Thank you very much for the interest in Indosat Ooredoo and Ooredoo Group, and thank you very much for joining this call. This concludes the call. Thank you.