PT Vale Indonesia Tbk (INCO) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Okay. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to PT Vale First Quarter 2024 Earnings Call. My name is Glorinophika, PT Vale's Head of Investor Relations and will be the moderator for today's call. Please be advised that today's call is being recorded. [Operator Instructions] With me now, our new -- we have our Chief Operating Officer, Abu Ashar. And then we have our new Chief Financial Officer, Rizky Putra. And then also, we have Bernardus Irmanto, which now our Chief Sustainability and Corporate Officer in this meeting. Welcome to the other Board of Directors members and also the management of PT VI joining this call online. The conference call today will be started with a brief presentation by our COO, and then also by Bernardus Irmanto and then followed by the Q&A session. Without further ado, I will now hand the session to Pak Abu Ashar to begin today's presentation.

Thank you, Glori. Good afternoon [indiscernible], ladies and gentlemen. So -- thank you for joining this call. So let me start this presentation. So I think [indiscernible] by Glori. So as usual -- yes. So as usual, we have this one. This comprises -- as you know, that comprises with assumptions and also forward-looking statements. And this involved [indiscernible] and assumption. So please refer to this cautionary as already described. Okay. Next slide, Glori. Okay. So let me start with our 1 page is our [indiscernible]. Let's connect our purpose, our failures and the 5 key areas and also the first and the last is our ambition. If you look at the [indiscernible], I would like midterm offices which is also including until the end, mostly the light is more important. This [indiscernible] also guiding us in decision-making, looking forward our planning for the future, part of deadline for us in having the strategies -- as well for our planning for the future. This is always presented in every single meeting in our operations. The next slide is part of the -- our sector performance. We look at that, we completed mining strategy, mining safety management system, we call [indiscernible]. Safety management [indiscernible]. In the first quarter, we had -- actually, there was no lost time injury, but we have 3 recordable injuries. This way we end up at 0.39. But if you look at the last year's performance, it was very good at 0.31. Good performance for safety last year. And hopefully, for this year, also we can continue the good performance. We did have the recordable injury -- the prerecorded, 1.39. But hopefully, for this year, we can do better compared to the last year, good performance. In terms of first quarter activity, we have national K3, [indiscernible], the first quarter we have. For this year, [indiscernible], not only employees and the contractors but also the community, I'm talking about [indiscernible] about safety, the safety awareness and [indiscernible] also the common differently of the contract of the employees. As well for this year, we're also importing the [indiscernible] as a key speaker coming to site also, part of the event, to also supporting us continue of promoting our campaign to accomplished the safety awareness program in our company, yes. Okay, the next slide, Glori. This is showing our rehabilitation area. So talking about rehabilitation not only in our inside operations, in our concession but also outside of our contract of area. If you look at the statistic, rehabilitation is about close to 700 hectare reclamation outside of our contract area, which is importing also [indiscernible] region in South Sulawesi, and importing more than 280,000 trees maintenance, yes. But also one side of Sulawesi Island, if you look at the statistic [indiscernible] hectare [indiscernible] area in West Java and this consists of 3 regions in West Java and more than 46,000 trees planted in West Java. So in terms of rehabilitation, not only done in set of contract, we have an area [indiscernible], but also side even beyond contract area. Next slide. Okay. This is to show our results. If we compare to [indiscernible] area, a significant improvement is 346 metric ton limonite and also saprolite [indiscernible] increase [indiscernible]. So only to see here, like the resources we have in South Sulawesi, Central Sulawesi, also Southeast Sulawesi, with the total of [indiscernible] hectares still remaining our concession area. But we continue to increase our reserves, especially in topline -- you can see the number here, but of course, the saprolite [indiscernible] operation, but [indiscernible] continue not only to fit our operation for saprolite, but also for limonite as well. This is to sort of production trend from year to year. If you look at the production last year [indiscernible] which is a significant [indiscernible] production last year, so a trend up. But if we look at the comparison 2024 the first quarter compared to the same period for last year, significant in [indiscernible] [ 18,119 ] tonnes compared to 6,769 tonnes for the same period last year, yes. But compared to the previous quarter, [indiscernible], 10% lower compared to the first quarter -- the fourth quarter last year. This year, our production targeted 70.8 kiloton [indiscernible] is about slightly above the production target last year. And of course, we continue to improve our production from year to year despite that we have some major shutdown activity to make sure that the reliability of our operation, the equipment we have, the time line and also to continue having the continuous improvement to have production and grow from year to year. I think this is the last slide I have, Glori. Now I hand over to Pak Anto, please.

Yes. Thank you, Pak Abu. Before providing you with financial update, I think I need to highlight one specific point. So PT Vale has recognized a derivative asset rising from the participating right or call option in its investment in PT Kolaka Nickel Indonesia. So PT KNI is a joint venture between PT Vale and Huayou [ Import ]. For the first quarter 2024 financial statement, as of March 31, 2024, the company recorded a decline in the fair value of this derivative asset amounting to USD 12.88 million compared to its values as of December 31, 2023. This decline resulted in recognition of loss in fair values of the derivative asset. So why the fair value is decreasing, it is actually driven by nickel price forecast that is lower in first quarter 2024 compared to December 2023. So we are applying consistent approach, consistent reference as well to the nickel price, which we are using Bloomberg consensus analysts and then we apply consistently across the board. The fluctuation of the fair value valuation is primarily driven by, again, the nickel price assumption. Since the group has not previously recognized the derivative asset, meaning in first quarter 2023, we have recognized the derivative asset and also the corresponding gain on the recognition of the fair value in first quarter 2023, the company need to restate the financial statement, particularly for 2023. The restatement included in the derivative asset in the balance sheet and the corresponding gain on recognition of fair values of derivative asset in the interim consolidated statement of profit or loss and other comprehensive income. So if you see the table, the group achieved revenue around $229.9 million, reflecting 22% and [ 37% ] decline compared to the revenue in the previous quarter, quarter 4 2023 and the first quarter of 2023. The decrease was primarily due to lower average realized price, as you know, especially the IFRS realized price adjusted from $14,239 per ton in the fourth quarter to -- and also like in the first quarter 2023 number was much higher, $21,672 per ton in the first quarter. And the realized price in the first quarter 2024 is $12,651. So despite the fluctuation in the nickel price, the company could manage positive margin by controlling its cost of revenue. On the year-on-year basis, the company's cost of revenue fell by 8% from $228.2 million in the first quarter of 2023 to $209.8 million in first quarter 2024. So it was also 10% lower than the previous quarter. In the first quarter 2024, the company managed to book a cash cost of revenue at $9,370 per tonne, which is 15% lower compared to the same quarter last year. And overall, the EBITDA in the first quarter 2024 is lower by 47% and 70% compared to the fourth quarter 2023 and the first quarter 2023, again, this was primarily due to the lower nickel price. As for the CapEx, PT Vale disbursed approximately $57.4 million in the capital expenditures in the quarter, in the first quarter 2024. It's a 13% increase compared to the same period last year, which is $50.7 million due to the higher spending in sustaining and good project. However, compared to the previous quarter, which is quarter 4 2023, it was significantly lower. Again, this is about the timing. I think when we are progressing to the next quarter, moving towards the end of the year, the spending on the growth project will be picking up. So -- this chart is -- I think you believe -- I believe you're familiar with the chart. The chart provides a comparison between 2 critical metrics from the quarter-to-quarter. It's comparing the average realized nickel price and also unit cash cost of sales. So despite -- again, despite the decreasing trend of nickel price in the first quarter 2024, the average realized nickel price remain favorable, still favorable for us. We managed to maintain our unit cash cost below $10,000 per ton. Therefore, we still maintain a positive margin. In addition to that, we are also benefiting from lower commodity price. So energy cost in first quarter 2024 is actually lower. So we have to combine that with several productivity improvement, efficiency improvement in our company to further control the cost. So this table is also -- I think you're familiar with this table. This table shows the energy consumption and average price in the first quarter of 2024. Overall, the average price of all energy sources is lower compared to the previous quarter and the same quarter last year. So it's good for us, except for the HSFO, which average price per barrel in first quarter 2024 is like 10% higher compared to the first quarter 2023. However, if you look at the consumption in the first quarter, consumption of the HSFO is higher. It is actually to produce higher calcine to address several mining operation challenge in the first quarter? Next, the company cash and cash equivalents as of March 31, 2024 was $730.8 million. It is a 5% increase compared to $698.8 million as of December 31, 2023. Again, I think, as you know, we will be spending cash for our growth projects, Pomalaa and Bahadopi are progressing. So we will need to, exercise cash control to anticipate the higher spending in the subsequent quarter this year and also next year. Now, let me quickly provide you with an update on our development project. So in first quarter 2024, our growth project actually making good progress. In Morowali [indiscernible] project, we are advancing the construction of the essential infrastructure component for our mining operation. We have 34 of the -- 34% in physical progress so far. The project has employed around 1,500 workers, primarily working on the mining construction. Early construction work has also commenced in Pomalaa. This includes [indiscernible], quarry supplies, project office setup and the accommodation facility. As of now, the construction or the preparation of the construction of the feed preparation plan is also progressing. The physical -- overall principal process for the mining is 60% and total workforce employed is actually more than 1,000 as of March 31, 2024. In Sorowako project, we successfully completed the feasibility study. So the [indiscernible] for the mining project has been completed. Additionally, our partner is progressing with the permits and also for the land acquisition before the starting -- before starting the construction of the plant. With that, I will conclude my presentation, and I would now pass to -- the floor to the moderator to facilitate the Q&A. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Pak Abu and Pak Anto for the presentation. [Operator Instructions]. Okay. We have 1 question from [indiscernible]. It's in the chat box. The first question is regarding the valuation on the call options. Does it continue to register loss or gain depending on nickel price forecast every quarter going forward? And regarding right issue for MIND ID, is it third-party allocation capital increase -- is it third-party allocation capital increased to MIND ID? What would be the issued share price? That's the question from [indiscernible].

Thanks, [indiscernible], for the question. Regarding the valuation, yes, we have to do the derivative -- embedded derivative valuation from quarter-to-quarter. The basis of the valuation again because it's actually comparing the price of the shares that we will be exercising sometimes in the future when the [indiscernible] is completed versus the valuation, right, the fair value. So we have to do it quarter by quarter. So 2 things that actually impacting the valuation result. One is the nickel price, as you know. And I don't believe that nickel price from quarter-to-quarter will be significantly different. Although in certain circumstances, yes, like the nickel price can be jumping up the forecast if the analysts, the market actually sees some fundamental changes in the market. The second part is also the progress of the project itself, the certainty level. For example, in the previous quarter, we're still using like kind of low scenarios. And this quarter, we are using quite high scenarios because this quarter, we have seen some progress. We have seen capital injection from the partner and other technical component of the project, right? So -- and from quarter-to-quarter, we will be assessing whether the fair value is still the same or has actually higher or it is actually lower, depending on the valuation, that's actually done by third party, by consultant, then we will be booking loss or gain based on that. At the end of the day, when the [indiscernible] is completed, we will be doing some due diligence to determine whether we will be executing our participating right or not, right? So that's the explanation. Regarding right issue for MIND ID, is it third-party allocation capital increase to MIND ID? Basically, again, in this part of the PT Vale divestment obligation, as you know, I think previously, we mentioned about Vale and Sumitomo like -- agreed to divest or dilute themselves by 14%. And then the agreement within the parties that some of the divestment will be done through secondary sales and some of them will be done through right issuance, right? So the right issuance that happening just recently is actually is part of the PT Vale divestment. So Vale and Sumitomo, we're waiving their right. So they actually provide their right or grant their right to MIND ID. So MIND ID is exercising their right as 20% shareholding of the company, plus they actually exercise the right that Vale and also Sumitomo had as well. I think the issued price, it has been announced, it's the same, is IDR 3,050 per share.

Okay. So now the next question is from Martin [indiscernible]. Martin is from [indiscernible]. The question is regarding the cash cost outlook for year 2024 and production and sales volume as well? And then the second question is about how much is the CapEx spend on the 3 upcoming projects?

Yes. Thanks, Martin. So the first question is like about cash cost outlook. I think I do believe that we could maintain our cash cost for the whole year still below $10,000. Again, as we all know, majority or major component of our cash cost is on the energy cost. We see that the energy costs for the remaining of the year, which will be more or less the same. So in terms of controlling the cost to be $10,000, it is very feasible for us. That's what we are aiming for. And for the capital expenditure, for the 3 upcoming projects. I think we have discussed this in the previous earnings call. I think what we need to spend is more or less -- again, this is not only for 2024, but until the completion of the project, I think for the Bahadopi project, we'll be spending around $399 million including contingency for Pomalaa. Mining will be -- we'll be spending around $925 million for the mining construction. And again, I think -- for the HPAL, as we also discussed, we actually have call option. So we don't need to spend the cash until the HPAL is completed. So in terms of cash flow, it will only be coming in probably after 2026, 2027 time line. We need to decide the sweet spot as to when we have to exercise the call option. Like drastically, probably we need to wait until the 100% [indiscernible] capacity is achieved so that when we buy, actually the HPAL is able to produce at an ample capacity. We need also to see the price forecast and other variables, which will determine the economics of the project. And we still have some application as well for Bahadopi. I think in the last earnings call, we also informed you that we are trying to optimize the project for the Bahadopi. So hopefully, we can come back with optimized scenarios for the projects so that the economics of the project, the sustainability of the project can really be improved.

Okay. The third question is coming from Benyamin Mikael from [indiscernible]. The question is about, could you please remind us about the current reserve data? Does it include only Sorowako mine or including Pomalaa and Bahodopi? If not, when can we expect additional reserve data for Pomalaa and Bahodopi? Pak Anto would you like to answer? Or Pak Abu regarding the reserve?

Yes. Let me to answer. Thank you Benyamin, I'm talking about this [indiscernible], yes. If you look at our previous slide and talking about our [indiscernible] results. Now that's not only covering Sorowako block, but also including the Bahodopi block and also for Pomalaa block. If we compare data 2022 and the latest data that we have by the December last year, 2023 is a good 16% increase from the [indiscernible]. So the data, yes, for sure. This is including Pomalaa and Bahodopi blocks, our restructuring. Thank you.

Thank you, Pak Abu. I think that's answered a question from Benyamin.

Probably just to add there. I think for saprolite, yes, we have considered the reserve from Pomalaa, Bahodopi block 2 and 3 and also Sorowako operation. But for Limonite, we include only Pomalaa, right? And at the same time, just to inform you all, that we are doing, I would say, extension of Bahodopi mine fill to possibly increase the limonite [indiscernible]. So that's a potential increase as well. And we informed you in the previous call as well that we are doing quite massive exploration in Sorowako [indiscernible] area. So it has not been actually included in this data. So if your question is whether there's additional reshare potentially be added to our deposit? Yes, because we're still doing some exploration. There will be potential additional of limonite reserve from Bahodopi. There will be -- but again, at this time is not going to be soon, but yes, there's a potential addition to our deposit.

Okay. Thank you for the additional explanation Pak Anto. We have a following question from [indiscernible]. This is related to the right issue, Pak Anto. So has the right issue and investment from major shareholders are completed?

Yes. So basically, for the secondary that I mentioned before, is completed. The right issue exercised by MIND ID is completed. So right now, what's happening between today and tomorrow is basically, we say because we need to check with our administrator. I mean and also with the [ IDX ] about all of the transaction. But from the divestment point of view, it's already concluded. So as I mentioned, MIND ID has exercised the secondary, so the money has been transferred from MIND ID to Vale and Sumitomo. MIND ID has exercised the right issuance, right, both that MIND ID has a 20% shareholders plus the right that actually transferred by Vale and Sumitomo to MIND ID and the money has been received by PT Vale for that.

Okay. I think that answered the question from [indiscernible] related to the right issue. We have more questions from [indiscernible]. First, what is the key reason for higher coal consumption in the first quarter 2024? And then second question, you already mentioned that the HSFO was higher due to producing higher quality of [indiscernible] because of the characteristics of the mine or in the first quarter. Should we expect that the HSFO consumption in the next quarter will be as high as in the first quarter? And then the third question is -- here, you mentioned about the ore grade in the first quarter was declining. Can you share what was the ore grade? And what is the outlook for the next quarter?

Yes. So I will probably later on ask Pak Abu to add as well on the ore grade, but I can answer probably on the coal consumption on the HSFO consumption. So basically, it is related to the stockpile level that we have in mining. So our stockpile has dropped since last year. And because the stockpile is dropping, the consequences is that the retention time is becoming shorter, meaning what? Meaning that the ore that we bring to the dryer, the moisture level is still high. In order to drive the same amount of ore, meaning because you still have higher moisture, then we need to have higher energy, right? So we need to burn more coal. But at the same time, burning coal will not solve the issue because the ashes from the coal will cause problem to the drying system, right? So that's why we also need to compensate that with fuel. However, the [indiscernible] operational team actually recognized the issue already, they have defined action plan to mitigate that. So as for now, for example, the stockpile level has been increasing. In quarter 2, there will be -- there are shutdown, which helped the stockpile level. And when stockpile level is coming back to the normal level, then the retention time is becoming longer, the moisture level of the ore that will be fat into the dryer will be decreasing as well. So I personally don't expect that this issue will be continuing, right, for the remaining of the year. So the team has recognized the issue. They are working very hard, and they're focusing on addressing better 2 things: increasing stockpile to improve as well the retention time, but at the same time also improving the ore grid from mining. So I'll stop there, and Pak Abu, please add...

Yes, let me do a little bit Pak Anto, yes. So this is actually aligning with our strategy for the first quarter given for the first semester at lowering the metal grade to be able to increase the volume and the inventory from mining was expect to pay the processing plant. So we're expecting actually for the second semester to have a better grade and also increase the following stockpile to be able to have more flexibility to achieve the production this year. So this is part of the strategy. Actually, we are lowering the nickel grade, but we expect -- for the first quarter, 1.72%, 1.75% the nickel grade, but for later is above 1.75% the nickel grade in the second semester, part of the strategy, yes.

Okay. Thank you, Pak Anto and Pak Abu for the explanation. We have more questions here from [indiscernible]. The question is if we have to estimate the nickel ore resource, any ratio we can use from the reserve amount? If Bahodopi has limonite, can it be used to build HPAL or will just as it -- and then is Pomalaa HPAL can reduce its Chinese exposure to pass U.S. IRR?

Yes. Thanks, Marisa. for Bahodopi, we actually, as I mentioned, right, we have to conduct additional study to understand the limonite. So the ratio is depending on the focuses, right? So on the mine feasibility study, whether we want to optimize the limonite, whether we want to optimize the saprolite; the amount of limonite, saprolite that can be produced from the same mining depending on the focuses can be different, right? So for example, for Bahodopi, I believe, for example, the ore that will be -- that will be coming out from Bahodopi can justify one as well. The volume of the limonite still need to wait until the study to be finished, right? So -- and it's planned to be finished probably by the end of this year. So whether we want to sell, whether we want to build our own HPAL, there's something that we need to assess as well as part of optimizing the value of our resources. Again, I think it's related as well with what I mentioned of optimizing the Bahodopi project scenarios. The option that we will be pushing through should be addressing. One is the economics of the project in a longer time, sustainability of the project must be optimizing the value of our resources, meaning the saprolite, limonite or that we have in Bahodopi. So all of those will be considered when we are making a decision, right? So that's 1 thing. Second thing is Pomalaa HPAL can reduce? Yes, the short answer is yes. I think in the agreement that we had with the partners and also Huayou. There's 1 clause which mentioned that all parties will be sitting down in good faith to address specific requirement of [indiscernible] actually requires that to be happening, right? So I think that there has been some discussion. Our Chinese partner is actually willing to talk about that one. And as we know it, IRR compliant is not only about the shareholding. There are a couple of other things that need to be considered. But particularly on the shareholding, yes, our Chinese partner will be willing to sit down and talk about that one.

Okay. Thank you Pak Anto for the explanation. So we still have around 15 minutes. If there is any more question from the participant here, you may raise your hand or write your question in the chat box. Okay. This is a following question from [indiscernible]. So the question is, when do you expect the stockpile level could be normalizing? And could you share the latest, sorry, HSFO and coal consumption as of end of June 2024? Has it been improved?

Yes, I think on the consumption, yes, I think we -- again, within a month, we will have our quarter 2 earnings call. So we could wait until then. But again, as I mentioned, the work to address the operational issues is progressing. I believe there will be some improvement. But I think, Pak Abu, you can answer on the first equation about when are we expecting that the stockpile level could be at the targeted level?

Thank you, Pak Anto. Basically, the target by December this year to achieve minimum 4.3 weeks' of stock level. But as of this month, by end of June, yes, we achieved 3.5 weeks. So this is significant improvement in terms of the inventory. Actually, we expected by July 1st to achieve 2.5, but we've achieved 3.5 weeks by end of last month in June -- 30 June. So by having this one in improved inventory was level means there is relation with the consumption of the fuel, the retention time enough of feeding to the processing plant. And so that's part of improvement as well to improve -- we have flexibility to improve the grade, yes.

Okay, thank you Pak Anto and Pak Abu for the answer. Okay. Any more question from the floor?

There's 1 question, [Marisa ].

Okay, from Marisa. With more new mining, would we expect higher ore grades so that we can expect higher production volume for year 2025? And any guidance for the production costs and cash costs as well in full year 2025? Can we expect it back to $8,000. Pak Anto, please?

Yes. Marisa, I think it's too early to talk about 2025. So we have to be focusing on 2024 first. But just to provide your idea, I think we'll be bringing ore from Bahodopi Block 1 as well as Sorowako, which will have higher grade. So definitely, there will be increasing the production. But the timing, we will try to bring it as soon as possible to Sorowako. So basically, there will be additional or from different blocks, which has higher grade from Bahodopi Block 1, that's one thing. Second thing is I think with higher production, the likelihood to actually to have lower cash cost is high, unit cash cost is high. But this is pretty much depending on the commodity costs as well. So as mentioned, the energy cost is contributing significantly to the overall unit cash cost. So if, for example, if we can hit by the end of this year, only $9,000, it is very possible for us to go lower in the following years. But let's see the fluctuation of the commodity price, particularly the fuel and also coal.

Okay. Thank you, Pak Anto. Okay. We still have 13 minutes. If there is any more question from the participant. [Operator Instructions] We have more question. This is from [ Theodore Finley ]. With The HPAL project still in development, would PT Vale consider selling limonite ore domestically in the meantime?

Yes. As I mentioned, the mining construction is still progressing, right? So we estimate that we will be concluding the mining construction approximately 6 months before the HPAL construction is completed. So we have time to build stockpile for the HPAL consumption. So with that time line, I don't think we will have time now for selling limonite because otherwise, we will not be ready to fit the HPAL with enough limonite. If, for example, like the HPAL is coming quite late and then we develop significant stockpile, then yes, I mean, there's a possibility to sell the limonite. What is more realistic is probably when we actually build Pomalaa, for example, the limonite will be for HPAL and saprolite is now uncommitted, yes, I mean, there will be scenarios where we're actually selling saprolite when the mining construction for Pomalaa is completed. While we're stockpiling limonite, we'll be selling saprolite. I think the same thing can happen as well in other block when we actually have committed or meaning having commitment with our GP or our partner to selling 1 type of ore when the mining construction is completed, then there's a possibility of us selling the other type, for example, as I mentioned for Pomalaa.

Okay. Thank you, Pak Anto. We have more questions from [indiscernible]. This is about our expectation on the earnings in the second quarter and second half. Actually, we're going to have our earnings call soon.

Yes, so [indiscernible] be patient. So within 1 month, we will talk about that one.

Yes. For everyone in here, just for information, we're going to have -- we plan to have our earnings call for the second quarter 2024 in a couple of weeks, in 4 weeks actually by the end of this month. So we're going to invite you and we can discuss about the result of the second quarter. Okay. Any more questions from the floor here? We still have 10 minutes. If there is no further question from the participants here, so we will close the question session. Okay. Let me check again. Okay. We will share you the presentation materials. So thank you to all participants. As there is no further question. So I would like to return to Pak Abu for the closing remarks. Pak Abu?

Yes. So thank you, ladies and gentlemen. I think this is a good time to have this call and also appreciate it for you joining this call this afternoon. And as you know, that we continue having challenges, but continue also growing our agenda for Pomalaa, Bahodopi and Sorowako projects. But for sure, we need to optimize our Sorowako operation and the [indiscernible] for our future growth projects as well. Again, thank you very much for your questions and feedback for this afternoon. This is part of our process to continue to grow and improve our operation as well for our company to grow. Yes.

Okay. Thank you, Pak Abu, for the closing remarks. Actually, before we close this session, this earnings call, so I would like to give the floor to Pak Rizky, to introduce. This is welcoming first day with the first earnings call.

Yes. Okay. Thanks, Glori. Okay. Hi, everyone. Good to be here. I think it's a very good time. It's an exciting time for PT VI. I couldn't wait to meet all of you to have further discussion going forward to get inputs and to get meaningful discussion on other topics that matters to you guys and also to us in general. So yes, I think it's a good time for us right now. I'm very confident, and hopefully, we can meet up soon.

Thank you, Pak Rizky. So for the analysts here, especially if you are in Jakarta, please be patient. So we will have session to meet with Pak Rizky, our new CFO. Okay, everyone. So once again, thank you for joining our -- today's earnings call. Thank you for your attendance and participation. You may now disconnect.