PTC India Limited (PTC) Q3 FY2026 Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the earnings conference call for Q3 and 9 months FY '26 for PTC India Limited. PTC India was incorporated in 1999 to undertake trading of power to achieve economic efficiency and security of supply and to develop a vibrant power market in the country. PTC is a pioneer in starting a power market in India and undertakes trading activities that include long-term trading of power generated from large power projects as well as short-term trading arising as a result of supply and demand mismatches. In addition to the trading business, PTC has incubated techno-commercial consulting business to develop power market for the C&I consumers, SEZs, port trust, et cetera. Let us now begin with the introduction of the management team. We have with us today Dr. Manoj Kumar Jhawar, Chairman and Managing Director; Mr. Rajiv Malhotra, Executive Director and Chief Risk Officer; Mr. Pankaj Goel, Executive Director and CFO; Mr. Bikram Singh, Executive Director, Marketing; Mr. H.L. Choudhary, EVP, Commercial and Operations; Mr. Mukesh Ahuja, VP, Finance; Mr. Rajiv Maheshwari, Company Secretary; and Mr. Anand Kumar, VP, Investor Relations. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I would now like to request Dr. Manoj Kumar Jhawar, CMD, to give his opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you. Good evening, everyone. I extend a warm welcome to all of you to our post earnings call following the announcement of our quarter 3 financial year '25-'26 results. I am addressing this conference from Goa, but my management team is in Delhi, and I'm joined by them virtually. So the entire PTC management team is there and has already been introduced by the moderator. This call gives us an opportunity to share insights into the company's performance and our long-term vision. We deeply value this engagement with our esteemed shareholders, our investors, partners, shareholders and their representatives. Excuse me, just a moment. During the 9 months of current financial year '25-'26, our national demand of energy grew by less than 1%, but our trading volumes grew by 9% to 63.74 billion units. The average trading margin for the 9-month period is 3.38 paisa per unit. Notably, 60% of the trading volume came from exchange-traded products with the remainder coming from bilateral, long-term and medium-term trades. Improved volume and margin realization has increased the trading income to INR 234.29 crores, a 9% increase in trading income over the corresponding period for the previous financial year. In the cross-border markets, our operations continue across all three grid-connected neighboring countries, Bhutan, Nepal, and Bangladesh. Energy flows to Bangladesh remain stable under the agreed contractual framework with regular flow of payments to our accounts. Due to increased domestic demand in winter in Bhutan, cross-border power import from Bhutan has been scheduled somewhat lesser than the previous year's levels. We expect this to settle at a long-term average level as the contract is for surplus power after domestic demand of Bhutan, which is currently rising, is met. However, the power from India to Nepal and Bhutan to meet their winter demand is increasing and flowing as per the executed contracts. On coupling of exchanges, recently, APTEL has passed an order directing CERC to follow the regulatory process and frame regulations before implementing the coupling of the exchanges. We believe that this coupling will be beneficial to our associate company, which is Hindustan Power Exchange. Looking ahead, we expect power demand to remain firm, although short-term volatility may be high due to [ turgid ] weather conditions. On the regulatory and policy front, the Draft National Electricity Policy has been announced and it proposes deepening of power markets, regulatory frameworks for distributed energy aggregation, and leveraging India's energy stake for digital integration of market-based transactions. However, CERC is proposing to formally classify integrated energy storage systems as a regulated asset with defined technical terms. This is also expected to give clarity to investors and consequently scale up its implementation. So thank you once again for your continued trust and support. We appreciate your participation in today's call. Now I would invite our CFO to give a glimpse of the financial numbers. Thank you.

Yes. Thank you, CMD sir. Good evening to all the shareholders. Now I go through the financial results for the quarter and 9 months ended December '25. First, I'll go through the stand-alone results for the quarter. During the quarter, the volume has increased by 4% to 20 billion units from 19.2 billion units. The volume has mainly increased due to our exchange trade. The total operational income has decreased by 14% to INR 89 crores from INR 103 crores. So this decrease mainly is on account of a decrease in our net rebate income. The rebate income has decreased basically due to the improved liquidity of the states. The profit before tax has decreased by 25% to INR 111 crores from INR 148 crores. Profit before tax has decreased mainly due to a decrease in our net rebate and surcharge income. Profit after tax has decreased by 25% to INR 83 crores from INR 111 crores. In line with the PBT, PAT has also decreased by 25%. Total comprehensive income has decreased by 25% to INR 83 crores from INR 111 crores. Earnings per share for the quarter stood at INR 2.79 in comparison to INR 3.74 during the last quarter. Now I'll go through the 9 months results for December '25. So volume has increased by 9% to [ 16.2 ] billion units from 63.7 billion units. The volume has increased mainly due to our exchange and cross-border trades during the 9 months. The total operational income has decreased by 5% to INR 337 crores from INR 353 crores. Total operational income has decreased due to a decrease in net rebate income. Profit before tax has decreased by 3% to INR 433 crores from INR 448 crores. The main reason for the decrease is due to the decrease in net rebate income and surcharge income. Profit after tax has decreased by 4% to INR 321 crores from INR 333 crores. Total comprehensive income has decreased by 3% to INR 322 crores from INR 334 crores. Earnings per share for the 9-month period stood at INR 10.85 compared to INR 11.26. Now I'll go through the consolidated results for the quarter. The volume has increased by 4% to 20 billion units from 19.3 billion units. Profit before tax on a consolidated basis has decreased by 23% to INR 175 crores from INR 227 crores. So a decrease on account of, as I have already explained, there is a decrease in profit before tax on a stand-alone basis also and also due to the lower profit before tax of PTC Financial Services during the quarter. Profit after tax has decreased by 26% to INR 131 crores from INR 176 crores. Consolidated PAT has decreased by 28% to INR 131 crores from INR 181 crores. Total other comprehensive income has decreased by 26% to INR 133 crores from INR 181 crores. Earnings per share for the quarter stood at INR 3.85 in comparison to INR 5.32. Now I'll go through the consolidated results for the 9 months ended. The volume has increased by 8% to 69.2 billion units from 64.2 billion units. Profit before tax from continuing operation has increased by 17% to INR 762 crores from INR 649 crores. Consolidated profit for the 9 months has increased mainly on account of an increase in the profit before tax of PTC Financial Services and the profit has increased due to basically reversal of impairment provisions, which were created in earlier years. Profit after tax from continuing operations has increased by 22% to INR 596 crores from INR 490 crores. Consolidated PAT from continuing operation and discontinued operation has decreased by 1% to INR 596 crores from INR 604 crores. Total other comprehensive income has decreased by 1% to INR 598 crores from INR 604 crores. Earnings per share for the 9 months stood at INR 16.9 in comparison to INR 18.54 during the last 9-month period.

[Operator Instructions] Take the first question from Dr. Naresh Matai from Smt MMK College. Since there is no response, we'll move on to the next question from [ Chanamallu Halagodi ], an individual investor.

In previous con call regarding divestment or dilution of PFS, you said you are awaiting the report from a private -- reputed consultancy on private equity, and we will discuss the same report in the Board, then what is the outcome of the report and what is the outcome of the Board discussion, sir?

Assignment has been given to SBI CAPS. We are awaiting their final report, and we shall be discussing the report once it is made available to us. Many rounds of discussions have happened with the consultants. But before I discuss this with the Board, I cannot share more on this.

One more question from my side, sir. PFS is not able to raise fresh funds and not able to increase AUM size and the parent company also stopped financial support to PFS to increase AUM and delaying the dilution process also. You are just wasting time of investors of PFS and PTC India take early action regarding divestment of PFS for the benefit of the investors of both PFS and PTC India, sir.

I will look at it this way. Kindly understand the capital adequacy ratio of PFS is already very high, very comfortable. Almost INR 3,000 crores of the net worth is lying in that company. So basically, they do not need further equity infusion from the parent. So that said, it is not as if that we are not supporting them. It is for that company to raise further debt financing, complementing their existing equity structure. That is number one. Number two, even if a divestment has to be done, it cannot be done in a haste. Otherwise, we will be losing the investor value. So a process has to be followed and different options have to be evaluated. So rest assured, we are also mindful. It is not as if that we are not aware of the timing or the sales of the timing, but we are working on it.

Next question is from Vipul Kumar Shah from Sumangal Investments.

So my question -- first question relates to this lower surcharge and lower rebate due to improved DISCOM financial situation. So is this a new normal that in all subsequent quarters and years, we'll see lower surcharge and lower rebate income, sir?

Sir, it is difficult to predict, but let us understand the overall scenario in which the power sector has been operating. For the past 1 year, weather has been generally very, very benign and the power purchase costs on the exchanges have been very down and subdued. So what it led to was a significant reduction in the power procurement cost for the DISCOMs. And because of that, they temporarily have better liquidity if you compare it with the prior periods. Now going forward, if weather was again not to be as benign and the demand increases and commensurate with the demand, their power procurement cost per unit terms also increases, the situation may change again. So these things and many ups and downs like this we have seen over the years, and we expect it to continue.

And my second question relates to our short-term margin and long-term margin, which generally is always part of the presentation, but this time, those figures have not been shared. So can you share the short-term and long-term margin for this quarter and comparable same last year?

Yes. So the short-term margin for this quarter was -- including the exchange trade is 0.87 paisa per unit. And in the last quarter, the short-term trade margin was 0.75 paisa per unit. And the long-term margin during this quarter is 7.9 paisa per unit as against 7.7 paisa per unit during the last quarter.

Last quarter or last year?

Last quarter. Sorry, last December '24, corresponding quarter.

[Operator Instructions] Next question is from Mangesh Kulkarni from Almondz Financial Services.

Sir, I would like to ask broadly about the decision taken earlier about the NTPC becoming the promoter and how the transaction is going to happen, like all the remaining three shareholders, they will be divesting -- their shareholding will be bought by the NTPC and then whether it will be open offer for public also? What kind of transaction is thought about? And what happens to the NTPC's trading company, which is already -- just like PTC, NTPC is also the second largest trading company in the trading space. So broadly, how that transaction is going to happen?

First thing is regarding this NTPC. So as we have already shared with the stock exchanges and general public at large, currently, the understanding is only this that the three promoters would relinquish their promoter rights. That means the representatives shall not be sitting on the Board and those companies, that is PFC Power Grid and NHPC would not be having a promoter stake. Regarding their own equity, as of now, we are not aware if any understanding has been reached between the NTPC and other promoters. Over the time, if there is any information on that front to be shared and if we come to know about it, we shall be sharing it with the general public. That is one thing. Second thing...

Yes, you just continue, then I'll ask.

Second thing was regarding the NTPC Vidyut Vyapar. So of course, the NTPC is already having a trader -- power trading company full-fledged under their belt. So how and what shall come out of this transaction once NTPC becomes sole promoter of the PTC. These things, it is a little early to say for me. But I think in coming days, all those things will become clear. As of now, yesterday, we have already shared with the stock exchanges that other three promoters, the Board has -- PTC Board has approved the proposal of three promoters to withdraw themselves as being promoter of this company.

Anything has not discussed on this front from the management of the PTC?

Management of PTC?

Management of the PTC, the road ahead is not discussed with the management of the PTC.

I think these things do take time. These things do take time. Discussion is not a onetime affair. Things evolve continuously. Options are evaluated continuously. So as and when we are in know of more to share -- we have anything more to share on this front, we shall be sharing.

And sir, on HPX, can you explain the financials performance of this quarter?

Yes. Pankaj, please?

Yes, yes. So the total income of the [ IEX ] during this quarter was INR 8.64 crores as against INR 8.22 crores in the corresponding quarter. For the 9 months ending in this quarter, their total income was INR 36.4 crores as against INR 30.27 crores during the corresponding 9 months. And the profit after tax, actually in this period -- in this quarter, they have a loss of INR 2.46 crores as against the profit of INR 1.28 crore in the corresponding quarter. And for the 9-month period -- during the current 9-month period, they were having a profit of -- PAT of INR 4.42 crores as against a profit of INR 8.38 crores corresponding 9 months.

So what was the reason for loss this quarter?

Yes. For this, basically, the expense on technology and some manpower expense was the main reason for this loss in this particular quarter. But with the market coupling and all, the scenario is looking positive for HPX.

Yes, that means technology investment is good for the long-term benefit that is positive.

Next question is from Abhir Pandit from Old Bridge Mutual Fund.

Sir, so with respect to the latest developments on market coupling, specifically the APTEL judgment, I just wanted to know your thoughts on the actual implementation on market coupling and our investment in HPX. So how will it affect HPX? I mean, I understand the growth potential is expected there. But do you see that market coupling being executed in the short term, let's say, in the 6-month period?

First, there have to be a regulation is amply clarified by the APTEL order. So first, regulation has to -- CERC has to come out with the regulation. Meanwhile, in parallel, technological preparations can go on to some extent, and they have been going on, just as Bikram has clarified that we are not lagging behind in terms of investment in the IT platforms. So once regulations making process is completed, then I think it should not take long.

Sir, is there any time frame for this normally?

Really, we cannot predict as to, I mean, how fast and how slow CERC can come out with the regulation on this subject. That is not our domain.

Okay. No worry, sir. Sir, also, just was looking at your balance sheet, sir, we have a good amount of investments and cash balances available. So are there any newer areas which we are specifically looking at for investments in order to deploy those investments?

So that is one. If you look at our cash balances, it comprises of two components. One is the working capital, which is meant to support our core trading business. And currently, we are -- it may look as if we are having a very high level of cash on our balance sheet because the cash is not currently deployed in the working capital cycle. Currently, we are sitting in a situation that there are no significant outstandings against any of our major principal trading partners. And because of that, that working capital cycle is so squeezed that we are almost -- if I'm right, we are not having more than 4 days of average outstanding against anyone. So on one hand, it is a very good operational performance. But on the other hand, it affects our rebate and surcharge incomes. But having said that, to support our trading business, I think at least INR 2,000 crores war chest is required to remain competitive in this business. And that has always been the case. So other than that, this INR 1,100 crores or so, which we had received from sale of PEL stake, that fund is available for equity investment or other kind of investments. The management is cognizant of that. We are working on many fronts. If you have been following our company, you would know that we have recently, I mean, signed MOUs with Neyveli Lignite Corporation. We have signed MOU with SECI. We have signed MOU with other -- some of other PSUs also. So basically, all these MOUs are meant to explore what could be the possible synergy and what could be possible avenues for further investments. When we have anything concrete to share, we shall be sharing.

Okay. Sir, so basically, you are suggesting that INR 2,000 crores is a war chest that you have and a certain amount of working capital requirement will necessarily have the cash balances to be at a particular level continuously, right? What would that level be, sir?

INR 2,000 crores, I would think that would be required to support the trading business, particularly if the prices for the electricity in per unit terms firm up, then for trading the same amount of electricity, basically, you need more working capital. So that thing is a little bit cyclical in nature, but INR 2,000 crores, I think, would be required to support the trading business. Over and above the cash can be deployed for securing further sources of revenue. That is pure investment.

Next question is from Rajiv Agrawal from Sterling Capital. Since there is no response, we'll move on to the next question from Suyash Bhave from Wealth Guardian.

Yes, sir, regarding that MOU with SECI, can you throw some light on what is its scope? What kind of business are we looking to do there? And...

Suyash, your volume is very low. Can you speak a bit louder, please?

Sir, regarding that MOU with SECI, can you throw some light on what is its scope? What kind of business are we looking to...

Currently, SECI is doing the REIA business only, but now they want to be in the merchant side of the power business also. So for the merchant side of the power business they see a lot of synergy with the organization like PTC. So that MOU with SECI basically aims and intends to mutually beneficial opportunities on the merchant side of the renewable energy business. They are good at contracting, we are good at selling. So there is a synergy.

So will that -- so just to understand this better, will that help us in increase in our LT volumes, long-term volumes?

Actually, long-term traders are not permitted as of now, unless and until you are on REIA. And now that REIA thing is also, I mean, at the decline. So even the already designated REIAs are unable to sell the power. So what we see the evolving scenario in the power sector is like this that on the one hand, enabling the financial closure, there could be a long-term contract with the developer. And on the other hand, that power cannot be sold on a back-to-back basis as it is to any DISCOM. So that power slicing and dicing and some customization and mixing and matching and merging has to be done. So that is where a role of trader like us comes. So strictly speaking, to answer your question, no, this power on the back-to-back basis cannot be sold on a long-term basis. It has to be medium term. It has to be short term. It has to be exchange. It has to be mix and match and merge of anything. So that is what our specialty is. That is what we do all the time.

Next question is from O.P. Gandhi from Siddhi Technologies.

Yes. So my first question is what is the outstanding amount from the Government of Bangladesh? And with the new government in place, so what is the likely business with the Bangladesh government? And my second question is about how is the volume growing in the month of January, February, and March this year in comparison to last year?

Outstanding, Pankaj can share. Regarding the further business opportunities, I can say that currently, number one, there is a congestion in the transmission corridor. So there is, I think, very little feasibility of supplying more power to Bangladesh. There is -- of course, there is absolutely no possibility of importing power from Bangladesh because they are already a power deficit country. Regarding the outstandings, I would request Pankaj to clarify.

Yes. So basically, Bangladesh is presently taking rebate. So they are making payment early. So the only one bill is outstanding around INR 72 crores is only outstanding from Bangladesh.

If you want to put that in perspective, at one point in time, this outstanding was to the tune of INR 800 crores or so.

Yes, yes, yes.

We'll take one text question from Darshika Khemka from AV Fincorp. The question is, please help with the volume breakdown for the quarter? And what is the outlook on the performance for the next quarter?

Pankaj, please?

Yes. So as far as the quarter volume breakdown is concerned, we have traded in short-term bilateral trade 1.4 BU. In exchange, we have traded around 12 BU. And in medium term, it's 730 million units. In cross-border trade, it's around 584 million units. In long-term trade, we have traded around 48 million units. In Bangladesh, it's around 411 million units. So that is for the quarter breakup.

We'll take our next question from an Yash Surpuriya, individual investor.

I would just like you to share some light on the long-term PPAs. Are we allowed to sign long-term PPAs or we aren't allowed? And what will be the general tenure sir for them?

As for the standard bidding guidelines for the procurement of long-term power, which is the conventional power, tenders are not permitted. So for the long-term conventional power, no tender or no further new contracts can happen. For the renewable power, there is a construct of REIA, that is Renewable Energy Implementation Agency. So if renewable energy implementation agency is inviting the tender, then only they can charge a trading margin. Others are not permitted to charge any trading volume or enter into long-term contracts even for renewable powers.

Sir, there won't be any long-term contracts for us in conventional.

Market is really moving away, except in let us say, hydel projects, which actually are very long gestation projects. I think the market is now moving away. Market is likely to be dominated by medium-term contracts and complementarity when people realize that it is not in their own financial interest to have 25 years contract with full commitment for fixed cost over that period of time. People are now realizing the benefit of flexibility. And I think the market is migrating towards that situation in which there would be many midterm contracts. And even on the context of the nature which are not currently happening that let us say supply power to me for 6 months for the next 25 years, things like that. So I think the market structure is evolving.

Next question is from Vipul Kumar Shah from Sumangal Investments.

So what is the cash on balance sheet as on 31st December?

Yes, just a minute. So as on 31st December, it was around INR 3,292 crores.

Okay. And sir, most of our short-term volume is through exchanges. So my question is, why should a buyer, whether it is a DISCOM or an enterprise or [ C&I ] company should route it through us. What is the advantage for them to pay whatever little spread that we are having?

Previously also in many meetings, I have clarified. Basically, a trader serves three purposes in the power market. Number one, not every buyer would want to, I mean, create a control room kind of thing in which he is manning that control center 24/7 with skilled people who can put the bid directly into the exchange. Of course, politically, it is doable, but they prefer services of some trader who can do it on their behalf. We run a 24/7 control room specifically for this purpose. So that is the trade services that is number one. Number two is trade financing. Trade financing means someone may be temporarily short of liquidity, but he may still need power. And tomorrow, at a later stage, he might be expecting some liquidity at that point of time, he may settle the accounts with the trader. So we provide and facilitate that trade financing also. So that is our second service. And third service is the market intelligence itself. We -- if a consumer is availing our services can really advise the consumer in a professional manner that what would be the best possible way of meeting his power needs in short term or medium term. So these are the three services which a trader can provide. These are valuable services.

Okay, sir. And last question. So over the next 5, 7 years, do you think that long-term market will totally go away and almost all volume will shift to short-term through exchanges?

You see actually, this question has to be addressed in two parts. Number one, unless and until there is a long-term contract for offtake of power from a project, the financial closure of projects won't happen. So at least one leg of the transaction for financial closure of the expected and upcoming power projects, there has to be a certain degree of assurance to the financiers that power will be taken up. So for developers, of course, they are always perpetually in the need for a financial closure and therefore, a long-term PPA. So I don't see that need going away. What I see is that the back-to-back basis that power cannot be directly sold to a DISCOM or any other consuming entity. The consuming entities on the other hand, want flexibility. So that means there is ample room for traders like us to be in this business that we can take calculated risk, and we can do the long-term contracting with the developers and then we slice, dice and mix and match and merge that power and tailor-made and custom-made the solutions for the clients at the DISCOM end. So of course, long-term trade is not going away, but less and less, it is likely that there would be an intermediary in between.

Next question is from Rajiv Agrawal from Sterling Capital.

Sir, how -- what is the business opportunity do you see from the market coupling whenever it is implemented? That is my first question. And my second question is, how do you calculate this operational income and trading margin, which you normally show in the presentation? How do we calculate this number from the financial results?

The business opportunity from the market coupling directly, it is not coming to the PTC because PTC in any case is simply a trader on the exchanges. And currently, since PTC owns more than 22% equity in the HPX, so it is an associated company, and therefore, we cannot take the trading membership on the HPX. So our trading portfolio is being serviced with the help of other two exchanges. So per se, directly, it is not affecting the PTC. But indirectly, since we own 22.5% of the HPX and if significant volume of power trading shall -- was to move away from leading and dominant exchange to all the three exchanges in an equitable manner, then it will definitely add value -- immense value to the HPX. And then being the controlling -- a leading shareholder of the HPX, that benefit will accrue to PTC. So that is the first part of your question. Second part, I would request Pankaj to respond to it.

Yes. So the -- as you are saying that the -- there are three parts of the total operational income, which we show in the results. First, there is a pure trading margin. That is between the gap between the sale and purchase price. Let's say, we purchase the power at INR 100 and we sell it for INR 100.4 this thing. So that's INR 0.4 is our margin. So that is how this trading margin is calculated. Then there is a second element of rebate then -- which we used to get that if we make an early payment to the generator. And likewise, our buyer also sometimes gives us the payment on time. So we calculate the rebate expenses and the net rebate income, then we calculate the net rebate income, the difference between the payable and the receivable. And then there is a third element of consultancy income. So taken these three parts, so we calculate the total operational income.

Next question is from Anjali Singh, retail investor.

My question is that out of the INR 3,200 crore cash that we have on books, what is the capital allocation plan that we have for the future?

Anjali ji, I think you have already answered that question. Out of INR 3,200 crores, which we are having on our balance sheet, INR 2,000 crores is required to meet the transient nature, working capital requirements of the core trading business. Today, we are sitting in a situation in which there are no significant outstanding against Bangladesh, Jammu and Kashmir or any other DISCOM utility per se. But these things are very, very transient. Tomorrow, that need may again come up. So if we are unable to do the trade financing, then we will not be able to effectively manage our trading operations. So almost INR 2,000 crores is what I would reasonably want to keep for the trading business. So that leaves me with the remaining capital of INR 1,200 crores. And for that, we are, I mean, exploring many options. CapEx is a serious business. And whatever we do, it has to bring long-term value to the PTC shareholders. So we are exploring many options.

I have one more question. When do we expect to -- the Teesta Urja plant, when do we expect to start the production there?

Pankaj?

So Teesta, they are developing in two stages. The first stage is they are constructing the cofferdam. And once the power generation -- I think the partial generation will be started from constructing of the cofferdam. And then in the second phase, they will do the full construction of the full dam by which the full generation will be started. So the construction of the cofferdam is in full swing. I think maybe within a period of next 6 months, so the cofferdam will be constructed and the power will be started generated from that.

We'll take a text question from Ragini Pande from Elara Capital. She has three questions. I'll read them one by one. First question is on a stand-alone basis, finance cost is at INR 56 million versus INR 282 million last year. What is the reason for such a decrease?

Pankaj?

Yes. So in the finance cost, there is a surcharge expenses also included. So that it depends on that how much surcharge we have received and how much of surcharge we have paid. So in the finance cost, the -- basically, it is not just a vanilla -- the working capital cost. It also included the surcharge expenses. So because of that, there are times. So if you want that, I'll give you a full breakup of what it is included, just a minute.

Pankaj, I think she's asking about the surcharge expenses -- sorry, financing expenses. So I think because of your improved liquidity, your expenses have gone down.

Finance expenses, sir, it includes the surcharge expenses also. Just a minute, I'll give you a breakup. So on a stand-alone basis -- so finance cost includes in this -- for the quarter, it is INR 2.49 crores of surcharge expenses are there and INR 3 crores of interest expenses is there. And during the last corresponding quarter, it is INR 25 crores of surcharge expenses and INR 2.32 crores of interest.

Okay. Second question is, please share your short-term volumes and long and medium-term volume and the share in the overall mix in Q3 FY '26?

Yes. So as I have informed earlier, the short-term trade is 13.4 billion units, which amounts to a 67% of the volume. And then there are medium-term, long-term trade, which constitutes around 33% of the total volume during the quarter. And during the corresponding quarter, 63% is the short-term volume and the balance 37% is towards the medium-term and the long-term trade.

And her third question is share your short-term and long-term and medium-term trading margin.

Yes. So short-term margin during the quarter is [ 0.87 ] paisa per unit under the long term -- during the quarter is 7.91 paisa per unit. And during the corresponding quarter, the short-term margin is 0.75 paisa per unit. And in long term, it is 7.96 paisa per unit.

We'll take our next question from Dr. Naresh Matai from Smt MMK College.

With a good amount of reserves and surplus, can we, the shareholders expect in the near future to get bonus shares from PTC India?

Recently, if you are aware that possibly our promoter structure is also undergoing a change. So I would not like to comment on that unless and until these things have been discussed among the promoters. But as and when if we have got anything to declare, we shall come out and make a public declaration. As of now, it is not under consideration.

Next question is from O.P. Gandhi from Siddhi Technologies.

Yes. My question -- I have repeat question. Now assuming that NTPC will come in the promoters' seat, maybe in 3 months' time after the resolution passed in EGM and all. And NTPC has a large power capacity. So do you think that you will have a benefit of synergy between NTPC and PTC, assuming that NTPC power trading may be merged in due course of time. Then any synergy between you and NTPC, sir?

Should that happen, that possibility that the trading arm of the NTPC and the PTC, the business somehow, I mean, a synergy is provided. In that case, we are going to be benefited because now there is a regulation which says that the URS, the un-requisitioned surplus power of all the NTPC power plants, it has to be compulsorily first offered into the trading -- for trading in the markets. And unless and until that is done, the fixed cost is not paid to the NTPC. So that power volume is also a significant volume that would come to us if -- should that synergy thing happen. So yes, there is a lot of strategic synergy.

Do you think that NTPC will be in the promoter seat by 3 months' time? And although the NTPC to decide to buy other promoters or not, that is their separate business.

Sir, one thing I would like to clarify that NTPC is not coming in to become a promoter. NTPC is already a promoter. It is the other way around that all other three promoters have decided to relinquish their rights as promoter. So NTPC has remained and become the sole promoter.

That is my intention. NTPC will become a sole promoter. So do you think that with the rating improvement in PTC finance, so since -- under your Chairmanship, there is a lot of improvement in PTC Finance corporate governance. But after the NTPC being the promoter, do you think that more and more rating improvement will be there in PTC Finance?

PTC Finance is a separate and listed company. I think their own rating would depend on a lot many factors. It would be improper for me to comment about the affairs of that company per se. But yes, NTPC is a very, very reputable player. And if they become our sole promoter, then of course, that benefit of legacy and benefit of synergy, it comes to all the group entities. That much I can say.

We'll take a text question from Nikunj Mehta from Wealth Guardian. Do you have any plans to sell some stake in HPX to other partners in the ecosystem? And second question is, when can we see any business coming out of the MOU with NLC India? And how big can it become?

First thing regarding the sale of the stake in the HPX, basically, if we have to be member on the HPX, then we must first wait for the market coupling to happen. If that happens and the HPX is able to capture significant amount of... [Technical Difficulty]

I'm sorry sir, you are sounding muffled. Can you just repeat the answer please.

Regarding the HPX, first thing we must wait for the outcome of this market coupling exercise. Then only I think it will be a relevant question, whether or not we are owners of that exchange and whether or not we are selling equity of that exchange. I think a lot hinges on how the exchange business itself is going forward. So I would like to -- I mean, not comment on that aspect right now. What was your second question that was regarding...

I'll repeat. Second question is, when can we see any business coming out of the MOU?

NLC?

NLC India.

Yes. I mean it is progressing at a reasonable pace. I believe that internally, NLC has to take some Government of India approvals, and they are in the process of doing so. So once that comes, and we are, I mean, know as to that concrete approvals are now available on both sides, so we can move really very fast. They are a very good company, and we see a lot of synergy because they are a coal company and they want to migrate and become a relevant renewable energy company also. And for that, we see a lot of synergies with them. So maybe in upcoming technologies like battery energy storage solutions or some other RE projects, we can partner with them.

The next text question is from Paresh Shah, a retail investor. Please throw some light on buyback of shares. Are we thinking on it? Do we merge with NTPC?

As of now, there is no proposal under consideration of the management for a buyback of the shares. Recently, the rules for the buyback have been changed in this budget. Earlier it was absolutely not favorable even to the investors. As of now, there is no proposal under consideration.

Next question is from Rajiv Agrawal from Sterling Capital. How do we calculate operational income and trading margin shown in presentation?

Sir, I think that I have already replied to that question.

We'll take the next question from Naresh Matai from Smt MMK College.

In the near future, can we expect any kind of a reward for shareholders in the form of rights issue and -- such that benefits the company's reserves and surplus as well as increases the shareholder shareholding by subscribing to the rights issues.

Sir, as of now, we are not planning any rights issue because unless and until we have some definitive plan as to how to deploy that capital, which we further collect from the shareholders, we should not be going to the shareholders to collect more money. If you have been present throughout this conference, you would know that many people are asking as to what you are doing with your cash reserves. So let me formulate a CapEx plan. Then if need arises, we'll discuss and debate and then take a decision.

The next follow-up question is from O.P. Gandhi from Siddhi Technologies.

Yes. Jhawar ji, there is a suggestion from our side. We have done some working on PTC. Today, NTPC and other promoters are holding 16%, 16.5%. And Damodar Valley is also holding around 4.5% or 5%. So combined, they are holding 21%, 22%. And if NTPC Power Trading is merged with PTC, so they will get approximately 15% to 20% further stake. So then that way, NTPC can consolidate in your book, say, 35% to 40%, then if you buy back the shares, then NTPC can have an indirect stake of more than 45%. So I think you pass this -- our suggestion to NTPC Board.

Certainly, all options will be discussed. A lot depends on as to how -- I mean, what is the take of the NTPC management. But your -- I mean, suggestion is noted, sir.

As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to Dr. Manoj Kumar Jhawar, CMD, for closing comments. Over to you, sir.

Okay. Good afternoon, shareholders. I'm sorry, I was -- when I was reading my speech, I mean, a bout of sore throat, I think interrupted my speech many times. But thank you for patient listening, and thank you for your support through the turbulent times. I can assure you one thing that our trading volumes and trading numbers have been robust in this quarter also. It may look as if that we have not been able to achieve that much income from the surcharge or the rebate, but those are transitory in nature. What should be -- our company should be judged basically for growth in the trading volumes. And I think we have delivered a solid growth in the trading volume, and we look forward to your continued support and understanding. Thank you so much.

Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of PTC India Limited, that concludes today's session. Thank you for your participation. You may now click on the exit meeting to disconnect. Thank you.