PTC India Financial Services Limited ($533344)

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q4 and annual FY '26 Conference Call hosted by PTC India Financial Services Limited. [Operator Instructions] I now hand the conference over to Ms. Priya Chaudhary from PTC Financials. Thank you, and over to you, Priya.

Thank you. Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the Q4 and FY '26 investor call for a discussion on the fourth quarter and annual financial results of PTC India Financial Limited. I'm Priya Chaudhary, Head, Investor Relations at PFS. FY '26 has been a year of measured and evolving progress. PFS has navigated a phase of transition marked by changes at the Board and the senior management level, alongside a continued focus on strengthening the balance sheet and improving asset quality. With AUM, while it has moderated to INR 3,292 crores from the peak levels, this is due to a conscious and a calibrated shift towards resolving legacy NPAs and rebuilding a higher quality, granular and a more resilient loan book. There are clear signs of improving operational momentum. Gross Stage 3 has declined significantly from INR 711 crores in FY '25 to INR 190 crores in FY '26, alongside a strong and a visible pipeline supported by increased disbursements and sanctions. Sanctions stood at INR 3,448 crores in financial year '26. This is a growth of over 300% year-on-year compared to INR 825 crores in financial year '25, while disbursements were at INR 1,235 crores in financial year '26, which is a growth of 35% year-on-year compared to INR 916 crores in financial year '25. Additionally, CRISIL has removed the company's rating from watch with developing implications and reaffirmed it at CRISIL a negative A1. Our focus remains firmly on the infrastructure sector, primarily renewable energy, transmission, distribution and other core and Sunshine segments, driven by a calibrated risk-conscious approach to growth and backed by an experienced execution team. I will now like to introduce the senior management present in today's call, Mr. Dilip Srivastava, Director, Finance and CFO; Mr. Sanjeev Kumar, Director, Operations; and Mr. Kalur Srinivas, Executive Director, Treasury. With this, I would now like to hand over the call to our Director, Finance and CFO, Mr. Dilip Srivastava, for the financial update on the company. Over to you, sir.

Thank you, Priya. Good evening to all of you. FY '26 marked a year of strong financial and operational performance with the PAT rising to INR 319 crores from INR 217 crores in FY '25. The total income has dipped slightly to INR 518 crores from INR 638 crores in the previous year. The company witnessed a sharp acceleration in the business activity with the loan sanctions increasing significantly to INR 3,448 crores compared to INR 825 crores in FY '25 and disbursement growing to INR 1,235 crores from INR 916 crores in the previous year. This growth was accompanied by the enhanced profitability metrics with return on assets annualized improving to 6% from 3.56%. The return on net worth annualized increasing to 10.95% from the 8.2%. Net interest margin on the earning portfolio also strengthened to 4.49% from the 4.25% in the FY 2025. Notably, the company achieved a significant improvement in the portfolio quality with Gross Stage 3 assets reducing by 73% to INR 190 crores from INR 711 crores and net Stage 3 assets declining by 83% to INR 47 crores from INR 284 crores in the previous year. The provision coverage ratio for the Stage 3 assets also improved materially to 75% in FY '26 from 60% in FY '25, underscoring a strengthened balance sheet and prudent risk management approach. On quarter update, Q4 FY '26 reflected a strong pickup in origination and disbursement activity with disbursement increasing to INR 162 crores from INR 50 crores in the Q4 FY '25 and loan sanctions rising sharply to INR 1,004 crores compared to INR 100 crores in the corresponding quarter of the previous year. Pro [indiscernible] metrics, however, moderated during the quarter with return on net worth annualized to 6.24% compared to 8.54% in Q4 FY '25 and return on assets to 3.6% versus 4.02% in the previous year. Additionally, the yield on the earning portfolio softened to 10.29% from 11.27% in Q4 FY '25, reflecting evolving portfolio dynamics and a calibrated approach to the growth. Now I hand over to our Director, Operations for the further update.

Yes. Thank you, Dilip. Thank you, Priya, for a good setup of tone, and good evening, everyone. As Priya and Dilip has already given a snapshot of the business activity we have already done on FY '26, I'll be pleased to share an update on the business performance of FY '26 and Q4. Business performance, along with the progress on our scale-up initiatives and the way forward. Importantly, our performance and strategic decisions remains fully aligned with what we have consistently articulated over the past few investor calls, focused on calibrated growth, diversification and strengthening the overall portfolio quality. FY '26 witnessed a strong uptick in both sanctions and disbursements, reaching a 3-year high. This reflects robust origination momentum and improved execution capabilities achieved with maintaining a disciplined and risk-calibrated approach of lending. Sanctions stood at INR 3,448 crores compared to INR 825 crores in FY '25, that is more than 3x now. And this was INR 525 crores in FY '24. While the disbursements were at INR 1,235 crores in comparison to the FY '26, INR 916 crores and FY '24 INR 586 crores. During the year, 100% of our disbursement were to the private corporate borrowers, reinforcing our strategic shift towards a more diversified and commercially driven portfolio. Our origination engine remains strong with sustained sanction momentum and a healthy pipeline across sectors and products, positioning us well on continued growth. We have also increased our focus on sole and multiple lending structures, thereby strategically reducing reliance on the consortium lending and improving control over credit underwriting and monitoring. From a sectoral perspective, FY '26 saw diversification across renewable, [ DISCOMs ], oil and gas, roads, compressed biogas and emerging data center value chain. Our foray into the data center ecosystem, CVG ecosystem and CVG [ Masks ] a strategic entry into high-growth Sunshine infrastructure segment aligned with the Indian digital infrastructure expansion. We also made steady progress in building our structured finance portfolio, leveraging our strong relationship base to create tailored financing solutions. This diversification into the value chain segment is expected to further strengthen portfolio yield over the medium term. On the asset quality front, FY '26 witnessed significant improvement with three out of four out of gross Stage 3 accounts, representing approximately 73% of the total value transitioned out of Stage 3 over the past year. This reflects sustained resolution effort and strengthening of the balance sheet. At the same time, prepayments during the year led to a moderation in AUM. We have faced huge prepayments, but that prepayments were of the low-yielding accounts, which is a function of improved asset quality and borrower deleveraging even as disbursement momentum remains strong. So our yield is expected to be improving because the new disbursements are being done for a high-yield proposals where the prepayments are being done on a low-yield proposals. In summary, FY '26 has been a year of a major yet decisive progress, characterized by strong growth in sanctions and disbursement, continued strategic shift towards private sector lending, increasing portfolio granularity, diversification across sectors, including new age infrastructure, expansion into new sectors and a meaningful improvement in asset quality. We believe these efforts had laid a strong foundation for sustained growth, and we remain committed to scaling the business with discipline while continuing to deliver long-term value for all stakeholders. This is all about the business update. Thank you.

We will now open the floor to Q&A.

[Operator Instructions]

I just wanted to know the difference we have such a large difference between our disbursement and sanction. I think from last 6 months, we have disbursed close to INR 2,000 crores, but sanction is not even 40% or so. So when we are going to get that rate? That's my first question, sir.

I think you were talking about the difference between disbursement and sanction. Our sanctions stood at INR 3,500 crores almost for this year, where the disbursement are INR 1,200 crores. The reason is we are into an infrastructure finance segment. Infrastructure finance by their nature only is a large financing thing where the project finance is done for the large projects. Projects are executed in the time line of, say, 1 year to 3 years' time for different type of infrastructure projects.

Longer tenure.

Longer tenure. So it's not a back-to-back disbursement type of thing. Sanctions are done. Then disbursements are done after -- as per the construction after all due diligence regarding legal and technical things. So as the construction progresses, the disbursement happens. So sanctions are done at one time and the disbursement happens during the next, say, 1, 2, 3 years' time when the construction happens. And this is the major reason for this difference between sanctions and disbursements. Had we been having some big pipeline earlier, that would have been disbursed here, but because of certain issues in past, that there was no sanction pipeline. So whatever sanction has been done in this year, that will reflect in the subsequent years as disbursement. This is the nature of infrastructure finance.

Okay. So we need to keep aside that money and need to fresh leverage or we are allowed to leverage if we get the new sanction or a new customer who are ready to take it immediate front, if any. So...

These commitments of whatever disbursement we are expected to do in the next few quarters or something are taken care by our ALCO committee. We take care of our asset liability match where the required disbursement is anticipated and money is kept assigned for that. This is the way finance is done. So sanctions are there, whichever sanctions are expected to be disbursed in next quarter, the money is there with us to be disbursed. So this is the way whenever required, we borrow also for that.

Okay. Understood, sir. Second, sir, now I think sir. So what we are doing it and what's the reason for resignation? Secondly, earlier, he has guided in the set of a vision mission for the next 3, 4 years like a yearly disbursement of close to INR 4,000 crores on the same path or Board is on the same path or it's CEO's vision or the Board's vision? And what's the new agenda now? And what's the time line we are considering to entering a new CEO on the Board?

It was a company vision, not an individual vision. So first of all, and MD has resigned and that information reason for -- that was his personal reason that has been duly informed to the stock exchange as well that is available in the public as well. And existing -- that process has been initiated by the company for the replacement of the MD because still he is here 'till 30th of June. So that process has been initiated. And whatever the projections and the plan was there that existing management, they are working on it, and they will put best effort to put that in that form of result.

And it's quite a very short time CEO in and out. So it's the problem at the organization level, it's a cultural mismatch or speed in which between the PFS and PTC or a ministry level mismatch between PFS, PTC and ministry. What is the single agenda why this comes and comes out? Because at the time of taking such a large leadership, we need to ensure that he is the large vision with the association with the organization because just the company come out from the turmoil. So why that happened and what we are making sure that this will not happen again?

Let me address it. Mr. Balaji has been here for almost 2 years now. It's not just come in and come out. Balaji has been there for 2 years. He has spent a good time in solving so many issues of the company, making -- bringing back on track and solving this legacy issues, corporate governance issues what we are facing earlier. So he has been there for quite a long time. At the same time, personal efficiencies and personal requirements, you cannot ignore. Balaji has resigned for some of his personal reasons, which he has already disclosed in his resignation letter also and various platforms of RBI and credit agencies also. There is nothing as difficult into that. Anybody who has got some other personal requirements, other personal engagements can resign. It's a normal process in a company. He has worked for 2 years. So there is nothing more than that should be read into that. That's all. There is no involvement of any other things into that, that you are trying to read some study that. It is simple. he has got some personal commitment and he left the company for that. That is his decision, and we should respect that. That's the only thing.

Understood, sir. Just a last question from my side, sir. On the cost of borrowing side, we are at much higher at 9.5 percentage or so despite just a one leverage company and other competitors are selling 7.5% or much lower than that. So we have a credible promoter who are backing us, they are also cash rich. We are also low leverage. So any backing and why such a high cost of borrowing? Because now gross NPAs and all the accounts are now also lease. So what's the guidance on cost of borrowing to coming down?

We have been taking up with the lenders, right? And we expect that improvement should be there in the cost of borrowing. So our cost of borrowing is not 9.5%. It is lesser than that. And our treasury team has been aggressively chasing up with all the lenders for further reduction in the spread. So we are working on that.

So we just want to add into that. You might have witnessed in the last quarter, we have reduced our PFS BR also. Our base rate has also been reduced by 60 basis points. That, in fact, is a reflection of our reduced cost of fund only. And cost of funds will go further down as we go on borrowing fresh since we have not borrowed anything in last financial year, whatever we have borrowed at the earlier cost, it will remain like that. As soon as we'll go on repaying that borrowings and we'll go for a fresh borrowing, it will come at lesser cost. So cost is not such a big problem. We'll manage that. And consistently, we'll see the PFS BR going down in future.

Okay. And sir, just last, I mean, we are maintaining that INR 4,000 crores yearly disbursement for FY '27?

That target is yet to be said. The budget is in the process of approval. Our target is not only quantitative, it is qualitative also. It should be a high yielding and it should give a return on asset and return on money deployed also. So our target is not only based on how much money we lend, how much effectively we are earning out of that. That you might have seen on the business numbers of this number this year also. We have not been very aggressive in disbursing just making top line, whatever cost -- whatever interest rate we are supposed to lend. We are on to a completely understood -- quality portfolio and cost benefit analysis, we do everything like that. So INR 4,000 crores was not committed last year. It was a different number. This year also, whatever budget we'll approve, we'll go for that, and we'll achieve that.

Possible to get the number by next quarter, that would be great.

[Operator Instructions] Our next question comes from the line of [indiscernible] an individual investor.

Yes, I would like to know about the dividend. This year, again, the dividend has not been announced. In the last quarter meeting in the investor meeting, I've asked this question to Mr. Balaji and he told that there is going to be announcement in the last quarter. And in this quarter also, there is no announcement of the dividend. Last year also, there was no announcement of the dividend. There is a profit in the organization. Why the dividend has not been announced since I'm individual investor. And I'm in this share from the last 5 years, I believe so. And one other thing for me is a dividend. Since profitability was profitable company and I was expecting dividend from the last year, there is no dividend at all. And I understand there was an issue of the corporate governance 2 years before and which has been resolved also by Mr. Balaji and the team. And I was expecting that this quarter, there will be announcement of the dividend, number one. Number two question is, I understand there is some change in the shareholding of the PTC India. Now the NTPC is going to be a promoter for this PTC India. What will be impact in the PTC India financial for such changes?

Dividend actually that money at this time, we have not declared and we'll review it in the next quarter. And this part. Ultimately, this is only for the increased capital appreciation and that net worth ultimately, it's a money related to the net worth has been improved to the stakeholders only. So that was the one part. Second part that PTC, that NTPC and that all the four PSUs and only one PSU will be taken care of. So as of now, no impact has come on us. No formal intimation has been given to us on that part. And we don't feel that any adverse impact is there on the PFS for that part.

Our next question comes from the line of [indiscernible] an individual investor.

Sir, my question is regarding fundraising process. Since last 5 to 6 quarters, you are continuously giving us false assurance that we are raising the fund and by the end of this quarter, we will get the cash in the hand. Like this continuously, we are giving false assurance to the investors. That was -- that is the reason because of inability to raise the fund, you are not disbursing more loans despite you are sanctioning more amount of loans.

Your question has got two parts. One is borrowings why we are not raising more funds. because of the balance sheet, we are still flush with cash. We have got INR 1,800 crores in our liquidity in our balance sheet, you can see if the money is there, why we will not disburse and why we'll borrow. Is that simple. When we borrow, there is a cost on that. And that cost on our company and it is on you only. It's a prudent decision that if money is not required, why should we borrow here? We'll borrow we'll have to pay interest. So whenever we'll require to borrow, to disburse, we'll borrow at that time. Our treasury is working day night on making relationship and getting sanctions, but borrowing is our plan. Since the disbursement has not picked up as per our expectation and a huge prepayment has also come in books. So cash is already available there. Our sanctions were more than INR 3,000 crores and still there are INR 2,000 crores of pipeline, which may be disbursed in the coming next 6 months. So to match that money is almost available in the books. Whenever we'll require that asset liability mismatch is there, we'll go and borrow.

Sir, previous quarter only, you will disburse nearly INR 1,000 crores in this quarter and increased 15% of loan book size. But despite that, you are having cash in hand. Despite having cash in hand, you not disbursed because your inability to raise fund in the market. That is the reason, sir. You are keeping capital adequacy ratio high because you are not able to raise fund in the market.

Sir, you are asking questions and giving answers yourself. So I...

Since quarter I'm observing you are keeping capital adequacy ratio high because you are not able to raise fund and showing that your capital adequacy ratio is very high. So that's why you are not raising fund.

Sir, I can give my regions. You are reading your own regions. So I cannot say...

I think this is the reason Balaji also resigned from the post sir. He's not able to answer to the investors.

Sir, I don't have any comment on to that. Sir, it's not -- Balaji has given his reasons in his relation letter. It is on a public domain. You can go through that. Apart from that, I'm not in a position to comment anything on to that. As far as disbursement is concerned, agreed that we had assured that we'll disburse INR 1,500 crores almost in Q4. We have sanctioned also a good amount. But the projects have not yet started, the projects which have been sanctioned the loan. They take their own time in getting approvals and start. We cannot throw the money to them unless they really require the disbursement. So that disbursement will happen in future times. the infrastructure loans are that nature only. And remaining all things, whatever you have said, I really appreciate your sentiments and your feeling. But I don't have to comment on anything on to that.

Then why previous management, the MD and CEO said that we are consulting many financial institutions by the end of this quarter, we will get the sanction and cash in the hands, sir? Why he said like that?

Because that is their work. They are supposed to do that. But ultimately, when the requirement would be there, then only the borrowing will happen. Still, the treasury team is working on that. And whenever required, the borrowing will be done.

[Operator Instructions] Our next question comes from the line of Chintan Mehta from [ Puneshka ] Family Office.

The INR 190 crores gross Stage 3 portfolio, if you can throw some line what are this -- at what stage or resolution they are? And I think it's a [indiscernible] portfolio, if you can confirm or what is the status of this INR 190 crores?

Mr. Srivastava will take that one.

One. The major portion of the GNPA is [indiscernible]. And I think as this was discussed, I think this has been under discussion a number of times in earlier calls also. The resolution process is underway. It's been referred to NCLT. And [indiscernible], the promoters had offered an OTS, which as and when it is -- if there's an acceptable offer, then it will be considered on merits. As far as the time line for any resolution is there, the process is on. I think as and when the resolution move forward, we will be communicating to the stock exchanges.

Okay. Okay. Understood. And the last 6 months, the disbursement which we have done, which we call it close to INR 800 crores or let's say, sanction amount of last INR 2,200 crores, what is the average age of that life cycle of that loan amount? It's a long project or short project, something like?

This is something around 10.5%.

Okay. I'm asking about number of years.

I think you are asking about yields, okay, number of years, average number of -- the tenure of this project loan would be something around 5 to 7 years, it will be falling between then.

Okay. Which areas these are falling? I mean on private lenders, but which infrastructure or which kind of projects these are?

As of now, sanctions have been done mainly on private lenders. One or two utilities has also been sanctioned where this return is conducive to us. So we'll disburse in future. We'll keep in mind that our yield should be in place. Whatever our yield requirement is there, that should be there, even if we are disbursing to government -- government borrowers.

Okay. And sir, any under discussion like after NBC takes the charges promoter, the PFS to the private or some transaction or something the monetization of the PFS cards or anything is communicated from last update?

We are not aware of anything like that.

And sir, at the Board level, every seat is now fulfilled. There are only few resignation which is at the time nothing about.

I think we have addressed this question in past also in some of other investor requests also. We again repeat that it's a call by an individual. And current MD and CEO, Mr. Balaji has taken a call that he want to quit because of some personal reasons, he has.

No, sir, I'm asking that any other vacant seat apart from CEO or not at all entire -- all the seats are full, like Board level or operation level or any executive level?

All the Board level positions are full. CEO vacancy would be created as soon as Mr. Balaji would be released. And our team is already working on replacement of MD and CEO. So it will be also done in due course.

Our next question comes from the line of Vishal Mehta from Oakland Capital.

Yes. Just wanted to check, sir, we've had sanctions of almost INR 3,500 crores. So when -- so you said there is a lag between when you sanction it and how -- when it comes into disbursements. Could you just guide us through how long will it take to translate into addition into the AUM first point? And the second point is, could you also give us details regarding how much was the prepayment or repayment of loans that has happened during the year?

Taking your first question first. Infrastructure loans infrastructure projects are executed in the time line of, say, 6 months to 3, 3.5 years type of thing. So some of the sanctioned projects are going to be completed in coming 6 months. Some are going to be completed in coming 1 year. 1 or 2 may take even more than that. So disbursement will be distributed accordingly. And we expect a major portion of this 3,400 sanctions out of that, about INR 2,000 crores is undisbursed as of now. Major portion of this will be disbursed within Q2 of this year. And at the same time, we'll go on sanctioning also in this period. It's a continuous cycle that whatever we sanction, some disbursement will happen later, some disbursement can be back to back. And some disbursement will take shorter period, some disbursement will take longer period. It's a process what is -- we can call a sanction and disbursement process. So this INR 2,000-odd crores, which are still undisbursed, may be disbursed out of that, maybe INR 1,500 crores may be disbursed in coming 2 quarters. Remaining may be disbursed in remaining 2 quarters. And at the same time, we'll sanction fresh loans also out of that, some loans will be disbursed in the same quarter next quarter, and that goes on. So it's very difficult to say by what time we will disburse this. It's a construction process as soon as the construction is done, we disbursed. And as far as the repayments are concerned in the last financial year, what is the number? Something INR 1,441 crores to be precise, has been prepaid in repayment has been done in the financial year. Let me correct the number once again. It is prepayments of the loan, which has not scheduled, prepayment has been done is INR 1,105 crores. And total repayments are INR 1,441 crores. This is a number of 26.

Great, sir. Sir, in that case, would this number be similar for next year as well? Because in that case, we will have to probably to register a growth in AUM, we would have to have disbursements, which will be over INR 1,500 crores to ensure that we have addition to the loan book, right?

It's very difficult to say what the number will remain same or not because prepayments cannot be predicted. It depends on the requirement of the borrower. If he wants to prepay because of certain reasons, he may have got some money available at lesser cost or they have planned to shift the loan to somewhere else, they prepay. So prepayments cannot be predicted. Repayments can be predicted. So that is in the line of prepayments were in the line of last year also itself, maybe exactly what we are proposing. This number is not yet finalized. But prepayments, we cannot predict. It's always hanging on the lender side. It's all -- we take care in the disbursements that any prepayment or repayment comes, we should lend it again. So that plan is here.

Got it. Sir, just one last point that we have now -- the Board is also fully functional now, and we have -- the rating agencies has also given us a neutral rating. So going forward, would it be possible to just give a guidance in terms of how are we looking at maybe the next 2 years to -- in terms of scaling up the loan book, what kind of disbursements we are looking at or sanctions or however. So any long-term guidance in terms of how we are trying to take the company forward because there have been a lot of speed breakers that we've had to hurdle over. And now since most of them are behind us, can we just give us a path going forward?

In my initial submission also, I have submitted that we'll be working on building the loan book with quality as well as quantity, though quantity may be not our biggest preferences. Quality will be our biggest preferences. We'll have to look at the yield also so that the loans should generate sufficient profit to the stakeholders. At the same time, top line is always our priority. So you'll see increased disbursements also in future. Quality, we have already worked on. There is no fresh slippage in our, say, last 2, 3 years disbursement. It will not happen in future also. So we are bolting on to that. And you'll see at least, say, 30% to 50% growth year-on-year.

This you're talking about disbursements or you're talking about AUM?

This I'm talking about AUM.

Our next question comes from the line of [indiscernible], an individual investor.

I have a couple of questions. The first question is that can you give us some numbers about what is your net NPA at this stage? And are you considering any other loan? Or are they at different stages of becoming NPA, that number one. Number two, as far as dividend is concerned, when you have INR 1,800 plus on your books, giving a 10% dividend is cost you only INR 55 crores which will recover in the coming quarters. So considering in the coming quarter doesn't make a difference. You must consider the time when you can get the impression in the market that you are dividend paying company and keep your investors happy. That's the second. The last question is that are you planning to join any of these banks consortium, which keeps giving loans to large projects and they do have other partners who contribute in that and then give the loan, which becomes the first as well as long term.

I'll address one by one or three. First is what you are asking us is NPA as on date. We have got INR 190 crore odd NPAs as on date. It's 1.49% net NPA and it's INR 190 crores only. Net NPA is only INR 47 crores. And second question was about dividend. Your suggestion is well noted, and hope we'll -- our Board will work on that.

Time that annual meeting, you announced that, okay, 10% dividend and that makes all the investors happy as well as forward looking.

It is well noted. And we will definitely convey this to our Board so that appropriate decision can be taken. And third part was -- can you repeat the third part?

Third part, we are open, right? It's not that we have limited, we do not participate in the co-lending. So depending upon the case to case and matching our risk and reward, and we are open for that. And in a few of the cases, we have done as well, right, some small ticket sizes. We are part of the multiple lending arrangement. So we have been doing that part.

And we are participating in consortium also wherever we get chance. So we are not averse of participating in consortium lending. We are doing, and that is one of our products. So we'll keep on doing in future also.

Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for the closing remarks. Thank you, and over to you, team.

Thank you all for your participation in today's earnings call. We would like to take this opportunity to reiterate our commitment to delivering consistent value to all our stakeholders, guided by the principle of transparency, accountability and responsible growth. Our core focus continues to be on profitable expansion, operational excellence and the development of innovative customer-centric solutions aligned with our long-term strategic vision. If you may have any further questions following this call, please feel free to reach out to us. Our senior management team at PFS will be happy to address any queries and concerns. We value your continued support and look forward to our ongoing engagements. Thank you.

On behalf of PTC Financial, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.