PTC India Limited (PTC) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

[Operator Instructions] I now hand over the proceedings to Dr. Mishra. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you very much, Stanford. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. On behalf of PTC India Limited, I welcome all of the investors and analysts... [Technical Difficulty] the company, Mr. Rajiv Malhotra, you know him very well. And on my further left is Mr. Sushant Chaturvedi and Mr. Anand, who takes care of the Investor Relations, and I'm pretty sure you all know them very well. On the further right, we have Mr. Mukesh Ahuja, who takes care -- who is VP Finance representing the finance team. He takes care of risk investor and the results. On the very onset, this is a time to announce that PTC India has achieved 50 billion units of traded volume in the first 6 months of the FY '22. This is first time in the history of PTC that we have achieved 50 billion units only in the first 6 months of our operation. This volume is almost 12% higher than the traded volume corresponding to the previous year. And in this quarter, as well, although there were some difficulties, we clocked 6% higher volume compared to the previous year same quarter. As you're all aware that the month of September and October, there were a lot of news in media that there are aberrations in the prices as well as the shortage of the fuel. In spite of that, PTC could service all its customers without any hurdle and difficulty. We have managed this time very well. And there is no reason why we should not say that in spite of 6% volumes, this was a difficult period for any of the trading company, and we have managed it really well. Let me just before we go to the other numbers, which are very important, the major milestone what we have achieved in this last 3 months or almost at the end of this quarter was the order book of 2,570 megawatt from various DISCOMS under the Pilot Scheme-II, although we could sign only 820-megawatt out of this with the 3 states that is Kerala, Jammu Kashmir and Tamil Nadu. We could not complete the entire order book, but we are exploring possibilities that if there are some unmet demand and the order we have received from the state DISCOM, how we can convert it into a [ BP ]. Specifically, I would like to mention in this quarter 2 very significant things. One is the consultancy business growth which is almost 41% higher than what we have achieved in the last corresponding quarter and 56% compared to the first 6 months of this year compared to the previous year. Very important thing which I would like to share with all the investors and the analysts, we have earned a steady return of more than 30% consistently from the fee-based income, consultancy fee. And this is something which we have ensured in the past and we will ensure in the future. The experience and expertise of the PTC highly skilled professionals who are in great demand in this growing power market, we would like to leverage that in terms of our consultancy business. And for that purpose, we have hired a new space of 7,500 square feet in Uptown Gurgaon to focus on our consultancy business and the technology vertical, which we are discussing for quite some time with all our investors. The second very significant development is our associate company, HPX, let me repeat the name again, HPX, formerly known as the Pranurja Solutions Limited which was granted license by the CERC to create the third power exchange in the country, and that is progressing really well. And the software testing and the platform testing is in the advanced stages. The new exchange in all probability will be operating from the World Trade Tower high-end building in Noida and will be up operationally by this financial year. Some of the prominent regulatory changes, which would enable PTC and our associate exchanges to get the benefits are LED integrated [indiscernible] then potential of future and derivative market with diligence of the honorable Supreme Court. So we are looking forward for an enhanced growth in the power market. And let me tell all the investors that the change in regulations and the opening of the windows will be most beneficial, not only for the exchanges, but for the traders like PTC in this growth. The other area, which we have already mentioned in the past that the real-time market has contributed significantly in our volume this time, and it is 2.2 billion units during the quarter. And we expect that the similar kind of market share we can expect in the integrated [ DIY ] market. And on a single month, we had touched 9.8 billion units in 1 month and 50 billion units in the half year, which we just completed on 30th of September. This has just [indiscernible] what has happened in the last 3 months and 6 months, we have completed on 30th September. I request Pankaj Goel Ji, who is the CEO of the company, to give the financial numbers. And after that, we will open it for questions and answers and whatever queries you have regarding our performance during this quarter as well as the first 6 months of the year.

Thank you, sir, and good evening to all. Now I -- I suppose that the presentation -- financial presentation has already been uploaded. So I will only go through the select features of the financial results for the half year and quarter ended September '21. First, I'll go through the features -- salient features of the half year ending September '21 vis-à-vis corresponding half year of September '20. The volume has increased by 12% to 50.7 [ million ] units from 45.2 billion units in the corresponding half year. The total operational income decreased by 4% to INR 325 crores from INR 340 crores. The reason for this slight decrease is due to the reason that in the last half year corresponding, last half year, we have one of transactions in which the company has earned an income actually. And this year, that transaction was not available with the company. And accordingly, when the total operational goes down, so naturally profit before tax has also gone down by 17% to INR 255 crores from INR 308 crores, due to the reason I already explained, due to one of transactions and coupled with the nonreceipt of dividend income from our one of our subsidiary company, PFS. On the similar line, PAT has also decreased by 19% to INR 190 crores from INR 234 crores. Earnings per share for the half year stood at INR 6.41 compared to INR 7.9 during the last half year. Now I will go through the salient features of the quarter ended September 21. The volume has increased by 6% to 27.8 billion units from 26.2 billion units. Total operational income has decreased, as I have already explained because of another transaction by 15% to INR 190 crores or INR 224 crores. And the profit before tax in the same direction has also decreased by 30% to INR 151 crores from INR 216 crores. On the similar line, PAT has also decreased by 32% to INR 113 crores from INR 166 crores. Earning share for the quarter stood at INR 3.8 per unit compared to INR 5.6 per unit. Now I will go through the key financial highlights of the consolidated results. And I would like to say that because slightly the performance of PTC India has gone down during this quarter. But our both the subsidiaries have performed very well during the last year, during current year, current quarter. So they made up the results actually. So first of all I will move through half year results. The volume on a consolidated basis has increased by 12% to 51.1 billion unit from 45.5 billion units. Profit before tax has increased by 9% to INR 444 crore from INR 407 crores. Profit after tax has increased by 13% to INR 332 crore from INR 294 crores. Earnings per share for the half year stood at INR 10 per unit compared to INR 9.23 during the last half year. I will go through the quarter results. The volume has increased by 6% to INR 28 billion units on 26.4 billion units. The profit before tax has decreased by 2% to INR 262 crores from INR 266 crore. Profit after tax has increased by 1% to INR 195 crores from INR 194 crores, and earnings per share for the quarter on a consolidated basis stood at INR 5.98 per unit compared to INR 6.17 per unit. Thank you very much.

I think after this results, Stanford, if you can open the question-and-answer session.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of [ Saumil Mehta from Mehta Advisors. ]

Am I audible?

Yes, you are audible. Please go ahead.

Congratulation, sir, on a good set of numbers. Firstly, I would like to see many, many thank you providing us with interim dividend this year. Is the company planning to declare any more dividend in the current year? And also your subsidiary PFS has posted excellent results with the highest ever return on assets at 2.2%. Are they also planning to provide some dividend this year?

Mr. Mehta, let me answer your first question. Yes, we have given the interim dividend of 20% this year. And the second part, I would like to say that we have on the dividend policy, which we have followed in the past and we would like to comply and follow this, this year as well. The second part you're asking question related to PFS, I'm not very sure, they have already met the investors and the analysts, and they have given their -- the road map for the dividend. I understand that should suffice your answer.

Yes, most certainly does. Other than that, just one more thing. Again, I would like to reiterate what I've already said, many congratulations to the new management for taking charge and we certainly believe that the company may achieve new heights under your leadership. Just would like to request you to give some broad guidance on the future growth of the company, if you could.

Certainly, Mr. Mehta. I mean at the end of all the question-and-answer session, I have something, which I would like to mention, which will give you some -- the way we are trying to guide this company for a better view. But let me complete the question-and-answer session, and then we will come back to it.

Okay. Great. That's it from my end. Thank you so much for addressing my queries.

The next question is from the line of Sarvesh Gupta from Maximal Capital.

So sir, first question is you mentioned that there was some one-off transaction in the same quarter last year. So can you be specific about the amount which was involved in. What was it, which was one-off in the same quarter last year, which hasn't happened this year because of which our profitability on a Y-o-Y basis has gone down?

Sarvesh, you are asking a specific transaction, we try to not to give details of any transaction. But let me tell you, if you go through the trends of the last 3 years, you will feel that this was the one-off in last year. And in many cases, on a specific transaction, we earned more than what is generally expected out of it. So it was a one-off transaction. And that you could see in the 2018, '19 and then '21 that results are consistent. And in this quarter, we are almost consistent. And that's what I can answer at this point of time. If you want to know something more, after this investor call we can discuss.

Okay. And secondly, there is also a change of mix if you compare Y-o-Y, I mean, the short term has gone up. So has that also resulted in any change in the profitability for this quarter?

There will always be some change in the volumes in our portfolio. That is because of the demand or the market -- prevailing market conditions. That's the reason when I mentioned it in my opening remarks, I said that September or October, particularly August and September and October. There was some fuel crisis, the long-term PPA was getting difficult to service the customer because of the fuel prices. And that's the reason why there is some change in the portfolios. But I understand that the normalization of this aberration period is already over, and we can see the normalcy coming back. So we can come back to the normalcy with this development. Pankaj Ji, you would like to...

Sure, but I think we covered before. We actually [indiscernible] because of the fuel crisis and all that [indiscernible].

Okay. And one more question, sir. Earlier, we were planning to divest our stake in the 2 subsidiaries, PTC ENERGY and PTC India Financial Services. But I think earlier, we have taken a decision to not go ahead with divestment of PTC India Financial Services. So what is the update on the way forward and how are we looking at these 2 businesses. I think we had also take a decision to not contribute any further equity into these businesses. So but now I think there is some revival in your PTC Financial Services fortunes also. So how are we looking at these 2 businesses going forward? What is the strategic plan around that?

Sarvesh, let me answer your second part first. PTC Energy Limited. We are still booking on the divestment part. And as informed to you and the stock exchange, we are at the advanced stage of divestment with SJVN, which was informed to the Exchange also and to the investors and that process is on. Taking a little bit more time because of the various formalities to be done. The process is still on, and we are hopeful that this can be completed by this financial year. The second part was about the PTC Financial Services. You answered the question yourself. That company is doing better. And at the appropriate time, when we will get a good buyer, we can restart the process, but we have already intimated to the stock exchange. But currently, we have put a pause on that process.

Understood, sir. Sir, last question, if I may, I think we also saw the receivables going up on the balance sheet side. So I think with the some vibrancy coming to the power sector, we were sort of hoping that we will be able to realize the receivables at a faster pace. So how do you see that buildup happening? Do you see receivables actually coming down? Or do you see them going up? I mean, do you see any changes from your customers' point of view in terms of their financials, et cetera, given some surge in the power demand et cetera?

I'll ask the CFO to answer this first, and then I will request my colleague, VP Commercial also to supplement him what will be the future of receivables. We are confident that we have done business with these DISCOMS discount for the last 22 years. We have felt some pluses and minuses during some time, but we are hopeful that we will be managing this receivable to a range, which we have done in the past. Now I request CFO to please answer this.

Sarvesh as far as the PTC receivables are concerned, I did say that our -- we are recovering very fast and our efficiency has improved, and that I will support the key figures. You know that we are almost saying that we are growing at a pace of around 8%, 10% over the period, over the last 3 years. And you will see, that if I take a turnover of September '20, our sales was around INR 77 crores per day. For September '21, our sales has increased to INR 97 crores per day. In spite of that increase in the turnover value, our debtors from the last September has gone down. In September '20, our debtors were around INR 8, 049 crores. And for this September 21, and that was September 21, our data says around INR 7,864 crores. And we always say that we have -- when we have to look for the debtors, naturally because we are making payments to our creditors. So they will always talk about the exposure which PTC has taken on debtors. So it will deduct creditors out of the net working capital. Even in spite of the increase in the turnover, the net working capital is around only INR 2,200 crores in September '21. So in a way that we will call that the efficiency has improved as far PTC is concerned. And to give you an outlook on the industry receivables and the future, I request VP Commercial to...

Yes, Sarvesh, if you -- I mean I would like to supplement here that if you see our collection efficiency during this quarter, it has come down to 23 days, which was 31 days in Q1 last year. So despite all the challenges which we are facing due to pandemic, our efforts to get the money realized from the customers has increased. And as far as future is concerned, we are confident that we will be able to recover all the outstanding which are -- from the customers. And one more thing I would like to add here that some of the states have got their full quota of money from under the Aatmanirbhar package, but there are a fewer states, I would not like to name -- take their name here. But there are few states who are yet to receive their entire money, and we are hopeful a lot of money from that package will be coming to PTC.

We take the next question from the line of Rahul Soni from Smith...

Sir, my question is, again, on the receivable side. So we are continuously witnessing increase in receivables since financial year 2016. And now we are standing at INR 7,864 crore of receivables, against around INR 1,600 crores in 2015. So what actually is the cost for such a steep increase in the receivables? And where these money stuck and what kind of risk we do see towards these receivables? And particularly, I would like to know what is the update with the Andhra DISCOM, where we have some issues with PTC Energy Limited?

The first part, I will request the CFO to answer. Let me first, give you the confidence that the volume, what you -- you have mentioned about 2016 and what we are doing in 2021 is almost 2.5x. So with the volume increasing naturally the receivable will increase. This is a basic mathematical thing which I'm telling you. But other than this, there are reasons to be that we are keeping this well under control. CFO will give you the numbers and I will explain before I answer for the PTC Energy Limited Andhra issue.

Sir, as you are saying that comparing the receivable from '15 to '21. But you have to match apple to apple. You cannot match apple to orange. We will go through the [indiscernible] the company, right now I don't have the figures, my VP finance will take care of the figure. 1% turnover in year '15. Now presently in September '21, for the last year, actually, I'll say, we have done about INR 27,000 crores of turnover. But just the -- how much turnover we have done in the year '15. So if you see increase in the turnover and the increase in the debtor, which will be very minimal. And in when we -- I only say that we always see working capital in the number of days. And if you subtract the creditor out of it, we have our VP commercial has already explained, we have just deployed a 23 days of working capital. So naturally, as our company is growing, we have -- we did need fund for meeting the working capital requirement of the company. Maybe previously we maybe have 30 days working capital, but now we are reducing it to 23 days of working capital. And this is one thing just I wanted to also like to share with you sir that you are seeing the total debtor is around INR 7,800 crores as on September '21. But out of this, there is much on -- which is not due actually. So if you take out that debtors, what you, that is around INR 3,200 crores. So net recoverable debtor is only INR 4,700 crores. So I think that I have replied it.

[ Ajit Ji ], you will like to supplement...

If you see the total debtors, I mean, it is around 4,000 or 3000 [indiscernible].

Regarding the second part, what you asked is about the[ PIL ] Andhra issue. This was -- all the process under -- in high court, the sub judice, but the hearing is complete on 8th of November, the final hearing, I understand, was in the AP High Court. And the AP high Court has given them a direction that all the dues is for the interim period or the interim rate should be released within 3 weeks that is by end of November. And during the course of discussions in the court or hearing in the high court, we came to know that -- he said that this kind of a change in the tariff is not tenable by law. So I'm not very sure because I have not attended it, but I could sense that this kind of opinion emerge during the discussion. So we are hopeful that we will get the receivable from Andhra Pradesh, first entry part by end of November and most of it once the decision comes.

So currently, we are receiving half of the tariff, which is agreed as for that agreement.

Yes, 243 out of 440 -- 484.

Okay. And my second question, sir, is related to your Power Exchange. So currently, PTC holds a 22.62% stake in PSL. However, according to the power market regulations, trading member can't hold more than 5% stake in exchange. So what's your long-term thought process on the same, whether you are going to reduce or take up to 5% or below or you will continue in the same setup?

For the obvious reasons, we are holding the kind of a stake in that exchange, and we are one of the promoters. So as and when the final technicalities will come, we will address you and we'll give you the road map beyond that.

But sir, I like a major chunk of the volume in the IEX is coming from PTC India Limited. So once this PSL start its exchange, so will there be any diversion of volume from -- by PTC India from IEX to PSL?

Futuristic, let me not indulge any kind of thing. Whatever you are asking is we have some plans. And when -- as and when it will come, certainly, we'll share with the investors and the analysts.

The next question is from the line of Sandeep Raj from Oculus Capital Growth Fund.

Am I audible? -- Yes, sir, I just have one question regarding the new power exchange. So you being the promoter and trader, are there any kind of restrictions that you will have?

Let me just explain you once again. Till date, we have complied all the regulations, and we have all the plans to comply regulations wherever it will be operational. There is no conflict as of now. And as and when we will have different options on that, we'll come back to you.

The next question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from DAM Capital.

Am I audible?

Please go ahead.

And firstly on the PTC Energy stake sale, I think the -- we had concluded the stake sale somewhere in, I think, as the media reports it was supposed to get completed by -- it completed somewhere in the middle of February, and we are now in October, why there is a delay in finalizing the transaction?

Mohit, there is no -- I'll not say it is delayed. There are some formalities that you have -- doing the transaction with a public sector company. There are a lot of things which we need to be settled. We are already in the process and SJVN being a public sector undertaking, we have promoters from public sector. We have to keep all the formalities completed before we announce it to the investors and the analysts. But I can assure you that the process is on.

I think the launch of the new exchanges, I was not present in the initial part of the comment. Is the time line of launching the new exchange by the end of FY '22 is still intact? Or do -- is there some change?

There's no change. And in my initial remarks, I said that the testing and the platform -- testing and -- for the peripherals and the platform is already on. And I -- as on date, I can say that the progress is as expected. And I'm very hopeful that this exchange will start working before they financial year 2022.

Understood. And the last one. The REC and IEX, I think most like you indicated are getting in second half. How does that impact us?

Can you repeat what you said?

I mean the energy savings certificate, REC, are getting started in the second half, right? That should -- and really participating in both the revenues. Am I correct? I can say that?

You're right. And generally it is done in the last quarter of the year. So certainly, that will also be similar part of trend we will expect in this year.

One comment, if you can make on the long-term duration, which is supposed to start getting on exchanges, what could be our role and how we see it panning out. And what could be our margins? Does the margin gets impacted in that case?

Well, I mean, let me ask you one question. Are you talking about the future and derivative?

No, no, I am talking about -- which exchanges will launch at some of point.

So we are well prepared for that. I mean, if you see it in the past for all the products, what exchanges have launched, whether it is [ RTM ] or integrated [ DIY ] market or the long-duration contract, we have our team, which is already working on that, and we will be meeting all the requirements rather we will -- like in the past, we had always pioneered in handling those kind of new products. So I'm pretty sure that we will be comfortable in handling this project.

One more question, if I may squeeze in. Do we have any role to play in the DISCOM power reform, revamp the scheme, be it in consulting, be it in some kind, some form? Can you please comment on it?

From 3 states, rather one specific state, I can say they are requesting us and we are at the stage of negotiation with them for providing this kind of solution. But finally, when this will be converted into orders, I will inform you.

The next question is from the line of Siddharth Gupta from Voyager Capital.

Sir, congratulations on the good set of numbers that you posted. I have a couple of questions. Sir, firstly, could you shed some light as to why the PFS disinvestment was put on hold because up until the last quarter of the previous financial year, this was something that was still being considered. Was there a lack of investor interest? Or did the management feel that it would be better retain -- good for the company? And sir, the second question is with regard to how do we see -- how do we envisage the future of the company when the new exchange starts operationalizing because we are -- even though we are going to be the third exchange in the market, we might know, of course more advantage. We haven't been able -- there have been a couple of questions about a lot of our volume being given to IEX right now, would that be shifted. And I do understand that the management has continuously said that you would have plans and you would make them available to us, but a little more detail would actually help investors be more cautious and understanding of how the company is going to proceed.

Just I informed about the PFS disinvestment. We have already intimated to the stock exchanges that it is false. We never said that this is the final decision of the court and we are not going to take it up. And as you rightly said that the right kind of investment -- investors and the kind of expectations the company has with the new investor. Once we get that kind of response, we may restart the process. And as you can see, the performance of the company has improved in the last 2 quarters. So maybe that can be -- can tell you some story that why the [indiscernible] that it should be appropriate time when we can restart this process.

Sir, so I was referring to that very notification that the process has been put on hold. So I just wanted the Board to shed some light as to why it was put on hold. I do understand that you've not completely backed away from the process and neither you going ahead with it? But any particular reason why it's on standstill?

I explained in my second part that it has to be a best of option which should be available to the company. And that's the reason why when we will get the best of the auction, we may restart this business. If you see the entire notification, it mentions that.

The next question is from Devansh Nigotia.

Yes, sir. Can you hear me? Hello?

Yes, please go ahead.

Yes. Just a couple of questions. And sir, one is regarding the shift towards the short-term volumes from the long term that has taken place over the September quarter. So after that, how is that trend reversing? Or how are we seeing that mix changing, let's say, in the last 40, 45 days.

No, you are asking the [indiscernible] mix of short term, medium term, long-term, cross-border, all happens because of the market condition and the ecosystem, which we are -- in which we are working. So I inform you that there was some coal crisis during some period of the quarter. And it went on for some more days before the festival season. So we are expecting that the normalcy has come and the longer duration contracts are hitting scheduled better compared to what it was during that night. And once the normalcy will be there, the mix, what we have done in the past, we can come back to the normal scenario.

And in case of the integrated [ DIY ] market, we -- in our earlier commentary, we highlighted that it can have volume equivalent to RTM. So if you can just throw some more light and how we stand to benefit from that?

As you wanted is just another product in the exchange. So we have been paying that. Whatever products either on a bilateral or on the exchange platform is available, we enjoy a market share of not less than 40%. So in the RTM market, if you see the in the past trends, we have incurred that kind of market because our same set of customers are for all these products. So with our efforts, we ensure that we are the pioneer in the first to meet the customer requirement for any product either on bilateral front or in the exchange. So for any other products what we discussed, we will be doing the same set of things.

Okay. And in case of when we are highlighting that we have 25% market share on IEX. So that 25% would largely be both equally on buy-side and sell-side both? Or how would that be, our market share on IEX...

IEX has a special way of double counting. They treat any transaction are to be counted twice, sell side and buyer side. And that's a reason why you see 25%. Whereas in the bilateral market are -- when we keep that, we will say we have a market share of 50%, So that's accounting method. CFO can explain it more. But for us, our understanding -- the -- in the anonymous market, the market share is counted twice.

To clarify, it will be very nice. Should we interpret that our market share is 12.5% in IEX total volumes? Or how I should read that?

This is the technical issue. We can discuss it after the conference call.

Okay. And how -- what is our overall view on this implementation of MBED? And what -- how -- do we really see this shaping up because prima facie, it looks like a complicated process. So any light if you can just throw some light there?

MBED is something which will change the scheduling process. If it is to be seen in the right perspective, MBED is a kind of scheduling, right now all the beneficiaries of the state DISCOMS are procuring power through a method called, merit order dispatch. So MBED will be one which will be replacing the merit order dispatching for the DISCOM. And of course, this is a major shift in the way the power is being scheduled in the country. So of course, if you are going for a larger radical changes for scheduling of the power, it will face some difficult day, but once it is being decided by the policy makers and the decision makers in the country, I understand it will be implemented. And it will be -- if it is implemented, it is beneficial for all exchanges and for a player like PTC.

The next question is from the line of Danish Mistry from Investor First Advisors.

Can you hear me?

Yes, yes, we can hear you well, please.

Sorry for that. Sir, I had just a few questions. The first one was, sir, you mentioned that last year, the same quarter, there was some transaction. We don't want to know the transaction. But if you can just tell us in numbers, what was the kind of revenue or profit contribution? That would be helpful for us to actually compare the true performance of the company. Because otherwise, it looks like as the CFO has mentioned, it looks like it has fallen, but actually, the picture could be very different. If you could help us out with some numbers there, it would be great, sir. And second question, sir. Sorry. Sorry, please go ahead, sir.

Yes, no, please continue...

Sir, and the second question is that your sense on when do you think the SJVN transaction will get complete? I know you said that there are -- there is a process to it. But do you think the process will get over by March next year or 6 months, 9 months out. Just some sense on that, very broad, no problem, sir.

The first part, you simply asked me about the numbers out of this one-off transaction?

Yes, sir.

I'll not go into the deeper details of the transaction. But only thing I will tell you that you can take my words that because of the transaction and some of the dividend which we have not received for -- in this quarter from one of the subsidiary company, accounts for the numbers, which is a shortfall.

Understood, sir. Got it. shortfall on the profit side or on the revenue side?

On the PAT side I'm telling you.

Understood, sir. And the second one, sir, the -- just some very broad sense on the time line. Are we looking at 6 months, 12 months out?

We have kept our internal target to complete it by this financial year. That is by 31st March. We want these assets to be offered to the new owner. But you have seen in the past because it being public sector under crisis, there are some reasons to tell that we are hopeful, and we would like to do it completed, but one month here or there can always be there.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.

So let me tell you that this is the best time for power market to regain. Some of the regulatory changes which we were looking forward for years are -- you can see them in near future. Both for the trader as well as for the exchanges, which we are trying to play some role, we see a bright future. And we are trying to cope up all the requirements in terms of the innovative products as well as the technology requirement of the company. We are trying to create vertical to take care of the technology needs for such a business. And we are also looking very seriously for innovative team to create new products in the new space, which we are looking forward. So with this, I feel, if there is no other question, I would like to thank all the investors, analysts and the support staff for this conference. And we will be available for answering any question either on e-mail or you can fix some time so that we can give your answers better if we could not have answered during the conference call. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of PTC India. We thank you very much for your participation. You may now click on the exit meeting to disconnect. Thank you.