PTT Public Company Limited (PTT) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

[Interpreted] Good morning, analysts, fund managers and PTT staff. My name is [ Tarinee ] from PTT IR, welcome you to Analyst Meeting for second quarter and first half of 2025. We are meeting face-to-face once again so that you can interact with our executives. We will start with presentation of Q2 and first half results by the CEO and CFO. Then we are going to have Q&A session. May I introduce top executives who are here with us today, starting with CEO, Dr. Kongkrapan Intarajang, CEO and President; CFO, Khun Pattaralada Sa-Ngasang; and executives joining us during Q&A, starting with Khun Wuttikorn Stithit, COO, Upstream Petroleum and Gas Business Group; Khun Kris Imsang, COO, Downstream Petroleum Business Group; and Dr. Buranin Rattanasombat, COO, New Business and Sustainability. May I now give the floor to CEO and President, Dr. Kongkrapan.

Good morning, analysts. Today, we are going to update you on results, strategy and answering your questions. May I share with you performance highlights of the first half. And we have talked about the strategy. For nearly a year, we are going to update you on the achievements, milestones. Overall, things are proceeding as planned. We have just revised our strategy a couple of weeks ago and financial performance, strategy and outlook guidance. Now challenges, we know full well about geopolitical tensions, reciprocal tariffs, policy of the U.S., there have been questions. We -- how do I put it? We are not so obsessed with it. We plan on the basis of economic bleakness. Tariffs is an uncertainty factor amidst the volatility. In all, we plan our business based on global economic gloom, which is linked to the next thing, crude price is downward, oil prices up and down. We must weather them and make our company resilient. We reaffirm PTT Group strategy. So we have to strengthen existing businesses, upstream, downstream. However, against the background of volatility, trade war to make ourselves strong, using money wisely, this is important. Hence, EBITDA uplift is the low-risk initiative, but bringing about quick yields, synergy. So starting with P1, this is group-wide synergy on import/export. D1 likewise, products for domestic market. Now we have A1 asset monetization. I am going to update you. We also restructure EV business. What we're good at, we expand, and we exit on where partners are stronger. Life science is going well, we -- I will update you also. Neo Mobility, we exit for partners. To carry on life science, Innobic investment in Lotus remains the same, self-funding goal coming up with success story so that we gain financially. Financial excellence, the CFO's team, we have completed half of the treasury stock implementation. We have refinanced long-term plans, selling stocks to EGAT. We've converted shareholders' loan to -- we are going to issue debentures 2 tranches Thai baht bond -- of Thai baht bond. And this is raising fund, not substantial amount, but we are coming back to the Thai market. And part of the funds raised will strengthen SMEs, the fact that Thai SMEs are suffering consequences of trade war. Performance-wise, simply put, half year, there are special items. First half this year, 45; last year, 90-something also the whole year. So, so far, so good. We have divested. We have managed to preserve cash by THB 8 billion, and we shall use this amount to reinvest in low-risk strategic fit. And dividend last Q yield of 6% to 7% credit ratings, we talked about that a lot. CFO and I have gone on roadshows, and we can still maintain sound credit ratings for subsidiaries focusing on financial discipline. CFO will share details later. Our share price is stable. Still, we continue to reinforce our resilience. On the upper part of this slide show various prices. You are familiar with it. Just some highlights. Oil price is down, crude price is down half-on-half and gas price downward likewise. Petchem stream still not so good, oversupply and dampened demand, slow economic growth, businesses that use commodities are not healthy. On the lower part, so overview of the whole group from core businesses. So compared with last year, then PTT's own business in blue, consisting of a range of businesses, gas, trading, LNG; same as before, equivalent to last year, some ups and downs, within CFO will elaborate. Mainly gas and trading are comparable with last year, PTTEP from 28 to 20, so 8 billion is wiped out. Volume is good, but crude price is down. The rest, petchem, P&R, refineries from 3 billion. So that's reversed mainly due to stock loss in the amount of 5 billion on the back of less crude price. And the rest, others, more or less the same. Let's take a look at extra item. Last year, we benefited from THB 10 billion of extra items, i.e., Innobic stocks and LNG, we sold share to EGAT. However, this year, we have less extra items. First half, only THB 4 billion, mainly from Thaioil from [ CAC ] and GC. CFO will share details. So overall, half over half, so minus THB 8 billion from PTTEP stock loss up to THB 6 billion; extra item, THB 6 billion. So all totaled about THB 20 billion half-on-half. However, whole year comparison, we are giving you outlook. So overall, the whole year 90. So this year, we are already halfway of what we achieved last year. Now in comparison with peers, we try to be as relevant as possible. Some businesses are sort of combination. No like-for-like is possible, but the closest conglomerate, to the left, global energy conglomerate, we are less than last year by about 16%. 3 global conglomerates, we cannot name. you can ask me off the record, mostly decreased depending on respective portfolios in terms of weighting of their upstream, downstream, but overall downward in oil refinery retail. This is domestic pure-play refineries like Thaioil. By comparison, some decrease, but still better or minus refineries versus peers, slightly down. Again, CFO will explain on mobility, lifestyle segment. Petchems, domestically, GC, IRPC and 2 others, mostly decreased in performance. I would like to give you highlights of strategy. Our vision stays the same. We have to be strong with Thai society and grow sustainably. This slide is super important. Our mission is to balance investors, state, environment. The most important elements, we have to balance our energy security, which comes hand in hand with affordability. Cheap or expensive is relative. Cheap meaning we subsidize. Money must come from somewhere to subsidize. Expensive means we are inefficient. Thailand imports 90% of crude, 50% of gas. Our duty is to ensure appropriate pricing. But again, it has to be balanced against sustainability. We will do what we are good at, our expertise. We still need natural gas, fossil fuel; at the same time, cutting emissions, reducing emissions. So we cannot go full-blown expensive and clean energy. So just for reference, we enhance competitiveness, generate growth with sustainability as pillar. Now this slide, just briefly to reaffirm PTT Group strategy, looking at five factors above that still continue, geopolitics, energy transition landscape change, trade war, tariffs pressure, looming recession; we revisit alongside executives and Board. Managing uncertainties require more agility and more nuance. We have a war room. And what is good, we have to accelerate EBITDA uplift, synergy, asset monetization, low risk, low-hanging fruit. So we are speeding these up and critically strengthening financial health. We will come back to explain more on these points. Upstream, upper part, PTT has wide-ranging businesses. Upstream, domestic gas supply must increase, must be secured, Still, gas is the cheapest, most accessible, cheaper than LNG. That's our core duty and overseas growth of PTTEP costs. Our gas business' two issues, energy security, reliability and collaboration with the state sector. For power, two issues. Domestically, we must be strong, whereas we seek renewables growth opportunities outside Thailand. So LNG, until now, Thailand is about procuring from overseas for domestic use. PTT sets the target of LNG growth, 10 million tonnes and then 15 million by 2035. It's not just in country procurement, we have to be world-level LNG player with different nodes. So it's portfolio -- LNG portfolio with scale. So progress, PTT has planned expanding offshore, onshore, Arthit, Sinphuhorm & MTJDA and acquiring new block in Algeria LNG. First half, we achieved 3 million tonnes. And we signed letter of intent with Alaska not to invest, but as offtaker. Interesting price, and this is risk diversification aligned with our LNG -- global LNG player aspiration. Downstream, P&R, EBITDA uplift, asset monetization, reshaping portfolio, we will have strong strategic partner. There will be update. Trading, mobility, lifestyle, progress; we have dialogued at advanced stage with partners. By year-end, we will shortlist them, feed product with synergy value in Thailand and overseas. First half, we achieved THB 1 billion. Other, Virtual Bank, we secured a license. And next, non-hydrocarbon progress has been made. EV charging with OR, we are expanding our footprint. And we have restructured. We have exited some lifestyle as planned, self-funding in [ Innobic ]. We have progresses to share. Charging, 3,000 charge points installed in the first half. And we exit dealership, which is noncore. Innobic has done shareholding restructure. I can talk about it now. CFO will explain later. Now on the sustainability front, it's business opportunity as well for PTT Group. Sustainability is internalized. We've expanded gas, hydrocarbon and et cetera, for energy security while generating profit. At the same time, we must decarbonize and integrated as business. Going forward, we can generate revenue. Now our goals are clear. We have clear numbers, 15% GHG reduction in 2035; net zero, 2050. Lots of questions on whether carbon taxes will not be materialized. Any project has to be feasible economically, signpost-driven, meaning when costs change, we have to be flexible. Now master plan is complete. Q3, we will have a KM session with analysts. CCS in Thailand, definitely, we will do it. This is Eastern Thailand CCS project, but we will start with, [ I think ], sandbox, already approved by PTTEP Board. Hydrogen already progressing. So this slide summarizes the fact that we do things close to us due to volatility. Big investment is no longer the mode of the day. So we do restructuring, nonhydrocarbon, D1 domestic synergy. So this slide captures all the salient points. The blue are, well, short-term, medium-term, long-term goals, Petroleum Group. So all these are EBITDA numbers, 3 billion uplift; petchem 30, nearly 3 billion. Let's take a look at short-term target this year. We want to achieve 700, half year already half THB 350 million. MissionX is EBITDA uplift across the group, deploying digitalization, smart plant, improving internal business process and large -- the overall goal of THB 30 billion EBITDA uplift in 2027, PTT THB 10 billion and group-wide THB 20 billion. So far, THB 10 billion, we have achieved halfway THB 4.7 billion. And surely, we will keep you analysts posted. So we are committed to what we announced. Axis is digital transformation on AI and human capital cloud strategy. Again, we need numbers as reference. So the goal, THB 10 billion, we just start THB 200 million halfway, we have achieved THB 60 million. So clear short-term target. And lower side of the screen are add-ons. Due to volatility, we shall execute cost saving cash; OpEx saving, PTT group-wide, THB 10 billion. Last round, we said THB 10 billion, CFO want 10 billion plus, plus. We got THB 4 billion, I think, on track. Asset monetization must be completed this year. Cash target of about THB 38 billion this year and THB 77 billion next year. So doing a lot short term. Medium term, we have the goal, reshape P&R portfolio. We have shortlisted partners. Next year, we shall finalize. LNG, I must explain that we set volume target 10 million and 15 million tonnes per annum. So such volume will allow us to trade -- generate profit and mitigate risk. Long-term, CCS this year, Arthit 1 million tonne to validate technology, unlock regulations and FID this year; 2028 COD, 1 million tonne per annum. Eastern CCS Hub 2034, so that is of scale, 5 million tonnes. Hydrogen, looking at cost curve, CCS is cheaper, but we must do it in parallel after roadmap, maybe investing outside first. Now highlights of numbers as reference for you. To the left, what we do, mainly optimization of petchem refineries; inbound, outbound feedstock exports. This year target is THB 3.6 billion, we have already achieved THB 2 billion. D1, I already touched on it. EBITDA THB 695 million to the left, not numbers out of the blue. What we do in Thailand, Indochina, optimization is on supply chain, logistics market optimization and inventory. So lots of money in there. Now this slide, MissionX is EBITDA uplift; to the right, digital transformation. Both intersect. So THB 30 billion EBITDA uplift goal; digital transformation, THB 12 billion. They are -- partially intersect, so net THD 37 billion. So THB 42 billion minus TWD 37 billion, intersectionality of THB 5 billion. So many things we have to work on, for example, digital transformation, use -- business use cases will generate profits. The green part is most important. PTT has invested a lot. There might be some overlap. We can no longer afford doing things separately, we must be strong as a group. So we synergize AI infrastructure, cloud strategy. In conclusion, whatever capital intensive, the whole group will invest together so that we have the scale to bargain. However, use case specific subsidiaries have autonomy to do it. For example, PTTEP, there's submarine, which require a different sort of AI. They can do it separately. So the target is synergy. We have plan regarding human resources, digital factory, people with digital scale, we shall [ upskill ] certain number within certain time frames. So this is MissionX that I had previously explained. But in details, the whole group, we target THB 30 billion for PTT, mainly from gas and trading and some procurement. But for all the flagships, they would contribute THB 20 billion. But they would have the case differently, but they committed to the target. For digital transformation, this is just for your reference, but we would focus in the middle; PTT would look after cloud, data, and they would support us to execute our AI technology to save cost. Genesis, many have a question about this. In principle, we would like to optimize our P&R portfolio, refinery and petchem plants. We want all three flagships to strengthen, while there is landscape change, we would say there's still a few more years for us where margin is still strong. But third of all, we need to have a long-term strategic partners who bring in values. And this is very important because we don't have the problem of the cash shortage, but it's about how to consolidate in our industry. Major players in the world, in Southeast Asia, southeast Asia is quite a big market. So you don't have to invest from scratch. So you can join hands and do something together. And now we are evaluating about leaders in each facet, look into how we can cooperate and synergize. But last but not least, PTT is still very strong. It remains controlling stakes in all flagships. For the progress, we would be shortlisted at the end of the year and then finalize everything within next year. LNG value chain, we target 10 million and 15 million tonnes per year, excluding the long-term contract importing into Thailand, 5 million to 6 million. So this is a principle that we do it ourselves and also commission someone to help us. We have our expertise in trading, and we have a lot of assets on hand. So it's inevitable that we should be here and reap more benefit. Right here are the key success factors. We need to have supply, which is of large scale. If without any more investment and we can secure our supply, then it's the best. But if not, we have to be very careful in our investment when we have enough supply. At the same time, we need to diverse our sources from low East -- from low-cost area like Malaysia, in the Middle East. So we need to diverse our sources to be able to swap to have the most optimum price. But our contract, it should be flexible enough not to fix the destination. And we have a lot of indexes like JKM, Japan, Korea, Henry Hub from the U.S. or linked with rent in Europe. So we need to secure our supply in a flexible way. So this is our key success factors. In the middle, we have the know-how for optimization and risk management. And for the demand side, we have CLMV in China. So we have to manage our demand on the other hand. Asset monetization, this is also as important, and it would happen concretely in Q3 and Q4. We have revisited our objectives to enhance profitability to increase asset utilization, unlock all the synergy with our existing assets. Some are in PTT Group, and we want to optimize it, bundle it together and then manage with a single entity to increase asset utilization and optimization. Also, we would like to unlock our cash and to accelerate decarbonization capability with CCS, CO2. Before it comes down under the sea, we need to look after our pipeline and our storage. Our target is to synergize and to optimize to unlock our cash, THB 100 billion by 2026. ROIC, we need to improve it by 5% to 10%. And also to maintain a solid credit rating standings, this is quite important, and CFO will share more on this afterwards. We split it into two targets, hydrocarbon and non-hydrocarbon. We met with major fundraisers, and they're quite happy with PTT Group. Leading companies started to do capital reserve or exiting the noncore business. For the timeline, Q1, we completed Horizon Plus, we got THB 4 billion and THB 2.4 billion from EV business. In Q2, we have about THB 1 billion more. Q3, there would be Neo Mobility, vehicle dealer, Lotus; EV, infrastructure, power. So we'll get more cash from these. And next year, we would continue our EV business, power and Genesis, which is petchem projects. For the awards and recognition, we are still recognized very well, both domestically and globally among investor community. So I would give the mic to CFO.

Now, thank you, the CEO. So I'm going to touch upon the performance and the policies. So this one is the top line and the bottom line. Top line EBITDA would be down according to the crude oil price. For the spread, GRM and petrochemical is downward slightly, and this is usual. What is good is that for the P&L for the first half, THB 44 billion, multiplied by 2, it's around THB 90 billion. So THB 44.8 billion, this is the normal items. There are some nonrecurring items, which I will explain later. Explaining -- excluding nonrecurring, half of that is stock loss and the other half is softened spread. Net NI, the far right, the portion from upstream and E&P is still quite significant, 43%. And for the gas, which is the major entity, that is 18%. P&R is down a little bit, but in many segments, helped contribute to the group. They are diversified enough in order to maintain our net income to THB 44.8 billion. First half this year and last year, half-on-half, this is the reflection of the softened crude oil price, economic slowdown despite Thai baht appreciation. Half year last year, you would see that net income is down by 30%. But last year, THB 64 billion is comprised of many nonrecurring items like the divestment in Europe or partnership of 50% with EGAT. So nonrecurring item is about THB 10 billion. Excluded that, that's about THB 54 billion. And this year, it's about THB 44 billion, excluding extra items, that's around THB 40 billion. So breaking down by segment, the left and the right, E&P is down a little bit, THB 28 billion to THB 20 billion, according to the soften gas and crude oil price. PTT, the blue portion, it's quite stable. This means PTT headquarter, gas business and trading business. We did cost control and also baht appreciation. But if you look at baht appreciation for the whole group, it is resulting from our natural hedge because originally, it is linked to USD and it is offset with transportation gain. By segment, you would see that the blue portion, PTT, it is quite stable. What is better off is oil, retail. Last year, there were many negative factors. But this year, it is better off. So it increased from THB 4 billion to THB 5 billion. Petchem and refinery, P&R, it is still difficult. But if you look at major factor, the red one is the negative factor, which is coming from two major components. The first one is negative margin because of a narrower spread and stock loss. First half of last year, we had stock gain. But for this year, it's stock loss. But still it's half year, and now we are in negative about THB 5 billion. For OpEx, the green one, we try to save our costs in all circumstances. MissionX also helped contribute. For budgeting cost control against the budget, we set it at zero growth budget. If it is not necessary activities, we would like to maintain the self-owned figures through all the initiatives like MissionX or digital transformation exist. So we hope that it would contribute more in the second half. And the CEO has just mentioned that probably it's going to be much more than THB 10 billion that we targeted. For DD&A, it's down. Other income, this is the extra items, which is the disparity of around THB 10 billion. FX derivatives, last year, it's loss. But this year, it's gain. So that's around THB 22 billion. And this year, we have FX gain. And part of that is because of a slower margin when it's converted to P&L. So when baht appreciate around THB 3 against U.S. dollars, so that's equal to the crude oil price weakened by USD 2 or USD 3. So many strategies like diversification of our investment, natural hedging scheme and cost control, so we look after investment management, like how much stake we should acquire and hold, what about impairment? That's how we manage it effectively. And Khun Buranin can give us more information about our declaration of how we invest. Like life science, we don't have the competency to leave the entity for growth. So probably, we should divest it somehow, and we have to make decision to restructure. We don't have to hold 38%, we can come down to 36%. And then they can manage independently under our governance. Then they still can grow, and they can self-fund their balance sheet by themselves. So we just declared that to the Stock Exchange of Thailand in June. So you would see how we manage and execute our acquisition, the hold of our stake. So we focus on this from the end of last year until this year. Now to each sector. Gas, upper left and lower left reflects the gas -- world gas price, which is linked to LNG and then linked to petrochemical prices. So it's softened. Volume-wise, to the right, the first-half volume of LNG is down to 3,800. With more new shippers who can import LNG, the impact is not much. If we quantify the first half, it's around THB 500 million. But synergy with all those new shippers, we would like to make sure that import of LNG into Thailand is competitive enough. For U-rate down here, we try to maintain the rate of our GSP so that the operation is getting better from 85% to 97% this year. Gas EBITDA to the right, it's down by 16% half-on-half. And mainly, it's because of our JV with EGAT by 50%. Last year, it's 100%. And this year, it is 50%. So EBITDA is down accordingly. But for TSO, it's quite stable, the business nature is stable enough. For GSP for the price, selling price of GSP is pressured with many things like spot LNG price and petchem price, which is our formula calculated. And for S&T, it should be down, but only slightly because we have the shortfall reflected in 2024. Trading business because we earn from the margin, if the oil price is high, with our margin percentage, it would be good for us. But when the sales volume is down, our margin is down as well. And also, we face the mark-to-market losses. Part of it is hedged, but still, we face the loss. But it can come back in Q3 and Q4. So from 52, it is down to 2.8. It would be conservative in the first half, but it will come back in the second half, we expect. For the financial position of the whole group, asset is down by 4%, reflected the crude oil price. And some of the companies is depleted every year. So that's the DD&A. And for the last quarter, Thaioil claimed back the bank guarantee, and that's about THB 10 billion. It is not about the shrinkage of the growth, but it's the extra items. For cash on hand, we see THB 451 [ billion ] down to THB 410 billion. So people might have the question like, "Well, you have a lot of cash on hand and then you just keep it on hand. What about investment?" Well, you can refer it to PTTEP for the first half of this year. So cash is down in line with the investment. But still, if we have cash on hand about THB 400 billion, still that's good enough. But we try to balance in all the stakeholder. At first, you have a lot of cash to be ready to invest prudently. To liabilities and equity, key financial ratios is up a little bit from 1.65 to 1.89 due to softened EBITDA. If EBITDA is the same, it would still be at the same level. But anyway, we are under the threshold of 2. And all the credit ratings is affirmed equivalent to Thailand's ratings. In case of Moody's, Baa1; and S&P BBB+. It is the negative outlook though, but that's in line with national ratings. But for PTT and PTTEP, we still maintain the same level as national ratings. For all the subsidiaries, our downstream, we don't want to be lower than investment grade, the BBB+. But we know how to defend it, and we can do it this year. So we have done many initiatives, and that would be reflected in the second half. So all of the company would be -- we would try to maintain it to the investment grade. I forgot, cash may be down due to commitment to pay dividend, THB 2.1 per share. Interim last year, THB 0.8 plus. So [ auto ] THB 2.1. Now if you're going to ask about interim dividend this year, please ask the CEO. Let's take a look at cash flows, THB 450 billion. As I said, we spent it on investment, and some within the group use it to repay loans and dividend payment, i.e., distribution of cash in hand appropriately. And we are still strong financially, and recipients of distributed proceeds are happy and confident just about right. So operating cash flows is high. Actually, priority is for investment 37 to the right. So investment 65, of which THB 35 is PTTEP and THB 10 billion for CFP project of Thaioil. And it's 37 because there's positive, i.e., dividend receipt from subsidiaries. Short term, long term, so it's about transfer, interconnected transactions and the lower parts. We use financing to pay a lot for financing costs, starting with repayment of short-term and prepayment of long-term loans, THB 60 billion. So usually, repayments [ 10 ], but all the subsidiaries with high financing costs, they prepay. So apologies for the banks that they prepay just to keep them financially strong to manage high interest rates. Or the case of bond buyback for GC or Thaioil last year, GC got THB 9 billion and 12% discount. And this year, a couple of tranches as well. Thaioil this year has done the same thing with proceeds of THB 1 billion in the first half. So this is seeking opportunities for cost cutting and to maintain investment-grade ratings. Dividends payment, 47, interest THB 18 billion; treasury stock, half already of 400. So the other half to go, we are reflecting how to proceed feedback from investors. Thank you for encouragement from investors and -- who seem to approve our decision. This is about managing excess cash and signaling confidence in our stock. And we have -- PTT itself has no major investment project, and subsidiaries have to manage. And so treasury stock answers the question. It's probably stable because of fundamentals or whatever factors. We are quite satisfied about such undertaking. So we will continue until completion of the treasury stock project strategy just to demonstrate that we support the strategy of the whole group. So you heard about P1, A1. Allow me to come up with F1 finance one, meaning consolidation of finance, all CFOs, let's say, we brainstorm together, we dialogue regularly to maintain to keep our house strong through four measures: budgeting control, the target of 10 billion plus, plus. Second, supporting asset-light and monetization. It's about evaluation, improvement of ROIC, seeking financing cost. So banks, please support PTT's group funding efforts from now on to acquire assets with steady revenue streams. And the flagships will have the wherewithal to fix their own houses. Portfolio reshuffle. We have to go full speed in valuation, risk assessment and financial adviser engagement. I think we have used all FAs available. There will be more to come. And finally, preparing funding, liquidity. We have no problem at all virtually all across the group. We are talking more about top-quality funding. And so these are steps for F1. The intention is to improve ROIC and decrease WACC and optimize expectations of all financial stakeholders. So first step and foremost, cost control. So we look at -- so we operate sort of group-wide cost centers. So the goal of 10 billion plus, plus. So every month or nearly weekly reporting to the Board of Directors, very close monitoring. And on our part, not just monitoring we use, we ask ourselves what interest we can -- how we can manage. For example, savings, how to gain the most to enhance yield and et cetera. Second -- so we managed to save to date of 47 through these. Second, asset-light and monetization, while awaiting A1, what we do immediately is to review. For example, selling 50% of PELNG, so JV portion, we have to refinance shareholder loan. So we seek external loans from the bank, THB 17 million for Phase 1, Phase 2, upcoming 1.3. So Phase 1 done and dusted, very, very good, less than 3% interest, we secured, term -- good term. So THB 1.3 billion. So with partnership, we can make ourselves lighter and coming up with competitive financing costs commensurate with credit rating. So MissionX, we are verification agent. The EBITDA uplift, we want to see bottom line, we don't just want to hear ideas. We call it -- so we push for actions. To the right, Lotus, apart from LOTUS and Innobic that we already notified the market on self-funding growth that we will gradually execute the plan. Non-hydrocarbons, we exit. That is why exiting JV of Neo Mobility done and dusted in July. It will show up in Q3 financial statements. And lastly, liquidity. It doesn't mean we have liquidity crunch, it's about securing good-quality and satisfying stakeholders, starting with plan to issue back bond. I am very, very happy with the feedback to date. It seems that we have to expand the size. So very delighted. Still, yields the best we can offer. Final coupon announced yesterday, 3 years young [ saver ]. So if you are under 45, you can -- you are entitled to buy young [ saver ] bonds. So 3 years, 2.1%. The rest for general public, 7 years, 2.5%. So aligned with PTT's credit, TP might bring about lower risk. But people are eager to subscribe to our bond, and we have been absent from the market for a very long time. So we decided to go ahead with that. Now extended trade credit or ETC, PTT doesn't give money, but on the strength of our balance sheet, sound [ DE ]. So we allow ETC from 30 days to 60 days, 90 days and et cetera. So cash will come back to PTT just the same. But how we tend to flagship, the consolidated sheets will be booked as bank loan. So just you see liabilities higher, we extended. In terms of value, total facility is the amount of THB 162 billion for subsidiaries that need this for them to manage that portfolio, so cheaper than what they borrow on their own. It doesn't affect. We use headrooms in the balance sheet, and this is what credit rating agencies like. They always say they want to see A1 happening within the group. Finally, just slightly opening up, CEO will share further in subsequent quarters. In fact, there are plenty of alternative financing that we have never tried doing transactions with them, different funds that might have low risk or no-risk instruments. There are ways to secure funding and partnership at the same time to realize the strategy. So the finance team is exploring alternative financing. We are going full speed on that. So that's all for me.