Qoria Limited (QOR) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us for our September quarter update, and I'll hand over to Tim to kick us off.

Great. Thanks, Ben. I'm just admitting a few more people. All right. I'll let you go. Okay. Look, thanks, everyone, for joining us. First quarter of the financial year and a good one. I'll just quickly go through the highlights, and then we'll go through the kind of operational results, and then I'll hand over to Ben to go through the financial results. As always, we have Crispin Swan, our COO, who looks after the K-12 business on the call as well and able to answer questions. So, look, the highlights are very, very strong. We kind of beat all metrics in the first quarter of the year. In particular, the highlight was cash collections coming in at $46.3 million, which is 23% up on last year's Q1. We've guided the market to a 20% increased PCP on this half's cash collections. And obviously, we've been set up well there. ARR growth is very strong. K-12 business. We have gone through what was a massive sales period June last year, and Crispin's team have done an outstanding job, not only selling new logos, but we're seeing signs of a real uptick in cross and upsells, which is really important for the future of this business. We'll be talking a lot more about that in coming quarters about our cross-sell journey, products per customer metrics like that. You'll hear a lot more about that from us soon. And -- but again, a highlight, which we've talked about for a couple of quarters now is Qustodio. Now we're putting a little bit more money into that business. It is taking off with ARR growth across the group of 25% year-on-year, but the Qustodio business growing at 33% on an annualized basis. Generated free cash flow of nearly $12 million, which is 50% up on last year. And we are not only reiterating the guidance that we provided last quarter, but we've now upgraded our revenue guidance to $145 million. So, yes, a fantastic start to the year. Let's go through it in a little bit more detail. I think it's again worthwhile highlighting what we do. We are making not just good financial results, but we are literally impacting lives of communities across the globe, 32,000 schools, 8 million parents help -- sorry, rely on us to look after 27 million kids. More kids are on our platforms than there are Australians in the world. And we make life-saving interventions every couple of hours. And so everyone who's an investor in our business and everyone who's an employee in this business. Thank you so much for your contribution. From a kind of key metrics perspective, financial metrics, nearly touching on $150 million of ARR, I think that today. Cash receipts, $46.3 million, which is higher than I think most analysts expected, generating -- delivering for us $12 million of free cash flow. We ended the quarter with $24 million of cash and net debt comfortably under $30 million. And we just put a highlight here as well with the pipeline being largely emptied at the end of June, Crispin's marketing and sales teams have done an outstanding job of rebuilding that and in fact, have generated a record pipeline. I'll talk more about that in a moment. All segments of our business are growing really well, except for maybe the U.K., but we've spoken about a few times. The U.K. will have access to all of our products by starting in March with the kind of launch of the Qoria platform, but by the middle of the year, most of the -- what we know is the U.S. products or the Linewize products will be sold in the U.K. So very excited about the back end of next year in the U.K. and beyond being a growth market. But outside of that, all comfortably north of 20%. And Qustodio last 12 months, 26%, but in the last quarter, they're growing on an annualized basis 33%. So U.S. is unquestionably the dominant part of our revenue. And if you include half of Qustodio revenue, which is U.S. denominated, that's comfortably north of half of our revenue now is denominated in U.S. dollars. This is probably a clearer view of the contribution to our ARR growth. We had a little bit of volatility through the quarter, but over the quarter, it only negatively impacted ARR a little bit. The main contribution is new logos in K-12. Existing customers nearly caught up with new logo growth, so cross-sell and upsells nearly caught up with new logos in K-12 had a bit of churn. I think Ben might touch on this, but we've decided to focus the Octopus business on our new Insights product. And so we've brought forward some churn in that business with some dedicated products. So that's all very well managed, still comfortably around the 5% or less churn in the K-12 business and Qustodio added $2.4 million, which is a massive increase on where they were last year. I'll touch on that in a second. This chart shows -- I love this chart. What's showing is the cash collections that we deliver each quarter over the last four years. And you can see the clear cycles in our invoicing and cash collections. But you can most importantly see step change in our -- essentially the revenue invoicing and collections in our business every year. So, I mean, I think it's a fantastic graph. And so you would expect our Q2 December order collections to be significantly above the $30 million that you've got here. And really, that's what we're trying to guide to the market with these charts. So in the K-12 business, as I said, a great contribution from K-12, not only in new logos, which is really in our DNA, that hunter mentality, but also Crispin's team is getting much, much better at cross-selling our expanding -- ever-expanding range of products. I think last year, correct me if I'm wrong, Crispin, it was something like 20% to 25% of new business was from cross-sells. And yes, this year, we're comfortably expecting that to be 30% or more. So very excited about that. All regions contributing, but in particular, Australia is on fire, and we're actually entering Australia's key selling period, Australia and New Zealand's key selling period, which is the December quarter. So cross-sell and upsell was a highlight for the quarter. a massive reseller channel in the U.S. called CDW, which has recently signed on, awarded us as their education partner of 2025, which is a very unexpected but a very significant win by our U.S. organization. We finalized plans to launch the Qoria capability into the U.K. As I said before, that will be launching beginning in March through the year. I touched on Australia, the POC pipeline is enormous, and we're doing amazing things in New Zealand. I touched on that in the last quarter, but I'm sure we'll follow up on that in the coming quarters. The success of that New Zealand team is tremendous. I would highlight the average sales price, which is essentially the average order value. So the kind of the dollar -- Australian dollar value of our average order, you see that's come down, and that's not untypical. September quarter isn't the biggest selling period in the U.S. it's typically that Q4. And so that's nothing to be concerned with. You'll see that following that typical cycle again through the year. But all in all, we're feeling very, very confident of doing materially better on what was a record year last year. We'll be doing materially better than that this current financial year. In fact, Crispin, he will be answering questions. And Crispin I was just in Utah with the U.S. team who are just absolute professionals and are all set up for success this year. So, a lot of eyes, I'm really pleased with this now and Qustodio. I think the market is finally starting to get to grips with the opportunity of this business. We've been restraining it somewhat through, I guess, lack of access to capital, but now the business -- our business has turned to profit and cash generation, we're chipping away. And we're not talking about big dollars we're maybe talking about $3 million or $4 million of extra marketing spend over the year, and it's instantaneously generating growth. The one that I'm really excited about is the subscriber growth chart on the bottom left. You're seeing a very, very substantial uptick on a PCP basis and subscriber growth. And on a net ARR growth period, I mean, something like a 60% increase PCP on ARR growth in that quarter. I mean that's extraordinary from what is quite a modest increase in investment in that business. And on the top chart, obviously, that's translating into ARR over that business, a very, very big jump in that September quarter. And yes, September is the start of back-to-school in the U.S. but we enjoy a lot more of that plus the key retail periods through Christmas, Black Fridays and Christmas are key kind of technology procurement time frames in retail. So very excited about what Victoria and the Qustodio business are going to deliver in this coming quarter. Look, one little highlight is the community, so the B2B2C proposition in the U.S. is unquestionably starting to contribute to brand building and the kind of moderation of our cost to acquire in that business. And we've now got 200,000 accounts have been referred from that business. And so that's, in my view, a stellar success. But overall, the metrics in this business are proven tremendous. So looking forward to talk to the market more about that in January. Now all of that good growth and discipline in costs is delivering profitability, profitable growth, profitability and dropping to the bottom line. Our fixed cost as a percentage of ARR is consistently coming down. I might add, again, Ben Jenkins, our CFO, will probably touch on this in a moment, the July, August period, we do have a lot of annual subscriptions, and we do have pay reviews coming through. So there was a jump, but you should see that flatten out over the year. And so the fixed cost as a percentage of ARR should be falling through the quarter -- through this financial year. So all good there. We're definitely on plan in terms of costs and contribution. Nothing much has changed here in our SaaS metrics. Marketing efficiency is still a standout for our business for every dollar that we spend, we get $8 of ARR, essentially no bad debts and 25% ARR growth. So, all looking good there. And then we've already touched on this, our weighted pipeline has returned. So our pipeline has returned. Sales and marketing teams have been sending out the e-mails and hitting their phones and building that pipe into what's -- the key selling period in the U.K., as everyone knows, is the March period in the June period for the U.S. So we're getting prepared for that. So a really good spot to shoot much higher than we did last year. was very quick 10 or 11 minutes and everyone is busy. So I might just now hand over to Ben before we have questions.

Thanks, Tim. I probably won't spend too much time on this slide because I think a lot of this has been covered upfront. So we'll jump into the next one and get into a little bit more detail on the costs within the business. Obviously, the cash collections have been touched on. It's a good result, up 23%, strong collection period, as we've touched on before. Direct costs are largely growth related. There's a little bit of FX impact in there. But as we've talked about previously, they're not linear connected to revenue. So we'll continue to grow at a much smaller rate than revenue goes, which helped that operating leverage that we've talked about. Marketing costs have obviously increased with the investment in Qustodio, but it's really performing. So we can see the results there, and it's giving us confidence in those growth targets and the revenue numbers moving into the rest of the financial year. Staff cost is probably the main one to touch on. The obvious first point is Octopus BI wasn't part of the business September quarter last year. So there's around about $250,000 worth of cost there that needs to be normalized for a like-for-like comparison. The other large impact was some chunky redundancy costs in the quarter of about $450,000 and then FX impact of $750,000, which is largely out of the Spanish and U.K. businesses with the depreciating against those, which makes the period comparison a little bit out of whack. So that's about $750,000 there. So take those bits out and the wage growth is CPI a little bit, which is a few growth heads to support the growth in the business, but again, growing at a much, much lower rate than top line and will continue in that form. As Tim touched on earlier, not expecting another big jump. It should start to flatten out from this point onwards. The other one that's pleasing is, and we've talked about this a little bit before is the effort that's gone into hardware costs and the efficiency there. So we've added significant ARR in the education business over the last six months and the amount of hardware that we've actually -- amount we actually spent on hardware is significantly down, which is a great outcome. In theory, that should increase with revenue, but the team has done a great job of being more efficient in the way they purchase and install hardware. So that's a good outcome. And fixed other is up a little bit, but it's small numbers overall in the grand scheme of things. And again, we'll continue to remain largely flat and increase that leverage that the business is starting to show. So that's probably the main things that I want to touch on, Tim, so we can probably jump to questions.

Yes, good. Okay. Yes, over to you mate.

All right. Lindsay. Let me sort out my phones. Lindsay, you should be able to turn your microphone unmute.

So the first question is on the waterfall chart you put in, I think it's Slide 7. Like understanding that Q1 is not seasonally the strongest quarter for the education business. But even if I go back and have a look at like the PCP, like Q1 last year, it looked like the K-12 new was about $3 million, that's going to come down. K-12 existing was like $2 million that's come down. So like in the conversations that we had this morning, there's a bit of a narrative that like the consumer business is kind of saved this quarter and maybe the education business is softening. Like could you just either bless that logic or just shuts down for us and explain kind of what's happened, please?

Yes, I wouldn't say that. Crispin, do you want to add some color?

Yes. I mean the strength in the June quarter, we brought forward some deals that were expected to close in the September quarter. I would say that's probably the biggest rationale here. But, yes, I mean, the U.S. alone generated $5 million of pipe this quarter, Lindsay. The cross-sell -- and the upsell story is incredibly strong. There was a large deal also that is still in play that was expected to close last quarter, which -- so I'm not all personally concerned. I don't know, Tim, if you had anything else to add to that, but no, it's business as usual.

To jump in with a little bit of detail behind it as well, Lindsay, we're probably done ourselves a disservice in some ways by adding a decimal point at the request of a few investors. So, last year, the cross-sell upsell in the September quarter was $1.6 million, but it rounds to 2, not to 1 when you're not using a decimal point. And then in new business, it was just over $2.5 million. So, again, rounds to 3 rather than rounding down to 2. So it's not actually that different year-on-year when you put another decimal place in there.

Okay. Very good. No, I've been using like a chart reading software in the past. So I had kind of those numbers, but that's good. That's helpful. Just on consumer. So, Tim, you're obviously pretty impressed with the consumer like new user growth because I think like that your chart you put in that's been pretty flat and like most of the growth has been pricing. So new users is good. Maybe the other piece of consumer is like the churn, like a lot of new users might see like an uptick in churn in the consumer business. Like are you seeing anything there? And maybe just talk about churn in the consumer business as a whole because like that's just structurally pretty high, I think. Like is there anything you're doing there to bring that down?

Yes. So when we merged with Qustodio in 2022, the average churn over the 12 months, remember, we merged, I think, August, September. And that period, so we've just gone through that now is the key churn period for that business because they're doing annual subscription. So the key selling period is key churn period. churn back then was 38%. At the moment, it's comfortably under 30%. And over the course of last year, last financial year, it was about 26%, 26.5%. So the team have done an outstanding job improving the reliability, the stability and the feature sets of that product, making it easier to use, easier to solve your kids problems and harder kids to get around. And there's still a ton of work to do. So we've got high confidence that, that, plus the fact that we've got schools promoting Qustodio to parents of younger kids, we've got high confidence that we'll see significant increases in LTV, which is a function of, again, the age of starting your control contract and the churn factors. So, yes, I mean, I think they're doing an outstanding job. You'll see churn progressively in that business fall through the year now and then kind of lift in that September calling fall again, but trending downwards, which has been doing that for three years.

Okay. Very good. And then just final question, if I can get in a third. The U.K. unification and like the launch there, I thought previously, the commentary had been around like calendar year '26. I think it was going to be kind of early in the year. You're now talking March pushing into June. Like has that been pushed out at all? Or do I just misunderstand that historically?

It's a stage. We're rolling out a sequence of capabilities. Essentially, I don't really want to give too much away because our competitors are probably on this call. All the capability will be available essentially in the U.K. market around about March, but we're offering it to different segments in stages. So, let me kind of leave it there. But yes, it won't be available to all of the segments in the U.K. probably until that last quarter, the [indiscernible] quarter, but it will all be available in the early part of next calendar year.

Thanks, Lindsay. James, you should be able to turn your microphone unmute.

Congrats on the results. Maybe just touching a bit further on the ARR. I think there was a comment that the record in FY '25 will be beaten in FY '26. So there's a fair level of confidence around that. Maybe just sort of confirm that for us and talk us through the driver and the confidence in terms of you guys giving that guidance to the market, just considering the current quarter was in line with PCP.

Yes, cool. So essentially you need to separate our business into K-12 and consumer for this discussion. The consumer business, it's somewhat core right. That business is about trying to optimize your cost to acquire through all sorts of channels. And you've seen now, I think, three quarters in a row, that business is really starting to get that mix right. So we -- I'm happy to say we're budgeting for that business to grow at 30%. And so far, they're on track to beat that. K-12 is different. K-12 isn't about pouring money into a funnel. It's about identifying sales opportunities, literally account level, allocating that to individual salespeople or success people account managers. working with the product teams to make sure that we've got the proposition and the products that those customers are looking for and then setting a go-to-market plan, what's called the motion in the U.S. So the reason we've got confidence is because now we've gone through that mechanic, that budgeting and planning mechanic for like four or five years, and we've got incredible visibility about the opportunities in that market with an incredible sales team. Every single salesperson as of a couple of weeks ago, knows what their target is, carrying a number, they know what they're targeting. They know the region they're responsible for, and they're just going to execute. So we've done that every year for five years in a row. So I think the number that we added ARR last year in education. I think it was like $24 million or something like that. So, Crispin's team have been given a target, which is in our budget, but a target of materially higher than that and that budget is somewhat lower than that. Yes, they'll just go execute.

Definitely. And good to see that weighted pipeline pick up again as well. And just on the U.K. unification, I mean, is that fairly material in terms of the expectation of what you're expecting to pick up in ARR? Or is it around the edges type thing?

Next year, it's all about retention. So it's going to our existing customers basically say, and bringing them on the journey of what Qoria means and what this product and platform means for them. And then essentially doing what the U.S. team have done so brilliantly, which is then turning existing customers into advocates and sell around them. So next year is bringing existing customers on the journey, demonstrating the efficacy of this product set. And so I think the new logo growth story in the U.K. will be more of a '27 picture. Next year, it's about, as I said, conversion into the new platform, cross-selling, particularly the monitoring product and filtering products filtering capability that's come to market is astounding. And yes, as I said, new logo growth in the subsequent calendar year.

Excellent. And last one for me, maybe for Ben, just on the cash cost growth as well. Just remind us what's expected there on a normalized basis into '26. Just conscious there were some one-offs and you're seeing strong growth on the revenue side as well that was upgraded. So just any comments on the cash cost growth outlook?

Yes, still in line with what we said previously in that sort of 6% to 8% range over the whole year when you take out any noise from FX and those sorts of pieces. So well and fully lower than revenue growth. Thanks, James. Owen, you should be able to unmute now.

Just on Qustodio. So the $1.5 million increase in sales and marketing year-on-year in the quarter, how much was related to Qustodio?

Yes, the majority of that would have been related to. So yes, very little, maybe a little bit of spend in education, but rounding error type level.

Yes. And the ARR you're adding there in Qustodio, just talk me through when you're selling that product is the percentage of that is one year upfront, you guys get to recoup the CAC. What percentage is paid upfront per year?

100%.

100%.

Okay. So you cover your CAC straight away and then 2, 3, 4, whatever is LTV to CAC says you do need through, you recoup. Just going to the last quarters, Ben, a bit more of an accounting question, just understanding the reclassification of costs from direct into staff. Can you just maybe go through some changes that you've...

It's not very [indiscernible]. Not direct into staff. What we did was we split the marketing costs out of direct. So that's really obvious. So historically, we would put marketing and all your data and hosting costs into the direct line. But as we're making that investment in marketing, it makes sense to take the two apart. So you can see the data and hosting costs are tracking at a level that's much lower than revenue growth. The other change that we made was to bring everything from the 4C into that table on Slide 16. Historically, we haven't included the Qustodio capitalized because that wasn't part of the accounting change. and a few other bits and pieces. But for the sake of just making it easier for everyone to reconcile between the two and see everything in one spot, we've gone through and basically restated all the historicals to the same format as we include the September quarter. So now every single cash flow item in the actual Appendix 4C sits in this table.

Yes, one like that. Now the weighted pipeline there of $10 million, the percentage of that, can you guys give a geographic split there, the percentage that's the U.S. Is the U.K. starting to build yet?

Yes, it's predominantly the U.S., Owen. U.K. pipe is definitely building. But I would say if you look at us across Australia, New Zealand, the U.S., U.K., the U.S. probably represent probably 65%, roughly of that probably a small portion, 5% in ANZ and then the rest in the U.K.

And you said on the call there around a large opportunity slipping from last quarter into this quarter. Is that inside that weighted pipeline?

No, we removed those lumpy large deals out of the pipeline.

And how many are there, I guess, expected to close this quarter?

No comment. I don't know how much I should say. But yes, we're still actively involved in those conversations. And just to touch on a previous question around confidence in the year ahead, like we've made a number of structural changes in the U.S., one being having a single head of sales, another being having dedicated strategic and technical account managers to handle our largest accounts. The other is, if you recall, if we talked about this, we've now got a head of strategic accounts as well, and that individual is going after the top 100 largest districts in the U.S. So that individual along with partner relationships is having meetings with districts that have anywhere from 100,000 to 400,000 students. So, yes, we -- again, I can't recall if I said this previously on the call, but have a goal within the U.S. to close an additional 6 of the top 100 accounts in FY '26, which again, I'm quite confident we'll be able to achieve.

Got you. Okay. Well done. That sounds good. And then the last one here, just you said 30% growth in Qustodio is kind of where you expect to hold for this year. That kind of assumes, call it, $9-odd million increase in ARR. Is that what we should expect in terms of increase in sales and marketing?

Well, look, I think we just need to play by year. The marketing spend is going to be going up in our budget of, I think, $3 million, $3.5 million every year, and we're predicting that will take the ARR growth from, I think, $7 million last year to $10 million for Qustodio. The first test was the September quarter with flying colors. So we have confidence in delivering that kind of, let's call it, guidance, if you will. But again, as I've said before, if the business outperforms in particularly in cash flow and EBITDA, if we save money somewhere by not hiring someone or what have you, then we're encouraging Victoria essentially to spend it and turn that into growth. So that's literally going to be a weekly, if not daily decision about how do we optimize the growth in that business. So look at that 30% is kind of our base level. But if funds allow, we're going to try and shift beyond that.

Thanks, Owen. Wei Sim, you should be able to unmute now.

Just in terms of the revenue upgrade that from $130 million to $145 million, can you just remind us what visibility we have into the FY '26 revenue outlook and what gives us the confidence to put through this guidance upgrade?

Yes. The visibility is pretty strong. And I think like we touched on at the call when we put the original guidance out the $140 million was relatively conservative with -- the only thing that could really go wrong to make it drop below $145 million would be FX. So I think we're now almost four months through the year. Qustodio in particular, is growing strong in the first quarter, and that revenue kicks in straight away. So all those things put together have made us confident that it's not going to be below $145 million. So we're happy to lift that guidance.

Okay. Got it. And then just in terms of Slide 9, that bottom left chart, Tim, you kind of mentioned it. Do you mind just walking us through a bit more in terms of why that number is not a worry?

Yes. Crispin, do you want to maybe cover your thoughts on the September quarter and why ASP isn't such a focus?

Yes. I mean you covered the cyclical nature of the business there, but it's also just the nature of the deals that get closed. And in Q4, we had a large number of TASI that closed, and those are USD 100,000 to USD 200,000 deals. We didn't have any of those that closed in Q1, hence, why the numbers dropped. Like I said, that one large opportunity, if that had closed last quarter, then that number would have been significantly higher. So it just comes around the, I guess, the type of deals across the smallest up to the largest districts that we're working on. For me, it's more about making sure that we've got sufficient pipeline and more to meet the FY '26 goals. And so for me, personally, I'm not too concerned about the ASP dropping in the September quarter. It's just making sure that we've got enough deals, which as Tim said, are allocated out every single sales rep has a target channel, inside sales and marketing all outperforming. So, yes, this is not something that keeps me awake at night.

Okay. Got it. Last one for me is just on Qustodio, I think the numbers were pretty strong this quarter. Are you able to give some color as to what's been driving that regionally?

Yes. Well, one of the brilliant things about that business is we can sell internationally. Some of our competitors are very much U.S. focused. And so if they're buying search terms, right? That's how SEO works. If you're buying -- essentially competing to find parents who are searching online for -- and sometimes that can be expensive. And so a secret of Qustodio is that we operate in 11 languages and so we can find customers anywhere that's cost effective. And we can also hijack local things like the best example of that is the Adolescence Netflix TV show when that launched in the U.K. that turned into rivers of gold for our U.K. consumer business. So that's the kind of base level as they get to spend anywhere where they can find a customer at a certain price. Now added to that over the last couple of years is what's called middle of the funnel marketing. So finding parents that are sort of aware of the problem but aren't really in a mood to buy it right now. And so these are things like TV shows, webinars, social media marketing, we're deploying money at the moment into Reddit and TikTok and Instagram and so on with influencers. And that's really starting to work. All of us in the industry are starting to pull money into AI-based generative AI-based search, and that's now for us starting to really contribute. And then finally, our B2B2C and telco and affiliate partnerships, promoting through tech magazines online for the top printing control apps in 2025. So those sorts of partnership-driven marketing efforts are also bringing customers to us from different parts of the funnel. So it's all those measures are aimed at essentially qualifying and managing your CAC and our cost to acquire customers, I think, industry-leading, unquestionably industry-leading at around about USD 50 to USD 60. So, yes, all of those measures. The big difference in that Qustodio business over the last year is it was very much performance marketing, so SEO-based marketing a year ago, and now we're using all those kind of mechanisms to manage the CAC and bring customers to us.

Thanks, Wei Sim. Wei-Weng, you should be able to unmute now.

A couple of questions from me. So, Qustodio is making, I guess, quite a meaningful contribution to your ARR dollar growth, and we established previously on the other calls that you're expecting to grow sort of 30% or say, sort of $8 million to $9 million over the year. What's the seasonality we should be thinking about this ARR growth? You did $2.4 million in the first quarter. So that's, say, $6 million in the next three quarters to your target. Is that kind of spread evenly over the next three quarters? Or are there certain big ones and some small ones?

Yes. No, typically, it's the second half of the year, it would be 60%. Would that be right, Ben? 60% of the ARR growth in Qustodio will be coming in that December half?

December half, yes.

Yes, it's not equal each quarter. There's definitely an orientation towards back-to-school Black Friday, Christmas, those periods of time where parents are required or do buy devices is definitely the key selling point. So let's say 65%. So 35% will come through in the January to June period. So, yes, Ben. What I suppose to tell...

Close to 51, will be around 10%...

Close to 51.

51, yes.

So we've given Victoria, license. Victoria, who runs that business of license to go for it this half. And we'll see what that does in terms of growth, cash costs, EBITDA impact. And then we'll kind of play with our levers in the second half of the year to make sure that we hit revenue, ARR and -- sorry, revenue growth and EBITDA guidance. So that's why I'm really looking forward to the January conversation, and yes, talk to the market about what that business has achieved and position it for going forward.

Yes. Cool, cool. And then another sort of quarterly based question for me. So in the PCP, you generated all your free cash flow in 1Q with the other three quarters kind of negative. How should we think about the remaining three quarters for this year? Are you planning for second quarter to be positive?

Yes. Yes, that's right. And then third and fourth will be negative again. There's no further questions, Tim. So if you want to wrap up with some closing comments.

Yes, cool. Thanks, Crispin and Ben, for attending. Thanks for the questions from the analysts on the call. That's always great. And thanks for all the investors being part of this journey. Yes. I think everyone is very clear on what we're planning to do this year, 20% growth, 20% EBITDA margins. We're committed to those -- that guidance. And Q1 test, I think, has been passed with color. So I'm looking forward to seeing you again in January. Thanks, everyone.

Thanks everyone.

Thank you.