QYOU Media Inc. (QYOU) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hello all, and welcome to another QYOU shareholder update. My name is Jace. I'm the Chief Product Officer of the company. And momentarily, we're going to have Curt join us, and he's going to give an update with several of our colleagues. So we're just going to wait a few moments for people to fill in. And yes, we'll be hanging out here for about a minute, and then we'll start the presentation. Thank you so much. We're going to start the call. Curt, are you there?

I am.

Once you get your camera start, we will start the call. There you are. Okay. Hand off to you, sir.

Okay. Good morning, everyone. Thanks for joining us on our investor update this morning. It's kind of an odd time. Obviously, a lot of things have happened in the world since we put out the announcement of this event. So trust that everybody is safe and sound and hope that things continue to work out okay. Obviously, it's affected a little bit of what's happening for us in Dubai, et cetera -- nothing significant in terms of our business today. So with that said, I'm going to share my screen here -- one second. Here we go, Jace does that show up okay?

Looks great.

Okay. So today, what we're going to do is you're just not going to hear me speak the whole time as usual. I want to focus a lot on the business here in the U.S. and in particular, some of the details around not only what's happening in terms of how we're planning to continue to grow the business here, but also the recent announcements that we've made about our being awarded a badge partner -- being announced as a badge partner with TikTok. And in addition to the announcement that we made yesterday about the launch of QYOU Amplify, which Peggy Lin will get into. I'll be joined today by Glenn Ginsburg, who many of you have heard speak previously. Glenn is the President of QYOU USA and the leader of that team. Glenn has now been with us, I believe, I think we celebrated Glenn's 10th anniversary, which is unbelievable or we're close to it if we haven't. And Peggy has been with us for about 1.5 years now and has been in the role as our Vice President of Account Management and Planning and as a result of the launch of QYOU Amplify added the title as General Manager of QYOU Amplify. The 2 of them will walk you through some of the details that are happening around both of those businesses. And I'm left with a little bit of time, 12:15 Eastern Time and 9:15 a.m. Pacific Time to take some questions from all of you. So what I wanted to do a bit this morning is review for everyone a little bit of who we are as a business and what we're doing, why we're doing it and where we are as a company going forward. As many of you who have been long-time shareholders know, we've gone through a lot of different twists and turns with television channels, with mobile gaming, with other things that we've attempted and at times have been successful and at other times have not been successful as we've continued to build the business of QYOU Media. Approximately 18 months ago, we made the decision that we were going to focus the complete power of the company behind the 2 business units that were both growing year-over-year in terms of revenue, and we're also growing year-over-year in terms of EBITDA generation and profitability. And so we've now completed the task as of the beginning of this year, and we really were kind of pretty much getting that done at the second half of 2025, second 2 quarters of 2025 of ridding ourselves of both the distraction and the financial burden that had built up to be substantial on our results from the businesses that were just not growing and providing profitability in the ways that we expected. And so as a result of that, the company is now completely in an industry that's been described for people in the world that we work in as the creator economy. And what is the creator economy? The creator economy is the business that is utilizing YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, Snapchat creators or influencers to market the brands and products of companies to ultimately create transactions. So whether that's something that we might be doing for HEINZ KETCHUP to be able to get people to go to the grocery store and buy more ketchup or go to their local burger stand and hope that they have HEINZ KETCHUP there, we may be running campaigns to do that. And by the same token, we may be running a campaign to get more gamers to want to purchase the game Call of Duty or for Paramount Pictures for more people to go see the movie Mission Impossible. Everything that we do revolves around the process of getting these creators to work with storytelling and content that's going to create a compelling reason for someone to want to create purchase intent or in the case of movies, obviously, going to the theaters. So the problem that's emerged as this has taken place is that, obviously, traditional ads on television, everybody, I'm sure on this call is well aware of this. traditional television, print, billboards, things that were used in the past for advertisers to reach audiences and create purchase intent are going the wayside very quickly. And what's taken over is the area of ads on Meta, through Meta, on Facebook, on Google, on these platforms like Instagram, TikTok, Snapchat, YouTube Shorts, et cetera, where people are watching content on these platforms in incredible numbers, and Glenn will talk a little bit about that more momentarily and creating their reason for wanting to purchase items and services. This is the business that we're in. It's a huge growth industry, and it's an area that we've been working on for 10 years, which honestly makes us among sort of the OGs, if you will, and people that have vast experience in this space. Why are people so focused on this? It's because it's all about authenticity. And there's been a lot of chatter that's happened over the last couple of years about AI and AI fakes and other things that are happening. But there is a tremendous amount of research that shows that authenticity, believability, people following these creators and influencers who they believe in, whether it's for a young girl who's looking at it for perfume or beauty product that she might want to purchase or whether it's a golfer who's looking for someone for his new chipping wedge that he wants to buy. People follow influencers and these people and creators on these platforms because they trust the voice of those people to be able to give them strong recommendations. So part of what we're constantly focused on is creating authentic impactful content that can get people to believe in the products that are being served up by these influencers and communities they follow. The next thing that's been a problem is that the social media landscape has been extremely fragmented. There are a lot of different platforms. It's not like the old days of television where you might choose different channels that you were placing your ad on, but the delivery vehicle, the TV set was all the same, and it was a 30-second ad. There are a lot of different forms and ways that content can be produced and distributed. We believe that we're leading the charge in many ways, which is evidenced by the awards that we've been winning both here in India over the last couple of years. And so in that sort of fragmented social landscape, part of what we're doing is trying to create a way that people can have a one-stop shop to be able to solve some of those problems. And the final thing is the lack of data-driven performance. While you would think that in the digital space, it would be easier and more developed in terms of the metrics that are being delivered to the brands and agencies and ultimately our customers about what's happened. There's still a lot of different metrics that are scattered and tools and things that do not have that as, I guess, I'll call it, organized and developed as you may think. We've been doing a lot of work in the background in our technology. Again, you'll hear Peggy and Glenn talk a bit more about that in specifics, but you'll be seeing more technology announcements as we go forward to do that. So our solution, as I've just mentioned, is that we believe that we can do creator-led marketing at scale. That's because we've been doing this for so long, because we've developed such a broad swath of customers in different verticals and categories that we feel strongly that we have that ability. Of course, everybody talks about AI-powered technology. We have our own internal AI task force that are led by Jace. We've been developing all sorts of different internal tools that are leveraging that technology to make us work more efficiently and more effectively. You'll again be hearing about things that we'll be rolling out across 2026 and beyond that are leveraging our capabilities in the market around that. So we are increasingly driving the business forward on a technology basis. As most or all of you are aware, we run our activities in both North America and India through Chatterbox. This puts us in a unique position to be able to take on global campaigns with the recent launch of our operations in Dubai, that's increasing. And so as the business is becoming more mainstream, the global abilities of us as a company become increasingly important. We have a huge track record. We've got over 1,200 campaigns that have been run between the companies for Fortune 500 companies around the world. And so the list of clients that we have, the verticals that we operate in, et cetera, continue to grow, and we continue to develop and unveil new areas for us to get into. And finally, as I mentioned at the beginning, the shift that we made was to focus on 2 businesses, which seem to be a smart decision that are not only scalable, but also growing and providing profitable growth. And so although all of us are boning our share price and extremely disappointed that the market has not yet caught up to what we think we're doing as a business, we are convinced that if we continue to deliver growth and profitability that ultimately the share price will follow. What is our growth strategy? We are, as this shareholder call is part of is we're going to increase our outreach. We believe there are family offices and media investors. When I talk about media investors, I'm not talking about necessarily people that are investing in the media companies like Paramount or Disney, but in the media of companies that are the advertisers that are using these platforms for reaching consumers. We have a lot of increased inbound interest from these types of investors. And again, we think we'll be seeing the impact of that going forward. Every brand on the planet Earth is using this now. So there's a big strong push by both our business here in North America as well as India to increase the verticals and different categories that we're operating in. We're deepening our relationships with the agencies that we're working with and the various partners that we have, both from a technology point of view and from a brand and customer point of view to be able to develop that further. And finally, we think that our global positioning is unique and can allow us to do that. As we sort of get more tactical in terms of how we're doing that, Glenn will speak more about the focus of what we're doing in the company to create more enterprise-level businesses, but we're doing that both directly with the brands themselves and also with the agencies that we're working with. Through those agency relationships and brand relationships, we're beginning to develop a deeper technology relationship with them, which is proving to create more stickiness in the relationships that we have with them, along with creating increased size of the campaigns that we're running, et cetera. In India, as many of you know, we have an influencer management business that we run. Here in the U.S., while we don't directly manage influencers because we've been in the business for the length of time that we have, we have an extraordinarily deep talent network that we tap into. And as that continues to grow and develop, we're constantly building that, and that's a great resource for us to be able to tap into as we grow. And finally, we've started to have increasingly meetings with potential strategic partners. Glenn and I had one just last week with someone who is working in sort of different areas of the creator economy and different territories in the creator economy as we look to grow the business and create more again of a global presence. Geographically, we are now, as I mentioned, U.S., India and recently Dubai. And as we head through 2026 and into 2027, it's a huge goal of ours to begin to integrate all of these businesses more as global campaigns develop across the board. These multinational companies that we work with, whether it's groups like the Disney Corp. Company or Activision/Microsoft or Kraft Heinz and others, these are all businesses that run on a global basis. And increasingly, we're seeing campaigns that are reaching not just what we used to do years ago that might be simply for the United States, but campaigns that are stretching and reaching globally around the world. Finally, I wanted to sort of wrap up my portion with that we're -- we still do not have audited results. It's a long and painful and laborious process to go through the audit. As many of you are aware, we now report on a financial calendar year. So we will be reporting the end of fiscal 2025 and our Q4 2025 results at the end of April. In the meantime, because these are positive results, and we want to get out as quickly as we can, we will be releasing sometime in the month of March date TBD, where we will be reporting some preliminary unaudited high-level results for the year and for Q4. I can let you know on this call that Q4 2025 will represent the highest revenue quarter that we've ever had in the history of the company. So we're extremely proud and excited about that, and we have high aspirations for the continued growth of the business going forward. In addition, you will see that we will have more of these types of calls going forward, more frequent PR. I get a lot of notes from many of you, why isn't there more announcements coming out, live events like we used to have, et cetera. You'll see more of that going forward as well. And finally, our goal for 2026 is simplistic and straightforward. We are constantly focused as operating groups, both here in Indian and Dubai on one thing, which is growing the profitability of the company and growing the top line revenue of the company. We do that through a very, very strategic and tactical operation focused on specific clients and milestones and things that we're doing. And in order to dive deeper into that on this call today, I want to stop talking and turn it over to my great friend and colleague, Glenn Ginsburg, President of QYOU USA.

Great. Can you guys hear me.

I'm going to stop my share.

I will start my share. Hi, everybody. Just want to make sure everyone can see my screen?

Yes.

Great. Thanks so much, Curt, and thanks for having me join today. I look forward to kind of sharing what -- kind of what we're seeing in the market currently in -- for 2026 and based off of that, our approach. So let's first kind of start off with kind of the opportunity that we're seeing. Right now, and Curt speaks of the creator economy, which is a very, very large overall market, which is inclusive not only what we do, but also e-commerce and creation of new IP. But when we focus in specifically on what is our market that we are going for specifically and in the U.S., this is not even a global number. We're looking at a projected $35.6 billion market, which represents the capital that brands are paying directly to creators to make posts on their behalf and the media or amplification that's going into those posts to ensure that it's reaching the audiences that they're aiming for. So it is a -- again, this is -- and this is specifically dead center where QYOU operates each and every day. It's a healthy growing market. This $35.6 billion represents a 30% year-over-year growth. Kind of when looking at the landscape of who are providing these services, the challenge and the opportunity is, one, it's a very fragmented market. There are a lot of people and a lot of different types of companies that are serving brands. But the good news is that no one is a majority player. No one owns it, really leaving it a wide open space. For example, a major player in the market would be representing of that $35.6 million, managing $100 million, which is only a fraction of the percentage of the value of the market and maybe a powerhouse that's managing $0.5 million only again has a slight share of the overall market. So right now, again, as brands are shifting dollars to this marketplace, there is really opportunity to capture significant dollars. So kind of with a little bit of the call to action, the ultimate winners are those partners that can scale. Brands expect a certain level of service and quality. And the trick is how do we get to those that situation where we can manage hundreds or hundreds of millions of dollars and provide the same level of service to our partners. Next page. So as I mentioned, kind of this growing market, a kind of a rule of thumb. And while sometimes it takes a little bit longer than you would expect, but always ad dollars, advertising partnerships follow where audiences go and audience behavior. And Curt mentioned this at the top that traditional television, print, et cetera, has been overtaken by social media and creators are the conduits to those audiences. The big stats that we're seeing right now is that -- that now -- that marketers are now allocating more than half of their total digital ad spend to creator collaborations. And we are now seeing the emergence of some of the top-tier companies having annual budgets of $100 million plus shifting directly from those traditional media outlets to social media. So where we're really seeing that acceleration in the market is -- and again, we've been doing this for a while now, and we've been through all of the experimental test budgets, right? And these budgets and these opportunities that are coming from one small department within a larger organization or then being these really -- this is kind of a one-off campaign, and it's really turning into much more of an institutionalized practice within virtually all of the major organizations. There is a clear realization that social media and creator marketing are key to reaching their audiences with impact. And they are -- now it works across all of the different teams within the organizations. It has become a core institutionalized budget line item, and they're moving from one-offs to these scalable platforms and always on-type presence. So with that said, how are we approaching it? And again, also, as Curt mentioned, we built a very solid practice and partnering with some of the largest -- some of the best marketers, largest brands out there. I think Curt mentioned a few between Kraft Heinz and Paramount and Activision, Microsoft and a bunch of others. We intentionally now are really focused on moving away from any kind of one-offs with partners and really driving them to align with their growth needs to bring them into -- through the funnel, a graduation pipeline from first working with us to multiple types of executions to this core enterprise type of partnership. We're really embedded into their planning cycles that we are locking in opportunities throughout the year. And for them, it is an opportunity for them to kind of have predictability and coverage throughout the year. For us, it provides the same. One challenge that we've had in the past is one quarter will be really strong and the next quarter will dip in the next quarter. So we're really trying to take away some of that unpredictability in our business by layering in some of these partnerships. For this to really work to is going to be very much more disciplined in how we expand our business. We really want to pick and choose the partners that, one, maximize their need is great. They really need to speak to especially these younger Gen Z, Gen A and young millennial audiences. They've got to do it at scale. And we envision that their business is really going to grow by this. Once we pick and choose these clients, it's then creating the right playbooks to bring them to growth partners, doing multiple executions all the way through core. Why we think we're really well positioned, and we know we're really well positioned for this is really something that we have been built out really since the beginning is that QYOU has really taken on an integrated model. And what that means is that we offer a variety of services that work in conjunction that can really help a brand really end-to-end. So that includes strategy, creative and production creators and media, all working together. There are other companies out there that serve different pieces of it. There are efficiencies when it works together. And the truth is and the research that we have is when all these are working in concert, the results are better. So we're providing better results, more efficiencies. And at the end of the day, that also leads to what we call white glove service where it really feels like we are becoming an extension of our partners' own teams, which also bodes really well as we start to get even more and more foothold in the enterprise space. Lastly, before I kick it off to Peggy, and this really kind of speaks to that first slide where we're talking about how do we maintain the value, the impact that we make as we scale and bring in larger clients and larger commitments and become an overall bigger company. And yes, it is technology and the use of AI. Currently, we are applying this in multiple ways. The first and foremost is real-time data, clients need that live transparent dashboard to track performance, analytics and ROI instantly. Jace is spearheading a lot of this work. I'm not going to share too much about it because I'm sure that there will be another session that goes deeper into our tools. But the next phase 2 has also been workflow automation. One thing to say about kind of creator marketing, there's a lot of moving pieces. And you can just imagine with multiple 10, 20 or even more scaled leveraging of creators, there's a lot of moving pieces. from everything from identifying to executing to reporting. And so we have added a bunch of workflow automations, which is taking a lot of the burden and allowing our teams to basically do more. Recently, we are now adding what we're calling critical thinking agents that enable teams as we scale to maintain basically quality control. So it knows as we add more teams, what our partners expect from us from a thinking perspective and ensures that what we develop and what we put out is aligned with that. And then there's a whole innovation road map that we're developing that will help us grow and scale. So with that said, that's kind of a recap of our thinking and where we're going. Super excited now to kick it off to Peggy, who, again, only been here about a year plus, but has really made a sizable impact on our media practice as well as been a big part of this announcement about QYOU Amplify, our new business unit that's driving even more media impact for our partners. Thank you all so much.

Thank you, Glenn.

Looks great.

Awesome. Thank you, Jace. So thank you, Glenn. So he covered the market on the macro level in terms of the investment that brands are spending on creator economy. So he referenced the $35 billion spending. And on this chart here from EMARKETER, you can see that U.S. brands are spending $12 billion on content creation alone. So that means that 2/3 of that spending is actually going towards paid media. So within the $35 billion creator economy budget, -- most of that is going towards paid amplification and paid media spending. So it just shows the tremendous growth of paid within this space. And then just tapping back on a global level, we see over a 170% jump year-over-year. And he referenced some enterprise brands are spending over $100 million on influencer marketing. But on average, globally, we're seeing at least $5 million to $8 million being spent on creator programs. So this just goes to show that the market is really maturing in the sense that creator marketing is no longer a nice to have, but a must-have within their marketing plan and their marketing budget. So how does that affect paid media and the buying strategy? It is so back in the day, you hire a creator, you create a couple of pieces of content, it goes on their organic channel, maybe you put it on the brand channel and then you -- that's kind of it. It's very much like a top-of-funnel awareness driver. But now we're seeing that expectation go down the funnel. So brands are expecting creator content to not just bring awareness to their products and services, but also get them to go and buy to go see that movie, right, to go buy that HEINZ KETCHUP. So it's becoming a full funnel media solution for a lot of brands out there. And we're entering what some companies are calling it the era of efficacy, which means that we're moving towards this performance accountability towards greater marketing. And what is really driving that accountability is paid media because with paid media, we're able to reach the right audiences with the right targeting, with the right messaging to the right landing pages. And all of that is being tracked from the first point of exposure from seeing someone seeing an ad to someone clicking on it and then to someone buying the product. We're able to do full funnel attribution. So that's really what's driving kind of like the growth and the maturation of creative marketing going full funnel. So we had a couple of really exciting announcements recently. And this one was announced a couple of weeks ago that we're now officially a badge partner of TikTok. This has been, I think, from my knowledge, 2 years in the making. And it just goes to show that this is kind of like the best time for us to be badge. In order to become a badge partner, there's a couple of things we had to do. We had to show a growth in spending on TikTok month-over-month, consistent growth, and that's thanks to a lot of the clients that we're working with increasing the media spend with us. We're also being able to use a variety of their products on TikTok. So we're using different types of tactics to help our customers drive acquisitions of their products and also requires everybody on my team to get TikTok certified, myself included. So with all of that combined, we're able to get badge. As you are familiar, there's hundreds and thousands of influencer marketing companies and agencies out there trying to get badge. So it is a very competitive program. So we're really excited. We're finally being recognized by TikTok. And what being a badge partner means it just shows to all of our clients and potential customers out there that we have proven platform expertise that we have competency not just within media, but we also understand creative. We also understand the way that measurement is done on the platform, and we also understand compliance. And why this is important. And of course, like I said, it sets us apart in a very competitive landscape. I was just in a meeting earlier this week with Warner Bros. with the brand team that oversees influencer marketing, and they're happy to introduce us to their media team because their media team only works with companies that are badged by TikTok. So that's just like a sign of validation. It gives us a competitive edge. It also gives us access to things like dedicated support and training. And what I really like is also gives us first access to new products. As you know, these social platforms are evolving on a daily basis, and they're always coming out with better products to reach the customers to drive that type of acquisition and ROI. So we have access to these products, which means our clients gets access to these products, giving them a competitive edge towards their competitors. And then there's also additional opportunities like co-hosting events and co-pitching together. We are doing a couple of roadshows this year. So we're able to bring in experts from TikTok to just help deepen kind of the education with our clients within their vertical expertise and also just to help echo some of the expertise that we bring to the table. So all of this said, to summarize, being a badge partner with TikTok just goes to show that we have met the higher standard of performance of quality and also innovation. So with that, we're super excited as of yesterday, our press release went out to launch QYOU Amplify. And what QYOU Amplify is a dedicated media and analytics unit within QYOU that is built to service our clients to help them scale their campaigns, so taking their influencer marketing campaign and really scaling it full funnel across paid and organic channels. And how we differentiate ourselves from other competitors is oftentimes a traditional agency or traditional marketing company will create content with creators and then the media is kind of an afterthought or they'll give the media over to their media agency and then they take a blanket one size fits all approach. You just kind of throw the content into their paid social campaign and just let it run, and they don't really see a lot of good performance there. But we are integrated from day 1. When we get a brief from a client based on their objective and their KPIs, we put forth the best proposal in terms of the creator mix, the media mix, what is the split between creator to media, what type of format and what type of content we should be utilizing and also the platform recommendation. Should this be on TikTok only? Should this be on TikTok and Instagram, -- should we also extend into YouTube. We also activate on Snap. We also are on Twitch for some of our gaming clients. So our team is really experts across all the social platforms, and we can plug in whichever platform based on what we think makes sense for the campaigns. And also everything on my team, besides being certified on TikTok, there are also the account managers for all of these campaigns. So they have the most intimate knowledge with what the campaigns consist of from a creative and a content perspective, right? So they know that based on these types of creators that we're working with, we should be reaching these types of communities. So we're able to use very precise targeting to reach the best audiences efficiently on these platforms. And also, everybody on my team are in the platforms daily optimizing the campaigns on behalf on the clients. So we are hands-on keyboard in the campaigns ourselves optimizing. And all of that -- what does all of this mean? It just means that we're able to get really good performance for a client and -- in the past year, some of the metrics that we're seeing 2 to 3x higher views and click-through rates based on industry standard or even sometimes client data, that just means that we're able to get much more efficient cost per view engagement metrics and also clicks for our clients. And for some of the acquisition clients that we've done campaigns for in the past year, we're able to lower acquisition costs by up to 70% compared to their traditional ads compared to even like promotional ads where they're giving discounts and percentages off, we see that our content is still outperforming. And that's a testament to how awesome our content is, but also how well our paid media strategy and approach is. And since we have just launched and formalized going to market, there is a couple of things that we're still working on in terms of really formalizing the team that we are going to really build out our capabilities from the paid and analytics perspective, going to market with a very cohesive story, continue to develop our partnerships with different tech and measurement partners out there. We do quite a bit of friend studies for our clients. So we want to continue to build the stack of different partners we can leverage to really help enhance our paying capabilities and measurement capabilities. And also, we're excited to use Amplify as an entry point to engage with larger teams. For example, traditionally, we've talked to mostly brand and influencer and content teams, but now we're getting our foot in the door with media teams, really just broadening our client mix. And we know that traditionally, the media teams still hold most of the digital investment. So we're really excited about that and then ultimately help drive year-over-year growth for our enterprise and our upfront clients and partnerships. And I think that is it for QYOU Amplify. I'm going to pass it over, I think, to Curt and Jace to field quest.

Okay. Thanks, Glenn. Thanks, Peggy. Thanks, Jason. We've only got a couple of minutes left right now. First, some of you on the call, I know already know this because I get e-mails from you, but my e-mail address is [email protected] with questions that you have about the business. I get them frequently. I do my best to answer them as quickly and as transparently as I possibly can. And all I ask is if you do that, please give me a couple of days to respond because my inbox does overflow with on a daily basis. The other thing I want to mention is that we will be doing another one of these calls focused on the India and Dubai operations with Raj Mishra and potentially a person or 2 from those teams joining us. I don't have an exact date set up for that yet. But as I mentioned at the top, we're going to do these with more frequency so that we feel like you guys have a better sense of what's happening. Final statement that I want to repeat again is that we are as chagrined and unhappy, disappointed and frankly, confused by the lack of support that we've gotten from the public markets. I think there's a lot of different reasons for it, but we're convinced that the only way for us to really fight against it in the long term is just to continue to deliver results. And so there's sort of no magic that we see that's going to be able to flip that. What we've got to do is continue to, on an annualized basis, show that the company is growing the way we're saying it's going to grow and delivering the financial results. So that remains the focus of our business going forward. I don't have time for tuning of these questions.

There was one about compensation. I'm not sure I quite understood the question. But what I will say is that we really have 3 costs in our business on an operational basis. The first one is paying the creators who are doing that we're working on creating the content with for the campaigns that we're doing. The second one is the one that Peggy was just talking about in detail, which is the media buying boosting and amplification of those campaigns on the various platforms. And the third one is our staff and our people. I mean, obviously, there are smaller things like office space and insurance and things of that nature. But mainly, it's our people. And we pride ourselves, as Glenn said, in providing white glove service. We have an incredible group of people working for us who work tirelessly to deliver amazing campaigns to our clients. And so that doesn't come cheaply. And we -- the bottom line is if you take off whatever the revenue number is and you subtract the creator cost, the media costs and the people costs, along with a few other operational things, that's where we're striving constantly to reach an EBITDA number of at a minimum 8% and hopefully going forward closer to 10% to 12% as we head through 2026 into 2027. Someone also asked about the number of clients we have in the different tiers -- still the majority of our clients are in the lower tier. However, we have, I would say, roughly -- well, we have one enterprise client at the moment. And I would say we have roughly 2 other clients that we're either negotiating with or hopefully negotiating with. And so if you ask me for a goal for 2026, it would be to probably achieve somewhere between 3 and maybe as many as 4 or 5 enterprise clients. That would be roughly the same number for the growth partners. These are companies that we've been in business with for a while and that we're looking to extend them up to a higher level of spend with us as we move ahead. And then we are always mining for new customers in the lower categories. But as Glenn mentioned, -- it's critically important to us now where we used to just sort of take a job because it was revenue and we could do it. It's now much more important for us to evaluate it in terms of what the long-term opportunity is with that client with respect to moving them up the path to become a growth partner and ultimately an enterprise client. So I think that's all the questions that I've seen. We're just over time. We've got to get out of here because we've got some important client meetings and other meetings today, but really appreciate all of you supporting us. We're going to keep fighting and fighting and fighting to not only increase the share price, but provide shareholder value for all of you. As I said, reach out to me directly with any questions, and I'll do my best to answer them as quickly as possible. So that wraps it up for the investor call for today. Thank you all very much. Stay safe, and we'll see you all again soon.