Radiant Cash Management Services Limited (RADIANTCMS) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Radiant Cash Management Services Q4 FY '25 Earnings Conference Call hosted by Antique Stock Broking. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. [ Rushil Dedhia ] from Antique Stock Broking. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thanks, and welcome, everyone, to the Q4 FY '25 earnings call of Radiant Cash Management. Today with us, we have the management of Radiant. We have Colonel David Devasahayam, the CMD sir. We have Mr. T.V. Venkataramanan, CFO; Mr. Alexander David, GM, General Operations; and Mr. N. Muthuraman, Director and Strategy and IR. We hand over the call to MD sir for his opening remarks, post which we'll start the Q&A session. Over to you, MD sir.

Good morning, Rushil. Thank you for that. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for joining us today for Radiant's investor call. We are happy to report a stable performance for this fiscal year ended March 31, 2025, with a 10% consolidated revenue growth, 12.5% consolidated EBITDA growth and 5.8% consolidated PAT growth over the previous year. The key highlights for the year are: A strong thrust to improve direct business, which now accounts for 15% of our revenues, up from 5.2% last year; a healthy growth of 40% in revenues from Cash Van Operations with significant potential for further growth; launch of Radiant Insta Credit during the year, which has been well received in the market and opens up a much larger target market for our services; turnaround and the performance of Radiant Acemoney, our fintech subsidiary, within 18 months of our acquisition, Acemoney now accounts for about 6% of our consolidated revenues and the EBITDA of the company; improvement in the performance of Radiant Valuables Logistics though this vertical is yet to achieve breakeven. We have also taken several initiatives in operations to help and sustain performance in future years. These include: Strengthening the sales teams across all business verticals and launching several new initiatives in sales and marketing; several cost reduction measures which has helped improve core operating profitability; strengthen our risk management practices with the support of technology, which has helped maintain our cash losses at negligible levels; improved cross-functional collaboration between various business verticals, which helps harness better synergy benefits in the current financial year. At the same time, the external environment has been challenging during the year. The sluggishness in the consumption sectors in the economy had its impact on the core business of retail cash management. Headwinds faced in a few sectors in BFSI, including micro finance and personal loans, also had an impact on our revenues from this sector. The consolidated EBITDA margins showed marginal improvement from 17.51% in FY '24 to 17.91% in FY '25, largely on the back of cost control measures taken by the company and reduced losses from RVL and a turnaround in the performance of Radiant Acemoney. Our cash losses continue to be the lowest in the industry by a wide margin, a result of our robust risk management framework. We continue to maintain healthy Return on Capital Employed and Return on Equity. We remain committed to providing transparent updates on our progress and answering any questions that you may have. I will now request Mr. Alexander David to speak about the progress achieved in Radiant Acemoney, followed by Mr. Venkataramanan to speak about the financial performance and KPIs. Yes, over to you, Alex.

Thank you so much, sir. Good morning, everyone. Thanks for joining this earnings call. I would be presenting the update on Radiant Acemoney, our fintech subsidiary. I'm glad to inform you that Radiant Acemoney had an excellent year and clocked INR 219 million in revenues for the year, up from INR 34.8 million the previous year. The rapid scaling has achieved healthy EBITDA margins of 20%-plus for the year, contributing significantly to the overall consolidated performance of the Radiant Group. I would like to present a few numbers to put our scale of growth in perspective. We have installed 64,228 POS machines in the last financial year and has set an ambitious target of 90,000 machines for the current financial year. Our transaction volumes in the last year crossed INR 586 crores, establishing Acemoney as a reliable player in the fast-growing fintech market. Our key USP and right to win in this market are a strong pan-India network presence with stronger focus on rural areas where fintech presence is still in early phases of growth, a strong technology platform offering a wide variety of solutions, including AEPS-based cardless transactions, DMT, standard deposit withdrawal offerings, micro insurance and many others. Our ability to provide cash replenishment for micro ATMs in remote and rural locations, which should be a key advantage as volumes in the micro ATMs scale up over coming years. I'm happy to inform you that we have recently achieved PCI DSS certification. This milestone reflects our unwavering commitment to safeguarding data and providing highest level of security for payment transactions. We are continuously expanding both our geographical footprint as well as service offerings to address the untapped markets in rural areas where digital access is still below 50% for merchant outlets, providing huge opportunities for growth. While the focus of the previous year was to expand our footprint of POS machines and creating our own BC network, going forward, our focus would be to improve the transaction volumes in each of our outlets for sustained growth over the medium term. The current financial year is quite promising, both in terms of revenue growth and profitability. We will continue to provide regular updates on the progress of Acemoney to our investors as we scale greater heights in the coming months. I would now request our CFO, Mr. Venkataramanan, to present our financial performance.

Thank you, Alex. Good morning, everyone. Thanks for joining us on this investor call today. I will present the company's key performance indicators and financial performance for the year ended 31st March 2025. During this financial year, we added 86 new clients, 456 new end customers and 8,048 new retail touch points in our retail cash management business. Of particular relevance is a sharp increase in new end customers, which grew from 104 last year to 456 this year, reflecting our sustained focus on adding direct clients. During the last quarter, we handled INR 0.41 trillion of cash, representing 2.3% over same quarter last year. For the full year FY '25, we handled INR 1.68 trillion of cash. Today, we service close to 78,000 touch points covering approximately 14,000 Pincodes across 8,900-plus locations and continue to have the widest network in the industry. For the year ended 31st March '25, the consolidated revenue grew at 10.6% over the same period last year. This growth is lower than historical trajectory on account of sluggish consumer demand as well as challenges faced in micro finance and personal loan segments of the BFSI sector. The degrowth in our e-commerce logistics sector also contributed to this muted top line growth. On the other hand, organized retail, e-commerce and others reported healthy growth. In terms of segment performance, we witnessed healthy growth of 40% in the Cash Van Operations segment. Revenue from direct clients also grew healthy and now contribute to 15% of our stand-alone revenues as against 5.2% last year. Our DBJ segment is yet to stabilize and report a marginal -- and reported a marginal degrowth in this quarter sequentially. The management has redoubled its sales as well as cost reduction efforts and expecting them to stem the losses in this quarter. Coming to the financial performance. Our consolidated revenues for FY '25 at INR 4,334 million, representing 10.6% growth over last year. The consolidated margins for the year ended stood at 17.8%, an improvement of 31 basis points over the previous year. The improvement in EBITDA margins in this year were achieved on account of strong focus on cost control; number two, healthy positive contribution to EBITDA for Acemoney, our fintech subsidiary; three, healthy growth and contribution from our Cash Van Operations. The management is confident of further improvement in margins in the current year as well. The consolidated return on capital employed for the year was 17.1% and the return on equity for the year was 17.2%. I would like to highlight that ROCE and ROE for Radiant continues to be healthy because of a strong and clean balance sheet, very low cash loss levels, high fixed assets turnover ratio and strong working capital management. In summary, the revenue performance for the year has been muted due to macro factors of sluggishness in the economy as well as company-specific factors highlighted earlier. Despite muted revenue growth, EBITDA margins have improved due to stringent cost control measures undertaken by the company. At the same time, several sales and marketing initiatives have been taken across all verticals, direct sales, DBJ, Cash Van Operations, Insta Credit and our core business of retail cash management, and we believe these measures would reflect in better growth and margins in the current financial year. I now hand over the floor for question and answers. Thank you, everyone.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of [ Vikas Kasturi ] from Focus Capital.

Moderator, am I audible?

Yes, sir.

Yes.

Sir, I had a couple of questions. So one is, could you please lay out the road map for RVL? What -- I understand that we are scaling back on certain investments, but could you just throw some light on what -- where do you see this, let's say, 5 years from now? And what are the investments that you're making? And what are the investments that you're cutting down? Some idea on that? And the second question I had was on -- so there is this payments bank, Fino Payments Bank, and in their earnings call, they have said that their cash management, their CMS-related product and service, they are seeing lower traction on that. So -- and they've also stated similar reasons such as the pain in the MFI industry, right? So my question to you, sir, is it like -- are we also seeing some -- are we likely to see a bounce back in our CMS-related offerings? And the other thing that they have said is that UPI is an aspirational product for a lot of people. And so the switch from cash to UPI is happening even at the Tier 4, Tier 5 kind of locations. So your observations from what you have seen on the ground would be helpful, sir.

Thank you very much. I'll request our Head of Strategy, Muthu, to take on this.

Thanks, Vikas. I'll answer the second question first, which is that on the cash management, whether the disruption in the micro finance sector, is it going to have serious headwinds. It is not a very large portion of our this thing. So the total BFSI segment for us is about 33% of our revenues -- of cash management revenues. Within that, micro finance is not a very large segment. Having said that, the industry Sa-Dhan has put out an expectation that they expect the industry to bounce back and worst is behind them. And they expect about 15% to 17% growth in the industry AUM in the current year after a shrinking of about almost 20% last year. So we believe the MFI-related challenges are behind us, and we do see better performance from that subsector in the current year. Yes, UPI is an aspirational product. But as you can see, the continuous growth in cash in circulation, I think it's already crossed INR 37 lakh crores, indicates that cash will continue to be a dominant mode of payment in rural areas. As we realized in our Acemoney subsidiary, more than 50% of the retail outlets do not have any form of digital payment mechanism yet. So that is the opportunity for growth for Acemoney at the same time indicates the level of penetration of digital payments in the rural areas. So we don't expect any headwinds on growth because of growth in UPI as well. Coming back to the first question on RVL.

I think I'll take on. So now valuable logistics, as of now, there are only one or two serious players in the market as on date. There is definitely scope for one or two more players to come up. And as we have said, there are over 1,35,000 registered jewelers in the country. And these two players are themselves target -- are currently only servicing about 20,000 to 25,000 jewelers. So it's a huge opportunity for us. However, as we go to the market and now we are talking about valuable logistics, so that means the consignment value is very high. So it's going to take some time before the traction actually happens and we start getting larger and larger consignments and we are willing to be there for the long road, for the long haul. And the other thing I want to point out is that before you start with the first consignment, you already need to have the full infrastructure across the whole country. Because wherever you require -- they require to send the thing, we need to -- the consignment, we need to have it. So these are the reasons as to why there is some amount of cash burn in that, which we're not unduly concerned about, and we are gradually moving quickly towards a breakeven situation in this quarter or in early next quarter. So that's the target for us. This is a long-term strategy for us, and we are very deeply committed to it.

If I may just request, the operational numbers that you put out for the cash business is fantastic, sir. Could you start sharing similar numbers for the jewelry business also, the RVL business, which is in terms of metric tonnes of DBJ that you've moved or something like that, if you just give us some idea that the business is progressing? That is just a request, sir.

Suggestion noted because it is not material. Today it is 1% of our revenues, just about 1% of revenues. So we've not given this thing, but suggestion taken on board. We'll see what we can do.

The next question is from the line of [ Zakir Naseer ], who is an individual investor.

I think congratulations on your decently healthy set of numbers, considering last quarter, there was a drag in the economy as a whole. Sir, Colonel, I appreciate your thoughts on the valuable business, sir, and I would want to hear a little more of your thoughts on this, going forward next 3 years, how do you see this valuable business panning out. And what kind of margins do you expect? And also, sir, number two is what -- broadly, what kind of loss did you do in the business in the current year, which may not be there in March 2026, sir?

Well, we definitely will have no loss in March 2026. That's the target that we are currently looking at. And with regards to your question over the next 3 years, my hope is that gradually at least it will contribute to about 20% to 22% of the overall revenue will come from this business. I'm talking about the third year from now. So -- but we are deeply committed to this area. It's one of the areas that we are looking at very closely, because it represents -- I mean, valuables are something that -- that's so deeply appreciated and which is always showing so much of growth in the Indian economy. So we are very deeply committed to it in the long term.

Zakir, if I may add a few points. Every global player has a very strong presence in the valuable logistics segment, and it contributes significantly to their revenue as well as bottom line. And in fact, India being the largest -- fastest growing and largest market for gold anywhere in the world, there is no reason why we should not have a reasonable presence in this market. We're getting our acts together, and being a listed company, we're a little cautious in going ahead and disclosing big amounts on events, exhibitions, advertisement, et cetera. We're going it in a calibrated and deliberate manner. You'll see the results of it over a period of time.

And what -- I mean, in March '25, what kind of loss would the valuable business make, sir?

We'll not be able to exactly pinpoint that because many of those are joined this thing as in some of them are -- many costs are common. For example, van, guard, drivers are used between both put together. But if you have to -- so we're not putting out an exact number there because it will not be appropriate as in we have not done the scientific costing appropriation between RCMS and RVL. But the direct costs, et cetera, it will be contributing -- maybe about 5%, 10% of our profits would have been affected because of that.

And sir, to add, would valuables -- definition of valuables only be subject to a jewelry kind of or gold items? Or can it be industrial valuables like microchips and stuff like that? I mean would it have a broader connotation, sir?

Currently, we are looking at the diamond, bullion and jewelry market. That's what we are focused on.

The next question is from the line of [ Abhishek Chawla ], who is an individual investor.

So the way our business is structured, whenever there is a dip in our revenue, a decent chunk of that is taken out of the operating profit. So this Q4, our revenues is around...

Sorry to interrupt, sir.

Sir, your audio is not clear. We can't follow. Can you speak a bit...

Is it better now?

Yes, please go ahead.

Yes. So the way the business is structured, whenever there is a dip in revenue, a decent chunk of that dip is taken out of the operating profit. So this quarter, the dip in revenue was around INR 6.6 crores while the operating profit only dipped by INR 3.4 crores. So I feel the decrease in revenue has not fully impacted the operating profit in absolute terms. So could you just share the method which helped you save this?

No. As we've mentioned -- as Colonel mentioned in the opening remarks as well, we are taking strident (sic) [ stringent ] cost control measures, okay? So that is one reason. Second is that the inter-division collaboration has become a lot more robust now between RVL and RCMS and Insta Credit and all of that. So that's also helped improve our operating efficiency. So that's why despite a muted top line growth, in fact, sequentially a drop in top line growth, we are able to report a slightly better, improved EBITDA margins for the full year vis-a-vis the previous year.

Okay. So earlier, you said the jewelry business will have a stand-alone network of itself. So now is it fair to assume that you are using the operational leverages or the efficiency leverages that you had, you're using them right now?

That's right. Yes.

Okay. And the second question is, as per RBI data, the micro ATM number has marginally declined. So what's happening in that space?

See, there are some small disruption in equipment availability that may have affected. But otherwise, that industry is a huge this thing as in untapped market that. So I think RBI itself has put out some very lofty goals for the numbers to be achieved and they're backing it up with strong regulatory support as well for that.

With the strong presence that we have, particularly in extreme areas of the country where the deployments are relatively thin, we are leveraging that, and those are the areas that we are concentrating on.

Okay. And lastly, the POS machines, which we have distributed till now for this FY, how much of them are still operational? Like out of the approximately 65,000 distributed, what percentage is like still active or some of them have just abandoned the POS? Do you have the numbers on that?

No, no, no. All of them are operational. I don't think there is attrition in that at all. I mean, these are just -- During the year, we have added this 64,000 machines. We do not have any information on attrition. Our aim is to get adequate transaction volumes in each of those. Yes, that varies by a wide volatility. There are some which do no transaction at all, but some will do a huge number of transactions. But our aim is to get all the machines to get transacted so that transaction volume is a lot more sustainable than the POS revenue.

The next question is from the line of [ Gurjot Ahluwalia ], who is an individual investor.

Can you hear me?

Yes, sir.

Yes.

So first thing I wanted to know is around the EBITDA margins...

Sorry to interrupt, sir. We were not able to hear you. I would request you to please repeat your question.

Can you hear me now?

Yes, sir.

Yes.

So looking to this -- through FY '19, FY '20, FY '21, I was looking at the EBITDA margin, right? So the EBITDA margins were always above 20% through all those years, even the first year of the IPO, right? But since the last couple of years, there's been a huge drop in those margins. And I know there have been investments into new line of businesses, but then what is the expectation that these EBITDA margins could revert back to 25% kind of levels, right? Or this is the new normal and we are not expected to get there anytime sooner?

Yes. See, our EBITDA margins is a direct function of our operating leverage. So if you see the same period, the historical revenue growth has been fairly healthy. Different reasons that we highlighted, the revenue growth is muted. So the way our business works, it's a fairly high fixed cost structure of vans, guards, drivers, employees, et cetera. And then incremental points added in the route add significantly to the bottom line. So the muted revenue growth, for example, this quarter because of the MFI and personal loan crisis means that our revenues are growing at a lower rate than our cost. Ideally, any growth in revenue above our cost growth rate, which is inflationary -- inflation-related growth 8%, 9%, any revenue growth above that will add significantly to our bottom line. So our aim is to get the revenue growth at mid- to high teens, which will automatically translate to much better EBITDA margins from where we are today.

Okay. But is there any guidance?

I will not put out any specific guidance as yet.

The next question is from the line of Krushi Parekh from BugleRock PMS.

Krushi Parekh here from BugleRock PMS. I have one question, and pardon me, I've not gone through your earlier [Technical Difficulty]. Can you help me understand what are the key operational differentiation that we have as a result of which we enjoy one of the lowest cash loss percentages as compared to, say, maybe other players in the industry? And what are the key operational differences that we do that others are not able to replicate?

Well, I think this is clearly dealing with our operations. And all I can say is that we have a very strong ex-service set up, which is there. And integrity is a very important part of the organization as a consequence. And so our fidelity losses and all are negligible. So it's more a culture in the organization where we look upon it as a -- each region looks upon it as something to be very upset about in case there is a cash. And so it's kind of got ingrained into the culture over the last 1.5 decades.

So one of the key attribute that you would assign to is that the integrity, the culture that we enjoy within the organization? And of course, beyond that, operational efficiencies are there for sure. Would that be correct assessment?

Yes. And also, every region wants to do well and wants to prove. So they really focus on the process and procedures. And the fact that the essential bedrock or the intrinsic structure of the organization is largely ex-service in nature, that has helped us a great deal.

Okay. Okay. That's helpful. My second question is that now that we have about 15% of our business through our direct approach versus coming from the bank, what is it that the company has -- how is the company structured? And how is it approaching the entire space now that we are approaching to the customers directly? And what kind of solutions are we offering which we have not been able to offer earlier?

Currently, you see the thing is the nationalized banking sector, by and large, nearly 57% of the nationalized banking sector has not so far got into this kind of outsourcing. But all their end customers are in need of the support and services. So therefore, now our target is to target these customers, and see as to how many of them we can now recruit or enroll them as our direct customers. So that's the reason why we are seeing this kind of growth.

The next question is from the line of [ Sanjay ], who is an individual investor.

My question is with respect to any strategic acquisitions we are looking at? Like...

Sorry to interrupt, sir. I would request you to please use your handset. Your audio is not clear.

Am I audible?

Yes, sir.

Yes.

My question is with respect to any strategic acquisitions we are looking for. For example, AGS Transact Technologies, which is in severe doldrums. Are we looking at such kind of strategic acquisition of companies which would improve penetration -- market penetration?

We are always on the open for looking at acquisitions that fits into our overall larger scheme of things. But not looking at any specific. We are looking at -- as in the way we've done our Acemoney acquisition, it has proved to be a very healthy return on our investment. So we are open for looking for acquisitions but in a fairly calibrated manner.

The next question is from the line of [ Sanjeev Damania ] from SKD Consulting.

Am I audible?

Yes, sir.

Sir, I want to know that how the month of April and May have progressed towards acquisition of newer client or increase in the businesses. And because the cash carrying is getting reduced, then is it likely to be a trend because we are moving for digital payments and all that. So is it likely to get reduced in the days to come, I want to know from you, sir?

Well, UPI and digital payments is definitely a factor. But we are largely based on the cash in circulation. The cash in circulation is a healthy about INR 36 lakh crores to INR 37 lakh crores as of now. So you must always look upon them as two parallel streams of transaction. There will be digital transactions also and cash transactions also parallelly happening. So I can only say one thing that April numbers have been better than our March numbers. And March was the last month of the year -- financial year. So the positive trend that there has been an increase is very heartening.

So are we acquiring customers in the current year, sir, in terms of collecting cash or movement of costly goods as courier services?

Sorry, we didn't follow your question. Can you repeat, please?

Sir, have we acquired newer customers in the current year, which can enhance our business?

Yes, it's a continuous process. Every day we add new points. And every month, we add new customers. It's a continuous process. Yes, we are adding.

Okay, okay. And sir, I understood this way that we also carry costlier goods as a courier service. So is my understanding correct, sir, about our company?

Yes. We do carry diamond, gold, silver and the jewelry and bullion as a service that has started about 1.5 years back. And it's just still a very small portion of our revenues, less than -- about 1% of our revenues are from non -- other than cash.

Okay. So can this become a big business in years to come sir?

Yes. Yes, 100%. That business is fairly large and in fact, bigger than the cash management business in terms of industry size. So it can become fairly large.

And are we really orienting ourselves for acquisition of more customers like Titan or other jewelry companies?

Yes. We are looking at many corporate customers also parallelly, along with medium and small scale jewelers as well. So corporate customers are definitely a part of our targeted market.

The next question is from the line of Rishikesh from RoboCapital.

Sir, my question is, what has to happen for us to grow at high teens? And do we see such a level of growth rate in FY '26 onwards?

Yes. So we are taking several sales, marketing initiatives as well as adding more banks to our portfolio. And -- so the market is fairly large. The number of retail outlets that is eligible to use the service of this nature will be in the order of 50 lakhs in our estimate. And all the players put together hardly cater to 3 lakhs. So we do have a fairly large untapped market. It is not yet -- as an outsourcing of cash handling has not been a mainstay offering by banks and it is positioned as a premium value-added service. We are trying to break that and offer this at really low cost to the customers. The cost could be as low as INR 2,000 per point per month. It can start from as low as that. So we are trying to break that premium mold to make it universally acceptable. Every customer can start using this, every business customers can start using this. And we have a wide variety of product offerings. If there's a single outlet, they can use Insta Credit. If it's a chain outlet, they can use our two-step banking. And if it's a pan-India outlet, they can use our Network Cash Management services, et cetera. So a wide set of offerings so that we can cater to every type of client. And market potential is huge, so we are expecting that the growth rate will be fairly healthy in the current year.

Okay. So what sort of growth and EBITDA margins do we see in FY '26? Basically, if I have to see last many quarters, we have been growing at touch points. But then our revenues have been fairly in a flattish range. So that is where I'm coming from.

Yes, we have given a guidance, a slightly longer-term guidance, not specifically for FY '26, of mid- to high teens in revenue growth, and that should help us improve the EBITDA margins much better because, as I said, it's a high operating leverage business. We've not put out any specific target number yet on the revenue and EBITDA for FY '26.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of [ Chandramouli ], who is an individual investor.

Sir, you are talking about the logistics, where the transaction volume is sustainable. Is the increment revenue comes from the transactions or it's only the POS machine where you charge something and you get the revenue out of it?

Alex here on the Acemoney. The POS, when we give the device to the customer, that's just a onetime revenue. But after that, all the transaction volume which happens with that device, that is the actual revenue.

So you have incremental revenue based on the transaction, am I right?

That's correct.

Okay, okay, okay. And you're talking about the growth, you don't want to comment on the growth, but earlier you were saying about the mid- to high-teen growth over the period of next 3 to 5 years. At least is that plan is intact?

Yes, yes. I just now commented on that same thing. We have not put out a specific number for FY '26, but midterm growth of high -- mid- to high teens is very much on course, 15% to 18% growth in top line CAGR over the next 3 years is very much on course. That's our target that we work with.

The next question is from the line of Abhishek Chawla, who is an individual investor.

Regarding the valuable logistics, as Colonel sir mentioned, that we need an upfront intra to have the clients. So now my question is, how much -- what percentage of that infrastructure has been deployed? Like are we looking to have more infra or it's like done in the last 6 quarters?

With regards to the infrastructure, you see the advantage we have is that we already have quite a bit of that infrastructure which is concurrent along with the cash logistics infrastructure, but also specific with regards to software that is required or specialized vehicles which are required. So we do require that kind of infrastructure. We are focusing on certain sectors as of now for growth, so where the traction has already been seen. And thereafter, then we'll move into a completely pan-India kind of configuration. So we are focusing on what we call certain specific lane growth traction that we are looking at right now.

Got it, got it. So if the infra is ready for a certain segment, like you mentioned, like the key hubs of jewelry, if that works successful in the coming quarters, then you will deploy more for pan-India network. Did I get that correct?

Absolutely. You are right.

Okay. And regarding the Cash Van Operations, like that has grown tremendously. So what is your going forward plan for the cash van?

Cash van is, again, a very important segment. And currently, there are over 7,000 to 10,000 cash vans currently deployed all over the country. So it's a huge opportunity that we are looking at right now. And it also gives us significant return on investment. So we are looking at particularly the new contracts which are coming up. And this is one area where you'll see a lot of growth in the coming years.

The next question is from the line of [ Sudeep Samanta ], who is an individual investor.

What is the cash balance in our book, end of FY '25, like March '25, what is the cash balance?

Cash balance, we have about INR 80 crores of cash balance.

INR 80 crores?

INR 80 crores.

Okay. And what is the Acemoney revenue this quarter? Even last quarter, you guys are doing like INR 15 crores, INR 17 crores. So this quarter?

Acemoney this quarter.

Acemoney, the full year is about INR 22 crores.

Yes, that's right.

Last quarter, you guys say like INR 15 crores, INR 17 crores like revenue...

INR 15 crores, I think it was for the 9 months.

Nine months.

INR 15 crores was for 9 months and INR 21 crores is for the full year -- INR 22 crores is for the full year. This quarter, Acemoney did a revenue of about INR 5.5 crores.

INR 5.5 crores. And going forward, what is the future about Acemoney? It would be growing like that only? Or like slowly, gradually it would build?

No, we are expecting -- so we have a target of almost 90,000 machines, a target of a very, very ambitious transaction volume. So it's going to be much higher than the guidance what we predict.

And second thing, like our core business, every quarter, we say we have to achieve more than 20% EBITDA, but still we are lagging. Still, we have 17%, 16% EBITDA. So going forward, at least we hope we can achieve more than 20%. Isn't it, sir?

Absolutely, that's the aspiration. And deeply loyal to our shareholders and looking at it. So that is definitely the aspiration.

The next question is from the line of from Dhairya from Northeast Broking.

So sir, what I understand is majority of the gold and valuables are imported. So now suppose if a consignment has arrived at the Visakhapatnam port, and now there's a retailer who has to deliver it -- hello?

Yes, please.

Yes, yes, go ahead.

Who has a retail outlet in Mumbai. So how do we transport that, because operationally, it is not viable to go via roadways. So what is the split between the airway cargoes and the roadway cargo? And also, how do we hedge against the prices of the airway cargo as the airway cargo prices keep on fluctuating? Do we have any tie-ups with particular airlines or something air cargo? Or how do we do that, sir?

Yes. Alex here. Yes, we do have tie-ups with some of the major airline players. And because we already have our presence across the country, handling our cash logistics, our last mile connectivity is also very, very strong. So yes, we have a connection with all the airway vendors. And at both sides, at the port receiving, origin and the receiving branch, we have our people mobilized, and we deliver the consignments within a certain time line requested by the customer.

Perfect. And what is the split between the air cargo and the by road cargo, sir?

We're about half. So 50-50, 50% by air and 50% is done by road.

And sir, my final question is, does RBI permit to carry both cash and valuables in the same van, I mean during the same logistics, the same route or something? Or it is mandated that cash should be handled in a separate van and valuables should be handled in, I mean, different van?

We don't see...

No, there is no mandate as such from the RBI. But normally, no logistics player will mix the two. Cash is a separate entity, a separate commodity. And for hygiene requirement, is always maintained separately. So cash and valuables are really never mixed with each other.

Just to add, the timing of the requirements is also very different. Cash is between 10:00 to 3:00, where the banking hours are versus the movement for valuables is largely in the night. So we can -- while you can use the same set of assets, it is not simultaneously cannot be transported.

Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.

Thank you very much. It's so nice to get such wonderful questions from the shareholders. In conclusion, I'd like to say that the overall performance for the year has been stable with marginal improvement in profitability. The operating leverage that had helped report healthier performance in FY '23 and prior years was affected in the current year due to muted revenue growth from the core business. With renewed focus on sales initiatives across all the verticals, we are confident of improving the performance in the ongoing financial year. I'm confident of considering the trajectory with the help of our new initiatives, to tap the huge opportunities for growth supported by a very strong management team. I want to express my gratitude for your continued support to Radiant. We are confident that our sustained efforts will lead promising results for all stakeholders. Thank you all for your time and your continuing interest in our company. Thank you very much.

Thank you. On behalf of Antique Stock Broking, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.