Rainbow Rare Earths Limited (RBW) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hello, and welcome to the Rainbow Rare Earths Investor and Analyst Call. My name is Dan, and I will be your coordinator for today's event. Please note, this conference is being recorded. [Operator Instructions] I will now hand you over to your host, George Bennett, to begin today's conference. Thank you.

Good evening, everybody. It's George Bennett from Rainbow Rare Earths. Thank you for joining me on this call, and it's just basically to give investors an update on Rainbow and just to create more awareness for the Rainbow story, which I believe is a very, very good story. The significant new story for Rainbow is the acquisition of our assets in Phalaborwa late last year in South Africa. This is a resource, which has been created through 50 years of hard rock mining of phosphate rock deposits next door to Phalaborwa, which is a mining town in South Africa, a very well-established mining town with great infrastructure. This mining company, called Foskor, mine phosphate hard rock concentrate through a flotation process, and pump the concentrated phosphate next door to a phosphoric acid plant owned by Sasol, the industrial conglomerate in South Africa. What Sasol then did was they used this phosphate -- concentrated phosphate feed as a feed into phosphoric acid production process, and the phosphoric acid produced is then input into the fertilizer industry worldwide and obviously for South Africa. This took place over a period of some 50-odd years at the site in Phalaborwa. And once the phosphoric acid was produced and went through a number of stages of being produced, there was gypsum residue created in the formation of the phosphoric acid. And this gypsum residue was then deposited onto 2 stacks at Phalaborwa in the form of, as I said, gypsum residue. Now at the time of the mining of the hard rock at Foskor, there were trace elements of rare earths in the phosphate hard rock, but not in any economic quantity. With the concentration through a flotation process and then shipping next door to form the feed for phosphoric acid, the rare earth elements were initially upgraded in the phosphate concentrate which, as I said, was pumped next door. And then in the creation of the phosphoric acid and through the various stages of the gypsum creation before bringing out onto these 2 gypsum stacks, we have further concentration of the rare earth elements in the gypsum, which now looks as if they are very, very attractive from an economic point of view. And I need to stress that the initial Sasol results indicated that the grade of the total rare earth oxides and these gypsum stacks was grading at around about 0.6%. We have since drilled out the stacks completely. And the -- and we've had -- we've released the first set of assay results. We'll be releasing the second set of assay results shortly, but the indications are that the stacks are grading slightly lower, around about 0.47% to 0.5% TREO. But very importantly, the rare earth basket of the gypsum that we've seen, which indicated that we had between 29% and 30% neodymium and praseodymium in the rare earth basket, that percentage has been maintained. And very importantly, we've been able to prove that the mineralization in the gypsum stack is very homogeneous in nature. The reason why it's homogenous in nature is that the gypsum sits on chemical form-only stacks. In other words, through the phosphoric acid production process, a lot of heat and sulfuric acid and nitric acid was added to the phosphate concentrate, and this basically effectively cracks the grade to the platform, which was deposited on the stack. So our stacks on chemical form and if you look at any rare earths project around the world, you're going through a couple of stages. The first stage is really is producing rare earth concentrate as we do up in Burundi, and I'll talk about Burundi later. That rare earth concentrate is then sent to another processing plant, which other produces a mixture of carbonates or mixture of oxides. And in the final stage in the rare earth process is separating the individual rare earth elements into rare earth -- into the individual rare earth oxides. Now in Phalaborwa, we have gone downstream into the first phase, which is -- because the gypsum sits in a chemical form, some 7 years ago, built a pilot plant, and they produced a mixture of carbonates. In other words, they were able to go downstream to the first stage of value-add and the rare earth process, which is producing a mixture of carbonates. And this, I might add, excited me when we first started looking at this project. Not only was the grade, very good, and when I say the grade is very good, if you have to compare the Phalaborwa asset to ionic clay deposits that they mine in China -- ionic clay deposits in -- again they called -- a company called Ionic Clay. This is an ASX. There's an ionic clay deposit called Tantalus, which was listed in Frankfurt many years ago, I think it was. And that's a Madagascan ionic clay deposit and there's one in South America. And the Chinese ionic clay deposits. These ionic clay deposits normally grade 0.03% to 0.08% TREO. And at Phalaborwa, it's running at about 0.47%. We are 10x higher grade than an ionic clay deposit. And the reason why I said that is because like ionic clay deposits have very, very low mining cost is basically made you have to move into a processing plant. The gypsum some stacks would be mined in a very similar manner. We just wash the gypsum into a channel and then into a pop that feeds into a processing plant, which would then produce the mix of carbonate as Sasol did about some 7, 8 years ago. The reason why this opportunity came about is because Sasol were forced to sell the phosphoric acid plant due to competition ruling in South Africa about 10 years ago, which was declared that they're operating in monopoly. While they fought this declaration, they went down the arbitration process. There was a 2.5-year period where the phosphoric acid plant stood idle on care and maintenance. And when Bosveld Phosphates bought the plant and try to restart the plant, they could not successfully get the plant going. There were too many failures of varying heating pipes bursting, pumps failing and so forth because the plants have just stood too long and coupled with that of dropping the phosphate price. It wasn't economic when they restarted this plant. And so the plant's been on care and maintenance for some 7 years. And the deal we did with Bosveld was that we were able to secure 70% of this project for an earn-in fee to produce a pre-feasibility study by the end of this year, and we're well on target to do that. And basically, it created this opportunity for Rainbow to secure this deposit for a very -- a reasonable price, I might add. So the key thing about Phalaborwa is it's a game changer for Rainbow. We've got unbelievable infrastructure that comes with the project. We're in the middle of a mining time. We've got skilled resources in terms of skilled and mining staff that sits within the time with operating mines that still operates at Phalaborwa. We've got 2 rail siding that served our sites. We have all the infrastructure from the mothballed phosphoric acid plant at our disposal that includes workshops, machine shops, administration offices, laboratory, which we have to reequip, high-voltage switchyard for good power sits at the base of the one stack, and we have all the OEMs associated with the mine though. In other words, the original equipment manufacturers and depots in Phalaborwa servicing other mines. So we have a very, very strong infrastructure sitting around this project, which is like none other that I've come across in Africa, unlike other projects where you're in the middle of the bush somewhere even if you haven't good power servicing you or possibly around it servicing you. That's all you've got. We haven't got all the associated infrastructure or skilled workforce you can choose from. Plus as I say, a fully equipped mining town that can service your plant should you need spares and supplies and so forth. Palabora Mining Company next door is a phosphoric acid plant that's some production. One of the key ingredients to go into our process plant would be sulfuric acid, and we have this on our doorstep. So as I said, your cost of your reagents is greatly reduced and the fact that we have the site infrastructure available to us makes me believe that this will be a very low capital-intense project compared to other rare earth projects out there. And the third key thing to note is that because of the gypsum stack sits in chemical form, what's known as your cracking process, has already taken place. So a huge part of your flow sheet has been done for Rainbow without us having to spend the CapEx or the OpEx to get to that stage. In other words, we haven't gone -- we haven't had to go down the road of producing a rare earth concentrate and then cracking it into chemical form before we then produce a mix rare earth carbonate. That whole cracking and concentrate process have been taken care of us already, and we don't have to incur that cost or that OpEx. So I strongly believe that for the phos project we have here, we are going to be a very, very low capital intensity project compared to other rare earth projects, which normally, as I mentioned, hundreds of millions of dollars of CapEx, never mind OpEx. We will be way, way down on both of those parameters. Another key point is that neodymium and praseodymium that we've thought was very high, we also didn't realize at the time when we secured the project that we have a very high terbium and dysprosium credits as well, which is a pure bonus to the project. So our initial indications are we think we will produce about 2 point -- we'll treat about 2.2 million tonnes of gypsum per annum, which is about a 17-year project life. And basically, we will -- as I said, we'll go straight into producing a mixed rare earth carbonate. And very importantly, the neodymium and praseodymium metal equivalent in our carbonate will be around about 2,900 tonnes per annum, which makes us one of the major, major producer of neodymium and praseodymium outside of China. And with our dysprosium and terbium credits, the project would generate about $250 million of revenue per annum at current rare earth pricing. And this, I think, is key to understand this, this kind of revenue, with EBITDA margins we expect to achieve Rainbow's Phalaborwa project is going to be highly, highly profitable. Another key point is that because we -- this is already mined, it's a resource that sits on service -- on surface, I should say, and all the resource will be mined will process 100% of these gypsum stacks. That means we can get into production very, very quickly compared to other rare earth projects that are in development stage around the world. In other words, your cradle to grave for a project when you find a piece of ground with a potential resource in it, you're looking at 7 to 10 years. With Phalaborwa, we're looking at sort of 2 to 2.5 years to get into production. As I said, we have to achieve a pre-feasibility by the end of the year, which we are on track to do. But very importantly, we also funded to produce a PEA, preliminary economic assessment, which we're hoping to have done by the end of July, which we believe will show the unbelievable economics of this rare earth project. And as I said, we're funded to be able to do that. We are currently undergoing a [ test rec ] program in ANSTO in Australia, one of the key rare earth laboratories in the world in terms of experience and capability. And ANSTO in Australia are busy conducting leach tests so we can optimize the Sasol flow sheet, which we know works. That flow sheet, as I mentioned earlier, produced 3 tonnes of a mixed rare earth carbonate from 7 years ago. So we know the project has been largely derisked with these, where they've been able to extract the rare earths out of the gypsum successfully. And all we're doing is trying to optimize it because that flow sheet was developed about 10 years ago. There obviously have been advances over the last 10 years, which we're going to take advantage to Rainbow Rare Earth, which we believe will lower our CapEx further and lower the OpEx of the project as well. Moving on to Burundi. We also have a very, very good project in Burundi. At the moment, we've been trial mining there for the last 2.5 years. We're successfully ramping up our trial mining every month. And by the end of this year, we will expect to be strongly cash flow positive in Burundi. Burundi is a very high-grade rare earth project. We do need to drill it to prove the resource is big enough to sustain 10,000 tonnes of concentrate production per annum. At the moment, we are just starting to achieve between 80 and 100 tonnes a month of concentrate production per month, and which means about 1,200 tonnes per annum, but we're hoping to ramp that up when we build a full-scale commercial clients at 10,000 tonnes per annum of concentrate production. The Rainbow concentrates at Gakara is one of the highest grades in the world at grade of 54% to 56% TREO, which the only higher grade concentrate in the world is produced by Mountain Pass in America, which grades at about 50%, 60%, 58% TREO. All the other projects around the world are significant below us in terms of concentrate grade. And actually [indiscernible] grade in Burundi. At the moment, it's also one of the highest in the world running at about 12% to 14% in our trial mining plant. As I said, by the end of the year, with everything going well in Burundi, we expect the trial mining operation to hopefully hit 200 tonnes per month of production, which will make us cash flow positive in country, which I think will be a very good target for Rainbow to achieve out of the trial mining operation. We know we have a very, very big resource in country. It's a very, very big mineralized system that sits within our mine license area, which we've got a 25-year license granted to us by the Burundi government with 2 10-year options for renewal. So we've got a long life of mine there in terms of our mining license. And we just have to draw the asset in Burundi and to prove that our JORC exploration target we can go to an unfair target and Burundi as well as show that we've got the resource to support 10,000-tonne production concentrate plant for a period of 15 to 20-odd years in Burundi. So between the 2 projects, we believe that we'll be one of the highest -- one of the largest producers of neodymium and praseodymium metal equivalent and carbonate in the world, second only to Mountain Pass and possibly similar in size to Lynas Corporation in Australia. I think that gives an overview of Rainbow and our 2 projects. And I'll open the floor to questions now.

[Operator Instructions] The call has now concluded. The host will be back shortly. [Operator Instructions] Thank you all for your patience. We have our first round of questions and answers from the host. [Operator Instructions] George, I'll hand it back to you.

Thank you. Thank you for the question. Yes. The question I got, who is producing the [ hot ] sulfuric acid production nearby? Palabora Mining Company, which is a copper mining company. They have sulfuric acid production plants right next door. And we would take a feed from them, and they do have excess production available in their sulfuric acid plant because the PMC, Palabora Mining Company's copper production is not what it was originally. So there's no -- so they had good spare capacity in their sulfuric acid production plants. And as I say, would be a key ingredient feeding into the rare earth's process facility next door at Rainbow we set up. The other question I've got, what we aim to treat, as I mentioned earlier, we are looking to treat 2.2 million tonnes per annum of gypsum through our carbonate plant that as I said will be optimizing the flow sheet of this resource [indiscernible] on the pilot plant will still be in a test. And we were able to reuse this pilot plant as part of our [indiscernible] deal with Bosveld Phosphates. And basically, as I said, we are expecting that we will produce about 5,400 tonnes of mixed rare earths [indiscernible] mixed earths from this carbonate plant. But -- so very importantly, we're looking about 2,900 tonnes of neodymium and praseodymium oxide recovered and a very big creditor in terbium and dysprosium, which will -- those 2 credit will add about $50 million of revenue to the project. Any other questions?

And we are receiving some more questions. Stand by while the host deliberate. We'll be right back with your answers. And thank you again for standing by. The hosts have returned with more answers to some of your questions. [Operator Instructions] George, I'll turn it back to you.

Sure. Thank you. So one of the questions was, I think if I understand it correctly, the difference between moving down to carbonate and then an oxide. So at the moment, as I said, ourselves and Mountain Pass and Lynas for that matter will produce -- in Gakara, we produce a mix rare earths concentrate. And that concentrate, you've got the majority of your rare earth elements, which are on mineral form. Lynas ships their concentrate to be separated and want to be cracked and then separated in Malaysia; with Mountain Pass and Rainbow from our Gakara Project in Burundi ship our concentrate into China. At the moment, the concentrate goes to processing plants there that other producer mix with carbonate where they will take out the waste material and that carbonate, and they would generally produce what they call [indiscernible] depleted mixed earth carbonate. And at that stage, you've added value to your concentrate and you've gone, as I said, downstream in terms of value add. And then the final stage is where you would do the final separation of the rare earth elements that sits in your mixed earth carbonate or sometimes you produce a mixed earth oxide, which is [indiscernible] carbonate. But then you will produce individual rare earth oxide, so you would strip out the neodymium in oxide form, the praseodymium in oxide form, your terbium, your dysprosium into the individual rare earth elements, which are then in an oxide form, which is basically your metal with oxygen components in their form that you've separated. So those -- and once you go to your final stage downstream, those individual rare earth oxide that you produced would then be settled to the various users for those rare earth oxides to go to the various uses that they're going to from the defense systems to permanent magnets and so forth. Hopefully, that answers that question. In terms of [indiscernible] into China and offtake, the moment for the Gakara project in Burundi, we have an offtake agreement with Thyssenkrupp, the German multinational. And this offtake agreement sells their concentrate into China. And at the time when Rainbow started production, the Chinese with many rare earth buyers of concentrate, as Mountain Pass of America do as well. But of course, the whole world now is looking to alternative supply sources outside of China. From a strategic point of view, having a separate supply chain for the rare earth elements outside of China. So at the moment, we are -- as I said, we do have an offtake agreement for our Gakara production to go into China. But the Phalaborwa Project, which should produce about 3x the neodymium and praseodymium metal equivalent than Burundi, we have not started any offtake negotiations for that material yet. And we do believe that there might be an alternative area to sell this for want of a better way for me to put it. But yes, we do believe we'll be able to develop other markets for the Phalaborwa production. But as we know, the whole world is forecasting a massive deficit of rare earths, especially neodymium and praseodymium and for that matter, dysprosium and terbium. Dysprosium is also quite an important element for permanent magnets. So the fact that we've got this in Phalaborwa is also a bonus, as I mentioned earlier. But you'll have to see how that develops. So I've also been asked the question about I feel our stock trading at a discount and where our stock should be trading. Yes, I strongly believe that our stock is at a discounted. If I look at some of those rare earth projects out there that are not mainly as good as what we have in Burundi as well as what we have in Phalaborwa, I believe we're very, very undervalued. And I don't take it lightly. Our CapEx indications for going downstream with the Burundi production, in other words, to take -- if we achieve our 10,000 tonnes of concentrate production per annum which I believe we will do quite comfortably. And we go downstream to produce a mixed rare earth carbonates, the amount of rare earth metals that we'll produce in our carbonate will be equivalent to around about 2,900, 3,000 tonnes of metal equivalent that's across all the rare earth elements in our carbonate. And we'll be able to achieve this for comfortably several hundred million dollars of CapEx for both the concentrate plant as well as the carbonate plant. And if we look at somebody like Northern Minerals in Australia, which is -- which have got a feasibility study out there for them to go downstream to produce mixed rare earth carbonates and there was similar metal equivalent as Rainbow's Gakara Project. You look at their market cap compared to Rainbow, just on Phalaborwa alone, we should be trading a lot higher than Northern Minerals. And then we've got this fantastic project in Phalaborwa. And as I said, the fact that we are so well positioned from a -- in terms of the fact that we don't have to pack our materials in Burundi -- our site in Bujumbura and Phalaborwa because it's already packed. So a huge part of our CapEx, a huge part of our flow sheet that's been taken care of, I believe that we will have also a very low capital intensity project sitting in South Africa. And if you look at the production that we're going to achieve, we are -- that alone as well is worth a considerable amount. So yes, I think we should be trading multiples higher on where we are now. And I believe as we produce our final assay results on Phalaborwa, we produce our JORC resource statement in Phalaborwa, which will be quite a high classification in the JORC resource, the way we'll put our JORC resource. In other words, it will be further than inferred will be [indiscernible]. I do think that there's a lot of upside in the Rainbow share price. And also, we hope to, as I say, we funded through to producing a PEA or a scoping study by the end of July. And I think on the back of that scoping study or PEA, we will show the considerable project economics of Phalaborwa and I think that will demonstrate how undervalued Rainbow is compared to any other project out there anywhere in the world. And as I said, we are very, very -- we have [indiscernible] project. Fortunately, before I joined the Rainbow team, I ran a test [indiscernible] started and ran MDM Engineering, which was listed in London. It's a mining engineering business that bought 22 mines throughout Africa. And I have got experience in developing and do feasibility studies in developing projects on grassroots through to final production. And I've had lots of fast track experience, and I'm confident that with the team I've got, which is some of them are ex-MDM technical experts, engineers, I should say, and process engineers, we will be able to fast track the Phalaborwa project as well into production. And then finally, I think this last question was similar to the one about our offtake agreement. Yes, we had a big move to -- of trying to get processing of rare earth elements outside of China and the whole world is trying to focus on this and find alternative sources. So I do believe there will be processing of various downstream processing of rare earth concentrate created outside of China. And that will be a huge opportunity for a company like Rainbow, who have the ability to produce feedstock for processing plants that sits outside of China. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] The hosts are back with another series of answers. George, I'll return the call to you.

Yes. Thanks for that. Just another question has been, I think, if I get this right, it's when we produced 2.2 million tonnes. So the 2.2 million tonnes is what we will design our focus plant, carbonate -- or our carbonate plants to our feedstocks. In other words, we will be seeing 2.2 million tonnes per annum as the head feed tonnage, and that will give the project about a 17-year life in South Africa. And very importantly, this project is a chemical processing project. It's not a mining project. So that makes very minimum requirements in South Africa nonexistent for this project. Hopefully, that will answer that question. The second one is what's the significance of our initial grade being reported at 0.6, and it's been at 0.47. So the initial grade at 0.6% TREO, total rare earth oxide, was reported by the initial Sasol grade samples that they took off these gypsum stacks when they were building their pilot plants. Since then, we've drilled these stacks completely. They're completely drilled out. As I said, we released our assays. Our final assays will be out within the next week or 2 weeks at the most. And these are confirming that the grade is marginally lower than Sasol's initial indications running at 0.47% to possibly 0.5% grade TREO. There's another impact on the project at all, as I mentioned before. Even at 0.47%, if you compare this to an ionic clay deposit and you compare this to the grade of mining clay minerals, which is Lynas in Australia or the Tantalus Project in Madagascar or the Chinese deposits, this is still 10x higher grade than those projects. So really very comfortable with this grade. And as I said, we've picked our production forecast in terms of neodymium and praseodymium and dysprosium and terbium at the slightly lower grade. And as you can hear, we're expecting between $220 million to $250 million of revenue, just out of Phalaborwa alone based on current rare earth pricing. The next question is a question, which I think is slightly misunderstood because the question is, where we see a direct drive, I think with wind turbines or lithium-ion batteries being replaced, and therefore, rare earth elements are being acquired in the batteries. Now rare earth elements aren't going to batteries. The rare earth elements are not used in the batteries at all. And that's why all these battery metals that go into the nickel batteries are slightly aggressive because that technology is changing all the time. In other words, when the first electricals came out, the first test came out their batteries were huge amount of cobalt and since then the cobalt is reduced, there's a bit more copper, there's a bit more lithium and so forth. So -- and then you got uranium batteries being promoted. So the battery technology is not 100% confirmed for this electronic or this electric vehicle revolution. But what -- however what is not in dispute is that permanent magnets which go into the electric drive motors for wind turbines and for electric vehicles, that technology is not going to change in the foreseeable future. And it's -- that's where rare earth elements come out. Rare earth elements, be it neodymium, praseodymium and a bit of dysprosium go into the formation of permanent magnets. And what permanent magnets do is they enable the electric motor to be far smaller. So you use less copper, which obviously reduces the cost of the motor. And very importantly, a lot more power. So you get a lot more power out of a smaller motor and that enables your battery life to increase. And that's why permanent magnets are so important in the electric vehicles is because it allows your -- the main drive motor to be smaller, using less copper and to have a lot more power and that in turn gives you a longer life out of your battery. And [indiscernible], everybody, I'm sure, realizes is trying to get a longer life out of all the batteries that are going to the electric vehicles. And when it comes to wind turbines, a 3-megawatt wind turbine, that drive motor, direct-drive wind turbine takes up to 2 tonnes of rare earth elements for 1 wind turbine. So now you're talking about wind turbines being -- going up to 5 megawatts, individual wind turbines and up to 10 megawatts. Now 10-megawatt wind turbine is going to take in order of magnitude of 7 tonnes of rare earth metals per wind turbine, and that's quite a scary thought, which is why a lot of analysts are starting to predict that the forecast of the shortage of neodymium and praseodymium and dysprosium for permanent magnet is going to be far greater than what was originally thought with this green revolution taking place. And talking about the green revolution, I might just add that the Phalaborwa Project has also got very strong ESG credentials. Both our projects, the project in Burundi and the project in Phalaborwa have really low levels of uranium and thorium. So we don't have to do anything to remove the uranium and thorium in processing of the 2 sources of rare earths. In other words, we don't have a second tube in Burundi to take out uranium and thorium. Our levels are so benign. We ship on the high seas and export into China consistently way below the radioactive levels that they stipulate. And we don't use any reagents in Burundi to produce our concentrate. We don't use any flotation. It's a very simple gravity circuit, which produces a very high-grade concentrates. And that makes it probably one of the greenest projects out there from that point of view in Burundi. And then secondly, at Phalaborwa, the gypsum that sits on these 2 stacks, we've got 35 million tonnes of gypsum on these 2 stacks. They're all associated with acid water because this is -- was a result of phosphoric acid production. When we treat this gypsum and put it into our new rare earths processing plant, we will be utilizing the acid water that is associated with the gypsum and we will be depositing on a new stack, which is permitted by the way, a new stack site will be depositing a clean benign gypsum, which makes our Phalaborwa project an environmental cleanup project. And that's the reason why we should be getting a very good rating once the ESG firms are aware to the fact that both the projects in Rainbow are very, very green. And when it comes to prominence, with more and more end users are looking at, we believe that will score very highly when it comes to looking at the prominence of our material that goes into their cellphones or the magnets that make them vibrate or the motors that make the electric cars propel forward. And then yes, lastly, there's a question, I think, on when we foresee the Phalaborwa Project going into production. As I mentioned earlier, we will have the scoping study done by July this year. That's our target. And by the end of the year with a pre-feasibility study done on Phalaborwa, which is part of our earlier agreement. And I would expect us to be at a bankable stage early in the second quarter of next year, and I would expect us to be executing the project on the ground. In other words, putting the spade into the ground and start building the processing facility at Phalaborwa during the third quarter of 2022 and full production towards the end of the third quarter, beginning of the fourth quarter 2023. That's when we finish building the plant, obviously and then going and ramping up into -- through the commissioning stage and ramping the plant up into full production. So I would say, and as I said, fourth quarter next year, we'll start building the processing facility. And 2 months later, we should be at full production thereabouts. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] George, I will return the call to you.

Thank you once again to everybody on the call. There's a question around about how will we fund the CapEx of Phalaborwa post the DFS. We would expect to do debt funding by 75%, 80% debt and the balance through equity. We have had discussions in the U.S. with the DFC, which was the rebirth of [indiscernible] which is the U.S. government sort of debt funding branch with the U.S. government and the DFC have already interest -- indicated interest in Rainbow and talking to us regarding the debt funding. But I think on the back of the very positive PEA, I don't think the debt funding [indiscernible] by that stage will be a bankable feasibility study on the back of a very positive bankable feasibility study, so I don't think debt funding will be a problem. The other thing was just clarifying about whether producing carbonate doesn't need to be Chinese process. If I understand the question correctly, yes, we were producing -- we will be producing a mixed rare earth carbonate at Phalaborwa, so it will be going downstream and digging it ourselves. We don't need the Chinese to do this. It's not a big -- it's not a very difficult process. Sasol have done it already. We understand the flow sheet. My technical team have been involved in 2 previous rare earth projects in terms of doing the bankable feasibility studies for the Lofdal rare earth project in Namibia and the Peak rare earth project in Tanzania. Both the process engineers who worked on those studies worked for me at MDM Engineering, and they're both part of the Rainbow technical team. So going downstream and producing a carbonate is not exclusive sort of patch of the Chinese, and we'll be doing it at Phalaborwa. In terms of phosphate calendar, I did mention earlier that from securing the project to basically putting a spade in the ground, which we think is we have to achieve the fourth quarter of next year. That is a very, very fast track project. I'm going to show you for any new project being developed. And a year later, we'll be in production, which is sort of 10 to 12 months later. 2023, we'll be in production. And I think that concludes all the questions for the evening. I appreciate everybody's time on the call. And hopefully, I've been able to answer the questions satisfactorily. And hopefully, it gives everybody a better picture of the Rainbow story, and hopefully, you'll be supportive. Thank you very much.

Thank you all for joining this evening's conference. You may now disconnect your lines. Host, please remain connected.