Raiz Invest Limited (5HK.F) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hey. Good morning, and thank you for joining us today at our 2023 Annual General Meeting. My name is Kelly Humphreys, Chair of the company and Chair of today's meeting. I'll begin by acknowledging the traditional owners demand on which we meet today, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation and of the other lands from which people are joining the meeting today. We pay our respects to the elders past or present. It's now 11 a.m. and with a quorum present, I declare the meeting open. I also confirm that the meeting has been properly constituted. I'd like to introduce the Board and management team who are in attendance today. We have Philippa Taylor, Non-Executive Director, to my left; Brendan Malone, the Managing Director and CEO to my right; Alex Gao, our Chief Financial Officer, who is online. We also have Grant Brits, our Chief Operating Officer; and over -- in the left hand corner from me and George, we have [indiscernible], joined us as Head of Marketing. We are also joined today by Jon Brett and Robert Hines, our newly appointed Non-Executive Directors who we'll shortly commence with today and forward. We have Jeshan Velupillai, our representative from BDO, our company's auditor; and Max Crowley, our company's Secretary supported by [indiscernible]. It's great to have shareholders here in person today, too. We had a much bigger room last year with less people in it, so today's a little cozy. We extend our welcome to you and also to those shareholders joining us on line. This AGM is being handled as a hybrid meeting. The virtual component is being held via the Computershare online meeting platform. This allows shareholders, proxy holders and guests to attend the meeting virtually so attendees can intend to an audio webcast of the meeting. In addition, shareholders and proxy holders have the ability to ask questions and submit votes. Both shareholders and proxy holders participating online can submit questions at any time. [Operator Instructions] Please note the questions will be addressed at the relevant time in the meeting and may be moderated or, if we receive multiple questions on one topic, amalgamate it together. Due to time constraints, we may run out of time to answer all questions. And if this happens, we'll answer them in due course, either via e-mail or by posting those responses on our website. The shareholders and property holders present in person, you will also have the opportunity to ask questions on the matters being considered today. All questions should be addressed to me as the Chair. I will either deal with the question personally or ask someone who is better placed to respond. We will do our best to answer all relevant questions raised. Voting on all resolutions today will be conducted by poll to allow shareholders time to log in. I now declare the poll open. Online voting will remain open until I declare it closed at the end of formal business and your votes must be submitted prior to the portal being closed for them to be included in the results. Today, our meeting will start with the Chair's address, followed by a presentation from our Managing Director and CEO, Brendan Malone. We will then move to formal business to be considered for decision. And at the end of formal business, prior to closing the poll, we will take questions. Before we begin, I confirm that as announced today, Philippa Taylor has made the decision to resign as Non-Executive Director of Raiz. Resolution 2, dealing with Philippa's reelection have gone withdrawn. I would like to acknowledge Philippa's strong input to Raiz, particularly with respect to the skill and expertise that she's applied in supporting the development of our new strategy and in supporting Raiz with complex human resources issues. We thank Philippa for her time in the company and wish her well in her future endeavors. I also confirm that our newly appointed directors, Jon Brett and Robert Hines, will commence their term with us effective from the close of today's meeting. Moving to my address. This past year has been an eventful one with the ongoing uncertainty of the global environment, along with the legacies of natural disasters or pandemic, resulting in reduced investor appetite and the rising cost of living impacting many Australians, including our customers. Despite the ongoing volatility of the operating environment, we're very pleased that Raiz has maintained and grown our customer base this past year. We believe that this is testament of the attractiveness of our user-friendly platform and evidence that our products resonate strongly with our customers, who continue to demonstrate loyalty and trust in the Raiz brands. In line with our vision to be Australia's leading direct growth platform, the Board and management teams have worked together, implementing our refreshed strategy aimed at building a sustainable and more profitable business model. As reported throughout the year, our strategy repositioned the Southeast Asian operator model and shifted our efforts to the Australian business. As a result of this strategy, our financial performance has stabilized with a significant reduction of annual expenses and improved cash flow management achieved during the year. The Board is confident that we are now very well positioned for continued growth and delivering on the key pillars of our strategy to attract; retain and reengage active customers, to develop innovative new products and services that our customers value; to manage the efficient use of capital and preparedness for future opportunity; to maintain resilient and secure systems, data and processes; and build brand awareness and their reputation as the leading wealth management platform. We've had some internal change this year. We've got Harvey Kalman and Stuart Grimshaw stepping down from the Board due to taking up executive appointments. And as we recently announced Mr. Jon Brett and Mr. Robert Hines joining the Board as Independent Non-Executive Directors. They each bring extensive experience and will help to ensure that our company is well supported in delivering on our strategy. Brendan Malone assumed the role as CEO and Managing Director in September 2022. Brendan has a deep understanding of the Raiz business and is committed to leading the team to deliver our objectives. He's worked incredibly hard to reposition our company this year. Brendan will shortly provide you with the sense of what has been achieved and how we will strive for improved performance and success in 2024. We are pleased with what we have achieved this year. Notwithstanding that, the Board remains keenly aware of the expectations of our shareholders. Together with Brendan and the team, we are working hard to execute on our strategy and restore the value that we know Raiz should rightly reflect. We continue to appreciate your support and your commitment to the company. Along with the support of our shareholders, the successful future of Raiz relies on the support of our customers, trusting us with their savings and our people who work hard to deliver great outcomes. Thank you for your ongoing loyalty to Raiz. I now invite your CEO and Managing Director, Brendan Malone, to address the meeting.

You, Chair. Good morning, all, and welcome. Since our last AGM, we have achieved a lot. As we all know, FY '23 was a tough year all around and Raiz Invest had some challenges. This time last year, I stated our short-term goals were to focus on efficient capital deployment and the restructure of operations to execute on our strategy and to prioritize product development. Despite a higher-than-expected economic background, we delivered. I echo what our Chair has said, which I think is so important. Despite the ongoing volatility in the operating environment, we are very pleased that Raiz has maintained and grown our customer base this past year. We believe this is a testament to the attractiveness of our user-friendly platform and evidence that our products resonate with our customers who continue to demonstrate loyalty and trust in the Raiz brand. I am a shareholder. And unlike you -- and like you, I'm not happy with the rate of customer growth this past year. However, during this time, we have delivered for our most important relationship, our customer. Not only have we maintained and grown the customer base, we have also strengthened our relationship with them by delivering exceptional customer support and always putting our customers first. At a high level, some key achievements on the screen include we remained Australia's largest mobile-first services -- financial services platform; global active customers increased 5% over the financial year '23; and global funds under management increased 20% over the financial year '23. We managed our cash, improving our ROI by deploying capital in the correct places. We continue to receive industry recognition for our world-class product offering, including being named in the CNBC's Top Global Fintech Companies. There's only 7 on the list from Australia, and we also won Best Fintech App and Website in Australia. On group results, I'd like to highlight our significantly improved group economics, a cost reduction, 83% permanent reduction to the ongoing cost base, 96% reduction of adjusted normalized loss from the previous year. We maintained our world-class financial services cost of acquisition in Australia of circa $21, which reflects less than a 6-month payback. During the year, we reset our strategy, refocusing on the core Australian business. In Indonesia, we significantly reduced our cash burn. We achieved good early progress with a local partner to take over the day-to-day operations under a technology and brand license. However, these negotiations have since stalled and we're in the progress of closing operations. The closure process in Indonesia is lengthy from a regulatory perspective, however, we have budgeted the associated costs and will not require at any further capital. In Malaysia, we are in the process of finalizing the funding requirements from our joint venture partner. This additional funding will see the Malaysian operations be supported by new marketing campaigns, and we'll also finalize product enhancements for the customer base driving growth. Thinking about the performance of the business and considering the external environment over the year, including 13 interest rate rises and the impact of cost of living, I believe we have done well. You can see from the metrics on the slide why we reset our strategy to focus on the core Australian business as it continues to deliver strong unit economics, even before the fee increase on the 1st of August this year, which is allowing us to significantly increase our annual revenue. At the same time of the fee increase, we released the most innovative feature in the market of any of our competitors over several years, the introduction of Raiz Plus. This groundbreaking new feature creates a bespoke investment opportunity -- investment experience for our customers. Raiz now empowers users to build fully personalized portfolios, including ASX-listed companies alongside the existing ETFs, Bitcoin and our Australian residential property auctions. We are seeing an increase of over 25% month-on-month of users in Plus since launch. With our renewed focus on Australia, we are very excited to be building on our strong partnership with Seven West Media and announced the next phase of the media spend with a $5.5 million media investment ready for 2024. The new Raiz Your Game campaign will first air during the BBL Cricket series and will be featured in the Boxing Day Test featuring Trent Copeland, then continues through the year with Abbey Holmes covering the AFL and the AFLW seasons. The Raiz Your Game campaign was developed in collaboration with Seven West Media's Red Engine creative team who have designed and built a fully integrated campaign from crafting the strategy and securing the media to developing the creative and managing the assets. This campaign will be live leading into a period where Australians typically set their New Year's resolutions and financial goals, and we look forward to seeing Raiz being promoted in more places more often through 2024. The quarter -- so the September quarter update, a quarter of redefining product innovation and cash flow. We are very pleased with the significant turnaround in operating cash burn in this quarter compared to the previous quarter, a burn of $2.3 million versus an inflow of $287,000 at, the operating level. The total normalized revenue for the raised platform accrued in the September 2023 quarter was $5.16 million, up 20.4% on the prior corresponding period and 16.8% on a quarter-on-quarter basis. Also we introduced a fee increase effective from the 1st of August. The September quarter receipts only included 1 month of the collection. Minimal customer churn was experienced following the fee increase, which is a strong testament to the value of Raiz's product offering and customer loyalty in today's economic climate. Quite simply, we are delivering the right product at the right time. Our September quarter revenue run rate annualized would see an annual increase in revenue of over 28%, and we continue to see a decrease in annualized cost as the restructure is finalized. Raiz is the market-leading online investment platform being ranked as one of the highest-rated financial services among its peers. This puts us in an inevitable position to leverage on our addressable market. A recent ASX study found a subset of non-investors who intend to invest in the next 12 months of AUD 1.33 million. At Raiz, we recognize that there is a significant opportunity for further penetration of the adult population for our not-yet investors, providing an easy entry into wealth management at low cost. These industry dynamics are supported by Raiz's a strong track record of turning non-investors into first-time investors. Raiz's capabilities create an option to unlock early millennials as well as Gen-Z and older customers during the accumulation phase. With our marketing campaign in place, we are set to attract our share of this market. In summary, we have made through a tough year very strongly, and I will continue to deliver on growth and innovation with attributes being the #1 leading platform. We have a highly engaged digital investment platform unlocking financial freedom and driving customer growth. We have industry-low CAC. We have the best-in-class marketing engine driving industry-low -- driving this industry-low CAC. Customer experience. We have a strong and credential-ed management team and staff with extensive financial markets, marketing and brand and technology experience. Innovation. We have a robust pipeline with significant cross-sell opportunities to capitalize on the data-rich product suite we hold. And the technology, a proprietary full-stack technology platform enabling scale, growth and providing customer data analytics. And above all, we're financially well positioned. The operating cash flow is positive. And we have an unincumbered balance sheet. Our key strategic plans looking forward include product development, a defined product development roadmap informed by our customers will deliver innovative new products that they value and need. Our active customer base, building active customer numbers with the goal of achieving over 500,000 active customers in the next 3 years. This will be achieved through stronger brand awareness and cause-to-action in partnership with Seven West Media driving attraction, conversion and customer retention rates. Our revenue growth. We continue to cross-sell our revenue-generating products to our customer base and increase the reengagement rate with our customers on the app. Strategic partnerships. Develop appropriate partnerships that can improve our reach within the Australian mark with a special focus on asset regulation offering. Our financials. Continue to reinforce the company's financially sustainable position with a focus on total shareholder return and earnings per share. And our people. Lift the leadership capabilities and talent and continue to develop and retain our high-performing team. As we look at headwind excitement, we will continue to review and remove unnecessary costs and complexity from our business. We'll execute on our strategic initiatives to deliver shareholder value and a safe and innovative product offering for our customers. I would like to sincerely thank shareholders for their continued support. Thank you to the directors, Kelly and Philippa, for your support, mentorship and direction. To our customers who have been so loyal to us, never shy on calling us out and keeping us honest and asking for innovation, development or improvements. Please keep this up. Last but not least, the awesome team at Raiz. You have all supported me in many ways over the past 12 months and change. We continually look after each other, our customers and drive for growth and improvement personally and in the business every second of every day. Thank you. Thank you once again for the opportunity to address you. I'll now hand back to our Chair, Kelly, for the formal items of business. I look forward to shareholder questions later.

Okay. We now move to the formal business of the meeting. The notice of Annual General Meeting was provided to all registered shareholders. As previously advised, voting on all resolutions will be conducted by poll. For the purposes of the poll, I appoint Barry as a party of Computershare, the company's share registry, who have examined and prepared summaries of the proxy forms received to act the containing officer and to conduct the poll. Please note that online voting is now open and will remain open until the poll is declared closed. All votes must be submitted prior to the poll being closed in order for them to count. Those attending in person who are entitled to vote on poll are all shareholders, representatives and attorneys of shareholders and proxy holders and hold yellow voting cards. If you're attending in more than one of those capacities, you will have been issued with as many voting cards as you have separate capacities. If anyone believes that they're entitled to vote on this poll in any capacity and does not have a yellow voting card, please raise your hand now and a member of our share registry team will assist you. For shareholders attending in person, at the appropriate time, I will ask that you mark your vote for the resolution on the yellow voting cards provided. If you're a shareholder and wish to cast all of your votes for a resolution, please place a mark in either the for or against or abstain box next to that resolution. If you wish to split your votes, please write the number or the proportion of votes you wish to cast in the corresponding for, against or abstain boxes. Please note that the sum of the split votes must not exceed of total holding. If your summary of votes does not have any discretionary votes, you do not need to mark your voting card and you simply need to hand it to the returning officer at the end of the business of today's meeting. Those in attendance, after all resolutions have been considered and voted upon, insert your special voting cards in one of the ballot boxes that will circulate in the room. Are there any questions in relation to the voting process? Proxies have been inspected, and all those ballots we lodged have been accepted. Votes are being received representing 27,386,862 shares or 29.31% of the issued capital of the company. All undirected proxies or open votes that have nominated the Chair of the meeting as their proxy will be cast in favor of each resolution being considered today. The first item of business is to receive and consider the company's annual financial report for the year ended June -- 30 June 2023. The financial report and the reports of the directors and the auditors form part of the annual financial report. This item is for discussion, and there will be no votes on the item. The company's auditor for the 2023 financial year, Jesh Velupillai, BDO - with BDO Audit is present to take questions relevant to the conduct of the audit and the preparation and content of the independent auditor's report. Are there any questions on the report or questions on the conduct of the audit and the preparation and content of the auditor's report? We will now proceed to the resolutions set out in the notice of the Annual General Meeting. Resolution 1 is to consider the adoption of the remuneration report as an ordinary resolution. The resolution and proxies received in relation to this resolution are shown on screen. Those physically in attendance, please mark your voting instruction on your voting card. Online shareholders can vote on this resolution via the online voting portal. Once you submit your vote, you should see a green tick confirming that the vote has been received. Resolution 2. This resolution has been withdrawn, and this will be reflected when the results are announced to the ASX. Resolution 3 is to consider the ASX Listing Rule 7.1A, approval of future issue of securities as a special resolution. The resolution and the proxies received in relation to the resolution are shown on the screen. Those physically in attendance, please mark your voting instruction. Online shareholders can vote on this resolution via the online voting portal. Once you submit your vote, you should see a green tick confirming that the vote has been received. Resolution 4 is to consider the adoption of equity incentive plan as an ordinary resolution. The resolution and the proxies received in relation to the resolution is shown on the screen. Those physically in attendance, please mark your voting instruction. Online shareholders can vote on this resolution via the online voting portal. Once you submit your vote, you should see a green tick confirming that the vote has been received. Resolution 5 is to consider the approval of issue of performance rights to Brendan Malone, CEO and Managing Director of the company, as an ordinary resolution. The resolution and proxies received in relation to this resolution are shown on the screen. Those physically in attendance, please mark your voting instruction. Online shareholders can vote on this resolution via the online voting portal. Once you submit your vote, you should see a green tick confirming that the vote has been received. Resolution 6 is to consider the renewal of proportional takeover provisions as a special resolution. Resolution and proxies received in relation to this resolution is shown on the screen, Those physically in attendance, please mark your voting instruction. Online shareholders can vote on this resolution via the online voting portal. Once you submit your vote, you should see a green tick confirming that the vote has been received. That concludes the resolutions to be voted on today. As noted, we are conducting a poll on all resolutions, and I confirm that the poll is already opened. We will now move to addressing shareholder questions.

Do we have online questions?

There are 2 online and both with respect to the address that Brendan provided. The first references the address where it says what is your process in International [indiscernible] fee with budgeted associated costs so it will not require further capital. The question is how much has been budgeted to close the international business? What is the time line? And if you don't know the time line, how can you have budgeted the cost?

Well, we have -- the answer to that is that we have moved to close Indonesia in line with earlier announces. Earlier in the year, we were looking at an option to close, which was going to cost an excess if $2 million. So we made the decision to work with a partner to try and transition that. More recently, it has become apparent that those negotiations had sold and we're moving to close. In the budget, we have $700,000 to cover those closure costs. The time line is not definite because -- simply because of the regulatory environment in Indonesia. But we know that we don't need to put in any more than that. That 700,000 is considered more than adequate to cover it for that period of time that it takes to get the official regulatory approval to close the [ post ].

There was a follow-up question from the same shareholder. With respect to the statement that the cost reduction has been 83% permanent reduction to the ongoing cost base. The question is, is the company saying that the cost base is now only 17% of what it was last year.

So keeping in mind that there was a cost base of about $31 million last year, and we're sort of down now below that. It came down to $27 million and then it's still coming down since the incident. I can get back to you on the exact numbers that we're expecting, but as we know, we don't put out forecasts on our -- either our revenue or our costs, but we've rejected and renegotiated contracts over the last 12, 14 months. That's all we know, yes.

There are no further questions online.

No questions from the room?

I have a question. I'd like to understand more about the capital position and cash flow of the business. I think in the last cash flow report, it said we had $7.8 million in the bank and I think a cash burn of around $800,000. I also understand we've got a regulatory capital requirement. So my question is, what is the size of our cash requirement? Is it kept here? Or in Asia? And how much runway do we have at current burn before we get that...

So at the end of September, we had $7.9 million of cash as Brendan pointed out. We have regulatory requirements for cash of now $5 million. We have got cash flow positive operations. It's important for you to note that with the fee change, that represents an extra $300,000 per month or $3.5 million per annum revenue increase. And with the reduction of ongoing costs of around $4 million mark, we believe that capital is still strong and will carry through to the execution of the strategy that we have focused in Australia and Southeast Asia.

I have a follow-up. I know you talked about the operating cash flow positive, but I saw in the cash flow report about $900,000 in investing activities. Could you explain more what they are and whether we expect that'll continue to drag down the cash position of the business?

That is the CapEx sort of allocation on the balance sheet. It is coming down. A lot of that was in Asia, and it's just continuing to wind down. For the September quarter, we did have a spike in costs associated with the Plus rollout on the 1st of August, so, yes, we expect that costs would come down quarter-on-quarter.

So at a general level, do we expect to be cash flow positive, including investing in financing activities soon?

Soon.

On the same topic. Can we just clarify, because you always say operating cash flow but it's not kind of the business you're operating. So what's outside that? When we'd be seeing general costs, [ gen ] cost and finance costs, which I presume is on lease…

Rental.

So rent and then the cost…

Don't have any debt.

Right, debt. So just rent and some dev costs that are outside operating cash flow. And so if you take away the word operating, when do we get to cash flow positive?

As we said, we don't put out a forecast, but we're heading in the right direction. If you look at the numbers that were out there, including 1 month of the fee increase collection, pretty much modeled there and you can a good idea. Let's just wait and see when the December quarter comes in.

Sure. And just another follow-up on the -- we've locked them. So saying cost is down $4 million, I'm just trying to reconcile that 83%. It strikes me as a pretty good number, 83%. I'm very happy about it.

We're happy too.

Yes. But how do we get $43 million -- $44 million…

But it's on the annualized basis that we will be reducing our ongoing cost.

Oh, so it's a future number?

Well, it's -- we know what our go-forward costs. It will be down when we -- well, into this financial year. Because we've closed contracts. We've closed Asia. We've redefined our relationship up in Malaysia, and that all that will come out of the cost base from year-end.

I've got another [ clamped ], if you'll indulge me. By the way, thank you for having a hybrid meeting. Yes. Just trying to reconcile the Asia -- at the 21st of November update, it's a -- just instability. And the list of achievements since the last AGM, November 22, and one of the achievements is neutralizing Southeast Asian cash burn and not providing further operational capital. But then today, it seems almost certainly, another $700,000 going to the...

That's what we have budgeted, so there's no additional -- we've ring-fenced that $700,000. There's no additional to going…

I guess the other way is what Asian cost, say, last financial year or even since the end of last financial, what has Asian cost?

Now with -- the implication is going forward…

No, we don't -- we've never published the breakdown between the countries, but it is something I want to work with Alex moving forward for the half-year's coming up and we'd share that information when we're down to it.

It's maintenance fee, so…

There are still plans to do a deal with Malaysia to be a B2B software provider, is that right? Malaysia? I just -- I think there was an update today about -- Malaysia is now -- what has happened with Malaysia -- sorry…

I don't have, really -- even, Malaysia is -- we're working with a joint venture partner with PNB, and they are putting in the operating cash that's required up there.

I guess what I was reading that -- I understood it as changing the relationship to being a software provider, but that's not the case. Are you still a joint venture...

Well, it's changing the operating models from being an owner-operator to just an owner and not the operator on the ground.

So all the software doesn't change, which will be…

Licensing, yes, branding.

So licensing and branding, and that's appearing in the accounts for separate…

We will have generated revenue.

And presumably cost, and so will that be shown in the accounts as a separate thing, so you can see how that...

Provisioned and drawn. I have -- I'll talk to the auditors on the year-end, yes.

On the question on the marketing, I'm going from memory, so I can be totally wrong. But I think the first quarter was the $7 million deal and that launched acquisitions went down on the then previous year. And so looking at this report, we're placing a lot of faith in big growth. [ We were ] at $300,000, we're going to show you $500,000 in 3 years, that's a lot. What's different? Can you give me some feeling of what is different?

Absolutely. I can give you a very good feeling of what's different. For the first time in Raiz's history, we have a dedicated Head of Marketing, Emma, in the room with us. That's her job and that's all she does. Previously, marketing has been, let's just say ad hoc. But it's been a series of things, of activities that different people across the management team and, indeed, the Raiz team have done some good things in social media. We've done some good things in the media. We had the campaign that was set up with Seven West Media previously that just had the wrong message and did not work. So where we're at now is we've been developing and working very closely with Seven West Media to develop a fully integrated campaign that kicks off in January, goes right through the whole 12 months. It's all done in conjunction with Seven West Media and their coverage of cricket and their coverage of AFL. And I'm apparently going to be watching a Big Bash League when -- there are some initial things that go out in December. So it's the first well-structured, well-thought out campaign that is also looking to target, rather than the one message-fits-all potential Raiz customers. The program now is set to have messages that target then individual customer segments. So it's a program and a series of campaigns that we speak to the right customer with the right message at the right time. We've never had that, a full 12-month plan that's mapped out and had excess of $5 million being committed to and Seven West Media is incredibly excited about it. I think it's fair to say that. And they've given Emma and the team an enormous amount of support in this campaign ready to go. That won't be the only thing that's going to make Raiz be successful. Marketing is only one part of that. Internally, the team has been working really hard to reduce some of the barriers to entry that some customers, they sign up but they never convert to active. Well, they sign up and convert to active and then disappear or change their lives. So we want to be getting messages to them at all points of that life cycle to make sure that we're really engaged with them and we can retain those customers and keep them engaged with the Raiz brand no matter what is happening in their life at whatever economic issue that's impacting them, wherever they are, to educate, inform and support their wealth management. I hope I've done your presentation, justice. We're really excited about that, because it's something we're…

Okay. You say there's substantial difference in those at the time. I just have a follow-up on Emma. After the -- I saw you on LinkedIn, Emma. Emma is signed with a global brand. It's brilliant. It's something. I'm wondering why we're still -- it's global and Australia.

With brand and licensing grids in Malaysia. We're still got a bit some control over the brand there.

Our control over how the brand is seen.

Emma will be responsible for that?

Brand reputation.

I just have one follow-up on the acquisition. I think the update says $21 cost of acquisition and a 6-month payback. So I assume that's acquisition of an active customer. And I'd say on those rates, with only, I think, 5,000 active Australian customers in the last 12 months, does that mean we spent $100,000 on marketing? Or how do those numbers make sense?

Well, the marketing numbers are still -- are in the financial, so you can have a look at those yourself, over the growth. I think to both Andrew's previous point and to your point now is the first Seven West campaign was launched in the period of the federal election in a declining environment, economic environment, so it was a hard period. I think both -- going into businesses, would understand that as well. I think now what we've done is change the product, because even though all of the work we've done on the restructure and the operations, we also have got product innovation out in the last 12 months, and that is why now we're using our data. We're using our analytics. Emma's on board to create the opportunity to get that. But back to your question on cost of acquisition, it is the cost of a fully funded Raiz account and marketing expenses are all in the P&L so you can do the math.

Does that mean there's been a huge number of active customers, and then also checking, that means that the gap is only $5,000 in a year? Is that...

I think you can look through our -- we put out our numbers on a monthly basis, which is very helpful for you guys to work out to do your modeling. If you look at those, I mean, there has been a higher churn recently, which is definitely market related. We'll see a bit more churn this part of the year because of the seasonality of our customers and Raiz does what Raiz says it should do. It creates a savings account and we see withdrawal this time of year for Christmas. The old Christmas time of year, so the churn has been higher than we expected, but that is completely a market-related expense.

And I think conversely to that, it could lead up to Christmas potential fall away. The new year is a really positive time for Raiz in terms of a lot of our customers are looking at their New Year's resolutions. Everybody's got a draft of New Year's resolutions and one of those is savings, so that's how you're typically seeing us reaching customers. So we think the combination of that being part of the DNA of Raiz anyway, adding that marketing campaign, the launch of that marketing campaign at that time producing that frequency will really help us see an uplift for the new year.

A question on the NED, best practice is you buy up to 3x your director's [ vested ] shares. Are you looking to make the substantial investment in the company over the next period? Substantial, many…

I've been working at that since my first day. It was supposed to be appointed next month.

And the other is more just a statement. I like it when I hear the #1 focus of Raiz is the customers. I thought it should be equally between the customers and the shareholders.

That's an interesting comment, David, and I tend to agree that if we think about it from the perspective, the main thing that drives revenue to Raiz is customers. So in order to deliver for our shareholders, we need to wrap our arms around the customers and make sure they join us in lives numbers, stay with us, engage with us fully across the products, but…

Engaging with a large number of profitable customers, so that's just a statement rather than a question.

And can I please ask you a question on your raised a point about marketing. We're a mobile-first platform and I think management directly has gone through some of the exciting stuff. And so what's the -- I stand there, talked out to [indiscernible] 60,000 likes on Facebook. And we have a Twitter account and, frankly, we've maintained radio silence for a good part of the year.

We have.

Doing about that, that's a very expensive part...

It is and the new campaign that's coming in out will be well supported across all of those platforms. And as a part of the roadmap that we have for next year, our center of activity. You'll see us [ running regularly, coming up every sunrise ]. You'll see everything that we're doing as part of that cricket, AFL and summarized, getting that reflected in social media, constantly reinforced across every platform. And again, it's going to be a really structured regular system [ maintenance ] laid out in the market, which is, as you've pointed out, has been radio silence for quite some time.

With an exception of 1 post which related to a technical issue.

Yes. You're absolutely been bang on and we're changing that. Thank you all for your questions. Would all shareholders voting online, please now ensure that they have submitted their votes. I'll allow another minute before the poll is closed. If you have any questions in relation to the submission of online votes, please send them through the online Q&A function. For those shareholders attending physically, I now invite Barry, [indiscernible], to collect your voting cards. Everyone who intends to vote, submit your cards. Thank you. I now declare the poll closed. The results of the poll will be announced at the ASX as soon as they're available. That ends the formal part of the meeting, which I now declare closed. Again, thank you for your attendance today and for your continued support of Raiz Invest.