Ramsdens Holdings PLC (RFX) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, and welcome to the Ramsdens Holdings plc Interim Results Investor Presentation. [Operator Instructions] Before we begin, we'd like to submit the following poll. I'd now like to hand you over to Peter Kenyon, CEO. Good afternoon, sir.

Thank you. Welcome, everybody. Thank you for your time and in getting to -- if you like to know more about Ramsdens and how we're trading. So I'll go through the presentation and obviously welcome questions from everybody at the end. So that's a nice picture of a store. Moving on, you've got the disclaimer. Inside of our York store. So a bit of an overview of Ramsdens, if you like, where we've come from. So you look at the top left graph, profit before tax, a bit of a nice staircase, obviously interrupted by COVID. But the right-hand bar is the last 12 months. So H2 FY '24, H1 FY '25 is about GBP 13.5 million. And we draw that out really just to give you some thoughts around the gold price and where underlyingly the business is comfortable at and where it moves from thereafter. The right-hand side, again, you've got a staircase of the interim dividend in the dark green. And in FY '25, you have for the very first time, an interim special dividend. We'll come back to it, but that's really recognizing that at this moment in time, we feel we've got a following wind with the gold price that might not last forever and therefore, want to recognize and reward shareholders with some of that extra profit we are making. Strong financial position. Again, just 3 highlights for you. We'll put more detail on it, but solid balance sheet, GBP 54.7 million net assets, of which GBP 7.4 million is net cash and then 19% return on equity, so quite an efficient balance sheet. Diversified income streams, you can see the 4 key core schemes that we have, quite a balanced pie chart. Now again, it's a good solid position for the business. It means that we are countercyclical and generally have done quite well in whatever the circumstances have been economically. Moving on. So top left there, strong foundations. We've got that financial base. We've got cash to invest. We can leverage off our head office cost base. We are a cash-generative business. The computer systems are our own. I have 4 developers with a fifth joining me on Monday. All of our websites are integrated to our core operating system. If you were a customer in any one of our stores, that staff member will be able to see what you've done through the history of your relationship with Ramsdens. So it's a very good system designed for our own use. Certainly, 2 or 3 of our IT guys are geniuses in developing that system. We have a strong customer brand. We've worked hard at advertising. We have a strong presence on the high street, and that's a good differentiator when you think about some of the website operators that we will come up and talk about later. There is a trust in that you can walk through our front door and have a conversation with somebody face-to-face. We've been kind enough to and worked hard to achieve a 5-star Trustpilot rating. I think I've got a great -- the staff, we've got to recognize the staff here. They are superb. They try every single day to help customers with whatever they need help in. We have a strong culture. We look after customers. We adhere to the customer duty at ethos. The FCA authorization is embedded in the business, so we've got good governance. We've got a new Chair in Simon. Chris Muir has joined the Board. He's brought different dynamics to the Board. He's asked a lot of good challenging questions. And obviously, hopefully, that will improve the business as we move forward. Low staff turnover, investing in our people, and that's how we're trying to grow the business and talking about growing the business, our strategy really is unchanged. I've probably shuffled the order of these icons. So on the left of the page, you've got drive growth from the core estate and grow the online presence. They're now slightly linked together because they're very complementary. The pawnbroking website that was launched in November '24 and our Gold Bank website launched in February '25 are very much about driving customers into stores, and we can come back to those. If you look at our foreign currency operation, again, when we get to foreign currency, it's about click and collect, so the customers collecting the currency in the store. And then the jewelry also -- the jewelry website acts not only as a profit center in its own right, but it's also a catalog for all the stores to see what watches we've got, what range of new jewelry we've got and what secondhand jewelry we've got. So these are both complementary. We've opened a few stores in recent years. They're far from mature. And on that point, my mature stores are far from mature. They've still got opportunities to grow. And that drive that we have is something that will continue that continuous improvement. We've added new services. So the multicurrency card was launched in September '23. That's grown to 25,000 cards in issue now. We've got the international money transfer service, which soft launched in February. And we can relocate some stores, odd ones and 2. We were forced into one in Elgin during the year, and we've got a major refurbishment of our store in Musselburgh happening right at this moment. On the right-hand side, we have an established store model. That model works. I only have one store that, if you like, is in that, is it worth it test and whether I should close it or not. The rest of them are absolutely contributing to head office costs and beyond that. So we had a hiatus. That was really government -- change of government led with the change of government, new policies, what would they do? Budget has been and gone. We know that they have changed the rules around employers, national insurance. That to ourselves is about GBP 750,000, GBP 800,000 annual cost. But from a growth perspective, it was what would it do to the high streets, which retailers are saying what, how are they overcoming it? Some have closed stores, some are putting up prices. So we've taken -- that, if you like, is a new dynamic taking into our assessment of new locations. It's very much about who we're going to be next to, will it be there tomorrow and will we locate in an area of a town that is -- it remains, if you like, the community and the heartland of that town. So we've done a lot of research. I've got 3 more in legals. We've opened 2, and we have a significant opportunity to expand. So our growth strategy isn't changing. Maybe had a pause on new stores, but it's definitely now kicking on again. And then the last one there is something usually crops up with an acquisition. Most pawn brokers are enjoying the gold price currently. So that's a bit hard to ask them to sell at the moment, but we lie and wait, so to speak, to the right day. We have cash to invest. And I'm sure my phone number will be on speed dial should someone want to leave the market. So we've said in our RNS, profits expected to exceed GBP 15 million following a record first half. You've got the financial highlights that are there on screen. I don't propose to go through them because Martin will, but it's a great performance across the 4 core income streams. 2 new stores that have opened, 2 websites, the IMTs and the cards is mentioned there. And if you like an outlook, if you like a quick, again, overview where we sit, the Board is confident of the future. We'll deliver on our growth strategy and along with that continue increasing effect, that staircase I mentioned of profitability and rewarding shareholders. So what I'll do is pass on to Martin to run through the financials.

Thank you, Peter. As you can see in the P&L, we'll run through it fairly quickly. We do have a slide on each income stream individually where we'll get into more detail. But revenue up 18% for the 6 months, GBP 51.6 million, which is up from GBP 43.8 million. That 18% growth in revenue is pretty much filtered through to gross profit. You can see gross profit up 20%. So obviously, the big drivers of that growth is the purchase of precious metals at 30% and jewelry retail at 18%. But it's pleasing to see all 4 key income streams with growth during H1. In terms of store numbers, it's approximately 2 stores extra, if you like this year compared to last year. So that's a little bit of the increase in admin costs. But the bigger part of that increase is the cost of people. So the real living wage, which is our entry-level pay went up 10% in 2024, which is a big part of that increase in admin expenses. Obviously, what we do have to look forward to in April '25 is that 5% increase, which is now being put through and a further national insurance cost, but that's not in this H1 period. We have managed to pay down some of the RCF and the finance cost, you can see the benefit of that GBP 100,000 reduction in H1 compared to last year. And our profit before tax, GBP 6.1 million is up over 50% on the same period last year. We've got the pie chart there again, just showing the mix of that gross profit, which is very balanced across the 4 income streams. So looking at each segment individually. So gold buying or precious metals buying has been by far the biggest growth factor in H1, and that's been heavily influenced by the gold price. So you can see in the chart in the top left, the average gold price in the period was GBP 26.22. That's the 9-carat sterling gold price rather than the dollar price, which is often quoted in the media. You can see that's up substantially. It's around 30% up from last year at GBP 19.45. The price today is actually close to GBP 30. I think it's over GBP 30. So you can see it's moved up again substantially post period compared to the average in the period, which has also led to us, as Peter said, upgrading the full year outlook, particularly for this segment. We have launched a new website. So it was around February time when that went live. We've seen very good traffic to that website. So we used to have a gold buying website as part of our wider company website, which had other services on there. By separating it out, it's obviously got a more focus to it and the volume of traffic has been very strong. And we've also seen volumes of gold purchased increase post period end, which has led to that upgrade for the full year. We do have a choice when we buy gold and what we do with it, we can scrap it or we can retail it. So we always have that consideration of whether we repair it, refurbish it to retail and whether we scrap it and the differential in gold price to retail price is often a big factor in that and also the number of stores that we open. So if we open lots of stores, we obviously then would need to stock up more. So that's just something to be aware of in terms of that choice. And obviously, in a falling gold price, we could retail more of that stock and take more of that higher profit level because the value of the differential is much higher in that position. You can see the gold price has sustained that growth right throughout the period, and it's done that for several years now actually. And that's leading to a higher gross profit margin. So because we buy it on probably a 4- to 6-week cycle in terms of when we buy the gold and when we sell the gold, you can see the gross margin improvement as well during the period as well as the revenue improvement. And therefore, the margin has got better during this first 6 months. Moving on to revenue of jewelry retail, which has been, again, very, very positive, 18% growth in revenue and 18% growth in gross profit. So that's showing that we've been able to manage the margins across the various products and still keep that margin despite the input cost, particularly for the jewelry side of retail, having that higher price, higher input cost. So the pie chart in the bottom right of the slide just shows how the makeup of the revenue is mix. So we had about 1/3 of the revenue is premium watches. Now in the premium watches space, prices have been relatively consistent. It's obviously very little impact from any gold price change. And what's happened here is we've probably sold less higher value watches. We've bought more watches at a lower value and the average ticket has probably reduced very slightly. The growth in watches, therefore, is really lots of growth through volume. It's around 19%. So it's slightly higher than the overall average, and that's been very, very successful. If you look at the other 2 parts, the jewelry part, which make up 2/3 of the revenue, a lot more of that growth has come through pricing. So because the gold price is higher, we put our prices up because the input cost has gone up to maintain our margin. And whilst we've seen small incremental growth in volume, the rest of that growth has come through increase in pricing. We still are very, very good value for money. We still have the opportunity if we wanted to increase prices further given the continued increase in the gold price. Retail has been a real success for several years. You can see the chart in the bottom left, which shows the growth of retail, both in-store and online. And that's continued. That momentum has been very strong. And we've continued to invest in the stock levels to support that. So it's around GBP 1.7 million of extra retail stock in the half year, and there's around GBP 700,000 extra of gold stock, if you like, to support the gold purchasing segment as well. So that investment has continued. And if the revenue momentum continues, we'll continue to invest in inventory moving forward. The website is due another refresh as well. So we're investing in the website. And the website growth is 17% in the half year, so very close to the same as the stores. So both stores and website both performing very strongly. Moving on to Pawnbroking. You can see here that gross profit is up 11%. Revenue is only up 4%. And the anomaly there, if you like is that the recognizes credit losses, this is expected credit loss that you got to account for using IFRS 9, which is a complicated formula. But effectively the increased gold price has lowered expected credit losses. And therefore, the gross, [indiscernible] to revenue is much lower. But certainly the interest generation of the book is very similar. The interest rate we charge customers are the same as a year ago. And the book has generally been higher than it was in H1 in the prior year. And the book is relatively flat from the year-end. So if you take September to March, the book is relatively flat slightly higher in terms of in date lending but it's slightly better managed, if you like, in terms of the expired book. There's less expired lending in there, which is less income generating. So what we've seen in terms of lending is very good lending. We've seen slightly better repayment rates, and that's offset that what would have been growth. And we've also had an incentive to customers or an encouragement to customers to repay some of their loans where they're looking to reborrow. So this has been something we've been trying to do for probably the last 12 months, which is to where a customer needs more time to pay, helping them help themselves by paying down some of that capital to help them get their goods back quicker. This is going to help our long-term payments of our loan book and actually help that customer reborrow in the future. But it does have a short-term impact into the loan book in this period. We've launched a new website for pawnbroking. Now again, a bit like the gold buying website. A lot of this is to attract customers to the stores. So the pawnbroking website was launched in November, but we've really started to try and push that in terms of customer acquisition towards the end of the period and into H2. So these websites, including the gold buying website, have seen very, very strong traffic and contributing to good post period-end performance. Foreign currency exchange has been 1% increase in terms of gross profit, it's 2% in revenue. And we've seen moving parts here are that sales growth has been pretty good. We've seen 2.5% increase in currency sold, and that's more customers taking slightly lower amounts of currency each. So there's been a slight reduction in the amount taken abroad. And we think that's down to the purchasing power of the customer, having less disposable income. And because they've taken less, they've actually brought less back and our purchases are down because of that and less people have sold their currency back to us. So purchases down from GBP 8.8 million there down to GBP 8.2 million. Now whilst that's only a small proportion of the currency exchange, it is at a higher margin. So it does disproportionately reduce the commission level across the segment. But we do -- we have been on that curve downwards for purchases now for a couple of years. So we are hopeful that once that flattens out, that the growth that we're seeing through sales will give a bit more momentum into this segment. The other areas we've added on into this segment are the currency card, which was launched last year. There's now 25,000 cards in issue. That's increased from 17,000. And obviously, we're approaching the key summer months where we'll have the opportunity to continue to grow that currency card volume into that period. We've also launched a money transfer service in-house. So this is an FCA regulated product, which we used to use a third party to pass leads across to. We now have that facility to do those transactions in-house, and that will help us build that business going forward over the next few years. So into the cash flow, I guess just to recap in terms of the business model and the cash generation of our stores is that the business is very cash generative. When you open a store, we pay the CapEx, it's typically GBP 250,000 CapEx, GBP 250,000 working capital to put the jewelry, the FX, lending into the store. And then all the profitability comes through in real cash. So what happens then is that profitability that we've seen in H1 has been very much come through as operating cash flow. You can see GBP 5.1 million of operating cash. We've invested in inventory. That's the biggest working capital movement there, GBP 2.4 million, GBP 1.7 million of that is to support the inventory in retail, and it's around GBP 700,000 in terms of the precious metals volumes and increased pricing, which increases the cost in the cycle for that product. We've only opened 2 stores in the period. So the CapEx is relatively low compared to previous years. As Peter said, we paused store openings really as we looked at what the high street environment was, and we pretty much started again on a 6 to 8 new stores into the future from now onwards. We paid both dividends in H1. It's important to remember that when you look at our half year cash flow, so GBP 3.6 million dividend paid, which means H2 is obviously very, very cash generative. And H2 actually has the seasonally stronger currency period as well. Therefore, you'll see that the cash generation come through particularly strongly at that time. We paid the dividends in October and March, which is outside of the currency season to support that cash need into currency into the tills. We've declared an ordinary dividend, up 25% to support that increase in profitability. The philosophy of the business is up to 50% of our profit out is dividend, and we typically pay about 1/3 and 2/3 across the interim and final. We have recognized the fact that profit is higher because of the increase in gold buying and that continued post period end. And therefore, we've introduced for the first time a special dividend to recognize the fact that we want to continue that dividend philosophy. We have an eye on any potential reduction in gold price into the future that we want to be able to measure a consistently growing dividend, a progressive dividend despite that. So that's how we've approached that. The RCF, you can see in the period as well, just to mention there, GBP 5.5 million reduction in RCF, which we've been able to reduce given the strong cash generation in the half year. On to the balance sheet. We've had a very strong balance sheet. We -- obviously, that reinvestment of half of the profits over the years keeps growing the balance sheet, GBP 54.7 million. Despite that continual growth in the balance sheet, we do have -- still have very strong return on equity. It's around 19% for the last 12 months. When you look at the asset classes in the balance sheet, it's important to remember, we book all of our inventory at cost. The precious metals inventory and the retail inventory, especially the pre-owned jewelry is again a substantial value below the gold price. Trade and receivables is the Pawnbroking debtors. And again, the increase in gold price means that security held behind that is extremely strong. The cash balance of GBP 10.3 million in the balance sheet does include the currency. That's around GBP 4 million. There is a very cash-intensive cycle to run the business. You do need to hold a lot of cash in the stores in either currency or sterling to buy gold each day, to sell currency each day. And therefore, that's why we do borrow at the same time as having that level of cash in the business.

Okay. So a quick summary. We think we've got a robust business model, diversified income streams that have, if you like, enabled the growth that you can see in the 2 graphs on the right-hand side. We keep talking about a staircase and both have a very strong staircase, again, excluding COVID. Profitability for the half year, 54% up, forecasting over GBP 15 million for the year, strong balance sheet, increasing dividend. People are kind enough to say they have a strong management team. I know I've got a very strong management team supporting both Martin and I, and we have a track record of delivering growth. The Board does remain confident that we can continue to grow Ramsdens well into the future. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is all we've got to say at the moment. We won't go through the appendices, and we're happy to take questions.

[Operator Instructions] I'd like to remind you the recording of the presentation along with a copy of the slides and the published Q&A can be accessed via your dashboard. Peter, Martin, as you can see, we've had a number of questions submitted both prior to the presentation and during the presentation. If I may just ask you to click on that Q&A tab and where appropriate to do so, read out the question, give a response and I'll pick up from you at the end.

Thank you. Right. Question one. Firstly, thank you for making ourselves accessible to investors to engage at IMC today, you're welcome. If you've not already done so, could you help us understand how productive the various new websites are in developing new or refreshed income streams, new customer interest? I appreciate, of course, you don't want to give the competition too much detail. Just a couple of numbers I would probably happy to share. If you take our Pawnbroking website and we take, if I say the visitors to that site, that has doubled in the last 3 months. And if I take our gold buying website, which has come off the Ramsdens for cash environment we talked about, and it's got SEO and it's got a little bit of pay-per-click in May, where we learned some lessons. The volume of people visiting that site has tripled. And then most of the people on that website are going to the branch locator page. And therefore, we lose when they leave the site there because we haven't got their details, we are actually losing the true conversion, but we believe our websites are helping both Pawnbroking and gold buying.

So the question is FirstCash acquiring H&T, how do we think that will affect Ramsdens?

How will FirstCash's acquisition of H&T impact Ramsdens? What is the risk of overexpansion and lower profits for the industry? How will First Cash's acquisition of H&T impact Ramsdens? Well, the first impact is it's done wonders for the share price with FirstCash paying 12x PE for the H&T business. You can see why they've done that because they are at a multiple of over 20, I believe, in the States. What is the risk of overexpansion and lower profits for the industry? I'm not really seeing that. I think the industry now is about 880 pawn broking stores in the U.K. I don't see overexpansion. I think that stores will continue to incrementally grow throughout the industry from ourselves, from H&T, from Cash Converters and probably a couple of independents. So I think it's positive news overall. Interim results announcement, the reason for the total loan book falling by 1% is due to a refocused initiative in FY '25 to encourage customers to repay part of their loan capital if they needed more time to pay off their loan. A, could you please provide details on how this scheme works? B, if a loan is past due and the customer repays part of the loan capital, will this loan be reclassified from past due to in date? And if yes, what is the percentage? Right. Okay. So if a customer wants more time to repay. So their loan has expired typically. They don't want to lose their goods. And they historically, and I'm going years back here, would just pay the interest and renew into a new loan. Now we have for years encouraged the customer to pay some of that capital off when they renew. However, in the last 9 months-ish, we have changed this IT system, the prompt that the cashier gets to ask the customer. And that change in process and the question that we have asked the customer has taken the 40% of customers who paid something off their capital up to close to 90%. And that 90% of the people is probably -- that increase has probably lowered our loan book by about 2.5% during the last 6 months. But it is a new loan agreement. So it swaps into a new loan agreement. And yes, it obviously is not then past due. Is it the long-term wish of the Board at Ramsdens to concentrate on store openings in the South of England with that part of the country being underrepresented in terms of the number of Ramsdens stores, especially compared to your main competitor, H&T? South of England is an opportunity for us. The Northwest is an opportunity. The Midlands is an opportunity for us. So it is just one of the areas that we are looking to grow. And you'll see where we plant flags over the next 1 to 2 years of that store growth. Am I correct in believing that after the substantial increase in the share price of Ramsdens Holdings in recent months that the Board would not consider buying back shares for cancellation at these levels and would prefer to use the money towards opening new stores possibly in the south of the country? Well, we've always said that it's about crudely half out in dividend, half in to invest in the future growth of Ramsdens. We think that gets a good balance of rewarding shareholders, and it gives us a good, if you like, chunk of income too and cash to grow the business. Until we run out of areas to grow the business, I don't think that we would be looking to buy shares back. Why the lull this year in store openings? You consistently opened about 2 a year as a comfortable limit? Covered that one-off, change of government, didn't know what would happen to the high street. We're going to be back to 6 to 8 stores moving forward. Right. Andrew has asked, cyber attacks are very much in the news. Can you provide some color in respect of Ramsdens preparedness? Oh, trust me, my IT director gets this -- asked this quite a lot. We think we're prepared. We have a system, dual factor authentication, multifactor authentication, different layers of security. We think we have a good defense, but I don't want anybody to test that. But we know from that our data is absolutely encrypted at rest. So we sleep easy with that one. Why is there no interest income despite having net cash and short-term deposits? That's an interesting question.

It's a tiny amount of interest receivable. We don't show it separately. We don't -- our cash moves through the accounts very quickly. We hold a lot of physical cash as well. So we don't store our cash away in savings accounts.

Okay. Do you have any concerns regarding stronger competition post the H&T takeover? No. Did you consider doing a share buyback rather than paying a special dividend? We've considered share buybacks in the past, and we thought share -- a special dividend was the right thing to do. If the gold price stays at the current level for the rest of the year, should we assume that current forecast might need to be revised upwards? Well, I thought we'd put a bullish upgrade in from 13.1% to -- well, over 13% to over 15%. Who knows? We're trying to push that profit up as much as I can every single day. So I think that's a watch and see. Obviously, if we're very successful, the profits will go up. Are you the fifth largest jeweler in the U.K.? Not to my knowledge. I don't know how that is calculated. Someone did try and tell me I was in the top 10, but I quickly went through a couple of jewelers and said, maybe not. So I don't know really where we actually sit. I know that we are consciously improving our jewelry retailing. Right. New in-house international money transfer service soft launched in February 2025. Given that income from the Western Union transfer service has been in slow decline for the last 3 years, what opportunity do you see in this in-house money transfer service? On a side note, thank you for the great performance. So if any of you have got houses abroad, you should be using Ramsdens currency to make the transfer into, for example, your Spanish bank account. Western Union is where you come into our store, you pay cash or card over the counter and the cash is remitted digitally and the customer collects cash in another Western Union outlet somewhere in the world. So Western Union is very cash to cash with a little bit of bank transfers, where our international money transfers is very much bank to bank and it's aimed at U.K. residents who may be import, export or have houses abroad. A significant reason for the excellent interim results was the high price of gold. Nobody can tell for sure the future, not least in relation to the price of gold. But taking into account your experience regarding financial matters, would you expect in 1 year's time, the price of gold to be higher or lower than its current record levels? You know what I've been wrong on this one so many times, I wouldn't want to guess. All I would say is we budget and forecast with a fall in mind. How do you think the buyout of H&T will affect your trading? I don't think it will have any impact. Any plans for further franchising? No. Did you say loan book value was fairly even between H1 and H2? I'd expect H2 to be much higher given it includes the Christmas period where you think more people need short-term funds. Our H1 includes Christmas. It shifted a little bit. I mean there isn't much seasonality into Pawnbroking at all in our business. And it used to be that the loans increased January, February when the bills landed after Christmas, but we have seen December lending tick up. There isn't -- I say there isn't really a seasonality in our Pawnbroking business. Are the outstanding loan days going down, i.e., customers paying the loans down back quicker sooner? All right. That's a question that's very -- probably driven out of H&T and some of the data that they share. Personally, I think it's not the best measure. It's to do with how many people actually repay and when they repay. So the statistics that we look at are how many people pay us back in month 1. That has slightly increased. It's about 23%, 24% borrow for less than a month. And we look at the number of customers who repay overall, and that's inched up from about 86% to 88%. So we don't do that calculation. Is FX a declining trade now everyone uses credit cards? As explained, John, our sales of foreign currency have been increasing. The currency exchange has increased. The number of transactions have increased. The ATV is slightly down. So more people are getting more cash from Ramsdens. Julian, your Pawnbroking rates look considerably above H&Ts. Is this correct? Any reason for it? Our Pawnbroking interest rates are considerably less than H&Ts, and I don't know what data you are looking at, Julian. And I think the 2 that are left on screen, we've answered.

Indeed. You have indeed, and you've actually covered off every single question you've had come through. So thank you very much indeed for that. And of course, any further questions do come through, the team will have the ability to review those. And we publish responses where appropriate to do so on the Investor Meet Company platform. Before redirecting investors to provide you with their feedback, which is particularly important to you and the team, Peter, if I may just ask you for a few closing comments, please.

Yes. Look, I feel as though we've actually rattled through those questions. I don't know whether that's a testament to the presentation and if you like, our open, transparent way of sharing the information as best we can. And therefore, there was fewer questions this time. But thank you for showing an interest in Ramsdens. We think we have a very, very good business. We have opportunities to grow. And hopefully, we will continue to do that, and we'll continue to reward shareholders with dividends and hopefully value growth as well. Have a good evening all.

Fantastic. Thank you both for updating investors today. Can I please ask investors not to close this session, which will be automatically redirected to provide your feedback in order the team can better understand your views and expectations. This will only take a few moments to complete, and I'm sure it will be greatly valued by the company. On behalf of the management team of Ramsdens Holdings plc, we'd like to thank you for attending today's presentation. That concludes today's session, and good evening to you all.