RATIONAL Aktiengesellschaft (RAA) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

So hello, everybody. Can you hear me?

We can hear you, Steve.

You can hear me. Perfect. So hello there. Maybe it's possible that we use the cameras because we are just a few. As expected, to be honest, not that many participants today. And so it's a rather familiar environment. Maybe a few others will come. But I think it's not -- I think the figures were quite clear. The -- yes, I would say most of the messages were quite clear. So I think that's why not that many people are joining today. So I would say, yes, welcome, and I would suggest just to start. And if people join then and maybe there is a question then coming again, then we might discuss it. But I think as you are on time, it is just fair that we start now. And I would suggest to just do Q&A, if it's okay for you because...

Can I kick off, please, Stefan?

Nice to see you. Are you the first lady? That's nice. So Rory, we've just decided to do Q&A.

Sure. So I've got a question, which is when you had the Capital Markets Day late last year, I think it was -- Peter talked about the sort of price rises that might be necessary in the face of U.S. import tariffs. I forget what the expectation was then in terms of tariffs, but I do remember him talking about maybe 2% to 3% price rises. 10% sounds quite high given your gross margin is not far off 60%. Can you just explain the kind of arithmetic behind that? And -- or is it sort of maybe the competition of raising prices as well and, therefore, there's a bit more kind of power to your elbow on pricing?

Yes. Thank you. Yes, so all over, just to start with, there is not yet a decision what we will do a final decision. There is scenarios of what will come. So we will really need to wait until there is more clarity what of these tariffs that are in place will stay and maybe what will come in addition when we have a look on July then. All over, it's a pure math, as you said, Rory, the arithmetics behind is quite clear. So we have an import value in the U.S. of around EUR 200 million. And this is what we had in the call, that's then causing around EUR 20 million extra costs. And looking at the sales in the U.S., this would mean price increases of around 6% to 7%. Earlier in end of November, we talked rather about 5% to 6%. I think this was an earlier calculation. But I think whether it's 5%, 6% or 7%, it is for the market not making the big difference. But this is pure math in order to cover the cost. Whether we will do this, whether there will be different tariffs, which needs different actions or whether we say, "Hey, part of this, we would take on our accounts," I think this is part of the decision that's made when there is more clarity.

And perhaps as a follow-up, what would be the other measure that you could take in order to perhaps not put this 7% price increase, but perhaps only, I don't know, 4%, 5% and then what are the alternatives? And the second follow-up is this is a pure math calculation, but there is also a big change in ForEx and in the dollar level since the beginning of the year. Taking account of this, does the 7% become 10%? Because of -- I don't know, I did not do the math, but because of this dollar-euro parity, can you also update on this front and how you can manage this?

Yes. So I would say other -- thank you for the question. Other measures, of course, we are looking now in all, let's say, the cost positions in the logistic chains. I think we had the one example that, for example, for Canada, we will now change to direct delivery to Canada and not via U.S. And some -- let's say, some efficiency measures in order to, let's say, compensate maybe for the higher cost is something we are now looking even closer at. The FX is indeed a topic that is very volatile. So the -- there is outlook for the FX development that's even worse than we have it right now, that it might go up. I think one extreme scenario for coming from one bank was that it goes up to 130. I think now we are at 112, 113, something like that. This is speculation, of course. I think nobody can really forecast where it will end up. And of course, this will need to be considered when we do then a pricing calculation. Whether this is doable in the end, so that you can say, "Hey, this would cost even higher price increases," and whether we would be able to really justify this in the market, that's another question. But this is something we need to look at. And what we learned indeed that we had it in the call as well that there was one study from one broker. They analyzed that first price increases were started in the U.S. from competition, even when the tariffs were not in place yet. And so from that point of view, we see that there is maybe everybody waiting for maybe the first mover who will react first and in what direction will we go. And this is something we will look at as well what will happen. But yes, FX is another important topic we need to consider there.

But just in terms of your guidance, to what extent should we update it from ForEx? Or I don't know...

To be honest, we -- you have more information maybe in your institutes, in your systems than we have. But all over...

No. But because it will reiterate the guidance, but the ForEx has changed a lot. So my question was when you say...

Yes. I would say...

Mid-single digit this year. Is it -- should we consider it as organic as published? Just to understand because this was reiterated and qualified a little bit at the call, so -- on the margin also. So just -- because the ForEx has already changed, are you confident to reach this level at the current ForEx, and nobody knows what it will become tomorrow? But if we plug the current ForEx, are you still maintaining that or with the ForEx of the end of last year or whatever?

No, no. We will maintain it. I would say maybe, there is presumably a negative effect coming from FX on the sales level as well as on the margin. But from what we see right now, we would not assume that it will bring us to an impact that might, let's say, jeopardize this mid-single-digit growth outlook or, on the other hand, the 25% to 26% EBIT margin outlook. So from that point of view, I would say we can confirm that, that we stay in these ranges that we guided.

And perhaps, one last on the margin guidance. For me, it was around 26%. So perhaps, I misunderstood.

Yes, yes. Okay. You're correct. It's the 26% that we guided for last -- for -- that we guided for this year. But Jorg said it in one of the last calls, this means plus/minus 1 percentage point in this range. And from that point of view, we would say that 25% to 27% would then be the range. And in the long term, we are talking about 25% to 26%. So hello, everybody. So for the guide that we just discussed the U.S. tariff impact. I would say we more or less confirmed what we had in the last call that we will -- with the impact of the tariffs, plus the FX movement that might happen after introducing the tariff, we will confirm the guided ranges for the sales growth and for the margins, and that we are still waiting for more, let's say, details from the U.S. government about the tariffs until we then react with our measures.

Stefan, can you remind us why you expect a slightly lower gross profit margin this year?

Yes. So on the one hand, we see stabilizing cost positions in the COGS. And on the other hand, we reduced our prices on cleaners -- on a big part of the cleaner products. And that's why we all over would say that there might be a slightly lower margin. Of course, with all these fluctuations that might happen, it could be a little bit more or a little bit less. But the expectation is to be slightly below. But we talk about, let's say, basis points, maybe 10, 20, 30 basis points and not about percentage points. So really slightly below.

And what is the reason for the price decline in the cleaner products?

Yes. The one thing -- on the -- there's maybe two major reasons. The one is that we overproportionately increased prices for cleaner products in the supply chain crisis when chemical prices rocketed, indeed. And as it's usual in the chemical industry, I learned just in the last weeks, if input prices go down, chemical product prices go down. And we are now coming back here with the chemical product prices as well. So our cleaners comes down, and we are especially promoting here our Green tab, which is new, which is more environmental friendly, and our cartridges for the AutoDose system to push this. And the other thing is, of course, competition because we rocket -- we reacted to the rocketed input costs with higher prices. And there is, of course, pressure. There is specialized cleaner product providers that are then way lower with their prices and that are here trying to gain market share, and this is also a reaction to that. So we need to react on the one hand on lower input cost, but also to the competition.

And can you give us an indication about the revenue contribution of those cleaner products?

They have around -- so we have a so-called non-unit share of around 30%, a little bit more now, which is cleaners, accessories and spare parts. And each of these 3 big has around 10% share of total sales. So 10% also for the cleaners.

And what is the magnitude of the price decline?

Sorry?

What is the magnitude of the decline of price or the price reduction you are offering?

Yes. We have around 20% for the Green tabs and I think around 5% for the cartridges.

And perhaps, coming back to the U.S., can you remind us over there how is organized your competition? And where are they producing their products?

Yes. So most of the combi-steamer production is indeed outside the U.S. So there is one major competitor with Alto-Shaam that is producing in the U.S. The others are mainly international groups with one or more combi-steamer brands that are mainly coming from other countries. And of course, the international companies like the adi Group or Unox or so and so. Most of the competition is producing outside the U.S. And if you are referring maybe to the tariff impacts then, but the good message for us is that also the American competitors, of course, are affected because the major part of the steel, of course, is purchased outside the U.S. The electronics are purchased outside the U.S. And so they are paying the tariffs on these components. And we are even paying less. So they are even paying higher tariffs than we are paying for the complete product. And in terms of the -- yes, the organization, I said, it's mostly international groups. When we look on how they approach the market, it's a different approach. We are rather strong. We saw in the past, let's say, a few quarters with smaller customers with, let's say, mom-and-pop shops and restaurants and in the public segment, the competition with their approach, they are mainly focusing on big customers, on key accounts, which is maybe right now even a big advantage for us that we are here so, let's say, diversified because the key account business is really still very hesitant in these days. Here, we don't see really big projects right now.

And perhaps to stay on the U.S., so...

Sorry, can I just some follow-up? Just to understand, the price rise that you're going to put through in the U.S., and thank you for your answer, will come into effect on July 1, did you say?

We didn't announce a price increase in the U.S.

No. You're going to raise prices when?

That's not decided yet, that's not decided yet. This is something we want to wait -- okay, maybe this is a misunderstanding. In July, there will be the next -- hopefully, the next part of the information on the tariff policy. This is the 90-day break or pause they gave us. And we will see what will come then and what might be the necessary reaction on that.

You're paying 10% tariffs already from now, right?

Yes, yes.

So you just take that on the chin.

Yes, yes. Right.

Yes. Do you have inventory already in the U.S. that got sort of through before the tariff was introduced?

Yes, yes. But we don't have extra inventory there. We have a rolling system to refill the warehouses in the overseas markets. And there is always a certain amount of units available. So of course, there is a certain amount there, but not -- especially for this case in order to be earlier and to avoid more import tariffs because, on the other hand, this would cost. So it would -- you need to change your system, your production system, your refilling system. Then maybe you have the wrong units there that you cannot sell. You need the logistics space. So from that point of view, we decided not to significantly increase this in order to maybe avoid a certain amount of tariffs. On the other hand, also with the dealers or with customers, we do not see a pattern. That is maybe the best reaction that, now, let's fill the warehouses or rebuy units that you might need just later. This is also not happening.

Yes. So you don't expect a sort of bump in sales ahead of the price rise that customers might be anticipating. And also have you seen any -- how your competitors have reacted so far on pricing? Any signals from the competition?

Yes, yes. Very difficult to say. So -- and we -- as I said in this one stockbroker study, there was some information that there were a few price increases, but we don't have details from competition. The thing is that, in many cases, you don't -- you just learn about this later on because when they change list prices, this could be a sign. But on the other hand, if they don't change their discount policy, then the end customer price is, of course, something we don't learn of quite early on. So from that point of view, it's difficult to say, but there is signs that there were slight price increases from competition.

And just -- sorry, to check I understand it well. In Q2, you will sell in the U.S. with a 10% tariff and with no price increase. So you should be impacted, your margin will suffer. Or is there an operating leverage or something that will compensate for it?

Yes. Presumably, we will be -- yes, we will suffer from this -- from these tariffs then. But let's say, the first step, we take this on our accounts. We don't want to react in -- let's say, too early with some measures that we then might take or need to take back later on. This is something we will analyze this in detail, and we will see what of these actions or of these measures can or need to stay or we -- or whatever we need to do. So this is something that we want to take the time, and we accept that there might be a drag on the margin here.

One more general question on the U.S. or North America. What is the reason why you generate above-average group margins in North America?

Yes. When you look into the history, just a few years back, we had lower margins there. And I would say one of the major reason is, on the one hand, of course, the overproportionate price increases we had in the past years. This is indeed a factor. But on the other hand, we see it in Germany, for example, we have quite low price level compared to other markets, but we have quite high margins. This means you have a very strong organization that got -- I just forgot the English word now, that is settled, that is, yes, stable with set structures, which is efficient. So we have efficient organizations, and you see in this growth organizations in -- that are growing over proportionally do a lot of pre-investment. And I think in the U.S., in the meantime, we reached a level where we have a settled organization. We have set structures. We are now in a situation to, let's say, step-by-step improve also efficiency. And from that point of view, the mix of now higher prices plus a more efficient organization is contributing to the improving margin there.

You've mentioned that operating costs will be up slightly more than revenues. Is that a kind of good sign, not for the margin? But in terms of hiring salespeople, going back to your answer just now on the U.S., is it getting easier to find salespeople? Is it less of a bottleneck? Or is it still tough?

It is still tough. I would not say that it is easier to find the people. But let's say, we are more active now again in hiring new people. When you remember back the past years, you had the COVID crisis. There were no argument why to hire new salespeople because there were no job for them to do. Then we had the supply chain crisis. Units were sold automatically because customers just wanted to have a unit at all without any big actions needed. And now I would say, this is the time where we are back to a quite normal mode in the business development, where we say in order to fuel the growth story, we need the people on the street. We need the direct contact with the customers in order to trigger also the demand and the sales, and that's why we are now back on the growth mode in terms of sales capacities. But it's not easier, I would say, to find, but still a lot of effort. But we are now focusing more on that again. And that's a good sign then when the costs go up because this means we are closer to the customer.

Given the current environment on East [Foreign Language], would it be the right point in time to have a local factory in the U.S.?

Yes, yes.

And if it's the case, how long would it take you to have -- to settle this factory?

Yes. So you know that we -- every few years, there is, let's say, a little project where we open up again the files and look into the assessment of the production site in the U.S., whether it makes sense or not. This is -- since the IPO, we just learned, I think, maybe last year or 2 years ago that even in the IPO prospect, the U.S. production was a major topic. And until now, the result was always no because of different facts. On the one hand, it's much more expensive compared to produce it here and shipped. This might change now, maybe. So -- but also qualitative factors, do you find the right people over there, do you have a supplier network that is qualified, et cetera. This is very important in order to have our high-quality approach, maybe the one unit, one person approach, all these things that make it make RATIONAL different are also playing here a role. But of course, you're correct with the tariffs. And whatever the outcome will be, we will then -- when we have more clarity, analyze that new. And maybe the answer then it will be positive different to the former analysis, but we will need to wait for that. But of course, it's now maybe the time to look at when we have more clarity, correct.

And if it was the case, how long would it take?

Sorry, sorry. Yes. We are estimating about 2 to 3 years that it would need to set that up. So it depends again on how we do it. Do we just have a greenfield approach and that we build up everything from scratch? Or do we just rent an existing factory, like we do it in China and then just change the interior, et cetera? So this is -- but 2 to 3 years would be a good estimate.

On the cost, do you have a rough estimate already or not at all?

Also depending on how we do it. So for example, when you look at China, right now, we are estimating less than EUR 10 million CapEx for this because we have a rented facility. If we build a new facility ourselves and buy the land, maybe it's EUR 30 million or so, EUR 40 million like we saw in Wittenheim. So I would say, in between there, everything is possible.

But you still -- you've got the risk of having to import steel into the U.S. if you -- yes, there's lots of moving parts, right?

Correct, correct. This might then be a negative one again. Yes. So I would not say that it's a no-brainer now because I think it's very, very -- yes, a complex situation because if you say, "Okay, there are tariffs now," but on the other hand, then we would need to import parts, and there are also tariffs. So from that point of view, it's more complex than maybe what we could imagine at a first glance.

It sounds as if there's -- I sense a bit more traction with the iHexagon, with the PC tank example, and we had the Ipswich football club the previous quarter. But could you just kind of comment on -- I know we shouldn't get overexcited about iHexagon too early because you've kind of got to educate the market and it takes a long time, but just on the progress that you're making.

Yes, that's -- maybe I just can repeat what we said on the call there. We are indeed happy that we see, let's say, more and more examples with customers that are indeed very, very happy. When you talk to them, we had this example with Ipswich town football stadium. We had it in [ Sarstedt ]. We had in Germany, I think Sachsenring, we have ice hockey stadiums. I think these stadiums seem to be really very, very -- a very good fit, let's say it that way, because the speed there is, of course, very important. But also a petrol station chain seems to be -- if you want to offer there really high-quality food, then it seems to be also a very good match because you need to be fast, because nobody stays very long at a petrol station, and maybe it's then just to take off the food as well. So we have projects running with bigger customers. But of course, here, what we said before, it might take -- we have one feedback from a hotel chain. It might take up to 7 years until they say we start looking at the product and then we install because it takes such a long time to qualify it. Then we have a project and you do a testing. Then if you do a rollout, it needs to fit into a rollout plan that you have in the different countries. And this is also the experience we made looking back with KFC in the late '90s, early 2000 years. This is also the case that it lasted until up to 7 years until they then really first did the first order. So we are -- let's say, we are quite patient here. Of course, there is -- among the investors, there is people that are not so patient. Internally, there are people that are maybe also not so patient. But all over, we see that it is a, what Dr. Stadelmann called it, we start a new era. And we might not -- or we should not discuss the success of a new era or assess it on the first 12 months. So from that point of view, we look quite optimistically on the project, on the product, on the feedbacks we get. But I would say the figures that we might not -- or we should not talk about the impact that has on the figures right now.

It may be the case that in 7 years' time, you have a second-generation product. I remember that combi-steamer, it used to be sort of every 7 years. I think it changed eventually, became a bit more of an evolution than a kind of revolution. But your R&D is going up. Should we think about the iHexagon in those terms that there will be different iterations during its life cycle, so to speak?

Definitely. I would say we are always working on improvements. And I think it also is the case for the iHexagon that we look on saving energy, getting faster, getting a better match in terms of the result, the cooking result, matching with the expectation of the guest. This is really the most important thing that we have. And here, there is always improvement potential for every product type.

Perhaps coming back on what you explained on the call on the seasonality that this year, you should be back to normal seasonality. It was Q1 should be, I don't know, 23% of the full year sales. But in the end, when we look to the comparison basis of last year, the Q2, Q3 were tougher comparison, tougher comps. So I was wondering, because your statement imply an acceleration of organic growth. So I don't know how -- what should we have in mind on how to reconcile this, perhaps?

Yes. On the one hand, we see that the business model is, let's say, unchanged. So the business model, as we do it with -- in terms of incentives for our salespeople, incentives for our dealers. Also the higher share of big customers that have -- that are budget driven, in many cases, leads to the result that at the year-end, there is more sales volume, which is then, in many cases, taken into some warehouses or, yes, on stock and then sold off in January, February, so that these month -- or the Q1 then is lower. That's unchanged. We saw now in the last years that this pattern was indeed, yes, disturbed. And we saw it flatter. We saw more volatility because there were so many external effects. That's why we think whether we end up with what we saw historically as an average or as a median, difficult to say. But we are expecting that we go back towards the normal seasonality more and more. And the other fact that fuels this is that we are now hiring more and more salespeople, and they start to get effective. And then at the year-end, there should be more people on the street, also fueling this during the year already. But basically, I would say the major reason is that we step by step expect to go back to normality in terms of the seasonality that we saw in the past, because the business model is as it was maybe 5, 6, 7 years ago when we saw other seasonality. And it means to -- of course, as you said, it means higher growth rates in Q3 and Q4 compared to what we saw in Q1 and Q2.

Okay. So the catch-up of the organic growth should be seen much more in H2?

Yes.

It's in H1 than Q2.

Yes.

Stefan, just a quick one for me as well. In terms of the inventory discussion in the U.S., just to make sure I understood. So I guess, usually, you hold, I guess, call it, 10% or so of rolling sales. So you have 1 month of inventory. Is that sort of the right way to think about it if you split out finished goods versus not finished goods? And is that the same in the U.S.? Or is it -- does it differ by geography?

Yes. We have stock levels in -- or we have warehouses in the overseas markets. In the European markets, not. There we do direct delivery either to the dealer or to the end customer as it is preferred. In the overseas markets, we do -- we have the intermediate step with the warehouse. Yes, that's correct. And to be honest, whether it's then what the reach is, it's a few months. It depends on the country. We have a few months in reach of the warehouse, of the stock in every country, and this is a rolling model. So if a certain level is reached, so that we are below x percent or so, then there is a new container, for example, filled and sent to the U.S. or to India or to whatever market, depending on their model and how they have it in place.

Got you. So I mean, I guess, there's a tendency then outside of Europe, it's more than 1 month. That's a bit less.

Yes, it's more than 1 month usually. But I can't tell you the exact reach that we have right now. Yes, we can say if we have, let's say, 15,000 units or so on stock and we sell, I don't know, 90,000, then this would mean on average 2-month reach. But there is a share of, let's say, 40% overseas, then it's maybe rather 4 to 5 months. And of course, it's, let's say, the most usual of units. You don't ship or put on stock any units that are not usual. So if you have special units, then, of course, there is a special order for that.

Okay. Understood. And then maybe a follow-up to that is then -- I mean, you phrased it before, you take the tariff hit initially on the chin, as you said. I think maybe it was a question. But if anything, that would then flow into Q3, right, not Q2? Or how should we think about the phasing there throughout the year?

No, no. Q2 is already affected by the 10% that are already in place. And what happens in July, which is then maybe adding or maybe it's going away, whatever the negotiations will result in and is then from Q3 on here.

The products you're selling in Q2 then would be based on -- would not be affected by the tariffs, right, because...

You mean, yes, we have -- you mean with the reach of the stock a few months, yes, it depends. If there is units imported, then, because it's special units or so, then there is an impact. If not, then we just sell it from stock, then not -- yes, correct.

And can I just ask about China because if you've kind of put the key account distortions to one side, it sounds like the street market was maybe quite healthy in China, which sounded like a different tone to before when I think you might have said in previous quarters, the street market in China was more difficult. Is that a misunderstanding on my part? Has there been a slight improvement in the street market in China? And does that kind of all go positively for your, even though it's a few quarters away for your launch in the first quarter of next year?

Yes, indeed. So I think what we see in China is that we have a very, very high key account share, and most of that key account share is indeed with Yum China. And when we now look back to Q1 or in the last quarters, we had always this comparison of this huge order that we had end of '23, early '24. So from that point of view, this is, of course, a little bit, let's say, diluting the complete view on the Chinese market. But the -- and we had a not so strong development in the street market in the last years, to be honest. And now this is stabilizing and developing quite good from a lower level, to be honest, right now, but this is developing quite good. But we are not having any bigger key account orders again, especially as, for example, KFC, they are, of course, already had a big bucket in the last year. And so from that point of view, we are now looking a little bit more optimistic on the key -- sorry, on the street business and are hoping that, of course, the key account business will stabilize again. But this is -- let's say, it's always the same. Sometimes, that part of the business is stronger. And sometimes, the other part of this business is stronger. That's on the -- all over, that's a good thing because it compensates for each other.

One perhaps overall, if we -- apart from China and U.S. what is -- how do you view -- how -- what is the view that you have of your client behavior's willingness to invest? And perhaps, a quick comment on Germany now that the election is behind. Any -- I don't know, any more optimism much more than the sales figures that you already published in Q1? It's much more the -- in terms of get feeling on what is the feedback of your salespeople.

Yes, yes. All over, I would say Germany is a tough market right now. So there is one thing that might help. If the VAT is reduced again from 19% to 7% for the restaurant business, this might help a little bit. On the other hand, we have a minimum wage that might increase. This is then, yes, the other way around a little bit. So -- but all over, I think there is a little bit -- a little optimism there. We learned also from our German sales colleagues that there is, yes, different business models they are starting in order to compensate for the problems they have in terms of finding the right people, so that they do so-called mise en place business. That means you do a lot of preproduction at normal working times. And then for the finishing, when there is a big wedding party, for example, then you need less people. And so you have less work at peak times and more work at normal working times, so that it is getting more attractive again for people. So for this, they need a lot of technology. They need heating and cooling technology. So there is huge investments, but this is a, let's say, more or less, future-proof business then, as they say. And this -- there is ideas to counteract the problems we have in the markets. Also in Germany, I think the gastronomy customers, they are, yes, creative to find ways to continue with that business. And in other markets, I would say every market has its maybe special problems. We learned when we analyzed last year for the management report in U.K., there is -- there was an outlook that 30%, 35% of all the restaurants will need to close. And -- but of course, there's always a lot of closures when you look in restaurants, and there are few openings. So from that point of view, how significant or how different to normal times the developments are, sometimes, we don't know because it sometimes looks quite bad. But sometimes, some people say that it was always like that. I'd say Europe is a mixed thing. We see good development in the Eastern European markets. There is a lot of optimism we see there. In the Southern European market, it's good. U.K., indeed a surprise was quite positive. So from that point of view, there is a mixed situation. We cannot say there is the one development. And all over, we think that the out-of-home market, and this is, I think, maybe boring for you because we tell this maybe for 30 years, the out-of-home market is indeed a growing industry. People cook less at home. They rely more and more on somebody else cooking for them, whether it's then delivery or whether it's takeaway or you go to the restaurant, you dine in. That's -- it doesn't make a difference. And -- but of course, there's the changes then if you have some frictions because nobody knows how it goes on, and everybody is waiting a little bit. Then this could, of course, lead to lower demand. But in the long term, we would say this should compensate again. And as long as the -- let's say, this going concern aspect is still there for the customers, we are very optimistic that, okay, there is one region that is maybe doing not that well, but then there's another region that is doing better. And from that point of view, we think all over the -- everything is intact, the business model is intact, the long-term view is intact that we have, and we feel quite -- we are prepared quite well for the future. Was this a good closing statement for everybody? Okay, then. Then I say thank you very much for joining. And hope we see next, I would say, early August, maybe, for the pre-close call or last call, as we call it, for the Q2.

Okay.

So take care. Bye-bye.

Stefan, bye.

Bye-bye.

Thank you. Bye-bye.