RBZ Jewellers Limited (RBZJEWEL) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Conference Call of the Quarterly Financial Results of RBZ Jewellers. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Nupur Jainkunia from Valorem Advisors. Thank you. And over to you, ma'am.

Thank you. Good evening, everyone, and a very warm welcome to you all. My name is Nupur Jainkunia from Valorem Advisors. We represent the Investor Relations of RBZ Jewellers Ltd. On behalf of the company and Valorem Advisors, I would like to thank you all for participating in the company's earnings conference call for the fourth quarter and for the financial year 2025. Before we begin, let me mention a short cautionary statement. Some of the statements made in today's earnings conference call may be forward looking in nature. Such forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties which could cause actual results to differ from those anticipated. Such statements are based on management's belief as well as assumptions made by and the information currently available to management. Audiences are cautioned not to place any undue reliance on these forward-looking statements in making any investment decisions. The purpose of today's earnings call is purely to educate and bring awareness about the company's fundamental business and the financial quarter under review. Let me now introduce to the management participating with us in today's earnings call and hand it over to them for opening remarks. We have with us Mr. Harit Zaveri, Joint MD and CFO of the company; Mr. Harshit Gandhi, Internal Financial Controller; and Mr. [ Bhavesh Sabhnani ], Senior Manager, Accounts and Finance of the company. Without any further delay I request Mr. Harit Zaveri to start with his opening remarks. Thank you. And over to you, sir.

Thank you, Nupur. RBZ Jewellers Limited has completed its fourth quarter. And the results we have grown our revenue top line by 59%. And so that is the continuous trend that is going on. Since all the previous 3 quarters, we have had the same results in the quarter 4 also. So from INR 86 crores to INR 137 crores we have grown in top line. And last year in the quarter because of the weighted average issues, the bottom line was subdued at INR 2.069 crores, which was indicated that in the next year of quarter 1 it would be revised and the quarter 1 of FY '25 stood at approximately INR 9 crores. So this year in the fourth quarter, the results are on the bottom line is INR 8.5 crores. The jump which is reflected in the bottom line is quite -- that jump is just because the last year fourth quarter was subdued and because of the accounting weighted average matter. Otherwise the company is functioning very much in line with their operating margins, the EBITDA levels, and the PAT levels in all the 4 quarters. And over to the people who have any questions. Yes.

[Operator Instructions] The first question comes from the line of Kunal Sharma from SP Capital.

I hope I am audible.

Yes, Kunal, you're audible.

So Harit, just wanted to understand, in FY '25 was quite eventful year, right? But still we close it in a good note. So how do you confident for FY '26, be it on the demand side, on overall, the business point of view. And additionally, if you could highlight more on the Akshaya Tritiya, and how was that festival during the April month?

So Kunal, Akshaya Tritiya was very good. We have had seen a 30% plus growth on the sales side for that day. But that should not conclude the overall month. The overall month still went flat. On the quarter -- the escalation of prices going to the tune of INR 1 lakh for 10 grams has certainly made the walk-ins relatively slow. The demand has postponed. Why I am saying the demand has postponed is occasion buyers will buy jewelry if not at one then the other point of time. And the daily wear demand gets denied also. But we are mainly an occasion wear player. 70% to 80% of our jewelry which are sold is occasion wear as far as group, and in retail we sell about 60% to 65% of occasion wear. So the demand is postponed, but not denied. As we are seeing in the month of April, on the day of Akshaya Tritiya, the demand was fantastic. The day went good, but April was still stable. And quarter -- also the result of quarter 4 what I had -- we have also got the demand of Akshaya Tritiya, which was previously like the corporates tend to order it in advance. So that is why the quarter 4 was better than the guided figures. So in quarter 1 -- for the full fiscal year, I am still hopeful that we will achieve a top line of around INR 700 crores. And the bottom line would be around INR 44 crores to 45 crores. And see, any denial in demand is right now not seen. We are hopeful that we should still continue to grow by around 30% or so. And yes, quite a eventful year, as you rightly mentioned. Quarter first April has been -- the prices are ups and downs. But we are habitual with the volatility and fundamentals are strong for us to have our growth plans in place. We are, we are sure to grow by whatever the numbers are set.

So if I remember correct, in the last -- on the previous call that we have guided INR 800 crores for FY '26. Now you are seeing that INR 700 crores. So do you see any slowdown in the coming years as well as in the quarter 1 we were quite depend on the Akshaya Tritiya, right? But you said there is a -- post that there is a quite muted in the demand. So if you can quantify this area.

So correct. I might have -- certainly, see, once we get near to the year, we are getting more clarity. If you remember that in the previous quarter, I already told that we will be achieving anywhere between INR 500 crores to INR 600 crores. And then I closed it up at, let's say, INR 500 crores to INR 550 crores. And in the quarter 4 I guided that, okay, it will be INR 525 crores to INR 535 crores. So as and when we get near to the time, we get more clearer about the areas. So again, what my understanding is, we should be able to get a upside revenue of around 30% or somewhere in that range. Still, it's a decent growth quarter. The April month is flat, and the prices were escalated. Not that we are seeing any denial of demand, or we are seeing any sluggish thing. We are not talking about any early double-digit or growths like that. We are still talking about a 30-digit revenue growth and that is pretty good. The company has its expansion plans in place, and we are sure that INR 44 crores is the bottom line that I previously told also. In fact, if you go on to hear my all the previous earnings call, I have always guided that we will double the balance sheet, and we will double the profits as well. And it is 100% happening on that accord itself.

Noted. Yes, exactly. And if I'm not wrong, for FY '27 that we guided INR 1,000 crores of top line and INR 55 crores of OpEx. So on that particular area we are intact on that guidance, right?

Yes, Kunal. So see, as and when we get nearer to the subject, my guidance has to be more on the side of truth. Whatever I have spoken, you can -- my whole thing is that yes, INR 1,000 crores is what we are looking at for FY '27 and INR 55 crores bottom line is what we are looking for. Right now there is no deviation in that.

Noted. My second question on that on a Y-o-Y basis that we've grown substantially. But on a sequential basis, there is some dip. So if you could throw some light on that area.

Kunal, jewelry industry is a seasonal demand industry. So quarter 2 and quarter 3 remains critical for us. Last year, quarter 2 was very weak. It was because of the delayed demand or the postpone of demand that we had. And the whole effect came in quarter 3 of that year. So again, quarter 4, we had a pretty good quarter 4. And the reason being is that Akshaya Tritiya last to last year was May 10 and this year it was April 30. So whatever demand for Akshaya Tritiya is that we got in the month of April. For the corporate side of jewelers, for the independent retailers whom we cater or the retail store that we have, on the sale of good side, we still are on the -- [ April ] had its own demand. But the reason of not INR 5 crores, INR 6 crores of PAT and INR 8.5 crores of PAT still remains that Akshaya Tritiya was -- we have gotten advance demand for Akshaya Tritiya. And I think that on the sequential side, jewelry industry cannot be studied on that matter. If it will be studied on Y-o-Y, it will give more relevant figures. Sequential side, it is difficult. FMCG and all can still be understood. But jewelry as a segment itself has its own characteristics.

Okay, my third question on the balance sheet side. So when do we expect a positive net cash flow, since we can see there is money getting stuck in the working capital side, too?

Correct, Kunal. So see, if you understand the whole inventory is majorly into gold and diamond, more in gold and less in diamond. So company does not have any issues in terms of cash balances. We have got right now good liquidity on our hand. And if we are deploying the funds in inventory, that clearly shows that we are still aggressive on the path of growth. And I think negative cash flow isn't the side of worry right now. But yes, certainly, let us go on with this continuous expansion plans and let us understand. But right now if the money is deployed in inventory and the inventory is quite liquid in nature, our current assets are liquid in nature, I think there is no harm that we are seeing with this a model. Here and there we might have positive cash flow or negative cash flow. But I think overall we are sitting on gold that is itself liquid in nature. The iron and steel industry or other industries [indiscernible] commented on the inventory risk side. Plus, gold is much more liquid in nature. So there is no fear or there is no harm in this. I think growth plans are in place, Kunal.

So what is the CapEx plan that we have?

Right now, CapEx plan are, so the factory that we were supposed to plan about a 4-ton factory or a 5-tonne factory. So if you understand at that time, during the IPO, the price was INR 50,000 a gram. And we had a 2 ton capacity. So now the price is INR 1 lakh a gram. So already we have in the same CapEx, we are already achieving the same amount, like if you just convert from INR 50,000 to INR 1 lakh and from 2 ton factory. So we don't require a CapEx right now. We can easily fuel our growth for coming few years with the same CapEx that we are already having right now.

And what is the cash balance that we have? And any fundraising plan going forward? I think we were supposed to raise fund, if I'm not wrong.

Correct. We are, we are 100% on our side of raising debt. We expect our -- we expect to raise the debt to the tune of 1:1 ratio. Maybe if not in full this year, then the coming year. But surely, the debt raise plans are [ in there and debt raise ] will fuel the growth for the coming year. It will improve the ROE and ROCE.

Okay. And the last question on the retail growth side. So if you could throw some more light on retail, and how was the growth? And what's the CapEx plan over there? Still, we are in...

So retail, we had a wonderful year in retail. And we expect that as I guided during the IPO that retail capacity is approximately INR 500 crores to INR 600 crores for this current store. I think during this financial year, we will have an expansion in place for the coming store. And that will again build up an additional capacity of INR 400 crores plus. So the growth journey in retail is going to get higher and higher.

We'll move to the next question that comes from the line of Prerana Amanna from Equity Research Program.

Congratulations on a great year. So you mentioned in the opening remarks of the call, right, that the gold price has increased, as a result the demand has been postponed. So are we seeing, particularly in wholesale maybe, the companies are not placing the order that much, or we are seeing a slowdown over there because of this effect?

So see, every corporate retailer is watching the business because the kind of volatility gold has had, customers' mind are in confusion whether to buy it at today's rate or wait for the upcoming rates. So what they are confused is there are some rumors in which they tell that the gold prices will come down, and some rumors say that the gold prices will go up. So again, we do not know the consumer psyche, but we have always noticed that due to volatility of gold, customers' mind gets confused. Occasion, weddings and this kind of functions, the demand can be postponed, but cannot be denied. If the corporates are not placing an order, let's say, in quarter 1, or, let's say, in the month of April, we have not received orders, then we'll be receiving in the month of May. And if we are not receiving in the month of May, we'll be receiving in the month of June. We have to be ready with our capacity at peak to take the orders when it comes. And also in the retail segment, we are clearly understanding the consumer on the ground level itself. There is a postpone of demand, but there is -- we are still very sure that the wedding buyers are not going to say no to their jewelry. It's a cultural bounded thing, and we are sure to grow for the -- I think the quarter 2 will tell us much more -- quarter 2 and quarter 3 will tell us much more stronger about the whole position of demand. But jewelry itself is a robust industry. We are still very positive on the demand side.

So if that happens, let's say, the demand is not that great, are we going to see the job work part getting impacted? That's part of the revenue, the job work and the wholesale? Because I believe it happened in Q2 or Q3 of this year, we had that the job work was a little bit slow, right? So will that be the first portion that is going to be affected?

So job work will be -- see, job work demand we have already received in advance in quarter 4 of this year. So the guided figure was INR 5 crores to INR 6 crores. We have done INR 8.5 crores. Why we have done INR 8.5 crores? That's because the job work demand has fueled in advance, right? For the month of Akshaya Tritiya. For the April 30 was Akshaya Tritiya. Last year it was May 10. So the demand has [ flowed ] in, in the month of March this year. So in the April [Technical Difficulty]

Hello sir, are you there? Ladies and gentlemen, the management line seems to have dropped. Please stay online while we get them reconnected. Ladies and gentlemen, the management is back online. Sir, please go ahead.

Yes, so I think the demand for job work was more there in the quarter 4 of this year for the festive Akshaya Tritiya. But still quarter in the quarter 1 we see a little bit of sluggish in terms of volumes. In terms of value, we don't see any sluggishness. We are still hopeful to grow in terms of value. And I think quarter 2 will have a lot of excitement this year because last year quarter 2 was quite sluggish.

And sir, what's your view on the [ GST order ] you have got the notice? And also, I believe one of the employees was involved in a fraud, right? So what do you have to say about that?

So income tax matter, they have ordered us for INR 25 crores of income tax appeal for issuance of bonus shares when we were a private limited company. I think that order we have already [ filed for ] CIT appeal. We particularly think that it's a very baseless order. And we have filed our replies into CIT appeal. We are hopeful of hearing in a very early stage. And I think by next quarter, we should be able to give you confined results for that matter. We are very sure that this type of demand that is there, it's just not going to have any impact on the financials or anywhere else.

The next question comes from the line of Yash Modi from Ashika Group.

Harit, congratulations on a good set of numbers. And congratulations on the rating upgrade as well to BBB positive from CRISIL. So my first question was in this debt tie-up that we are looking at, what kind of interest rate benefit that we'll have. What is the current interest rate, and what will happen because of this rating upgrade?

So currently, we are having an interest of approximately -- so there are various bankers associated from 9% to 10.25% the spread is. And with this rating upgrade, we are hopeful that I think the interest rate should be in the range of around 9.5% or 9.75% at max on a consolidated basis. So yes.

And secondly, I was just reading from the CRISIL rating report itself, and they have said that our revenue -- we would be opening a new showroom, like you mentioned in early part of the call, in Surat, Gujarat, which is operationalized -- expected to operationalize in third quarter, and another in Rajkot, which is expected to operationalize in fourth quarter. So going forward, what is going to be our revenue mix? Because earlier, we used to guide for 50-50. So going forward, should we look at RBZ more from a consumer perspective, as in B2C is going to go up? Is that the correct understanding?

So Yash, we are looking forward for the setup in which the manufacturing, whatever designs we manufacture, we sell it on to our retail showroom as well. And with this, we want to improve our bottom lines, the margins to get more solidified. And also the designs that we manufacture in-house, if we sell it to retail, there is some sort of exclusivity, which will be also there. RBZ has already got a unique infrastructure when it comes to antique jewelry manufacturing, and we are -- so doing the stores like Surat and Rajkot, sure, it will be operational in the -- one will be operational in quarter 3 of this financial year and another will be -- we are wanting to look at quarter 1 of the next financial year. So both the stores will be up and coming in, I think, a year or so from now on. So yes, looking for more sales upgrowth in the B2C front. I think it will be approx -- what we are anticipating is that retail should go about INR 400 crores this year and by the next -- the same-store sales growth will be INR 400 crores in retail this year. And overall retail should be about INR 500 crores. And next year it will be around INR 600 crores to INR 650 crores, INR 700-odd crores in retail itself for the upcoming...

And I just missed the last question that the participant asked. What was the reason for the that employee fraud, what is the status of that, the employee fraud that was announced?

Mr. Om Shukla, who did the fraud, is right now behind the bars. He did not get bail. The internal controls and the logs, which was there, we have submitted to the insurance company. We have got a positive feedback. CCTV footages and everything is very much available on -- even in the public domain, the television news channels have already showcased it. And we are very hopeful to get the insurance money back. Still on a conservative side, we have put a provision of INR 25 lakhs. Even the police has recovered much of the gold, which was stolen. But yes, I think not much of impact on financials for that matter, and we are hopeful to recover in complete amount from...

And we have taken a INR 25 lakh provision in this quarter itself in the numbers?

Correct.

The next question comes from the line of [ Raj Shah ], an individual investor.

Hello. Am I audible?

Just be a little louder, Raj. Thanks

Am I audible now?

Yes, Raj.

So sir, you said negative operating cash flow is not a problem. But with the growth we are envisaging and with every step of growth, we need to borrow more or dilute more equity if there is a equity [indiscernible]. So that is not sustainable, right? We need to bring that positive OCF for the business internally, feeding for its growth. So what is the solution for this and why negative OCF is not a problem?

Raj, sorry to say, but I'm really not able to hear you clearly.

Am I audible now, sir?

Yes.

So my question is, you said that negative operating cash flow is not a problem. But with the growth we are envisaging and with every step of growth, you need to borrow more or dilute more equity, equity fundraising there. So that is not sustainable, right? We need to generate positive OCF for business internally, fueling for its growth. So what is the solution for this and why negative OCF is not a problem?

So currently, when the company's ability to is to fund its expansion plans by its internal accruals and by fueling of debt, the expansion can go on. See, negative cash flow does not imply that you don't have profits. It just implies that your money is parked into not one but another allocation of fund. So for that basis an internal -- let's say, if I'm having an X amount of inventory or a Y amount of allocate -- my fund is allocated into some, let's say, CapEx or inventory, that should not be harmful for fueling my growth, at least to this part of our industry. There could be another industry in which the growth cannot happen. But generally, we see that what is the basis of my growth. If the basis of my growth is, let's say, inventory, my working capital, then I don't think -- or let's say, the basis of my inventory is capital. So the concern should be, are we not producing sufficient profits? Are we not able to raise debt? Those are the questions. Cash flow are just -- like cash flow will be a different measure to see that kind of a thing that you're telling, [ Raj ]. So as of now, we don't see that negative cash flow will not fuel in the growth or have any constraints for the plans that we have.

Sir, but don't you think that current -- our job work cash is -- all our business cash is going into inventory of B2B and B2C verticals. And our expansion is coming from the borrowing. So expansion coming from the borrowing will be limited, right? Like it will be a short-term thing. We will not be able to grow in the long term sustainably.

So expansion can also come from an internal accrual basis. So we are not just expanding from, let's say, borrowings. Borrowings is just a handle to support it. Equity is very much a part of it. Internal accruals are a part of it. Structure, how the team is, and IT infrastructure, everything will be a part of it. But yes, to have a positive cash flow means, let's say, for an example, if I had to do a positive cash flow, and that means I'm not much invested into my inventory. Being into this industry, I think inventory would be a main part. And we can have a different business model then in place to have a positive cash flow. But as of now, we don't see any constraints in money parked into inventory because most of the money is in gold. So it's in liquid assets, it's in current assets basically. So I don't think that a negative cash flow, at least for upcoming few years, are not a concern like anywhere.

And sir, have you explored gold metal loan, which can help here?

So, gold metal loan, if you just tell me, we have already explored an instrument. And if you see that the volatility of gold metal loan itself is very high. The interest rate has doubled in gold metal loan. It tuned to almost 6%, 7% in this financial year. And again, it is coming back. So, lot of fluctuations are already there in place. We are -- the company and the size that we are in, we are much comfortable with the model that we have. And we are very much conservative on our books when it comes to like the book value of gold is always -- we maintain it lesser than the market value of gold. And with this kind of an approach, I, right now don't see any position in which that metal loan can be a great value for adding the cash flow, at least -- adding to cash flow. I mean, that can be method to just hedge it, but it's not a mechanism to have a cash flow.

Okay. Sir, on the CapEx plan, you said that on the basis of value, you are already achieving it. But sir, that is again not sustainable, right? Growth in terms of volume is more sustainable. So, are we not increasing our tonnage in terms of CapEx?

So, let's say, gold from here goes to another 20%, 25% hike, right? It has done so previously or let's say, whatever the nature of gold, let's say, gold remains volatile. So, in this case, on the consumer side, it is always the budget. Let's say, if somebody in the daily wear side wants to enjoy their anniversary by having a chain, a gold chain or a gold earring or whatsoever, or somebody wants to celebrate on their wedding day with their beautiful gold necklace. I think budget will be a constraint. So, tomorrow, if you want to buy a gold, you will not see just grammage, right? You will also see your budget. Let's say 2 years back, a 10-gram gold chain will be of INR 50,000. Now it is of INR 1 lakh and your budget has a limitation to INR 75,000. How much you can increase your budget. So, again, it is linked. It is not just purely tonnage. It is not purely -- it is a value. Yes, you might have gold chain and you want to just exchange it and that might help you gaining the same amount of grammage. But again, as an industry, as a consumer, you have 2 perspective, how much gold you have saved versus how much budget you have.

Okay, sir. Agreed, agreed. So, just to confirming -- hello?

Yes, Raj.

Yes. Sir, just to confirm things, currently, we have INR 292 crores of inventory, and it is of only B2B and B2C vertical as job work business doesn't require upfront investment. And this INR 292 crores is valued on current prices. Am I right?

So, you are right only in the part that it is allocated into B2C and B2B. But B2B also constitutes about job work. Job work does require an upfront investment because our inventory holding days, which we receive from corporates are limited, and it is not sustainable to produce only from that inventory. The wastages and everything that we have in place are from our inventory, plus whenever you manufacture, let's say, giving you a clear example. We have an order of 100 grams of gold, right, a gold ornament. Now to make that gold ornament, we need 125, 135, 140 grams of gold, depending on the complexity. Now, to get an output of 100 grams, as a job worker if we receive only 100 grams, it is irrelevant. We need to deploy our additional 35%, 40% or 30% whatsoever, depending on the order complexity. So, we are invested in gold in job work segment itself. And that is one of the reason that gold is considered as a base gold on our factory levels. And that does not have a churning effect as much. But it surely helps in a better bottom line because job work income, we save most of our job work income.

Okay. My last question is, in coming 2, 3 years, what do you think will be the major part of our revenue, job work B2B or B2C? Like, if you can give me the percentage, like what will be the job work, what will be the B2B and what will be the B2C as we are also expanding the retail sales?

See, again, retail sales are more a linkage to a geographical market that we have. Let's say, for an example, Ahmedabad market, the capacity of the store of Ahmedabad market is, let's say, INR 500 crores, just an approximate. Now let's say, a Surat store maybe of INR 400 crores or a Rajkot store maybe of INR 300 crores. So, these are the pockets in terms of rupees. When you have a facility, that facility is not in terms of rupees, that is in terms of kg. So as of today, let's say I have to take it 2 years back, my Ahmedabad store was still INR 400 crores to INR 500 crores for -- as a capacity store. But as of today, my capacity for 2 tonnes is INR 2,000 crores. So, the installation of capacity is on the basis of volume and the installation of retail as a unit is on the basis of rupees as a geographical capacity to generate sales in that particular spread of area. So we will grow like, okay, we are into an expansion phase with Surat and Rajkot coming up stores. But surely, if there is any -- job work is a very high sustainable business that we are looking forward. You can still -- what you can look forward for 2 to 3 years is, can RBZ produce its own design, sell its own design to a retail unit and have a better bottom line in place. And if we are able to develop that kind of a model, it is a win-win situation. B2B is, again, a fundamental good business that we have. Job work is great. We have a partnership in place, which is wonderful, and we are focused on that also to make it better.

Sir, so sorry, my mistake, if not in terms of value, if in terms of volume, like currently, we have 2,000 tonnes. So in 2, 3 years, how much will be job work or how much will be B2B and how much will be B2C? If you can bifurcate in terms of volume?

Raj, I won't be able to completely justify your answers because of volatility of gold prices are very much innate in nature. So, just I can say that B2B volume versus B2C volume in the future will be 50%, 50% on a volume front.

Okay. And then last one, my suggestion is now if -- you are having an IR agency, so a presentation or a press release where you can bifurcate your business along the 3 verticals and with margins of each, like kgs of gold sold in each vertical will be very helpful. This is one suggestion. Thank you.

Raj, we understand and we'll get back to you for this thing.

The next question comes from the line of Palash Kawale from Nuvama Wealth Management.

So, congratulations on good set of results and doing better than what you had guided for the full year. Sir, my first question is, sorry if -- really many apologies if I'm [ repeating ], I joined the call little late. Sir, what was the total volume that you did for FY '25?

It is approximately 1,315 kgs plus.

Okay. And could you give the segment -wise breakup of the volumes?

I think job book volume has remained stable. Other than that, both the figures, we'll have to check it.

Okay. Okay. And any new customers that you have added or you are planning to add in this financial year on B2B side?

We already have customers in place. We'll be doing penetration among those customers. We are happy to add any new customers if the market has -- there's already players which are planning to expand more -- on more number of stores. So we are happy to be a partner in their growth.

Okay. Okay. And sir, again, on that inventory side, do you see any further scope of reducing the inventory days on your balance sheet? Or like is it the comfortable number that you are seeing right now?

So, Palash, efficiency will be a part and parcel and it's going to be a continuous process. So yes, inventory size on a TTM basis should always improve. Nonetheless, when there are new showrooms coming up, there would be a pushing of inventory. There would be a lot of learnings that will be there. But again, see, what you're talking about is on a macro level it's efficiency. So we are bound to give that as a company.

Okay. Okay. And sir, when are these new showrooms getting operationalized?

One will be in the Q3 of this financial year and other one will be in the Q1 of the next financial year. That is what the plans are.

Okay. Okay. And what is the CapEx -- total CapEx for these 2 stores?

We are primarily looking for a lease model, but let's see if there is any plans for the CapEx, we'll surely let investors know about it.

Okay. Okay. And sir, going forward, do you plan to be a B2B focused or more focus would be on retail expansion side? And -- like what is your thinking, your personal thinking? If you would shed any light on that, it would be really helpful investors?

So, at a current level, company is a B2B manufacturing company. We have gotten very thick -- a very nice skill when it comes to manufacturing. We are also having a nice -- we're having a successful retail store. So, as of now, we are wanting to, the focus will remain in the couple of years for both the segments. And I think as far as we are able to generate the right kind of ROE, ROI, ROCE, we do not see any harm in this kind of a model that we are in. But yes, the growth in terms of store is going to happen in this fiscal and the next fiscal year in retail for an expansion plan. But on a B2B level, people will look at volumes and for that, the installed capacity of factory is already in place.

So, what is your utilization on B2B side right now?

B2B side, I think volume utilization will be high as job work is contributing a lot in B2B.

Okay, okay. And sir, any guidance for next 2 years?

I think INR 700 crores and INR 44 crores to INR 45 crores of PAT. What I have been primarily saying, we'll be sticking on to that. See, it is a volatile market and I would rather have a conservative opinion.

And sir, like what is your average grammage on B2B side?

What do you mean by average grammage? Did not get you clearly.

Like, I wanted to know if you are into very high grammage products. The reason for the question was since the gold prices are increasing, is there any effect on your volume because of that or is there nothing like that?

So, we are into -- as a category, the culture or the psychographics of Indian consumers is not on the basis of grammage. Now, it goes on to segment. First, is it a daily wear segment or it's an occasion wear segment? I mean, let's say, an occasion wear segment, the ticket size of a particular good might be 25 grams. In daily wear, it is 5 grams. But you cannot wear a daily wear product into an occasion, right? So, let's say, if you are having a wedding, so you not want to have a 5-gram product and go in your -- like go in place. That won't look right. So what is happening on a psychographics is that a 25-gram occasion wear product is now getting made at 20 grams. And we are able to happily satisfy the customer. A daily wear demand is something that a person after their weddings go and buy in their anniversary or XYZ. That demand we are seeing that, okay, sometimes because of volatility, there is a denial in that demand. Aspiration still remains, but denial can be a place for a year or so or for a few months in which there are anniversaries or birthdays or occasions that are coming up other than weddings and all. So, we are an occasion player, occasion jewelry player. We are seeing that the demand is quite stable. We are seeing that a lot of weddings in India are coming up in this financial year also. As what we understand, we see a continuous constant demand. There is a confusion because of volatility of gold in the mind of consumers. Confusion still cannot deny the demand. It can literally just postpone because there is an occasion -- it's an occasion-linked demand. So, on a safe side, as a company, we are privileged to be.

The next question comes from the line of Aniket Agarwal from Value Cap Investment.

First of all, congratulations on a very good set of numbers. So, sir, my question is a little bit related to what the previous participants have asked. I was just checking our balance sheet and I was looking at our inventory days and the inventory days are somewhere between 250 to 300 days from the last few years. And these numbers are quite high when I compare you to the other B2B or B2C players. So, don't you think this high inventory base is a risk if, let's say, gold prices go down by 20%, 30%.

So, I think, Aniket, the inventory days, we have a 2x turn in terms of inventory. I think, first, let us get the objectives correct. I think 255 or 300 days that you're quoting is the last financial year numbers. That financial year number also, I have the reasoning. We have had an IPO on December 27 of last financial year, and we had pumped up the inventory for Akshaya Tritiya, which generated into sales in the next quarter itself. So, just because of that one part, you saw very big surge in terms of inventory. If you check the past 5 years numbers in terms of inventory days, you will get an inventory days of approximately 180 or so kind of days, and we are still on that numbers. We have around 2x in terms of inventory. But why we have 2x is also because there is a big base metal which is parked for job work. And yes, so your second question, if there is a decrease in gold prices, how much of a concern it is? If there's a decrease in gold prices, our book value of gold is still lesser than the current market price. We are watching it. Once it comes to at brim or somewhere closer, we will want to hedge it.

Hedge it. You would have probably hedge it. So sir, what is the inventory days for FY '25?

I'm sorry?

What are the inventory days for FY '25 closing?

Inventory days you can [indiscernible]. Yes, last year, it was INR 224 crores, and right now, it is INR 290 crores-odd.

No, no. Sir, I'm asking about the inventory days. I'm not asking about the inventory value. What I can see is, this inventory number of days is -- I think you have ended at 250 days.

No, I don't think so, it is 250 days. You have not calculated the average value of an inventory. So it is 229 plus 292 divided by 2 into -- then the revenue divided by number of average inventory and then it will get you.

So, going forward, you will maintain around 180 and 200 days is what you are saying?

180 days will be a right kind of inventory days.

Okay. And sir, my second question is, a couple of quarters ago, you said that you are not looking for store expansion and that you are more focused on the B2B side. So I would like to know what is it that changed internally that you are now more focused on B2C rather than B2B?

So, see, on the B2B side, we have a tonnage demand. Like, let's say that on a B2B, we have had a 2-tonne factory, right? So the base rate was INR 50,000 of gold at that point of time. So if you calculate, if I'm utilizing my complete capacity, we will do a turnover of INR 1,000 crores, let's say, in B2B segment for the capacity that we have. Now rates have doubled. That means the rate has already gone to INR 1 lakh. Now we still have a 2-tonne factory. So that means we have already gotten INR 2,000 crores of capacity in place, okay. Now, we have got sufficient capacity in B2B. Now when you talk about B2C, B2C runs on -- in rupee terms. So let's say, Ahmedabad showroom is, let's say, INR 500 crores showroom. We are already expecting that by next year, it should be around INR 400 crores, we'll be touching. So it is bound that we have a spread of around 1 or 2 couple of showrooms just to get that [indiscernible] in place. We are not going anywhere out of B2B market. We are just playing a very rational game in this case. But yes, there is a -- if you consider store expansion and there is aggression; yes, we are aggressive. If you consider the capacity which is there, but the rates have increased. So we have doubled the capacity in terms of rupees.

Okay. And sir, if I look at, you have INR 2,000 crores of what I would say capacity and you have achieved, I think [ 1,350 kg ] this year on the B2B side, if I'm right.

Yes, correct.

Okay. So what I'm asking is, especially on the B2B side only. What will be your growth rate in terms of volume on the B2B side for the next 2, 3 years?

Gold has escalated 31%. We really need to -- it is too primary for us to tell you what will be the volume demand. Certainly, I don't -- I expect the volume to be on the B2B side to grow, but it will be on a single-digit side. So let us say, we should be able to grow by around 7% to 8% by volumes in terms of B2B side. And I think, yes, not -- see, 31% escalation or 30% escalation of price, still this comment cannot be taken as a concrete one because what happens next quarter, we don't know, volatility is just too much. So, I would want to answer your question, but still not having a definite answer.

Okay, sir. No issues. Only -- my only thing is that I want to further ask is, let's say, if the demand comes more from the B2B side, are you ready to capture on it?

We have capacity in place. Why not?

Okay. Let's say, instead of 7% or 8%, you see more demand of 12%, 15%, 20% in terms of volume.

So if the -- but we already have 2-tonne capacity in place. The modelling question should be that will -- how much the volume can go up? We already very much are in a situation where we can satisfy B2B demand at an upmost side. The infrastructure is also there in place. So, no questions about it.

The next question comes from the line of Akash Jha from AJ Life.

So, just 1 question from my side. So, your PAT guidance of -- I mean, you have given a PAT guidance for FY '26 of INR 45 crores. I mean it seems quite low because it is just 15%, 16% growth compared to FY '25. And I mean, in terms of revenue, you have given a guidance of 30%, 32% growth. So, any particular reason for this, sir?

So Akash, see, this year, quarter 4, the Akshaya Tritiya demand has come in advance. That is in the month of March we have seen a lot of delivery that has happened on a job work side, okay? So if you need to understand, I had already given a guidance of INR 35 crores to INR 36 crores as a complete year profit or a quarter 4 profit of INR 5 crores to INR 6 crores or so. Now in quarter 1, last year, we had a great demand in place. Now this year, because we have already received an advanced demand, there will be slight -- a slowdown in terms of volumes. And that is the reason that from INR 35 crores, if you see, we would going -- we will be going up to INR 44 crores, INR 45 crores turnover. But we have already achieved INR 38 crores. That is why on a Y-on-Y basis, you will be calculating that, okay, the demand is -- here and there, it is coming up to 16%, 17%, 18% growth. But on a company side, from the date of IPO, we were at INR 22 crore profit. In a 2- year time, we are doubling the balance sheet, INR 100 crores by equity or INR 150 crores by equity, INR 100 crores by debt, and then we are going up to INR 45 crores of profit. On a right track, and this is already what I have guided in my previous quarter's earnings call as well as in my IPO speech also. So, sticking on to that and let us be conservative on that, let us defeat or beat the numbers. Guidance there is actually a sort of promise from a management side. And we want to be very genuine about it. We are wanting to do as much as we can, but INR 44 crores, INR 45 crores is what seems likely.

The next question comes from the line of Palash Kawale from Nuvama Wealth Management.

Sir, my only question was, does your job work inventory also comes from your balance sheet?

No, it does not come from the balance sheet. Job work inventory are not calculated. This is only grown inventory.

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from the line of [ Bhavesh John ], an individual investor.

Sir, in terms of 3 to 5 years perspective, what would be our aims? If you can elaborate?

So, as a company, we would be wanting to see a continuous growth. At a 3-year pace, we would be wanting that there should be stronger demand. We should be going up the top line of more than INR 1,000 crores. And on a 5-year plan, it's too long to comment, but a consistent 25% of sales and top line growth should remain with a bottom-line approach to follow on the same lines, 20% bottom line should get up year-on-year. And we are steadily -- we are on that strategy. So, if you calculate on a 5-year basis, you'll get your numbers.

And sir, as we grow, should our margins be in line with what we are doing today?

So, the structure and the business model that we are preparing, the margins and -- the margins should be in line. If there is any business model change or something, we should be -- there will be a very concrete intimation. But as of now, there is nothing like that. Certainly, when there is growth and in what ways the growth is coming, should be noticed. But as of now, yes, we see that the margins will be -- will remain same.

Yes. And since we have a very ambitious plan, when is the time when you look to raise more equity to grow? Maybe as you already said that maybe in next 2 years, you don't want, but then at some point, we would require some equity. So what is management's perspective?

So equity -- see, right now, the first aim is to fuel the growth as much as we can by debt. And then once we have a right kind of infrastructure and stuff in place for the robust next jump, we assure you that equities -- getting money and raising funds are part and parcel of operations. And once we are done with raising debt, and we think that this is the right time to raise equity, yes, surely, we'll tap in.

Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for the closing remarks.

Yes. So, we have had a year as promised. And certainly, it has been the fourth earnings call. And the whole -- it will be an honest story or it will be honest communication from my side that you can expect on the coming quarters as well. The company is in the clear path of growth. We are certainly wanting to build up an infrastructure which is robust and stable, which can fuel growth on a consistent basis. Happy to have you all as listeners, and let us hope for a wonderful year ahead. Thank you.

Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of RBZ Jewellers, that concludes this conference. You may now disconnect your lines.