Recruit Holdings Co., Ltd. (6098) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Thank you for joining Recruit Holdings' ESG fireside chat with Ayano Senaha and Jun Arai. This call is a simultaneous translation of the original call in Japanese. Sena will first give an overview on our progress made during FY 2021 for our ESG goals, which is the third pillar of our mid- to long-term corporate strategy. Next, we will begin the fireside chat with Jun Arai, our Corporate Executive Officer in charge of the Corporate Planning divisions. The fireside chat will start by answering the questions received in advance. Then we will move on to answering questions received during this event. If you're attending the live stream, please send your questions through the chat at any time. Those participating from the telephone line will have time to raise questions in the latter half of the session. Please note that we are recording today's session. Projected materials can be obtained from our website. Next, let me begin. Let's begin the event with Sena's presentation.

Thank you very much for your attendance today. I am Sena, Ayano Senaha, COO and Director of the Board of Recruit Holdings. Thank you for joining us today. We reported on the progress of the first year of the Prosper Together, our ESG initiatives which we added to the pillars of our management strategy last year. At our recent full year financial results today, I would like to go a little further to answer your questions. Let me share with you what is actually going on, the progress we've made so far. Thank you very much. So first, a look back and what we have announced as our commitment. I'd like to start with the story that I emphasize every time I have a chance because this is so important. Delivering social value has been a part of our DNA since the foundation of the company in 1960. 2021, last year, as we were building our new management team, we decided to take a step further to do more for our future. With Recruit Group growing to become a global HR matching business leader, we felt strongly that we must use our increasing influence and capabilities to achieve a greater social impact and, along with that, the numerical target. So first, our social impact goal is to shorten the time it takes to get hired by half by fiscal year 2030. So why is this so important? It may sound surprising to you, but according to OECD research, even in the developed country, nearly 40% of people could fall into poverty if they do not have an income for 3 months. So what we do as a job is one of the most important facets of life for many people. So if it takes time looking for job, impacting their life, this has to be minimized. And therefore, speed matters when it comes to getting a job to reduce the number of people in need. We want to greatly shorten the job search duration as one of our ESG commitments. So in 2021, we worked to better define job search duration on Indeed. We did the measurement. Based on the data of those who got their job on Indeed, while it varies between individuals, we've found that currently, it takes about 15 weeks until most job seekers get hired. So this shows the distribution of the job search duration of Indeed users who received an offer. The median is about 3 weeks, and the mean was about 7 weeks. But we found that it takes approximately 15 weeks until 90%, which indicates almost everyone except for the statistical outlier, gets hired. So this is the data from Indeed. Apart from that, we also conducted a survey, a global labor force survey conducted across 30 countries. Nearly half of the respondents reported that their job search duration was longer than the amount of time that they could cover their personal expenses without income. Based on this result, we reconfirmed that reducing the time it gets to -- gets hired is something we should focus on to make meaningful difference. That being the case, by setting 15 weeks as our baseline job search period, we aim to support all job seekers, including those in difficult situation by cutting the time to get hired by half. On the other hand, job seekers from underrepresented or vulnerable groups face barriers when searching for a job, but these barriers are difficult to remove through improving the matching efficiency alone. This is why we are also committed to helping 30 million job seekers facing barriers get hired. Assisting job seekers with criminal records, which are introduced during the earnings call, is one of many barriers that need to be addressed. Going forward, we will continue to identify and break barriers to promote inclusive hiring with our technology and partnerships. Next theme is gender parity. We've also set goals for ourselves. As you may know, we are an information service company, and our people are the greatest assets we have. What we deliver is based on the ideas and also genuine passions that arise from our diverse employee base. Even in the engineering process, diversity is very important. In fact, in the process of engineering, we have to have both individual strength and diversity as a group. Our value comes from within. So leveraging our people capital is the source of new products and services. That's the very mechanism of how the company survives through the times. For us, diversity has been the theme at the very heart of the company since its foundation. As a global company, we set many diversity themes by each region or business. But as the entire group, we aim to achieve gender parity at all levels. And in fiscal year 2021, which is the first year of the initiative, we have made much progress for this goal. For example, the number of women in senior management positions, consisting of CEOs of our major subsidiaries and executives of each SBU, increased from 10% to 21%. Also, since it was approved in the Annual General Shareholders Meeting, women in the boardroom account for 27%, which is up from 20% since last year. Moving forward, it will become ever more challenging to move the needle towards parity, but we will continue to drive forward with our 3-year target developed by each SBU. Our fifth and final sustainability goal focuses on climate action. In addition to the 10-year goal, we expect to have achieved our short-term goal of reaching carbon neutrality across our own business activities in fiscal year 2021, as planned previously. We say we expect because we are going to go through a certification process with a third party. But we are confident that we will be able to achieve our goal for FY 2021. And in order to achieve our 2030 goal of carbon neutrality throughout the value chain, we will work towards this goal by setting GHG emission reduction targets in line with the international framework, which aims to limit the increase in global average temperature to 1.5 degrees Celsius above preindustrial levels. And this is a piece of new information, which was not available at the time of the earnings call. But in the beginning of June, we also expressed our commitment to SBTi, and we have completed signing. This was frequently asked by the investors, and I'm happy to announce that we have signed SBTi. Last but not least, the 3-year target focused on climate action and gender diversity will bear incentive goals effective fiscal year 2022, which is this year, for the company's executives who lead actions in each of its ESG themes. I often receive questions asking whether we can really achieve such ambitious goals. Honestly speaking, these are very lofty goals, and it won't be easy. However, I'm convinced that because it is a tough goal that is valuable to the society, our people are motivated to challenge even further. From a long-term point of view, we would like to connect this to our business growth while contributing to the society. And these are all very challenging, ambitious goals, and it is likely that we will face many challenges, but we look forward to sharing the journey with you, which is another meaning of this Prosper Together initiative. That is why I look forward to responding, addressing your questions as much as possible. That is all from my side.

Thank you, Sena-san. So now we will begin the dialogue with Jun Arai to first answer the questions received in advance. Jun will take the lead from here.

This is Jun. Pleased meet you all. We received many questions beforehand. So let's start with this core question. So as you mentioned just earlier, in May of last year, ESG was incorporated as the third pillar of our corporate strategy. So what was the history? What led you to take this action? Could you explain this point?

The year 2020 was a symbolic year. Personally speaking, right when I was taking the role as a Board member, HR matching market -- the leader in HR match market had been always our objective, and this is still the case. But from looking from the sun or the moon, which player's #1 in this market does not mean much, I thought. Rather, this expanding influence, how we utilize this influence to something good, that is far more important, I thought. And that gives me more power and motivation to move forward. And another point, CEO changed to Deko, and so this was a change to new management. So what we need to focus and dedicate ourselves up for was considered very thoroughly. Then came COVID, and we tried to match the job seekers with jobs. That is the business we are engaged in. But many people lost jobs, and those who are already in the difficult situation were hit first. So I thought of many things. What is the significance of our business? And how we can exert the impact to the society? This all happened at the same time. So having impact on the society, this will lead to our growth in the long run, I thought. And so rather quickly, we talked about this many times in the boardroom, and at the time the new management started, we announced this. So that was the history, the first trigger until we announced it.

So you said something that gives me power and motivated. Is this still the case? Are you still motivated?

Well, yes, I have ups and downs. I'm a human being. But today, I'm fully motivated with all of you.

I see. Now let me move on to the next question. This is a question that we've received from a lot of people actually. So you explained how you would like to aim to shorten the time to get hired by half and make it significantly faster. And this year, you have identified the baseline, which is 15 weeks. And maybe it is easy on the table, but how -- can you elaborate on the how of shortening the time to get hired by half?

Thank you for a very good question. So we concluded the baseline of 15 weeks as the job search duration. And we spent -- allocated so much effort in order to reach that conclusion. In Indeed, get closer to the hired has been the initiative that's been going on. Starting from a job aggregation website, we now have applying function and other functionalities getting job seekers closer to the job. And we are calling this a hired signal. On the platform of Indeed, we have the technology and have evolved the technology to capture the digital sign that tells us that the job seeker has found a job. And initially, that was not visible at all, but that has become visible very much in the past 4 or 5 years. But the challenging part is, when does it start? When did that individuals start his or her job seeking activity? We cannot interview each one of them. So we want to have a scientific method. Well, for example, I have a younger sister. And it is almost her hobby, what she enjoys, to look at Indeed to see what kind of jobs are available and compare her job with the jobs available in the market in terms of salary. So it is difficult -- very difficult to define when she started her job seeking activity. But in my case, I think I will start by uploading my résumé and registering that with the platform. So it varies between job seekers when the job seeking activity started. In order to identify that starting point, we worked with data scientists and product members in order to discuss what is the most appropriate method. And we found one answer. And that has taken us to this baseline of 15 weeks as a result. Then how are we going to shorten it? I think that's the question. Well, you're talking about shortening it to 7 weeks, right? That's less than 2 months. Finding a good job in less than 2 months, that is pretty ambitious, I believe. Yes. So that's what we've been considering. Well, of course, because we have set this goal, we are going to accomplish it. With job seeking activities, behaviors vary between job seekers. So where is it that the job seekers are allocating the largest amount of time -- the longest amount of time? And perhaps that itself is not problematic for the job seeker. So we need to know if that part taking the longest time is really bringing stress to the job seeker. And if it -- that is the case, we need to shorten that duration. So that is the kind of analysis we are going to deepen going forward, and that is what we've been discussing with the Indeed team. So we have 9 more years. So using data, it was very critical that we can identify the starting and the finishing point. So we are finally arriving at the starting point of our journey. That is all we can share with you as of today.

Okay. Moving on to the next question. Okay, this one. So while the investment market placing social impact as the main evaluation point is not that large yet, I think. So we've been asked how setting social impact goals contribute to our sustainable growth. From the investors' point of view, it's not just doing something good. How is this positively impacting the business?

Thank you very much. So it's very simple. So if you could imagine together, if you can get jobs -- find jobs twice as fast than now -- we're saying we're doing this in 10 years. If you can find job twice as fast, you will definitely use that service, right? So if we have a chance to become -- we can become the only one rather than #1. And so social impact, we believe, leads to our business growth. And otherwise, it's not meaningful. So that is why this target is right in the middle of our business. We're doing what we have always been doing. It's not aside from the core business. So this is what we are focusing on uncompromisingly. So we have to become a service where people want to use. And that is why we are focusing on this point. We want you to look at ESG and sustainability efforts, initiatives of other companies, the disclosure of other companies, social impact. Such clear numerical target in time line, in Japan or APAC or world, it's not done by many companies. Very few companies do this. Focusing so much on S, social, with clear time line is very rare. So if you could compare many companies, you will see, this is something that we have focused on. We made sure that this social impact will be right at the core so that we'll become grow -- it will grow our business. We'll -- confidence, not so sure. But yes, I'm motivated.

Then let's move on to the next question about the other goal of social impact. As we were discussing earlier, supporting 30 million job seekers who face barriers in finding a job. So what do you mean by supporting through technology? And doesn't that lead to elevating the barriers? And in fiscal year 2021, how did you perform in terms of numbers? So these are the questions related to supporting job seekers facing barriers.

Thank you for the questions. So during the earnings call and in the presentation deck, we featured criminal records. And I think this is the background of the questions, but there are diverse barriers. And we have already decided to address various barriers. So first question was, how are we going to use technology to support them? So we have only been disclosing mostly about our partnership efforts. So I think it could be difficult for the audience to imagine what we can do. So for instance, in the U.S., a university diploma requirement, can it be a barrier for some people? For example, bachelor's degree -- the percentage of people who have bachelor's degree varies between countries, and that itself is a limitation to job seekers. For instance, well, let's say there is a job looking for staffs in warehouses or customer support centers. And after the COVID shutdowns, they have been facing a shortage of laborers. But do you really need a bachelor's degree to become a staff of those warehouses or support centers? That is an important question. Maybe that is a question that our sales reps can discuss with our clients. That itself is important. But on top of that, if I were the hiring manager, let's say, we're looking for a staff to work in our customer support center, and we've submitted the job description, and we've received applications. And on the screen, let's say that we have checked university diploma. But if we unchecked them, unchecked that item, if I was shown that the recruitment cost can be brought down this much because there could be 3,500 more job seekers who would apply for this job, then Sena, as a hiring manager, who's facing a serious shortage of workforce, I think I would ask myself, do we really need university diploma? That is something we would like to do. So face-to-face education or awareness raising is important. But from an economic rationality viewpoint, we want to make sure that these issues are solved. This is good for the hiring manager Sena as well, not only being good for the society. Now someone told you that it's not important to have a bachelor's degree. Maybe hiring managers would realize that it is not a true requirement. So we want to look at the economic rationality of our clients, and we want to show that through our platform. So that is something we are hoping to do, economic rationality.

I see. Yes. Well, otherwise, the new methodology is going to take root. Yes, it has to make sense. So moving to the next question. So next, about internal matters. So it's been a year since we strengthened our ESG initiatives. Do you feel the company is changing? How are the employees responding? There are many members involved in this. But as the person taking the initiative, how do you feel, Sena?

So this was a pure surprise. In May 2021, we announced this. And employees shared this in many -- so many parts and said that they are proud of belonging to a company that does this. I hoped for that, but I did not expect all that. So I was very happy to see the response. And there were engineers who retired, left Indeed, other engineers where we work together to reduce the job search duration to have. And the engineer identified with that mission and came back in the U.S., joined the company again. So I am so encouraged by that. It's -- not everything is easy. I sometimes wonder if I can really do this. And there are various challenges. And sometimes, I get worried at night.

Really?

Yes, of course, I think everyone is the same. But I get encouragements, and we do roundtable, off-the-record dialogue with employees and myself. And we talked about this matter and received individual comments. The employees are energized. And with that, it's coming back to us, too. We are also being motivated and energized. This was a happy surprise. So gender parity, we are aiming for parity in 10 years, but we want to have a breakdown milestone in 3 years. The leader, the person taking the initiative is not important. The people who are doing the job, they have to have the sense of involvement, sense of belonging and awareness. So the CEO of the business units, we discussed so many things and tried to identify what we really need to do and how we need to address them. So these discussions took place and made the decision. So I'm proud of this year 1. There are areas we have not launched yet, but the direction and what we need to do, first of all, in the first 3 years towards the 10-year goal, the employees are energized, and they are motivated. And they all have a sense of awareness, and so this is great.

Yes, that's great. But the -- from the shareholders and investors, they cannot take a peep -- peek in our company. So what's going on inside and the entire initiative and the outcome? How much -- how good is this? How much progress have we made? We tend to insist or appeal what we are doing, but they may wonder, maybe it's just words. So they may wonder how they should interpret this or understand this. Of course, they can't compare as there's no comparison. So that's why it's difficult. And if we become one and only, it will become even more difficult to compare. But for our audience today, how good, how successful are we so far? How can we explain this?

As you rightly mentioned, ESG, E -- rule for E was set first. But we set S first because that is linked the most to our business growth. That's why we are committed to S. In Japan, in APAC, in global, there are very few companies. And therefore, it's that much more difficult to understand.

You're right.

One easy example is in the past year, ESG rating, the investors are probably taking a look at this. MSCI, A -- we were upgraded from A to AA. In Sustainalytics, this is a risk side measurement and scoring. We were -- we improved from 14 to 11. The lower, the better, so yes, so we're steadily improving by lowering the number. And I'm sure the audience understand this. And ISS, this is governance-related rating, we are now ranked as the highest rank. And what else? The environment -- CDP, C to A-. We jumped up in 1 year. We've worked to improve this rating, but we had this big jump in the past 1 year. So this is an evaluation -- proof that they see us as something different. We're making a change. And in the 3-year time span, GPIF index, there are 4 indices. We are enrolled in all 4 indices. Companies that are enrolled in all 4 indices are -- account for only 2.5% of the listed companies. So this is a grand slam, some people say. So we are one of the companies in this 2.5%. So for the foundation, for the safe investment, these are some of the indicators. So this easy-to-understand, quantitative evaluation is important on one hand, but that is not the only purpose we're doing this. This needs to lead to business growth and sales and profit growth and everyone to be or feel happy. We need to take time. But in the short term, we are also looking at these improvements in the rating. Thank you. Does this answer your question?

So once we look at the numbers, it is easier to understand for the audience. And the members who are involved in the job will get motivated. Then moving on to the next question. So you've said the goal of raising the ratio of women to 50% at all employee levels, which is ambitious, as you said. And this has received considerable media coverage, and we've received questions related to the theme. You mentioned that you have identified the fundamental issues generating the gender gap. But how are you planning to solve them? In particular, how do you plan to resolve them in Japan, where the issue is more deep-seated? And what kind of financial impact do you think DE&I will promote or bring to your company?

Thank you for the question. This gender issue has been discussed all over the world for a long time, and we're almost tired of it. But we have not been able to achieve gender parity yet. And personally speaking, I never liked this gender issue, but we want to be the last generation discussing this issue. So that is why we have included this in our goals. So I think we have received questions from different viewpoints. But first of all, the rate of women in the senior management positions, that is the highest layer. So it has improved from 10% to 21% in 1 year. And let me share what we've been doing. For example, in Indeed, inclusive interview rules is how we call them, but above certain layer, those -- when those positions are open and when we decide to hire someone from outside, we source candidates for that position while considering women and candidates from the underrepresented groups. And unless we have a candidate list -- a diverse candidate list, we will not be able to begin the interview process. So we make sure that there's fairness in the candidate list. And maybe you think, "That doesn't sound very difficult. That sounds quite easy to achieve." Well, when we look at Indeed's performance in the previous fiscal year, it grew significantly in the post-COVID era. But when we think of it together with the context of our clients, our hiring manager clients are looking for workforce who's available tomorrow or the day after. But when they're told that we cannot begin the interview process because the candidate list is not diverse, that can be a challenge. Yes, I can imagine hiring managers saying, "Please, please ignore the inclusive interview rule and find someone to work for us." But because of this effort, we were able to improve the rate from 10% to 21% in the senior management positions. And what was surprising to me was that we almost have exactly the same experience in the Staffing SBU. We were looking for someone to become the CEO of one of our major subsidiaries. And in the Staffing SBU, they looked for candidates and proposed the list to Rob, who is the head of the SBU. But Rob said that it is not a diverse candidate list. Do we have fairness? So he pushed back, and he said, "I'm going to wait until I get a more fair candidate list." And then a more diverse candidate pool was created. And as a result, we hired the most suitable candidate, which happened to be a woman. So that is one example of efforts made in the field despite the conflict in terms of the time schedule. So that is another element that contributed to improving the rate of women in the management positions. So when it comes to Japan, well, actually today in the morning newspaper, it was featured that in Recruit, we have started discussing promotion of women since many years ago. And we are much more advanced compared to other Japanese peers, especially in the Media & Solutions SBU. So it's challenging to become more drastic. So we decided to identify the more fundamental issues to be more drastic. So as it was covered in the morning article, when we appoint people to the management positions, we have certain criteria, but that criteria may contain unconscious bias and tacit knowledge that is leading to unfairness. For example, one of the criteria is, are you willing to be transferred to another geographical location if the company tells you to do so? And that can be difficult because of family reasons or your own personal reason. So that is one example of the unconscious bias that we need to consider deeper. And such tacit knowledge is based on the success -- experience of Recruit in the past that such candidates were successful and high-performing. But the business has evolved, and how we offer value to the society has evolved as well. So we believe that we can make changes by revisiting those criteria. So based on that hypothesis, we have changed some criteria in one small pilot to hire a person for a certain position. And that was successful. And that was the story featured in this morning's newspaper article. So there is no sanctuary. We are revisiting such criteria as well in order to make changes also in Japan.

So maybe this is a secret of the company that the company hesitates to share with other people. But are you willing to share these kind of stories with the stakeholders, shareholders, investors?

Of course, we are not a manufacturer. So our business model favors fresh ideas -- diverse ideas. The diversity of idea is the most important thing for our business. It is not only about gender diversity. We need to be diverse in order to come up with diverse ideas. And there's various types of diversity in terms of age, sexual orientation, races, ethnicity. But when we think about men and women, they should be 50:50 on this planet. And if we cannot achieve gender parity, we will not be able to promote other diversity scores. That is going to be even more difficult. So we will be happy to share these kind of stories with someone from outside the company. Well, there are 2 points. One is there is a winning pattern -- successful pattern within the company that, in many cases, will bring us high performance, high financial results. But that has been changing, and our diversity has been -- I suppose diversity has been becoming a more serious topic that needs to be addressed across the board. And the other point is Japan is 120th -- or we have even deteriorated to 121st in the ranking of gender gap index. When we hear 121st in the ranking, that is even shocking. Well, this is a ranking among all the countries in the world. So Japan ranks 121st. But when we look at the education level of men and women, we are ranked as one of the top countries. So we do have equal learning opportunities for men and women. But as soon as they go out into the society and start working, the situation changes. So that's regrettable. If we make a change, if we make some changes, I think we can improve the situation significantly. That is why I would like to share these kind of stories and know-hows, this commodity with everyone in the society.

So Arai-san, I think we should start taking questions from the participants on the call line and the chat. So we will now take the questions from the call and from the chat. [Operator Instructions] So maybe we will take a question from the chat first.

Yes. So let's start from the one on chat first. Okay, let's do this one. This is a question regarding climate-related actions. Why we are aiming for carbon neutrality rather than net zero? And how we should think about our relationship with partners who are not necessarily willing to take climate-related actions? So if you could elaborate, please.

Thank you. So yes, I think this question is that it's carbon neutrality rather than net zero. After reducing these greenhouse gases, the remainder will be offset. So we will combine those 2 to achieve carbon neutrality. And then there's net zero. So I think that is the question. So the CO2 emissions through our own operation compared to manufacturers is very unique. About 90% of our CO2 emission is Scope 3, from the value chain, including our partners. So if we are to do this thoroughly, we have to engage our partners. This was the key point. So as the intent of this question, the partners who are not very forward-looking. One extreme example is some companies are discontinuing the business with such partners and say -- tell the suppliers, "If you do not take these green activities, you cannot stay as our supplier base." Some companies are saying that. So I think the question is, what about us? We have not gotten that far, discontinue business because of this reason. We've not done that in the past because 95% of the CO2 emission is from partners. So we don't want to give up on this dialogue. So why we think this is important? And why don't we do this together? Can we do this? Can we do that? I think that is our responsibility to do this. Cutting the partner is easier. It's simpler. But we want to take more responsibility. So that is my response to the question. With COVID, our engagement with the suppliers had been online, virtual. But now COVID is subsiding, so we want to engage partners and have engagement more offline this year.

[Operator Instructions]

Now first, we would like to address questions on the chat. So the next question is related to data security. So many participants are interested in our approach to data security and privacy, which are the foundation of our business activities and of high concern as a risk. Since you're also a leader of risk management, can you please elaborate on our approach on data security and privacy?

Thank you. This is a really good question. In the entire group, we have identified the top risk, and data security and privacy have been identified as the top risk of our group. And it is so critical that if they're not managed properly, it could undermine the value of our business. Yes, in the securities report, the risk chapter featured these 2 elements. So for example, in each SBU, the volume of data stored with each SBU and the national and local laws and regulations vary between SBUs. So the level, the degree of confidentiality, the volume of data need to be considered in order to implement proper risk management measures. So the governance is done by the SBUs. But as the holding company, we also have a task force for these top risks in order to communicate with the SBUs to ensure if their risk management level is satisfactory. And we also have the audit and monitoring by the Risk Management Committee.

I think we have made much progress in this area over the past few years. There are laws and regulations, which are different between regions, and they are evolving constantly.

Exactly. So geopolitical situation is also something we need to be mindful of. And we need to continue to discuss how to comply with different regulations. So we need to have a mid- to long-term point of view, not only the short-term countermeasures. So I think we need to be sensitive to the mid- to long-term development as well.

So we have a question from the phone. Sano-san from JPMorgan.

So one question from what you said earlier. You talked about female ratio, representation. We have male and female, 50:50, so we have to achieve parity here. That hit my heart. So you are leading in Japan, and you have Indeed on a global basis. So as a service -- by having this as a service accelerating -- so some tips to increase the female representation. Are you doing this as a service to encourage that, to accelerate that?

So Mori-san? Sorry. I'm sorry. I made a mistake. Mori-san, thank you.

So it's about female ratio, a very important point. So as a service, do you offer this service? Or will you offer the service?

We don't want to say, "Limit the hiring to women." We don't want to do that. So that is not the point. For example, what is very well accepted and the potential -- a very influential platform is in Glassdoor, CEO rating is offered. So how to look at other companies. Diversity indices exist. So the tips -- rather than the tips to increase female ratio, it's better to have a higher transparency on the platform so that the companies that are working hard in this area can grow. In terms of utilizing influence, I think that's more powerful. So job seekers look for companies, so including that as an indices when job seekers find jobs. So we're doing that, centering on Glassdoor. And in Staffing, in Australia, one client in Australia had this objective. And so they asked us for help. So there are many other examples. So in order to exert the impact, how to utilize the influence on the platform is the key, I think.

Thank you. Now we'd like to go back to the question from the chat. [Operator Instructions]. So on the chat, from Tokio Marine Asset Management, [ Asano-san ] has addressed a question. So [ Asano-san ] thinks -- highly praises the human capital of Recruit. And out of the many indices of ISO, what do you think is the most important compliance on productivity? What do you think is the most important index of ISO?

Thank you. I like this kind of technical question. It's very exciting. So I think I also feel a pressure to discuss more specific matters. So I would like you to understand this is my personal response, not as a company but as a personal response. But leadership and corporate culture are the most important indices for us. I think I should be answering all of them, but I think leadership and corporate culture are the 2 most important indices. These 2 are the most difficult to become genuine in short period of time. Well, for other indices, there are control levers, which is correctable in a shorter period of time. But leadership and corporate culture are the areas that takes time. And when they are broken, it also takes time to rebuild them. They are the most difficult to be measured. But at the same time, they are the 2 most important impact against growth. In that sense, I think these 2 are the most important.

But on passion is what we always say, but that is a core principle of our company.

Yes, that is what we would like to leverage in order to continue winning. It is not something to look up on the wall, but we want to have that rooted in the company as a process and structure and system. So it's not about having a corporate culture or not. But it's about having it in our day-to-day life -- or our day-to-day life, we need to be the corporate culture.

I'd like to go back to the call line. So [ Tankai-san ] of Nikkei newspaper, please.

This is [ Tankai ] from Nikkei newspaper. So what I'd like to ask you is 30 million people, job seeker support. So your result -- what was your result in fiscal year 2021? So economic rationality is important and technology development. So what is your progress -- does your progress look like? So 30 million, this is a big number. So what is your progress, your track record, please?

Thank you very much. So in reality, the economic rationality, with the power of technology, we have not made progress there. We are hoping that, that will be the case. And the reason this takes time is we're not doing this just for TESG because that is not long-lasting. Business growth is good for the employer. We have to have all that in place. Otherwise, this cannot last long. So this matching efficiency -- in this discussion of matching efficiency, we can say if we take off this barrier, the candidate pool increases, and the economic rationality feasibility goes up. And there are many others. So we're testing them one by one and see what's effective and what's most meaningful for everyone. So not yet, yet to come. But how should I say? We want to have solid data. We will try and see how it goes and continue this for a very long time. Otherwise, we cannot achieve this 30 million. So this is -- we're in the middle of the activity. So we're doing this, and we're doing this in the next 3 years. We don't have something that specific, not yet, sorry.

So from people outside the company, the service-related companies, our product development is -- so we try and then retract and then try and listen to people's advice. We continue and repeat the cycle. That's what Sena-san just said. It's difficult to understand because we're not a manufacturing company. So we always try little things, try and then stop and try another thing.

So thank you, Sena-san. I regret to tell you that it's about time to close today's session. Well, I think you've already communicated us a lot of message today. But can you please share with us your future prospects and enthusiasm?

Well, there are many companies which make a lot of profit in the world. At the same time, there are smaller NPOs and NGOs who are companies contributing to the society by doing something good. But there are not many organizations that do both even when we look around the world. So there is significant growth. And we also want to be loved and respected. I think we want to achieve that both. And we would never want to become a slow-moving company that is doing good for the society. That's not our vision. So you wanted to hear my enthusiasm. So there was a question asking where we are in the journey. For example, we had a progress in the area of diversity in the past year. Every year, I hope that I will have 1 or 2 exciting stories that I will be able to share with you so that we can move forward in this 10-year journey together with you, all the stakeholders. So I hope there will be 1 or 2 stories that we can be proud of, and we want to share with all of you. Well, of course, we want to have more, but I would say 1 or 2.

Thank you very much. This is the end of our program today. Thank you very much for joining the ESG fireside chat. Thank you. [Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]